Guild Wars 2

I’m working on the HoT Masteries. It’s ‘ok’ at this point. Two of them are level four, the rest are at level 2. Right now I’m pecking away at Nuhoch level 3. I don’t expect to be done any time soon.

While I haven’t done every little questline, it would be nice to get HoT Mastery XP in another map.

I understand the need to keep the primary 4 HoT maps populated for the metas at least in the initial few weeks, but I would strongly suggest that the Devs adjust things so that Dry Top and Silverwaste XP contributes to the HoT Mastery progression at some point. They’re the prequel to HoT anyways, and when I’ve been in them the player population’s dwindled.

There’s plenty of sources for the Tyrian Mastery stuff, just would like a different spot to do stuff after X-number of hours in four maps for Masteries.

Lol no… put HoT mastery experience gain in the two biggest farming maps in all of Tyria… wanting the easy road are we? Lolololololol

I don’t see those two maps as being any more farmable than the HoT maps to be honest. Just adjust some of the event rewards or event frequency to comparable levels in SW/DT if there’s that much of a descrepancy.

p.s. not looking for easy road, looking for a little more variety aside from four maps. I don’t think I expressed any discontent about pacing.

to be fair, all the level 80 maps are farm maps…intentionally so, to some extent.

Come on now… if all the HoT maps were as big a farm as silverwastes and drytop we wouldn’t still be seeing so many lfgs for sw and dt. Those two are unparalleled when it comes to non stop xp karma and loot gain… might as well ask for EoTM to be included as well lol

Dry top and Silverwastes are components of the new Personal Story season, so they should be included.

This coming from someone who hasn’t spent an hour “farming” in either zone.

It would make it overly easy to max your mastery though, so it’s probably better off not being included.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Come on now… if all the HoT maps were as big a farm as silverwastes and drytop we wouldn’t still be seeing so many lfgs for sw and dt. Those two are unparalleled when it comes to non stop xp karma and loot gain… might as well ask for EoTM to be included as well lol

If you are experience farming in these zones, you are doing it wrong.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Lol no… put HoT mastery experience gain in the two biggest farming maps in all of Tyria… wanting the easy road are we? Lolololololol

You seem to be confusing easy and quick. If something is easy to do once, the only difficulty added by making someone do it a thousand times is the difficulty of resisting boredom. Is that really the ‘difficulty’ you want ?

Even if they do this it wouldn’t make it much easier.
Okay do me a favour. Count how much Mastery Points you have and how much you need till the end. Neat huh?

You would still need to do a lot of Gold Adventures just to obtain the mastery points.

I think MP’s are harder than the EXP

lol doing this will empty all the HoT maps

IMO the SW map was a fast xp location primarily due to the fact that everyone was playing on it for lack of other new content at the time. Events were successful because there really weren’t many, the outposts and caravans so it was very focused.

Dry top by contrast has many different smaller events sporadically placed all over the map. But again, I think it was busy because it was the new thing.

Again, i’m not looking for easier. I do a lot of HoT in zerkers… but a change a scenery would be nice.

I like this idea.

do you think devs would wanna vacate all their new hard worked map to have people move over to old stuff?

SilverThorn.5047:

lol doing this will empty all the HoT maps

SilverThorn.5047:

do you think devs would wanna vacate all their new hard worked map to have people move over to old stuff?

I reject your premise.

SilverThorn.5047:

lol doing this will empty all the HoT maps

…or… it could help more people get into them, by allowing them to get the masteries required for mobility through the maps.

At the moment, some people are put off by the perceived difficulty of the creatures, some are put off by the difficulty in getting around. Trying to train the masteries while simultaneously trying to learn to handle the creatures is understandably frustrating.

If you give them the option of training their masteries in an environment with creatures they already know, they can focus on one thing instead of fighting a battle on two fronts, with hopefully happier results and more interest in HOT when they can get in there and concentrate on fighting the new creatures.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

…or… it could help more people get into them, by allowing them to get the masteries required for mobility through the maps.

