Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Almighty Dervisher.6720

Almighty Dervisher.6720

Heart of Thorns is a very lackluster Expansion. When we look back at the original Guild Wars Expansions, we can really see why HoT is an insult to the old playerbase. In this comparison, Heart of Thorns will be on the left, while Eye of the North will be on the right.. We’ll use a ratio(colon) to compare what the Expansions have in common, and include what each Expansion offers that is different from the other.

If you don’t want to see my comparison list, you can check the Guild Wars 1/2 Wikis. (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North, https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_2:_Heart_of_Thorns)

Hold on while I get coffee brewing, because this is going to take a long time to do respectfully.

Heart of Thorns : Eye of the North
Cost
$49.99 : $39.99

Features
1 Region : 4 Regions
Mastery System :
Professions
Revenant :
New Skills, per profession
9 ~ 18 : 10, + 50 new PvE only skills including 3 elites (works out to about 15 per profession avg.)
PvP Update : sip, ahh that’s great coffee
GvG Map, Stronghold :
1 new WvW Map :
1 new Siege Weapon :
1 new Guild Hall :
1 new Raid PVE Instance :
New Legendary Equipment Types :
Three new Legendary Weapons :
2 new armor sets : 41 new armor sets
5 new weapon sets :
“many other item skins and miniatures” :
: 10 new Heroes
4 (? Not certain about that, included fractals) : 18 Dungeons
(Non-Defined amount, perhaps HoT player can indulge) : 124 new Quests

and well, the cover comparisons:
GW2
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/5/52/HoT_Texture_Centered_Trans.png/400px-HoT_Texture_Centered_Trans.png
GW1, Eotn
http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/0/08/Eye_of_the_North_Retail_3D_Box.jpg

Yes, Jora is looking quite fine. In memory of Jora: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/f/f8/Jora_statue.jpg
Location: Wurmhowl Spikes, Wayfarer Foothills. Region: Shiverpeak Mountains

Heart of Thorns has: 3 less regions, a Mastery System, the Revenant, 1 less skill per profession avg., a hefty PvP update, Stronghold map, Shield Generator, a new Guild Hall, new Raid PVE Instance, 2 legendary back items and 1 legendary armor set, 39 less Armor sets, 5 more weapon sets, skins and miniatures (which somewhat lighten the 39 less armor sets), a lot less Dungeons, and costs $10 more.

I don’t know about you, but i’d need one fine looking cover to convince me that HoT is worth more than Eye of the North. Especially since the new GvG/WvW map do not compare to 3 new regions.

tl;dr: We knew that Anet stated that expansions were not going to be as hefty, but this is basically 1/3 the content. I compared it to Eye of the North because it’s probably a bit more fair, considering most of the “Campaigns” have more content.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: PyrateSilly.4710

PyrateSilly.4710

I don’t think it’s bad at all. I and everyone I know is having a blast in the expansion so this post is nothing but your own opinion and not based on fact.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Blaine Tog.8304

Blaine Tog.8304

I’m not 100% happy with everything about HoT, but honestly, your comparison is a lot less clear than you’re making it out to be, and not just because you’ve collapsed a lot of the fundamental differences between the two games.

You’ve also neglected to mention one of the biggest selling points of HoT: Elite Specializations, each of which is a much bigger deal than a few extra skills.

I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.

(edited by Blaine Tog.8304)

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

You forgot to write ‘so far’ on the HoT side of the equation.

Once it is complete (as EoTN is), it will be more equitable to compare them.

Good luck.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Almighty Dervisher.6720

Almighty Dervisher.6720

You’ve also neglected to mention one of the biggest selling points of HoT: Elite Specializations, each of which is a much bigger deal than a few extra skills.

Ah so this is what a HoT player is like. You’re ignoring the skills listing, didn’t bother checking the Guild Wars wikis. I listed the Elite Specializations as part of the “Skill per profession”, because it’s almost the exact same thing. Skills are skills, no matter what fancy wording you use.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

The campaigns are completely incomparable or at least in terms of map content. GW1 zones had minimal content per map, it just shoved dozens of maps in with very little content in each, whereas HoT zones have lots of repeatable content. I can also list plenty of expacs with less maps than HoT. Lets not forget Lotro introduced Moria which was one map, yet at the time was regarded as one of the best MMO expacs ever. Subsequent expacs then actually shrunk in size and content..

GW2 and GW1 require vastly different sized development teams and times. GW1 was clearly much easier and more straightforward to develop expacs for and whilst I commend the game for being one of the best ever of it’s genre, comparing it to its sequel is not the right comparison.

