Guild Wars 2

I was expecting a difficulty increase on the HOT maps, but so far the spike is so steep that I can barely do anything. I haven’t done much outside of Verdant Brink, but so far I haven’t been able to do any of the hero points, get to most of the vistas or POIs, or even get all of the waypoints active.

Some of this is expected, as I am still working on navigational masteries such as gliding and mushrooms (going slowly because I am not spending much time there due to playing through LW2), but the main obstacle is simply the combination of the toughness and number of monsters and the confined combat areas. I have wiped many many times by being ganged on by 5+ mobs with not room to maneuver on the many bridges and narrow paths, no way to keep from aggroing them (ie Either they are so close they all aggro at once, they chain aggro, or the area is so small that in moving to fight the first one I can’t help but aggro others) and no way to break aggro other than jumping off a cliff and hoping I have somewhere to glide to. I can only dodge so much before I am out of endurance. Combine this with many annoying mechanics, such as lots of high powered invisible monsters (Shadowleapers), monsters with throw+stun that can chain if there are multiples (like the beetles), Monsters with undodgeable abilities (shadow chargers), and a general inability to do any level of Pass Parade and it makes getting around Verdant Brink very hard by yourself.

Is there any advise people can give for dealing with the new maps?

You will get a lot of intense perspectives on this from various posters. Some will offer constructive ideas. Others not so much. So, my nickel’s worth (about all it’s worth, too).

I understand the frustration. I felt it too and it kept me out of the zone for a bit. As some will tell you, it does get better with some time and practice. Getting the masteries will help as well. Learning the different types of mobs, their attacks, and their weaknesses also adds to the mix. Bottom line, though, it doesn’t come quickly or at least it didn’t for me. I still die a lot, although I’m a lot more comfortable now than before.

In addition to the above, I did the Story as the pieces became available and that helped a lot. Decent rewards and it helps to work you deeper into the maps. In the beginning, I nibbled around the edges a bit. I stayed pretty close to the entry waypoint. I did some of the events around there. I think that the most important lesson I learned early on is that some groups of mobs you can run through; others you can’t. Pocket raptors, for example. If you try to run through a large group, you will die (or at least I do). They die easily especially if you have decent AOE. I find ranged attack suits me best in the zone most of the time.

Finally, I used the Wiki and Dulfy to learn what was going on in the maps and how to best take advantage of it. It’s always easier, at least for me, when I can get into an event or chain with a bunch of others. Inherent in these thoughts, though, is the underlying truth for me that this is not an expansion that lends itself well to rushing through.

These are the things that helped me get into it. HoT is by no means my cup of noodles. It does have its moments, though. Hope this helps.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

I was expecting a difficulty increase on the HOT maps, but so far the spike is so steep that I can barely do anything. I haven’t done much outside of Verdant Brink, but so far I haven’t been able to do any of the hero points, get to most of the vistas or POIs, or even get all of the waypoints active.

Some of this is expected, as I am still working on navigational masteries such as gliding and mushrooms (going slowly because I am not spending much time there due to playing through LW2), but the main obstacle is simply the combination of the toughness and number of monsters and the confined combat areas. I have wiped many many times by being ganged on by 5+ mobs with not room to maneuver on the many bridges and narrow paths, no way to keep from aggroing them (ie Either they are so close they all aggro at once, they chain aggro, or the area is so small that in moving to fight the first one I can’t help but aggro others) and no way to break aggro other than jumping off a cliff and hoping I have somewhere to glide to. I can only dodge so much before I am out of endurance. Combine this with many annoying mechanics, such as lots of high powered invisible monsters (Shadowleapers), monsters with throw+stun that can chain if there are multiples (like the beetles), Monsters with undodgeable abilities (shadow chargers), and a general inability to do any level of Pass Parade and it makes getting around Verdant Brink very hard by yourself.

Is there any advise people can give for dealing with the new maps?

You aren’t alone! My first experience with HoT was no different. I had trouble getting anywhere without dying. But unlocking masteries helped and unlocking my elite spec REALLY helped! Beyond that, it was just a matter of familiarizing myself with the enemies and learning to counter them.

If you want you can add me to your contacts list and hit me up in game. I love the jungle and don’t mind helping people get the hang of it.

Yeah. Welcome to HoT. A whole expansion that is targeted solely at the higher skilled players. And Anet wonder why it is not as successful as they hoped….

If you’re on a US server, hit me up in game. I can show you the ropes. I’ve shown many people around hot and most people seem to like it after. Always happy to help.

DoctorDing.5890:

Yeah. Welcome to HoT. A whole expansion that is targeted solely at the higher skilled players. And Anet wonder why it is not as successful as they hoped….

Yeah….No, the only real content that is targeted at higher skilled players are raids, which does not account for the whole expansion in itself. And we are not forced into it

flog.3485:

DoctorDing.5890:

Yeah. Welcome to HoT. A whole expansion that is targeted solely at the higher skilled players. And Anet wonder why it is not as successful as they hoped….

Yeah….No, the only real content that is targeted at higher skilled players are raids, which does not account for the whole expansion in itself. And we are not forced into it

The hot expansion is aimed at players who wanted a bigger challenge. Arenannet said that themselves, quote: “The Heart of Maguuma will be home to some of the most challenging combat in Guild Wars 2”.

