Guild Wars 2

Thaddeus.4891:

Cdoto.4920:

Grats on consistently taking down the guild bounties every week with 5 peeps. (Wiki says 2 commendations a week, but that’s neither my personal experience nor my point.).

You only need to find and kill 1 guy to get commendation. You don’t need to win it all. Since tier 1 and 3 cost the same you can always spawn the 6 bounties and go after the easiest. A piece of cake to get the 2 commendation from bounties with 5 peoples. You can also do the Guild Rush for 1 commendation. That you can do by yourself. Again you receive the reward by getting to the end once. No need to finish it. So yes unless you are in a new guild that can’t unlock bounties and rush it’s easy to get 3 commendation per week with guild missions.

Cdoto.4920:

So assuming your numbers are correct (they look about right, though a consistent 30-45 mins seems a little optimistic for a round of fractals if you’re not aggressively kicking new peeps),

Fractal level 1 is pretty easy. Ok. If you are alone you can have some longer time with pugs, but it’s not a fractal 50. You just need3 half decent player and the remaining players in the party can just sit down and eat chips.

Cdoto.4920:

in just under three months you can get what you need to be able to grind fractals for the gear you need to start grinding high end fractals for more ascended gear, and likely very little else (scale 1 fractal drops not being great).

If you really don’t like the experience of fractals in general, that seems like a spectacularly bad deal. “Congratulations! After nearly three months of constantly doing that thing you don’t like, you’re now allowed to do that thing you don’t like HARDER!”

Wait what?? Ok first of all it take 3 months if you only log in everyday and do ZERO fractal. Zero fractal for someone who don’t like fractal seem pretty good deal. I was just saying that if someone want they can decrease this 3 months by doing some small fractal, the easiest one. And after that 3 months you have everything. What do you need to grind after that? Let,s be clear. My post was about TRINKETS and Laurels. What are you talking about.

Cdoto.4920:

Also, remember, come HoT the top isn’t going to be 50 anymore… assumptions about where this grind train ends are going to need to be revised.

The only ascended pieces remaining to get is underwater head piece. What grind for ascended you are talking about now. Another grind for another subject? So I was talking about ascended trinket and you quote me saying oh ya but what about all ascended gear even if you didn’t talk about that. And now you are quoting me about fractal weapons?? Or Agony Resistance? Or Infused gear? Are we still talking about people that don’t like Fractal, because it doesn’t seem like the kind of stuff someone that dislike fractal would like to grind.

Cdoto.4920:

That timetable is also assuming you’re doing just that for at least an hour a day for around two months, bare minimum. Does that actually sound like fun to anyone? That IS what we’re all here for, right? Fun?

Well on a timescale of 3 months that would take you around 30sec per day. Log in, click twice, log out. For two months you would need only to do guild missions so 4 times in that 2 months you would need to take 1.5 hour to do guild missions (which is fun IMO) and then for the rest of the 2 months it still take you 30sec per day. Not exactly the same as you said. Or you can do 8 times 30min guild missions if it’s only rush and bounty.

If you want to do it in 1 month. It take 4 times to do guild missions, 1.5 hour each time. Then you would need to between 10 and 20 low level fractal (depend on rings drop and dailies). So if you want to do it in 1 months we could say that worst case scenario it will take you 1 hours per day.

Cdoto.4920:

The default answer to this, which I’ve gotten several times in this thread already, is, “Well, you clearly don’t like this game, then. Go play something else.” The fact is, I do want to play Guild Wars 2. If Heart of Thorns becomes a game I can’t play, eventually I might take your advice, but what I really want to play is the game they’ve been pitching and selling for several years now. That game ISN’T anywhere else. I’m posting because I’m concerned that I might be watching that awesome, unique game bury itself in other games’ toxic refuse in an attempt to chase the “hardcore”. I’ve watched it happen before, and I really don’t want to see it happen here.

I’ve been accused of speaking out of fear. That is correct. It is not, however, speaking out of ignorance, but rather bitter experience. I fear I might lose my favourite game to the same bunch of bullies that ruined my last several favourite games.

In the end, trinkets and Weapons are the only thing worth talking about and they are really easy to get. And actually, there is really fun way to acquire them. I’ve got a lot of casual players in my guild and I love to help them. Most of them think that a lot of the stuff is really hard to get, but once I help them and give them all the little trick, they find out that it’s not that hard after all.

I don’t have a full ascended set on any character. I have bits and pieces spread out over 8 characters. I’ve played since launch. I play a lot, enough that my family and girlfriend feel the need to complain. Maybe to some forum posters here, that doesn’t qualify as a lot, but to gamers who also have a life outside of tyria, will HoT have content available for us?

Derenek.8931:

…will HoT have content available for us?

The first raid boss doesn’t even come out for a month after HoT launches, so I hope there’s something other than raids in the expansion .

Baldrick.8967:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Cdoto.4920:

lorddarkflare.9186:

I think it is extremely disingenuous to label Fractals as simply ‘gear-gated’. Not to mention that Raids actually have a much less stringent gate than Fractals.

Even on the current system, you can get pretty far with fractals in just ascended trinkets.

And it is not like crafting Ascended Armor is dark magic.

What would make it a more honest description in your opinion?

Are you disputing the claim that a certain grade of gear is a functional requirement to complete this content? That would be odd, given that you go on to say that one can “get pretty far” if you already have some of the gear behind which it is gated. So… you can get part-way through the gated content when you’ve partially overcome the gate.

