Retsu ~ Inner Monkey [IM] ~ Piken Square
Auric Basin too popular?
I happen to think that ML is definitely draining people off of other maps in a bad way sometimes, leaving more instances of VB, DS, and TD with not enough people who know what they are doing to finish than would otherwise happen if ML weren’t so popular.
ANet has said that they will address ABML, but they haven’t said when and they haven’t said how. They could nerf it, they could just come out with a statement that says they encourage it. We don’t know.
Octovine … maybe
AB? uh certainly doesn’t look like it to me.
on the other hand octovine doesn’t seem to overlap with much else, at least not for the upcoming one so that would be making it a scapegoat
I happen to think that ML is definitely draining people off of other maps in a bad way sometimes, leaving more instances of VB, DS, and TD with not enough people who know what they are doing to finish than would otherwise happen if ML weren’t so popular.
Seems a bit unfair to blame Octovine for people being clueless in other area of the game.
Octovine … maybe
AB? uh certainly doesn’t look like it to me.
on the other hand octovine doesn’t seem to overlap with much else, at least not for the upcoming one so that would be making it a scapegoat
I happen to think that ML is definitely draining people off of other maps in a bad way sometimes, leaving more instances of VB, DS, and TD with not enough people who know what they are doing to finish than would otherwise happen if ML weren’t so popular.
Seems a bit unfair to blame Octovine for people being clueless in other area of the game.
Not really. People go and talk about where the profit is. I have people in my guild who have beaten the Ocotovine dozens of times but have never even attempted TD. Why? Because people dont’ talk about it or go there. And part of the reason, is that it’s not as profitable.
Once any one area of the game becomes more profitable than any other, particularly if it’s not that hard, it’s where people will be (reference the Silverwastes). Not everyone is going to research stuff on reddit or Dulfy. The go to what they hear about and what they learn and known. It’s a comfort zone.
If TD was more profitable than it is, then that’s where people would be.
And people who have time for one meta or two metas a night, they’re going to wait until AB rather than leaving their comfort zone.
But if everyone was doing TD and talking about TD and it was more profitable, that’s what people would be doing.
I have people in my guild who have beaten the Ocotovine dozens of times but have never even attempted TD. Why?
Ah, I know this one. It’s because TD sucks.
The end of ML will do nothing to change that.
The AB Meta event only takes 15 mins to do.
15 mins every 2 hours isnt going to do much to drain the other zones.
I do this event a lot , and it typically averages around 10 – 15 players per gate, so a total of 60 players tops.
Thats less people than you typically see standing around the TP in Rata Sum.
As for why ppl dont go to TD, how about the insanely difficult terrain.
I have people in my guild who have beaten the Ocotovine dozens of times but have never even attempted TD. Why?
Ah, I know this one. It’s because TD sucks.
The end of ML will do nothing to change that.
If people knew TD the way they knew AB it wouldn’t suck. It’s all training. People in my guild get around TD just fine after they’re shown a couple of times. Half of it is just knowing where the nuhoch wallows go. But once you have Nuhock Wallows, it’s not the same.
And does VB suck too because that gets a whole lot less attention than AB too.
And does VB suck too…
Yes, but not as much and for different reasons.
And Vayne, take a step back and listen to yourself for a moment. You’re saying TD is ok once folks have had a couple of training sessions. When training is required for open world PVE you know that the devs got it very, very wrong. I know you love these maps and defend them to the hilt but open your eyes and look around once in a while mate!
The AB Meta event only takes 15 mins to do.
15 mins every 2 hours isnt going to do much to drain the other zones.
I do this event a lot , and it typically averages around 10 – 15 players per gate, so a total of 60 players tops.
Thats less people than you typically see standing around the TP in Rata Sum.
As for why ppl dont go to TD, how about the insanely difficult terrain.
its not only 15min though, for example
12:45 challenges start = 15mins
1:00~1:30 octovine~looting event using all characters = 30mins
and as what you have said 15 players per gate so 60 players PER MAP
Let’s say multi loot maps consist of minimum of 3maps = 180 players
and ppl need to go back at least 2:45 for the next AB Meta
so the only free time for those AB Meta farmers are around
1:30~2:45
I’m a multiloot farmer before but I can’t accomplish many things because of limited time every other AB Meta(like what i said only 1hr+ of free time till meta begins again)
(edited by Dvantaman.3617)
Maybe instead of trying to nerf the one map, the others should be brought up to speed?
