Guild Wars 2

RabbitUp.8294:

Jongi.7612:

You really want them to pay the original price plus the expansion and thats not how you make money as a business.

No. I want Anet to offer them GW2 + HoT for $50, and offer me a separate option for just HoT.

There are 2 layers here. New players get GW2 for free, AND veteran players cannot buy HoT alone.

I kinda want Anet to make new customers pay 60 for the game like everyone else did, then make them spend another 50 for an expansion like what is expected of us.

Calcanius.5048:

@locoman.1974

Love your responce, and are almost going to agree.
Even adde the EDIT regarding BOB being everlasting

But: you are still not giving me a reason why Person 1´s deal is the same as Person 2, do Person 1 realy get the same for his money as person 2 ?

Technically, yep, Person 1 and Person 2 are getting the same deal, they’re just deciding to do different things with the deal they got (upgrading and existing Vs. creating a new)..

Note that I do understand why Anet included the base game, and I stronly wish they had given us veterans a better deal (at least a character slot), but I like to nitpick examples like those..

sephiroth.4217:

RabbitUp.8294:

Jongi.7612:

You really want them to pay the original price plus the expansion and thats not how you make money as a business.

No. I want Anet to offer them GW2 + HoT for $50, and offer me a separate option for just HoT.

There are 2 layers here. New players get GW2 for free, AND veteran players cannot buy HoT alone.

I kinda want Anet to make new customers pay 60 for the game like everyone else did, then make them spend another 50 for an expansion like what is expected of us.

Welcome to GW2: HoT | Buy the Game Twice Edition.

Let’s see… $50? I pay more for a tank of gas and in my little world prices for pretty much everything other than entertainment haven’t been frozen for the last 7 years?

Silent The Gray.3091:

Welcome to GW2: HoT | Buy the Game Twice Edition.

If it’s so dammed important, link the HoT to the brand new account you bought. Revel in the freedom of 5 empty character slots and not a single account bound advantage you’ve acquired over the last three years. That’ll show them how the frugal player maximizes value!

Calcanius.5048:

@Fantastic.5298
Good for you, still have nothing to do with the challange

Well the challenge has little to nothing to do with the way the expansion pricing works. But if you are referring to the expansion, and whether or not I have the same benefit as someone who buys the expansion and gets the game free, then I say no I do not get the same benefits, I benefit more. I get all the experiences I’ve had in this game up to this date and they won’t get to experience many of those things.

yakuza snowdragon.4639:

Thanks Arenanet, I’m happy, I understand both arguments but sso many people don’t. CORE GAME IS FREE FOR THOSE WHO DONT ALREADY HAVE IT!!!

And what about for those people who do already have it? That’s $50 + $50 = $100 lost.
As opposed to a latecomer only paying $50 for the same products.
Is your reading comprehension that poor?

Fantastic.5298:

Calcanius.5048:

@Fantastic.5298
Good for you, still have nothing to do with the challange

Well the challenge has little to nothing to do with the way the expansion pricing works. But if you are referring to the expansion, and whether or not I have the same benefit as someone who buys the expansion and gets the game free, then I say no I do not get the same benefits, I benefit more. I get all the experiences I’ve had in this game up to this date and they won’t get to experience many of those things.

How so? Living World Season 1 rewards are available to everyone now, and Anet has even said that they want to add Season 1 to the journal at some point. Season 2 is obtainable with gems/gold as well. Other than that, they’re getting the exact same content as you (core game), only they won’t have to pay for it.

I mean, what about me? I bought the game and went on a hiatus after playing for a while, missing out on the entirety of season 1 and coming back as it ended. So by your logic I payed for no special experience, and I also have to buy HoT as well.

Blackworm.2167:

yakuza snowdragon.4639:

Thanks Arenanet, I’m happy, I understand both arguments but sso many people don’t. CORE GAME IS FREE FOR THOSE WHO DONT ALREADY HAVE IT!!!

And what about for those people who do already have it? That’s $50 + $50 = $100 lost.
As opposed to a latecomer only paying $50 for the same products.
Is your reading comprehension that poor?

.

First of all, you’re kitten at math. 2nd, you’ve had the game for 3 beautiful years. It’s pretty much always like this so i dont know why the hate is so big this time. If you buy sth on release you’ll always get a kittentier deal than latecomers. They will always be able to buy cheaper, but you paid more for the added time.

