Auric Basin Leeching Octovine

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Posted by: Berserk Steve.1530

Berserk Steve.1530

Will this ever be fixed? At the minute it feels like its intentional that leechers come and get more rewards than the commanders who stay tagged at the lane actually pushing the meta event to be completed. I don’t understand why this is not lane debuffed like VW to prevent multiple lane leeching.

(edited by Berserk Steve.1530)

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Posted by: Donari.5237

Donari.5237

Do you mean they come and sit afk? Because if they come help kill your vine after their vine is dead, that helps everyone by making sure no vine fails. I have cognitive dissonance in trying to apply the term “leeching” to people actively working on events even if they do get a few more greens and blues than those who stay to guide one part of the meta.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

He’s referring to the Zerg that always starts at east and rotates counter clockwise until they’ve tagged all four bosses. At that point, the Zerg splits between the four bosses.

Aside from the travel time between bosses, they’re not really leeching.

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Posted by: Berserk Steve.1530

Berserk Steve.1530

I am referring to the large number of people who taxi in and zerg around so that they get 100% participation and maximum meta rewards including 4 octo chests for minimum effort. If everyone did this the meta event would fail.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

If everyone did this the meta event would fail.

Not really. On most maps that I have done this, the Zerg participates in the first DPS phase of each octovine and often helps complete the mechanic for each to make it vulnerable. There’s more than enough time to beat the meta without risk of failing. There’s even time for those that were not part of the Zerg to do a rotation around getting their tags in.

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Posted by: Berserk Steve.1530

Berserk Steve.1530

Ahh ok, a leech justifying leeching. I’ll stop replying to you and hope I don’t get you any time I lead.

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Posted by: Angie.1503

Angie.1503

Interesting post, too bad the comments are being made by leechers justifying the leech. I would love to see this fixed. It’s pretty annoying to lead my lane and that one of the things that I have to explain is that we need to rush the breacher and the frogs as soon as possible because if we don’t, everything will be really scaled and a mess because our lane is the first one that the leeching squad leeches. Pretty sad. They come, afk on the corner waiting for the people that are actually in the lane to remove the layers, scale the mobs in case it’s north and people haven’t had the time to kill them yet, and move on to another lane. I don’t really care what leechers tell themselves to feel better. It is also sad to see all the excuses that the people who do that use to excuse their behavior.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

You may want to look into just what leeching is first. If the Zerg goes around and participates in each mechanic and then the first burn phase, it’s hardly leeching. People AFK whether they are part of the Zerg or if they were there from the very start. People were AFKing before the Zerg became a thing.

Also, that’s an ad hominem. It has no bearing on whether what I stated was correct or not.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

This might be fixed in mid April.

While it’s not technically leeching, it does make the event very chaotic.

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Posted by: Dinosaurs.8674

Dinosaurs.8674

If everyone did this the meta event would fail.

Not really. On most maps that I have done this, the Zerg participates in the first DPS phase of each octovine and often helps complete the mechanic for each to make it vulnerable. There’s more than enough time to beat the meta without risk of failing. There’s even time for those that were not part of the Zerg to do a rotation around getting their tags in.

Maybe it wouldn’t fail if everyone actually helped with the fight mechanics, but typically the “leeching” zerg just runs to the next octovine and stands there watching others remove the layers so they can attack. Maybe some people help a bit, but there are plenty of people that just wait around for the octovine to become vulnerable, even after they have tagged all four.

I mean I have yet to see an octovine fail due to people tagging every octovine, and I myself have done it plenty of times…but it still seems really stupid. Generally the leeching zerg doesn’t help much with the octovine mechanics, but they still get 4x the rewards of someone who plays the fight as it is intended.

This works on chak gerent as well and it’s absolutely stupid in both cases. You shouldn’t be able to get rewarded multiple times for the same event.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

If everyone did this the meta event would fail.

Not really. On most maps that I have done this, the Zerg participates in the first DPS phase of each octovine and often helps complete the mechanic for each to make it vulnerable. There’s more than enough time to beat the meta without risk of failing. There’s even time for those that were not part of the Zerg to do a rotation around getting their tags in.

Maybe it wouldn’t fail if everyone actually helped with the fight mechanics, but typically the “leeching” zerg just runs to the next octovine and stands there watching others remove the layers so they can attack. Maybe some people help a bit, but there are plenty of people that just wait around for the octovine to become vulnerable, even after they have tagged all four.