At the moment, some people are put off by the perceived difficulty of the creatures, some are put off by the difficulty in getting around. Trying to train the masteries while simultaneously trying to learn to handle the creatures is understandably frustrating.

If you give them the option of training their masteries in an environment with creatures they already know, they can focus on one thing instead of fighting a battle on two fronts, with hopefully happier results and more interest in HOT when they can get in there and concentrate on fighting the new creatures.

The issue here is that what we percieve as difficult content is because for long we have been used to the idea of straight up damage builds which are fast changing. On my second day i changed my stats around knowing i wouldn’t survive the jungle as glass. If we look around for better builds for given content rather than be a full squishy zerker the jungle is a piece of cake.

Secondly, the thing that was lacking in the vanilla guildwars2 was that the content was so incredibly easy that everyone pretty much solo’d stuff with little to no communication between players. When you move that form of play to the jungle you are not likely to make it far. I’ve seen silent and annoying SW map chat. In the jungle i find people who run stuff with me and are interested in group play rather than running around solo and getting fed up.

But the actual Mastery Points and additional Hero Points are in the jungle so you still need to do the HoT content all the same. Many drops are still needed from HoT bosses and items collected which require local currency.

SilverThorn.5047:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

…or… it could help more people get into them, by allowing them to get the masteries required for mobility through the maps.

At the moment, some people are put off by the perceived difficulty of the creatures, some are put off by the difficulty in getting around. Trying to train the masteries while simultaneously trying to learn to handle the creatures is understandably frustrating.

If you give them the option of training their masteries in an environment with creatures they already know, they can focus on one thing instead of fighting a battle on two fronts, with hopefully happier results and more interest in HOT when they can get in there and concentrate on fighting the new creatures.

The issue here is that what we percieve as difficult content is because for long we have been used to the idea of straight up damage builds which are fast changing. On my second day i changed my stats around knowing i wouldn’t survive the jungle as glass. If we look around for better builds for given content rather than be a full squishy zerker the jungle is a piece of cake.

Secondly, the thing that was lacking in the vanilla guildwars2 was that the content was so incredibly easy that everyone pretty much solo’d stuff with little to no communication between players. When you move that form of play to the jungle you are not likely to make it far. I’ve seen silent and annoying SW map chat. In the jungle i find people who run stuff with me and are interested in group play rather than running around solo and getting fed up.

Indeed, the jungle requires different builds/techniques and group play. No argument there, and over time any player will discover this for themselves and get better. That is one issue as you’ve noted.

However, that group play is hampered by the masteries, which is a separate issue. People have already reported trying to follow a commander or train and discovering they can’t because they lack some mastery, like gliding. Suddenly, they’re limited not by their own choices or skills, but by a game mechanic. That’s where the frustration occurs. Naturally, people will try to overcome these limitations as quickly as possible so they can get to the content they want to enjoy, which is arguably their choice.

The OP was about applying SW/DT xp to HOT – which makes sense from a story pov and because HOT has so few maps it would give people more options in how to gain HOT masteries, thereby reducing perceived repetition. I argued elsewhere that xp for both HOT and central masteries should be gainable anywhere, based on the fact that I) the training for all masteries is identical; i.e. kill, kill, kill, and ii) it would give people more options in how to train. (And yes, if that means farming the tedious CoF dungeon, that’s their choice. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone but that’s what makes it play as you like.)

On the flip side, I rather like the fact that I can work on Tyria masteries in SW. If they were going to change it at all, it should be to make mastery XP gain universal across all maps, not changing SW and Dry Top to Maguuma XP.

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

SilverThorn.5047:

Zoltar MacRoth.7146:

…or… it could help more people get into them, by allowing them to get the masteries required for mobility through the maps.

At the moment, some people are put off by the perceived difficulty of the creatures, some are put off by the difficulty in getting around. Trying to train the masteries while simultaneously trying to learn to handle the creatures is understandably frustrating.

If you give them the option of training their masteries in an environment with creatures they already know, they can focus on one thing instead of fighting a battle on two fronts, with hopefully happier results and more interest in HOT when they can get in there and concentrate on fighting the new creatures.