I cannot speak for others but that is why I have not bought it and, judging from this forum and others, I am not alone. They are selling something I do not want. Maybe the next expansion will cater for me.

flog.3485:

DoctorDing.5890:

Yeah. Welcome to HoT. A whole expansion that is targeted solely at the higher skilled players. And Anet wonder why it is not as successful as they hoped….

Yeah….No, the only real content that is targeted at higher skilled players are raids, which does not account for the whole expansion in itself. And we are not forced into it

Maybe you need to read the OP’s post again. That is someone who expected HoT to be harder but is still surprised at the difficulty level. They are not talking about raids. HoT is frustrating rather than fun. It is not a success.

1) Don’t go glass, try to have at least one tanky stat. While you can definitely play these maps on Berserker, it is something that takes alot of practice, and you should not be running around on glassy gear if you aren’t prepared for a steep learning curve because that is the whole point of using glassy gear, isn’kitten

2) Many mobs evade or avoid damage, conditions do a higher DPS in these scenarios. Relying on physical damage alone will make you vulnerable during these times and may even count you out of potential rallies when you’re downed.

3) You need to use CC. You MUST use CC here. In fact, I would say that out of everything else, carrying a decent amount of both soft and hard CC with you will determine the outcome of the battles. For example my scepter/warhorn necro cripples, blinds, chills and dazes everything so she can fight ten Chak at once, while my GS warrior has a very difficult time when she gets swarmed by mob patrols.

4) Try not to play alone. Just having one other player with you at all times is enough to complete 90% of the content including all but a few of the hardest HPs and many of the events that are meant for a minimum of five players.

Go to dulfy.net and youtube.
Watch it being done by various people on various toons so you know it’s not a con.
I’ve taken one of each profession, all berserker through VB and I’m cycling them through the other maps so two are now done with DS, several are done with AB and a few are done with TD. It isn’t any harder than you make it for yourself, there are videos for non-gliders and even run throughs that don’t use nuhoch wallows.
Those things really do help but seriously.. watch it being done, helps remove the frustration.

DoctorDing.5890:

flog.3485:

DoctorDing.5890:

Yeah. Welcome to HoT. A whole expansion that is targeted solely at the higher skilled players. And Anet wonder why it is not as successful as they hoped….

Yeah….No, the only real content that is targeted at higher skilled players are raids, which does not account for the whole expansion in itself. And we are not forced into it

Maybe you need to read the OP’s post again. That is someone who expected HoT to be harder but is still surprised at the difficulty level. They are not talking about raids. HoT is frustrating rather than fun. It is not a success.

I perfectly understand what the OP wrote, I was merely disagreeing with you, hence why I quoted you. @OP To give you some advice, don’t try to aggro mobs like you could before and expect to face roll it in your berserk gear. Frogs always throw you a bunch of arrows at the beginning of the encounter so expect to dodge or equip some reflect or use blocks. Mini raptors attack fast but are always very sensitive to field effects. All mobs are pretty squishy in fact, except for beetles, but they are clearly not threatening. As a side note it is pretty hard to give some advice when we don’t know what class you main.

DoctorDing.5890:

Yeah. Welcome to HoT. A whole expansion that is targeted solely at the higher skilled players. And Anet wonder why it is not as successful as they hoped….

ArenaNet has always targeted the above average. GW1 could be nearly impossible for example if you just slapped together random builds and henchmen. GW2’s original beta was more like HoT when it came to enemies, except they didn’t have lower health, they just dealt far more damage and any special attack would likely kill you. It was common to see the stand-still players die to little things, like a level 2 Moa. That was all nerfed however to appeal to those not accustomed to mobile combat/action games, and then nerfed again for the NPE. HoT will likely end up seeing a lot more nerfs at some point, assuming they care more about selling it.

flog.3485:

Yeah….No, the only real content that is targeted at higher skilled players are raids, which does not account for the whole expansion in itself. And we are not forced into it

HoT was definitely balanced more towards the gamers, which are the higher skilled players in comparison. The average MMO player is not a gamer, but rather someone who plays very casually (as in little effort) and mostly for fun. It’s why almost all MMOs are like Queensdale level of difficulty when it comes to solo content, and even if it’s too difficult, there’s always vertical progression to further trivialize it.

Ranged weapons. That’s what you need OP. Keep the mobs as far from you as possible. Once you learn there tells, melee combat will be easy. I played through as a warrior first, it was a hard slog. My Guard has a bit of a more easy time of it. My ranger just face rolled her way through. Rev was a cake walk. The more you play the easier it will get. Now my warrior can melee his way through all fights.

It is definitely harder than the other maps! For me, it’s a combination of 4 things:
1. get more familiar with enemies than you’d typically need to bother to in pre-HoT maps (their attacks, weaknesses etc)
2. get better! I don’t mean in this in a mean way. I have become a lot better at GW2 since HoT, because I’ve spent more time understanding the way the different bits of my build interact
3. get those masteries. things get a lot easier once you’ve got updrafts, mushrooms, wallows etc.
4. change your build. You didn’t say what class you are playing, but I’ve done the majority of my time in HoT on ele. For open world I change my build to be slightly more defensive, using Air, Earth and Tempest traitlines. On D/W this is small drop in DPS for a big survivability gain.

Have fun!

Pause.
Look around.
Make decisions about paths to take, angles of approach, and so on based on a considered approach.

