Guild Wars 2

Entitlement Thread ahead.

I bought the HoT expansion for new elite specs, that’s it. No other reason, all I want to do is continue playing PvP and WvW only, with new elite specs….

What annoys me, is that we are forced into earning these new elite specs… I don’t want to grind for it, I paid for it. I didn’t pay to grind specs, I paid FOR THE SPECS….

As someone who has way too many characters, how the hell am I supposed to be able to unlock all the elites for all of my toons?

Why so many toons? Well they’re all equipped with different gear for different situations for easy swaps, but all centered around WvW and PvP…

3 Guards – 1 mediguard, 1 zerger guard and 1 small group guard: With new system on EARNING THE STUPID ELITES THAT I PAID TO USE, I would have to earn Dragon Hunter 3 times just to get my 3 guards re-set up for easy swapping again…

Then I’ll have to do the same to my 4 mes, 3 necro and so on ……

I honestly thought buying the expansion meant skills would unlock, I must have missed the part prebeta weekends where they said you would have to earn it even after buying it, I feel mislead into the sale of HoT as a customer, it feels like this is important information needed from the start of HoT and not at the very last second after you have already taken my money. I’m almost tempted to speak to a friend of mine who could help me clear the air on this matter after researching misleading sales tactics

“No matter how a business communicates with you—whether it’s through advertising, packaging, online, logos, endorsements or a sales pitch—you have the right to receive accurate and truthful messages about the products and services you buy.” – There was none of this at all in regards to buying your expansion and elite specs, you dropped that bomb on us after you have made your sales…

Then there is also “It makes no difference whether the business intended to mislead you or not. If the overall impression left by a business’s advertisement, promotion, quotation, statement or other representation creates a misleading impression in your mind—such as to the price, value or the quality of any goods and services—then the behaviour is likely to breach the law.

For those unfamiliar with unfair sales tactics: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/misleading-claims-advertising/false-or-misleading-claims

/endrant

Can players/buyers of HoT atleast have an option on if we would like to grind elite specs? That way, people like myself who work and have family commitments can still enjoy the game for being a game and let us use our elites like everyone else, while those who enjoy grinding can go grind for it?

(just want to clear up that those links and quotes from unfair sales is not meant as grounds for legal action but it was more to prove my point in feeling mislead into the sale of HoT, sorry for that confusion)

7k hours in WvW + PvP
works and has family commitments

Consider this…

ANET has listed several “features” that won’t be ready at launch.
They sprang this busy work on us at the last moment.

I’ll leave it to others to draw conclusions.

I, too, bought the expansion for the Elite specs. I, too, am feeling misled. Kinda like in the early days, when ANET made a manifesto they then abandoned without a word.

Never again will I trust ANet. I likely will never buy any product in advance from them again. I’m looking for another game — not a rage quit, a disappointment quit.

Sytherek.7689:

Consider this…

ANET has listed several “features” that won’t be ready at launch.
They sprang this busy work on us at the last moment.

I’ll leave it to others to draw conclusions.

I, too, bought the expansion for the Elite specs. I, too, am feeling misled. Kinda like in the early days, when ANET made a manifesto they then abandoned without a word.

Never again will I trust ANet. I likely will never buy any product in advance from them again. I’m looking for another game — not a rage quit, a disappointment quit.

I’m right with you on this. And to think I actually considered taking off from work to play HoT. I’d rather be grinding for a paycheck than grinding to unlock skills on 17 toons. Utter BS. Thank God there are other games out there.

sephiroth.4217:

I paid for it. I didn’t pay to grind specs, I paid FOR THE SPECS….

Unfortunately this is not the case. You did in fact pay to grind the specs (if you still choose to pursue them).

One of the drawbacks of prepurchasing before all of the details have been released is that you have ceded control over what exactly you are buying to the merchant.

It was already known long ago that you would need to unlock the specs prior to that announcement of number of hero points.

The only thing unknown was the exact number of hero points. Datamining suggested it would be about 250 a while ago.

Sytherek.7689:

Consider this…

ANET has listed several “features” that won’t be ready at launch.
They sprang this busy work on us at the last moment.

I’ll leave it to others to draw conclusions.

I, too, bought the expansion for the Elite specs. I, too, am feeling misled. Kinda like in the early days, when ANET made a manifesto they then abandoned without a word.

Never again will I trust ANet. I likely will never buy any product in advance from them again. I’m looking for another game — not a rage quit, a disappointment quit.

