Guild Wars 2

the newest Wyvern video link (Boss battle 18min )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXkD-vrUawo

I think , that the boss is still too easy.

suggestion
Boss must have 2 phases , normal and violent.
higher damage ,higher speed, new attack mode in violent phase.
After the defiance bar is fully depleted and the creature becomes broken, boss will become violent.

maybe it’s not supposed to be that hard? compare it to any other boss except for Teq and TT and it’s still harder, so I don’t see a problem, not every boss is supposed to be super hard imo…

My only worry would be how long this battle would take with a smaller number of people: i.e., when action in the zone dies down.

To be fair it is quite unlikely that they would add a super-hard boss to a demo.

Considering this boss is a 5 man instance most likely, it’s not easy.
It seems like you need lots of masteries in order to fight this boss, otherwise you would be constantly blown down, and the boss will fly up sky 24/7.

Also you don’t even know the requirement of CC to stun this boss, could be really really high though. The trailer doesn’t show anything other than they got pwned by the Wyvern.

Aomine.5012:

Considering this boss is a 5 man instance most likely, it’s not easy.
It seems like you need lots of masteries in order to fight this boss, otherwise you would be constantly blown down, and the boss will fly up sky 24/7.

Also you don’t even know the requirement of CC to stun this boss, could be really really high though. The trailer doesn’t show anything other than they got pwned by the Wyvern.

How did you end with a conclusion that the wyvern is an instanced boss? There are videos with more people than 5 fighting simultaneously.

I imagine everything seen in the demo is still subject to change, they probably have a lot of balancing to do. And since it seems like wyverns are going to be a recurring fight, it could just be that as the first one you encounter, it’s the easiest of them all.

So, just to be clear, you’re complaining that a new boss that isn’t in the game yet and whom you haven’t fought yet is too easy? All you have to go on is a single video with players of a largely unknown skill level.

Going by that logic all these PVP tournaments are the easiest thing in the game.

So it’s not instanced, officially dehyped. Anything openworld ends up being too easy what do you expect, it’s just a numbers game.

Looks fine to me. Plenty of dead people around and I recognise quite a few of the names of the players: they’re a lot of WvW and PvP streamers so I reckon they’re quite skilled.

My worst fear : I don’t see the wyvern performing melee attacks. In the end lots of dudes will end up attacking at melee range in the double damage zone and will just dodge through the wyvern when it breathes or flaps the wings.

Tequatl and the TT wurm have mechanisms to prevent that : the shockwaves and the invulnerability respectively.

It’s important Anet makes meleeing the wyvern very dangerous. Otherwise this will just be an other HP bag that’s gonna be torn to pièces in no time.

Also make the fire zones on the ground last longer, on such a large platfroms (yes I know there will be smaller ones as well), they do not have a significant impact.

don´t worry, as soon as the content is available, you will have enough people in here declaring how this boss is totally unbeatable, though it is not hard, of cause, it just haves some unfair/gimmicky/annyoing mechanic :P

Algreg.3629:

don´t worry, as soon as the content is available, you will have enough people in here declaring how this boss is totally unbeatable, though it is not hard, of cause, it just haves some unfair/gimmicky/annyoing mechanic :P

Oh of course I’m expecting qq from the entitled crowd. Yet after having my share of tequatl runs and TT on a lesser extend, I can see what makes a boss dangerous and what does not.

With this wyvern, I saw lots of attacks threatening people in FRONT of the wyvern but not so much threatening people on its back. I saw no tail swipe, back breath or claw attack. That means that the safest position to take down the wyvern is melle on the back. As soon as it turns around, just dodge and here you go. I’ll feel safer if the wyvern had some sort of security to make meleeing more risky.

Or we’ll end up with this but with 100 players instead of one.

well, after rewatching the trailer, I find it more annyoing how Pumpin Emo, AnimeEye and the Sisters Diversity apparently are still the center of attention storywise.

Aretak.3826:

So it’s not instanced, officially dehyped. Anything openworld ends up being too easy what do you expect, it’s just a numbers game.

We do not know if all of the fights will be open world actually. They have made a point of the fact that there are multiple of them which also suggest that there will be many fights against them.