As for the cost, well game costs have risen in the in between years. You only have to look at D3 and SC2 expacs to see how expac costs have risen. Stwar Wars Battlefront – £50 for an unfinished game, then ridiculous amounts of money for the maps that should have been in from the start. OK, off topic slightly, but the standard pricing for video games has risen along with costs involved. COmparing EOTN price with HoT is again a poor comparison.

If you want to make comparisons, then compare HoT to its contemporaries like TESO or FF14 and see if or how their expacs enhanced their respective games, but not by comparing GW2 to an old, different and significantly cheaper to develop for game.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Almighty Dervisher.6720

Almighty Dervisher.6720

You forgot to write ‘so far’ on the HoT side of the equation.

Once it is complete (as EoTN is), it will be more equitable to compare them.

Good luck.

Well it’s been 3+ years since Guild Wars 2 has been released. Still waiting on their re-design of basically all of the bosses in GW2. Have yet to see that happen, so good luck with the HoT additions.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Almighty Dervisher.6720

Almighty Dervisher.6720

If you want to make comparisons, then compare HoT to its contemporaries like TESO or FF14 and see if or how their expacs enhanced their respective games, but not by comparing GW2 to an old, different and significantly cheaper to develop for game.

So DirectX 9 is more difficult to develop in than DirectX 8? Seems kind of backwards of what updates usually result in, but i’ll take your word for it. I guess all of the money that were backing them up in comparison to when they began developing Guild Wars 1 isn’t enough.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Tachi.7361

Tachi.7361

“2 new armor sets : 41 new armor sets”

…Okay, one side of this needs to change. Either you count different versions of a single armour set separately or you don’t.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

You forgot to write ‘so far’ on the HoT side of the equation.

Once it is complete (as EoTN is), it will be more equitable to compare them.

Good luck.

Well it’s been 3+ years since Guild Wars 2 has been released. Still waiting on their re-design of basically all of the bosses in GW2. Have yet to see that happen, so good luck with the HoT additions.

The re-design happened. Whether you like it or not is a different matter, but the following bosses received updates to mechanics

- Tequatl
- Jormag (very minor though to fix exploits)
- Golem
- Wurm
- Maw
- Behe
- Shatterer

Sure, more could be done, but they still did updates to bring them to where they wanted to be. I think the main argument has been that Shatterer wasn’t updated anywhere near enough and I agree wit that.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

No luck needed. More Raids will be released, LS3, and all the content updates just as those we’ve been enjoying these past 3 years.

I’m not sure how a re-design of existing content is applicable to the comparisons; but, I guess I’m still waiting for the rest of Guild Wars: Beyond, if we are really comparing content that didn’t finish getting updated.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

If you want to make comparisons, then compare HoT to its contemporaries like TESO or FF14 and see if or how their expacs enhanced their respective games, but not by comparing GW2 to an old, different and significantly cheaper to develop for game.

So DirectX 9 is more difficult to develop in than DirectX 8? Seems kind of backwards of what updates usually result in, but i’ll take your word for it. I guess all of the money that were backing them up in comparison to when they began developing Guild Wars 1 isn’t enough.

It is a vastly different style of game and even the developers have said it is significantly harder to code for for what they are trying to do with GW2 vs GW1. Also remember, we have had 2 seasons of story in between where money has been invested. GW1 did not have in-between content seasons to develop as well.

I am not disputing HoT has issues. I am disputing the comparison being used. GW1 is the wrong game to compare to in so many ways.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Almighty Dervisher.6720

Almighty Dervisher.6720

The re-design happened. Whether you like it or not is a different matter, but the following bosses received updates to mechanics

- Tequatl
- Jormag (very minor though to fix exploits)
- Golem
- Wurm
- Maw
- Behe
- Shatterer

Sure, more could be done, but they still did updates to bring them to where they wanted to be. I think the main argument has been that Shatterer wasn’t updated anywhere near enough and I agree wit that.

Tequatl: Still stand on right leg, press 1.
Jormag’s Claw: Still bugged for apparently an entire year, wings don’t detach from it when it lands. I’m uncertain if most of you remember how Jormag’s Claw used to work “properly”.
Golem: Seems about the same. I didn’t boss much a few years ago so i’ll assume it’s doing okay, because it’s the only boss in this list that plays somewhat decently considering it doesn’t move at all. Probably one of the exceptions i’d make, where it makes sense that the Golem doesn’t move.

Wurm: People fight that? Haha.
Maw: Yeah, seems about the same. All that happened is now those who use meelee are more likely to get slapped in the face. Kind of like Taidha. Anyone who has a bit of knowledge about the bosses will use a ranged weapon.

Behemoth: Another one of those bosses where not moving makes some sense. The rare time when it doesn’t get reset because the portals take too long to get taken down, the Behemoth does some okay things. It almost always uses its claws, which sometimes manage to down players. Other than that not much to see from Behemoth.