If the only reason ppl are doing the AB event is for the loot, then you dont have to do the challenges.
In fact , Im not even sure how much of the actual event you have to do either, as theres always a bunch of AFKs sitting up the back watching.
And does VB suck too…
Yes, but not as much and for different reasons.
And Vayne, take a step back and listen to yourself for a moment. You’re saying TD is ok once folks have had a couple of training sessions. When training is required for open world PVE you know that the devs got it very, very wrong. I know you love these maps and defend them to the hilt but open your eyes and look around once in a while mate!
Doc you nailed it, I have every other map completed in HoT except TD. I despise this map and its extreme navigation. I for one refuse to do a “training class” for something that is supposed to be a game I play to have fun, not get frustrated. (isn’t that what they created jumping puzzles for, the frustration aspect?)
I run Bitterfrost personally for the loot then anywhere besides TD for fun.
The First and Only Blaq Sheep
People run AB for the multiloot; those who aren’t there solely for look always end up AB because that’s where there is consistently people hanging around. I honestly prefer TD but don’t get to it much since it’s regularly empty or under populated
Maybe instead of trying to nerf the one map, the others should be brought up to speed?
No way! We can’t handle such revolutionary ideas.
but more seriously … VB’s reward really sucks considering the 40 minutes involved
probably longer since you’ll probably need to start organizing before night time
And in comparison Verdant Brink is dead as a dodo.
I remember when it came out the map was heaving, and even 6-9 months ago it was regularly organized. Now? I’ve been farming map currency for collection stuff, and it’s just super dead.
I get that everyone is doing mm or the new maps, but the OG HoT maps are just going to die completely. DS is fine because it’s an easy meta, if time consuming. And AB has multimap loot – for now.
But VB and Tangled Depths? They gotta do something. Either nerf the difficulty heavily to make them way easier to do, OR re-incentivise them.
Pre-Ordered HoT | Recently started to get what I paid for – may spend $$$
(edited by MashMash.1645)
And in comparison Verdant Brink is dead as a dodo.
I remember when it came out the map was heaving, and even 6-9 months ago it was regularly organized. Now? I’ve been farming map currency for collection stuff, and it’s just super dead.
I get that everyone is doing mm or the new maps, but the OG HoT maps are just going to die completely. DS is fine because it’s an easy meta, if time consuming. And AB has multimap loot – for now.
But VB and Tangled Depths? They gotta do something. Either nerf the difficulty heavily to make them way easier to do, OR re-incentivise them.
There isn’t much point to do the VB night time meta. You are better off getting crowbars during the day and spend the night using them.
They’re planning to address AB multi. The reasons are more or less as you say. As players tend to go for maximum reward for minimal effort, AB multi is attractive. Close the loophole and the assault on Tarir is still a relatively rewarding map meta, but will not result in players dropping whatever else they happen to be doing to rush to AB.
That they don’t occur at the same time is only relevant to a point. I’m burning a finite resource (i.e. giving a kitten about farming gold in GW2) here. The existence of a far easier and far more rewarding meta makes the under-rewarded metas that much less attractive to me.
The solution comes in two parts: Closing the AB multi exploit is one, the other is making metas like VB and TD actually worth participating in. They are far more difficult to complete and reward far less than even a single looting of Tarir! That’s just awful design and they really should have addressed it within the first few months of HoT release. Unfortunately, they seem to have a bit of a blind spot toward these things.
And in comparison Verdant Brink is dead as a dodo.
I remember when it came out the map was heaving, and even 6-9 months ago it was regularly organized. Now? I’ve been farming map currency for collection stuff, and it’s just super dead.
I get that everyone is doing mm or the new maps, but the OG HoT maps are just going to die completely. DS is fine because it’s an easy meta, if time consuming. And AB has multimap loot – for now.
But VB and Tangled Depths? They gotta do something. Either nerf the difficulty heavily to make them way easier to do, OR re-incentivise them.
There isn’t much point to do the VB night time meta. You are better off getting crowbars during the day and spend the night using them.
Exactly. How did they think that it was okay to have room after room of exalted chests, including chests with guaranteed rares for completing Tarir, when VB and TD reward basically nothing? You’re far better off simply looting chak caches/airship cargo during the normal event cycle.
