Guild Wars 2

I have a serious question for Anet not regarding the price or features of the expansion pack but more important than both. With the shift to expansions will the game move away from the strict RNG and gemstore driven model we’ve had since Nov 2012? I don’t say since launch because as you’ll recall we were promised the game wouldn’t be built around the gemstore pre launch and November (post a massively profitable Halloween) was when things shifted.

Since then I’ve been a serious anti RNG forum poster as my account is bugged (you know it is I’ll take your silence as admission) and the “now in the gemstore” pop ups drive me mad as they go against the pre launch promises. Many players on the forums defend the gemstore because the game needs money to survive (even though you swore box sales could support you indefinitely) and almost all items were convince or cosmetic (watchwork pick I’m looking at you).

Now that you’re generating revenue from expansions will we see a game free of “now in the gemstore!” and “get more gold!” or are we simply paying a box price on top of the current FTP feel model?

-Full disclosure I’m not buying HoT currently but it affects me as GW2 customer.

“Now that you’re generating revenue from expansions will we see a game free of “now in the gemstore!” and “get more gold!” or are we simply paying a box price on top of the current FTP feel model”

What are you asking here? That they dismantle the gem store and no longer sell things in it and that they also remove the gold<—-> gems system? If so, then that’s extremely unlikely. No company in their right mind will remove a profitable source of income for no reason.

I’m asking if they’re going to shift away from exactly that. That model wasn’t profitable enough long term which is why we have an expansion. It’s a perfectly reasonable question to ask since if they were honest about all this pre launch I wouldn’t even be here.

Well, good luck in getting someone from ANet to come here and discuss their future business plan with you on this thread.

It’s not for them they never answer real questions. It will serve as a reminder to everyone that pre launch promises are worth 2 gems.

The gem model works wonderful and they create a good revenue with it.

They never ever said that there will never ever be a payed expansion. They just said that there needs to be a good reason (= enaugh content) to do so.

Since the beginning it has always been kind of clear that every new elder dragon will come with an expansion. I don’t know where you have your information from.

Entenkommando.5208:

The gem model works wonderful and they create a good revenue with it.

They never ever said that there will never ever be a payed expansion. They just said that there needs to be a good reason (= enaugh content) to do so.

Since the beginning it has always been kind of clear that every new elder dragon will come with an expansion. I don’t know where you have your information from.

Allow me to introduce myself.

No expansions

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-03-its-unlikely-guild-wars-2-will-ever-get-an-expansion-pack

(you’ll notice they say if done right we’ll have LS and never an xpac)

“If we do this right,” he answered, “we will probably never do an expansion and everything will be going into this Living World strategy.”

But the gem model isn’t enough obviously.

Entenkommando.5208:

“If we do this right,” he answered, “we will probably never do an expansion and everything will be going into this Living World strategy.”

But the gem model isn’t enough obviously.

Exactly why posted and proved (easily) when asked. The gemstore model and Living Story wasn’t working and they’re changing to the GW1 model at least in part. My question is whether they’re going to go further away from the model that failed and closer to the model that worked.

I don’t think so. What I’ve read a while ago said that the gem Shop creates about 7 million each month.
That’s only like 500.000 subscribers. But it’s a lot of money.

Armorsets won’t be made for the gemstore anymore, only outfits.
That’s one change so far.

It’s just anet trying to see if people are willing to buy a 2 in 1 feature pack patch for 50usd. Cos after this there will be no base game/expansion differentiation. It’s all just a 50usd patch ^^

Ofcourse the gemstore stays. Gemstore doesn’t even belong to anet, they might get profit from it, but as far as I know it’s owned by err… Ncsoft i think?

ArenaNet is strictly a dev company, everything else is setup by ncsoft so ncsoft profits from gemstore and probably pays ArenaNet a set wage.

By the way, “Free To Play” means no mandatory play-fees. If you ask me that bit of their business model is executed flawlessly (or at least best i’ve seen).
Gem store is just vanity and convenience and so far it hasn’t been very intrusive or “Buy to win” if you ask me. No overpowered pets, “bot” pets that do stuff for you, x5 exp or stuff like that.