The Shatterer: Well I don’t know which is more annoying. The fact this boss has room to move around and use its skills and doesn’t, or those people who think The Shatterer is Kralkatorrik. This boss is always a party on the hill to the right of its foot, while we chat about what The Shatterer looks like/does.

“Hey guys, it’s Ivan Ooze!”
“Hey Shatterer, we’re over here!”
“Let’s give Shatnerer a nail clipping”
“Okay everyone, press 1!”
“There’s something in the water!”
Oh wait, how’d that one get here…

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: thehipone.6812

thehipone.6812

IMO A comparison to Factions is probably more appropriate, even if the nomenclature of campaign vs. expansion gets a bit crossed. When compared to Factions (which was in the $40-50 range if I remember), HoT gets blown out of the water:
2 classes, 4 guild halls, ALL OF CANTHA, Alliance battles, Jade Quarry and Fort Aspenwood, popular skins like Echovald and dragon staff, 3 elite armor sets plus however many others, 2 “raids” Urgoz and the Deep and a pretty decent box.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Factions

Also – Although there are some significant differences, EotN rep titles could be considered a predecessor to the mastery system. Although I can’t remember if the titles actually gated anything in EotN, I know there was a mission in Factions where you needed to get a certain amount of rep. The EotN ones were mostly fun and “extras”, aside from the few that were super powerful and everybody used. Long live Ursanway!

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Almighty Dervisher.6720

Almighty Dervisher.6720

I am not disputing HoT has issues. I am disputing the comparison being used. GW1 is the wrong game to compare to in so many ways.

By that logic, no one should ever compare how they are doing compared to how they used to perform. Then the world would never improve. Guild Wars is the perfect game to compare Guild Wars 2, because it’s the successor of Guild Wars 2. At the very least, it’s a design sibling/child.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

I am not disputing HoT has issues. I am disputing the comparison being used. GW1 is the wrong game to compare to in so many ways.

By that logic, no one should ever compare how they are doing compared to how they used to perform. Then the world would never improve. Guild Wars is the perfect game to compare Guild Wars 2, because it’s the successor of Guild Wars 2. At the very least, it’s a design sibling/child.

Except its a different type of game with different costs and approaches required. People (generally) don’t compare WoW to WC. Nor any other game where the original and sequel changed tack and genre. The GW1 to GW2 argument has been done to death over the last 3 years and most people have understood the comparison doesn’t fit. Even those comparers which are fair and bias free and aren’t out to prove one side is better, have understood the comparison has little value.

Also I don’t disagree with you about the bosses not being improved enough – I regard that as valid feedback, but you specifically said they hadn’t been done, when they had and that was what my reply directed to.

(edited by Randulf.7614)

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Manthas.6234

Manthas.6234

To be more accurate try to give ratio between what was released at vanilla and at expansion. For example HoT increased number of armor skins by 10% and EotN by 40%.
This way, you’ll be comparing how much each expansion improved the base game.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Almighty Dervisher.6720

Almighty Dervisher.6720

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

Okay, you keep telling yourself that.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: sazberryftw.3809

sazberryftw.3809

All I see is a bunch of things HoT gave us with no comparison to anything in EotN? OP’s main post makes out you’re for HoT not against…

How can people still be caught up comparing GW2 to GW1 content? People need to take their nostalgia hats off and look at GW1 for what it really is. Both GW2 and HoT are not perfect and there’s things I want to see and changes I want to see, but going back in time is not the right direction here.

A few things we may think we like about GW1/EotN but really we didn’t:
- All those skills they added and being able to pick whichever whoever you are. In comparison to GW2, this just meant GW1 had MORE useless skills that nobody used. It rarely created build diversity and there was still a meta.
- All those quests you mentioned. We were given “124 new quests” that all consisted of boring text windows with side info.
- More regions. Less diverse and complex zones. Essentially single player. Flat.

I loved GW1 and I loved EotN. I had a lot of fun back then, I played it as avidly as I do GW2 now. But do I want a EotN style expansion for GW2? Hell no. We’re in 2016, I don’t want that old MMO crap.

On a list, HoT may have ‘less content’ but just look at how complex and detailed that content is. Sure, the story telling was damp and we want more fractals but just LOOK at how diverse and incredible the 4 Maguma zones are. HOW can you compare those zones to EotN’s flat, idle, empty map design?

The only thing HoT should be compared to is similar games on the market right now, today, up to date.

| Lithia |

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: thehipone.6812

thehipone.6812

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.

(edited by thehipone.6812)

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.