As for anything open world being too easy, I assume you have never done Triple Trouble Wurm?

VodCom.6924:

My worst fear : I don’t see the wyvern performing melee attacks. In the end lots of dudes will end up attacking at melee range in the double damage zone and will just dodge through the wyvern when it breathes or flaps the wings.

Tequatl and the TT wurm have mechanisms to prevent that : the shockwaves and the invulnerability respectively.

It’s important Anet makes meleeing the wyvern very dangerous. Otherwise this will just be an other HP bag that’s gonna be torn to pièces in no time.

Also make the fire zones on the ground last longer, on such a large platfroms (yes I know there will be smaller ones as well), they do not have a significant impact.

Shame that some professions have the highest dps specs that are not melee.

rotten.9753:

Shame that some professions have the highest dps specs that are not melee.

Let me guess ? Elementalist and rangers ? Yeah, they have nice dps somehow. If you are using a staff build, you’ll rely on others to blast your fire fields to get to 25 might stacks. Rangers don’t have enough blasts for this unfortunately. In the end you’ll hang in melee with the big guys like you do in GW2 vanilla.

And most discussions on who’s having the highest dps spec on world bosses is mostly theory and speculation anyway.

VodCom.6924:

Let me guess ? Elementalist and rangers ? Yeah, they have nice dps somehow. If you are using a staff build, you’ll rely on others to blast your fire fields to get to 25 might stacks. Rangers don’t have enough blasts for this unfortunately. In the end you’ll hang in melee with the big guys like you do in GW2 vanilla.

And most discussions on who’s having the highest dps spec on world bosses is mostly theory and speculation anyway.

Not exactly. There is a popular team comp with a phalanx warrior and 2 staff eles. That allows eles to stay 600 range away from a boss making it quite safe and very effective.

1) How can you judge it’s too easy when you haven’t tried it? Let’s get a few more opinions from those that attend the events coming up, since this boss is a part of the 40 minute demo.

2) Several of people that attended the recent press event have commented that they considered it challenging. That it was more than a stand and spam 1 type of fight. Since they actually got a chance to fight it (vs just watching it and making assumptions), I’m going to take their opinion into consideration.

3) The comment has been made that this boss is merely the tip of the iceberg.

Personally, given all of that, I’m going to reserve judgement until I can beat on the thing myself. But that’s just my 2c

This isn’t a world boss, also there will be other wyvern fight (so far we know that the platforms will be getting smaller but I imagine their would also be other mechanical changes). So it being easy isn’t really a problem since it doesn’t seem like it was meant to be difficult group content.

CureForLiving.5360:

This isn’t a world boss, also there will be other wyvern fight (so far we know that the platforms will be getting smaller but I imagine their would also be other mechanical changes). So it being easy isn’t really a problem since it doesn’t seem like it was meant to be difficult group content.

Challenging group content they said, none of it should be easy if they don’t want us to finish fast and asked ourselves what next without thinking of doing it again because it was so easy like Colin said as well. What’s the argument or excuse for easy pve anywhere?? There is no open pvp in pve or gear grind for pvp… Even the most casual of casuals can’t disagree on that.

VodCom.6924:

Algreg.3629:

don´t worry, as soon as the content is available, you will have enough people in here declaring how this boss is totally unbeatable, though it is not hard, of cause, it just haves some unfair/gimmicky/annyoing mechanic :P

Oh of course I’m expecting qq from the entitled crowd. Yet after having my share of tequatl runs and TT on a lesser extend, I can see what makes a boss dangerous and what does not.

With this wyvern, I saw lots of attacks threatening people in FRONT of the wyvern but not so much threatening people on its back. I saw no tail swipe, back breath or claw attack. That means that the safest position to take down the wyvern is melle on the back. As soon as it turns around, just dodge and here you go. I’ll feel safer if the wyvern had some sort of security to make meleeing more risky.

Or we’ll end up with this but with 100 players instead of one.

Sounds like they need to pull some tricks with it, like how some of the bosses do in FFXIV. The front is the most dangerous side of the boss? So you think, but if you stay behind it too long a fast AoE will come your way that does massive damage. Oh you think the sides are fine? It’s normal attack cleaves all over those sides so people there will get hit. Oh you think range will help you? Say hello to multiple AoE fields and long range circle AoE attacks!