Blackworm.2167:

yakuza snowdragon.4639:

Thanks Arenanet, I’m happy, I understand both arguments but sso many people don’t. CORE GAME IS FREE FOR THOSE WHO DONT ALREADY HAVE IT!!!

And what about for those people who do already have it? That’s $50 + $50 = $100 lost.
As opposed to a latecomer only paying $50 for the same products.
Is your reading comprehension that poor?

Fantastic.5298:

Calcanius.5048:

@Fantastic.5298
Good for you, still have nothing to do with the challange

Well the challenge has little to nothing to do with the way the expansion pricing works. But if you are referring to the expansion, and whether or not I have the same benefit as someone who buys the expansion and gets the game free, then I say no I do not get the same benefits, I benefit more. I get all the experiences I’ve had in this game up to this date and they won’t get to experience many of those things.

How so? Living World Season 1 rewards are available to everyone now, and Anet has even said that they want to add Season 1 to the journal at some point. Season 2 is obtainable with gems/gold as well. Other than that, they’re getting the exact same content as you (core game), only they won’t have to pay for it.

I mean, what about me? I bought the game and went on a hiatus after playing for a while, missing out on the entirety of season 1 and coming back as it ended. So by your logic I payed for no special experience, and I also have to buy HoT as well.

Experiences aren’t the same as cosmetic rewards. I barely have any of those season 1 rewards, none of the ones that required any farming.

Even if its added to the journal it won’t be the same experience; the experience of logging in with your friends and exploring the new content with everyone else while its brand new and fresh.

And the fact that you, as someone who owned the game and took a hiatus for your own reason, missed those experiences is unfortunate, but Anet can’t tend to every corner case in the world

Well let’s see, Wow charged people for each expansion when it was released and you needed the base game and previous expansions also and they charged 55-60$ per expansion. This makes the GW2 expansion a much better deal.

Now before that I played Daoc who chargedo full price for an expansion but included the base game and previous content with the expansion. So if anything this reminds me of the way companies did it back in the day.

The only people I could see having a legitimate complaint are the people who had purchased gw2 after the announcement of Hot in anticipation of it release and be leaving they would need the base game first. Anyone else has owned the game long enough to have had time to get there monies worth from it.

Fantastic.5298:

Blackworm.2167:

yakuza snowdragon.4639:

Thanks Arenanet, I’m happy, I understand both arguments but sso many people don’t. CORE GAME IS FREE FOR THOSE WHO DONT ALREADY HAVE IT!!!

And what about for those people who do already have it? That’s $50 + $50 = $100 lost.
As opposed to a latecomer only paying $50 for the same products.
Is your reading comprehension that poor?

Fantastic.5298:

Calcanius.5048:

@Fantastic.5298
Good for you, still have nothing to do with the challange

Well the challenge has little to nothing to do with the way the expansion pricing works. But if you are referring to the expansion, and whether or not I have the same benefit as someone who buys the expansion and gets the game free, then I say no I do not get the same benefits, I benefit more. I get all the experiences I’ve had in this game up to this date and they won’t get to experience many of those things.

How so? Living World Season 1 rewards are available to everyone now, and Anet has even said that they want to add Season 1 to the journal at some point. Season 2 is obtainable with gems/gold as well. Other than that, they’re getting the exact same content as you (core game), only they won’t have to pay for it.

I mean, what about me? I bought the game and went on a hiatus after playing for a while, missing out on the entirety of season 1 and coming back as it ended. So by your logic I payed for no special experience, and I also have to buy HoT as well.

Experiences aren’t the same as cosmetic rewards. I barely have any of those season 1 rewards, none of the ones that required any farming.

Even if its added to the journal it won’t be the same experience; the experience of logging in with your friends and exploring the new content with everyone else while its brand new and fresh.

And the fact that you, as someone who owned the game and took a hiatus for your own reason, missed those experiences is unfortunate, but Anet can’t tend to every corner case in the world

That’s a rather shallow and whimsical argument. None of that has any monetary value and, like it or not, that’s what business is based around. You’re basically trying to compare your life experiences to mine now under the assumption those have monetary value and I think you’re crossing the line by doing that.

