But watching a video or reading a guide won’t stop HoT from being what it is.
Obviously. It will help you get where you need to go however. Seeing a puny Asura mesmer bobbing round the whole map getting map complete should put things into perspective.
For some people, it will still be obnoxious and difficult.
Who are these people? Did they look at the guides I keep banging on about? Why are you talking for other people you don’t know? You can say “it is too hard” about anything, I can’t cook French food, it’s obnoxious and difficult.
Those of us who may not be super-skilled or have the best toons still want to experience the expansion material and actually play through the story.
Fortunately you can as HoT isn’t that hard AND got a nerf in April. I’m not super-skilled. I run one of each profession, all elite, in full berserker gear. I’ve got all HoT maps complete on four of them and am working the rest through, a map at a time. I have a habit of standing still and pressing 1 to kill things. I often mis-time my rooted attack so I’m stood in the big orange circle when it hits. I often hit dodge AFTER I’ve been run over by something. I seem to be doing ok.
But it’s hard when some of us hit very debilitating road blocks in overly convoluted maps with ridiculous enemies (mushrooms, anyone? WTH is wrong with those?!). I don’t like feeling that I must “learn to play” or else just drop the expansion entirely.
If you’ve already decided it’s too hard and you can’t play it then you have already made up your mind. I don’t know what you think is being expected of you when you are told to learn to play but I’ll make the same suggestion I keep making.. watch a video of the maps being completed and stop thinking they’re too hard for you. There are a few people on the forums (and more in-game) who will help you get round a map or to somewhere in a map. Can’t make you enjoy the game but the offer of help is there if you want it. And I’m just saying.. when I play in HoT maps I have the interactive mmorpg-life map open on my second screen with dulfy.net in a second tab on that screen. I always know where I’m going and how to get there.
But watching a video or reading a guide won’t stop HoT from being what it is.
Obviously. It will help you get where you need to go however. Seeing a puny Asura mesmer bobbing round the whole map getting map complete should put things into perspective.
For some people, it will still be obnoxious and difficult.
Who are these people? Did they look at the guides I keep banging on about? Why are you talking for other people you don’t know? You can say “it is too hard” about anything, I can’t cook French food, it’s obnoxious and difficult.
Those of us who may not be super-skilled or have the best toons still want to experience the expansion material and actually play through the story.
Fortunately you can as HoT isn’t that hard AND got a nerf in April. I’m not super-skilled. I run one of each profession, all elite, in full berserker gear. I’ve got all HoT maps complete on four of them and am working the rest through, a map at a time. I have a habit of standing still and pressing 1 to kill things. I often mis-time my rooted attack so I’m stood in the big orange circle when it hits. I often hit dodge AFTER I’ve been run over by something. I seem to be doing ok.
But it’s hard when some of us hit very debilitating road blocks in overly convoluted maps with ridiculous enemies (mushrooms, anyone? WTH is wrong with those?!). I don’t like feeling that I must “learn to play” or else just drop the expansion entirely.
If you’ve already decided it’s too hard and you can’t play it then you have already made up your mind. I don’t know what you think is being expected of you when you are told to learn to play but I’ll make the same suggestion I keep making.. watch a video of the maps being completed and stop thinking they’re too hard for you. There are a few people on the forums (and more in-game) who will help you get round a map or to somewhere in a map. Can’t make you enjoy the game but the offer of help is there if you want it. And I’m just saying.. when I play in HoT maps I have the interactive mmorpg-life map open on my second screen with dulfy.net in a second tab on that screen. I always know where I’m going and how to get there.
I don’t know why you are continuously being harsh with me when it is obvious that you and I both have different play styles and view different things as “easy” or “hard”. Great, HoT is easy for you. Want a medal? Also, not everyone has two screens to conveniently play the game while also referring to Dulfy or YouTube or whatever else people use. So it’s therefore more inconvenient for me.
Also please notice that when I talked about "other people’, I said “SOME”, since I DO see comments and threads in these forums claiming that HoT is hard for them, so…therefore…logically…that means that there IS a population that DOES find HoT hard. I’m just not making a GENERALIZATION claiming that ALL people find it hard. I said SOME. I know not to make sweeping generalizations about an entire gaming community.
In VB, I managed to get through to the other end and entered Tangled Depths so that I had the WP for there. However, even getting that far was incredibly difficult for me. I struggle with even VB, so therefore it’s going to take a very long time for me to get the mushroom jumping mastery, which is needed to get to the MPs and HPs and so forth that are out of reach. So it’s a vicious cycle. Therefore, it’s more of the struggle of getting enough XP for the masteries that is making traversing the maps hard and frustrating, more than simply being lost.
Also, I apologize for snapping at you. I just get frustrated when people give off an attitude that because they had no issues with HoT, then it’s unacceptable for anyone else to have issues. This does not have to be personal, you know. You can have fun playing HoT as much as you want.
But watching a video or reading a guide won’t stop HoT from being what it is.
Obviously. It will help you get where you need to go however. Seeing a puny Asura mesmer bobbing round the whole map getting map complete should put things into perspective.
For some people, it will still be obnoxious and difficult.