Didn’t WoodenPotatoes say in his coverage of the fight that, while it was disappointing to him, was also the “easy mode” version as said by the devs? There’s supposedly going to be different configurations of the fight itself.

Still not the easiest wyvern fight I’ve seen

Louis.7914:

the newest Wyvern video link (Boss battle 18min )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXkD-vrUawo

I think , that the boss is still too easy.

suggestion
Boss must have 2 phases , normal and violent.
higher damage ,higher speed, new attack mode in violent phase.
After the defiance bar is fully depleted and the creature becomes broken, boss will become violent.

It’s just a minor boss. It’s not supposed to be hard. The dev stated in the stream this should be a 5 man event.

There is a mastery for pulling wyverns from the sky to hunt them for loot. There was also an earlier intro to the new Defiance mechanic which said that wyverns had a break bar that needed to be spiked down to prevent them taking off and carpet bombing the entire place. I’d say there would be enough challenge to keep people relishing a new challenge occupied and the QQ crowd be told to l2p

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Still not the easiest wyvern fight I’ve seen

The nightmares of that game. It was Dark Souls before Dark Souls. The bonecrushing difficulty of Vagrant Story is legendary, where you had to master all systems to have a good chance of survival…save for the final boss, Mr. “I’ll only take 1 damage from everything”. <_<

RyuDragnier.9476:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Still not the easiest wyvern fight I’ve seen

The nightmares of that game. It was Dark Souls before Dark Souls. The bonecrushing difficulty of Vagrant Story is legendary, where you had to master all systems to have a good chance of survival…save for the final boss, Mr. “I’ll only take 1 damage from everything”. <_<

I don’t know what you were doing, I was doing at least double digits reliably. The problem was how slim a timing window you had while you could actually swing versus how often he would attack.

Oh, and how to dispose of Risk before “Bloody Sin” launched.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Still not the easiest wyvern fight I’ve seen

The nightmares of that game. It was Dark Souls before Dark Souls. The bonecrushing difficulty of Vagrant Story is legendary, where you had to master all systems to have a good chance of survival…save for the final boss, Mr. “I’ll only take 1 damage from everything”. <_<

I don’t know what you were doing, I was doing at least double digits reliably. The problem was how slim a timing window you had while you could actually swing versus how often he would attack.

Oh, and how to dispose of Risk before “Bloody Sin” launched.

It’s been a few years since I played, I don’t think I ever mastered the crafting system. I know for a fact a good blade would have let me get through that fight easily, a shame I didn’t have one. :/

The crafting system in that game was both the best and worst part of the gear.

Too bad this is veering off topic.

By the way, I’m still watching some of the clips and seeing stills and going: “Rathian and Rathalos are somewhere laughing at this noob.”

its simple to make the wyvern fight hard, for open world at least. for instanced pve stuff its simply not complex enough.

1. make each fire tick deal enough damage so a player dies after eating 2 hits.
makes it so player positioning matters alot more than it does currently.
2. if you fall off the platform you will die. no chance to fly around and land on the platform again.
3. no waypoint. dead means dead.
4. more fire on the ground that has to be dodged.
5. add an enrage timer, make it so that fire takes over more and more of the platform the longer the fight goes, so players are forced to interrupt every single time correctly to be able to deal enough dps to the boss before enrage hits and use offensive gear instead of nomads + halfway decent rotations at least to meet the dps requirement.
at the same time this makes it harder for players to survive and put pressure on players because they dont have to focus only on one thing (do good rotation or survive) but on both at the same time.

the wyvern fight is a step forward. it just needs better tuning. for an open world fight it will be good, better than what we currently have and it looks cool, so good job anet.
for instanced pve content its still far from what would be halfway difficult.

Algreg.3629:

don´t worry, as soon as the content is available, you will have enough people in here declaring how this boss is totally unbeatable, though it is not hard, of cause, it just haves some unfair/gimmicky/annyoing mechanic :P

And a month later it will be part of the regular gw2timer rotation and never fail again.

NoTrigger.8396:

its simple to make the wyvern fight hard, for open world at least. for instanced pve stuff its simply not complex enough.