The issue here is that what we percieve as difficult content is because for long we have been used to the idea of straight up damage builds which are fast changing. On my second day i changed my stats around knowing i wouldn’t survive the jungle as glass. If we look around for better builds for given content rather than be a full squishy zerker the jungle is a piece of cake.

Secondly, the thing that was lacking in the vanilla guildwars2 was that the content was so incredibly easy that everyone pretty much solo’d stuff with little to no communication between players. When you move that form of play to the jungle you are not likely to make it far. I’ve seen silent and annoying SW map chat. In the jungle i find people who run stuff with me and are interested in group play rather than running around solo and getting fed up.

Indeed, the jungle requires different builds/techniques and group play. No argument there, and over time any player will discover this for themselves and get better. That is one issue as you’ve noted.

However, that group play is hampered by the masteries, which is a separate issue. People have already reported trying to follow a commander or train and discovering they can’t because they lack some mastery, like gliding. Suddenly, they’re limited not by their own choices or skills, but by a game mechanic. That’s where the frustration occurs. Naturally, people will try to overcome these limitations as quickly as possible so they can get to the content they want to enjoy, which is arguably their choice.

The OP was about applying SW/DT xp to HOT – which makes sense from a story pov and because HOT has so few maps it would give people more options in how to gain HOT masteries, thereby reducing perceived repetition. I argued elsewhere that xp for both HOT and central masteries should be gainable anywhere, based on the fact that I) the training for all masteries is identical; i.e. kill, kill, kill, and ii) it would give people more options in how to train. (And yes, if that means farming the tedious CoF dungeon, that’s their choice. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone but that’s what makes it play as you like.)

Those people are making excuses… there are THREE spots which require poison lore. EVERY other place in the jungle is accessible via updrafts and bouncing mushrooms which anyone could auto attack for 5 minutes in VB and get enough xp to get those. People just don’t want to work bc they’ve been bred to be LAZY… I’ve done nothing but spend time in Maguuma since launch and I have gliding done. Nuhoch 4, itzel 3, and exalted 4…. oh and I work 60 hours a week. People need to quit their excuses and get to doing some actual work for once in their gaming lives.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

People need to quit their excuses and get to doing some actual work for once in their gaming lives.

You know what one of my favorite things in the world is: Acting. You know what another of my favorite things in the world is: Writing.

I love these so much that I would do them for free, to a limited degree. In a very limited context, I would pay someone to let me act (e.g. doing a workshop) but only at a low cost and then I’m doing it for the training, not for the performance itself.

Why in Mordremoth’s name would I want to pay someone to let me work in a video game? I love games because they are games. I know, weird, right. When you take the game out of a game, it becomes “meaningless series of tasks that are likely to cause an existential crisis and add no substance to your life.”

Games are not made for work. If they were, they’d be what we call “jobs.” Except they’d be incredibly idiotic jobs because you pay to do them.

Don’t confuse work and challenge. When you bang your head against the wall trying to beat your high score in Tetris, it’s not for the work. It’s for the challenge. Challenge happens to be something that includes work, but if you don’t enjoy the challenge, then all you notice is the work.

That is what you are missing in your “people need to work” attitude. It is likely that you enjoy the work in some way because of the challenge involved. Video games are actually chock full of things that could be considered work, but they are not because they are enjoyable to do.

So what you’re really saying is, “People should have the same experience that I do. An experience of enjoyment from putting in the hours.” Which completely fails to understand that all people are not the same as you.

Labjax.2465:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

People need to quit their excuses and get to doing some actual work for once in their gaming lives.

You know what one of my favorite things in the world is: Acting. You know what another of my favorite things in the world is: Writing.

I love these so much that I would do them for free, to a limited degree. In a very limited context, I would pay someone to let me act (e.g. doing a workshop) but only at a low cost and then I’m doing it for the training, not for the performance itself.

Why in Mordremoth’s name would I want to pay someone to let me work in a video game? I love games because they are games. I know, weird, right. When you take the game out of a game, it becomes “meaningless series of tasks that are likely to cause an existential crisis and add no substance to your life.”