Who are these people? Did they look at the guides I keep banging on about? Why are you talking for other people you don’t know? You can say “it is too hard” about anything, I can’t cook French food, it’s obnoxious and difficult.
Those of us who may not be super-skilled or have the best toons still want to experience the expansion material and actually play through the story.
Fortunately you can as HoT isn’t that hard AND got a nerf in April. I’m not super-skilled. I run one of each profession, all elite, in full berserker gear. I’ve got all HoT maps complete on four of them and am working the rest through, a map at a time. I have a habit of standing still and pressing 1 to kill things. I often mis-time my rooted attack so I’m stood in the big orange circle when it hits. I often hit dodge AFTER I’ve been run over by something. I seem to be doing ok.
But it’s hard when some of us hit very debilitating road blocks in overly convoluted maps with ridiculous enemies (mushrooms, anyone? WTH is wrong with those?!). I don’t like feeling that I must “learn to play” or else just drop the expansion entirely.
If you’ve already decided it’s too hard and you can’t play it then you have already made up your mind. I don’t know what you think is being expected of you when you are told to learn to play but I’ll make the same suggestion I keep making.. watch a video of the maps being completed and stop thinking they’re too hard for you. There are a few people on the forums (and more in-game) who will help you get round a map or to somewhere in a map. Can’t make you enjoy the game but the offer of help is there if you want it. And I’m just saying.. when I play in HoT maps I have the interactive mmorpg-life map open on my second screen with dulfy.net in a second tab on that screen. I always know where I’m going and how to get there.
I don’t know why you are continuously being harsh with me when it is obvious that you and I both have different play styles and view different things as “easy” or “hard”. Great, HoT is easy for you. Want a medal? Also, not everyone has two screens to conveniently play the game while also referring to Dulfy or YouTube or whatever else people use. So it’s therefore more inconvenient for me.
Also please notice that when I talked about "other people’, I said “SOME”, since I DO see comments and threads in these forums claiming that HoT is hard for them, so…therefore…logically…that means that there IS a population that DOES find HoT hard. I’m just not making a GENERALIZATION claiming that ALL people find it hard. I said SOME. I know not to make sweeping generalizations about an entire gaming community.
In VB, I managed to get through to the other end and entered Tangled Depths so that I had the WP for there. However, even getting that far was incredibly difficult for me. I struggle with even VB, so therefore it’s going to take a very long time for me to get the mushroom jumping mastery, which is needed to get to the MPs and HPs and so forth that are out of reach. So it’s a vicious cycle. Therefore, it’s more of the struggle of getting enough XP for the masteries that is making traversing the maps hard and frustrating, more than simply being lost.
Also, I apologize for snapping at you. I just get frustrated when people give off an attitude that because they had no issues with HoT, then it’s unacceptable for anyone else to have issues. This does not have to be personal, you know. You can have fun playing HoT as much as you want.
I can understand your position, but also try to understand ours. We are not trying to give off an attitude with you because you are having issues with HoT. Rather, we took steps to overcome our own issues. For some this meant watching a video, reading a guide, changing their build, improving their knowledge of NPC’s, or simply grabbing a friend. Then we see this and feel like you are “complaining” about content you haven’t even tried to overcome/improve-yourself-over/adapt. That is not to say that you have not — I’m sure you have done some things that just haven’t worked for you — but that is what it looks like.
So how about this: I am totally willing to escort/adventure with you throughout the maps. This does not mean we will be unkillable, and I cannot guarantee that I can show you around TD without getting lost myself — but that is part of the fun. It means that you will have a helping hand in completing many of the objectives. Plus, shenanigans are awesome.
When I am not on or available, I’m positive that there are plenty of friendly adventurers willing to lend a hand in adventure.
My main’s name is Lance Bowson.
it’s a vicious cycle.
The way to do it is to have multiple toons in HoT. Think you said you don’t but that would be a good way to learn the map and get the XP you need. The other way is not to run across to the exit but just up to Jaka Itzel and do events there for XP. Then run over for a mastery point and then go to Faren’s and do events there.
Unlock the map in chunks, same as you will need to do for TD.
I play as General Health..9678 in-game for anyone who wants to play in VB for the next week or so, I really need to build up my airship currency for weapons so I’d be happy to kill two birds with one stone.
In VB, I managed to get through to the other end and entered Tangled Depths so that I had the WP for there. However, even getting that far was incredibly difficult for me. I struggle with even VB, so therefore it’s going to take a very long time for me to get the mushroom jumping mastery, which is needed to get to the MPs and HPs and so forth that are out of reach. So it’s a vicious cycle. Therefore, it’s more of the struggle of getting enough XP for the masteries that is making traversing the maps hard and frustrating, more than simply being lost.
If I may, part of your issue is that you misunderstand the design intent of these maps. You are, of course, welcome to your own preferences with regard to gameplay, but it’s clear that these maps were intended to introduce a form of open world progression, gated by masteries, by sheer complexity, and somewhat by skill unlocks (the elite spec).
If your goal is to play through these maps as quickly as possible, your frustration is understandable. They just weren’t designed that way. You’re supposed to spend a lot of time here unlocking your masteries and learning your way around before you’re ready to move on to the next map (although that’s hardly set in stone!).