Ascended trickets are not difficult to get. In fact, most ascended trinkets are notoriously easy to get. You can get a full set with just normal play.

The actual hard gate only comes into play after you have placed agony infusions in all those slots.

My challenge stems from the implication that fractals are virtually unapproachable unless you are fully decked out in ascended. That is what calling it ‘gear-gated’ suggests and that is clearly not true.

Ascended trinkets aren’t easy to get in ‘normal’ play. My normal play doesn’t include fractals, and I think I might have dropped maybe 9 ascended pieces in 3 years of playing.

Maybe if you could progress in fractals by doing one at a time it would be something that interests me, but gimmick mechanics, jumping, dodge roll or instant death etc aren’t really my cup of tea.

Uh, laurels?

-55 a month for logging in

If you do NOTHING but log in you can get enough laurels to buy a full set of trinkets in exactly 3 months.

If you play normally and do not waste your gold, you should have enough cash/ecto/materials to get all the trickets and well on your way to getting at least one weapon/backpack in this period of time.

And this is starting out on a new account and assuming something like 1 -2 rare drops a day.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Baldrick.8967:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Cdoto.4920:

lorddarkflare.9186:

I think it is extremely disingenuous to label Fractals as simply ‘gear-gated’. Not to mention that Raids actually have a much less stringent gate than Fractals.

Even on the current system, you can get pretty far with fractals in just ascended trinkets.

And it is not like crafting Ascended Armor is dark magic.

What would make it a more honest description in your opinion?

Are you disputing the claim that a certain grade of gear is a functional requirement to complete this content? That would be odd, given that you go on to say that one can “get pretty far” if you already have some of the gear behind which it is gated. So… you can get part-way through the gated content when you’ve partially overcome the gate.

Ascended trickets are not difficult to get. In fact, most ascended trinkets are notoriously easy to get. You can get a full set with just normal play.

The actual hard gate only comes into play after you have placed agony infusions in all those slots.

My challenge stems from the implication that fractals are virtually unapproachable unless you are fully decked out in ascended. That is what calling it ‘gear-gated’ suggests and that is clearly not true.

Ascended trinkets aren’t easy to get in ‘normal’ play. My normal play doesn’t include fractals, and I think I might have dropped maybe 9 ascended pieces in 3 years of playing.

Maybe if you could progress in fractals by doing one at a time it would be something that interests me, but gimmick mechanics, jumping, dodge roll or instant death etc aren’t really my cup of tea.

Uh, laurels?

-55 a month for logging in

If you do NOTHING but log in you can get enough laurels to buy a full set of trinkets in exactly 3 months.

If you play normally and do not waste your gold, you should have enough cash/ecto/materials to get all the trickets and well on your way to getting at least one weapon/backpack in this period of time.

And this is starting out on a new account and assuming something like 1 -2 rare drops a day.

GW is a game and not a job.

Derenek.8931:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Baldrick.8967:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Cdoto.4920:

lorddarkflare.9186:

I think it is extremely disingenuous to label Fractals as simply ‘gear-gated’. Not to mention that Raids actually have a much less stringent gate than Fractals.

Even on the current system, you can get pretty far with fractals in just ascended trinkets.

And it is not like crafting Ascended Armor is dark magic.

What would make it a more honest description in your opinion?

Are you disputing the claim that a certain grade of gear is a functional requirement to complete this content? That would be odd, given that you go on to say that one can “get pretty far” if you already have some of the gear behind which it is gated. So… you can get part-way through the gated content when you’ve partially overcome the gate.

Ascended trickets are not difficult to get. In fact, most ascended trinkets are notoriously easy to get. You can get a full set with just normal play.

The actual hard gate only comes into play after you have placed agony infusions in all those slots.

My challenge stems from the implication that fractals are virtually unapproachable unless you are fully decked out in ascended. That is what calling it ‘gear-gated’ suggests and that is clearly not true.

Ascended trinkets aren’t easy to get in ‘normal’ play. My normal play doesn’t include fractals, and I think I might have dropped maybe 9 ascended pieces in 3 years of playing.

Maybe if you could progress in fractals by doing one at a time it would be something that interests me, but gimmick mechanics, jumping, dodge roll or instant death etc aren’t really my cup of tea.

Uh, laurels?

-55 a month for logging in

If you do NOTHING but log in you can get enough laurels to buy a full set of trinkets in exactly 3 months.

If you play normally and do not waste your gold, you should have enough cash/ecto/materials to get all the trickets and well on your way to getting at least one weapon/backpack in this period of time.

And this is starting out on a new account and assuming something like 1 -2 rare drops a day.

GW is a game and not a job.

Seems like you think you are making a point. You are not.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Derenek.8931:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Baldrick.8967:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Cdoto.4920:

lorddarkflare.9186:

I think it is extremely disingenuous to label Fractals as simply ‘gear-gated’. Not to mention that Raids actually have a much less stringent gate than Fractals.

Even on the current system, you can get pretty far with fractals in just ascended trinkets.

And it is not like crafting Ascended Armor is dark magic.

What would make it a more honest description in your opinion?

Are you disputing the claim that a certain grade of gear is a functional requirement to complete this content? That would be odd, given that you go on to say that one can “get pretty far” if you already have some of the gear behind which it is gated. So… you can get part-way through the gated content when you’ve partially overcome the gate.