I don’t think comparing quests to PoIs, in terms of exploration is an accurate thing to do. GW2 Events are supposed to be what quests where in EotN. Both are technically part of exploration. So if we wish to count EotN quests, then we need to tally up and included all of the new events in HoT. (Do we even have a list of all of them on wiki yet?)

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: thehipone.6812

thehipone.6812

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.

I don’t think comparing quests to PoIs, in terms of exploration is an accurate thing to do. GW2 Events are supposed to be what quests where in EotN. Both are technically part of exploration. So if we wish to count EotN quests, then we need to tally up and included all of the new events in HoT. (Do we even have a list of all of them on wiki yet?)

Point was – there was plenty of stuff to explore and find, except it just wasn’t marked with a dot on the map. His “calculation” is not nearly quantitative and it can’t be. there were certainly impressive vistas in EotN, but you didn’t have to push F.

And if we’re counting events, then do EotN boss packs count? There’s plenty of GW2 events that are just “kill this champ/vet”. What about the “rabbit hole” in Drakkar Lake? That’s certainly like an event.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

3 years of almost 0 improvement on a lot of things in GW2, which has been in development for a lot longer than that.

0 improvements? Are you even talking about GW2 now? Either you have very short memory or you started playing yesterday.

If the differences are minor and the additions are some renamed & sort of added features/events, then there’s been very little improvement of the game design in the past 10 years. Which is kind of terrible.

And it has nothing to do with comparing HoT and EotN

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.

I don’t think comparing quests to PoIs, in terms of exploration is an accurate thing to do. GW2 Events are supposed to be what quests where in EotN. Both are technically part of exploration. So if we wish to count EotN quests, then we need to tally up and included all of the new events in HoT. (Do we even have a list of all of them on wiki yet?)

Point was – there was plenty of stuff to explore and find, except it just wasn’t marked with a dot on the map. His “calculation” is not nearly quantitative and it can’t be. there were certainly impressive vistas in EotN, but you didn’t have to push F.

And if we’re counting events, then do EotN boss packs count? There’s plenty of GW2 events that are just “kill this champ/vet”. What about the “rabbit hole” in Drakkar Lake? That’s certainly like an event.

I didn’t count quests for exploration because they’d be compared to events. Unfortunately at the time of that post I didn’t have all the data of HoT events so I skipped it.

EotN added 124 quests. There are 58 different events in VB (not counting Nighttime defend/kill multiple times), 47 in AB, 64 in TD and still no info on DS on the wiki. Anyway just from that we have 169 dynamic events added in HoT. Still more than the 124 quests added in EotN.

You might say that things can’t be compared, sure but then say it to those that claim EotN gave more than HoT did first.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.

I don’t think comparing quests to PoIs, in terms of exploration is an accurate thing to do. GW2 Events are supposed to be what quests where in EotN. Both are technically part of exploration. So if we wish to count EotN quests, then we need to tally up and included all of the new events in HoT. (Do we even have a list of all of them on wiki yet?)

Point was – there was plenty of stuff to explore and find, except it just wasn’t marked with a dot on the map. His “calculation” is not nearly quantitative and it can’t be. there were certainly impressive vistas in EotN, but you didn’t have to push F.

And if we’re counting events, then do EotN boss packs count? There’s plenty of GW2 events that are just “kill this champ/vet”. What about the “rabbit hole” in Drakkar Lake? That’s certainly like an event.

No comparison is accurate, honestly. Apples and Oranges, our two games. But people try. shrug

I’m on the fence on whether boss packs should count or not. I mean, we do have similar things in GW2 that don’t trigger events too, as well as (as you pointed out) ones that do. Should both then count here as well given that we are counting non-quest event-like components of EotN? Or do we limit it to “actual quests” and “actual events”? And then, there is the whole subjective component to take into consideration.

Too much headache is you ask me. Better questions people should be asking are simply: Do you enjoy it? Do you feel you got your moneys worth out of it? Very simple yes or no questions. If the answer is “no” to either of them, then an evaluation of why one feels that way is indeed in order; however, simply saying ‘well this game gave me this’ is not the way to do it. Because this is not that game.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Almighty Dervisher.6720

Almighty Dervisher.6720

0 improvements? Are you even talking about GW2 now? Either you have very short memory or you started playing yesterday.

Ever seen League of Legends and balance patches? That isn’t fixing the game, it’s stemming a never-ending design problem. A limited developer creates limited things, and ends up having to “patch” them later on. It’s more profitable (with the least effort) to throw out a pile of trash and promise it’s going to be great, than actually create something great.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.

They should have counted the number of events added with HoT and compared them to the 124 quests in EotN. They still can.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: ProtoGunner.4953

ProtoGunner.4953

Mindless comparison. You really want to make everything worse for GW2 and better for GW1 while neglecting anything good for GW2 and anything bad for GW1.

