Guild Wars 2

I was hoping the expansion would bring in more areas like Caledon Forest or Bloodtide Coast, but instead we seem to have yet another Silverwastes/Dry Top area. Factions and Nightfall increased the entire world map of GW1 by 100% each, but these small “Season areas” do nothing exciting for me. I know it’s a beta, but this isn’t giving me hope for what I was expecting out of a huge expansion. It seems more like season three bundled up into what they wanted to call an “expansion”.

This isnt the only map. There will be more they just haven’t said how many.

I also want to point out that while yes, factions and nightfall had a lot of maps, they were not 100% of Prophecies. Factions was actually relatively small compared to Prophecies.

Judging beta as full game again…

There is supposed to be 3 lvls, Canopy, mid section (what was it called) and Roots.
Dunno this one seems more mid section with some extreme heights.

Well I know there will be more maps (I was reading another post that talked about some confusion there), but I’m talking about full maps, not the Dry Top type stuff. What I mean is, Ascalon has six maps, each with a 100% map completion to work towards. Kryta also has six separate areas. Maguuma Jungle has five. And so on throughout the entire world. So with a fully priced expansion I’m expecting the new area to have roughly 5-6 separate explorable areas that I can get to 100% map completion. Maybe even a brand new city to explore as well, as each of the other sections have cities of their own. From what I can tell, even if there are more areas beyond Verdant Brink, there still not the same areas as the rest of the world.

From what has been said so far it looks like we will have an unknown amount of ‘jungle’ type maps of which some will use the biomes mentioned. On top of that there will be different maps (as said in the recent POI) which will likely be Maguuma Wastes maps because the trailers and Dry Top/Silverwastes already hint at this alot. It’s likely some of these maps won’t have as many layers. With that said, the amount of pure ‘world maps’ is still unknown and might remain that way till launch but I am optimistic it will be 5-8, with 5 being more likely. Perhaps the living story will introduce more maps beyond that. Then when you take a look at the new PvP mode, the new WvW map and the guildhalls it does show they have put a ton of work into them so who knows, maybe they will surprise us.

Firstly, we need to temper expectations:
Nightfall and Factions were not expansions. They were standalone Campaigns that could be played alongside the original GW (Later dubbed ’Prophecies) or completely by themselves. Eye of the North was an actual expansion, which opened up far less land but introduced some new mechanics and features tot he game. So, when comparing HoT, it needs to be to that release, no to the campaigns.

Secondly, we have only a few pure level 80 areas:
Cursed Shore, Southsun Cove, Dry Top, and Silver Wastes.
None of these areas have hearts, or behave very much like Bloodtide coast. Instead they chain several events together, focusing on player-invested control of the areas. This is how level 80 zones typically look and work.

That said, to be an effective ‘expansion’ it just needs to have enough content to give players a break from the current game offerings (new dungeons, story modes, and maps to WvW/PvP), add something to the old game modes to refresh them (break bar and Elite Specializations), and all in all be fun.

Nachyochez.9758:

Firstly, we need to temper expectations:
Nightfall and Factions were not expansions. They were standalone Campaigns that could be played alongside the original GW (Later dubbed ’Prophecies) or completely by themselves. Eye of the North was an actual expansion, which opened up far less land but introduced some new mechanics and features tot he game. So, when comparing HoT, it needs to be to that release, no to the campaigns.

Secondly, we have only a few pure level 80 areas:
Cursed Shore, Southsun Cove, Dry Top, and Silver Wastes.
None of these areas have hearts, or behave very much like Bloodtide coast. Instead they chain several events together, focusing on player-invested control of the areas. This is how level 80 zones typically look and work.

That said, to be an effective ‘expansion’ it just needs to have enough content to give players a break from the current game offerings (new dungeons, story modes, and maps to WvW/PvP), add something to the old game modes to refresh them (break bar and Elite Specializations), and all in all be fun.

You bring up a good point about comparing this to Eye of the North rather than Factions and Nightfall. I’ll keep that in mind going forward. I just hope there’s enough PvE for me, because I generally stay away from WvW/PvP and very rarely touch the dungeons.

you realize we are playing 25% of the intro part of verdant brink right?

this map is going to be HUGE.. not to mention the canopy and the underground parts..

Stop comparing the beta to the end product we aren’t seeing every map in the betas how many times do devs need to state this we are seeing 25% of Verdant brink for betas to stop Anet ruining the story.

Heart of Thorns is not an expansion, it is a stand alone by its very nature as will be all upcoming “expansions” to Guild Wars 2.

Whatever version you buy, you will never be required the base game, not for now or in the future.

With this cleared up, expectations should be compared to the price we pay. We are asked to pay the price of a full game for HoT (and probably every boxed addition to GW2), so the game can be compared to what we got in GW2.