In any event, I’m another who will put out a standing offer to any player who is having trouble navigating the jungle and would like some help. Add me to your contact list and hit me up in game.
I’ve noticed that over the last few weeks, the term “face roll” has increased in usage. I wonder why? And what does it even mean? You aren’t rolling your face on enemies due to them being so easy. No idea where it came from (sorry for deviating from the discussion; I just don’t see a good enough reason to make a separate thread just for that question…)
It means there is no challenge or strategy required to play. You can “roll your face” over the keyboard, and any of the keys you randomly trigger will work just fine for accomplishing your goal in the game.
~EW
Okay, thanks for the explanation. Guess I am one of the few people who don’t complain about core zones being relatively “easy”. After all, you can essentially think of them as training/practicing grounds. The real challenges lie in things like dungeons, raids, WvW, PvP, later Living Story seasons, etc.
I find it depressing that people think that the open world should be free of challenge, and that challenge should only exist in the instanced content the game offers. The open world should have been GW2’s entire focus.
I’ve noticed that over the last few weeks, the term “face roll” has increased in usage. I wonder why? And what does it even mean? You aren’t rolling your face on enemies due to them being so easy. No idea where it came from (sorry for deviating from the discussion; I just don’t see a good enough reason to make a separate thread just for that question…)
It means there is no challenge or strategy required to play. You can “roll your face” over the keyboard, and any of the keys you randomly trigger will work just fine for accomplishing your goal in the game.
~EW
Okay, thanks for the explanation. Guess I am one of the few people who don’t complain about core zones being relatively “easy”. After all, you can essentially think of them as training/practicing grounds. The real challenges lie in things like dungeons, raids, WvW, PvP, later Living Story seasons, etc.
I find it depressing that people think that the open world should be free of challenge, and that challenge should only exist in the instanced content the game offers. The open world should have been GW2’s entire focus.
think of it as public roads vs race tracks
the ordinary taxpayers will only pay for the part, that they actually use
and, they wont let you drive full speed on the roads either
you have a higher skillset, and special needs?
you find a special place, and pay for it yourself
any mmo is like a public road, they need(want) as many payers, as they can get
the majority of mmo players just want to play click-the-mob in a beautiful world
this is , what made tyria so great, and is also what made hot fall so flat
I’ve noticed that over the last few weeks, the term “face roll” has increased in usage. I wonder why? And what does it even mean? You aren’t rolling your face on enemies due to them being so easy. No idea where it came from (sorry for deviating from the discussion; I just don’t see a good enough reason to make a separate thread just for that question…)
It means there is no challenge or strategy required to play. You can “roll your face” over the keyboard, and any of the keys you randomly trigger will work just fine for accomplishing your goal in the game.
~EW
Okay, thanks for the explanation. Guess I am one of the few people who don’t complain about core zones being relatively “easy”. After all, you can essentially think of them as training/practicing grounds. The real challenges lie in things like dungeons, raids, WvW, PvP, later Living Story seasons, etc.
I find it depressing that people think that the open world should be free of challenge, and that challenge should only exist in the instanced content the game offers. The open world should have been GW2’s entire focus.
think of it as public roads vs race tracks
the ordinary taxpayers will only pay for the part, that they actually use
and, they wont let you drive full speed on the roads either
you have a higher skillset, and special needs?
you find a special place, and pay for it yourself
any mmo is like a public road, they need(want) as many payers, as they can get
the majority of mmo players just want to play click-the-mob in a beautiful world
this is , what made tyria so great, and is also what made hot fall so flat
Bad analogy if you ask me. The fact is there are people who don’t like instances and want more challenging open world content. I’m one of those people.
Locking all challenging content away in instances wouldn’t work for me and people like me.
People who like easy open world have a couple of dozen maps to play. People like me have six, if you count Dry Top and the Silverwastes.
This added to the game’s resume. It gave some of us who like it something to do that didn’t exist before.
But watching a video or reading a guide won’t stop HoT from being what it is.
Obviously. It will help you get where you need to go however. Seeing a puny Asura mesmer bobbing round the whole map getting map complete should put things into perspective.
For some people, it will still be obnoxious and difficult.
Who are these people? Did they look at the guides I keep banging on about? Why are you talking for other people you don’t know? You can say “it is too hard” about anything, I can’t cook French food, it’s obnoxious and difficult.
Those of us who may not be super-skilled or have the best toons still want to experience the expansion material and actually play through the story.
Fortunately you can as HoT isn’t that hard AND got a nerf in April. I’m not super-skilled. I run one of each profession, all elite, in full berserker gear. I’ve got all HoT maps complete on four of them and am working the rest through, a map at a time. I have a habit of standing still and pressing 1 to kill things. I often mis-time my rooted attack so I’m stood in the big orange circle when it hits. I often hit dodge AFTER I’ve been run over by something. I seem to be doing ok.
But it’s hard when some of us hit very debilitating road blocks in overly convoluted maps with ridiculous enemies (mushrooms, anyone? WTH is wrong with those?!). I don’t like feeling that I must “learn to play” or else just drop the expansion entirely.