Ascended trickets are not difficult to get. In fact, most ascended trinkets are notoriously easy to get. You can get a full set with just normal play.

The actual hard gate only comes into play after you have placed agony infusions in all those slots.

My challenge stems from the implication that fractals are virtually unapproachable unless you are fully decked out in ascended. That is what calling it ‘gear-gated’ suggests and that is clearly not true.

Ascended trinkets aren’t easy to get in ‘normal’ play. My normal play doesn’t include fractals, and I think I might have dropped maybe 9 ascended pieces in 3 years of playing.

Maybe if you could progress in fractals by doing one at a time it would be something that interests me, but gimmick mechanics, jumping, dodge roll or instant death etc aren’t really my cup of tea.

Uh, laurels?

-55 a month for logging in

If you do NOTHING but log in you can get enough laurels to buy a full set of trinkets in exactly 3 months.

If you play normally and do not waste your gold, you should have enough cash/ecto/materials to get all the trickets and well on your way to getting at least one weapon/backpack in this period of time.

And this is starting out on a new account and assuming something like 1 -2 rare drops a day.

GW is a game and not a job.

Seems like you think you are making a point. You are not.

lol, you understood what I meant, so point was obviously made. You just disagree.

Derenek.8931:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Baldrick.8967:

lorddarkflare.9186:

Cdoto.4920:

lorddarkflare.9186:

I think it is extremely disingenuous to label Fractals as simply ‘gear-gated’. Not to mention that Raids actually have a much less stringent gate than Fractals.

Even on the current system, you can get pretty far with fractals in just ascended trinkets.

And it is not like crafting Ascended Armor is dark magic.

What would make it a more honest description in your opinion?

Are you disputing the claim that a certain grade of gear is a functional requirement to complete this content? That would be odd, given that you go on to say that one can “get pretty far” if you already have some of the gear behind which it is gated. So… you can get part-way through the gated content when you’ve partially overcome the gate.

Ascended trickets are not difficult to get. In fact, most ascended trinkets are notoriously easy to get. You can get a full set with just normal play.

The actual hard gate only comes into play after you have placed agony infusions in all those slots.

My challenge stems from the implication that fractals are virtually unapproachable unless you are fully decked out in ascended. That is what calling it ‘gear-gated’ suggests and that is clearly not true.

Ascended trinkets aren’t easy to get in ‘normal’ play. My normal play doesn’t include fractals, and I think I might have dropped maybe 9 ascended pieces in 3 years of playing.

Maybe if you could progress in fractals by doing one at a time it would be something that interests me, but gimmick mechanics, jumping, dodge roll or instant death etc aren’t really my cup of tea.

Uh, laurels?

-55 a month for logging in

If you do NOTHING but log in you can get enough laurels to buy a full set of trinkets in exactly 3 months.

If you play normally and do not waste your gold, you should have enough cash/ecto/materials to get all the trickets and well on your way to getting at least one weapon/backpack in this period of time.

And this is starting out on a new account and assuming something like 1 -2 rare drops a day.

GW is a game and not a job.

Sooo playing an MMO few hours a week is a job now. Login rewards confirmed to be a grind.

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

Derenek.8931:

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

Hmm,

Nothing in the game is a REQUIREMENT so are we safe from the grind?

Derenek.8931:

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

This “doing something as a requirement” is called playing the game. If playing the game or pressing 1 button every day is grind and a chore than imagine how terrible raids and high level fractals will be.

Derenek.8931:

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

Dude you can’t be bothered to long in for ~5 seconds past the time it takes to load the map?

I find this incredibly hard to believe and if it is true, maybe you should look into some single player games that will fit into your absurdly tight schedule.

Ashen.2907:

Derenek.8931:

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

Hmm,

Nothing in the game is a REQUIREMENT so are we safe from the grind?

It depends on the accuracy of this statement made about raid content.
https://twitter.com/All_Caulle/status/649239988282875907

If you cant play without certain gear, it becomes a requirement.

If you want to play the expansion, but are required to have a certain tier of gear. However, in order to get that tier you MUST do a certain thing, that also is a requirement.

Substance E.4852:

Derenek.8931:

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

Dude you can’t be bothered to long in for ~5 past the time it takes to load the map?

I find this incredibly hard to believe and if it is true, maybe you should look into some single player games that will fit into your absurdly tight schedule.

If GW2 was a job, I’d agree with you. Jobs are work, and work requires a minimum amount of effort. However it is a game. Games are supposed to be about fun, something about a mandatory daily action somehow doesn’t strike me as being about fun.

Derenek.8931:

Ashen.2907:

Derenek.8931:

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

Hmm,

Nothing in the game is a REQUIREMENT so are we safe from the grind?

It depends on the accuracy of this statement made about raid content.
https://twitter.com/All_Caulle/status/649239988282875907

If you cant play without certain gear, it becomes a requirement.

If you want to play the expansion, but are required to have a certain tier of gear. However, in order to get that tier you MUST do a certain thing, that also is a requirement.

1) By definition if the thing to which you are referring is optional then it is not a requirement.

2) By definition if something is referred to as a, “should,” have rather than a, “must,” have it is not a requirement.

Ashen.2907:

Derenek.8931:

Ashen.2907:

Derenek.8931:

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

Hmm,

Nothing in the game is a REQUIREMENT so are we safe from the grind?

It depends on the accuracy of this statement made about raid content.
https://twitter.com/All_Caulle/status/649239988282875907

If you cant play without certain gear, it becomes a requirement.