Games are not made for work. If they were, they’d be what we call “jobs.” Except they’d be incredibly idiotic jobs because you pay to do them.

Don’t confuse work and challenge. When you bang your head against the wall trying to beat your high score in Tetris, it’s not for the work. It’s for the challenge. Challenge happens to be something that includes work, but if you don’t enjoy the challenge, then all you notice is the work.

That is what you are missing in your “people need to work” attitude. It is likely that you enjoy the work in some way because of the challenge involved. Video games are actually chock full of things that could be considered work, but they are not because they are enjoyable to do.

So what you’re really saying is, “People should have the same experience that I do. An experience of enjoyment from putting in the hours.” Which completely fails to understand that all people are not the same as you.

Work in the context I used it was obviously a euphamism for challenging and time consuming content…I’m sorry if that wasn’t blatantly and glaringly obvious to you. Hey though on the upside you got to be snarky! Honestly if you view bettering your character, your play skill, and your gaming experience as actual work then perhapps MMOs just aren’t for you…

Also… as I said, for three years everyone has had nauseatingly easy content spoon fed to them. They’ve become accustomed to it. Now god forbid they hit difficulties and hurdles and want to implode over it. Welcome to real MMO gaming. Put your big kid undies on and go out and “work” for things…

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Also… as I said, for three years everyone has had nauseatingly easy content spoon fed to them. They’ve become accustomed to it. Now god forbid they hit difficulties and hurdles and want to implode over it. Welcome to real MMO gaming. Put your big kid undies on and go out and “work” for things…

I guess you missed the part about a game feeling like actual work if the person doesn’t enjoy the challenge. “Big kid undies” type statements make zero sense when you keep that in mind. It is the sort of catchphrase people say when someone can’t handle actual work in real life. It makes no sense in the context of recreation.

You are preaching at people to enjoy things in the way that you enjoy them. It’s sort of like coming to a sports game and telling the fans of the losing team to “get over it and root for the other team.”

No. They obviously want to root for the team they want to root for. That’s where the enjoyment is and they get it when their team wins, not by switching their loyalties when their team is losing. Well right now, in a sense, the “casual” team is losing and you are asking them to come join your side. That’s not the side where their loyalties lie.

Maybe try putting on your big kid undies and get over the fact that people are different.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Work in the context I used it was obviously a euphamism for challenging and time consuming content…I’m sorry if that wasn’t blatantly and glaringly obvious to you. Hey though on the upside you got to be snarky! Honestly if you view bettering your character, your play skill, and your gaming experience as actual work then perhapps MMOs just aren’t for you…

Now who’s being snarky?

And I think they’re right.

[Large edit/snip, because I got snarky too. Sorry.]

Labjax.2465:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Also… as I said, for three years everyone has had nauseatingly easy content spoon fed to them. They’ve become accustomed to it. Now god forbid they hit difficulties and hurdles and want to implode over it. Welcome to real MMO gaming. Put your big kid undies on and go out and “work” for things…

I guess you missed the part about a game feeling like actual work if the person doesn’t enjoy the challenge. “Big kid undies” type statements make zero sense when you keep that in mind. It is the sort of catchphrase people say when someone can’t handle actual work in real life. It makes no sense in the context of recreation.

You are preaching at people to enjoy things in the way that you enjoy them. It’s sort of like coming to a sports game and telling the fans of the losing team to “get over it and root for the other team.”

No. They obviously want to root for the team they want to root for. That’s where the enjoyment is and they get it when their team wins, not by switching their loyalties when their team is losing. Well right now, in a sense, the “casual” team is losing and you are asking them to come join your side. That’s not the side where their loyalties lie.

Maybe try putting on your big kid undies and get over the fact that people are different.

And what is wrong with vanilla gw2 being for casual players? I guess I just don’t get why people believe that great rewards shouldn’t come at a cost…

I like the idea just for the sake of having more options. I’d like it if the game treated the HoT zones and SW/Dry Top as part of the Heart of the Maguuma in terms of masteries and also for dailies if they ever update them.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

And what is wrong with vanilla gw2 being for casual players? I guess I just don’t get why people believe that great rewards shouldn’t come at a cost…

Two things come to mind.