If you’ve already decided it’s too hard and you can’t play it then you have already made up your mind. I don’t know what you think is being expected of you when you are told to learn to play but I’ll make the same suggestion I keep making.. watch a video of the maps being completed and stop thinking they’re too hard for you. There are a few people on the forums (and more in-game) who will help you get round a map or to somewhere in a map. Can’t make you enjoy the game but the offer of help is there if you want it. And I’m just saying.. when I play in HoT maps I have the interactive mmorpg-life map open on my second screen with dulfy.net in a second tab on that screen. I always know where I’m going and how to get there.
I don’t know why you are continuously being harsh with me when it is obvious that you and I both have different play styles and view different things as “easy” or “hard”. Great, HoT is easy for you. Want a medal? Also, not everyone has two screens to conveniently play the game while also referring to Dulfy or YouTube or whatever else people use. So it’s therefore more inconvenient for me.
Also please notice that when I talked about "other people’, I said “SOME”, since I DO see comments and threads in these forums claiming that HoT is hard for them, so…therefore…logically…that means that there IS a population that DOES find HoT hard. I’m just not making a GENERALIZATION claiming that ALL people find it hard. I said SOME. I know not to make sweeping generalizations about an entire gaming community.
In VB, I managed to get through to the other end and entered Tangled Depths so that I had the WP for there. However, even getting that far was incredibly difficult for me. I struggle with even VB, so therefore it’s going to take a very long time for me to get the mushroom jumping mastery, which is needed to get to the MPs and HPs and so forth that are out of reach. So it’s a vicious cycle. Therefore, it’s more of the struggle of getting enough XP for the masteries that is making traversing the maps hard and frustrating, more than simply being lost.
Also, I apologize for snapping at you. I just get frustrated when people give off an attitude that because they had no issues with HoT, then it’s unacceptable for anyone else to have issues. This does not have to be personal, you know. You can have fun playing HoT as much as you want.
I’m not saying that it’s unacceptable for people to have issues with HoT, but I do wonder why people complain and then find an excuse not to do anything suggested by anyone to make it better.
I’ve offered, many times on these forums, to take people through HoT and teach them personally how to handle it. It won’t require a second monitor. No video watching is involved.
And do you know how many people have taken me up on my offer?
Hardly any. Only two of the people who complain here have attempted it and both play HoT regularly now with no problem.
Some people, however, just like to play their game rather than work it through researching how to get to every location (e.g., hero points). Watching videos to play a video game?
I equate it to old-school reading the user’s manual for a game, or more currently to reading the PHB for D&D (or any table-top RPG). My current 5e campaign has been going on for almost a year, and we all still reference/read the PHB before/after/during play to figure out better ways to accomplish our goals.
It might not be for everyone, but the tools for researching how to be better at games have existed in one form or another for a very long time, and for every game format. If you find the subject interesting enough, research won’t feel like work and it can be a lot less frustrating than perpetual trial-and-error.
~EW
Do the players read the GM’s adventure notes or reference the published adventure module in your 5e game?
I’ve noticed that over the last few weeks, the term “face roll” has increased in usage. I wonder why? And what does it even mean? You aren’t rolling your face on enemies due to them being so easy. No idea where it came from (sorry for deviating from the discussion; I just don’t see a good enough reason to make a separate thread just for that question…)
It means there is no challenge or strategy required to play. You can “roll your face” over the keyboard, and any of the keys you randomly trigger will work just fine for accomplishing your goal in the game.
~EW
Okay, thanks for the explanation. Guess I am one of the few people who don’t complain about core zones being relatively “easy”. After all, you can essentially think of them as training/practicing grounds. The real challenges lie in things like dungeons, raids, WvW, PvP, later Living Story seasons, etc.
I find it depressing that people think that the open world should be free of challenge, and that challenge should only exist in the instanced content the game offers. The open world should have been GW2’s entire focus.
think of it as public roads vs race tracks
the ordinary taxpayers will only pay for the part, that they actually use
and, they wont let you drive full speed on the roads either
you have a higher skillset, and special needs?
you find a special place, and pay for it yourself
any mmo is like a public road, they need(want) as many payers, as they can get
the majority of mmo players just want to play click-the-mob in a beautiful world
this is , what made tyria so great, and is also what made hot fall so flat
Public highways, where I live, have both fast and slow lanes paid for by everyone. Gettingas many payers as they can get, as you put it, means producing content for as many different tastes as is practical. Anet is doint just that.
Here’s a video that always cheers me up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQvSbjjFvCY
“Heart of.. Can you not?” haha
But like everybody else is saying, it will get better. I also died a lot at first, but as a glass ele I have no problems going through the maps atm. You’ll get the hang of all the machanics, mobs and masteries over time. Just try to enjoy.
OP, I am usually a firce critic of the wibbly wobbly adventure land that still is HoT even after it was nerfed, but the mobs are not the problem, even if you are not that good of a player or don´t play a meta build. Take some time to see how mobs tepegraph, take a break if it sucks too much.
Waiting for maps, navigation and gating were, is and will be the problem of HoT.
a game is bad if becomes boring quickly. Tyria mobs style and events was boring cuz it was too easy even for a new five years child player.
Guess why i didnt chose to buy Black desert online rather than HoT.
If you feel “frustrated” or too much effort after work by running in HoT maps, is not a problem, you still have your tyria maps.
