Guild Wars 2

From what i’ve seen so far none of the current elite specialization would really make it into the current PvE Meta. I know people always say the meta is changeing and stuff, but the current dungeons will also be playable after HoT drops and there is still a rather big community out there who like it. (Chronomancer maybe, because who could say no to 2 time warps etc…).

A lot of the new traits seem to be really specific and won’t always have an valid alternative to change to. But no matter what you play, you cant say no to damage^^, so why not add some mechanic specific dps multiplyer to the traitlines?

Some ideas:
Tempest:
+dmg for 10 seconds after overcharging an attunement.
+dmg for each aura on you

Dragonhunter:
Well actually dragonhunter already has dmg traits, which are just not usefull (>600 range… so guard will have to play LB + scepter and camp ranged?).
Vs. Crippled foes: guard its self has only one way of applying cripple: knock back, and oh boy havn’t we already had enough ranger LB 4s?
Ok can’t say much about the big game hunter, this one seems quite nice.

Chronomancer:
+dmg while under the effect of alacrity
+dmg while in continuum split

Reaper:
+dmg while in melee range
+ dmg to chilled targets

PS: As it is already quite easy to reach 100% crit rate and anything further is just for nothing, I can’t really start liking the crit rate ups which are too specific. Either they are solid enough to totally relly on them, like revenants improved crit rate under fury,guards 1 Handed mastery or thiefs “hidden Killer”. Or it’s just not worth taking them as a zerk character

As general rule of logic, new mechanics tend to utterly brake old content not designed to support it. This goes double for Elite specializations, as they are expressly designed to subvert the existing PvE meta, and be used against other enemies who also utilize new mechanics that match them.

I take it you’ve never played collectable games, or MOBAs. Both of these are examples of planned obsolescence, whose previous incarnations are superseded, or often easily defeated by a newer mechanic. In order to maintain relevance, old systems have to be updated to the new system in order to account for the new mechanics in the balancing scheme.

So unless existing dungeons get a ground up Encounter revamp, then the new Elite specs are either incompatible, or vastly superior to the existing mechanics that govern it.

OP, uhmmm…..NO.
The last patch already greatly increased the damages of every classes of the game, so adding more damage would be too much and wouldn’t make the content of HOT hard enough nor challenging enough….
As for the chronomancer, since mesmer is my main, I could clearly see mesmers going domi, dueling and chrono: we already have the damage modifier in dueling, we go shatterer in GM domi, and use superspeed in adept on illusion shatter, alacrity 33% higher duration in master and phantasm respawn on shattering the first time for grandmaster.
As for the runes, I hope they will introduce new ones that will benefit the elite specs

starlinvf.1358:

So unless existing dungeons get a ground up Encounter revamp, then the new Elite specs are either incompatible, or vastly superior to the existing mechanics that govern it.

Yep, that’s exactly what i’m saying. But the problem with dungeons atm is: Dmg is all that matters and all the elit specialization revealed so far had their focus clearly somewhere else, which means it’s unlikely that elite specs will break dungeons.

flog.3485:

The last patch already greatly increased the damages of every classes of the game, so adding more damage would be too much and wouldn’t make the content of HOT hard enough nor challenging enough….

I also agree with your statement. I’m definitly against another dmg buff! What I wanted to say is that I want the new elite specialisations to be on a par with current specializations. Because the current meta ( which simply is about dmg maximization, and only takes support traits if it’s also a dps increase e.g. Water on Elementalist – this kind of thinking will NEVER change, although it may shift a bit) has it’s legitimation. So if you want to take an elite specialisation with mediocre Support and a fun playstile, I at least don’t want it to be a huge dps loss.

Lets nerf the current OTT PvE damage traits. Some classes can get over 40% extra damage from static trait buffs.

I think unconditional damage traits shouldn’t even exist, and the remaining conditional damage boost (extra dmg against vulnerable/burning/blind/whatever) should be spread around equally in specializations.
For PVE this could provide slighly more variety, or close the gap between the meta and other builds (not counting gear).

Think about it for a bit.

starlinvf.1358:

So unless existing dungeons get a ground up Encounter revamp, then the new Elite specs are either incompatible, or vastly superior to the existing mechanics that govern it.

Dont have much to add to thread as I am sure everything will b nerfed/tweaked in the weeks to come before and after HoT, but I do believe I heard that AI mechanics that were developed with the HoT were also going to find some implementation in Pact Tyria. Not a quote, but I’m sure I heard/read it some where. Not a fan of dmg buffs though, only because the risk/reward scale is unbalanced, right now.