In my short experience (I only bought HoT a couple of weeks ago) the single greatest contributor to character death has been a lack of situational awareness. We did not really need to pay attention to what was going on around us in the core maps and so we became accustomed to just charging in, essentially blindly.

We did not need to be aware that a patrol passes through the spot where we intend to attack a mob because adds meant more drops, not more danger. Now one might want to be aware of patrol patterns, pull foes away from such paths, and be already thinking about what one will do if/when the unexpected spawn occurs or one is knocked into a nearby foe’s aggro range.

I am not as young as I once was I am not as good of a player as many. I lack the reflexes I had even just a few years ago. But I have found that by putting some forethought into my actions and being prepared with contingencies for the inevitable SNAFU, HoT is not particularly difficult.

Ye its like tom clancy games, where you need to stealth all over the place.. not my idea of fun. Good Luck With HoT

Ashen.2907:

Pause.
Look around.
Make decisions about paths to take, angles of approach, and so on based on a considered approach.

In my short experience (I only bought HoT a couple of weeks ago) the single greatest contributor to character death has been a lack of situational awareness. We did not really need to pay attention to what was going on around us in the core maps and so we became accustomed to just charging in, essentially blindly.

We did not need to be aware that a patrol passes through the spot where we intend to attack a mob because adds meant more drops, not more danger. Now one might want to be aware of patrol patterns, pull foes away from such paths, and be already thinking about what one will do if/when the unexpected spawn occurs or one is knocked into a nearby foe’s aggro range.

I am not as young as I once was I am not as good of a player as many. I lack the reflexes I had even just a few years ago. But I have found that by putting some forethought into my actions and being prepared with contingencies for the inevitable SNAFU, HoT is not particularly difficult.

One big issue with these maps is, you see where you want to go (even if it’s looking only at the map since you cannot spot a Mastery Point from the ground), you look around, you find a path…and end up being driven in the opposite direction than you intended, and no clearer paths can be found. I only got two Mastery Points in Verdant Brink because the rest are either in really difficult areas, or can’t even be seen no matter where I go. These maps are a chore, not fun, and I can’t go “enjoy the scenery” and fully explore because I’m always trying not to get killed or fall to my death.

Moyayuki.3619:

Ashen.2907:

Pause.
Look around.
Make decisions about paths to take, angles of approach, and so on based on a considered approach.

In my short experience (I only bought HoT a couple of weeks ago) the single greatest contributor to character death has been a lack of situational awareness. We did not really need to pay attention to what was going on around us in the core maps and so we became accustomed to just charging in, essentially blindly.

We did not need to be aware that a patrol passes through the spot where we intend to attack a mob because adds meant more drops, not more danger. Now one might want to be aware of patrol patterns, pull foes away from such paths, and be already thinking about what one will do if/when the unexpected spawn occurs or one is knocked into a nearby foe’s aggro range.

I am not as young as I once was I am not as good of a player as many. I lack the reflexes I had even just a few years ago. But I have found that by putting some forethought into my actions and being prepared with contingencies for the inevitable SNAFU, HoT is not particularly difficult.

One big issue with these maps is, you see where you want to go (even if it’s looking only at the map since you cannot spot a Mastery Point from the ground), you look around, you find a path…and end up being driven in the opposite direction than you intended, and no clearer paths can be found. I only got two Mastery Points in Verdant Brink because the rest are either in really difficult areas, or can’t even be seen no matter where I go. These maps are a chore, not fun, and I can’t go “enjoy the scenery” and fully explore because I’m always trying not to get killed or fall to my death.

I find these maps fun, because I like the puzzle of figuring out where stuff is. It’s like the old games in the old days. Before places like Dulfy. Even before hint books.

And I enjoy exploring the new zones, because they need to be solved like a puzzle. And once you do solve that puzzle, like any other puzzle they become easier.

But if you’re not enjoying that sort of thing, watch a video. You’ll get the info you need on where stuff is. Most of the stuff is probably not as hard as you think.

Your problem might be a very bad build for HoT exploration.
What profession, weapon and skills do you use?
Do you eat a mango pie every half hour?

All professions can have have a heavy amount of sustain and/or combat avoidance. You should not fight your way through the map. You don’t get map completion or map achievements by killing every mob. You do it by taking objectives.

I find this much more relaxing than some holy trinity mmo where you’re often forced to fight all the mobs you aggro.

Unlock elite specialization.

Go nearly full Berserker.

Use lifesteal to stay alive.

Here is my advice. It worked for me.

I’m assuming you are starting Verdant Brink without unlocking elite and no head start on mastery points. Going full Berserker under those conditions is insanity. You must start with a minion master necro in full Soldier’s gear. People tell you that you need to learn how to fight the new mobs. How can you do that if you die all the time? You won’t die as a minion master necro in full soldier’s.

You DO NOT need ascended armor or weapons or trinkets. Exotic soldier’s for everything will be just fine. Trust me.

Use a staff and dagger/warhorn or axe/warhorn. Stand back and let your pets do the killing. You’ll have close to 30,000 hit points and be tough as nails. The reason this works is that while you don’t kill exceptionally fast you can kill just about anything in a reasonable time and stay alive. Trust me it works. Your goal the first time out is not to kill fast but to map the area, become familiar with the area without having the benefit of the elite and the masteries and to build up hero and mastery points.

This is not what I would recommend for your second or third character but for your first it is essential. You can’t learn anything if you die all the time and you will die all the time in zerker gear. Once you learn the maps, the encounters and the things you have to fight then sure you can use zerker gear. BUT NOT THE FIRST TIME THROUGH.