Pathetic design. Increase these rewards already, guys! You do a disservice to yourselves designing such amazing maps and then pulling a total fail on the rewards in this way!
And in comparison Verdant Brink is dead as a dodo.
I remember when it came out the map was heaving, and even 6-9 months ago it was regularly organized. Now? I’ve been farming map currency for collection stuff, and it’s just super dead.
I get that everyone is doing mm or the new maps, but the OG HoT maps are just going to die completely. DS is fine because it’s an easy meta, if time consuming. And AB has multimap loot – for now.
But VB and Tangled Depths? They gotta do something. Either nerf the difficulty heavily to make them way easier to do, OR re-incentivise them.
There isn’t much point to do the VB night time meta. You are better off getting crowbars during the day and spend the night using them.
Exactly. How did they think that it was okay to have room after room of exalted chests, including chests with guaranteed rares for completing Tarir, when VB and TD reward basically nothing? You’re far better off simply looting chak caches/airship cargo during the normal event cycle.
Pathetic design. Increase these rewards already, guys! You do a disservice to yourselves designing such amazing maps and then pulling a total fail on the rewards in this way!
I agree that the rewards for VB and TD meta are rather lacking. Yet its surprising to me how many people who participate in ABML I have seen be against increasing the rewards of VB and TD because “rewards are fine, don’t need to increase them” considering that they do nothing but the most rewarding meta in the game and then use what amounts to an exploit to get even more loot from it
I don’t know what Anets plan is for removing multiloot, but my thought was taking it off the timer and making it event based like the Silverwastes. The meta would only occur when all the events were done, so maps wouldn’t all be looting at the same time
The easiest way to fix it would just be to put an ICD on the big chests long enough to prevent you from looting them more than once but short enough that you can still loot them again after the next meta cycle.
The easiest way to fix it would just be to put an ICD on the big chests long enough to prevent you from looting them more than once but short enough that you can still loot them again after the next meta cycle.
The craziest thing about ABML is the fact that you can loot the chests without ever participating in the event.
And does VB suck too…
Yes, but not as much and for different reasons.
And Vayne, take a step back and listen to yourself for a moment. You’re saying TD is ok once folks have had a couple of training sessions. When training is required for open world PVE you know that the devs got it very, very wrong. I know you love these maps and defend them to the hilt but open your eyes and look around once in a while mate!
Actually I didn’t have training sessions and neither did a lot of other people. They learned by trial and error.
Would you try to navigate VB without glidiing? Of course not.
Nor should you try to navigate TD without nuhoch wallows. The zone was made for them. Once you make that leap of logic it’s much much easier.
The easiest way to fix it would just be to put an ICD on the big chests long enough to prevent you from looting them more than once but short enough that you can still loot them again after the next meta cycle.
The craziest thing about ABML is the fact that you can loot the chests without ever participating in the event.
You can loot the pods in DS without doing anything. You can loot the caches in TD without doing anything. You can loot the airship cargo in VB without doing anything.
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
ANet needs to do another reward balance pass over the HoT maps. AB multi-loot is popular partly because it’s highly rewarding, but the other half of the issue is that the other maps are woefully UNrewarding for the time and energy you have to put into them.
1. Verdant Brink deserves a special mention for having a loot system setup that actually works against the meta. You need to have everybody spread out defending camps and doing events, but night time is ALSO the best time for you to go Cargo hunting, because all of the map’s cargoes will have spawned by then. As such, your choice is either to work towards the meta, or go get rewards, and since there’s no real special reward for scoring high in the VB meta (the Bladed Chest box is not an enticing enough reward), most players will opt to go Cargo hunting instead.
2. AB I feel has a nice balance between rewards and effort/time spent. I don’t multi-map myself, and I still feel nicely rewarded just from opening all the chests below Tarir. Once ANet fixes the multi-map, I think people will still do AB regularly, just maybe not as hardcore farmable as before.
3. TD is by far the hardest meta of the HoT maps, in my opinion. It’s the only one that I still see fail on a regular basis. To top it off, the reward you get for completing it successfully is rather dismal. You get one Chak Egg plus assorted loot from the Gerent chest, and then 8 Crystal Supply Caches that, frankly, you could get far more simply by wandering around the map opening caches you come across. The loot from the Gerent chest needs to be beefed up by a lot (it should give a minimum of 5 Chak Eggs each time, for instance. Those things are hard to farm now!), and perhaps something like “Grand Crystal Caches” need to be added for completing each of the camps, and for successfully completing the meta.