1) The people who actually feel as you describe probably feel that way because they see the rewards as the toys that you play with, rather than seeing the obtaining of those toys as the “play” experience.

2) I’m pretty sure there’s a sizable chunk who complain about the sort of things in this thread, but are fine with things coming at a cost. They just have very particular feelings about what those costs should look like.

I’ll give you an example that pertains to me, one of a setup I like and one that I don’t like:

I like that when leveling in this game, you can play virtually any kind of content to level up. I tend to be an all-or-nothing kind of player and get burned out fast, so being able to switch up content types to avoid burnout is awesome.

I don’t like that when I’m working on Maguuma masteries, I need to do content limited to four maps and I don’t like that when I’m working on Tyria masteries, I need to do pre-HoT content. It puts me in an awkward situation where (keeping in mind the above about burnout) I’ve ended up sort of switching back and forth leveling Maguuma and Tyria masteries, so that I don’t end up burned out on either kind of content.

Hope that makes things more clear.

Dry Top and Silverwastes are Maguuma maps. They may not be considered Magus Falls, but they’re still maps associated with Mordremoth’s story specifically.

Seems like a fair request to me.

Labjax.2465:

Why in Mordremoth’s name would I want to pay someone to let me work in a video game? I love games because they are games. I know, weird, right. When you take the game out of a game, it becomes “meaningless series of tasks that are likely to cause an existential crisis and add no substance to your life.”

Games are not made for work. If they were, they’d be what we call “jobs.” Except they’d be incredibly idiotic jobs because you pay to do them.

If there were a “Best Of” sub-forum, I’d nominate this post for it. Many a white knight fail to grasp this simple premise. Enjoyment is subjective, but if people aren’t enjoying themselves, they have a right to complain (and not be shouted down).

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

And what is wrong with vanilla gw2 being for casual players?

Because people paid for an expansion and so they want to enjoy more than the base game? Is this a real question?

Preserver.8457:

Labjax.2465:

Why in Mordremoth’s name would I want to pay someone to let me work in a video game? I love games because they are games. I know, weird, right. When you take the game out of a game, it becomes “meaningless series of tasks that are likely to cause an existential crisis and add no substance to your life.”

Games are not made for work. If they were, they’d be what we call “jobs.” Except they’d be incredibly idiotic jobs because you pay to do them.

If there were a “Best Of” sub-forum, I’d nominate this post for it. Many a white knight fail to grasp this simple premise. Enjoyment is subjective, but if people aren’t enjoying themselves, they have a right to complain (and not be shouted down).

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

And what is wrong with vanilla gw2 being for casual players?

Because people paid for an expansion and so they want to enjoy more than the base game? Is this a real question?

1) I’m not a white knight… I complain all the time. I’ve been so critical of this game in fact it has lead to me getting multiple forum suspensions… I call it like I see it and I’m honest.

2) HoT is hands down the buggiest most incomplete expansion I’ve ever seen for an MMO… EVER and I’ve played several. You want to complain about that by all means do so as it is extremely justified.

3) Yep… you bought the expansion. You bought it KNOWING IN ADVANCE the systems that would be in place. They spoke in depth about masteries and elites and MANY other things. You have no right to complain about that because one of two things happened. You either made an ill-informed purchase, or, you chose to be ignorant and be surprised. In either case the blame lay with you as the player who made those choices.

4) As I said before, I FIRMLY believe to get the best things in life whether in real life or in a game or in anything you must be willing to work for it. The harder the trials and tribulations the sweeter the rewards. It is only through facing the greatest adverseties in our life will we achieve the greatest things. Why is it that ANYONE should feel like this should not be the case in an expansive MMO? Look at Legendary weapons, the effort it takes to get those. Look at what will be Legendary armor. Look at the current Legendary backpack in fractals. ALL of these things require effort to achieve them.

