Big Ventari/Staff Concern

Big Ventari/Staff Concern

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: NiisanSora.6289

NiisanSora.6289

While the staff and Ventari legend are encouraged to be used together, it brings about a massive concern due to its primary role of support with little Damage. If someone is using this combo, is there a system in place that will allow them to receive drops or will they still have to solely rely on tagging enemies? This combo only has four skills (skills 1, 2, 5, 10) that do any damage, two of which require close combat. In GW1 they had a system in place for the Monk but it seemed to work out of parties, rather than solo play. If the issue loot drops and event participation isn’t addressed (even if it’s just someone saying that there is a system in place and/or they are working on something), it may discourage this support play-style from being utilized. Thank you for your time!

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Posted by: Taneru.2736

Taneru.2736

You don’t have to use Staff and Ventari together.

It works fairly well with Jalis, especially when using the Reflexive Summon trait and the Vengeful Hammers utility.

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Posted by: NiisanSora.6289

NiisanSora.6289

The point was that Staff with Ventari maximizes the healing/support role that has been given to the Rev and that the current loot system doesn’t support that role.

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Posted by: Inimicus.7162

Inimicus.7162

For what it’s worth, I think the staff may have the highest auto attack damage of all 3 of the Rev’s current weapon selections, and that set damage of skill 5 can get really crazy if you line it up right with your enemy.

I also assume that there will be many more changes yet to come, I think one of the two most common gripes about the class at the moment is it’s utter lack of a strong damage option right now on any of it’s weapons when compared to anything else.

For this beta I had a full set of ascended zerker gear, with pack runes, air/bloodlust sigils and even all accessories sitting in my bank, ready for my real revenant, and put it onto my beta. It’s still really lack luster. Mostly for weak attacks, but really clunky skills plays a large part of it too. Clunky meaning, they have after casts or sometimes they feel like they have odd warmups/precasts, long cast times, and several of them ofc root you during the animation.

The staff actually struck me as the cleanest functioning weapon of them all, with the most clunky thing being skill 2. But again, the damage was horrid and that will be something they are going to have to address.

And I can’t let all this melee staff talk go without pointing out that a polearm weapon type with actual purpose-built polearm skins would have looked 1,000,001% better. The stance and moves all scream polearms, and cry bloody rivers for being wasted on staff skins.

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Posted by: Quiznos.4296

Quiznos.4296

This isn’t only a concern for staff/ventari revs, but something I’ve been facing for years as a primarily heals/support guardian.

Support/heals build aren’t rewarding in terms of loot.
most of the time they aren’t even appreciated in party situations; so the old pooling of party loot (as managed by the players) is out.

The exception being PvP thanks to reward tracks.

Unfortunately the “down with the trinity” attitude present in gw2 means dps is king. I hope a net compensates healers/support builds fairly and don’t understand why they’d introduce a profession that’s so support heavy without it…

Who knows what HoT will bring?

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Posted by: Mudblup.5467

Mudblup.5467

Everytime I use staff/ventari and take on healing/support role, I’ll send my tablet out to heal others and almost every monster attacks me. Should I just stick close to my tablet or bring the tablet back to me? just curious

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Posted by: Kaiser.9873

Kaiser.9873

They really need to allow weapon swapping on the Rev. I don’t know if they will or not, and kind of think they won’t, but each weapon set alone seems very lacking.

I have to admit I haven’t played my Rev for more than a couple of hours, but I really wish they’d beta them with the damage trait line in place. It’s definitely a L2P issue with me on this I do not deny that, but they seem to really be a jack of all trades master of none type class atm.

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Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

This isn’t only a concern for staff/ventari revs, but something I’ve been facing for years as a primarily heals/support guardian.

Support/heals build aren’t rewarding in terms of loot.
most of the time they aren’t even appreciated in party situations; so the old pooling of party loot (as managed by the players) is out.

The exception being PvP thanks to reward tracks.