1. make each fire tick deal enough damage so a player dies after eating 2 hits.
makes it so player positioning matters alot more than it does currently.
2. if you fall off the platform you will die. no chance to fly around and land on the platform again.
3. no waypoint. dead means dead.
4. more fire on the ground that has to be dodged.
5. add an enrage timer, make it so that fire takes over more and more of the platform the longer the fight goes, so players are forced to interrupt every single time correctly to be able to deal enough dps to the boss before enrage hits and use offensive gear instead of nomads + halfway decent rotations at least to meet the dps requirement.
at the same time this makes it harder for players to survive and put pressure on players because they dont have to focus only on one thing (do good rotation or survive) but on both at the same time.

the wyvern fight is a step forward. it just needs better tuning. for an open world fight it will be good, better than what we currently have and it looks cool, so good job anet.
for instanced pve content its still far from what would be halfway difficult.

Sorry Sir, but you do not have not a single clue about good game design. Making a Boss difficult by giving him cheesy stuff 1.000.000.000 HP or make him oneshot everything is BAD gamedesign, and should never be used. The “no revive policy” works in dungeons, but not in Open World, as those bosses usually take longer than dungeon bosses and having people lying on the ground for 10+ minutes would just kitten them off. Enrage-Timer… whatever, but what you mean is a simple statboost or something that makes him unkillable, so again, bad idea. Also if you would actually read/listen to what the devs said, that Wyvern was Easy-Mode-Wyvern intended for “5 players”. There are a lot more and way more difficult Wyverns. Maybe even some you have no chance of defeating without getting an appropriate mastery first.

i didnt talk about stat boost. i didnt talk about giving him 10000000000000hp and i didnt talk about make him oneshot everything.
and i have seen the best pve encounter design a game ever had in another MMO.

now, ask yourself why open world bosses usually take longer than dungeon bosses.

first of all, dungeon bosses are a joke.
secondly, if the majority of the people in the open world used decent builds you wouldnt have results like that:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Still-no-mention-of-dungeons/first#post4773430

now, read my post again. i even described how an enrage timer for that fight could look like. fire takes over more and more parts of the platform the longer the fight takes until no safe area is left. thats an enrage timer. where exactly is the stat boost now?

and you know what my suggestions would do? right, teach people how to play, force them not to lie dead on the ground, force them to do the mechanics and give them no possibility to ignore them.

one mechanic in this fight is to interrupt the boss and deal bonus damage to him.
you know what the enrage timer would do? force people to actually interrupt him and force people to deal bonus damage to him, the way its intended.
and if you fail to do this mechanic, its a very simple one, you shouldnt be able to kill the boss.

and yes, i know that the devs said the wyvern isnt the super challenging content that they were talking about. all i did was give examples how to make this fight harder, regardless of what this fight is meant for.

keep in mind that this is the “first” fight against the Wyvern. Anet has said that we will fight him on several different areas (tops of cliffs), and that the fight gets harder when the area gets smaller.

in other words, this is the HoT “newb-island” encounter, not the “endgame” encounter.

I think that WP stated that this encounter is still in testing and will be made harder, hoverer boss encounters may not be “hard” because you can respawn on wipe, the solution is more mechanics and technically challenging encounters not just longer fights.

NoTrigger.8396:

i didnt talk about stat boost. i didnt talk about giving him 10000000000000hp and i didnt talk about make him oneshot everything.
and i have seen the best pve encounter design a game ever had in another MMO.

now, ask yourself why open world bosses usually take longer than dungeon bosses.

first of all, dungeon bosses are a joke.
secondly, if the majority of the people in the open world used decent builds you wouldnt have results like that:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Still-no-mention-of-dungeons/first#post4773430

now, read my post again. i even described how an enrage timer for that fight could look like. fire takes over more and more parts of the platform the longer the fight takes until no safe area is left. thats an enrage timer. where exactly is the stat boost now?

and you know what my suggestions would do? right, teach people how to play, force them not to lie dead on the ground, force them to do the mechanics and give them no possibility to ignore them.

one mechanic in this fight is to interrupt the boss and deal bonus damage to him.
you know what the enrage timer would do? force people to actually interrupt him and force people to deal bonus damage to him, the way its intended.
and if you fail to do this mechanic, its a very simple one, you shouldnt be able to kill the boss.

and yes, i know that the devs said the wyvern isnt the super challenging content that they were talking about. all i did was give examples how to make this fight harder, regardless of what this fight is meant for.

