Can we have something like this?
Compare with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_of_the_Dragon and you will know what I mean.
Which part of shadow’s fight is impressive or unique?
Which part of shadow’s fight is impressive or unique?
Nothing of that, I was comparing shadow’s fight with LichKing fight.
(edited by klarkc.3754)
Yeah it sounds great when you read all the abilities, until you actually scroll down to the tactics portion, which are summed up thus.
1. Drag boss to certain spot at the edge of the map (sound familiar?)
2. Rotate through a group of tanks to keep the boss in that spot
3. Drag the boss to a spot in the middle of the map on the next phase and continue
4. Switch back to the original spot after the second phase ends
5. Tank damage, heal tanks, and DPS until you win.
Or in short, the exact same same tactic you use in every single encounter in every trinity based game, ever, just with more players and minor requirements about your position on the map.
Neither more boss mechanics nor more complicated boss mechanics create strategy or depth when there is a universal response to any enemy action. In WoW, that universal response was to tank and heal and DPS, in GW2, it’s to dodge and DPS. And more enemy mechanics mitigated by dodge and rewarding full DPS with shorter windows of play are not going to change or improve anything. The lack of strategy and diversity in GW2s encounters is a system problem on the player’s end that the developers seem to refuse to even acknowledge, let alone have any intention of addressing.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
@Conncept.7638
But you have to agree, the strategy needed in WoW is years ahead of general Guild Wars 2 situation. The truly is: it’s impossible to build a fight completely empty of “pre-made strategies”, but at least you can create scenario where, there is a few options instead of the pre-made strategy. Beyond that, to build a solid strategy (who turns a pre-made strategy), you need time, and a lots of attempts. That’s not exists here in Guild Wars 2, or at least, not like in WoW.
(edited by klarkc.3754)
Have you tried the Triple Trouble Wurm or the updated Tequatl?
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Have you tried the Triple Trouble Wurm or the updated Tequatl?
They are both very easy compared to WoW heroic raid bosses.
The only thing that makes them feel hard to some is the fact that its open world and you cannot pick the people you have with you. So you get a broad range from terrible players to good players. And people who afk/troll/leech.
One of my 30 accounts (Malediktus.9250).
Can we have something like this?
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189
1. Drag boss to certain spot at the edge of the map (sound familiar?)
2. Rotate through a group of tanks to keep the boss in that spot
3. Drag the boss to a spot in the middle of the map on the next phase and continue
4. Switch back to the original spot after the second phase ends
5. Tank damage, heal tanks, and DPS until you win.
Sounds like standard speed clear tactics to me. Except in GW2 there’s no specific tank and no specific healer.
Hell, reminds me of speed clearing in GW1 as well. E/Mo…heal heal heal….tank Dhuum. Blah
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
They are both very easy compared to WoW heroic raid bosses.
The only thing that makes them feel hard to some is the fact that its open world and you cannot pick the people you have with you. So you get a broad range from terrible players to good players. And people who afk/troll/leech.
I am talking about back before people learned the fights.
WoW Heroic Raid bosses are also rather easy when you know exactly what to do. Everything is.
Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square
This is not EASY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MQyH78aqT4 not at all. The sinergy in the group is a must have.
Ehhh I remember doing Lich King 10 man with my guild back in the day… tactics weren’t complicated they were just pointless drawn out, with little room for failure…. Back then I was doing ICC for 3-4 hours 2 or 3 time a week… which frankly was extremely casual compared to some other players. I don’t miss that kind thing
Have you tried the Triple Trouble Wurm or the updated Tequatl?
They are both very easy compared to WoW heroic raid bosses.
The only thing that makes them feel hard to some is the fact that its open world and you cannot pick the people you have with you. So you get a broad range from terrible players to good players. And people who afk/troll/leech.
Wat? I tried wow with a friend and it was a snore fest…seriously? All those plugin that tell you everything…blizzard actually built encounters knowing there will be plugins…
Tempest & Druid
Wat r u, casul?
Wat r u, casul?
Have you tried the Triple Trouble Wurm or the updated Tequatl?
They are both very easy compared to WoW heroic raid bosses.
The only thing that makes them feel hard to some is the fact that its open world and you cannot pick the people you have with you. So you get a broad range from terrible players to good players. And people who afk/troll/leech.Wat? I tried wow with a friend and it was a snore fest…seriously? All those plugin that tell you everything…blizzard actually built encounters knowing there will be plugins…
WoW encounters are the definition of rote. I’ll agree GW2 doesn’t have any really difficult encounters, but going the WoW way is not the way to go. I’d prefer a more dynamic encounter myself.
Honestly, I hope we don’t.
Current GW2 encounters hardly play to its combat system strengths. Importing encounters from a completely different system would achieve nothing but push it further from the state in which it could really shine.
On the other hand, there seems to be a lot of people trying to push the game towards a generic RPG game so I wouldn’t be surprised with fights like this one becoming an absolute success.
This is not EASY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MQyH78aqT4 not at all. The sinergy in the group is a must have.
You know it’s possible for people to program a bot to do top end raids right? There was actually trouble of bots running in the top 0.05% of PvP that Blizzard took them to court and won a case to where the most popular bot has to turn off during rated PvP because it’s considered a competitive sport; at least that’s what Blizzard claimed to win the case anyway.
If you want harder encounters you need to marry multiple games into one boss.