I find damage modifying traits to be the most boring type to be honest and I wouldnt complain of they were removed provided they are all removed at the same time. Another thing is that you always see people complaining about ‘passive proc’ traits but no one complains about these..

no, more power creep isn’t needed.

“I also agree with your statement. I’m definitly against another dmg buff! What I wanted to say is that I want the new elite specialisations to be on a par with current specializations. Because the current meta ( which simply is about dmg maximization, and only takes support traits if it’s also a dps increase e.g. Water on Elementalist – this kind of thinking will NEVER change, although it may shift a bit) has it’s legitimation. So if you want to take an elite specialisation with mediocre Support and a fun playstile, I at least don’t want it to be a huge dps loss.”

Honestly making less damages with elite specializations is not that important because since it is new people will still play those anyway. What matters most here is how these specializations are gonna interact with core specializations and other elite specializations of all classes.
The way I see it is that Anet introduced these recent changes in order for elites to be on par with damages of core specializations. If they make elites too strong all people will only play speciazlizations and it will eventually create a gap between players accessing elites and those who are levelling-up: that would be a really bad move from Anet.

Well, the big problem right now is that only a few classes have intuitive trait synergy. And the Guardian, by a wide margin, is both the easiest to understand, and has among the strongest cross trait utility synergy (meaning every trait line can either directly or indirectly affect the majority of skills available to the class).

So far, the Elite specs appear to be very self contained. The implications of this are actually very weird feeling between the classes. Classes that have strong cross trait synergy will be ok; as well classes that have strongly independent traits. But the ones that will hurt the most from this are classes which have scattered synergy.

Engineer is one such class, as each line is dedicated toward specific subsets of the class, but the class’s build methodology heavily incorporates mixing these mechanics. Tools is practically mandatory as several of their strongest utility traits are found there. However, the remaining trait lines are theme focused, but very mechanically lop sided when it comes to functional distribution. In the current setup, a build requires 2 traits lines to support one function, but the secondary functions of those trait lines otherwise go to waste. But whats weird is that a 3rd trait should fit to support 2 full functions, but for some reason doesn’t work that way in practice. I suspect part of that is the heavily reliance on utility slots for basic functionality from Kits- which leaves very little room to stack utilities for secondary functions. If Forge is as self contained as I suspect it is, it’ll allow Engineers to get more mileage out of the remaining 2 trait slots, but will have fewer practical options in the process.

Passive 10% damage traits are boring as snot, both mechanically and balance-wise.

They don’t do anything. They don’t change your playstyle, they don’t give you new tools, they don’t add functionality to your existing tools. I would be overjoyed if every single major +x% damage trait vanished and was replaced with something that actually had impact or flair.

Juggernaut? Cool as hell. Suggests a solid theme, offers tons of interaction with other traits, prompts many X-men quotes. One of my favorite traits in all of GW2.

Symbolic Avenger? Powerful, but kinda meh. Has some interplay, but is mostly just a flat plus appended to your build. Doesn’t really offer interplay or enhance your tools – all it does is constrain you to a single build/weapon, with other traits taken to passively enhance this thing. Yes, the trait is the reason you’re playing Hammerguard, but the Hammerguard playstyle doesn’t change because of SA, nor does SA offer anything new to the Hammerguard beyond raw deeps.

Same for any other simple +x% trait. They don’t change anything, they don’t do anything. You just pick them because the Meta tells you to, and when a big guy in power armor is threatening you with a Brute Shot, you do whatever he wants.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Passive 10% damage traits are boring as snot, both mechanically and balance-wise.

They don’t do anything. They don’t change your playstyle, they don’t give you new tools, they don’t add functionality to your existing tools. I would be overjoyed if every single major +x% damage trait vanished and was replaced with something that actually had impact or flair.

Juggernaut? Cool as hell. Suggests a solid theme, offers tons of interaction with other traits, prompts many X-men quotes. One of my favorite traits in all of GW2.

Symbolic Avenger? Powerful, but kinda meh. Has some interplay, but is mostly just a flat plus appended to your build. Doesn’t really offer interplay or enhance your tools – all it does is constrain you to a single build/weapon, with other traits taken to passively enhance this thing. Yes, the trait is the reason you’re playing Hammerguard, but the Hammerguard playstyle doesn’t change because of SA, nor does SA offer anything new to the Hammerguard beyond raw deeps.

Same for any other simple +x% trait. They don’t change anything, they don’t do anything. You just pick them because the Meta tells you to, and when a big guy in power armor is threatening you with a Brute Shot, you do whatever he wants.

Quoting this because it is well worth reading.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Passive 10% damage traits are boring as snot, both mechanically and balance-wise.