Even though I think that we actually got too much with the initial release of GW2, getting significantly less than that will be very unsatisfying.

Only time will tell.

Nachyochez.9758:

Firstly, we need to temper expectations:
Nightfall and Factions were not expansions. They were standalone Campaigns that could be played alongside the original GW (Later dubbed ’Prophecies) or completely by themselves. Eye of the North was an actual expansion, which opened up far less land but introduced some new mechanics and features tot he game. So, when comparing HoT, it needs to be to that release, no to the campaigns.

The price they are asking for HoT is the same as Factions and Nightfall. Eye of the North was $40. The two $50 campaigns also included two character slots each, with all purchases(pre or post release). EotN included one with the pre-order bonus pack.

The usual prices for video games hasn’t shifted any since 2006, so I think we should be comparing based on the asking price. HoT’s price matches up with GW1’s campaigns, so I’m comparing it to those.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Judging beta as full game again…

There is supposed to be 3 lvls, Canopy, mid section (what was it called) and Roots.
Dunno this one seems more mid section with some extreme heights.

If people weren’t being asked to pay for a full game, then they wouldn’t be comparing it to a full game.

ketorin.5923:

you realize we are playing 25% of the intro part of verdant brink right?

this map is going to be HUGE.. not to mention the canopy and the underground parts..

I do realize that. Do you realize that I’m not concerned with the size of Verdant Brink, but rather the fact that it’s not a true “zone” as the rest of the world contains. I want vistas, hero points, 100% map completion, etc. From what I’m seeing Verdant Brink is just like Dry Top, which is not what I was hoping the expansion would be.

Wwefan.4982:

Stop comparing the beta to the end product we aren’t seeing every map in the betas how many times do devs need to state this we are seeing 25% of Verdant brink for betas to stop Anet ruining the story.

People really have a problem with reading posts it seems….I don’t care about the size of Verdant Brink or any other map section. I simply want the sections to be more like the 100% completion zones rather that the simple locations like Dry Top. Also I’m not comparing the beta to the end product, but the beta should give me an idea of what to expect. From what I’m seeing in the beta I no longer expect to get the zones I want.

Chaotic.9760:

Wwefan.4982:

Stop comparing the beta to the end product we aren’t seeing every map in the betas how many times do devs need to state this we are seeing 25% of Verdant brink for betas to stop Anet ruining the story.

People really have a problem with reading posts it seems….I don’t care about the size of Verdant Brink or any other map section. I simply want the sections to be more like the 100% completion zones rather that the simple locations like Dry Top. Also I’m not comparing the beta to the end product, but the beta should give me an idea of what to expect. From what I’m seeing in the beta I no longer expect to get the zones I want.

This is more like Orr in layers then drytop tbh, there are allot of waypoints. There are mastery points to get, allot of events. The only thing there isn’t are hearts, and if you want hearts in lvl 80 maps, noone can help you, cause you would be the only person in the universe.

JayMack.8295:

This isnt the only map. There will be more they just haven’t said how many.

Where did they say there will be more than one map? All I’ve heard is this is one map with three different levels so they keep trying to sell this one map as three when it’s not.

Chaotic.9760:

Wwefan.4982:

Stop comparing the beta to the end product we aren’t seeing every map in the betas how many times do devs need to state this we are seeing 25% of Verdant brink for betas to stop Anet ruining the story.

People really have a problem with reading posts it seems….I don’t care about the size of Verdant Brink or any other map section. I simply want the sections to be more like the 100% completion zones rather that the simple locations like Dry Top. Also I’m not comparing the beta to the end product, but the beta should give me an idea of what to expect. From what I’m seeing in the beta I no longer expect to get the zones I want.

…Your first few posts were about how much other games increased the world map size and how many maps they added, as well as how many maps were in other zones in GW2 and complaining about “small season areas”. If people think you care about map size, it’s because of the things you’ve said in this thread.

Beyond that you’ve talked about wanting maps you can get 100% completion on, while being very nebulous about what exactly it is you want for that. There are points of interest, waypoints, and mastery points that work like skill challenges. I would assume they plan to add vistas, since even Dry Top and Silverwastes have vistas. I’m guessing there will be rewards for getting 100% map completion in the new zone.

If you want renown hearts to work towards, you’re out of luck. The new zones are going to follow the same model as Orr, where instead of hearts you have lots of dynamic events and event chains.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

JayMack.8295:

This isnt the only map. There will be more they just haven’t said how many.

Where did they say there will be more than one map? All I’ve heard is this is one map with three different levels so they keep trying to sell this one map as three when it’s not.

Collin has said that not all HoT maps will have these 3 layers. Hereby confirming more then 1 map

TheFantasticGman.9451:

JayMack.8295:

This isnt the only map. There will be more they just haven’t said how many.