“make his ground targeted AE’s twoshot players” → ignoring he can create a big anough firefield that you cannot get out of it as a melee within 2 ticks.

“Make falling off the platform → dead, no revival possible” → oneshot mechanic that severly hurts classes like Necros that cannot self stack stability high enough to block all of the gust, making players lie around dead for 10 minutes+

Thats both “Oneshot mechanics” in my book. And you said “rage mode so they have to beat it before rage timer ticks downb” , implying beating it after rage-timer should be impossible. Sorry Sir, try better next time.

you didnt answer where i talked about a stat boost or 1000000000000000000000000000000000000hp

Shiki.7148:

“make his ground targeted AE’s twoshot players” -> ignoring he can create a big anough firefield that you cannot get out of it as a melee within 2 ticks.

im not ignoring that you have enough time and possibilities to avoid getting hit.

Shiki.7148:

“Make falling off the platform -> dead, no revival possible” -> oneshot mechanic that severly hurts classes like Necros that cannot self stack stability high enough to block all of the gust, making players lie around dead for 10 minutes+

im not ignoring, that teamplay should be enforced and someone else can buff stability for a necro. thats how it should work. fighting solo alongside 150 zombies and mindlessly spamming skills shouldnt work.

Shiki.7148:

And you said “rage mode so they have to beat it before rage timer ticks downb” , implying beating it after rage-timer should be impossible. Sorry Sir, try better next time.

yes, im saying beating it after you failed to beat it should not be possible.

I don’t think this particular Wyvern fight is meant to be complex or even tough. It’s the first mini boss in the first outpost in the first zone of the expansion. It’s meant to introduce us to concepts like the break bar and basic Wyvern flight/fire attacks.

One thing ArenaNet is getting really good at is teaching the community as a whole. We saw this in both Drytop and Silverwastes where, during the first week of each, we struggled a little and, now, groups rarely have issues with either (granted the map gets the numbers). We also saw the same thing with Tequatl and Triple Threat.

I see this fight in the same light. It is just the beginning – meant to ease us into the new zone and let us practice against the more simplistic mechanics before engaging the Mecha-Wyvern with even more ways to kill us.

I fully expect fights deeper into the jungle to be more complex and engaging (even other Wyverns).

MaXi.3642:

maybe it’s not supposed to be that hard? compare it to any other boss except for Teq and TT and it’s still harder, so I don’t see a problem, not every boss is supposed to be super hard imo…

That’s like walking into 1st Grade and saying the curriculum is hard compared to Kindergarten.

oh lord here we go, expansion hasn’t even been in beta testing yet and we’re already seeing these posts. I swear people won’t be happy until they are single handedly soloing 5 bosses and there’d still be one guy who comes on here and posts about how leet he is and how even that’s not hard enough.

NoTrigger.8396:

its simple to make the wyvern fight hard, for open world at least. for instanced pve stuff its simply not complex enough.

1. make each fire tick deal enough damage so a player dies after eating 2 hits.
makes it so player positioning matters alot more than it does currently.
2. if you fall off the platform you will die. no chance to fly around and land on the platform again.
3. no waypoint. dead means dead.
4. more fire on the ground that has to be dodged.
5. add an enrage timer, make it so that fire takes over more and more of the platform the longer the fight goes, so players are forced to interrupt every single time correctly to be able to deal enough dps to the boss before enrage hits and use offensive gear instead of nomads + halfway decent rotations at least to meet the dps requirement.
at the same time this makes it harder for players to survive and put pressure on players because they dont have to focus only on one thing (do good rotation or survive) but on both at the same time.

the wyvern fight is a step forward. it just needs better tuning. for an open world fight it will be good, better than what we currently have and it looks cool, so good job anet.
for instanced pve content its still far from what would be halfway difficult.