Take Some mechanics from Dark Souls, Legend of Zelda, marry them with some fighting tactics from Mortal Kombat ( basically gonna require an AI that can RNG combo’s so it’s never the same at the same exact time), Add size and tells from GW2 bosses, Instance it for 10-15 people like WoW.
Then make the rewards Large and Lush, because this boss will be one of the hardest in an MMO and if it’s gonna take 40 minutes for a boss We need 40 minutes worth of rewards. ( like this trick better give a guaranteed special weapon and 50g)
Or make another Liandri.
Actually the strategy of the fights like that is fairly low. Whats worse trinity based raid content can obscure a large number of fairly poor players, even in the top guilds, because certain roles require minimal amount of blood flow to the brain. Developing the original strategy by top end guilds usually requires a few initial runs to gauge the the possible strategies, after that it’s purely execution. That is making sure that healer #34 does not fall asleep and miss pressing heal button on the tank, and DPS #12 presses correct buttons in correct order to do maximum possible damage without drawing aggro.
Strategy in MMOs is limited by design. They are simply not strategy games. For raids the main difficulty is organization and having large number of people follow the strategy. For individual/group content organizational requirements are lower, but players don’t have raid leader coming up with strategy for them and need to do it themselves (at least early on, then it’s farm mode in either raids or groups). So you trade difficulty in organization for difficulty in individual ability to adapt. IMO Marionette actually tried combining them (both individual skill mattered and the map organization) but due to low average skill/gear level the bar was set too low.
This is the ONE thing I truly dislike about an influx of WoW players….the constant push to change GW2 to be more like WoW. I LOVE the idea that more players are in GW2 but if you want to play WoW, go do so…..
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
This is the ONE thing I truly dislike about an influx of WoW players….the constant push to change GW2 to be more like WoW. I LOVE the idea that more players are in GW2 but if you want to play WoW, go do so…..
Did you read my post? I don’t want a copy, I want MORE IN DEPTH COMBAT, with strategies and not just “dodge that bad red circle” or just spam skills so fast you can.
Just because I used a Lich King fight example, don’t mean I want the same skills of that boss, neither I want a WoW copy, I hate so many things in this MMO, and I am the first man to deny many other things from this game.
A more complicated script isn’t what we need for a reactive game.
Yes I read your post…..my comment was not exclusively directed at your example but the general tone of MANY of the posts on these forums now.
Sorry if you felt I was singling you out, but I was just venting at all the “make GW2 more like WoW!!!”, threads around here.
I’m in no way saying Group Content couldn’t be improved, but requesting another (different) kind of phase based UBER champ battle that requires Trinity based roles to complete is not something I want to see in GW2.
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Yes I read your post…..my comment was not exclusively directed at your example but the general tone of MANY of the posts on these forums now.
Sorry if you felt I was singling you out, but I was just venting at all the “make GW2 more like WoW!!!”, threads around here.
I’m in no way saying Group Content couldn’t be improved, but requesting another (different) kind of phase based UBER champ battle that requires Trinity based roles to complete is not something I want to see in GW2.
The trinity could not be optional? I don’t understand why a complex battle must have trinity. IT’s just a balance thing, less damage because we have less heal, that’s it.
(edited by klarkc.3754)
A more complicated script isn’t what we need for a reactive game.
The problem is the script ANet chose to follow when designing GW2 seems to have had the exact same results as the script they were avoiding. There is still one single indisputably optimal team composition for the entire game, and encounters still come down to easily memorized rote and repetition. That single team composition ‘not’ being the trinity is really no step forward at all so long as it is replaced by something with the exact same results. WoW has its problems with finding support and tanks; GW2 just has that problem flipped on its head, where supports and tanks and any other role but DPS have problems finding groups.
ANet deliberately took a different road, only to end up at the exact same destination. There are still favored and unfavored playstyles, and there is still no diversity in team composition or play mechanics.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
A more complicated script isn’t what we need for a reactive game.
The problem is the script ANet chose to follow when designing GW2 seems to have had the exact same results as the script they were avoiding. There is still one single indisputably optimal team composition for the entire game, and encounters still come down to easily memorized rote and repetition. That single team composition ‘not’ being the trinity is really no step forward at all so long as it is replaced by something with the exact same results. WoW has its problems with finding support and tanks; GW2 just has that problem flipped on its head, where supports and tanks and any other role but DPS have problems finding groups.
ANet deliberately took a different road, only to end up at the exact same destination. There are still favored and unfavored playstyles, and there is still no diversity in team composition or play mechanics.
That’s the accessibility question, it’s less true in the harder fights (imo).
GW2 players are good, and they’ve managed to get most of the fights to where they don’t have to react in any way. At that point as you say, it’s flat rote 1 tactic.
In comparison, some of the harder fractal fights, while having some optimal setups force the reactive play;
It’s the combination of the large amount of AOE attacks and the dodge mechanic… for instance the Ice elemental or Dredge in the Underground (I think? Terrible with those names) fractal is a pretty straightforward ‘kite to spot, dps, kite to spot, dps’ with a bit of light CC thrown in. In easier fractals it’s a “weaken once and burn” even.
The sheer mass of aoe they throw out along with the specific of the dodge mechanic make that simple script still take a lot of reactive play. When GW2 fights work they’re simple fights that make you react and adjust constantly. When they don’t work they’re too easy (for either through ‘tricks’ or through just being too easy).