The fact that people cannot play the game 24/7 (One of the reasons I stopped playing P2P MMOs) is why they added the LS Journal in the first place, so that people like us, who have lives, can still experience the game.
Your argument doesn’t really hold up.

Why do you care about this tbh? The core problem is the price being too high, regardless of whether new players get the base game or not. IMO it’s a good thing they keep the game accessible for new players and not have a paywall. An MMO does need fresh blood once in a while.

So if you must QQ, whine about the real problem which is that you want the price to be lower.

Jealousy is a curse. We have had two years of playing this game. Honestly it’s not the decision I would have made but if this really upsets you then you worry too much about other people’s good fortune.

So I asked around with some friends of mine and asked them what they would price the content thats coming with and coming because of the HOT expansion. Its by no means a complete survey I asked maybe 20 people.

For the PvE focused players on average they placed the content theyl get at around 15-20$ so far. The WvWlders placed the new maps at around 10$ in value. The PvP guys went for 5$ on the pvp map. Some of my guildies said they would pay 10$ for the guild halls provided the guild halls have a substantial impact. So add all that in and its 40-kitten in worth for the total content value (again this is the view of my freinds and a few of my guildies only. can’t claim to speak for the entire game so I wan’t even attempt to…unlike some people)

I feel people like to forget about hte WvW and the TPvP changes coming since were getting it whether we get HOT or not. But in a way its unlikely those changes would have even occured without HoT. After all they have to pay for new maps SOMEHOW. So the belief that youd get something that massive entirely for free without paying for it at SOME point is….stupid.

Its just when I thought about the grand total of all that were getting. The price makes alot more sense.

Haha.. here is an edit for your analogy…

both payed for BOB + expansion… but person 2 can just start using BOB with their expansion… person 1 gets home and finds that the screws that hold the expansion to their BOB are not included. They have to buy those separate.

Anet just has to screw us… oh wait.. they already did

Calcanius.5048:

Here is a little challange to all you fanboys/white knight and others

The BOB Exampel
Two people go into same shop to buy a bundle made out of 2 items, lets call the item BOB, Person 1 already have a BOB and person 2 dont.

Bundle contains: BOB and a expansion for BOB.

The Problem is when you leave the store, a store clerk come running after you and say to person 1: Sorry Sir, but i see that you already have BOB at home and takes your BOB away.

Both payed the same amount, How do you think person 1 feels now ?

Justify how person 1 gets same value for money as person 2

EDIT: BOB is everylasting, does not break or gets old

If GW2 become free to play most GW 1 veterans will leave. Free to play is RNG drops, Pay To Win, and very grindy. New players coming into the game has a Free To Play perspective or a monthly subscription. Rather than a Free To Play or a monthly subscription models, I prefer pay to play box set model so I for one am willing to pay $50 box set for the continuation of the game.

IIvIIozzie.9250:

I’ve never seen such an ungrateful fanbase in my life. They are giving you the base game completely free and you people are still complaining! You guys are incredible…..

reminds me of America Online… oh, sorry, have to get in the wayback machine for this one… remember when Al Gore first invented the internet? And there was this company called America Online that gave you 50 hours of free access to his internet via a dial up conection… (you know.. modems… those things that connected your computer to Al’s internet using a phone line)

Yes, kiddos… we used to get our internet access for FREE! (when you paid your $50 monthly subscription… wait… so… how was that free again? I get these hours free… when I pay… hum… I don’t get it…)

bottom line… marketing is kittening stupid sometimes, but the people that fall for stupid marketing are even more stupid

You know how this could have been done way better? Since the game sometimes goes on sale for $10, just sell “Core + Expansion” for $50, and sell “Expansion Only” for $10 less.

The bundle is still $50 (and could be offered as a bundle for new players, but as a convenience thing, not a “plus all these nice bonus items that our loyal veterans can’t have” kind of thing). Those who already have the game can put the $10 toward a new character slot. Those who have an open character slot already can save $10. Many people could be happy.

You wouldn’t even have to put the core game on sale outside of the bundle, you know? As long as the core game and expansion cost $50, what’s the harm in selling the expansion-only product for $40?