This build is cheap and highly survivable. You can solo most of the hero point champs with it and you can use it to build up mastery and hero points. It is not my build. I found it somewhere in the forums and I can’t recall who posted it. My thanks to that person. Here is the basic build. I promise that if you go to Verdant Brink with this you will achieve your goals.

Forgot to post the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRUQNBmQDbkhGaqxuawtGYvxBuQBbzAoFk5wOcDzioJ6XA-ThSBwA4U/xoyPr7P05KAA4BAs4gAw28XKNDu0BIRJIhACsFA-e

Moyayuki.3619:

Ashen.2907:

Pause.
Look around.
Make decisions about paths to take, angles of approach, and so on based on a considered approach.

In my short experience (I only bought HoT a couple of weeks ago) the single greatest contributor to character death has been a lack of situational awareness. We did not really need to pay attention to what was going on around us in the core maps and so we became accustomed to just charging in, essentially blindly.

We did not need to be aware that a patrol passes through the spot where we intend to attack a mob because adds meant more drops, not more danger. Now one might want to be aware of patrol patterns, pull foes away from such paths, and be already thinking about what one will do if/when the unexpected spawn occurs or one is knocked into a nearby foe’s aggro range.

I am not as young as I once was I am not as good of a player as many. I lack the reflexes I had even just a few years ago. But I have found that by putting some forethought into my actions and being prepared with contingencies for the inevitable SNAFU, HoT is not particularly difficult.

One big issue with these maps is, you see where you want to go (even if it’s looking only at the map since you cannot spot a Mastery Point from the ground), you look around, you find a path…and end up being driven in the opposite direction than you intended, and no clearer paths can be found. I only got two Mastery Points in Verdant Brink because the rest are either in really difficult areas, or can’t even be seen no matter where I go. These maps are a chore, not fun, and I can’t go “enjoy the scenery” and fully explore because I’m always trying not to get killed or fall to my death.

Ahh, see I was talking about survival, not navigation. If you don’t like mazes, navigation puzzles in general, then you will find much of HoT to be a chore. The combat aspects though, I stand by my statement that many of the problems people describe can be attributed to situational awareness.

Honestly, I feel it’s the lack of experience against the mobs that people find difficult. They don’t know what they do, or how to fight them yet, where as core you were basically fighting the same mobs over and over from 1 to 80. That bandit in the starter zone? Doing the same attacks and moves all the way to 80 zones.

Right now I’m helping a friend who never played before, and I watched him die to a lv 6 harpy swoop attack, because he didn’t know he just needed to dodge or move back.

So I think once you start learning the patterns of the mob, it becomes second hand nature and easier.

Moyayuki.3619:

One big issue with these maps is, you see where you want to go (even if it’s looking only at the map since you cannot spot a Mastery Point from the ground), you look around, you find a path…and end up being driven in the opposite direction than you intended, and no clearer paths can be found. I only got two Mastery Points in Verdant Brink because the rest are either in really difficult areas, or can’t even be seen no matter where I go. These maps are a chore, not fun, and I can’t go “enjoy the scenery” and fully explore because I’m always trying not to get killed or fall to my death.

Everyone’s been in that boat, but it does get better as you get to know the map and unlock more masteries. VB’s my personal favourite map because of it’s openess. To get a tour of the map, do the personal story or the day time events. During the day time, just follow the events (Itzel, nobles, ordinance core, pale reavers and pact encampment). Masteries aren’t mandatory for these (except mushrooms for the final step in ordianace core). Pale reavers and Itzel are the most accessible as they start near the entry into VB.

For specific HP’s or MP’s, Dulfy has guides that’ll show you how to get to each one and what masteries you need.

Finally, certain masteries are important to be able to get the most out of each map:
VB – updrafts, jumping mushrooms (stealth detect for axemaster boss, but usually other players will have this)
AB – exalted markings (updrafts for east meta)
TD – nuhoch wallows (jumping mushrooms for nuhoch lane, exalted markings for underwater)
DS – updrafts (lay line gliding required for certain post-meta areas, poison mastery for certain lane events)

Moyayuki.3619:

Ashen.2907:

Pause.
Look around.
Make decisions about paths to take, angles of approach, and so on based on a considered approach.

In my short experience (I only bought HoT a couple of weeks ago) the single greatest contributor to character death has been a lack of situational awareness. We did not really need to pay attention to what was going on around us in the core maps and so we became accustomed to just charging in, essentially blindly.

We did not need to be aware that a patrol passes through the spot where we intend to attack a mob because adds meant more drops, not more danger. Now one might want to be aware of patrol patterns, pull foes away from such paths, and be already thinking about what one will do if/when the unexpected spawn occurs or one is knocked into a nearby foe’s aggro range.

I am not as young as I once was I am not as good of a player as many. I lack the reflexes I had even just a few years ago. But I have found that by putting some forethought into my actions and being prepared with contingencies for the inevitable SNAFU, HoT is not particularly difficult.

One big issue with these maps is, you see where you want to go (even if it’s looking only at the map since you cannot spot a Mastery Point from the ground), you look around, you find a path…and end up being driven in the opposite direction than you intended, and no clearer paths can be found. I only got two Mastery Points in Verdant Brink because the rest are either in really difficult areas, or can’t even be seen no matter where I go. These maps are a chore, not fun, and I can’t go “enjoy the scenery” and fully explore because I’m always trying not to get killed or fall to my death.

