Guild Wars 2

After watching POI and looking at the GW2 Wiki, it seems that the grandmaster traits for the elite should be in the F(#) slots.

I think the thief is getting cheated for not having this. I wouldn’t mind if they changed the steal mechanics back to what they used to be with the thief, for the daredevil, but to deny the thief with a lack of change to the prof. mech., I think is a bad idea.

I would call these mechanics “Stunts” They can still operate off of the endurance meter, still get an 50 point increase of endurance and have traits that improve the “stunts” so that player would have to pick which one of the three they could use more effectively.

I would have it-
Thief: F1(Steal) F2 (Stash Item)
Daredevil: F1 (Steal/Stash) F2 (Dash) F3 (Impaling Lotus) F4 (Bound)

I would change to skills to look like:

Dash-
Gain swiftness, then rush forward and evade attacks.
Swiftness (8s): 33% Movement Speed
Evade: ¾s
Distance Traveled: 130

Impaling Lotus-
Hurl damaging daggers at multiple targets
Damage: 50
Number of Targets: 3
Radius: 600
Distance Traveled: 300
Combo Finisher: Whirl

Bound-
Leap at a target and deliver a massive blow to enemy.
Damage: 465
Number of Targets: 1
Radius: 180
Distance Traveled: 150
Evade: ¾s
Combo Finisher: Leap

I would have the grandmaster traits:
Bounding Dodger-
Your Bound ability deals damage to the area after you evade. Double the distance traveled and increase the number of targets to 5.

Lotus Training-
When using Impaling Lotus, evade attacks and dealing multiple conditions to enemies.

Unhindered Combatant-
Increase range on your dash ability and removes inhibiting conditions.

This way if you want simply dodge like you usually do, you can. If you want to use a “stunt” instead, you can too. It doesn’t change much from what the current proposal is for the Daredevil, except you won’t be able to steal like a normal thief, but you will be able to use all stunts once you specialize in the elite, without the perks unless you have the grandmaster trait for them.

I like this idea.

I wouldn’t mind it if it was done this way.

I really don’t get this thing about people complaining about the profession mechanic not changing enough.

Changing the new dodges into F skills is more a matter of semantics. It’s the same new mechanic, putting it on the F skill bar doesn’t make it MORE of a class mechanic.

You suggestion would give more options, which is nice, but the point of the specialization traits is to lock you into your chosen dodge, so the decision to do that instead of letting you use all three with the trait to power one of them up like you suggested may make some balancing differences. Both potentially sound pretty balanced in my opinion though.

There’s more to class mechanics than just the F buttons. I don’t think thief is getting “cheated” just because the f-skills aren’t changing. Changing the mechanics of dodges and the endurance cap increase are pretty huge. Personally I’m looking forward to trying this out on my thief. It’s not quite as flashy as something like the chonomancer, but this will seriously change-up my play-style nonetheless. So far it’s actually one of the specs I’m most looking forward to playing.

Also, for what it’s worth, I think Engie and Ranger are going to have similar “problems” with their profession mechanic NOT being a change to how f-skills function. Engineer’s toolbelt already takes up all the f-slots, and I have a feeling Anet isn’t going to be too eager to replace the whole toolbelt mechanic considering the recent changes to it. It’d be weird to give vanilla engie a shiny new f5 and then lock the new spec out of using toolbelt skills.

Changing the ranger’s f-skills could require reworking nearly every pet, so I don’t think their new mechanic will be f-skill based either.

So thief might not be the only one getting this treatment.

I think they set it up just fine. This should also kinda be in thief forum.

Arioso.8519:

I wouldn’t mind it if it was done this way.

I really don’t get this thing about people complaining about the profession mechanic not changing enough.

Changing the new dodges into F skills is more a matter of semantics. It’s the same new mechanic, putting it on the F skill bar doesn’t make it MORE of a class mechanic.

You suggestion would give more options, which is nice, but the point of the specialization traits is to lock you into your chosen dodge, so the decision to do that instead of letting you use all three with the trait to power one of them up like you suggested may make some balancing differences. Both potentially sound pretty balanced in my opinion though.

There’s more to class mechanics than just the F buttons. I don’t think thief is getting “cheated” just because the f-skills aren’t changing. Changing the mechanics of dodges and the endurance cap increase are pretty huge. Personally I’m looking forward to trying this out on my thief. It’s not quite as flashy as something like the chonomancer, but this will seriously change-up my play-style nonetheless. So far it’s actually one of the specs I’m most looking forward to playing.

