Guild Wars 2

I just read the thread on the amount of hero points required to fully unlock the elite spec line and my first thought was this:

The unique dodges are what made the daredevil feel like a cool elite spec when I played it during the BWE. I assume that is how it is supposed to feel. However that means thief players will have to gather many more hero points in the HoT maps before accessing what makes daredevil feel like daredevil. Meanwhile all the other classes get this satisfaction right when they have enough hero points for the minor trait.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the extra dodge is great but it would feel better to have the unique dodges right when all other classes get their unique mechanic and the extra endurance later down the trait line.

Thoughts?

Thief feels like an afterthought. Anet obviously doesn’t care about class balance otherwise certain top teams wouldn’t be able to have four elementalists. For testing balance Anet could make bots with very sophisticated AI (so good that it should only be in top tier PvE content that only 2% of players would be able to complete and too dynamic for a strategy guide to be useful…or maybe AI isn’t quite there yet technologically?) play against each other, like team A vs team B playing 100 matches, tracking data, and balancing things that way and using the data in metrics. Balancing would both revolve around 5v5 and 1v1. If a class vastly underperforms 1v1 things could change. If they win too much after the rebalance then they could change it slightly.

If not bots then paying top players to do internal testing would help, but a problem there would be a noob on thief could be a pro on elementalist so it wouldn’t be a perfect solution. The idea would be trying countless permutations of 5v5 and 1v1.

Agemnon.4608:

Thief feels like an afterthought. Anet obviously doesn’t care about class balance otherwise certain top teams wouldn’t be able to have four elementalists. For testing balance Anet could make bots with very sophisticated AI (so good that it should only be in top tier PvE content that only 2% of players would be able to complete and too dynamic for a strategy guide to be useful…or maybe AI isn’t quite there yet technologically?) play against each other, like team A vs team B playing 100 matches, tracking data, and balancing things that way and using the data in metrics. Balancing would both revolve around 5v5 and 1v1. If a class vastly underperforms 1v1 things could change. If they win too much after the rebalance then they could change it slightly.

If not bots then paying top players to do internal testing would help, but a problem there would be a noob on thief could be a pro on elementalist so it wouldn’t be a perfect solution. The idea would be trying countless permutations of 5v5 and 1v1.

Well this is pretty off topic but either way I have to disagree. Yes the heavy condi burst had made D/P thief much harder to play but I’ve been having amazing luck playing P/P thief and having access to dash will make it work even better. Also lotus training will bring back super unicorn thief play. The meta is shifting for thief which I welcome, since D/P had been the only build worth paying for far too long. I can also see a soldier/pack staff daredevil bring pretty competitive in team fights.

I guess it turns out that our only new mechanic is the extra dodge…

NiisanSora.6289:

I guess it turns out that our only new mechanic is the extra dodge…

Yes… I’ve written about this before and it makes me very sad.

Agemnon.4608:

Thief feels like an afterthought.

That has been my feeling regarding the daredevil since its unveiling.

I mean, its “unique class mechanic” is an extra dodge, and instead of GM traits, you get to change what kind of dodge you have (when really that should be on a toggle key just like revenant legend switch)

Not to mention the Acrobatics trait line was mysteriously gutted and horribly nerfed with the trait change patch … and now it’s clear that was done to make room for the Daredevil trait line which also focuses on dodging ….

The DD has felt half-baked since the beginning.

Ausfer.1853:

That has been my feeling regarding the daredevil since its unveiling.

I mean, its “unique class mechanic” is an extra dodge, and instead of GM traits, you get to change what kind of dodge you have (when really that should be on a toggle key just like revenant legend switch)

Not to mention the Acrobatics trait line was mysteriously gutted and horribly nerfed with the trait change patch … and now it’s clear that was done to make room for the Daredevil trait line which also focuses on dodging ….

The DD has felt half-baked since the beginning.

This. And feline grace was BETTER than one additional dodge, it meant you could dodge more often, not get one extra dodge at the beginning of the fight.

The wiki says that endurance regens naturally at 5%/sec but it takes DD 30 sec to fully recharge the endurance bar. So DD seems to have nerffed endurance regen on top of all of this(3.33%/sec) I would be happy with feline grace OR endurance refilling at the full 5%/sec rate.

I’m probably gonna play DD on release just because of melee staff but I really feel like we got shafted here.