You just need to understand how these maps are designed. When you see that mastery point on the map, expect that it isn’t likely to be at the same elevation as you currently find yourself. Next, figure out whether it’s above or below you. After that, it gets a little tricky because you need to learn your way around.

VB is a very open map, but many of the objectives may only be reached via the canopy. Contrary to what many players seem to believe, there are several routes into the canopy – not just when the boss event is going and the helicopters are available for transport. Learn these routes and the map becomes easy to navigate:

- Mellaggan’s Valor Waypoint – Hop the updraft on top of the rocks at the head of the eastern entrance and glide over to the updraft on top of the airship wreckage and then onto the airship itself. Follow the back of the airship to the fins. There’s a vista at the top. You can then glide over to a wooden plank platform, on which you’ll find one of the mastery strongboxes (there’s also an HP and another mastery strongbox somewhat northwest of this area that you can glide to from this point). On the opposite end of this platform, you’ll find a jump mushroom that launches you up onto a circular platform. A nearby updraft will lift you above the cloud cover, allowing you to use updrafts to glide to just about anywhere on the map.

Faren’s Flyer Waypoint – Take the trail to the top of the mountain, run up the ramp at the top of the trail and glide over to the vine in the opposite direction of the vine that leads to the nearby HP and MP (grab those, too!). Cross this vine and you can glide to another HP. You can also access a chain of updrafts into the canopy here.

Shrouded Ruins Waypoint – Head west and up the stairs. Continue up onto the plateau where you’ll find a jump mushroom. Cross over some rocks to a large vine. Follow this to a platform with fire wyverns on it. Cross through the middle to a jump mushroom on the far side. This lands you at the base of a jump puzzle that grants a mastery point. You can also glide from here and use updrafts to reach a nearby HP.

Many of the other mastery and hero points are easy to reach. There are several down in the ravines, a couple of them you’ll notice are right next to nuhoch wallows, but you don’t need to unlock wallows to reach them. Just free fall down into the ravine and deploy your glider when you get close to the HP. There’s even an HP right next to the southwesternmost waypoint.

If you know these 3 routes, you can get into the canopy and go directly to those hard-to-reach objectives. The rest are on the ground or down below in the canyons. Run the event cycle a few times and you should know your way around well enough to reach all of them.

If you’d like some assistance in finding these routes and objectives, I’m always happy to help another player find their footing in the jungle.

HoT difficult is the same as Orr was pre-nerf. Does anyone remember how Orr was during the first couple of months? Getting mobbed down by risen.

Ulion.5476:

HoT difficult is the same as Orr was pre-nerf. Does anyone remember how Orr was during the first couple of months? Getting mobbed down by risen.

I was thinking the same thing. Temple of Grenth was a graveyard and getting ganked by risen mobs was the norm. Anyone remember the Abomination that patrolled Lyssa’s temple? If you got it up to 25 stacks of frenzy, it would run around like Sonic the Hedgehog and down entire zergs in less than a couple seconds.

HoT was very difficult for me at first, but some of that difficulty had o do with the fact that I’ve gotten lazy over the years facerolling world bosses and cruise controlling through new content as there wasn’t many new challenges since the end of LS 1. Once you nail down the mechanics and know how to cheese the AI, it will get a lot easier. It’s not uncommon for me to solo a camp at night in Verdant Brinks without any issue. Or do most champion hero points in VB or AB solo with moderately good chances of survival. Practice makes perfect, so don’t get aggravated when you die. Instead, use that as a learning opportunity. What did you do wrong, were you to aggressive, to defensive, did you have the wrong skills equipped, dodge at the wrong time, etc. Take notes and avoid making the same mistakes.

And most importantly, beware of scaled up mobs. People who AFK in an area or start swarming in will only add additional challenge if you plan to defend that area. If something feels obviously over powered, it’s probably scaled up. Back off and play more defensively unless you’re confident in your abilities.

Unless the underlying numbers say that a PvE battle cannot be won, PvE “difficulty” is largely a matter of learning what to do to bring “your” numbers to bear on the fight while limiting the mob’s ability to bring its numbers to bear. Since mobs almost always do the same things, once you’ve figured out what to do you can do it every time. PvE difficulty melts away once you’ve passed the learning curve.

With core GW2, it’s rare that mobs demand you to do anything other than (maybe) a basic rotation and a dodge, if anything. Some mobs can be beaten with the #1 attack and face-tanking. Players don’t really learn how to overcome challenge because the game demands it only in certain situations, which are usually chaotic and filled with overdone effects that make it hard to pick up on what’s going on.

With HoT, there are some mobs and some groups of mobs that can kill a character. The learning curve on some HoT mobs is definitely steeper than on most core mobs. Just as in core, there are definitely boss mechanics that can kill one. The same problems in large-scale core events (particle effects, tons of AoE circles, add mobs coming from everywhere) exist in large-scale HoT events. The large-scale HoT events are harder than core ones only insofar as the adds may hit harder because they’re regular HoT mobs, at least as far as I can tell.

flog.3485:

<snip> All mobs are pretty squishy in fact, except for beetles, but they are clearly not threatening. <snip>

I realise it’s a fantasy game but claiming that almost all HoT mobs are “pretty squishy” is too much.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Is there any advise people can give for dealing with the new maps?