Where did they say there will be more than one map? All I’ve heard is this is one map with three different levels so they keep trying to sell this one map as three when it’s not.

The fact that they’ve over and over again said “In the first map” or “in the other zones”. Colin saying that not all maps will have all 3 layers…etc…etc.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

JayMack.8295:

This isnt the only map. There will be more they just haven’t said how many.

Where did they say there will be more than one map? All I’ve heard is this is one map with three different levels so they keep trying to sell this one map as three when it’s not.

They’ve said that the expansion’s new zone will be smaller than typical MMO expansions, focusing on quality over quantity. Additionally, they’ve said there are three biomes. Finally, Colin mentioned that not all of the jungle maps will feature all three biomes over in a reddit thread. From that you can infer that there must be at least two maps.

glehmann.9586:

Chaotic.9760:

Wwefan.4982:

Stop comparing the beta to the end product we aren’t seeing every map in the betas how many times do devs need to state this we are seeing 25% of Verdant brink for betas to stop Anet ruining the story.

People really have a problem with reading posts it seems….I don’t care about the size of Verdant Brink or any other map section. I simply want the sections to be more like the 100% completion zones rather that the simple locations like Dry Top. Also I’m not comparing the beta to the end product, but the beta should give me an idea of what to expect. From what I’m seeing in the beta I no longer expect to get the zones I want.

…Your first few posts were about how much other games increased the world map size and how many maps they added, as well as how many maps were in other zones in GW2 and complaining about “small season areas”. If people think you care about map size, it’s because of the things you’ve said in this thread.

Beyond that you’ve talked about wanting maps you can get 100% completion on, while being very nebulous about what exactly it is you want for that. There are points of interest, waypoints, and mastery points that work like skill challenges. I would assume they plan to add vistas, since even Dry Top and Silverwastes have vistas. I’m guessing there will be rewards for getting 100% map completion in the new zone.

If you want renown hearts to work towards, you’re out of luck. The new zones are going to follow the same model as Orr, where instead of hearts you have lots of dynamic events and event chains.

I compared to GW1 expansions not because of the size of the map in the beta, but what it seemed to represent, which is small “Dry Top like maps”. I want maps that allow me to get 100% completion because if all I can do is events then I’ll get bored really quick. I don’t play PvP and only go into WvW once in a while and Dungeons/Fractals are not my thing. So when I play GW2 I play it like a single player game and having a goal to work towards (100% map completion of zones) is what I look forward to doing. That’s why I enjoyed Factions and Nightfall so much…they had a ton of new areas for single player people to look forward to doing.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Heart of Thorns is not an expansion, it is a stand alone by its very nature as will be all upcoming “expansions” to Guild Wars 2.

Whatever version you buy, you will never be required the base game, not for now or in the future.

Incorrect. Heart of Thorns does not function without the base game and is not balanced to suit a player without the base game. It doesn’t require you to buy the base game because it is being given for free with it. It is no different than Eye of the North.

With this cleared up, expectations should be compared to the price we pay. We are asked to pay the price of a full game for HoT (and probably every boxed addition to GW2), so the game can be compared to what we got in GW2.

Even though I think that we actually got too much with the initial release of GW2, getting significantly less than that will be very unsatisfying.

Only time will tell.

I highly doubt we’ll get the same volume of maps, even if this was to be considered a full game, “Pact Tyria” has many maps that sorely lack character. Dry top and Silverwastes are small maps, but their designs are rich and I predict we’ll get 4 or 5 full size maps with the same density of love.

Chaotic.9760:

glehmann.9586:

Chaotic.9760:

Wwefan.4982:

Stop comparing the beta to the end product we aren’t seeing every map in the betas how many times do devs need to state this we are seeing 25% of Verdant brink for betas to stop Anet ruining the story.

People really have a problem with reading posts it seems….I don’t care about the size of Verdant Brink or any other map section. I simply want the sections to be more like the 100% completion zones rather that the simple locations like Dry Top. Also I’m not comparing the beta to the end product, but the beta should give me an idea of what to expect. From what I’m seeing in the beta I no longer expect to get the zones I want.

…Your first few posts were about how much other games increased the world map size and how many maps they added, as well as how many maps were in other zones in GW2 and complaining about “small season areas”. If people think you care about map size, it’s because of the things you’ve said in this thread.

Beyond that you’ve talked about wanting maps you can get 100% completion on, while being very nebulous about what exactly it is you want for that. There are points of interest, waypoints, and mastery points that work like skill challenges. I would assume they plan to add vistas, since even Dry Top and Silverwastes have vistas. I’m guessing there will be rewards for getting 100% map completion in the new zone.