The only reason for not doing it this way is greed. The only downside is the potential loss of $10 from each satisfied loyal customer. Many of them, of course, would then put that $10 toward a character slot, but there does exist that possibility that the $10 wouldn’t eventually go to ArenaNet, NCSoft, or whoever fumbled this.

This sum up most of the major discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9gVQB8gss

ShadowKatt.6804:

IIvIIozzie.9250:

I’ve never seen such an ungrateful fanbase in my life. They are giving you the base game completely free and you people are still complaining! You guys are incredible…..

reminds me of America Online… oh, sorry, have to get in the wayback machine for this one… remember when Al Gore first invented the internet? And there was this company called America Online that gave you 50 hours of free access to his internet via a dial up conection… (you know.. modems… those things that connected your computer to Al’s internet using a phone line)

Yes, kiddos… we used to get our internet access for FREE! (when you paid your $50 monthly subscription… wait… so… how was that free again? I get these hours free… when I pay… hum… I don’t get it…)

bottom line… marketing is kittening stupid sometimes, but the people that fall for stupid marketing are even more stupid

TBH, I kind of miss that cool modem connecting sound.

Echosys.2406:

I was actually tempted to see that somebody finally trying to go in a logical way. But then, you just destroyed it.
“BOB is everylasting, does not break or gets old”
Basically you found something that can easily solve your challange… and then.. well.. excluded.

But then again, heres my answer:
We can’t deny our affections, and interests… nor devalue our or their desires or sense of value. The 2 person who entered that shop, and buyed BoB + expansion is too persons wo deserves ther own choice. But as you stated, they buyed BoB + expansion.

Person 1 already has BoB he\she familiar with it. But he buyed BoB + expansion prolly because the exp. Person 1 already know and have the values of BoB. and now even the exp.

Person 2 buyes BoB + expansion because he\she values it, or heard, read, seend something in BoB + expansion. Basically buys it, because he \she interested in it.

Conclusion:

They both buyed BoB + expansion and not to mention that Person 1 recieves only expansion cuz he\she already have it. In the other hand person 2 recieves BoB + expansion.

It seems Person 1 recieves less than person 2 is that right? No
We already knew that they buyed it, even person 1 who only recieves and needs only expansion. Whats that mean? simple. person 1 leaves with an even value of his money. he\she not even brothered by BoB cuz he\she already have it. He\she solely needed expansion, therefore he buyed it. his\her values were different, but not in money, its in the type of interest he\she had.

They leaved the shop with the same product, arrived at home, and used it different.

It’s even doesn’t matter if you have or do not have BoB.. cuz you stated both of them buyed it, left with it….its just the way they consumes.

“How do you think person 1 feels now ?”
Obviously happy with his\her product, don’t let me state it again why.

“Justify how person 1 gets same value for money as person 2”
I’ts matter of interest, and the way of consume.

Also in note:
You asked it how person 1 feels… and whit this you also stated that he\she is a person. thats basicaly means her values can’t be compared… even if we compare it… does that mean, they even? can’t be compared, theres no bigger, or smaller.

In your case, both customers place high value on BoB + expansion. But in reality, why people feel unhappy on forum? Because they think they’ve been cheated : person 2 (new comer) get discount ( free BoB), but person 1 (old customer, spend more (Bob + BoB + expansion) get no discount/offer.

That’s the reality. Happiness affects the value.

Let’s put person 1 back to 2 years ago when BoB was newly released. He/she entered the shop and picked up BoB which stated that the expansion pack will be released 2 years later, in which includes BoB + expansion. What did he/she think? Would he/she still paid for it at that moment? It is a total different story.

Guyver.1426:

In your case, both customers place high value on BoB + expansion. But in reality, why people feel unhappy on forum? Because they think they’ve been cheated : person 2 (new comer) get discount ( free BoB), but person 1 (old customer, spend more (Bob + BoB + expansion) get no discount/offer.

That’s the reality. Happiness affects the value.

Let’s put person 1 back to 2 years ago when BoB was newly released. He/she entered the shop and picked up BoB which stated that the expansion pack will be released 2 years later, in which includes BoB + expansion. What did he/she think? Would he/she still paid for it at that moment? It is a total different story.