Eye of the North:
- Lots of copy paste dungeons (same ‘floors’, just different enemies)
- Explorable zones were very primitive compared to the huge complex metaevents we have in HOT
- Verticallity, you couldn’t even jump down a slope in GW1, lots of the areas were just there to watch, very simple structure.
- no world bosses
- no collections
- no legendaries at all
- lots of armors were reskinned from old skins – this caused a minor outrage in the forums
- ‘heroes’ were just skins with the same AI than those introduced in Nightfall
- no raids

You also ignore the living world which will be free – or let’s say – part of the expansion you paid for, new raid wings, new raids and individual rewards.

And yes, I think, too, the content is a bit little. There should be more armor skins, a longer story/campaign and more maps. But we will get more during this and next year.

‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.

They should have counted the number of events added with HoT and compared them to the 124 quests in EotN. They still can.

Looks like there are 58 events in VB alone…

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: thehipone.6812

thehipone.6812

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.

I don’t think comparing quests to PoIs, in terms of exploration is an accurate thing to do. GW2 Events are supposed to be what quests where in EotN. Both are technically part of exploration. So if we wish to count EotN quests, then we need to tally up and included all of the new events in HoT. (Do we even have a list of all of them on wiki yet?)

Point was – there was plenty of stuff to explore and find, except it just wasn’t marked with a dot on the map. His “calculation” is not nearly quantitative and it can’t be. there were certainly impressive vistas in EotN, but you didn’t have to push F.

And if we’re counting events, then do EotN boss packs count? There’s plenty of GW2 events that are just “kill this champ/vet”. What about the “rabbit hole” in Drakkar Lake? That’s certainly like an event.

No comparison is accurate, honestly. Apples and Oranges, our two games. But people try. shrug

I’m on the fence on whether boss packs should count or not. I mean, we do have similar things in GW2 that don’t trigger events too, as well as (as you pointed out) ones that do. Should both then count here as well given that we are counting non-quest event-like components of EotN? Or do we limit it to “actual quests” and “actual events”? And then, there is the whole subjective component to take into consideration.

Too much headache is you ask me. Better questions people should be asking are simply: Do you enjoy it? Do you feel you got your moneys worth out of it? Very simple yes or no questions. If the answer is “no” to either of them, then an evaluation of why one feels that way is indeed in order; however, simply saying ‘well this game gave me this’ is not the way to do it. Because this is not that game.

Right, we’re actually on the same side of the argument – it’s somewhat silly to “compare” at this level of detail. My questions were merely rhetorical.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

Not this thread again…

I made a more complete comparison in another thread (or rather an actual comparison since yours isn’t comparing anything)

Here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-living-world-season-3/first#post5764319

The tl:dr:

Exploration: HoT: 238, EotN: 98
Skills: HoT: 418, EotN: 150
Skins: HoT: 563, EotN: 403

Eotn was less than half of HoT and HoT is just 10$ more.

I like how you count HoT points of interest as exploration “content” but then completely ignore 124 quests and other stuff like Oggy from EotN.

I don’t think comparing quests to PoIs, in terms of exploration is an accurate thing to do. GW2 Events are supposed to be what quests where in EotN. Both are technically part of exploration. So if we wish to count EotN quests, then we need to tally up and included all of the new events in HoT. (Do we even have a list of all of them on wiki yet?)

Point was – there was plenty of stuff to explore and find, except it just wasn’t marked with a dot on the map. His “calculation” is not nearly quantitative and it can’t be. there were certainly impressive vistas in EotN, but you didn’t have to push F.

And if we’re counting events, then do EotN boss packs count? There’s plenty of GW2 events that are just “kill this champ/vet”. What about the “rabbit hole” in Drakkar Lake? That’s certainly like an event.

No comparison is accurate, honestly. Apples and Oranges, our two games. But people try. shrug

I’m on the fence on whether boss packs should count or not. I mean, we do have similar things in GW2 that don’t trigger events too, as well as (as you pointed out) ones that do. Should both then count here as well given that we are counting non-quest event-like components of EotN? Or do we limit it to “actual quests” and “actual events”? And then, there is the whole subjective component to take into consideration.

Too much headache is you ask me. Better questions people should be asking are simply: Do you enjoy it? Do you feel you got your moneys worth out of it? Very simple yes or no questions. If the answer is “no” to either of them, then an evaluation of why one feels that way is indeed in order; however, simply saying ‘well this game gave me this’ is not the way to do it. Because this is not that game.

Right, we’re actually on the same side of the argument – it’s somewhat silly to “compare” at this level of detail. My questions were merely rhetorical.