Also, for what it’s worth, I think Engie and Ranger are going to have similar “problems” with their profession mechanic NOT being a change to how f-skills function. Engineer’s toolbelt already takes up all the f-slots, and I have a feeling Anet isn’t going to be too eager to replace the whole toolbelt mechanic considering the recent changes to it. It’d be weird to give vanilla engie a shiny new f5 and then lock the new spec out of using toolbelt skills.

Changing the ranger’s f-skills could require reworking nearly every pet, so I don’t think their new mechanic will be f-skill based either.

So thief might not be the only one getting this treatment.

It’s more than just Semantics, it’s also about appearance. Right now they forcing you to use your dodge as a new ability once you grandmaster it the spec. compaired to being able to use all three abilities and keeping your regular dodge. I don’t see why one couldn’t or shouldn’t have access to all three abilities. Clearly I exhibited how the abilities don’t have to be as powerful if their not spec’ed into. I know it’s just my opinion, but why not give them the ability to dodge, dash, bound, and have impaling lotus. I even stated that Daredevils could change their steal back to how it was before the updated version.

They might change future elites to not have alternative F abilities… I say thee nay! (In my Thor voice)

What ever idea they have not making changes to the F abilities are the same as they would have with making changes to the F ability!

Forcing you to choose one special dodge over the others (or the default dodge) is part of the tradeoff for the elite spec. And really the only tradeoff Dardevil seems to get. Giving all 3 special dodges + the normal dodge would make it a total upgrade as opposed to a tradeoff, which isn’t what elite specs are meant to be.

Electro.4173:

Forcing you to choose one special dodge over the others (or the default dodge) is part of the tradeoff for the elite spec. And really the only tradeoff Dardevil seems to get. Giving all 3 special dodges + the normal dodge would make it a total upgrade as opposed to a tradeoff, which isn’t what elite specs are meant to be.

It’s the same trade off that Warrior has with being a Berserker and Mesmer has with being a Chronomancer.

Sylent.3165:

I think they set it up just fine. This should also kinda be in thief forum.

Why should it not be here when we’re talking about the HoT?

In fact, the Devs stated that they were looking into Daredevils having all three dodges from the grandmaster traits. Why stop?!

VocalThought.9835:

Electro.4173:

Forcing you to choose one special dodge over the others (or the default dodge) is part of the tradeoff for the elite spec. And really the only tradeoff Dardevil seems to get. Giving all 3 special dodges + the normal dodge would make it a total upgrade as opposed to a tradeoff, which isn’t what elite specs are meant to be.

It’s the same trade off that Warrior has with being a Berserker and Mesmer has with being a Chronomancer.

Yeah, basically, they decided that Elite specs would be sidegrades that would change class abilities, designed the Reaper and Dragonhunter, then completely changed their mind and made the rest of the specs. The reason people keep bringing that up is because that’s explicitly what the devs said elite specs would do when they first announced the spec changes. Many of us are just still salty that they decided not to follow that philosophy, and instead just make them upgrades to class mechanics.

After having seen the POI, my personal opinion what should change are these points:

1) Elite Specilization Rename to Skirmisher = 1 fitting Name for all languages
2) Remove Steal and exchange it with “Styles” which are unique Stances to exchange out the way how you perform Dodges and Evades, enabling to to perform also with them Counterattacks
3) Merge some of the current planned new Traits with traits of Acrobatics, so that Acrobatics won’t be just a in itself useless complementary Traitline anymore, but actually one, that is worth it to be taken over the other lines or even over Skirmisher to stay a Thief, because this is for Game Balance very essential, that the Elite Specializations don’t become powercreeped new Metas, but instead balanced out Build Alternatives which don’t put the Vanilla Main Profession Gameplay Styles totally under their shadows to stay competitive.
4) Put more focus in the Skirmisher Traitline on Styles and Evasion/Counterattack Effects, so that actually taking this Traitline feels to you also like beign a Great Gameplay Changer – Steal is the metier of a Thief and not that of an Martial Artist…
5) Rebalance the Gameplay of the Elite Specialization to have a bit more access also to defensive Boons, like especially Stability and Resistance, whioch should be something a Thief should gain from Acrobatics, so that also someone who plays the Elite Specialization should have a very good reason to take Acrobatics.
6) The increase of Maximum Stamina should become basedlined for using Acrobatics, its how Feline Grace should work …
Instead of getting increased Maximum Stamina, the Elite Specialization Traitline should provide as Side Effect instead while using a Staff an inherent Chance to Auto Block incoming melee attacks for an automatic Counterattack-Palm Strike/Pulmonary Impact so that actually enemies want to stay away from as of fightign us in melee range..