They don’t do anything. They don’t change your playstyle, they don’t give you new tools, they don’t add functionality to your existing tools. I would be overjoyed if every single major +x% damage trait vanished and was replaced with something that actually had impact or flair.

Juggernaut? Cool as hell. Suggests a solid theme, offers tons of interaction with other traits, prompts many X-men quotes. One of my favorite traits in all of GW2.

Symbolic Avenger? Powerful, but kinda meh. Has some interplay, but is mostly just a flat plus appended to your build. Doesn’t really offer interplay or enhance your tools – all it does is constrain you to a single build/weapon, with other traits taken to passively enhance this thing. Yes, the trait is the reason you’re playing Hammerguard, but the Hammerguard playstyle doesn’t change because of SA, nor does SA offer anything new to the Hammerguard beyond raw deeps.

Same for any other simple +x% trait. They don’t change anything, they don’t do anything. You just pick them because the Meta tells you to, and when a big guy in power armor is threatening you with a Brute Shot, you do whatever he wants.

Take a look at the mesmer’s domination trait line sometime. It’s full of boring but practical abilities in PvE.

The first two minor traits are near useless against bosses, and make you feel bad for taking them. The third minor trait is a huge damage boost that doesn’t change your playstyle, but just makes the line even more mandatory.

The first major trait contains +15% illusion damage, which is a huge damage boost… because it’s boosting what’s already your best course of action.

The second is between two interrupt traits, and cleansing inscriptions, which is actually quite fun, if you’re running signets. Bosses can’t be interrupted, and inscriptions are only going to be used if you’re actually running signets. If you’re not using signets, your second major trait is doing very little.

The third major trait is a greatsword trait, an interrupt trait, and a mind wrack boost. A greatsword boost isn’t very useful unless you’re using a greatsword, interrupting bosses isn’t likely to happen often, and even with master of fragmentation and mental anguish, mind wrack is still a DPS loss compared to just letting the phantasms fight.

Eponet.4829:

Take a look at the mesmer’s domination trait line sometime. It’s full of boring but practical abilities in PvE.

The first two minor traits are near useless against bosses, and make you feel bad for taking them. The third minor trait is a huge damage boost that doesn’t change your playstyle, but just makes the line even more mandatory.

The first major trait contains +15% illusion damage, which is a huge damage boost… because it’s boosting what’s already your best course of action.

The second is between two interrupt traits, and cleansing inscriptions, which is actually quite fun, if you’re running signets. Bosses can’t be interrupted, and inscriptions are only going to be used if you’re actually running signets. If you’re not using signets, your second major trait is doing very little.

The third major trait is a greatsword trait, an interrupt trait, and a mind wrack boost. A greatsword boost isn’t very useful unless you’re using a greatsword, interrupting bosses isn’t likely to happen often, and even with master of fragmentation and mental anguish, mind wrack is still a DPS loss compared to just letting the phantasms fight.

I’m not entirely sure what your point is?

You said it yourself – boring but practical. Why should practical be boring? Passive +X% Whatever traits are boring, and offer no real interaction with other traits, skills, or abilities.

Going back to the Juggernaut example – that’s a trait you can hang an entire build on, and I can and have done so. Now sure, the trait could have simply read “+15% damage while using Flamethrower, breaks 1 stun/10s or some such”…but the fact is that Juggernaut generates constant Might and Stability. That gives Flamethrower a lot of extra sturdiness since it can’t be easily controlled, and it’s also two boons. Those boons lets the trait interact with things like Iron-Blooded, and while I ended up going for +Burn runes on Lilyana there to get better coverage for the Flamethrower’s AA damage boost, it also means Lilyana gains a lot of gear interactions through potential Strength sigils/runes.

It’s why the Chronomancer trait line for Mes is awesome – the traits give concrete, observable effects, they make things happen. Your phantasms explode and then instantly respawn. Your clones explode and then you generate one for free. Shatter and gain a pile of Quickness. Get enough crits and your target slows down. You can see it happening. It’s more interesting, more engaging, more fun than nothing but a bank of passive traits, and frankly it improves the passive traits you do have if they tie into some cool trick you’re working on supporting – i.e. Danger Time’s passive crit bonus seguing very nicely into Lost Time and suggesting an entire build – the Imagined Burden/Danger Time/Lost Time mass Greatsword Slow engine.

Maybe flat +% damage traits are better for boss speedclears, but even then – wouldn’t you prefer your practical traits to be awesome instead of boring? Something like an extra bonus attack from your Phantasms every [X] seconds instead of just 15% damage? Other stuff that you can watch trigger and know your build is doing its thing, or which combos into other traits for cool trick builds, or…anything other than +5% in every trait slot in every spec line?