Just covering all the bases

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Steeldragon.7308

Steeldragon.7308

tl;dr: We knew that Anet stated that expansions were not going to be as hefty…

Well, there you go.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: sarasvatri.6871

sarasvatri.6871

You’re not as pretty when your bias is showing.

Also, $39.99 adjusted for inflation is $45.77. FYI.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Tspatula.9086

Tspatula.9086

Well, it’s not as terrible as sometime I think it is, but here is how I see it:
4 new maps -pretty good
elite specs -unbalanced but ok assuming a lot of balancing
Guild halls -great idea, very poor implementation once you get past the size of the area and a massive gold sink.
Scribe -disaster, worse than not having guild halls and the other “benefits”
Raid -probably ok, only stepped into it a little so far
Rewards….. it’s pretty clear that part of the major expansion, was reduction in the amount of gold in the economy. Dungeons nerfed, Ascended crafting much more expensive, Fractals -super nerf, now just major nerf, scribe -gold vacuum, guild halls -gold sink, and…..

Map currencies…. I have plenty of all 4 of them…. I don’t see anything I really am interested in getting with the currencies. A lot of recipies that are going to be super expensive to craft as well, now we have the HoT economy and everything is more expensive

collections, legendaries, achievments… grind grind grind.

Since there isn’t much in the map rewards vendor list for currencies I probably won’t try much more to exactly time my entry into a map to start work…. I mean to start my task to get my job done on time… I mean to have…..fun? The new maps aren’t really worth entering without doing the main meta events no matter how fun gliding is or how beautiful they are….

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Blaine Tog.8304

Blaine Tog.8304

Ah so this is what a HoT player is like.

I’m sorry, do I need to provide my provenance? I played in the GW1 beta, and continued to play GW1 for seven years after its release. I’ve also been playing GW2 since release day (I did play in the beta, but only for an hour or so so I don’t usually bother mentioning it). My experience with HoT has been rocky and though I like certain things it’s added to the game, I also think ANet screwed the pooch on a number of points and I’m not entirely happy with the direction the game has gone.

However, that doesn’t mean that I’m going to agree with every criticism of it. In the case of your criticism, I disagree with such a reductionist approach.

You’re ignoring the skills listing, didn’t bother checking the Guild Wars wikis.

I’m not ignoring the skill listings. I’m making the argument that they are inadequate on their own to explain the impact an Elite Specialization has. You are oversimplifying. I didn’t bother to check the wikis because I already know what they contain, and in any case I’m not inclined to do homework before commenting on a post that I don’t think is particularly well thought-out in the first place.

I listed the Elite Specializations as part of the “Skill per profession”, because it’s almost the exact same thing. Skills are skills, no matter what fancy wording you use.

Except GW2 professions are more than just their skills. Weapon skills interact with a profession differently from Utility skills, for one thing, both of which interact with it differently from changes to profession mechanics. Furthermore, each Elite Specialization comes with a unique set of traits which alter (sometimes radically) the way the profession is played.

I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: sarasvatri.6871

sarasvatri.6871

I mean to start my task to get my job done on time… I mean to have…..fun? The new maps aren’t really worth entering without doing the main meta events no matter how fun gliding is or how beautiful they are….

You’ve been talking about how unfun this game is and how terrible ANet is for more than a year and yet… Here you are? Interesting.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Tspatula.9086

Tspatula.9086

I mean to start my task to get my job done on time… I mean to have…..fun? The new maps aren’t really worth entering without doing the main meta events no matter how fun gliding is or how beautiful they are….

You’ve been talking about how unfun this game is and how terrible ANet is for more than a year and yet… Here you are? Interesting.

Well, it’s sort of relationship where you keep thinking things are going to change, and you hold out for that maybe too long… This mostly has to do with WvW, my primary interest. Back when I first started playing I found the dodge or die mechanic to be frustrating, but it’s not as bad now that I can dodge and not die. But I have never been a huge fan of that knife-edge aspect of more difficult PvE encounters. Certainly, the last couple of months of PvE experience has be greatly improved with the new maps, and elite specializations, but I am just getting to the point where the masteries are at the challenge-grind stage, and the reality that there isn’t much that I really want or need from the 4 map currencies does take some of the fun out of them…

WvW, my main reason to play got Shreked. I waited for HoT specializations to stabilize before crafting ascended armor… Oops! Welcome the new HoT economy… Was that supposed to improve my experience after buying HoT?