Unfortunately the “down with the trinity” attitude present in gw2 means dps is king. I hope a net compensates healers/support builds fairly and don’t understand why they’d introduce a profession that’s so support heavy without it…

Who knows what HoT will bring?

If you’re playing support guardian, you should be plunking symbols right in the middle of everything anyways. You should never have any problems with getting tags.

~~~

IN GENERAL

Short version: You’re carrying 2 different legends, switch them the way you’d switch a weapon. That’s how the system is set up.

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Posted by: Artaz.3819

Artaz.3819

IN GENERAL

Short version: You’re carrying 2 different legends, switch them the way you’d switch a weapon. That’s how the system is set up.

The issue is that because the legends are so specialized into their respective areas, that you will spend the most time in one form (and if you don’t have the insta-swap GM trait, there is usually little reason to go to your other Legend as their are only a handful of situational reasons why you would switch).

And if you haven’t noticed, healing skills are now tied to the same cooldown (the primary reason to switch beforehand in combat).

Another huge downfall of Legends is that you lose the effects of the previous Legend (utilities end) as soon as you swap. The interesting gameplay/skill level that could be achieved if Elites/Utilities lingered after swap (for the same energy cost) after switching is completely lost.


IMO, after a couple of hours per weapon/legend testing/trait testing, here’s my main concerns with Revenant:

1. Lack of mobility. All Heavy classes that rely on primarily melee focus have several forms of combat closing mobility on melee weapons on very short cooldowns.
(i.e. Staff with 5 or Axe with 4 are great. The problem is their cooldowns. In PvE it’s OK but not ideal. In PvP/WvW, forget it. Revenants are way underpowered. And they have -0- escape options. It’s Guardian/Necro without the activate defensive options.)

2. The DPS is lacking. Only the spike from Staff 5 is of any real value in PvP. And to line that up is unbelievably difficult to get it’s full value. In PvE, it’s nigh broken and reminds me of Beta Hundred Blades Warrior.
2.5 Staff 5 should be swapped with Staff 2, cooldown reduced and hits reduced to like 5. This would add mobility to the weapon (needed) but not turn it into so OP ability. Staff 2 should be killed, it’s awful (maybe if the first Staff 2 was 1/4s activation, it would be usable and a small DPS increase).

3. I found the majority of the traits as either “got to take” because I use this weapon or am built for conditions or I use taunt or etc. The freedom is not their to take what you want for Rev. You need to choose how you intend to combat and then take the trait to supplement or don’t use it (i.e. Ventari tablet traits conflicting with build options like Staff … grrr)
3.5 Because of the “got to take” that trait, the gameplay is extremely simplistic. It’s actually a class with a lower skill floor than any other in game class by far. And the skill ceiling is also the lowest of any other class as well because of the lack of skills to use.

I honestly believe that the weapon abilities were not adjusted for the current damage output (read, condition damage) that other classes received in the update just a few weeks back. You would think a melee weapon that applies condition damage would be built around soft/hard CC (cripple, chill, immobilize) and apply it rapidly since you know, targets move, but that is not how the Mace is currently built. And the Mace ‘3’ Leap is far too short.

Another huge missed opportunity for Revenant is Energy creation traits/mechanics such as the most basic which would be autoattack ‘1’ on every weapon generates Energy. But you could go further like, vary up your Utilities and gain greater Energy discounts, etc. type traits.

Generally, all of the Rev heals are underwhelming. Their main purpose is condition removal honestly and in that respect it’s fine. I was a proponent of leaving them as is when you could swap Legends and use the other heal right away. But now that heals share the same cooldown, all of the heal skills need to be brought up in strength.

(edited by Artaz.3819)

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Posted by: Iason Evan.3806

Iason Evan.3806

The point was that Staff with Ventari maximizes the healing/support role that has been given to the Rev and that the current loot system doesn’t support that role.

+1. Could not have put it any better. The devs don’t get this at all. I think a lot of that stems from design being made for PvP and not thinking about how PvE would work with it big picture.

ArenaNet: Skill splits. I have been asking for it for 3 years. It’s time. It’s past time. Stop making weapons and skills useless in PvE because WvW and PvP would break. Split skills for PvE so that skills in PvE are fun and viable.

Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: MattyP.6954

MattyP.6954

Look at Silverwastes. You don’t have to tag all of the enemies in an event, you just have to participate. Then you get the same reward as everyone else for completing the event. That is probably going to be how it will work for future content.

That being said, I don’t think that there will ever be a “pure healz” build where you never have to touch an enemy, nor should there be. Every class and role will have to do some damage—playing support/healing is just about sacrificing some of that damage in order to help your friends.

Server — Fort Aspenwood
Mains — Mathias of the Wood [Ranger]; Collaborator Bluatt [Engineer]
Alts — Necromancer, Warrior, Elementalist

Big Ventari/Staff Concern

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Posted by: Quiznos.4296

Quiznos.4296

This isn’t only a concern for staff/ventari revs, but something I’ve been facing for years as a primarily heals/support guardian.

Support/heals build aren’t rewarding in terms of loot.
most of the time they aren’t even appreciated in party situations; so the old pooling of party loot (as managed by the players) is out.

The exception being PvP thanks to reward tracks.

Unfortunately the “down with the trinity” attitude present in gw2 means dps is king. I hope a net compensates healers/support builds fairly and don’t understand why they’d introduce a profession that’s so support heavy without it…

Who knows what HoT will bring?

If you’re playing support guardian, you should be plunking symbols right in the middle of everything anyways. You should never have any problems with getting tags.