Get yourself a thief with a shortbow and stealth skills.
Use more tanky armor – for example you can buy with karma soldier’s set from the npc at the gates of Arah, they have runes of infiltration, that give you stealth when your HP is down to 20%.

finkle.9513:

Ye its like tom clancy games, where you need to stealth all over the place.. not my idea of fun. Good Luck With HoT

Never played a Tom Clancy game, is that what you do in them? Sounds terrible.

I don’t have stealth on any of my toons. Stealth was suggested for people who are having trouble getting around. Same can be said for Orr for instance, this isn’t a mechanic specific to HoT maps.

All the maps can be easily got round by watching a video or two and looking up what you need to do on Dulfy. Additionally map chat is full of people probably doing the same things you want to do. I highly recommend using other players to achieve your goals.

General Health.9678:

finkle.9513:

Ye its like tom clancy games, where you need to stealth all over the place.. not my idea of fun. Good Luck With HoT

[snip]
All the maps can be easily got round by watching a video or two and looking up what you need to do on Dulfy. Additionally map chat is full of people probably doing the same things you want to do. I highly recommend using other players to achieve your goals.

I would agree minus the word “easily”. Some people, however, just like to play their game rather than work it through researching how to get to every location (e.g., hero points). Watching videos to play a video game?

And, I’m definitely in the OP’s camp. Sadly I can’t give the stock answers above as they won’t change the game design. The mob difficulty aspects are the same ones we faced in the original Orr, annoying mobs (chain-CC anyone?), mob density, and respawn rate. The mobs seemed to be everywhere and if they caught you in their CC you would die. The mob difficulty is not hard to fix. The inherent obscurity of the map worlds will be hard to fix. Obscurity is deep-designed into the game. The relationship of obscurity and puzzle is a difficult one to navigate. You can end up with fun or frustration and punishment. HoT is not fun for me.

Raine.1394:

Some people, however, just like to play their game rather than work it through researching how to get to every location (e.g., hero points). Watching videos to play a video game?

I equate it to old-school reading the user’s manual for a game, or more currently to reading the PHB for D&D (or any table-top RPG). My current 5e campaign has been going on for almost a year, and we all still reference/read the PHB before/after/during play to figure out better ways to accomplish our goals.

It might not be for everyone, but the tools for researching how to be better at games have existed in one form or another for a very long time, and for every game format. If you find the subject interesting enough, research won’t feel like work and it can be a lot less frustrating than perpetual trial-and-error.

~EW

DoctorDing.5890:

flog.3485:

DoctorDing.5890:

Yeah. Welcome to HoT. A whole expansion that is targeted solely at the higher skilled players. And Anet wonder why it is not as successful as they hoped….

Yeah….No, the only real content that is targeted at higher skilled players are raids, which does not account for the whole expansion in itself. And we are not forced into it

Maybe you need to read the OP’s post again. That is someone who expected HoT to be harder but is still surprised at the difficulty level. They are not talking about raids. HoT is frustrating rather than fun. It is not a success.

HoT just seems normal to me. In comparison, the other maps are just face-roll easy.

I main Ranger, and I don’t even have to press buttons in core maps — my pet kills things for me while I AFK. In HoT I have to dodge a bit and maybe lay down some suppressive abilities, but that just feels average — like it was meant to be.

Ulion.5476:

HoT difficult is the same as Orr was pre-nerf. Does anyone remember how Orr was during the first couple of months? Getting mobbed down by risen.

I miss the old Orr. Now it’s borderline face-roll.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Raine.1394:

Some people, however, just like to play their game rather than work it through researching how to get to every location (e.g., hero points). Watching videos to play a video game?

I equate it to old-school reading the user’s manual for a game, or more currently to reading the PHB for D&D (or any table-top RPG). My current 5e campaign has been going on for almost a year, and we all still reference/read the PHB before/after/during play to figure out better ways to accomplish our goals.

It might not be for everyone, but the tools for researching how to be better at games have existed in one form or another for a very long time, and for every game format. If you find the subject interesting enough, research won’t feel like work and it can be a lot less frustrating than perpetual trial-and-error.

~EW

I’m not sure if the comparison to a rule book holds up. That would be more like looking up stuff like algorithms and math as used in game design. The PHB is about the mechanics behind the PNP game. You aren’t likely to see a walk-through about how to navigate your group DM’s dungeon, or how to win over the city watch captain who is on your case.

Also, online resources like videos of video game content are definitely not for those whose enjoyment comes from the process of discovery. I can see why using them is so common, though. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on finishing goals, as opposed to accomplishing them.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m not sure if the comparison to a rule book holds up. That would be more like looking up stuff like algorithms and math as used in game design. The PHB is about the mechanics behind the PNP game. You aren’t likely to see a walk-through about how to navigate your group DM’s dungeon, or how to win over the city watch captain who is on your case.

I see your point. Hmmm… maybe a better analogy would be way back when reading Nintendo Power and similar magazines. Those did have walkthroughs for some levels, as well as secrets and hints…. GameFAQs.com serves the same purpose, and has existed for years. Regardless, though the format may have changed from text to video, the idea is still the same.. and it’s an established tool some people use to get better at a game.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Also, online resources like videos of video game content are definitely not for those whose enjoyment comes from the process of discovery. I can see why using them is so common, though. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on finishing goals, as opposed to accomplishing them.