So you don’t think Anet has really dropped the ball here, at least on WvW? Oh and Guild halls, and Scribing? Ok, there is talk about a “WvW Overhaul” but even the very very simple band-aids that Gaile posted about in December aren’t even close enough to announce exactly what they will be after our “feedback” or anything even remotely close to a date, “Early 2016” covers now until the middle of March…

(edited by Tspatula.9086)

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Tumult.2578

Tumult.2578

Interesting thread. Never played GW1. Wish I had.
You may have been much more successful in stating the differences if you had included the effects of HoT on the core game, which was devastating on a lot of players, and the effect of guild halls, which IN MY OPINION has caused a lot of players to leave.
I believe the true picture will surface soon. Either the hard core players will continue to stick with the HoT content for a long time, and continue to fund the gem shop long term, or not. The question to me becomes “Will the casual players stick around and fund the cash shop, until we see how quickly the hard core players tire of HoT content and move on.”
No news on new “Free to play” players buying HoT, is not encouraging though.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: weskay.9217

weskay.9217

Whether or not his list is 100% accurate, from a GW1 player, he isn’t wrong. While I am enjoying HoT for the most part, the novelty is quickly wearing off on me to the point where I am losing interest very quickly. GW1 and its expansion did not lose my interest nearly as quick.

What I think is the problem? Well I think it’s ArenaNet’s decision to “postpone” the expansion’s content in segments. Releasing all of the content all at once similar to GW1’s expansion would give the players the freedom to play the content at their leisure. Play as fast or as slow as you want. Yes, the people that sail through it will get bored quicker but not as quick as how their system is now. If people are kept waiting too long in between content releases, people are less likely to return back to those.

At the end of the day, however, ArenaNet has its money and as unfortunate as it is to say, the company is not like it once was in GW1. Money > Player Satisfaction it seems lately.

www.vanquishing.enjin.com

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Yargesh.4965

Yargesh.4965

It takes a really, really long time to sink in that this is not GW1 doesn’kitten

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

It takes a really, really long time to sink in that this is not GW1 doesn’kitten

Nah… some of us came to the realization in the first 30 – 60 days. Doesn’t mean we stop hoping though.

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: laokoko.7403

laokoko.7403

I didn’t play GW1 but GW2 have a lot more staff.

So if you are telling me GW2 is purposely trying to sell a lesser product than GW1, I dont’ think so. Because they actually spend more resource.

But why it didn’t live up to “your” expectation, I really don’t know. Maybe because Anet spend too much time updating regularly. Or GW1 some how are better at managing resource etc.

But one thing about GW1 is when I tried it, I felt it is a dump down game. Dump down as in I felt they didn’t spend much resource on the “non-important” thing. But focus on the important things.

(edited by laokoko.7403)

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

You lost me the moment you compared the price of an eight year old game with the price of today’s game. Heart of Thorns if you count for inflation and production costs is probably cheaper than Eye of the North to start with.

Eye of the North didn’t really add anything like gliding to the mix either, which is a big game changer for a lot of us. It didn’t really add a different way to play each of the existing professions. And while I really did like Eye of the North, I like HoT quite a bit more.

Also quests in Guild Wars 1 compare to dynamic events in Guild Wars 2. So how many dynamic events are there?

Of course Eye didn’t add a new profession either.

The expansions actually accomplish completely different things. But there’s another difference. The difference in the market and the cost of making games.

Trying to compare a game made 8 years ago with a game made today in a completely different climate is pretty much a waste of time. You can do it, but it won’t really get you anywhere.

Older games were different than games today. I could compare something like Ultima 4 with most of today’s games and they’d be completely different too. In some ways, Ultima 4 was a better game if you liked to think and work things out.

On the other hand, if I had something like Dulfy for Ultima 4 it would have taken me a few days instead of a few months.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Kaiyanwan.8521

Kaiyanwan.8521

Comparing indeed doesn’t help very much.

People feel different about games today. Is HoT a great expansion? Nope. It is very lackluster in matters of content and story. That is what many people complain about.

HoT is a step back from the game design of the original GW2, with events being on rails instead of being dynamic. That is one reason why the new maps all feel boring after a short amount of time (maybe not to all people, but hey, don’t tell me the maps are not repetative).
This is getting worse from map to map. VB has at least a great amount of events, then you get to AB, where events are limited to three hubs. Then you get to TD and suddenly, events are a rare things here and there. Last and least you get to DS, where you have three lanes which all play the same, but if you have finished these lanes, you have seen everything on the map.

The maps get less interesting while you progress in HoT. Which is an abysmal design choice. The more you progress the more boring the game gets.

So what matters is what you get. HoT did not give us enough.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Comparing indeed doesn’t help very much.

People feel different about games today. Is HoT a great expansion? Nope. It is very lackluster in matters of content and story. That is what many people complain about.