After looking the todays stream about challengign grpoup content, i’ll continue here

So heres my own final Reiteration of how I believe the Thief Elite-Specialization should work in regard of an following Class Balance Change that we definetely will see some time after the release of Heart of Thorns
Starting with:

Acrobatics

Minor Adept = Expeditious Dodger > Gain Swiftness and Health on Evade and Dodge Rolls. The Effect will be 50% stronger when done through a successful Dodge Roll
——
Major Adept = Pain Response > Lose a Condition on Evasion ICD10s. The Effect will be stronger through an added Regeneration, when done with a successful Dodge Roll.
Major Adept = Vigorous Recovery > Gain Vigor when using a Healing Skill. The next used Initiative Skill will reduce all recharging Skills by the Initiative Cost in Seconds
Major Adept = Fleet Shadow > Increases Initiative Regen by 25% while being stealthed and lets you gain Super Speed and Stability when leaving or getting forced out of stealth for 5s
——
Minor Master = Endless Stamina > Increases efficiency of Vigor by 50% and raises Maximum Endurance by +50
——
Major Master = Guarded Initiation = Gives you Resistance if you initiate a Combat with the first hit for 1 second per Initiative Point. Gain Protection for 4 seconds, if your Initiative reaches 0
Major Master = Hard To Catch = Auto Break Hard CC’s and refill your Endurance. Gain after being Hard CC’ed a 5 second immunity against Hard CC’s and movement stopping or slowing Conditions to prevent you from getting permanently Hard CC’ed.
Major Master = Swindler’s Equilibrium = Confuse an Enemy on Dodge and steal a Boon
——
Minor Grandmaster = Feline Grace > Gain Vigor on successfully evading an Attack. Increases Vitality based in 10% of your Precision.
——
Major Grandmaster = Assassin’s Reward > Gain Auto Health Regeneration based on your Initiative that you have. Whenever you Kill something, you will summon for 20 seconds an Shadow Assassin to your side that will attack nearby foes for you using exactly your Skill Build.
Major Grandmaster = Don’t Stop > After performing a Dodge Roll, you will regain immediately 25% of your lost Endurance back ICD 10s. Trying to apply Cripple or Chill to you will actually turn into the countereffect Boons. So crippling you turns into giving you Swiftness, and trying to chill you gives you Alacrity instead. ICD 10s
Major Grandmaster = Upper Hand > Regain Initiative on Evasion. Increases the Efficiency of your Hard CC’s by 20%

Now the next:

Shadow Arts

Minor Adept = Meld With Shadows* > Your Stealth lasts 50% longer.
Reduces Falling Damage by 50% using a Blinding Powder enterign this way also Stealth.
——
Master Adept = Last Refuge > Create a Smoke Screen when being at Low Health and Deceptions recharge 20% faster.
Master Adept = Shadow’s Embrace > Lose Conditions while being in Stealth periodically
Master Adept = Fearful Deceptions > Enemies in your near receive Fear, when you use Deception Skills
——
Minor Master = Merciless Ambush > Stealth Attacks deal 10% more damage and you gain Fury on Stealth. Increases the Intensity of Fury to 30% increased Critical Hit Rate
——
Major Master = Hidden Thief > Gain Stealth after having used a Stolen Skill and it deals no Damage anymore.
Major Master = Shadow Protector > When you grant Stealth to Allies, you grant them Protection.
Major Master = Nightshade > Gain Quickness on Stealth for 3s and regain Initiative, when you blind foes.
——
Minor Grandmaster = Resilience of Shadows > Reduces damage of all sources when being in Stealth and reduces Condition Durations by 15%
——
Major Grandmaster = Cloaked in Shadows > You stealth now also 5 nearby Allies, when you stealth yourself with Skills and Effects that would normally Stealth only you. Your Allies will gain Regeneration as long your Stealth is up, resulting in you reviving also faster allies and up to 5 nearby Allies will profitate now from your Resilience of Shadows Trait also.
Major Grandmaster = Shadow Rejuvenation > Gain Health and Initiative, while being stealthed. Removing Conditions recharges 2s of your Steal Recharge Time per removed Condition.
Major Grandmaster = Shadow Flare > Attack on Reveal nearby foes with a Surprise Attack, which blinds and burns foes for 4 seconds with increased Burning Stacks based on how much Initiative you had at that moment. 13-11 = 4 Stacks, 10-8 = 3 Stacks, 7-5= 2 Stacks, 4-1 = 1 Stack. Increases Condition Damage on Reveal by +200 for the Duration of Reveal.