Agreed.

My own tastes have me alternating between both methods. The majority of the time I do trial and error until I’m out of ideas, then look it up and try with the newly researched info. Usually this is in context of things like Map Completion, especially HoT. However if I know I’m going to be in a circumstance where others are going to depend on me (some meta events, for example) then I prefer to research ahead of time. It might destroy discovery, but that doesn’t mean it destroys all challenge.

~EW

To the OP, I would say the beginning of HoT was turn-off for me as well. VB without the mastries is a major pain in the butt (same for all HoT maps). They where a major turn-off that for the first 2 weeks or so I did not play HoT maps, but leveled a Rev and ran sPvP. Once I began accumulating HoT masties, life was okay.

As for difficulty, it varies significantly based on what class you are playing. I find HoT maps on some classes/builds to be a struggle and face roll to the point of soloing champions on others. This has much to do class design and balance. The classes are balanced around sPvP in terms of survivablity. Problem is in PvE (solo in particular) survivablity works differently. Hit and run tactics do not work in PvE. Many mobs have CC bars that you have to break to CC them, where in sPvP you can instantly CC players. Some mobs like ranged Itzel can be only described as cheap.

Overall though, HoT content difficulty is in line with the power creep done between 6/23/15 patch and elite lines with HoT. In fact, I wish the raise the difficulty of some of the older content. I really dislike face rolling Cursed Shore.

I’ve noticed that over the last few weeks, the term “face roll” has increased in usage. I wonder why? And what does it even mean? You aren’t rolling your face on enemies due to them being so easy. No idea where it came from (sorry for deviating from the discussion; I just don’t see a good enough reason to make a separate thread just for that question…)

Moyayuki.3619:

I’ve noticed that over the last few weeks, the term “face roll” has increased in usage. I wonder why? And what does it even mean? You aren’t rolling your face on enemies due to them being so easy. No idea where it came from (sorry for deviating from the discussion; I just don’t see a good enough reason to make a separate thread just for that question…)

It means there is no challenge or strategy required to play. You can “roll your face” over the keyboard, and any of the keys you randomly trigger will work just fine for accomplishing your goal in the game.

~EW

When hot first came out i was a was wearing the lvl 78 story armor on my reaper. I maxed his hero points out and got my masteries up. It is not designed for the 1% of players. Its designed to be more difficult because pre HOT all people complained about was how easy thi gs were. Effort isnt a bad thing. Casual doesnt mean trot around doing kitten near nothing like in the core maps.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Moyayuki.3619:

I’ve noticed that over the last few weeks, the term “face roll” has increased in usage. I wonder why? And what does it even mean? You aren’t rolling your face on enemies due to them being so easy. No idea where it came from (sorry for deviating from the discussion; I just don’t see a good enough reason to make a separate thread just for that question…)

It means there is no challenge or strategy required to play. You can “roll your face” over the keyboard, and any of the keys you randomly trigger will work just fine for accomplishing your goal in the game.

~EW

Okay, thanks for the explanation. Guess I am one of the few people who don’t complain about core zones being relatively “easy”. After all, you can essentially think of them as training/practicing grounds. The real challenges lie in things like dungeons, raids, WvW, PvP, later Living Story seasons, etc.

It’s just a shame that HoT’s maps’ designs make it really hard for someone like me to do anything. Always getting lost or dying, but don’t like the idea of watching videos about everything. The jump between even SW and HoT is insane, IMO. No real middle ground.

Moyayuki.3619:

Okay, thanks for the explanation. Guess I am one of the few people who don’t complain about core zones being relatively “easy”. After all, you can essentially think of them as training/practicing grounds. The real challenges lie in things like dungeons, raids, WvW, PvP, later Living Story seasons, etc.

It’s just a shame that HoT’s maps’ designs make it really hard for someone like me to do anything. Always getting lost or dying, but don’t like the idea of watching videos about everything. The jump between even SW and HoT is insane, IMO. No real middle ground.

My experiences with HoT is a little different. Throughout core Tyria I was/am always playing with survivability builds… my philosophy is that if trash mobs and vets (in core) don’t matter, then I should make my character in such a way that I can survive and best champs.

So, when I entered HoT for the first time, I often didn’t die. I definitely took more damage than I was used to, and had to learn to move even more than normal. This is not to brag, so I’m sorry if I come off that way, but to show that how I approached core Tyria informed my initial experiences in HoT.

Now, I did (and still do) get lost trying to find stuff. It definitely takes time to navigate these maps, with so many paths having dead-ends or objectives requiring masteries to access. A build that lends itself to survivability removes some of the stress when running into dead ends. I usually only use the videos when I run out of ideas.

All that being said, the HoT flavor means I don’t log in and play HoT content during the week, except maybe Octovine. I don’t find it relaxing to play in HoT after work, and that’s when my intentions for gaming are to unwind… Whereas on the weekend I have more time to play and my intentions change to be actively engaged/challenged. That’s when I play and enjoy what HoT has to offer.

The following isn’t a solution to all your problems in HoT, but you might find it helpful. Check out the list of environmental weapons sold by NPCs on the wiki: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Environmental_weapons_sold_by_npc

The most useful ones I’ve found to use in HoT are: 1) Ogre Pet Whistle and Fire Elemental Powder to get a bit of pet distraction when you need it, 2) Experimental Rifle for navigating weird jumps that gliding won’t work at, 3) Ash Legion Spy Kit for dropping aggro to grab a commune-point. Also, it’s not listed there, but the Harpy Feathers are great for getting past packs of pocket raptors: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Harpy_Feathers_

Sorry for the huge amount of text. If anyone feels tl;dr, then the last part is probably the most useful to anyone who’s having HoT problems.