Jitsuryoku.9038:

By the way, “Free To Play” means no mandatory play-fees. If you ask me that bit of their business model is executed flawlessly (or at least best i’ve seen).
Gem store is just vanity and convenience and so far it hasn’t been very intrusive or “Buy to win” if you ask me. No overpowered pets, “bot” pets that do stuff for you, x5 exp or stuff like that.

Gemstore’s a good side thing. Should be. Not the main focus of this operation – which it is, sadly. So the business model seems to be shifting heavily towards the greedy f2p type (where another of the NC’s titles comes to mind, with lots of wings and a dumb comercial).

F2P isn’t a P2W type by default. But treating everyone here like they’re in a f2p game, with heavy restrictions in characters creation and storage is pretty much just as bad. After all, when you convert cash into gems into gold and get your ascended gear in 1 day, it still feels like P2W, hm? Which makes me think that legendaries and ascended mats can be traded over tp for this very nice reason.

@Channel: you can stop copy/pasting the same message in all threads any time now. Try getting a bit more creative maybe, hm?!

ANet’s dreams are nice and pink. And the fartblasted by their bosses raging greed.

Jitsuryoku.9038:

Ofcourse the gemstore stays. Gemstore doesn’t even belong to anet, they might get profit from it, but as far as I know it’s owned by err… Ncsoft i think?

ArenaNet is strictly a dev company, everything else is setup by ncsoft so ncsoft profits from gemstore and probably pays ArenaNet a set wage.

By the way, “Free To Play” means no mandatory play-fees. If you ask me that bit of their business model is executed flawlessly (or at least best i’ve seen).
Gem store is just vanity and convenience and so far it hasn’t been very intrusive or “Buy to win” if you ask me. No overpowered pets, “bot” pets that do stuff for you, x5 exp or stuff like that.

Watchwork pick /cough

And I’m more than informed enough on ftp vs b2p.

The game’s design was shifted toward the gemstore which is a ftp trap but inside a b2p game which is where I always took issue.

Since the beginning the plan was to have a gem store that generates revenue and there won’t be a need for an expansion. There was not a shift at some point that introduced the gem store. Am i missing your point?

Chicho Gosho.6507:

Since the beginning the plan was to have a gem store that generates revenue and there won’t be a need for an expansion. There was not a shift at some point that introduced the gem store. Am i missing your point?

Halloween 2012 did so well that it shifted the mentality towards reaching that level of profit constantly.

Guild Wars cash shops have always been iffy. Just look at what Guild Wars 1 sold. It was downright p2w.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store
1) an NPC to level and fight beside you until level 20
2) starter weapons better than what you start off with and better than what you’ll get for quite some time.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_of_the_Year_Upgrade
3) unlocks all PvE skills without having to play the game
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill_Unlock_Pack
4) unlocks all PvP skills, weapons, armor, upgrades without having to earn then by doing actual PvP. You could step into PvP on your first time and be completely geared with access to every skill in the game with your opponents still in PvP starter gear and skills.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Access_Kit
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Item_Unlock_Pack
5) the ability to turn your alt characters into heroes to play alongside you. You can gear them to the highest levels, chose the skills, direct their movements using flags, manually play their skills yourself.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mercenary_Hero_Slot
6) unlock all the ranger pets to access them in the Zaishen menagerie
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pet_Unlock_Pack

Tell me this is better than what Guild Wars 2 sells. And they had the expansion based model people are asking for.

Ya I should’ve known Anet wouldn’t keep their word but hey you live and you learn.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Guild Wars cash shops have always been iffy. Just look at what Guild Wars 1 sold. It was downright p2w.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store
1) an NPC to level and fight beside you until level 20
2) starter weapons better than what you start off with and better than what you’ll get for quite some time.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_of_the_Year_Upgrade
3) unlocks all PvE skills without having to play the game
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill_Unlock_Pack
4) unlocks all PvP skills, weapons, armor, upgrades without having to earn then by doing actual PvP. You could step into PvP on your first time and be completely geared with access to every skill in the game with your opponents still in PvP starter gear and skills.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Access_Kit
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Item_Unlock_Pack
5) the ability to turn your alt characters into heroes to play alongside you. You can gear them to the highest levels, chose the skills, direct their movements using flags, manually play their skills yourself.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mercenary_Hero_Slot
6) unlock all the ranger pets to access them in the Zaishen menagerie
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pet_Unlock_Pack

Tell me this is better than what Guild Wars 2 sells. And they had the expansion based model people are asking for.