5) People complaining about not being able ot get around maps because of masteries is just plain sad. End of Story. If you can’t so much as make the effort to get gliding 2 and mushroms 1… you really shouldn’t be playing an MMO, at least not a serious one. You can do like two hours of events and killing in Verdant Brink and get enough to get those and when you do… GUESS WHAT! You no have access to like 99% of HoT content! The other 1% i the THREE areas in ALL of HoT locked behing poison lore. So yeah sorry I have ZERO sympathy for anyone not willing to spend a couple hours to get masteries when they are complaining that not having them is what is ruining the enjoyment of their game… I’m sorry but there is a couple terms for that. LAZY and ENTITLED.

“RAAAAARRRRRR this expansion is garbage because I can’t get around in maps!”

“Ummm you can get everything you need to do what you are complaining you can’t do with just a couple hours of effort”

“RAAAAAAARRRR this expansion is garbage because I’m not given what I want with no effort on my part!”

“Thanks for proving my point”

I wanna buy a fall out 4 and max level in 1 day

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Lol no… put HoT mastery experience gain in the two biggest farming maps in all of Tyria… wanting the easy road are we? Lolololololol

The “easy road”? As if grinding XP for masteries (be it for the HoT ones or those for central Tyria) had anything to do with difficulty.
Masteries are just some artificial time gate, nothing more, nothing less.
So I see nothing wrong in people want them to be finished asap. I’d even appreciate if those lvl up tomes would count towards mastery progress so I’d finally be done with them in a few double-clicks.

The Guild Wars franchise always was about “reach max. level + gear asap, enjoy the game afterwards and progress by getting better”. Vanilla GW2 already softened this up to a certain extend, but at least not too much as long as one considered ascended gear as optional.
Now Masteries are another step away from that philosophy, so I totally understand each and every player who seeks for fast ways to complete them.

I strongly disagree with you OP. Have you even thought this through?
If Anet did this, then there would be a massive outcry of players (and I would be among the first to complain) for purchasing an expansion, featuring the levelling of masteries that would be easily completed by farming these maps, which are not PART OF THE EXPANSION.
If you and other players have problems levelling these xp bars, why don’t you use banners or food or even halloween candies? With these the basic masteries to venture through the jungle and join the commanders for pushing the meta events don’t take that long.
No, no ,no I see all these complaints relating to Hot that I can sum up in one sentence IMO: people are impatient because it is new content and they are even more impatient due to lack of content in the months preceding the expansion
@Solomon, I 100% support what you said in your last post
On the side note, OP, I could agree with your proposition but it is wayyyyyy too soon to do that. In order to do that, the next expansion must be live.

Not going to happen for the same reason Tyria masteries can’t be grinding for in HoT maps.

Before anyone goes bu… but there core masteries there isn’t anything core about a pact related mastery maybe I’m confused but you are the pact commander going to magumma falls on official pact business and yet you can’t level pact mastery in that area? Yet we can grind Pact mastery in maps like Queensdale which have absolutely nothing to do with the pact?

The borders need to come down for the exp caps on masteries I have a job and a life and chose GW2 because it was more casual and gave the player freedom for what they wished to do. Yet these gates are mindless and restrict the very freedoms that drew me to the game in the first place.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

People need to quit their excuses and get to doing some actual work for once in their gaming lives.

‘Work’ in a game, I see.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

2) HoT is hands down the buggiest most incomplete expansion I’ve ever seen for an MMO… EVER and I’ve played several. You want to complain about that by all means do so as it is extremely justified.

I think you need to play other games a bit more. Yes, HoT had some bugs, but every game has bugs. But if you want to see disastrous game releases/expansions, you should see Funcoms AoC releases, or swtor’s balancing fiasco when they released their expansion. Heck, UO had epic, and I mean epic, issues with all their expansions.

GW2 and HoT release was pretty smooth, considering it was on downloaded on the web. Some bugs yes, but they fixed the crashes pretty quick, and I havent had a technical issue preventing me from playing. (design of HoT areas not meeting my tastes is a personal matter for me, not technical).