~EW

Essentially: Everything that you learned and could do in Vanilla (“full berserker DPS spam 1111 auto assault” tactic), throw them away and it’s time to learn the gameplay mechanics that ANet didn’t teach you properly and didn’t include in the mob designs in the first place.

The content was abit nerfed during last quarterly update, so they’re not as punishing like they used to.

It’s just time to learn proper dodging, aggro management, skill usage during combat, creating builds with more functionality, DPS, Control and Support build trinity.

Raine.1394:

Some people, however, just like to play their game rather than work it through researching how to get to every location (e.g., hero points). Watching videos to play a video game?

Some people like to complain they can’t play the game because they can’t get round. To them I’d suggest watch a video.

Watching videos to play a video game? Well yeah.. I don’t know why you question that. When people get in the car they put on their sat nav or get out a map. When learning a language you get a dictionary and thesaurus. When a new game comes out you watch the trailer. When you want to know what reviewers think you watch the video they made. When you want to know what a game plays like you watch.. well the video. I guess I’m saying people make videos of videos games that people watch.

I loved exploring TD, it was fun to fall down a massive hole into a new place the turned out to be the main lane down to the confluence waypoint. It was a bit annoying to go round in the same circle ten times trying to get to a hero point. Jump over to dulfy and watch the video. Is that not what people do? I find it weird that rather than doing that someone would come on the forums and demand anet make the map easier. But maybe I’ve got it wrong.

You should have played during opening week, THAT was hard.

I don’t have a advice that others haven’t already said, but I’m here to tell you OP, as someone is definitely NOT hardcore, elite, etc., you will learn these maps, and they will become easier to you.

Caveat: I do run a reaper with all berserker stats, but the use of minions helps keep the focus off of me while I DPS the mobs down. I actually look forward to jumping into a crowd of Pocket Raptors.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Essentially: Everything that you learned and could do in Vanilla (“full berserker DPS spam 1111 auto assault” tactic), throw them away and it’s time to learn the gameplay mechanics that ANet didn’t teach you properly and didn’t include in the mob designs in the first place.

The content was abit nerfed during last quarterly update, so they’re not as punishing like they used to.

It’s just time to learn proper dodging, aggro management, skill usage during combat, creating builds with more functionality, DPS, Control and Support build trinity.

I don’t know about you, but I don’t find myself mindlessly hitting “11111111” in core Tyria all the time. Don’t know where this mindset has come from.

General Health.9678:

Raine.1394:

Some people, however, just like to play their game rather than work it through researching how to get to every location (e.g., hero points). Watching videos to play a video game?

Some people like to complain they can’t play the game because they can’t get round. To them I’d suggest watch a video.

Watching videos to play a video game? Well yeah.. I don’t know why you question that. When people get in the car they put on their sat nav or get out a map. When learning a language you get a dictionary and thesaurus. When a new game comes out you watch the trailer. When you want to know what reviewers think you watch the video they made. When you want to know what a game plays like you watch.. well the video. I guess I’m saying people make videos of videos games that people watch.

I loved exploring TD, it was fun to fall down a massive hole into a new place the turned out to be the main lane down to the confluence waypoint. It was a bit annoying to go round in the same circle ten times trying to get to a hero point. Jump over to dulfy and watch the video. Is that not what people do? I find it weird that rather than doing that someone would come on the forums and demand anet make the map easier. But maybe I’ve got it wrong.

But watching a video or reading a guide won’t stop HoT from being what it is. For some people, it will still be obnoxious and difficult. I really don’t like this mentality of some people that “Oh, HoT was easy for me, so what’s your problem? If it’s hard for you, don’t bother talking about it. Your opinion doesn’t matter.” At least, that’s the impression I get from many comments in these forums. Which is quite unfair. Those of us who may not be super-skilled or have the best toons still want to experience the expansion material and actually play through the story. But it’s hard when some of us hit very debilitating road blocks in overly convoluted maps with ridiculous enemies (mushrooms, anyone? WTH is wrong with those?!). I don’t like feeling that I must “learn to play” or else just drop the expansion entirely.

Moyayuki.3619:

FrostSpectre.4198:

Essentially: Everything that you learned and could do in Vanilla (“full berserker DPS spam 1111 auto assault” tactic), throw them away and it’s time to learn the gameplay mechanics that ANet didn’t teach you properly and didn’t include in the mob designs in the first place.

The content was abit nerfed during last quarterly update, so they’re not as punishing like they used to.

It’s just time to learn proper dodging, aggro management, skill usage during combat, creating builds with more functionality, DPS, Control and Support build trinity.

I don’t know about you, but I don’t find myself mindlessly hitting “11111111” in core Tyria all the time. Don’t know where this mindset has come from.

The mindset arises when people can 111111111 through core Tyria and still win. This is because the mobs in those zones are so easy, they really don’t require more. It’s true that you may use other skills, but it’s also true that you could do less and likely wouldn’t lose/die.

That being said, most people can’t do a minimum of 1111111111 through HoT maps. In HoT, the minimum is more advanced.