Not sure if sarcasm, or dead serious.

Entenkommando.5208:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Guild Wars cash shops have always been iffy. Just look at what Guild Wars 1 sold. It was downright p2w.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store
1) an NPC to level and fight beside you until level 20
2) starter weapons better than what you start off with and better than what you’ll get for quite some time.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_of_the_Year_Upgrade
3) unlocks all PvE skills without having to play the game
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill_Unlock_Pack
4) unlocks all PvP skills, weapons, armor, upgrades without having to earn then by doing actual PvP. You could step into PvP on your first time and be completely geared with access to every skill in the game with your opponents still in PvP starter gear and skills.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Access_Kit
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Item_Unlock_Pack
5) the ability to turn your alt characters into heroes to play alongside you. You can gear them to the highest levels, chose the skills, direct their movements using flags, manually play their skills yourself.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mercenary_Hero_Slot
6) unlock all the ranger pets to access them in the Zaishen menagerie
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pet_Unlock_Pack

Tell me this is better than what Guild Wars 2 sells. And they had the expansion based model people are asking for.

Not sure if sarcasm, or dead serious.

Dead serious. This is what Guild Wars 1 sold in their store. Access to all skills, above level starter equipment, PvP skills and gear, ranger pets, high quality heroes. All for cash without having to play the game to unlock and some unable to even to get by playing.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Guild Wars cash shops have always been iffy. Just look at what Guild Wars 1 sold. It was downright p2w.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store
1) an NPC to level and fight beside you until level 20
2) starter weapons better than what you start off with and better than what you’ll get for quite some time.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_of_the_Year_Upgrade
3) unlocks all PvE skills without having to play the game
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill_Unlock_Pack
4) unlocks all PvP skills, weapons, armor, upgrades without having to earn then by doing actual PvP. You could step into PvP on your first time and be completely geared with access to every skill in the game with your opponents still in PvP starter gear and skills.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Access_Kit
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Item_Unlock_Pack
5) the ability to turn your alt characters into heroes to play alongside you. You can gear them to the highest levels, chose the skills, direct their movements using flags, manually play their skills yourself.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mercenary_Hero_Slot
6) unlock all the ranger pets to access them in the Zaishen menagerie
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pet_Unlock_Pack

Tell me this is better than what Guild Wars 2 sells. And they had the expansion based model people are asking for.

It is!

• You can unlock all your traits in GW2 with in-game currency, and there’s no skill to buy, basically – they’re glued to your class/weapon/race
• The mercenary heroes was just kitten, since you’ve had a horde of heroes that would do precisely the same thing;
• Starter weapons and the imp were loyalty gifts, level-gated and certainly not with the best stats one would want. Pretty handy though for Presearing characters…
  *The imp was rendered useless at lvl 20, not that you couldn’t get a full inventory of summoning stones inside the game, or a perma-summoning stone as of late.
• In GW2 you have already all pets and skills unlocked in pvp and all possible runes/sigils and gear available for free.
• Why would you really unlock any pve skills without playing the game?!

Also please tell me how “$$$ → Gems → Gold is any better → TP purchase of anything” is any better? And I’ll pretend to ignore the fact that usually a new bug report was met with another skin/mini/sale in the store.

Now… what were you talking about?! ._.

But the fact that it took you like 10 hours until max level and every kitten mob drops good gear makes the p2w aspect a bit hilarious.