Exactly, you were also mislead into buying HoT, which confirms

It makes no difference whether the business intended to mislead you or not. If the overall impression left by a business’s advertisement, promotion, quotation, statement or other representation creates a misleading impression in your mind—*such as to the price, value or the quality of any goods and services*—then the behaviour is likely to breach the law.

OP is in the exact same niche as I am, I don’t care about the new pve content at all, I play wvw,pvp, and fractals and don’t want to grind for hero points to play what I payed for. I can see them wanting people to play the content, but forcing us to do it is outrageous. I have less than 10 percent map completion on all my characters for a reason…

Arenanet, beware!

You pre-purchased a product that was “Subject to Change”. You knew full well when ordering the product before it was ready, that things could change during production.

This is a well known fact. The law won’t help you here. You made an investment into an unfinished product, that you knew was subject to change. Every product that is a WIP undergoes changes during production. You knew this when you purchased HoT, knowing that we wouldn’t get all the info up front and instead, it would be given over time as progress developed.

There was no misleading or false advertising. If you are unhappy with your purchase, get a refund. But don’t try to claim they are breaking the law, because they aren’t.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

You pre-purchased a product that was “Subject to Change”. You knew full well when ordering the product before it was ready, that things could change during production.

This is a well known fact. The law won’t help you here. You made an investment into an unfinished product, that you knew was subject to change. Every product that is a WIP undergoes changes during production. You knew this when you purchased HoT, knowing that we wouldn’t get all the info up front and instead, it would be given over time as progress developed.

There was no misleading or false advertising. If you are unhappy with your purchase, get a refund. But don’t try to claim they are breaking the law, because they aren’t.

ANET did not break the law.
I admit I was stupid to pre-purchase HoT. Thank fate I only bought it on my single account, and didn’t waste money on two others in the family. So I was only 1/3 stupid.

Sytherek.7689:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

You pre-purchased a product that was “Subject to Change”. You knew full well when ordering the product before it was ready, that things could change during production.

This is a well known fact. The law won’t help you here. You made an investment into an unfinished product, that you knew was subject to change. Every product that is a WIP undergoes changes during production. You knew this when you purchased HoT, knowing that we wouldn’t get all the info up front and instead, it would be given over time as progress developed.

There was no misleading or false advertising. If you are unhappy with your purchase, get a refund. But don’t try to claim they are breaking the law, because they aren’t.

ANET did not break the law.
I admit I was stupid to pre-purchase HoT. Thank fate I only bought it on my single account, and didn’t waste money on two others in the family. So I was only 1/3 stupid.

This, as angry as we may be, they broke no laws.

I just can’t believe the level of FALLOUT this is generating. ~ Cough~

Sytherek.7689:

Consider this…

ANET has listed several “features” that won’t be ready at launch.
They sprang this busy work on us at the last moment.

I’ll leave it to others to draw conclusions.

I, too, bought the expansion for the Elite specs. I, too, am feeling misled. Kinda like in the early days, when ANET made a manifesto they then abandoned without a word.

Never again will I trust ANet. I likely will never buy any product in advance from them again. I’m looking for another game — not a rage quit, a disappointment quit.

I am guessing how I came here was not unusual: I am part of a community around another game/virtual world. I am not the only one in our group who is dejected at this. When people leave somewhere they go where their friends are going so once one of us leaves GW2 …

Daddar.5971:

I just can’t believe the level of FALLOUT this is generating. Cough

Well for me, personally, I don’t care. I don’t mind working on all the elite specs on all my toons over time as I play through HoT. I already have enough to unlock half the spec, so I’m not too worried.

But I do get and understand why others are upset over it.

They wanted to go into the new content, already in their elite spec, so they could enjoy it all throughout HoT. Because, basically, since they have to wait till almost the end of HoT to fully unlock their elite spec, what was the point of it all if they never got to fully enjoy the elite spec during all that time? And depending on where these hero challenges are located, they might be locked behind closed off areas of the jungle. Then you’ll need to grind out Masteries in order to get access to those areas, just to get more hero challenges to unlock your elite spec.

So yeah, I get all the rage over it. For me, I don’t mind it all cause it gives me something to do. But I do completely understand where the other side is coming from and I respect that.

sephiroth.4217:

Entitlement Thread ahead.

Can players/buyers of HoT atleast have an option on if we would like to grind elite specs? That way, people like myself who work and have family commitments can still enjoy the game for being a game and let us use our elites like everyone else, while those who enjoy grinding can go grind for it?

I agree with you. There is a legion of players who agree with you. But regarding structured PvP you will have everything unlocked. You’ll have acces to the elite specs. For WvW you will have to earn it through hero points. If you play GW2 mostly for WvW yes you essentially bought an expansion that you will have to invest hundreds of hours in to be able to enjoy any new play mechanics.