HoT is a step back from the game design of the original GW2, with events being on rails instead of being dynamic. That is one reason why the new maps all feel boring after a short amount of time (maybe not to all people, but hey, don’t tell me the maps are not repetative).
This is getting worse from map to map. VB has at least a great amount of events, then you get to AB, where events are limited to three hubs. Then you get to TD and suddenly, events are a rare things here and there. Last and least you get to DS, where you have three lanes which all play the same, but if you have finished these lanes, you have seen everything on the map.

The maps get less interesting while you progress in HoT. Which is an abysmal design choice. The more you progress the more boring the game gets.

So what matters is what you get. HoT did not give us enough.

My opinion is quite different from this. I think HoT is some of the best content in the game, because it’s not braindead easy.

Sure there was a great variety of quests in early zones, but they are, for the most part, mindless. They’re fine if I want to relax and chill.

I’ve done temple events many times, and I don’t find them boring, nor do I find the HoT events boring, even if there aren’t a million of them. In fact, there are a whole lot of people that enjoy the Dragon Stand meta event, for all you claim that you’ve seen it all.

Doing an escort quest in Kessex and kill centaurs, isn’t significantly different from doing an escort quest elsewhere and killing bandits.

But stuff like gliding really opens up the new maps and I find them, over all, more enjoyable than the original maps.

The AI is better, which is good. The creatures are harder, which I like. And learning how to get around is fun.

As for the story being lackluster, I’ll agree it’s short, but I didn’t find it particularly lackluster. And certainly the delivery of the story is better than what we’ve seen so far…in my opinion.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Phy.2913

Phy.2913

People tend to ignore that HOT isn’t done, there’s going to be more content added, more balancing, and plenty more things to complain about.

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

I only have two metrics that I use to compare games:

  • Is it fun?
  • Does the fun last?

EotN was fun. It was not as much fun for the second or fourth character, except for learning to master the dungeons (and later the bounties/dailies) with only heroes, but that was definitely grinding for a random (tiny) chance of a nice reward.0

HoT is fun. So far (for me) it’s more fun having more characters and so far, I find, I’m not doing the exact same set of things each night.

So by my metrics, HoT is the better expansion.

The thing is: I never went anywhere in EotN unless it was to repeat a dungeon/mission; there wasn’t any sort of depth to the new zones. And while GW1 had a gazillion more skills than GW2, most of them were never worth slotting. So comparing the number of zones or the number of skills is, to me, just a bookkeeping task; it doesn’t convey any of the joy (or tedium) of the game.

tl;dr if you don’t like HoT, you can just say you don’t like it; it’s not necessary to shoehorn a convoluted comparison to justify disappointment.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I only have two metrics that I use to compare games:

  • Is it fun?
  • Does the fun last?

EotN was fun. It was not as much fun for the second or fourth character, except for learning to master the dungeons (and later the bounties/dailies) with only heroes, but that was definitely grinding for a random (tiny) chance of a nice reward.0

HoT is fun. So far (for me) it’s more fun having more characters and so far, I find, I’m not doing the exact same set of things each night.

So by my metrics, HoT is the better expansion.

The thing is: I never went anywhere in EotN unless it was to repeat a dungeon/mission; there wasn’t any sort of depth to the new zones. And while GW1 had a gazillion more skills than GW2, most of them were never worth slotting. So comparing the number of zones or the number of skills is, to me, just a bookkeeping task; it doesn’t convey any of the joy (or tedium) of the game.

tl;dr if you don’t like HoT, you can just say you don’t like it; it’s not necessary to shoehorn a convoluted comparison to justify disappointment.

On the other hand, Eye of the North had Livia, so there is there. lol

Comparison: Eye of the North and HoT

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: LanfearShadowflame.3189

LanfearShadowflame.3189

I only have two metrics that I use to compare games:

  • Is it fun?
  • Does the fun last?

EotN was fun. It was not as much fun for the second or fourth character, except for learning to master the dungeons (and later the bounties/dailies) with only heroes, but that was definitely grinding for a random (tiny) chance of a nice reward.0

HoT is fun. So far (for me) it’s more fun having more characters and so far, I find, I’m not doing the exact same set of things each night.

So by my metrics, HoT is the better expansion.

The thing is: I never went anywhere in EotN unless it was to repeat a dungeon/mission; there wasn’t any sort of depth to the new zones. And while GW1 had a gazillion more skills than GW2, most of them were never worth slotting. So comparing the number of zones or the number of skills is, to me, just a bookkeeping task; it doesn’t convey any of the joy (or tedium) of the game.

tl;dr if you don’t like HoT, you can just say you don’t like it; it’s not necessary to shoehorn a convoluted comparison to justify disappointment.

On the other hand, Eye of the North had Livia, so there is there. lol

Ah Livia….. such nostalgia, much love. Now if only I could have stole her clothes….

Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.