Next

Deadly Arts

Minor Adept = Serpent’s Touch > Steal poisons foes. Venoms recharge 20% faster.
——
Major Adept = Dagger Training > Daggers Attacks can apply Poison additionally. Gain Might on Activation of Venoms and Venoms leech Health per Charge.
Major Adept = Mug > Gain Health on Steal and deal Damage.
Major Adept = Weakening Strikes > Deal Weakness on Critical Strikes
——
Minor Master = Lotus Poison > Torment foes, if you Poison them.
——
Major Master = Deadly Trapper > Increases the Size and Efficiency (Duration) of Traps by 50% and drop a Needle Trap on usage of your Healing Skill.
Major Master = Panic Strike > Striking a foe over the threshold causes Fear, striking under the threshould causes Immobilize. Both Effects have their own ICD’s
Major Master = Revealed Training > Gain +200 Power while being revealed. Gain periodically Aegis and Retaliation, while not being in Stealth.
——
Minor Grandmaster = Exposed Weakness > Deal 10% increased Damage agaisnt foes that suffer on Conditions. Increases the duration of your Conditions, if foes are weakened also by 10%.
——
Major Grandmaster = Potent Poison > Increases the Efficiency of your Poisons and Venoms, lettiing Poison deal more damage, reduce Healings of foes by 50% and Venoms have increased Charges.
Major Grandmaster = Trapper’s Respite > Traps recharge faster, deal Vulnerability and you gain Might on Trap usage.
Major Grandmaster= Executioner > Deal 20% more Damage to foes under 50% health. Gain Might when you attack something that has more health than you.

Now

Trickery

Minor Adept = Kleptomaniac > Reduces Steal Cooldown by 10% and lets you regain Initiative on Steal. Counterattacks let you steal and instant use Stolen Skills on your foe or yourself.
——
Major Adept = Flanking Strikes > Gain Haste when attacking from the sides or behind
Major Adept = Thrill of Crime > Gain Might, Swiftness and Fury for your and nearby allies, if you either Steal, or counterattack.
Major Adept = Uncatchable > Leave behind Caltrops on Dodge
——
Minor Master = Preparedness > Increases Max Initiative by 3. Boons last 15% longer
——
Major Master = Bountiful Theft > Steal rips 2 boons and grants Vigor to you and allies
Major Master = Pressure Striking > Interrupts/Counterattacks inflict Torment. Physicals deal 10% more Damage.
Major Master = Trickster > Tricks have 20% reduced Recharge Time and remove Conditions.
——
Minor Grandmaster = Increases Damage per Initiative. Steal Recharges Faster.
Palm Hand Strike deals now Vulnerability.
——
Major Grandmaster = Bewildering Ambush > Steal lets you confuse foes now.
Major Grandmaster = Improvisation > You can use Stolen Skills now twice and using Stolen Skills gives you Alacrity
Major Grandmaster = Sleight of Hand > Steal/Counterattacks daze now. Reduces Steal Recharge and gain Initiative on Weapon Swap from Staff to something else.