If you want to play the expansion, but are required to have a certain tier of gear. However, in order to get that tier you MUST do a certain thing, that also is a requirement.

1) By definition if the thing to which you are referring is optional then it is not a requirement.

2) By definition if something is referred to as a, “should,” have rather than a, “must,” have it is not a requirement.

1) lol, then anything outside of breathing, eating, and drinking water isn’t a requirement.

2) We’ll wait and see if the statement I linked is true or not. If the content can be successfully played using exotic gear, then I’ll be wrong. If it turns out to be excessively difficult, or impossible for regular gamers to complete without ascended gear, then it is a requirement.

Derenek.8931:

Ashen.2907:

Derenek.8931:

Ashen.2907:

Derenek.8931:

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

Hmm,

Nothing in the game is a REQUIREMENT so are we safe from the grind?

It depends on the accuracy of this statement made about raid content.
https://twitter.com/All_Caulle/status/649239988282875907

If you cant play without certain gear, it becomes a requirement.

If you want to play the expansion, but are required to have a certain tier of gear. However, in order to get that tier you MUST do a certain thing, that also is a requirement.

1) By definition if the thing to which you are referring is optional then it is not a requirement.

2) By definition if something is referred to as a, “should,” have rather than a, “must,” have it is not a requirement.

1) lol, then anything outside of breathing, eating, and drinking water isn’t a requirement.

2) We’ll wait and see if the statement I linked is true or not. If the content can be successfully played using exotic gear, then I’ll be wrong. If it turns out to be excessively difficult, or impossible for regular gamers to complete without ascended gear, then it is a requirement.

Sorry, wasn’t trying to go as far as basics of life. Within the context of a game any specific piece of content or gear is optional.

If the linked statement is true then there is no requirement. I should drink white wine with poultry. Doesn’t mean it is a requirement

Depends on the strength of the word should.

The color white should matched with red.

is different than

You don’t have to wear a seatbelt to survive a 60mph collision, but you probably should.

Derenek.8931:

Depends on the strength of the word should.

The color white should matched with red.

is different than

You don’t have to wear a seatbelt to survive a 60mph collision, but you probably should.

Point taken. The elasticity of almost any given word in the English language is a marvel.

Which (white wine with poultry vs surviving a car crash) do you think applies to a video game where we can get ascended trinkets just for logging into the game and where the statistical difference between exotics + ascended trinkets and full ascended is miniscule and where the devs have an established pattern of underestimating player capability?

It depends on the actual result. There are players selling a solo Arah run for gold. However, those players and others like them are not representative of a majority of the customers of Anet and GW2. If a majority of players can complete the event and experience a challenge with exotic gear, then it isn’t a requirement. If they can not, it is one.

Derenek.8931:

It depends on the actual result. There are players selling a solo Arah run for gold. However, those players and others like them are not representative of a majority of the customers of Anet and GW2. If a majority of players can complete the event and experience a challenge with exotic gear, then it isn’t a requirement. If they can not, it is one.

One of two things is happening here:

• You REALLY like to argue with people over just about any topic one can imagine, or;

• You don’t understand the concept of endgame content.

Assuming the latter, this is standard operating procedure for endgame content. It typically helps to have the best gear, because it’s supposed to be the most challenging content.

You see, there are people who play this game – a lot of them, actually – who are here to be challenged. They want difficult content, and are willing to acquire the gear and skills necessary to meet those challenges. For those who don’t care to wait, there’s the option of buying kittenpiles of gold (I’m starting to rather like the employment of the term “kitten” as a minced oath) and speeding up that whole process.

Now, if the ONLY way to get that gear were to be the Gem Store, then yes, I’d agree with you that this game is “pay to win”. However, since all of that stuff can be acquired simply by playing the game, it’s more “pay to be impatient”.

Of course, if your only reason for voicing these concerns is the former – that you just like arguing – then it would be super fantastic if you would simply state so for the benefit of others. Your constant posting on these topics across multiple threads can be misconstrued as the actions of someone who actually gives a kitten about the topic. -Sid

Derenek.8931:

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

So those who play the game less should be rewarded by the game? Sounds genius.

Sidenti.6035:

Derenek.8931:

It depends on the actual result. There are players selling a solo Arah run for gold. However, those players and others like them are not representative of a majority of the customers of Anet and GW2. If a majority of players can complete the event and experience a challenge with exotic gear, then it isn’t a requirement. If they can not, it is one.

One of two things is happening here:

• You REALLY like to argue with people over just about any topic one can imagine, or;

• You don’t understand the concept of endgame content.

Assuming the latter, this is standard operating procedure for endgame content. It typically helps to have the best gear, because it’s supposed to be the most challenging content.

You see, there are people who play this game – a lot of them, actually – who are here to be challenged. They want difficult content, and are willing to acquire the gear and skills necessary to meet those challenges. For those who don’t care to wait, there’s the option of buying kittenpiles of gold (I’m starting to rather like the employment of the term “kitten” as a minced oath) and speeding up that whole process.

Now, if the ONLY way to get that gear were to be the Gem Store, then yes, I’d agree with you that this game is “pay to win”. However, since all of that stuff can be acquired simply by playing the game, it’s more “pay to be impatient”.