To me, i never had any problem since the beginning running in HoT maps, just needed a couple of days to figure out TD. But after all, i played hardcore wvw for like 4 years, so these difficulties you are meeting aren’t anything for me, i still run zerker and kill alone groups of mobs and often run solo in group events.
You see that difficult is subjective? Something that can be too hard for you, may seem too easy for others. Unfortunately, those who see the game as “too hard” are the most lazy ones, cuz they don’t have fun improving. To me, improving is the most fun part of a game, if i have no chance to improve by getting harder challenges for example, i quickly get bored of that game. And as my first sentence, if a game is boring is bad.
I found that HoT pushed me towards more dps focused gear and less survivable gear. Make sure your gears is exotic is my first piece of advice, second I would suggest playing around with builds as things that worked for me in central failed hard in HoT and try out different weapon combos that you can get to work well.
Don’t forget that if you feel your armour is right but you are still a bit off look around to fine tuning it with the right type of runes.
Good luck xD
I found that HoT pushed me towards more dps focused gear and less survivable gear. Make sure your gears is exotic is my first piece of advice, second I would suggest playing around with builds as things that worked for me in central failed hard in HoT and try out different weapon combos that you can get to work well.
Don’t forget that if you feel your armour is right but you are still a bit off look around to fine tuning it with the right type of runes.
Good luck xD
Don’t forget food buffs… I’ve found Pact Rations a cheap and convenient survival buff for my glass toons.
In all honesty posts like this are a sign that the core game should teach mechanis better and should have harder enemies with every 10 or so levels.
So, i had a little time to think on this in the last hours…
I want to make a point here:
Roughly a year ago a good friend of mine bought GW2 and started playing, while i adviced her to start with something easier, she started as a thief.
It went… okay. We mostly played together, i helped out in any way i could.
But she’s just not as adapt to playing this type of game as someone else might be, going as far as to actually have to teach her how WASD controls work and why they are something good in most cases.
Now, core game, as you would expect, was no problem at all, we explored some maps, did some dungeons, guild took her into some fractals. The usual stuff.
Then HoT got released, she wasn’t very interested in it at first but as she heard friends and me talk about it she decided to buy it.
The first few weeks after buying it she felt real frustration because all of a sudden the game was hard as hell (and this was after the HoT nerf).
She didn’t know how to actually play the game as a matter of fact and said herself that the core game hadn’t teached her anything despite my best efforts to try and make up for the flaws.
While she has adapted a little, even started playing alone in the last two weeks, and is more interested in mastering controls as well as her class…the point still stands, and she aknowledges it a lot herself: the core game is way too easy.
There is no real reason to have lots of heal, most enemies die in seconds.
There is no real reason to have teamplay for the same point.
Events seem completely removed from the idea of playing together as AoE’s just fly around while people, worst case, die all the time and just get back to the nearest waypoint.
CC is a concept you rarely have to use in the core game yet in HoT she saw how useful she can be as an aura thief with the elite venom, basically getting champs down to half the breakbar with no effort.
But the core game doesn’t teach you this stuff.
And now i know what will happen, people will come and tell me: But this is a casual game, it shouldn’t be hard.
No.
Casual means it shouldn’t be hard to learn.
And there in lies the problem we have at the moment: You learn nothing from playing core.
I will say that the “Current Events” that happen right now give me some hope that with the new living story there will be some, maybe minor, rework of a few enemies to make teamplay more interesting.
But we need a little higher difficulty. And i’m not saying that this game should kick you between the legs from the starter areas on.
Have it in different forms and ways… add a few more conditions from 20 on, a few more buffs with 30 or actual counter skills on some enemies.
Veterans and Elite should spawn a little earlier in some events (5+ players should be able to do quite a lot) and give them builds that make them feel like they are something special.
AoE-Buff auras, heal, counters, actual blocks and so on.
The difficulty in HoT is not as steep as a lot of you make it out to be.
In my honest opinion HoT is how the game should be at least after Lvl 60.
Players should feel challenged when something big happens and enemies should feel like a threat if Arena Net really wants to push the feeling of being in a group as soon as you join a map.
When i see an ele my first thought shouldn’t be: He’s gonna stay in fire attunement for hours, isn’t he?
My thought should be: Holy kitten yes an elementalist, he’s gonna make this easier with ALL his available skills.
So, i had a little time to think on this in the last hours…
I want to make a point here:
Roughly a year ago a good friend of mine bought GW2 and started playing, while i adviced her to start with something easier, she started as a thief.
It went… okay. We mostly played together, i helped out in any way i could.
But she’s just not as adapt to playing this type of game as someone else might be, going as far as to actually have to teach her how WASD controls work and why they are something good in most cases.Now, core game, as you would expect, was no problem at all, we explored some maps, did some dungeons, guild took her into some fractals. The usual stuff.
Then HoT got released, she wasn’t very interested in it at first but as she heard friends and me talk about it she decided to buy it.
The first few weeks after buying it she felt real frustration because all of a sudden the game was hard as hell (and this was after the HoT nerf).