Looking at it from a high level thei decision had to be made based on maximizing monetization of the cash shop. Forcing players to grind so they would have incentive to buy boost items in cash shop. Perhaps this is how they are paying for the F2P accounts by taking from the rest of us? I’m not sure but it seems that way

You have zero chance at suing them. In fact you can’t do that according to the term of use. Bottom line is it’s a product. You aren’t happy with it return it and I do imagine if you asked ArenaNet for a refund you could get them to do that, but I’m not sure.

It’s possible you could find some attorney out there will to take up a class action lawsuit and reference all the hours you put into it, but I honestly think it would never make it to court and even if it did you would not win because they haven’t broken any laws.

What they have done is conceal this vital piece of information until right before launch. A big “surprise suprise casual players, but HoT isn’t designed for you…”. I see it as an unethical decision on their part, but as players we have options. One of those is to just walk away. I’ve decided to just focus on the PvP side of the game since that’s where all the fun is anyway.

deadlift.7681:

7k hours in WvW + PvP
works and has family commitments

Good for you

SamTheGuardian.2938:

sephiroth.4217:

Entitlement Thread ahead.

Can players/buyers of HoT atleast have an option on if we would like to grind elite specs? That way, people like myself who work and have family commitments can still enjoy the game for being a game and let us use our elites like everyone else, while those who enjoy grinding can go grind for it?

I agree with you. There is a legion of players who agree with you. But regarding structured PvP you will have everything unlocked. You’ll have acces to the elite specs. For WvW you will have to earn it through hero points. If you play GW2 mostly for WvW yes you essentially bought an expansion that you will have to invest hundreds of hours in to be able to enjoy any new play mechanics.

Looking at it from a high level thei decision had to be made based on maximizing monetization of the cash shop. Forcing players to grind so they would have incentive to buy boost items in cash shop. Perhaps this is how they are paying for the F2P accounts by taking from the rest of us? I’m not sure but it seems that way

You have zero chance at suing them. In fact you can’t do that according to the term of use. Bottom line is it’s a product. You aren’t happy with it return it and I do imagine if you asked ArenaNet for a refund you could get them to do that, but I’m not sure.

It’s possible you could find some attorney out there will to take up a class action lawsuit and reference all the hours you put into it, but I honestly think it would never make it to court and even if it did you would not win because they haven’t broken any laws.

What they have done is conceal this vital piece of information until right before launch. A big “surprise suprise casual players, but HoT isn’t designed for you…”. I see it as an unethical decision on their part, but as players we have options. One of those is to just walk away. I’ve decided to just focus on the PvP side of the game since that’s where all the fun is anyway.

Aye my quotes weren’t meant for legal grounds, it was just help prove my point on misleading information to make a sale, as you said What they have done is conceal this vital piece of information until right before launch., this is what I’m angry about. It’s only coincidence that it fits into the role of unfair marketing tactics..

From the very announcement of the expansion they referred to the mastery and elite specializations as progression systems. If you are somehow surprised that you have to do things in game to progress your character, you should buy a dictionary as you don’t know what progression means.

Oh no. I bought this game called guild wars and my new character started at level 1 instead of 80.

Really guys. You’ve paid for the expansion of a game to get even more of a great game. If you think that having to play the game to get content unlocked is unfair i read that they deva have bucket to collect your tears.

You didn’t pay for the specs you paid for HoT and HoT includes a way to get specs – so now you need to go do that.

You don’t get to define what you paid for, imagine I wrote “I paid for the new legendaries, I don’t want to grind for them.” <- you can see how stupid it is.

Sully.9453:

Oh no. I bought this game called guild wars and my new character started at level 1 instead of 80.

Really guys. You’ve paid for the expansion of a game to get even more of a great game. If you think that having to play the game to get content unlocked is unfair i read that they deva have bucket to collect your tears.

Core mechanics are not content. Content is places to explore and adventures to have, not artificial grinding.

Coulter.2315:

You didn’t pay for the specs you paid for HoT and HoT includes a way to get specs – so now you need to go do that.

You don’t get to define what you paid for, imagine I wrote “I paid for the new legendaries, I don’t want to grind for them.” <- you can see how stupid it is.

If I pre-purchase an electric car, and the manufacturer sends me a gas vehicle, I think I have a right to be annoyed.

Had ANet told me I’d have to grind for the new specs, I wouldnt have bought the expansion. Which explains why they said nothing about the grind until 3 days before release.