Of course, if your only reason for voicing these concerns is the former – that you just like arguing – then it would be super fantastic if you would simply state so for the benefit of others. Your constant posting on these topics across multiple threads can be misconstrued as the actions of someone who actually gives a kitten about the topic. -Sid

I’ve actually played Anet games since the GW1 beta. Bought each one at release an was always greatly impressed by not only their game design, but also by their company’s general principles of always giving a fantastic game for a decent price. Similarly, I pre-purchased both GW2 and HoT.

During that time, I’ve watched the entire industry grow and shrink and change according to the times.

Since the beginning, I was a fan of the company not just their games. Their philosphy of breaking the subscription model was a refreshing and exciting break from sub based games like WoW. When they released GW 1, I was amazed. They made a great and massive game and didn’t charge a fee. When they released their first sequel, I had some trepidation because sequels are rarely good. It also cost the same as GW1. I thought, along with all the pundits and media writers, that they were just trying to capitalize on the success of guild wars. Then they surprised everyone again. Cantha was the basis for an entirely new campaign and a FULL GAME. on an equal or greater scope than the original release. All during the same time, they continued supporting GW1 and we saw lots of interesting additions and enhancements. They didn’t just settle for giving another character class, like other game companies, they went full out and made a product worthy of the price tag. That really cemented my loyalty as a customer. Then time passed and the game lost players as it got older. So Anet announced Nightfall. Even with lagging player numbers, they not only made another full campaign with new character classes, they added in heroes. It was epic. Another big win for customers. They now had a reputation as a company that nt only makes great games, but oe that innovates and gives you a great amount of product for your money.

Then came EotN. From the day of announcement, Anet made clear it was only an expansion. However they were honest enough to tell customers that they knew an expansion with limited gameplay innovations or additions. They even kept up their reputation for respecting their players by pricing it at a lower rate. Not only that they gave us a bunch of new heroes and more character slots. As well as bonus rewards for those who would purchase GW2 when it was finally released.

Now we are in the modern era. The release of GW2 was in line with Anet’s earned reputation. The game is massive and the gameplay is above and beyond any other MMO in release. Black desert may steal their gameplay title next year, but for now it is still the best (I’ve played so many…) but the company just turned 180 degrees after release.

Even with the phenomenal success of sales, Anet instead of beomig more generous, or even maintaining their “You get more than what you pay for” philosophy, made the game a pay to win system. They gave up on the living world stories almost immediately after beginning. Then instead of making them fee, players had to spend around 20 bucks a piece in gems to play them.

Then they announced HoT. After a decade of being a loyal Anet fan and customer imagine my disappointment when they decided to change their philosophy of game design and release. You’d get a partially completed smaller campaign, only one character class, and by the way we’ll charge the same amount a full new game would cost.

Not only that, the idea of skill based gaming, and a game earning its value through the quality and quantity of game they are selling, has completely gone out the window.

Their games didn’t used to be about “oh, you guys have nothing left to do? umm I suppose we can add in some more pointless grinding to do” they used to be about, “You’ll buy this game/expansion, because it is freakin awesome in and of itself”

That means both player groups, hardcore players who had every armor and weapon in the game and did every mission to mind numbing complacency, as well as casual players alike would be excited and get their money’s worth.

I appreciate the need for some end game things to give something for hardcore players, but a hard mode and better AI in addition to an exciting campaign and new gameplay mechanics would be more appropriate than a higher tier of gear that you needed inordinate amounts of grinding to obtain.

Derenek.8931:

Substance E.4852:

Derenek.8931:

doing something as a REQUIREMENT every single day for many months on end…. Hmmm, I suppose for some that isn’t a grind.

Dude you can’t be bothered to long in for ~5 past the time it takes to load the map?

I find this incredibly hard to believe and if it is true, maybe you should look into some single player games that will fit into your absurdly tight schedule.

If GW2 was a job, I’d agree with you. Jobs are work, and work requires a minimum amount of effort. However it is a game. Games are supposed to be about fun, something about a mandatory daily action somehow doesn’t strike me as being about fun.

This must be your first MMO.

That or this is a massive trolling and we all got baited hard.

lol, just because all the other MMO’s do it, GW2 needs to do more also?
Guild Wars was supposed to be a series of games that broke the trends of:

Ever increasing level up treadmilling

More and more layers of item tiers

Pay to play

Pay to win

Fetch quests and farming.

That’s been the general announcement from Anet since release. It’s why I keep coming back to GW after playing other MMO’s.

WoW: Monthly subscriptions are bad, so GW is better
Tera: Graphics great, but repetitive grind and static world and incomprehensible storyline makes it a drag
Star Wars t OR: Awesome story…at first… gameplay is a wow clone. End game consists entirely of farming for more tokens to get gear.
Star Trek Online: Ground combat is terrible, and pay to win is the core business model.
Wildstar: Started out great, then sudden price inflation and toxic atmosphere killed player base.
Elder Scrolls Online: Pretty good, but multiplayer mechanics very glitchy. Parties don’t share experience nor can they all participate in, in-game mission mechanics.

I’m just hoping that Anet learns from the failures of other MMO’s instead of imitating the causes of their collapse.

Every other game out there centers their end game on a level up treadmill along with farming for an inordinate amount of tokens/materials to get better gear than your neighbor. Yet they all went the way of the dinosaur. Why imitate that?

They’ve mainly gone free to play. However, in game pay to win scenarios keeps their membership numbers from increasing. It would seem to appear that dropping the price of your base game isn’t as important as adding substantive and innovative changes.