Omocha.4931:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Guild Wars cash shops have always been iffy. Just look at what Guild Wars 1 sold. It was downright p2w.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store
1) an NPC to level and fight beside you until level 20
2) starter weapons better than what you start off with and better than what you’ll get for quite some time.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_of_the_Year_Upgrade
3) unlocks all PvE skills without having to play the game
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skill_Unlock_Pack
4) unlocks all PvP skills, weapons, armor, upgrades without having to earn then by doing actual PvP. You could step into PvP on your first time and be completely geared with access to every skill in the game with your opponents still in PvP starter gear and skills.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Access_Kit
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/PvP_Item_Unlock_Pack
5) the ability to turn your alt characters into heroes to play alongside you. You can gear them to the highest levels, chose the skills, direct their movements using flags, manually play their skills yourself.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mercenary_Hero_Slot
6) unlock all the ranger pets to access them in the Zaishen menagerie
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pet_Unlock_Pack

Tell me this is better than what Guild Wars 2 sells. And they had the expansion based model people are asking for.

It is!

• You can unlock all your traits in GW2 with in-game currency, and there’s no skill to buy, basically – they’re glued to your class/weapon/race
• The mercenary heroes was just kitten, since you’ve had a horde of heroes that would do precisely the same thing;
• Starter weapons and the imp were loyalty gifts, level-gated and certainly not with the best stats one would want. Pretty handy though for Presearing characters…
  *The imp was rendered useless at lvl 20, not that you couldn’t get a full inventory of summoning stones inside the game, or a perma-summoning stone as of late.
• In GW2 you have already all pets and skills unlocked in pvp and all possible runes/sigils and gear available for free.
• Why would you really unlock any pve skills without playing the game?!

Also please tell me how “$$$ -> Gems -> Gold is any better -> TP purchase of anything” is any better? And I’ll pretend to ignore the fact that usually a new bug report was met with another skin/mini/sale in the store.

Now… what were you talking about?! ._.

Having all the PvP armors, skills, upgrades without having to actually unlock them first by doing actual PvP wasn’t p2w? You could literally be facing a fully geared opponent in PvP on both your first battles with you in starter PvP gear and skills. Having p2w in the store is better than Guild Wars 2s cosmetics?

The mercenary heroes were better than the regular heroes. Far better, You could choose exactly what mix of professions you wanted instead of only taking what the game offered you at each outpost, which might not be level 20 and might not be even heroes. Some outposts only had henchmen, not heroes. You could always have level 20 heroes (not henchmen) with the exact skills and gear you wanted for the exact meta build that worked together with that set of mercenaries.

The starter weapons were available with any new character in any campaign. You could summon them for Cantha and Elona as well as Prophesies.
For example, here is the Starter hammer stats
Blunt damage: 19-35 (Requires 9 Hammer Mastery)
Damage +15% (while Health is above 50%)
Armor penetration +20% (Chance: 20%)
Here is what a regular character got with a starter hammer.
Blunt Dmg: 3-5
Damage +20%

The fire imp was extremely helpful for a leveling character, not only did it level beside you, but hit hard with fire damage. At level 20 it had 14 fire damage and 9 energy storage and could heal itself. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fire_Imp_

Yes, Guild Wars 2 has everything unlocked. That completely irrelevant to the point I’m making. I’m talking about Guild Wars 1 where everything was not unlocked and you had to either play the game to unlock skills and pets or you could pay money to unlock without playing.

No, the Guild Wars 1 store is not better than the Guild Wars 2 store.

Did you even play the game?!

GW1 had nothing to do with p2w concept.
GW2 has a lot more: buy gems with irl $, buy gold with gems, buy everything you need off the TP.

Unlocking pets in gw1 is another skin thing, since they didn’t have their own skills (save for the Brutal Mauling). Mercenaries would’ve been better than henchmen, not than heroes, please get your facts straight. Weapons were gifts and same goes for imp and M.O.X. (and pretty bad too – the weapons – unless used in Presearing). Again, get your facts straight. Skills and mods unlocked?! I certainly would need to get a lobotomy before paying to get something like that, but I guess laziness comes with a price tag. But hey! You forgot the mini Kuna, mini Varesh, the auras and special dances! Much pain to win. Such unfair. Wow.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

No, the Guild Wars 1 store is not better than the Guild Wars 2 store.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

The GW2 store has a scam-like lottery system in the Black Lion Chests, in which you cannot buy directly what you want; rather, you have to gamble in a system in which you don’t know the odds and hope you get tickets for skins.