A legendary is not required to fully play my characters. To me, a spec is a fundamental part of a character that affects how it plays. A legendary is cosmetic having no affect on gameplay.

I wonder what this all means for the gem store?

Again, I will never pre-purchase a product from ANET again.

Again, they always described it as a progression system. If you didn’t expect to have to unlock your skills and traits (like you had to for your core skills and traits), what method of progression did you expect to unlock the new skills and traits? And don’t tell me you envisioned paying $50 and talking to an NCP as a form of progression.

They described the new framework for unlocking skills and traits via HP as a new progression system, which they stated would and could be gained from just leveling up. Separately, they also stated that masteries would also be another progression system for those interested in PvE to explore more of the world in more interesting or convenient way, or get access to other features.

Nowhere did they say elite specs were going to be a supplementary progression system on top of the existing specialization system that requires the full unlock of all existing specializations to gain access to.

I’m just really hoping I enjoy Heart of Thorns. I have been so excited about it for a year now. But the last minute, they dumped the worst news on us. They had to know that this would be crushing to their playerbase. I’ve been reading posts for months of people begging to be able to just play the elite specs without having to invest time into earning them on each and every toon.

This is not “oh noes I’m level 1 now” this is like buying a diablo expansion and finding out that the new class has to be unlocked by hours of grinding. I knew that there would be some investment, but this 400 mastery points investment is huge. It really kittenes me off too, because I explored tyria on several toons to be ready for this xpac. That was soul crushingly dull to do again and again and I was glad to be done. Now I find out that not only do I need to do it again (many times over) but the mastery points from maguuma are 10 times more efficient than the way I did it. So I spent countless hours doing a really boring grind for almost no reason.

Too bad, deal with it, dat entitlement is making you selfish towards those others who are going to work at EARNING their points, this isnt some p2w game

No you didn’t pay to have elite specs fully unlocked, no one ever said they would be, do you also think you paid to have the 4 maps unlocked and all completed also? your logic is fail.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Looking at it from a high level thei decision had to be made based on maximizing monetization of the cash shop. Forcing players to grind so they would have incentive to buy boost items in cash shop. Perhaps this is how they are paying for the F2P accounts by taking from the rest of us? I’m not sure but it seems that way

How would boosts help you exactly? Unless there’s a boost I’m missing that doubles or triples the amount of Hero Points you acquire from a skill challenge, there’s nothing in the cash shop that will help with unlocking the elite specs.

OP: No, it’s not false advertising. They said when they introduced the new specialization system- back in April, might I add – that Elite specs would be using the same system to unlock the skills, traits and cosmetics.

They never said you could unlock it completly the minute you start playing HoT, those where wrong expectations from data mining. Also you don’t need 400 hero points, expect 250 for all skills and traits and the last 150 for the weapon and armor skin

Miellyn.6847:

They never said you could unlock it completly the minute you start playing HoT, those where wrong expectations from data mining. Also you don’t need 400 hero points, expect 250 for all skills and traits and the last 150 for the weapon and armor skin

Except that is just speculation. There is nothing that says it will be like that. For all we know, the traits, skills, skins, etc could be mashed together into the spec. Meaning for 60 points, you unlock it. Then 10 points you get your first trait. 10 points your first skill, 10 points your first skin, then rinse and repeat back to 10 for your second trait.

It could all be jumbled together so we have to actually get 400 hero points. We don’t know.

So please don’t, as sensitive as this topic already is, don’t give people false hope with speculations. It’s just fuel to the flames. It could only be 200 to get just your traits and skills, and then all skins at the end. Or they could all be jumbled and we need all 400 to get all our traits and skills. We don’t know. All we can do is wait and see.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Miellyn.6847:

They never said you could unlock it completly the minute you start playing HoT, those where wrong expectations from data mining. Also you don’t need 400 hero points, expect 250 for all skills and traits and the last 150 for the weapon and armor skin

Except that is just speculation. There is nothing that says it will be like that. For all we know, the traits, skills, skins, etc could be mashed together into the spec. Meaning for 60 points, you unlock it. Then 10 points you get your first trait. 10 points your first skill, 10 points your first skin, then rinse and repeat back to 10 for your second trait.

It could all be jumbled together so we have to actually get 400 hero points. We don’t know.

So please don’t, as sensitive as this topic already is, don’t give people false hope with speculations. It’s just fuel to the flames. It could only be 200 to get just your traits and skills, and then all skins at the end. Or they could all be jumbled and we need all 400 to get all our traits and skills. We don’t know. All we can do is wait and see.

There was a picture out which shows the weapon and armor as the last unlocks and i don’t think that they changed it