Anet already went through this set of problems with GW1. They made some very successful decisions then, which led the way to GW2. Why are they throwing out their good decisions out to replace them with the old failed models of others?

Derenek.8931:

Even with the phenomenal success of sales, Anet instead of beomig more generous, or even maintaining their “You get more than what you pay for” philosophy, made the game a pay to win system. They gave up on the living world stories almost immediately after beginning. Then instead of making them fee, players had to spend around 20 bucks a piece in gems to play them.

Only LS2 needs to be paid for and it began on July 1, 2014. Quite a long time after release, the game was released on August 2012, and they started selling their Living World releases on July 1st, nearly 2 years later. So how do you say they “gave up” on living world almost immediately? You don’t have to spend anything to play them if you are an old player and you log in during their release time. Do you remember how much you had to pay to get the full Experience of GW1 in that same 2 year time frame?

Not only that, the idea of skill based gaming, and a game earning its value through the quality and quantity of game they are selling, has completely gone out the window.

How did they remove skill-based gaming with HoT?

maddoctor.2738:

Derenek.8931:

Even with the phenomenal success of sales, Anet instead of beomig more generous, or even maintaining their “You get more than what you pay for” philosophy, made the game a pay to win system. They gave up on the living world stories almost immediately after beginning. Then instead of making them fee, players had to spend around 20 bucks a piece in gems to play them.

Only LS2 needs to be paid for and it began on July 1, 2014. Quite a long time after release, the game was released on August 2012, and they started selling their Living World releases on July 1st, nearly 2 years later. So how do you say they “gave up” on living world almost immediately? You don’t have to spend anything to play them if you are an old player and you log in during their release time. Do you remember how much you had to pay to get the full Experience of GW1 in that same 2 year time frame?

Not only that, the idea of skill based gaming, and a game earning its value through the quality and quantity of game they are selling, has completely gone out the window.

How did they remove skill-based gaming with HoT?

Thats actually not true. I bought the game at launch, but was stationed in kuwait for the army during ls2. When I came back and wanted to try it out, I had to pay gems.

I didnt say they removed skill based play. My concern is about the move towards farming for tokens/materials instead of additional content.

Derenek.8931:

maddoctor.2738:

Derenek.8931:

Even with the phenomenal success of sales, Anet instead of beomig more generous, or even maintaining their “You get more than what you pay for” philosophy, made the game a pay to win system. They gave up on the living world stories almost immediately after beginning. Then instead of making them fee, players had to spend around 20 bucks a piece in gems to play them.

Only LS2 needs to be paid for and it began on July 1, 2014. Quite a long time after release, the game was released on August 2012, and they started selling their Living World releases on July 1st, nearly 2 years later. So how do you say they “gave up” on living world almost immediately? You don’t have to spend anything to play them if you are an old player and you log in during their release time. Do you remember how much you had to pay to get the full Experience of GW1 in that same 2 year time frame?

Not only that, the idea of skill based gaming, and a game earning its value through the quality and quantity of game they are selling, has completely gone out the window.

How did they remove skill-based gaming with HoT?

Thats actually not true. I bought the game at launch, but was stationed in kuwait for the army during ls2. When I came back and wanted to try it out, I had to pay gems.

I didnt say they removed skill based play. My concern is about the move towards farming for tokens/materials instead of additional content.

Yes that’s why I said “if you log in”. It’s a way of keeping players playing, or at least logging in, just like the login rewards. That happened 2 years after release, we had 2 years full of releases without having to pay anything at all.

You were farming for materials and reputation in GW1 as well. That’s what you were doing in-between expansions. How about farming for reputation titles as requirement for joining teams in GW1? Lightbringer being the top offender, but EotN titles too sometimes.

There was also a high money requirement in GW1, you might’ve not noticed it since you had all expansions. The most powerful and commonly requested build for Mesmers was the Panic build, Panic was a Prophecies exclusive skill. Save Yourselves was a must-have skill for Paragons (a Nightfall profession) but it was available as a Factions exclusive. In other words, you had to pay up to play the most competitive and powerful builds, at least in GW2 you can farm that Ascended gear without the need to pay up real money to stay competitive.

Everyone, please stop. This has become the most useless forum. All it is is bickering with someone too stubborn to realize they are being ridiculous.

Despite what some believe ascended armor is relatively easy to get (apart from sinister stats). I made 1 of every time-gated material everyday for the past 2 weeks. O but what could it possibly be that I grind countless hours of precious life away on. Literally nothing. I do a run of SW, some pvp, maybe run around in Orr for silk and I gather everything. I play the game maybe ~2hrs a day now that i’m back in school and more on the weekends ~5hrs. I do a little of everything and enjoy it all, it is a game after all.

Grind is Subjective and is not necessary to achieve your goals. I can get a set of ascended in roughly a month and a half and for endgame gear I think that’s respectable since GW2 currently lacks endgame. Sure go grind moldy bags from events in Orr for 7 hours a day and complain the game is making you do it when it’s not; that is your choice. If you are so impatient and find you deserve some of the best gear in the game but can’t even log in for your daily laurels then go cry in the corner.

Raids “suggesting” ascended gear is fine imo. GW2 lacks endgame and a reason for players to generally stick around because there is nothing to work towards in PvE other than legendary’s which a lot of people don’t generally like. It will give something for people to work towards.