If you want renown hearts to work towards, you’re out of luck. The new zones are going to follow the same model as Orr, where instead of hearts you have lots of dynamic events and event chains.

I compared to GW1 expansions not because of the size of the map in the beta, but what it seemed to represent, which is small “Dry Top like maps”. I want maps that allow me to get 100% completion because if all I can do is events then I’ll get bored really quick. I don’t play PvP and only go into WvW once in a while and Dungeons/Fractals are not my thing. So when I play GW2 I play it like a single player game and having a goal to work towards (100% map completion of zones) is what I look forward to doing. That’s why I enjoyed Factions and Nightfall so much…they had a ton of new areas for single player people to look forward to doing.

You should not considder this like factions and nightfall tough, if you want to compare it to anything in GW2 compare it to Eye of the north. This is an expansion, not a standalone. And i see not a single reason why you wouldn’t be able to map complete a map like this. In fact, i’d think maps like these are a good challenge for map completers because of the multiple layers you have to work trough, and different masteries you’ll need to get to places. Again, you need to look at this like Orr, in layers.

But it’s clear that you want hearts to be able to go from one thing to another and complete it ignoring the events, well then you are out of luck. GW2 lvl 80 content just doesn’t work like that.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

JayMack.8295:

This isnt the only map. There will be more they just haven’t said how many.

Where did they say there will be more than one map? All I’ve heard is this is one map with three different levels so they keep trying to sell this one map as three when it’s not.

There’s not been any direction mention any other maps, but there are several occasions where they have made statements implying their existence. However, this doesn’t necessarily mean there will be more maps at launch. I would not be surprised if Verdant Brink was the only map available at launch, with more being promised later.

And I’m not buying this “three layer” hype. The parts of Verdant Brink available in previous stress tests (which I’m guessing is the same area open in this beta) included both canopy and floor biomes, but they weren’t overlapping much. It felt more like a single layer with lots of elevation shifts, than two full distinct layers. The only hope I see for true layers is the roots biome that we haven’t seen yet.

If the claim of this area being 25% is true, that does imply that the roots biome is a rather full layer. Layers aside, the map area available in the tests (based on the world map/datamined maps) looks like 40-50% of Verdant Brink. If the roots biome is a complete layer, that means another 25% is hiding under the beta area. And that the canopy and floor biomes combined are the other 25% of that half of VB. It’s possible that these two biomes have more overlap in other parts of VB, but the fact that they lack it in half of the map does not give me much hope of that being true.

HotHit.6783:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Heart of Thorns is not an expansion, it is a stand alone by its very nature as will be all upcoming “expansions” to Guild Wars 2.

Whatever version you buy, you will never be required the base game, not for now or in the future.

Incorrect. Heart of Thorns does not function without the base game and is not balanced to suit a player without the base game. It doesn’t require you to buy the base game because it is being given for free with it. It is no different than Eye of the North.

With this cleared up, expectations should be compared to the price we pay. We are asked to pay the price of a full game for HoT (and probably every boxed addition to GW2), so the game can be compared to what we got in GW2.

Even though I think that we actually got too much with the initial release of GW2, getting significantly less than that will be very unsatisfying.

Only time will tell.

I highly doubt we’ll get the same volume of maps, even if this was to be considered a full game, “Pact Tyria” has many maps that sorely lack character. Dry top and Silverwastes are small maps, but their designs are rich and I predict we’ll get 4 or 5 full size maps with the same density of love.

You don’t get the base game for free, it is calculated into the price of the package. I can’t buy the expansion, because there is no expansion. I can upgrade my account with what new content HoT has to offer, but in the end, I will just give up on a lot of content I bought with the package.

There is nothing for free when buying HoT, which is a full game and not an expansion.

Dry Top is sort of OK, even though the event density is less than satisfying and variety is meager.
Silverwastes is just the same base copied over the map several times with some flavour events at the end. It is hardly “dense” or innovative. It is entertaining, for some time. Enough action to overlook that there is harldy anything really happening there.

Looks like we are getting more of the “more action less meaning” part in the expansion. They should have gone with the old Orr design where you felt like fighting through a battlefield IMO, not this mindless event grinding we see everywhere nowadays.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

HotHit.6783:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Heart of Thorns is not an expansion, it is a stand alone by its very nature as will be all upcoming “expansions” to Guild Wars 2.

Whatever version you buy, you will never be required the base game, not for now or in the future.

Incorrect. Heart of Thorns does not function without the base game and is not balanced to suit a player without the base game. It doesn’t require you to buy the base game because it is being given for free with it. It is no different than Eye of the North.

With this cleared up, expectations should be compared to the price we pay. We are asked to pay the price of a full game for HoT (and probably every boxed addition to GW2), so the game can be compared to what we got in GW2.