She didn’t know how to actually play the game as a matter of fact and said herself that the core game hadn’t teached her anything despite my best efforts to try and make up for the flaws.While she has adapted a little, even started playing alone in the last two weeks, and is more interested in mastering controls as well as her class…the point still stands, and she aknowledges it a lot herself: the core game is way too easy.
There is no real reason to have lots of heal, most enemies die in seconds.
There is no real reason to have teamplay for the same point.
Events seem completely removed from the idea of playing together as AoE’s just fly around while people, worst case, die all the time and just get back to the nearest waypoint.
CC is a concept you rarely have to use in the core game yet in HoT she saw how useful she can be as an aura thief with the elite venom, basically getting champs down to half the breakbar with no effort.But the core game doesn’t teach you this stuff.
And now i know what will happen, people will come and tell me: But this is a casual game, it shouldn’t be hard.
No.
Casual means it shouldn’t be hard to learn.
And there in lies the problem we have at the moment: You learn nothing from playing core.I will say that the “Current Events” that happen right now give me some hope that with the new living story there will be some, maybe minor, rework of a few enemies to make teamplay more interesting.
But we need a little higher difficulty. And i’m not saying that this game should kick you between the legs from the starter areas on.
Have it in different forms and ways… add a few more conditions from 20 on, a few more buffs with 30 or actual counter skills on some enemies.
Veterans and Elite should spawn a little earlier in some events (5+ players should be able to do quite a lot) and give them builds that make them feel like they are something special.
AoE-Buff auras, heal, counters, actual blocks and so on.The difficulty in HoT is not as steep as a lot of you make it out to be.
In my honest opinion HoT is how the game should be at least after Lvl 60.Players should feel challenged when something big happens and enemies should feel like a threat if Arena Net really wants to push the feeling of being in a group as soon as you join a map.
When i see an ele my first thought shouldn’t be: He’s gonna stay in fire attunement for hours, isn’t he?
My thought should be: Holy kitten yes an elementalist, he’s gonna make this easier with ALL his available skills.
I understand your point, which many other people have made, that core GW2 should prepare all types of players for HoT content. However, I do see an issue: Why change the core game so drastically after the fact, when other players may not even have the intention of buying HoT? Of course, I’m not saying that HoT should be nerfed. There really does need to be something that prepares the player for the rise in difficulty. Heck, even Dry Top and Silverwastes don’t feel like a decent transition. For me, Maguuma Wastes felt like a huge jump in difficulty from Orr, given the confusing terrain, and then Heart of Maguuma was an even bigger jump in confusion from Wastes. But there wasn’t anything in between Core and Wastes and Wastes and Heart. If that makes sense… Even dungeons don’t act as the right type of preparation/training.
I understand your point, which many other people have made, that core GW2 should prepare all types of players for HoT content. However, I do see an issue: Why change the core game so drastically after the fact, when other players may not even have the intention of buying HoT? Of course, I’m not saying that HoT should be nerfed. There really does need to be something that prepares the player for the rise in difficulty. Heck, even Dry Top and Silverwastes don’t feel like a decent transition. For me, Maguuma Wastes felt like a huge jump in difficulty from Orr, given the confusing terrain, and then Heart of Maguuma was an even bigger jump in confusion from Wastes. But there wasn’t anything in between Core and Wastes and Wastes and Heart. If that makes sense… Even dungeons don’t act as the right type of preparation/training.
Thing is… Orr isn’t hard. It never was.
And that people act as if it is, that people even say (and i’ve seen this a lot, especially after HoT got released) that the game, even the core game, instead should get easier because it’s not casual friendly enough, just saddens me.
I’m in the minority here though, i realize that.
I’m in that weird spot where i actually like balanced build, to support others, to choose a dedicated role (as far as it is possible in GW) and so on.
I don’t mind giving up some damage to be more useful to others around me, because i still can manage to get around, yes, even in HoT.
All in all a better curved difficulty, actually teaching people in the coregame what to expect later (through dungeons, through open world and so on) would not only foster the community into a way better place but also help their sales and help keep players around.
And here’s the kicker: Sure, people may not be interested in HoT… but what about the next expansion? Or the one after… hell, what if they have to make a Guild Wars 3?
So, i had a little time to think on this in the last hours…
I want to make a point here:
Roughly a year ago a good friend of mine bought GW2 and started playing, while i adviced her to start with something easier, she started as a thief.
It went… okay. We mostly played together, i helped out in any way i could.
But she’s just not as adapt to playing this type of game as someone else might be, going as far as to actually have to teach her how WASD controls work and why they are something good in most cases.Now, core game, as you would expect, was no problem at all, we explored some maps, did some dungeons, guild took her into some fractals. The usual stuff.
Then HoT got released, she wasn’t very interested in it at first but as she heard friends and me talk about it she decided to buy it.
The first few weeks after buying it she felt real frustration because all of a sudden the game was hard as hell (and this was after the HoT nerf).
She didn’t know how to actually play the game as a matter of fact and said herself that the core game hadn’t teached her anything despite my best efforts to try and make up for the flaws.While she has adapted a little, even started playing alone in the last two weeks, and is more interested in mastering controls as well as her class…the point still stands, and she aknowledges it a lot herself: the core game is way too easy.
There is no real reason to have lots of heal, most enemies die in seconds.