O hey I hit 80—wow that guy has some cool gear—O! its legendary gear from raids cool—I need ascended gear, well i better start working on it—finally have my gear time to raid!

BTW that is progression that many people suggest the game lacks. It is a clear direction for people to progress on.

Like others have said if you can not so much as log in for laurels and complain at every single detail, then raids and fractals are not for you. Go open world PvE, do dungeons, attempt to get good at PvP or zerg in WVW, hey living story season 3 is just around the corner.

You’re in the minority of players that don’t want to work for anything and want everything handed to them. Sure there could be less dedicated hardcore players on the forums to disprove your point because guess what, they actually play the game and enjoy it rather than playing the forums like its a reality T.V show. Continuously running around in the same argument hoping for like minded faceless internet strangers to give you your justification and make you feel better.

WOOO. What a rant! Get workin buddy cause the game ain’t changing just for you.

Thaddeus.4891:

Astralporing.1957:

shion.2084:

log in … get Laurels… have trinkets.

repeat that for 5 months for a set

84 days so less than 3 months and that’s the maximum.

maximum is 180 laurels at 35 laurels per 28 days (to a total of 147 days, almost 5 months). You can get 55 laurels a month if you pick laurels as a last day reward, which shortens it to 91 days (3 months). Notice, how 3 months isn’t that short at all. It’s definitely not (unlike what many people in this thread try to claim) “getting them easy and in no time”.

Thaddeus.4891:

So really, even someone that doesn’t like Fractal and in a very small guild can get a full set in 2 months with zero problem.

By farming 2 specific types of content (which isn’t “zero problem” either, but let’s drop that for now). And again, 2 months of doing that for one set is still a lot of time.

Ashen.2907:

Sorry, wasn’t trying to go as far as basics of life. Within the context of a game any specific piece of content or gear is optional.

Therefore there are no requirements in any game whatsoever. Good to know that.

Substance E.4852:

This must be your first MMO.

Nope. On the other hand, this one was supposed to be different.
Too bad, with each new reveal i am getting more and more disappointed with Anet’s lack of vision.

Derenek.8931:

Sidenti.6035:

Derenek.8931:

It depends on the actual result. There are players selling a solo Arah run for gold. However, those players and others like them are not representative of a majority of the customers of Anet and GW2. If a majority of players can complete the event and experience a challenge with exotic gear, then it isn’t a requirement. If they can not, it is one.

One of two things is happening here:

• You REALLY like to argue with people over just about any topic one can imagine, or;

• You don’t understand the concept of endgame content.

Assuming the latter, this is standard operating procedure for endgame content. It typically helps to have the best gear, because it’s supposed to be the most challenging content.

You see, there are people who play this game – a lot of them, actually – who are here to be challenged. They want difficult content, and are willing to acquire the gear and skills necessary to meet those challenges. For those who don’t care to wait, there’s the option of buying kittenpiles of gold (I’m starting to rather like the employment of the term “kitten” as a minced oath) and speeding up that whole process.

Now, if the ONLY way to get that gear were to be the Gem Store, then yes, I’d agree with you that this game is “pay to win”. However, since all of that stuff can be acquired simply by playing the game, it’s more “pay to be impatient”.

Of course, if your only reason for voicing these concerns is the former – that you just like arguing – then it would be super fantastic if you would simply state so for the benefit of others. Your constant posting on these topics across multiple threads can be misconstrued as the actions of someone who actually gives a kitten about the topic. -Sid

I’ve actually played Anet games since the GW1 beta. Bought each one at release an was always greatly impressed by not only their game design, but also by their company’s general principles of always giving a fantastic game for a decent price. Similarly, I pre-purchased both GW2 and HoT.

During that time, I’ve watched the entire industry grow and shrink and change according to the times.

Since the beginning, I was a fan of the company not just their games. Their philosphy of breaking the subscription model was a refreshing and exciting break from sub based games like WoW. When they released GW 1, I was amazed. They made a great and massive game and didn’t charge a fee. When they released their first sequel, I had some trepidation because sequels are rarely good. It also cost the same as GW1. I thought, along with all the pundits and media writers, that they were just trying to capitalize on the success of guild wars. Then they surprised everyone again. Cantha was the basis for an entirely new campaign and a FULL GAME. on an equal or greater scope than the original release. All during the same time, they continued supporting GW1 and we saw lots of interesting additions and enhancements. They didn’t just settle for giving another character class, like other game companies, they went full out and made a product worthy of the price tag. That really cemented my loyalty as a customer. Then time passed and the game lost players as it got older. So Anet announced Nightfall. Even with lagging player numbers, they not only made another full campaign with new character classes, they added in heroes. It was epic. Another big win for customers. They now had a reputation as a company that nt only makes great games, but oe that innovates and gives you a great amount of product for your money.

Then came EotN. From the day of announcement, Anet made clear it was only an expansion. However they were honest enough to tell customers that they knew an expansion with limited gameplay innovations or additions. They even kept up their reputation for respecting their players by pricing it at a lower rate. Not only that they gave us a bunch of new heroes and more character slots. As well as bonus rewards for those who would purchase GW2 when it was finally released.

Now we are in the modern era. The release of GW2 was in line with Anet’s earned reputation. The game is massive and the gameplay is above and beyond any other MMO in release. Black desert may steal their gameplay title next year, but for now it is still the best (I’ve played so many…) but the company just turned 180 degrees after release.