Meanwhile, in the original Guild Wars, you had skill unlock packs so PvP only players didn’t have to buy full games they didn’t want; they could just buy the skills unlocks for a chapter and compete under equal footing with everyone else without paying for content they didn’t want.

It’s a completely different point of view. One sees the players as people to be scammed; the other loses possible profits in order to make players happier.

It’s easy to see which one is the unethical one, and which one is the ethical one.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The starter weapons were available with any new character in any campaign. You could summon them for Cantha and Elona as well as Prophesies.
For example, here is the Starter hammer stats
Blunt damage: 19-35 (Requires 9 Hammer Mastery)
Damage +15% (while Health is above 50%)
Armor penetration +20% (Chance: 20%)
Here is what a regular character got with a starter hammer.
Blunt Dmg: 3-5
Damage +20%

Bolding mine. Tell me, did you see any starting character with 9 Hammer Mastery? Do you even know how the attribute system worked in the original GW?

To be fair to Flesh Wound I think he was trying to make a point but this isn’t going to end well. I’m only going to add one thing that kills any arguement claiming gw2 gemstore is better than gw1 and that’s RNG.

GW2 has lottery items paid for with RL cash (if you bought gems with gold you traded those with someone who paid cash).

Test.8734:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

No, the Guild Wars 1 store is not better than the Guild Wars 2 store.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

The GW2 store has a scam-like lottery system in the Black Lion Chests, in which you cannot buy directly what you want; rather, you have to gamble in a system in which you don’t know the odds and hope you get tickets for skins.

Meanwhile, in the original Guild Wars, you had skill unlock packs so PvP only players didn’t have to buy full games they didn’t want; they could just buy the skills unlocks for a chapter and compete under equal footing with everyone else without paying for content they didn’t want.

It’s a completely different point of view. One sees the players as people to be scammed; the other loses possible profits in order to make players happier.

It’s easy to see which one is the unethical one, and which one is the ethical one.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The starter weapons were available with any new character in any campaign. You could summon them for Cantha and Elona as well as Prophesies.
For example, here is the Starter hammer stats
Blunt damage: 19-35 (Requires 9 Hammer Mastery)
Damage +15% (while Health is above 50%)
Armor penetration +20% (Chance: 20%)
Here is what a regular character got with a starter hammer.
Blunt Dmg: 3-5
Damage +20%

Bolding mine. Tell me, did you see any starting character with 9 Hammer Mastery? Do you even know how the attribute system worked in the original GW?

Yes, I played the game. All I’m pointing out here is that the starting weapon you can buy from the store is better than the starting weapon a character gets. It does do more damage at low levels and it is worth keeping for a bit longer till you get something better,

And if you feel that selling cosmetics, RNG or not, is worse than the ability to buy your PvP gear and skills from the store without putting one foot in the PvP area first and then facing someone who hasn’t bought their PvP skills and items but is still in starter gear, then we have different values.

No one is forcing you to buy the RNG aspects of the gem store and it doesn’t hurt you if someone else buy keys for black lion chests. It does make a difference in the PvP area if you are facing someone completely geared from the store, when you are not.

The pvp items might help against very new players maybe (I’m trying to help) but it’s not like those are anywhere near top tier

I’m not arguing that the Guild Wars 2 gemstore doesn’t have problems that impact the game in negative ways. What I’m saying is that the Guild Wars 1 store was bad also, in it’s own way since it allowed you to buypass (pun intended) the game’s core mechanics, which is play to unlock.

Since both stores are bad in their own way and because gw1 model was an expansion based model, I was arguing that just because they change their business model doesn’t mean it will be better.

Look at my signature for what I think.

What I would say to clarify my OP is this.

I feel the game’s design shifted towards the gemstore because it was so profitable early on. That never happened in GW because players didn’t let it.

Aidenwolf.5964:

What I would say to clarify my OP is this.

I feel the game’s design shifted towards the gemstore because it was so profitable early on. That never happened in GW because players didn’t let it.

How did the players stop it? They certainly didn’t stop the aspects of that store that were bad for that game,

Why should they change their model? It is very profitable. HoT lays the fundament for an even broader spectrum of items offered via gem store. The guild halls will bring more cosmetics to decorate them.