Even though I think that we actually got too much with the initial release of GW2, getting significantly less than that will be very unsatisfying.

Only time will tell.

I highly doubt we’ll get the same volume of maps, even if this was to be considered a full game, “Pact Tyria” has many maps that sorely lack character. Dry top and Silverwastes are small maps, but their designs are rich and I predict we’ll get 4 or 5 full size maps with the same density of love.

You don’t get the base game for free, it is calculated into the price of the package. I can’t buy the expansion, because there is no expansion. I can upgrade my account with what new content HoT has to offer, but in the end, I will just give up on a lot of content I bought with the package.

There is nothing for free when buying HoT, which is a full game and not an expansion.

Dry Top is sort of OK, even though the event density is less than satisfying and variety is meager.
Silverwastes is just the same base copied over the map several times with some flavour events at the end. It is hardly “dense” or innovative. It is entertaining, for some time. Enough action to overlook that there is harldy anything really happening there.

Looks like we are getting more of the “more action less meaning” part in the expansion. They should have gone with the old Orr design where you felt like fighting through a battlefield IMO, not this mindless event grinding we see everywhere nowadays.

Actually the base game is free the expansion its self is £35 or $50 as Anet have stated many times including the base game for FREE allows new players to join GW2 and not have to pay more money to get the expansion.

Wwefan.4982:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

HotHit.6783:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Heart of Thorns is not an expansion, it is a stand alone by its very nature as will be all upcoming “expansions” to Guild Wars 2.

Whatever version you buy, you will never be required the base game, not for now or in the future.

Incorrect. Heart of Thorns does not function without the base game and is not balanced to suit a player without the base game. It doesn’t require you to buy the base game because it is being given for free with it. It is no different than Eye of the North.

With this cleared up, expectations should be compared to the price we pay. We are asked to pay the price of a full game for HoT (and probably every boxed addition to GW2), so the game can be compared to what we got in GW2.

Even though I think that we actually got too much with the initial release of GW2, getting significantly less than that will be very unsatisfying.

Only time will tell.

I highly doubt we’ll get the same volume of maps, even if this was to be considered a full game, “Pact Tyria” has many maps that sorely lack character. Dry top and Silverwastes are small maps, but their designs are rich and I predict we’ll get 4 or 5 full size maps with the same density of love.

You don’t get the base game for free, it is calculated into the price of the package. I can’t buy the expansion, because there is no expansion. I can upgrade my account with what new content HoT has to offer, but in the end, I will just give up on a lot of content I bought with the package.

There is nothing for free when buying HoT, which is a full game and not an expansion.

Dry Top is sort of OK, even though the event density is less than satisfying and variety is meager.
Silverwastes is just the same base copied over the map several times with some flavour events at the end. It is hardly “dense” or innovative. It is entertaining, for some time. Enough action to overlook that there is harldy anything really happening there.

Looks like we are getting more of the “more action less meaning” part in the expansion. They should have gone with the old Orr design where you felt like fighting through a battlefield IMO, not this mindless event grinding we see everywhere nowadays.

Actually the base game is free the expansion its self is £35 or $50 as Anet have stated many times including the base game for FREE allows new players to join GW2 and not have to pay more money to get the expansion.

So where can I get the base game for free?

Or where can I get the expansion without the base game?

It is just semantics by ANet.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Wwefan.4982:

Actually the base game is free the expansion its self is £35 or $50 as Anet have stated many times including the base game for FREE allows new players to join GW2 and not have to pay more money to get the expansion.

So where can I get the base game for free?

Or where can I get the expansion without the base game?

It is just semantics by ANet.

“There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch”

They can call it free all they want, but you can be sure that they have done the math and figured out a minimum value to attach to the base game in bundling it with HoT. Based on previous sales, and the fact that existing players can get a “free” character slot, that seems to be $10. Of course, for any existing player buying HoT after release, they are essentially throwing away $10 and paying $40 for an expansion.

Chaotic.9760:

I was hoping the expansion would bring in more areas like Caledon Forest or Bloodtide Coast, but instead we seem to have yet another Silverwastes/Dry Top area. Factions and Nightfall increased the entire world map of GW1 by 100% each, but these small “Season areas” do nothing exciting for me. I know it’s a beta, but this isn’t giving me hope for what I was expecting out of a huge expansion. It seems more like season three bundled up into what they wanted to call an “expansion”.

Is this the part where I say, “I told you so,” or should I wait until after the expansion’s actual release?

Yes, sadly, a lot of us predicted this very thing. It appears, from your observations, on point . . . but it wasn’t unexpected either. At least, from some of us with a little more insight.

But here’s to hoping otherwise.