There is no real reason to have teamplay for the same point.
Events seem completely removed from the idea of playing together as AoE’s just fly around while people, worst case, die all the time and just get back to the nearest waypoint.
CC is a concept you rarely have to use in the core game yet in HoT she saw how useful she can be as an aura thief with the elite venom, basically getting champs down to half the breakbar with no effort.But the core game doesn’t teach you this stuff.
And now i know what will happen, people will come and tell me: But this is a casual game, it shouldn’t be hard.
No.
Casual means it shouldn’t be hard to learn.
And there in lies the problem we have at the moment: You learn nothing from playing core.I will say that the “Current Events” that happen right now give me some hope that with the new living story there will be some, maybe minor, rework of a few enemies to make teamplay more interesting.
But we need a little higher difficulty. And i’m not saying that this game should kick you between the legs from the starter areas on.
Have it in different forms and ways… add a few more conditions from 20 on, a few more buffs with 30 or actual counter skills on some enemies.
Veterans and Elite should spawn a little earlier in some events (5+ players should be able to do quite a lot) and give them builds that make them feel like they are something special.
AoE-Buff auras, heal, counters, actual blocks and so on.The difficulty in HoT is not as steep as a lot of you make it out to be.
In my honest opinion HoT is how the game should be at least after Lvl 60.Players should feel challenged when something big happens and enemies should feel like a threat if Arena Net really wants to push the feeling of being in a group as soon as you join a map.
When i see an ele my first thought shouldn’t be: He’s gonna stay in fire attunement for hours, isn’t he?
My thought should be: Holy kitten yes an elementalist, he’s gonna make this easier with ALL his available skills.
This is a fantastic point. From a big-picture perspective, it may be too difficult to incorporate the entire learning-curve into the maps of the next expansion. However, perhaps the living world could slowly add more maps that up the learning curve like you suggested. I think that would be the best approach.
I understand your point, which many other people have made, that core GW2 should prepare all types of players for HoT content. However, I do see an issue: Why change the core game so drastically after the fact, when other players may not even have the intention of buying HoT? Of course, I’m not saying that HoT should be nerfed. There really does need to be something that prepares the player for the rise in difficulty. Heck, even Dry Top and Silverwastes don’t feel like a decent transition. For me, Maguuma Wastes felt like a huge jump in difficulty from Orr, given the confusing terrain, and then Heart of Maguuma was an even bigger jump in confusion from Wastes. But there wasn’t anything in between Core and Wastes and Wastes and Heart. If that makes sense… Even dungeons don’t act as the right type of preparation/training.
Thing is… Orr isn’t hard. It never was.
And that people act as if it is, that people even say (and i’ve seen this a lot, especially after HoT got released) that the game, even the core game, instead should get easier because it’s not casual friendly enough, just saddens me.I’m in the minority here though, i realize that.
I’m in that weird spot where i actually like balanced build, to support others, to choose a dedicated role (as far as it is possible in GW) and so on.
I don’t mind giving up some damage to be more useful to others around me, because i still can manage to get around, yes, even in HoT.All in all a better curved difficulty, actually teaching people in the coregame what to expect later (through dungeons, through open world and so on) would not only foster the community into a way better place but also help their sales and help keep players around.
And here’s the kicker: Sure, people may not be interested in HoT… but what about the next expansion? Or the one after… hell, what if they have to make a Guild Wars 3?
That’s my point, Orr isn’t hard after they nerfed it (getting some WPs or HPs or Vistas can be annoying, though), and then you have the LS and HoT maps which don’t reflect a balanced jump in difficulty between maps. I think everyone here can agree that core Tyria, even Orr, does not train players to succeed (or at least survive) in HoT. But how can ANet fix that without upping the difficulty of the entire game? Many different players enjoy GW2, both the casuals and the hard-cores.
That’s my point, Orr isn’t hard after they nerfed it (getting some WPs or HPs or Vistas can be annoying, though), and then you have the LS and HoT maps which don’t reflect a balanced jump in difficulty between maps. I think everyone here can agree that core Tyria, even Orr, does not train players to succeed (or at least survive) in HoT. But how can ANet fix that without upping the difficulty of the entire game? Many different players enjoy GW2, both the casuals and the hard-cores.
As i said, do it so that the game flows more naturally.
For example. You start with no conditions that enemies dish out in the starter areas.
With Lvl 15-20 they should at least deal some. A little bleed here, a little poison there.
Lvl 25-30 should add a few buffs, enemies that gain might or protection. Maybe even some enemies that have a functioniging block-stance (looking at the centaurs here that block one attack after a 3 second animation of a raised shield).
Lvl 35-40? Add some heal, here and there, some enemies that heal a little in an area, some that heal themselves (raptors are a great example, one of the few enemies that have heal and cc).
50 onward: CC, sure it should be there before too, but make it noticeable that Lvl 50 is slowly turning the game around.
60 onward: All of the above at once. At least in events: You are in dangerous territory, the pact has formed, the different orders are noticeable in every area of this Lvl. Make this count, bind it into the lore.
Of course, Veterans should be better, they should feel special as i said.