This. And feline grace was BETTER than one additional dodge, it meant you could dodge more often, not get one extra dodge at the beginning of the fight.

Exactly. The Daredevil’s core mechanic is that we get back PART of what we already HAD six months ago.

Hooray.

Daredevil is cool. Just this grindy unlock system is not

As an engie player, I would take the 3rd dodge instead of the F-Gyro every single time. Care to trade?

Ardid.7203:

As an engie player, I would take the 3rd dodge instead of the F-Gyro every single time. Care to trade?

Darn this person does have a point..

60 points to unlock the elite. I think we get 60 for logging in. 400 to unlock the whole enchilada. All of us have anywhere from 100-214, and each hero point in HoT gives 10. So 20 if you’ve played a bit, and we can get them in wvw now too.

Sounds like a cake walk.

As an engie player, I would take the 3rd dodge instead of the F-Gyro every single time. Care to trade?

Because losing DPS and having an overlay over our burst F1 is any better?

60 points to unlock the elite. I think we get 60 for logging in. 400 to unlock the whole enchilada. All of us have anywhere from 100-214, and each hero point in HoT gives 10. So 20 if you’ve played a bit, and we can get them in wvw now too.

But one of the important distinctions to keep in mind is that with the Thief just “unlocking the spec” is worthless. All it gives you is one extra dodge per fight, and less than certain Engi builds offer. It’s not until you fully unlock the spec that it actually becomes potentially worth using, when you have the GM traits and utilities. That’s why Thief players are more upset about this new change than most.

As an engie player, I would take the 3rd dodge instead of the F-Gyro every single time. Care to trade?

I’d be 100% up for that if we could swap the Elite skills too, Stealth Gyro for Impact Strike.

Ohoni.6057:

60 points to unlock the elite. I think we get 60 for logging in. 400 to unlock the whole enchilada. All of us have anywhere from 100-214, and each hero point in HoT gives 10. So 20 if you’ve played a bit, and we can get them in wvw now too.

But one of the important distinctions to keep in mind is that with the Thief just “unlocking the spec” is worthless. All it gives you is one extra dodge per fight, and less than certain Engi builds offer. It’s not until you fully unlock the spec that it actually becomes potentially worth using, when you have the GM traits and utilities. That’s why Thief players are more upset about this new change than most.

As an engie player, I would take the 3rd dodge instead of the F-Gyro every single time. Care to trade?

I’d be 100% up for that if we could swap the Elite skills too, Stealth Gyro for Impact Strike.

Impact Strike sounds awesome with a Hammer

Impact Strike sounds awesome with a Hammer

I know, right?! Fair trade.

Yep, I’ll trade.

Nex Vestrum.1025:

I just read the thread on the amount of hero points required to fully unlock the elite spec line and my first thought was this:

The unique dodges are what made the daredevil feel like a cool elite spec when I played it during the BWE. I assume that is how it is supposed to feel. However that means thief players will have to gather many more hero points in the HoT maps before accessing what makes daredevil feel like daredevil. Meanwhile all the other classes get this satisfaction right when they have enough hero points for the minor trait.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the extra dodge is great but it would feel better to have the unique dodges right when all other classes get their unique mechanic and the extra endurance later down the trait line.

Thoughts?

(kitten Mode): clears throat.. … …. WRONG. Thank you. I’ll take my Emmy now.

(/kittenmode): While yes, the Dodges are nice, and a huge boon to Daredevil, I do not think that is the only thing that made the Spec. Also the addition of an Extra 50 Endurance… The other Professions would literally kill your DD for that.

Think of it as a reward for sticking with it and mastering the Spec. Honey is better when you earn it…..

….Or when your really kittening hungry…. and I mean like… it’s been two weeks since you have eaten and you really hate honey… even then, it taste like godliness.

(/kittenmode): While yes, the Dodges are nice, and a huge boon to Daredevil, I do not think that is the only thing that made the Spec. Also the addition of an Extra 50 Endurance… The other Professions would literally kill your DD for that.

Remember, it’s only 50 more at the start of the fight, once you spend it, you don’t get it back. It is not as good as what Feline grace used to offer the class, which was bonus endurance throughout the fight, and over a long fight it actually offers the Thief LESS endurance than many other classes with easier access to Endurance recovery.

In other words, it seems much more impressive than it actually is in practice.