4. DS will probably continue to remain populated as the only source for Crystalline Ore in the game, but I think that the Noxious Pods do need a bit of love as far as loot is concerned. You can get WAAAAY more blues and greens doing chest runs in the Silverwastes or Bitterfrost Frontier, and once you’ve farmed all the Crystalline Ore you need, there’s really no reason to ever return to DS, not when you can get much better loot from the other HoT maps.
5. Finally, there needs to be new sinks for the various map special trophies, ESPECIALLY Airship Oil. Seriously, those things only have ONE sink, and that’s for making Fulgurite. Yet you get tons and tons of it from opening Cargoes. My proposal is to add 3 more tabs to the Ley-Energy Converter; you purchase them by spending 250 of each type of item (Airship Oil, Auric Dust, or Ley-Energy Sparks) at a vendor in the appropriate map.
Once unlocked, each day you can spend some of the matching trophies to purchase various rewards, ranging from other map trophies (probably something like 25 of one type for 5 of another), to Heavy Crafting Bags and Lodestone Bags, to (rarely) valuable trophies like Reclaimed Metal Plates and Chak Eggs.
+1 to your suggestions!
Would be nice to see the TD meta rewards being upped considerably. Also, consolidating the rewards in VB back to the meta would be nice. Have fewer airship cargoes spawn at random, and increase the rewards you get from the bouncy chests for participating in the meta events?
As for DS, I haven’t participated enough to really gauge how the rewards line up with the required effort. But I know that I hate that you are kicked out of the map when the timer ends. I don’t like that, because after the meta is over would be the perfect time to go about map completion, since there aren’t any events to do, yet you only have a very limited amount of time and most people want to spend it looting pods
after the meta is over would be the perfect time to go about map completion, since there aren’t any events to do, yet you only have a very limited amount of time and most people want to spend it looting pods
I tend to do one one lane then get all the other WP’s at the end. Second run I can then WP round getting the HPs and Poi’s and then map complete. I bet you could do it all in one run if you put your mind to it, I always get distracted by something or forget where that one last annoying to get poi / vista is hence normally just doing it in two runs to avoid going into stressy panic mode at the very end.
Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!
+1 to your suggestions!
Would be nice to see the TD meta rewards being upped considerably. Also, consolidating the rewards in VB back to the meta would be nice. Have fewer airship cargoes spawn at random, and increase the rewards you get from the bouncy chests for participating in the meta events?
As for DS, I haven’t participated enough to really gauge how the rewards line up with the required effort. But I know that I hate that you are kicked out of the map when the timer ends. I don’t like that, because after the meta is over would be the perfect time to go about map completion, since there aren’t any events to do, yet you only have a very limited amount of time and most people want to spend it looting pods
right after the meta is the best time to go get acids from the events …
ANet needs to do another reward balance pass over the HoT maps. AB multi-loot is popular partly because it’s highly rewarding, but the other half of the issue is that the other maps are woefully UNrewarding for the time and energy you have to put into them.
1. Verdant Brink deserves a special mention for having a loot system setup that actually works against the meta. You need to have everybody spread out defending camps and doing events, but night time is ALSO the best time for you to go Cargo hunting, because all of the map’s cargoes will have spawned by then. As such, your choice is either to work towards the meta, or go get rewards, and since there’s no real special reward for scoring high in the VB meta (the Bladed Chest box is not an enticing enough reward), most players will opt to go Cargo hunting instead.
2. AB I feel has a nice balance between rewards and effort/time spent. I don’t multi-map myself, and I still feel nicely rewarded just from opening all the chests below Tarir. Once ANet fixes the multi-map, I think people will still do AB regularly, just maybe not as hardcore farmable as before.
3. TD is by far the hardest meta of the HoT maps, in my opinion. It’s the only one that I still see fail on a regular basis. To top it off, the reward you get for completing it successfully is rather dismal. You get one Chak Egg plus assorted loot from the Gerent chest, and then 8 Crystal Supply Caches that, frankly, you could get far more simply by wandering around the map opening caches you come across. The loot from the Gerent chest needs to be beefed up by a lot (it should give a minimum of 5 Chak Eggs each time, for instance. Those things are hard to farm now!), and perhaps something like “Grand Crystal Caches” need to be added for completing each of the camps, and for successfully completing the meta.