I mean I have yet to see an octovine fail due to people tagging every octovine, and I myself have done it plenty of times…but it still seems really stupid. Generally the leeching zerg doesn’t help much with the octovine mechanics, but they still get 4x the rewards of someone who plays the fight as it is intended.

Octovine rarely fails, and when it does, it’s often because there was a troll that initiated the burn phase too early. The thing is, before people did the zerg thing, there were just as many that sat there and went AFK while the few did the mechanics.

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Posted by: Raithwall.8201

Raithwall.8201

think it any further…
remove the rewards for killing more than 1 octovine and nothing changes… real leechers will just stay at east do 1 burn and afk.
this whole thread just seems like oh im jelly some1 gets more loot for doing more than staying at 1 line and after the octovine is at 5% life go afk/bore around since everyone is there

most guys who rotate want to optimize rewards – and rewards are optimized if you tag all the events AND then succeed the meta
for my part i do the first burn at east – leave to south then and clear the breacher if it isnt dead+kill the mobs, then do 2-3phases at south then go west 1-2 burns and try to get north when everyone is ready for the final burst.
im quite sure that is way more effective and useful for the event than just staying at 1 of the octovines.

Also Anet may have thought something when they didnt block the ways from octovine to octovine during the event.

(edited by Raithwall.8201)

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Posted by: Angie.1503

Angie.1503

Lmao the excuses I read to justify this behavior are hilarious. Also, if Steve was “jelly” about someone getting more loot he would do it too, not want it to be fixed. heavy breathing

If everyone would work equally, there would be no need for you to go and help south. We are talking about people that move lanes and AFK AT THE SIDE waiting for the people in the lane to do the work for them. Stop pretending their help is needed. The only thing they do is dps and upscale mobs if they’re not killed yet. This event scales so their dps isn’t even needed. I’ve seen west being done by three players only.

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Posted by: Berserk Steve.1530

Berserk Steve.1530

The fact that it’s rumoured to be getting fixed makes me just lump all you guys justifying it in with people who claimed mossman tree was not an exploit before it was confirmed – people with crap attitudes who make up whatever they like to justify it.

If all lanes were properly manned and being played, you wouldnt be able to go south and kil the frog/breacher. If people weren’t being taught to leech they would actually be learning event mechanics. For everyone player who contributes when jumping octovines there are maybe 15 who do not, and half of them have never even had the chance to experience the event. I know this as fact as I have seen commanders teach the lane hopping to brand new players.
And how am I jealous? I have luminate backpack, I have all my ex machina stuff, I have astralaria and I have golden child and my viper gear. I literally do not need this event other than for fun or to help other people. That doesn’t make it fair that its the worst players there get the most reward.

(edited by Berserk Steve.1530)

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Posted by: Goatjugsoup.8637

Goatjugsoup.8637

Rotating is a legit strategy and not leaching at all.

If anything perhaps the rewards should be changed so that people get 1 chest for each octo that was killed or 1 overall. That would stop lazy whiners who just want to stay in one side from having anything to whine about

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Posted by: Amurond.4590

Amurond.4590

Lmao at this thread. People who generally end up doing more work are leechers. Sound logic.

I do dislike the people who just afk at the vine waiting to do damage to it (in my experience this a small minority of the rotaters – and also the non-rotaters) but that is a problem at every single meta event in this game; people being lazy and unwilling to do the lead-up work, and receiving the same rewards as those who do.

I’m not sure what the solution is exactly but I’d start with getting rid of the dumb participation requirement for getting full rewards (which will stop the rotating), the breach/VW in Silverwastes works fine without it. The rewards for doing the pre-events/the outposts etc should be gained on completion of those events, not on completion of killing the octovines. That way the people who do the lead-up work will be rewarded for it and those who don’t, won’t be. It will also fix the issue of doing a lot of work on one map (200% participation) only to find out your map isn’t doing Octo, having to taxi to a new map, and losing all your participation & effort. I believe this is something they’re working on fixing though in their overhaul.

As for the afkers at the vines… that is a much harder problem to fix and as I said, one not unique to the AB meta.