Bandit Veterans for example could have Venomous Aura and a venom that works with their intended role (Saboteurs? Give them Ice Drake Venom to make getting away harder, the tanky ones with a shield and mace? Skelk Venom. And so on)
A lot of enemies, in my opinion, should do what is expected of players, or even more (holy trinity, as much as many may hate it, would work wonders if the enemies outside of HoT had it.)
And HoT makes a great showcase of this.
The best example though is Winds of Change from GW1, now i know, this can’t be done with copy paste but in Winds of Change, even in War of Kryta, the enemies used player builds and it made them challenging.
I think quite a few of you are ignoring the core GW audience…
In my honest opinion HoT is how the game should be at least after Lvl 60.
HoT is basically how the game was at level 1 back during the original beta, except enemies had more health and their special attacks would simply 1 shot you.
The problem with the core game is downscaling. When you’re downscaled, you deal more damage and take less. When you’re underleveled however, you deal less damage and take more. If you want the game to be more challenging, only play while underleveled. I for example always play at +5-10 levels while also undergeared, and much like HoT, you can be 1 shot by the stronger enemies. When it comes to normal play however, nothing’s stopping the player from only playing while downscaled or leveling solely through the easier zones, like 1-80 in Queensdale, thus the problem continues regardless of the difficulty. At 80, season 1 was the in-between difficulty, but that’s mostly gone now, and people have been complaining about the difficulty increase all along, from karka to aetherblade. In the end, if the game is too difficult, the more casual audience will simply move on at the first sign of frustration as they’re only playing for fun. ArenaNet has always been a niche however, so only time will tell if they end up nerfing everything like other MMOs or continuing on that path.
I think quite a few of you are ignoring the core GW audience…
Please, elaborate.
Am i not part of this core after playing since GW1 and getting GW2 as well as HoT on day one, even participating in the betas of all 3?
-snip-
But we did have this learning curve! It’s called Living Story Season 1! It introduced all sorts of things – tougher, more dynamic enemies in the Molten and Toxic alliances, the Karka invasion and Southsun Cove, The Aetherblades. All sorts of bosses (Crown Pavillion, Marrionette, etc.)
And then they got rid of almost all of it (Still have remnants of S1 around, though, like the Toxic Spores in Kryta). So now there’s a difficulty spike between the Core Tyria and LS2 zones… and I don’t find Dry Top and Silverwastes to be much easier than HoT maps.
-snip-
But we did have this learning curve! It’s called Living Story Season 1! It introduced all sorts of things – tougher, more dynamic enemies in the Molten and Toxic alliances, the Karka invasion and Southsun Cove, The Aetherblades. All sorts of bosses (Crown Pavillion, Marrionette, etc.)
And then they got rid of almost all of it (Still have remnants of S1 around, though, like the Toxic Spores in Kryta). So now there’s a difficulty spike between the Core Tyria and LS2 zones… and I don’t find Dry Top and Silverwastes to be much easier than HoT maps.
My entire point is, if anything, that this should return but spread out to the whole world.
Introduce different mechanics, at least more focused, to differently leveled areas.
My best example would be how Harathi Hinterlands feel at the moment.
Do the centaurs feel like a threat to anyone?
They do have everything they need to be a menacing army but.. they do nothing special.
They don’t have more skills than the oposing Seraph-NPC’s, they don’t have more HP or toughness.
The centaurs, as enemies, are weak, yet we are supposed to see them as some sort of hindrance.
Some of it is the abyssmal enemy scaling in Events in core tyria, some of it though is the fact that there is no real monster-balance.
The Krait, in fact, are, with some of the remnants of LS1, the best designed enemies core tyria has at the moment. And even that i have to take with a grain of salt, because events with them quite often showcase how Little teamplay there is in the EU community in the open world.
And that goes back to my original point: It’s not needed at the moment.
Which goes against anything Arena Net has said over the years.
Especially when they announced with HoT: We will end the zerker-PvE meta.
Yeah, didn’t happen, did it?
No, if they introduce new mechanics to teach people how to play, in core, through LS3 or some other method.. the core player will just complain and the meta player will zerg and stack. So you’ll just annoy the core player.
“I had to learn to dodge in HoT” – I learned to dodge in core. If you didn’t, you learn to dodge in HoT. We’re not talking learning to fly a spaceship here or anything, just a few situational keypresses.
Is core too easy? For me, sure. For others HoT is too hard. Swings and roundabouts, we can co-exist without ruining each others game.
Who exactly is this core player that keeps being mentioned?
Who exactly is this core player that keeps being mentioned?
The core demographic of the game is the one you keep denying the existence of, m8.
Who exactly is this core player that keeps being mentioned?
The core demographic of the game is the one you keep denying the existence of, m8.
Ah, so the people that only play zerker, go to HoT, die, and cry on the forums because the difficulty is too high.
Not like everything i’m suggesting here actually would help them as well.
But yeah, i’m denying their existence.
Is there any advise people can give for dealing with the new maps?
My best advice is watch you surrounding and watch the mobs. The biggest difference between HoT and Core Tyria is that you cannot facetank every enemy or run into zergs of enemies. So don’t run in big groups of enemies and don’t pull every enemy in sight.
HoT open world was already nerfed and is quite easy it just isn’t faceroll on the keyboard easy as core Tyria.
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