4. DS will probably continue to remain populated as the only source for Crystalline Ore in the game, but I think that the Noxious Pods do need a bit of love as far as loot is concerned. You can get WAAAAY more blues and greens doing chest runs in the Silverwastes or Bitterfrost Frontier, and once you’ve farmed all the Crystalline Ore you need, there’s really no reason to ever return to DS, not when you can get much better loot from the other HoT maps.
5. Finally, there needs to be new sinks for the various map special trophies, ESPECIALLY Airship Oil. Seriously, those things only have ONE sink, and that’s for making Fulgurite. Yet you get tons and tons of it from opening Cargoes. My proposal is to add 3 more tabs to the Ley-Energy Converter; you purchase them by spending 250 of each type of item (Airship Oil, Auric Dust, or Ley-Energy Sparks) at a vendor in the appropriate map.
Once unlocked, each day you can spend some of the matching trophies to purchase various rewards, ranging from other map trophies (probably something like 25 of one type for 5 of another), to Heavy Crafting Bags and Lodestone Bags, to (rarely) valuable trophies like Reclaimed Metal Plates and Chak Eggs.
I think 1. could be solved by making the Canopy bosses spawn earlier during the night phase and making T4 easier to hit (requiring only the equivalent of a single successful map-wide defense + some camp upgrades+ all bosses killed?) VB has the dubious honor of being the HoT map that’s second only to DS for the time it takes to get the best reward. If people were confident that there would still be ample time to loot after reaching T4 I think more people would be willing to do it.
With 2. the MM solution would probably end up treating the chests like something similar to world boss dailies, per-account instead of per-map (though possibly resetting every cycle instead of every day)
3. Do agree there needs to be better caches that spawn after finishing the garent event. I know from experience that you can get more than one egg from the final chest, though I won’t argue against more eggs.
Answer to 4.: more recipes and vendors requiring crystalline ore/ingots, though as long as new legendaries require the stuff I don’t ever see DS ever completely dying off. Still, wouldn’t mind seeing more payoff for the 2 hour investment that killing the Mouth is.
And for the love of all that is good; Yes, give us another outlet for Airship Oil.
Would def like to see AB ML being solved. AB ML is completely breaking PvE rewards schema.
More rewards for TD would certainly not go be bad either.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
And does VB suck too…
Yes, but not as much and for different reasons.
And Vayne, take a step back and listen to yourself for a moment. You’re saying TD is ok once folks have had a couple of training sessions. When training is required for open world PVE you know that the devs got it very, very wrong. I know you love these maps and defend them to the hilt but open your eyes and look around once in a while mate!
Vayne isn’t alone in that. I don’t expect everyone to like TD, but there are a lot of us who consider it the best map in the game for the very reasons others consider it a nightmare.
You have an entire game full of maps that don’t present a real exploration challenge. Let us have this one map and (hopefully) we’ll see at least one more like it in the next expansion. The LS3 map layouts indicate that the devs have heard your side of it. Let us have ours as well.
And does VB suck too…
Yes, but not as much and for different reasons.
And Vayne, take a step back and listen to yourself for a moment. You’re saying TD is ok once folks have had a couple of training sessions. When training is required for open world PVE you know that the devs got it very, very wrong. I know you love these maps and defend them to the hilt but open your eyes and look around once in a while mate!
Vayne isn’t alone in that. I don’t expect everyone to like TD, but there are a lot of us who consider it the best map in the game for the very reasons others consider it a nightmare.
You have an entire game full of maps that don’t present a real exploration challenge. Let us have this one map and (hopefully) we’ll see at least one more like it in the next expansion. The LS3 map layouts indicate that the devs have heard your side of it. Let us have ours as well.
You can have your exploration challenge maps if you want. Just please don’t gate my collections behind a really high amount of map specific currency that can only be gained in that map.
First they have to fix the multiloop. Then with more maps and meta events getting added I would also suggest to add a daily changing bonus on loot for a single map. Something like 1.5x loot on TD this day and 1.5x loot on VB the next day and so on.
Basically channel the player base on a certain part of the game so everything will be played at some time and to have more variation.