I expressed all of these concerns over 4 months ago.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/The-Biggest-Concern-about-HoT/first

The “expansion” we see in the “beta” is literally just the next southsun cove, drytop, silverwastes, etc. map.

Something players would have gotten for free in its entirety a long time ago if anet did not decide to start withholding living story releases in order to bundle them up and sell them as an expansion.

All I can say is…. if anet is damming up all these ls releases, and we don’t get more content (that we would have gotten sooner, more often, and for free through the old system) There is going to be hell to pay.

The whole prepurchase thing is at best a kickstarter to fund the creation of an actual expansion.

Buy whats behind the curtain….. but there literally isn’t anything there yet until enough people buy it….and they have the cash to fund its creation.

So am I correct then in understanding that essentially the format of any new maps (regardless of size, that’s not what I’m asking) will be of the Silver Wastes variety?

spwrbrc.3965:

So am I correct then in understanding that essentially the format of any new maps (regardless of size, that’s not what I’m asking) will be of the Silver Wastes variety?

Something like a mashup of Silverwastes and Dry Top style maps, with ‘normal’ (like the rest of the core game) events included along with it.

spwrbrc.3965:

So am I correct then in understanding that essentially the format of any new maps (regardless of size, that’s not what I’m asking) will be of the Silver Wastes variety?

Yes, more or less. Silverwastes is basically a preview of things to come. ANet has admitted as much in previous interviews.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

spwrbrc.3965:

So am I correct then in understanding that essentially the format of any new maps (regardless of size, that’s not what I’m asking) will be of the Silver Wastes variety?

Yes, more or less. Silverwastes is basically a preview of things to come. ANet has admitted as much in previous interviews.

which for me, is a plus.
the base game maps are prettier aesthetically(this is subjective), but largely dead 90% of the time once you complete the map….there just aren’t enough events to warrant going back outside of dailies.

drytop/SW are always active in terms of events/things to do….they are also more fun to explore (again, this is subjective)as it requires effort)….and incredibly rewarding in loot. more of that pls

Ah, thank you then for all your helpful answers. I wish I’d paid more attention to information as it came out and realized this sooner.

Here’s another way to look at the situation… I can get behind the “Dry Top style” maps from here on out as they do have waypoints, hero points, vista’s, etc, however why then don’t they have 100% completion based on that alone (with no hearts)? If we want to compare them to Orr, then lets look at the three maps in Orr…..all three are missing Hearts, but they still all have a 100% completion bar. Just give me that and I’ll be satisfied enough.

Dry Top and Silverwastes are two of my favorite maps in the game, however you can only do so many variations on a war-zone event chain style map before it gets dull and repetitive. We now have each Orr zone, Dry Top, Silverwastes, and now Verdant Brink filling these roles.

While I enjoy these zones and playstyles, the draw back is that they feel absolutely empty. I mean, Verdant Brink (the part that we can access) has only two Hylek villages by my count, and that is the only civilization in the entire zone. Silverwastes has the forts, Dry top has the one village, but these are all very small scale. I miss the feeling of zones like Queensdale, Fields of Ruin, Gendarren Fields, etc. where you have established towns where more than 10 people can inhabit it.

I’m hoping some of the other maps coming with HoT go back to more of that ‘slice of life’ style, rather than the push-pull tug of war style that all the recent zones have been. Enjoyable gameplay is about controlling that intensity curve, and if every map feels like a warzone then its all going to start blending together.

Chaotic.9760:

Here’s another way to look at the situation… I can get behind the “Dry Top style” maps from here on out as they do have waypoints, hero points, vista’s, etc, however why then don’t they have 100% completion based on that alone (with no hearts)? If we want to compare them to Orr, then lets look at the three maps in Orr…..all three are missing Hearts, but they still all have a 100% completion bar. Just give me that and I’ll be satisfied enough.

And where do you get this info that there wont be completion like that in the jungle? again what we see is a beta, and is supposed 25% of one of the jungle maps, so would be pretty pointless to implement such a thing yet, as you wouldn’t be able to get close to even 100% of one map let alone the whole jungle, and it would likely distract ppl from doing what they actually want us to test

GummiBear.2756:

Chaotic.9760:

Here’s another way to look at the situation… I can get behind the “Dry Top style” maps from here on out as they do have waypoints, hero points, vista’s, etc, however why then don’t they have 100% completion based on that alone (with no hearts)? If we want to compare them to Orr, then lets look at the three maps in Orr…..all three are missing Hearts, but they still all have a 100% completion bar. Just give me that and I’ll be satisfied enough.