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(edited by Amurond.4590)

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Posted by: LazySummer.2568

LazySummer.2568

The real leechers are afks especially at south saying excuses like “I don’t have knockbacks” not the rotating zerg. Though most of the time like 1/3 of the rotating zerg go afk at south after the whole rotation

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Ahh ok, a leech justifying leeching. I’ll stop replying to you and hope I don’t get you any time I lead.

Regardless of whether the practice should continue, it’s not leeching by any stretch of the imagination — they participate in four events, they participate in the conclusion of one.

Leeching means they aren’t doing anything to promote the success of the endeavor.

If you want to convince ANet (never mind other players), I recommend that you spend more time working on your rhetoric and less time arguing with others about the phrasing — you’re doing harm to your own cause.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Manasa Devi.7958

Manasa Devi.7958

Blame the game. Taxiing, which is required for plenty of people to have a chance at winning the meta, sets your participation level to 0%. Doing a full circuit is pretty much required to get participation level up to a level where rewards are worthwhile.

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Posted by: Hubal.8571

Hubal.8571

Blame the game. Taxiing, which is required for plenty of people to have a chance at winning the meta, sets your participation level to 0%. Doing a full circuit is pretty much required to get participation level up to a level where rewards are worthwhile.

It is true that the game mechanics have huge impact on the player behavior and encourage certain type of play. Currently it promotes a skritt “want my shinies” mentality. The “meta” maps with per instance participation level – you are not encouraged to participate in events/maps that have low chances for the meta final.

The megaserver has really negative impact on populace mentality – before you had some more of a feeling of belonging to specific “server society” – which people behave differently.
That’s simple human thing – once you start to consider people you play with as “us” you behave differently – it’s practically build in.

In other aspects – I have noticed that for Shatterer – now we have like 50-60 people camping the WP while like 1-5 are doing the PRE. Before I recall we had 20-30 people at main event, and 10-15 were going for the pre. That’s 50% drop to 2-10%.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

I’ll do a follow up to my post.

I consider something leeching if you don’t meaningfully contribute to the success of the event/activity. What people did in SW with the breach event bosses by tagging and hopping to the next would be leaching. In DT, skipping the Zerg to tag multiple events would also be leeching. Although it’s now pretty much a necessity as players camp specific events (e.g. Queen) outside of the Zerg.

When it comes to octovine, I see the entire meta itself as a singular activity. You cannot succeed by completing just one side. So long as players in the Zerg contribute to the mechanics and DPS phase, when they’re at a particular side, it isn’t leeching.

What is leeching is if players go AFK at the mechanics part or after they got their tags in. The thing to keep in mind is that players going AFK occurs outside the Zerg just as it does with people that are in it. Before the Zerg became a thing, you would still have players who would AFK at each of the lanes until the DPS phase.

So rather than go after those that Zerg and call them leeching, go after those that specific go AFK inside and outside of the Zerg.

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Posted by: Kiza.5630

Kiza.5630

While it’s not technically leeching, it does make the event very chaotic.

This is another reason IMO. I’ve had Tarir fail twice over the weekend, because ppl think they are so invincible.

I had <10 ppl at the south gate and despite numerous pleas in map chat nobody came. ~50 or something like that apparently stacked with the commander at east and “everything will be good, we will rotate and help at south in the end”.

What happened was that south went not even to 75% until half of the timer when suddenly the other comm and a huge zerg popped up at south. In the end they overestimated their damage, the octovine became invulnerable at ~3% left and the event failed, because they regenerated.

I don’t understand why these events just cannot be played the way they are meant to be. For another 3 lousy event rewards people risk failing the whole event? I don’t get it. You’ll miss out on a lot of more chests that way. I’m also sick of taking the blame when my lane fails because of the chaos this creates.

So I would welcome a change like VW where it locks you to the lane you’ll start. Even if it means that you cannot help a struggling lane anymore.

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Posted by: Kiza.5630

Kiza.5630

Blame the game. Taxiing, which is required for plenty of people to have a chance at winning the meta, sets your participation level to 0%. Doing a full circuit is pretty much required to get participation level up to a level where rewards are worthwhile.

Only if you show up <5 Mins before the main event and let other players before do most of the work. A map that goes through the whole event chains with a couple of people organizing always does the meta event afterwards.

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Posted by: leftyboy.9358

leftyboy.9358

Ahh ok, a leech justifying leeching. I’ll stop replying to you and hope I don’t get you any time I lead.