~~~

IN GENERAL

Short version: You’re carrying 2 different legends, switch them the way you’d switch a weapon. That’s how the system is set up.

Sorry, I didn’t mean tags was the issue, range is (soon to be fixed by LB?) But more so when it comes to event “participation ratings,” which from my understanding is damage based.

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Posted by: Kal Spiro.9745

Kal Spiro.9745

And I can’t let all this melee staff talk go without pointing out that a polearm weapon type with actual purpose-built polearm skins would have looked 1,000,001% better. The stance and moves all scream polearms, and cry bloody rivers for being wasted on staff skins.

Skill 5 looks sick with a scythe style skin like Final Rest

Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker

(edited by Kal Spiro.9745)

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Posted by: CorrynnStarr.7942

CorrynnStarr.7942

bad thing about staff is no real sustainable damage. Even though skill 5 can rip thru trash mobs, its a single hit on anything vet or higher due to every vet or higher mob having resistance to knockback. so what ends up happening is, you pass right thru the mob with only a single hit registering. weapon is only good for trash… that’s it.

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Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

Big Ventari/Staff Concern

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Posted by: MattyP.6954

MattyP.6954

Server — Fort Aspenwood
Mains — Mathias of the Wood [Ranger]; Collaborator Bluatt [Engineer]
Alts — Necromancer, Warrior, Elementalist

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Posted by: Ignavia.7420

Ignavia.7420

I think if you are healing the guys, who are killing a mob, you should get credit for the kill.

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Posted by: hazenvirus.8154

hazenvirus.8154

I think if you are healing the guys, who are killing a mob, you should get credit for the kill.

Then people could be even lazier on world bosses than they are now. Just go water attunment on a ele and let soothing mist get them credit while they afk.

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Posted by: Kaiser.9873

Kaiser.9873

I think if you are healing the guys, who are killing a mob, you should get credit for the kill.

Then people could be even lazier on world bosses than they are now. Just go water attunment on a ele and let soothing mist get them credit while they afk.

Or they could make staff #1 in ventlegend deal out healing like staff#1 for ele when attuned to water. I’d be okay if they did that, because the sustain you would provide in a zerg situation would offset your horrifyingly bad DPS.