Here is my opinion on your ideas listed about:
1) Make 1-2 shot mechanics is a bad cope out for making “challenging content.” Challenging content in this game should be done through boss mechanics. The nice thing about Guild Wars engine and mechanics means that they can do is. Lets look at the hardest world boss in the game right now, Wurm. Wurm does not 1 shot people unless you are standing on husk spawns. In fact, you should very rarely die at wurm (even in the first weeks of its release). The difficulty in wurm comes from the amount of coordination required to complete it and making sure people actually know what they are doing. This is what challenging world bosses should be.
2) I am more relaxed on this one even if it still a 1 shot mechanic, it still a better mechanic then point 1 you made. Still though, I rather not see it.
3) This one I can understand, but it would make a lot of people angry when they die. A better idea is to add a cooldown timer to when you can waypoint. After a period of time, then the game lets you waypoint. An even better idea is to add the Battlefield ticket system to world bosses. The boss has an X amount of tickets and every time someone dies (or leaves the fight) and waypoints away, 1 ticket is lost and when the amount of tickets hits zeroes the boss leaves the fight and the players lose.
4) Yes, the classic add more kitten to the fight to make it harder. I disagree completely.
5) Enrage timers are another bad cope out done to scale the difficulty of something up. The problem becomes is that this encourages the zerker meta even more, and to just kill the boss as quickly as possible. Timers in general are one of the worst ways to make content hard. It screams “we could not come up with good ideas for fail mechanics for this fight, so take this timer instead.” I rather see a prolonged fight where good play/strategy is rewarded instead of “lets nuke it down in our zerker gear and ignore the mechanics completely.”

to 1)
it doesnt have to oneshot you. but it should be less forgiving

to 3)
your idea is actually better than mine for open world

to 5)
if you interrupt the wyvern correctly, you can deal bonus damage for a few seconds. this results in a faster kill time.
if you dont interrupt him you will need longer to kill him.
thats why an enrage timer should exist. it will force the players to do the mechanics correctly and it puts pressure on you.
if you can fight the boss for 30 min, np, just dont die, use nomads and dont pay attention at all.
if you have 5 minutes it will force you to survive, do a good rotation, take care of offensive and defensive buffs and do the mechanics correctly, like the interrupts, every single time.
an enrage timer determines the amount of errors you can make. thats why it is a good thing.

Yes the boss is too easy because it was weaken to allow the press to be able to beat the content.

colin on wooden potatoes.
/thread

silvermember.8941:

Yes the boss is too easy because it was weaken to allow the press to be able to beat the content.

colin on wooden potatoes.
/thread

I guess wait and see then.

Also, your signature is very true, especially in these times of HoT pseudo hype

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

By the way, I’m still watching some of the clips and seeing stills and going: “Rathian and Rathalos are somewhere laughing at this noob.”

i had to login just to say “kitten rathian”. all she does is run back and forth like an idiot, flail her tail to knock you down, and do the tail backflip attack to poison you. she’s obnoxious to fight against.

rathalos is cool though, especially now that he can break terrain with his attacks.

inb4wyvernmysogynist

#WyvernGate

BrunoBRS.5178:

#WyvernGate

#NotMySwordAnd Shield

. . . sorry, I had to. Incidentally, still think that is one of the cooler looking weapons I owned from Freedom Unite.

So, now that I’ve actually played the demo, this is a legitimate concern. The Wyvern is a cake walk.

A cluster of random people, all playing a class they’ve never done before were able to easily destroy the Wyvern, consistently, despite never once actually successfully breaking the break bar. It really wasn’t even hard.

Timing the break bar was a bit difficult, but since it really had no impact on the fight, ultimately, who cares?

Colin mentioned that this wyvern is the “baby version” of bosses in HoT.

Kal Spiro.9745:

So, now that I’ve actually played the demo, this is a legitimate concern. The Wyvern is a cake walk.

A cluster of random people, all playing a class they’ve never done before were able to easily destroy the Wyvern, consistently, despite never once actually successfully breaking the break bar. It really wasn’t even hard.

Timing the break bar was a bit difficult, but since it really had no impact on the fight, ultimately, who cares?

A single fight of multiple. That is almost guaranteed toned down quite a bit in order to now totally destroy everyone in the demos since they can’t use their own characters and it is timed.

I don’t really think it is fair to base the actual live game difficulty on that.