And where do you get this info that there wont be completion like that in the jungle? again what we see is a beta, and is supposed 25% of one of the jungle maps, so would be pretty pointless to implement such a thing yet, as you wouldn’t be able to get close to even 100% of one map let alone the whole jungle, and it would likely distract ppl from doing what they actually want us to test

Excluding a 100% completion because it’s not possible in the beta does make sense, I’ll give you that. But honestly all this “It’s just a beta, thus we shouldn’t judge or assume” is getting a bit out of hand. I can do that to a point, but after a while we’re simply defending Anet for no reason other than to blindly defend them.

Again, your point makes logical sense, however all I can do is go based on evidence that I am presented with. I’ve already purchased HoT and plan to enjoy it fully, so I’m not trying to start a mob against Anet here, I’m just concerned that I won’t enjoy it as much as I had hoped if my assumptions are correct. But they’re still just my assumptions, not facts.

Hopefully we will get a lot more than we are seeing in the beta or else I will be kittened I spent so much on the top end version!

Hopefully we get some peaceful, casually playable zones.

If you think they will make junglemaps with all these high and low areas and caves and caverns to explore, and not add exploration, you are loosing it. Of course they will. There’s a whole mastery line right now about being able to read ancient runes and tablets. Were you expecting to go to the “ancient rune and tablet library” for this?

GummiBear.2756:

And where do you get this info that there wont be completion like that in the jungle? again what we see is a beta, and is supposed 25% of one of the jungle maps, so would be pretty pointless to implement such a thing yet, as you wouldn’t be able to get close to even 100% of one map let alone the whole jungle, and it would likely distract ppl from doing what they actually want us to test

Well, none of the other maps they’ve added have counted towards map completion in any way for starters.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

GummiBear.2756:

And where do you get this info that there wont be completion like that in the jungle? again what we see is a beta, and is supposed 25% of one of the jungle maps, so would be pretty pointless to implement such a thing yet, as you wouldn’t be able to get close to even 100% of one map let alone the whole jungle, and it would likely distract ppl from doing what they actually want us to test

Well, none of the other maps they’ve added have counted towards map completion in any way for starters.

Didn’t karka map count towards it?

Btw this isn’t single map release this is an expansion, i would think that would make it at least have it’s own explorer track.

Fox.3469:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

GummiBear.2756:

And where do you get this info that there wont be completion like that in the jungle? again what we see is a beta, and is supposed 25% of one of the jungle maps, so would be pretty pointless to implement such a thing yet, as you wouldn’t be able to get close to even 100% of one map let alone the whole jungle, and it would likely distract ppl from doing what they actually want us to test

Well, none of the other maps they’ve added have counted towards map completion in any way for starters.

Didn’t karka map count towards it?

Btw this isn’t single map release this is an expansion, i would think that would make it at least have it’s own explorer track.

Southsun doesn’t count toward it.

I hope there is an exploration track for HoT areas, but I’m expecting them to be more similar to Silverwastes in the amount of exploration (PoEs/hero challenges/etc) in them.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Heart of Thorns is not an expansion, it is a stand alone by its very nature as will be all upcoming “expansions” to Guild Wars 2.

Whatever version you buy, you will never be required the base game, not for now or in the future.

With this cleared up, expectations should be compared to the price we pay. We are asked to pay the price of a full game for HoT (and probably every boxed addition to GW2), so the game can be compared to what we got in GW2.

Even though I think that we actually got too much with the initial release of GW2, getting significantly less than that will be very unsatisfying.

Only time will tell.

Heart of Throrns is an expansion that happens to come with the base game free. That is to say the content in Heart of Thorns is level 80 content. You can’t load Heart of Thorns and create a Heart of Thorns character. Those characters will start in one of the five already existing starting areas, at level 1.

The bulk of the content of Heart of Thorns is level 80 content. That couldn’t be said for Nightfall or Factions, but it could absolutely be side for Eye of the North.

HoT requires Guild Wars 2 base game to play, even if it’s included. Buying Factions and Nightfall in no way required Propehecies.

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Heart of Thorns is not an expansion, it is a stand alone by its very nature as will be all upcoming “expansions” to Guild Wars 2.

Whatever version you buy, you will never be required the base game, not for now or in the future.

With this cleared up, expectations should be compared to the price we pay. We are asked to pay the price of a full game for HoT (and probably every boxed addition to GW2), so the game can be compared to what we got in GW2.

Even though I think that we actually got too much with the initial release of GW2, getting significantly less than that will be very unsatisfying.

Only time will tell.

Heart of Throrns is an expansion that happens to come with the base game free. That is to say the content in Heart of Thorns is level 80 content. You can’t load Heart of Thorns and create a Heart of Thorns character. Those characters will start in one of the five already existing starting areas, at level 1.

The bulk of the content of Heart of Thorns is level 80 content. That couldn’t be said for Nightfall or Factions, but it could absolutely be side for Eye of the North.