Your premise is that if people do it the easy way and make more loot at same time, they’re leeches? And then when people disagree with you – you’re response is to act like a child who didn’t get something they wanted?

Here’s how zerg ( which has btw become the standard model of defeat for AB META) works. Starts east then rotates through other sides and ends on south. Pew Pew now we have more loot, which is just smart gameplay.

At this point your leech theory breaks down. The so called leeches, split to all sides, coordinate if short handed, grab armors as needed and then TOGETHER defeat the vine.

(edited by leftyboy.9358)

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Posted by: HazyDaisy.4107

HazyDaisy.4107

Doing the midnight to dawn runs of Marionette cured most of us of complaining for receiving too much help during a meta event. Doing Marionette before midnight or attempting TT anytime now, cured most of us of suggesting first chosen lane lockage.

Fact is, this is now a karma train event, similar to Jormag and Shatterer. You can either advertise and accept the extra help (which is needed 9/10 times) for a chance at success for everyone or continue to complain that the maps are always dead and the event is never successful.

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Posted by: Manasa Devi.7958

Manasa Devi.7958

Blame the game. Taxiing, which is required for plenty of people to have a chance at winning the meta, sets your participation level to 0%. Doing a full circuit is pretty much required to get participation level up to a level where rewards are worthwhile.

Only if you show up <5 Mins before the main event and let other players before do most of the work. A map that goes through the whole event chains with a couple of people organizing always does the meta event afterwards.

If you say so. I’ve never been on a map that long.

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Posted by: Ardid.7203

Ardid.7203

I usually do south without commanders and have rarelly seen the meta fail.
I have never imagined you could rotate around and get extra credit for completing 4 events.
Actually, it sounds fun, I’ll do it next time to see if it works.

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Posted by: Celtic Lady.3729

Celtic Lady.3729

I am referring to the large number of people who taxi in and zerg around so that they get 100% participation and maximum meta rewards including 4 octo chests for minimum effort. If everyone did this the meta event would fail.

From my experience these days, the meta fails repeatedly for all kinds of reasons. This is only one of them.

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Posted by: DarcShriek.5829

DarcShriek.5829

This may be remedied by making the vines have similar difficulties. The balance on the vines is warped.

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Posted by: yurdun.2501

yurdun.2501

They need to fix this by forcing everyone to rotate, at 25% damage each lane blocks you from continuing to damage it and you must move on to the next one. Then everyone gets rewards and the lazy people get nothing… ez pz and on the plus side everyone is forced to learn how to do all of them properly…

(edited by yurdun.2501)

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Posted by: Orion Templar.4589

Orion Templar.4589

I didn’t know that tagging all the vines was a thing until fairly recently. I usually just picked a lane and stayed there. Someone mentioned the zerg rotation once and I tried it and have done that ever since. I usually make the rotation and then move back to whatever lane needs help. I usually wind up at south or west and occasionally at north. When the zerg splits up after a rotation and helps where needed I think it is an effective strategy. I’m honestly not trying to justify leeching – I simply don’t see this as a leeching behavior. It’s a valid way to approach this encounter.

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Posted by: Neox.3497

Neox.3497

There is just so much wrong with the new map meta events. This is a good example.

Also to make it clear I’m also part of this “zerg” (did this quite early before it was that common) and who should you blame? Me? Or maybe anet for creating such a bad system?

There are two general problems.

1. Erything is on a fixed timer. Joining a map early on and doing events is just plain stupid. Most of the event chains don’t take that long (TD) or are repetetive and unrewarding (VB). Joining to the final meta event is way too rewarding in comparison.

2. Tagging multiple events shouldn’t be possible and they give too much map participation most of the time too.

Ideally when joining one of the new maps you should be able to do this: Just do events and help progress the meta event WITHOUT feeling that this progress goes to waste (maps closing) or that changing the map with a taxi gives you better rewards.

If they remove the timers and if they balance it somehow so that you need to participate at atleast ~50% of all “pre-map meta event” events to get the best rewards (100% participation) would be nice.

In other words if there are 4 total Tiers and you were doing events from Tier 1 (0%) to
Tier 3 (0%), you would get 100% loot for the all events in Tier 3, Tier 4 and the final meta.