Expansion are like straw fires causing high and sharp peak in sales for one or two quarters and that was it. The sales via gem store create a very steady stream of revenue over many many months. Arenanet need both aspects to be successful.

@Just a flesh wound: The weapons were part of a Prophecies special package (kind of a GotY, if you want), same goes for the imp (I’m thinking everyone having the whole game got it) and same was applied to M.O.X. But hey, you played and you could give all that accurate info

Omocha.4931:

@Just a flesh wound: The weapons were part of a Prophecies special package (kind of a GotY, if you want), same goes for the imp (I’m thinking everyone having the whole game got it) and same was applied to M.O.X. But hey, you played and you could give all that accurate info

Maybe so about the weapons. I remember seeing the imp for sale in the store though. So if you didn’t have prophesies you could still buy it and use it in Cantha and Elona. The weapons were usable in Cantha and Elona. I used them on my chars there, which is something that people who were playing but didn’t have prophesies couldn’t use.

Edit:
Here is the fire imp. It was in the store listed as the year 2008 upgrade. It was also available with games purchased from 2008 on.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2008_Upgrade

The weapons were also in the store as well as if you bought the upgraded version of prophesies. So if you had an older game or a non prophesies game, you could buy them from the store and have better starter weapons that people who didn’t buy, didn’t have access to
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_of_the_Year_Upgrade

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Yes, I played the game. All I’m pointing out here is that the starting weapon you can buy from the store is better than the starting weapon a character gets.

Again, have you seen any starting character with 9 Hammer Mastery?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

And if you feel that selling cosmetics, RNG or not, is worse than the ability to buy your PvP gear and skills from the store

Infinitely worse. If you think deceiving your customers as you make them gamble with hidden odds is better than honestly selling something to your players and telling them exactly what they are paying for, then we have different values.

And do you really think that “buying PvP gear and skills from the store without putting one foot in the PvP area first and then facing someone who hasn’t bought their PvP skills and items but is still in starter gear” is bad? Right, how about buying gold and Black Lion Chests from the Gem Store so you have a high level character with a legendary weapon without playing one minute of the game and then facing in WvW someone who hasn’t bought their levels and items but is still in starter gear?

Or are you going to avoid my question and continue to complain about an imp that people could only use – LOL! – in the tutorial area of most chapters?

Test.8734:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Yes, I played the game. All I’m pointing out here is that the starting weapon you can buy from the store is better than the starting weapon a character gets.

Again, have you seen any starting character with 9 Hammer Mastery?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

And if you feel that selling cosmetics, RNG or not, is worse than the ability to buy your PvP gear and skills from the store

Infinitely worse. If you think deceiving your customers as you make them gamble with hidden odds is better than honestly selling something to your players and telling them exactly what they are paying for, then we have different values.

And do you really think that “buying PvP gear and skills from the store without putting one foot in the PvP area first and then facing someone who hasn’t bought their PvP skills and items but is still in starter gear” is bad? Right, how about buying gold and Black Lion Chests from the Gem Store so you have a high level character with a legendary weapon without playing one minute of the game and then facing in WvW someone who hasn’t bought their levels and items but is still in starter gear?

Or are you going to avoid my question and continue to complain about an imp that people could only use – LOL! – in the tutorial area of most chapters?

I wasn’t complaining about the imp and you have completely missed the point of what I was trying to say.

Since you missed my post where I said it, I’ll say it again.

I’m not saying that the Guild Wars 1 shop was better or worse than the Guild Wars 2 shop. I’m said that both shops were equally bad for the games they sold items to and that in both games the shops hurt the game.

With that argument, since ANet has a history of making bad business plans, asking for the company to change their business plan doesn’t mean the new one will be better and could easily be worse.

Here is my post from up above that you missed.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I’m not arguing that the Guild Wars 2 gemstore doesn’t have problems that impact the game in negative ways. What I’m saying is that the Guild Wars 1 store was bad also, in it’s own way since it allowed you to buypass (pun intended) the game’s core mechanics, which is play to unlock.

Since both stores are bad in their own way and because gw1 model was an expansion based model, I was arguing that just because they change their business model doesn’t mean it will be better.

Look at my signature for what I think.