Next is

Critical Strikes

Minor Adept = Keen Observer > Increases Critical Hit Rate by 10%
——
Major Adept = Fluid Strikes > Increases Damage, while not having full Endurance by 10%
Major Adept = Side Strike > Gain a chance of receiving Fury, when hitting foes from behind or the sides.
Major Adept = Signets of Power > Gain Might on Signet Activation, Reduces Signet recharge by 20%
——
Minor Master = Ricochet > Increases the Range of Shortbow and Pistol to 1200, letting Pistolshots bounce once and Trick Shots bounce once more.
——
Major Master = Ankle Shots > Shortbows, Pistols and Harpoon Guns cripple with critical hits, while dealing increased damage to crippled foes.
Major Master = Practiced Tolerance > Gain Ferocity based on your Precision and reduces Condition Durations you suffer on by 15%
Major Master = Precise Strikes > Criticals deal Vulnerability and give you a chance to gain Fury every 10s, if the foe was under 50% health
——
Minor Grandmaster = Ferocious Strikes > Gain ferocity against targets above 50% Health
——
Major Grandmaster = Invigorating Precision > Critical Hits heal you for a percentage of your dealt Damage.
Major Grandmaster = Critical Eye > Renews the Duration of Fury, if you deal Critical Hits while beign under Fury. Increases Ferocity
Major Grandmaster = Critical Agility > Decreases Initiative Costs while being under Fury. Gain a chance to receive Quickness after a Critical Hit with ICD of 20s

Daredevil never was going to get these special dodges as F* class mechanic. They stated they wanted the Daredevil to get all 3 of them, but on a different way.

You are getting 3 dodge bars. If all are full, you will dodge using the daggers. If there are only 2 bars left, you will use the dash and if there is only 1 bar left you will use the leap. But they came to the conclusion that this is too complicated and so they came up with the idea to make these dodges to grandmaster traits.

You were never going to get a stance to pick one dodge move when you need it, your endurance will have told you which one you are using the next time you dodge. I think it is way better now.

And Finally

Skirmisher

Minor Adept = Skirmish Training > Enables You to wield a Staff and access to Physical Skills. Exchanges Steal out for Styles
——
Major Adept = Driven Fortitude > Increases Toughness and Healing Power, so lower your Health gets.
Major Adept = Dodge Master > A dodge roll will cost you once every 10 seconds no Endurance
Major Adept = Staff Master > Gain Bonus Toughness, while your Endurance is not full. Gain Endurance based on your Initiative Points spent, while wielding a Staff.
——
Minor Master = Defensive Counter > Gain Stability and Protection after a Counterattack Block
——
Major Master = Brawlers Tenacity > Gain Endurance when you first activate an Physical Skill. physicals have 20% reduced Recharge Times
Major Master = Skirmisher’s Farsight > Gain Aegis and Retaliation on usage of a Heal Skill.
Major Master = Evasive Empowerment > Increases 10% Damage of Attacks after a successsful Dodge.
——
Minor Grandmaster = Reacting Defense > Gain Aegis after an blocked Attack and cause small AoE damage, when your Aegis breaks due to Enemy Attacks .
——
Major Grandmaster = Reckless Stunts > Gain Self Vulnerability, therefore are your Stunts more Effective and deal increased Damage.
Major Grandmaster = Wild Stunts > Your Stunts grant you Swiftness, Fury and Might
Major Grandmaster = Awesome Stunts >Uusing Stunts makes you feel great, you will lose Conditions and receive Heals when using them.
————

Styles

F1: Style of the Lotus Blossom
Activate this Style and you will throw Impaling Lotus Daggers hurling multiple damaging Daggers at foes lettign them suffer on Bleeding, Cripple and Torment when you dodge.

F2: Style of the Nightshade
Activate this Style and you will dash fast forward like a shadow, gaining swiftness, removing Cripple, Chill and Immobilize, evading Attacks for a much longer distance, than a normal Dodge Roll, while also blinding enemies, through which you dash through as a Nightshade.

F3: Style of the Frog
Activate this Style, to use the Frog Stance for Combat, replacing your Dodge Roll with Bound to let your dodge Rolls become leaping AoE Attacks that count as Leap Finishers. These Dodge Bounds have a chance to cause Knockdowns as they are shorter ranged, but more powerful than the normal Bounds.

You can have always only 1 Style at a moment active, means when you activate for example F1, then will get all Styles at the same time into Cooldown State and begin to recharge. After Activation you have a given time window of XX seconds, where you can use your changed Style to perform the chosen Dodge Roll type.
Each Style in itself works also like a little Passive Skill, while its not activated and you use classic Dodge Rolls (nothing big).

Style of the Lotus Blossom = While not active, it increases your Condition Damage a bit.
Style of the Nightshade = While not active, it increases your Vitality a bit.
Style of the Frog = While not active, it increases your Precision a bit.