As for me, i sees this the real probleme here. People grieving over a 2 year old purchase, that they do not recieved the same product as a today buyer. But thats so nonsense… That was then, and now this deal is today…

for me the only real argument, is that “we don’t know enough about this xpac” but really…this is too just a trust issue, ppl who do not trust in what they know so far, and ppl like me, who have trust in the company that they will deliver what we need i started playing back then when gw1. I’m mostly speaks as how i see it. and even if i would know for certain that 2 years later, i can only buy the xpack with a freebie core game…i would still do it. I had too much fun with this game to not.

oh and this challange was also fun

Who wouldn’t want to have BOB?

At this time, we can’t really reasonably attack or defend the price, considering we don’t know the entirety of what the xpac will contain.

There could be alot of content not yet revealed, It could be that you do get a code that you could use for a second separate core account. Then that would be justified. But this is based on things were done know yet. Currently no I don’t think you can Justify it at this time.

Defending the $100 vs the $50 is easy. You get $50 of gems that you would buy anyway if you use the gem store and a free character slot.

It is defending the first $50 where it gets interesting. Based on datamining each of the 3 levels is slightly larger than the SW … and correct me if I am wrong but SW and DT were free. So those 3 are presumably worth the same unless they have some RADICALLY different mechanics.

So, if you take out those 3 maps what are the 3 major changes? Revenant, professions, and Guild Halls. To make things work everyone would need access to the first two items, HOT or not.

So that leaves just one thing. Can anyone justify the guild halls for $50?

Calcanius.5048:

Here is a little challange to all you fanboys/white knight and others

The BOB Exampel
Two people go into same shop to buy a bundle made out of 2 items, lets call the item BOB, Person 1 already have a BOB and person 2 dont.

Bundle contains: BOB and a expansion for BOB.

The Problem is when you leave the store, a store clerk come running after you and say to person 1: Sorry Sir, but i see that you already have BOB at home and takes your BOB away.

Both payed the same amount, How do you think person 1 feels now ?

Justify how person 1 gets same value for money as person 2

EDIT: BOB is everylasting, does not break or gets old

Here is a challenge for you:
Start a QQ-post without reason.

For your info. The Shopkeeper don’t take your BOB. You can take it home, install it and you can see, that a installation of the same game on the same system is redundant -.-

Calcanius.5048:

Here is a little challange to all you fanboys/white knight and others

The BOB Exampel
Two people go into same shop to buy a bundle made out of 2 items, lets call the item BOB, Person 1 already have a BOB and person 2 dont.

Bundle contains: BOB and a expansion for BOB.

The Problem is when you leave the store, a store clerk come running after you and say to person 1: Sorry Sir, but i see that you already have BOB at home and takes your BOB away.

Both payed the same amount, How do you think person 1 feels now ?

Justify how person 1 gets same value for money as person 2

EDIT: BOB is everylasting, does not break or gets old

Well, to me personally, a challenge implies a minimum degree of difficulty in order to be able to solve it. This is absent in your case, but I will let that slip, seeing that you could do well with a little education:

First of all, let me point you to the EULA , which you are required to agree with in order to play the game.

Paragraph 2, mostly the first part, talks about a service. This is were your BOB example becomes irrelevant, because we are not dealing with items here, but with services.

In addition to that, paragraph 4B quite clearly states that NCSOFT may, in its sole and absolute discretion, require You to pay to establish or maintain any Account, to use any Service or to use any Content..

With HoT, a new kind of service is being offered. In order to make use of that service, you pay the expansion price. Your old service is still being maintained, even though they wouldn’t even have to do that according to the EULA. There are no items being taken away from you, because you never had any to begin with.

Lessons for you to learn from this:
1. Understand what you are actually paying for, reading the EULA helps.
2. Pick an example which actually applies
3. Install a spell-checker for your browser.

@Aleksander Suburb.4287

ill play along
Person 1 gets home only to find the shop clerk there, Clerk tells Person 1 that he have to give up 1 BOB. So now person 1 can choose to keep his beloved old BOB or the new BOB.
Problem remains for person 1, he still loose a BOB paid for and is therefor not getting same value for money as person 2 who also bought the same bundle

I think I’d use the following example:

Here is BOB, and he’s full price. You buy BOB, and it turns out many promised features are missing, and BOB has many problems.