Joining a map that is at the final meta event and doing events SHOULD NOT give you the best loot.

Joining a map that is at Tier 1 to Tier 3 and doing events till the end should give you the best rewards instead.

Would that eliminate leechers? Probably not all of them. But with that they would at least have to do a lot more. Also taxi-ing should be much less common which after all shouldn’t be needed for open world content anyway.

(edited by Neox.3497)

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

Blame the game. Taxiing, which is required for plenty of people to have a chance at winning the meta, sets your participation level to 0%. Doing a full circuit is pretty much required to get participation level up to a level where rewards are worthwhile.

Not that I agree with taxiing to be required, I do think it’s indeed a design flaw. Players will always try to get the most reward out of any challenge, especially after playing it over and over again.

This simply should be fixed for rewards to be equal between anyone who participates in whatever way they choose. It’s one big event. And both tactics obviously work, but while everyone does their thing that leads to success not everyone gets the same reward for the meta event. That’s simply a design flaw.

Defeating the octovine is the goal, and one goal needs to give equal reward to everyone.

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Posted by: Manasa Devi.7958

Manasa Devi.7958

The participation reward system is just generally flawed. There’s this here. There’s also sitting afk at the end of a meta with your 200% slowly ticking down while you get chest after chest if you’re lucky and the map turns out to be one that remains active on the next cycle. There’s so many ways to game the system.

The participation system is a good idea, but needs refinement.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

I guess we’ll see in 3 weeks what happens to it all.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

The participation reward system is just generally flawed. There’s this here. There’s also sitting afk at the end of a meta with your 200% slowly ticking down while you get chest after chest if you’re lucky and the map turns out to be one that remains active on the next cycle. There’s so many ways to game the system.

The participation system is a good idea, but needs refinement.

Or participate in something that awards participation every 30 minutes and never lose it.

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Posted by: Trinnitty.8256

Trinnitty.8256

There are alot of zerg leechers that park by south gate after the tag train is done.

I still can’t believe anet designed these map events that encourage running and tagging events and leaving for more rewards. Its been going on for awhile in drytop and silverwastes.

Just make meta instances where you talk to npc guy at a certain time and it zones you to a special event map with everyone else and the event begins in 10 minutes after it gets enough players inside. No more taxing crap and having people afk in a map long before an events going to take place. The event completes everyone gets a completion reward.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

The participation reward system is just generally flawed. There’s this here. There’s also sitting afk at the end of a meta with your 200% slowly ticking down while you get chest after chest if you’re lucky and the map turns out to be one that remains active on the next cycle. There’s so many ways to game the system.

The participation system is a good idea, but needs refinement.

Or participate in something that awards participation every 30 minutes and never lose it.

You don’t seem to get it.

The “sitting afk at 200 participation in a map” generally happens when you’re actually done playing. But because you get rewards for every tier while you still have participation you still get rewards if you just stay logged in afking in the map, because you have a certain amount of participation that probably will give you a certain amount of “free” rewards. Why log out of a map if you can just stay logged in and go away to see a movie, eat dinner go or whatever else you want to do beside playing Guild Wars 2. Rewards come raining in with zero effort.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

The participation reward system is just generally flawed. There’s this here. There’s also sitting afk at the end of a meta with your 200% slowly ticking down while you get chest after chest if you’re lucky and the map turns out to be one that remains active on the next cycle. There’s so many ways to game the system.

The participation system is a good idea, but needs refinement.

Or participate in something that awards participation every 30 minutes and never lose it.

You don’t seem to get it.

The “sitting afk at 200 participation in a map” generally happens when you’re actually done playing. But because you get rewards for every tier while you still have participation you still get rewards if you just stay logged in afking in the map, because you have a certain amount of participation that probably will give you a certain amount of “free” rewards. Why log out of a map if you can just stay logged in and go away to see a movie, eat dinner go or whatever else you want to do beside playing Guild Wars 2. Rewards come raining in with zero effort.

I was adding onto what they were saying… not making another argument…

I know full well about people who AFK on the map to run out their participation. And if someone came back every 30 minutes to do an event, they would maintain their participation indefinitely. So I don’t really know what you were trying to get at with your post.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

Oh right like that. I somehow thought you meant to say that it also works out for the good if you still have participation after 30 minutes, and can keep going, rather than loosing progression.

My bad.

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