HoT requires Guild Wars 2 base game to play, even if it’s included. Buying Factions and Nightfall in no way required Propehecies.

Eye of the North was labeled an “expansion” as it was no stand alone, you needed at least one of the three versions of Guild Wars to play it.

On the other hand, Heart of Thorns does not require you to already have Guild Wars 2, so there is the difference, it is a stand alone.

Buy Prophecies, you are ready to go!
Buy Factions, you are ready to go!
Buy Nightfall, you are ready to go!
Buy Eye of the North, you are going nowhere unless you own a stand alone!

Buy Guild Wars 2, you are ready to go!
Buy Heart of Thorns, you are ready to go!

If I get the base game for free when purchasing HoT, I really want to get it for free, because I already own a paid copy of GW2, and there is always use for a second account.

But there is no free GW2 account coming with HoT, it only comes as a bundle, so people should stop refering to it as a “free” base game, if most people buying the expansion don’t even get it.

Semantics. Nothing more.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Heart of Thorns is not an expansion, it is a stand alone by its very nature as will be all upcoming “expansions” to Guild Wars 2.

Whatever version you buy, you will never be required the base game, not for now or in the future.

With this cleared up, expectations should be compared to the price we pay. We are asked to pay the price of a full game for HoT (and probably every boxed addition to GW2), so the game can be compared to what we got in GW2.

Even though I think that we actually got too much with the initial release of GW2, getting significantly less than that will be very unsatisfying.

Only time will tell.

Heart of Throrns is an expansion that happens to come with the base game free. That is to say the content in Heart of Thorns is level 80 content. You can’t load Heart of Thorns and create a Heart of Thorns character. Those characters will start in one of the five already existing starting areas, at level 1.

The bulk of the content of Heart of Thorns is level 80 content. That couldn’t be said for Nightfall or Factions, but it could absolutely be side for Eye of the North.

HoT requires Guild Wars 2 base game to play, even if it’s included. Buying Factions and Nightfall in no way required Propehecies.

Eye of the North was labeled an “expansion” as it was no stand alone, you needed at least one of the three versions of Guild Wars to play it.

On the other hand, Heart of Thorns does not require you to already have Guild Wars 2, so there is the difference, it is a stand alone.

Buy Prophecies, you are ready to go!
Buy Factions, you are ready to go!
Buy Nightfall, you are ready to go!
Buy Eye of the North, you are going nowhere unless you own a stand alone!

Buy Guild Wars 2, you are ready to go!
Buy Heart of Thorns, you are ready to go!

If I get the base game for free when purchasing HoT, I really want to get it for free, because I already own a paid copy of GW2, and there is always use for a second account.

But there is no free GW2 account coming with HoT, it only comes as a bundle, so people should stop refering to it as a “free” base game, if most people buying the expansion don’t even get it.

Semantics. Nothing more.

HoT is an expansion, you get the base game when you buy HoT.
If you create a new account, you’ll get the base game and HoT.
If you apply it to an already existing account, and if it’s a pre-purchase, you’ll get another character slot, or a refund (correct me if I’m wrong), depending on when you registered your account.
You get the character slot/refund to make it up for the core game you bought with the expansion.
You will only get one code, which is the expansion plus the core game.

You need the core game to play HoT, which makes it an expansion, not a stand alone.

As other people have said the difference between a stand-alone campaign and an expansion isn’t what you need to buy but the format of the content.

If you bought Factions you didn’t get Prophecies included, but you also didn’t need it because you could create a new level 1 character and level up entirely in Cantha without ever needing to go to Tyria.

You can’t do that in Heart of Thorns. All the new maps will be level 80 and if you want to make a revenant you’ll have to level them up in the Base game maps first.

It was the same with Ultima Online, which come to think of it used the same format for selling the expansion. I bought the first expansion, which came with the Base game included but I couldn’t choose to start in the new zones and if I tried to go straight there I’d die. I had to play the Base game first, so it made sense for them to be bundled together.

I can’t think of other games that have done separate stand-alone campaigns that aren’t sequels or expansions, so maybe that’s the confusing thing. Other than Creatures Adventures and I doubt many people have heard of that.

HoT is a unique beast when it comes to comparing it to other expansions or stand-alones. It’s really neither. It’s more of a replacement/updated version of GW2.

It’s hard to label it along with other expansions, because you can’t purchase it as one. And, aside from going through third party retailers that still have old stock, you can’t buy just GW2 anymore.

Calling GW2 a “free core game” along with an expansion is nothing but marketing spiel. You’re buying both as a forced bundle that would be cheaper without the core game attached. Anet/NC clearly does not value the core game at $0. If they did, they would have no problem giving existing players buying HoT a core game key for an alt acccount/friend.