Even with the phenomenal success of sales, Anet instead of beomig more generous, or even maintaining their “You get more than what you pay for” philosophy, made the game a pay to win system. They gave up on the living world stories almost immediately after beginning. Then instead of making them fee, players had to spend around 20 bucks a piece in gems to play them.

Then they announced HoT. After a decade of being a loyal Anet fan and customer imagine my disappointment when they decided to change their philosophy of game design and release. You’d get a partially completed smaller campaign, only one character class, and by the way we’ll charge the same amount a full new game would cost.

Not only that, the idea of skill based gaming, and a game earning its value through the quality and quantity of game they are selling, has completely gone out the window.

Their games didn’t used to be about “oh, you guys have nothing left to do? umm I suppose we can add in some more pointless grinding to do” they used to be about, “You’ll buy this game/expansion, because it is freakin awesome in and of itself”

That means both player groups, hardcore players who had every armor and weapon in the game and did every mission to mind numbing complacency, as well as casual players alike would be excited and get their money’s worth.

I appreciate the need for some end game things to give something for hardcore players, but a hard mode and better AI in addition to an exciting campaign and new gameplay mechanics would be more appropriate than a higher tier of gear that you needed inordinate amounts of grinding to obtain.

Wow. You sure do like to type. In order, by paragraph (sorry, I’ve no time to go back and forth cutting out quotes):

• Right, so you’ve been here a while. That doesn’t necessarily mean you understand the concept of endgame. Just that you’ve played a few. But as I read on, I suppose that question will be answered.

• All of that sounds INCREDIBLY expensive. Or perhaps premade. (You know, having most of the particulars already coded before announcement of launch, etc.)

• And here comes the inevitable slowdown – which, really, you should have seen coming. It might be super cool and awesome and stuff to come out with a brand-new horkin’ game every update prior to this expansion, but I bet that’s about the point where they realized “hey, we can’t afford to keep doing this, even if it IS super cool and awesome and stuff – there won’t be any money left to show off the game we spent all of our money developing!”

• …and ANet probably put the cash and manpower they saved with Nightfall’s truncation into GW2. Didn’t seem to turn out all that badly, I think. They probably made the right call here.

• Stop. Stop right there. There’s a strong, sharp difference between “pay ro win” and “pay to not be impatient”. This game CLEARLY falls in the category of the latter. A good, actual example of “pay to win” is Magic: The Gathering. You HAVE to own certain cards, and there’s no way to earn them anymore (unless you manage to find someone who still plays for ante – good luck with that these days!). You can try entering a pack draft, but guess what? Entry fee! That is “pay to win”. GW2 is “pay to be impatient” – if you don’t want to grind, you don’t have to. Just buy some gems, buy the stuff you wanna buy, and boom. It’s as if you were grinding, because all that stuff you just bought off the trading post with your credit card gold IS ALL STUFF THAT CAN BE ACQUIRED IN-GAME BY PLAYING – EVEN BLACK LION CHEST STUFF. (The caps were necessary. You really need to understand this difference.)

• You DID notice the Revenant is four characters in one, right? Maybe five with the Elite spec? Sure, they gave you “only one character class”, but that one class has the potential to be the new meta. We’ll see how that turns out. As far as the price tag, that was kind of a necessary move with F2P. Did you not file for a refund for the core version purchase? You certainly had the option: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/ That would have saved you $50-60, essentially making the standard expansion FREE. So I don’t know why you’d be complaining there, unless you were ignorant of the refund opportunity (or bought it from a third party, in which case no, you don’t get a refund).

• I don’t know where you get the concept of “quality gaming” has gone out the window, particularly as the expansion hasn’t even been released yet. Surely I’m not talking to one of those types that formulates an ironclad opinion based on one or two beta tests – or, worse, on what others say online. Right?

• …you know what? I couldn’t finish the rest after you started whining about “pointless grinding”. I’d say “talk to me after it’s been out a few weeks”, but you’ve got your mind made up. Enjoy that.

Derenek.8931:

Cantha was the basis for an entirely new campaign and a FULL GAME. on an equal or greater scope than the original release. All during the same time, they continued supporting GW1 and we saw lots of interesting additions and enhancements. They didn’t just settle for giving another character class, like other game companies, they went full out and made a product worthy of the price tag. That really cemented my loyalty as a customer. Then time passed and the game lost players as it got older. So Anet announced Nightfall. Even with lagging player numbers, they not only made another full campaign with new character classes, they added in heroes. It was epic. Another big win for customers. They now had a reputation as a company that nt only makes great games, but oe that innovates and gives you a great amount of product for your money.

Then came EotN. From the day of announcement, Anet made clear it was only an expansion. However they were honest enough to tell customers that they knew an expansion with limited gameplay innovations or additions. They even kept up their reputation for respecting their players by pricing it at a lower rate. Not only that they gave us a bunch of new heroes and more character slots. As well as bonus rewards for those who would purchase GW2 when it was finally released.

Now we are in the modern era. The release of GW2 was in line with Anet’s earned reputation. The game is massive and the gameplay is above and beyond any other MMO in release. Black desert may steal their gameplay title next year, but for now it is still the best (I’ve played so many…) but the company just turned 180 degrees after release.

I loved GW1, still think it was a superior game to GW2, but you mention Cantha, Nightfall, and EotN in a thread complaining about the possibility of grind in HoT?

Cantha introduced gating content behind faction grind to the series. Nightfall expanded upon it, and EotN pushed it further still.