A few years later, here is the expansion to BOB: BOB2 The price is exactly the same as the original, but basically you get the same BOB with a few extras, and BOB2 now includes some things that were promised with the original BOB, and some fixes for the original BOB’s problems. If you already had the original BOB, and just want the extra content, features and fixes, tough luck, you still pay full price.

Now wait for the inevitable, where BOB2 turns out to also lack some things that were promised, and has problems that will be fixed if you pay full price for BOB3.

So basically, Anet’s idea of an expansion, is worse than the model for buying a new version of Windows?

My view on this is that okay the expansion is fifty. Even back when some of us were playing the original Guild Wars all 3 costed fifty dollars and then for what eye of the north brought it was less but no where near the content level of what we have seen so far so I can see the justification on the price as well as how the price is with their business model. As well the seventy-five dollar one with all it comes with is fine IMO. I do agree with the one hundred dollar one based on how things work most likely someone who is going to buy the 75 or 100 dollar choices is going to eventually down the road that 4000 gems so just look at it in the form as all of the HoT content plus a discount on those gems being the same things for 75 dollars but if you pay 25 more for the 100 one your getting the gems at half price which is nice imo. Anyways that is my opinion on it.

It’s a 2 year maintanance fee
- acces to new content and updates require you to pay
- paying the 2 yearly fee for the first time includes the core-game

I’m a bit confused with all this topic of he price.

- On one side, the fact that they gift the core version, it’s a nice step because it stop the tiring fact of people being force to buy all the previous chapters to play the last one, if that practices continue and got extended, would be very nice for the newcomers.

However, it’s a bit, “unfair” for the people who already got the core game, as they don’t get anything in exchange…

- Also, I miss the lack of art book and figure. T_T my poor Rytlock will remain alone. So having all digital adittions, really discourage me to go for the high editions.

- About the price of the standard edition, I haven’t got any problem with it, I read that there are people who expected the expansion be under the 20€, but I was not one of them, so find the 45 was not any surprise for me, and I haven’t got any doubt that HoT will entertain me the enough time to justify that inversion in that videogame for my leisure time.

Let’s see if i can take a crack at it
1) Base game doesn’t go away. If you don’t buy expansion you can still play everything that was there before you bought the expansion.
2) They released crap-tons of free content which we all seem to have just now conveniently forgotten about.
3) They’re trying to get new players into the game, more new players= bigger community= better for everybody in the long run
4) Nobody forced you to pay for gems or character slots or anything, i’m tired of seeing people whine about how they’re somehow owed something because they got a character slot or a skin or something
5) Remember when wow made WotLK on the free level? Did you hear all this kittening and rage then? No? Oh well maybe that was because they were making it easier for new players to access the game?
6) I know i said it before but let me reiterate, they spent years putting out free content and asked for nothing (no, the fact that you got gems of your own free will does not count). Think of the price as kindof a tip… while a bit tasteless it’s definitely not unwarranted.
7) YOU ARE ENTITLED TO NOTHING. That one i can’t say long or loud enough, you are a consumer, they are a company, if you don’t like what they’re doing don’t buy their kitten or else provide an argument that consists of more than just “muh stuffs! Muh feels!” but don’t sit there and whine about how you’re entitled to X Y or Z because you did A B or C

CynicalFred.9135:

they are a company, if you don’t like what they’re doing don’t buy their kitten or else provide an argument that consists of more than just “muh stuffs! Muh feels!” but don’t sit there and whine about how you’re entitled to X Y or Z because you did A B or C

And that’s exactly what’s happening here.

RabbitUp.8294:

CynicalFred.9135:

they are a company, if you don’t like what they’re doing don’t buy their kitten or else provide an argument that consists of more than just “muh stuffs! Muh feels!” but don’t sit there and whine about how you’re entitled to X Y or Z because you did A B or C

And that’s exactly what’s happening here.

Good for you…. way to ignore 90% of what i said.

CynicalFred.9135:

Good for you…. way to ignore 90% of what i said.

It was the only thing worth responding in your post.

Defending the price: Because it’s close to the market standard (per WoW) and it’s what their analysts the market will bear.

About the other stuff,

“Life isn’t fair, it’s just fairer than death, that’s all.”
— William Goldman, The Princess Bride