Guild Wars 2

By using the newsletter subscription as a method of choosing beta participants, the potential of sending invitations to people who aren’t even interested in actually testing the beta version instead of those who are eager to provide feedback is pretty big.

Beta testing sign up should be its own thing. Just because someone is an “active player and a loyal customer”, it doesn’t mean he will be (or even wants to be!) a good tester. The way you’re doing it seems like you’re not looking for feedback at all, just offering a “premium preview program”.

I’m not writing this just because I’m afraid me and other people who are eager to help you actually test the new features may be left out; I’m genuinely concerned about the quality of the feedback you will get in return. What happened with the method you used for EOTM? Why did you feel the need to choose beta-testers from a pool of players who may not even be interested in participating of a beta program?

indeed, should be from a much smaller pool of people, dis way my chance of going in is better.

No one know how the selection will be made, all we know so far is that you need to be in the newsletter to be able to be picked, the rest of the filters only ANet know so far.
You guys are jumping into conclusions way too fast.

They will probably just use the same RNG from the game to pick them. Since that gave me one pre-cursor since launch….I’d bet my chances are pretty slim.

Yulan.4069:

What happened with the method you used for EOTM?

Well, seeing how the WvW forums talk about EotM it does seem rather clear that the system used for that testing was a rather massive failure.

Necrotic.7820:

They will probably just use the same RNG from the game to pick them. Since that gave me one pre-cursor since launch….I’d bet my chances are pretty slim.

Quite unlikely, seeing as they outright stated in the blog post that they want active and loyal players. Which would suggest that people playing actively (and for a long time) will have a higher chance.

I will have to agree with Belzebu. All we know is that you have to be registered to the newsletter. Everything else that goes into deciding beta testers is a complete mystery.

If you plan on jumping to conclusions though I have a mat to sell you.

Yulan.4069:

By using the newsletter subscription as a method of choosing beta participants, the potential of sending invitations to people who aren’t even interested in actually testing the beta version instead of those who are eager to provide feedback is pretty big.

Beta testing sign up should be its own thing. Just because someone is an “active player and a loyal customer”, it doesn’t mean he will be (or even wants to be!) a good tester. The way you’re doing it seems like you’re not looking for feedback at all, just offering a “premium preview program”.

I’m not writing this just because I’m afraid me and other people who are eager to help you actually test the new features may be left out; I’m genuinely concerned about the quality of the feedback you will get in return. What happened with the method you used for EOTM? Why did you feel the need to choose beta-testers from a pool of players who may not even be interested in participating of a beta program?

Dude/Lady
Beta testing has never been about testing products. It’s a known fact that Anet uses in house testers, not outside testers. This is how they been able to keep a lid of things so much.

The beta testing is just for marketing. That’s why they set it up like this.

Most of the stuff will have already been tested by In-house testers long before public touches it. Some bugs slip through the cracks, but that’s to be expected.

Don’t expect any major game design flaws to be changed from feedback in the public beta.

I am surprised people don’t know how this work by now…

Knighthonor.4061:

Dude/Lady
Beta testing has never been about testing products. It’s a known fact that Anet uses in house testers, not outside testers. This is how they been able to keep a lid of things so much.

The beta testing is just for marketing. That’s why they set it up like this.

Most of the stuff will have already been tested by In-house testers long before public touches it. Some bugs slip through the cracks, but that’s to be expected.

Don’t expect any major game design flaws to be changed from feedback in the public beta.

I am surprised people don’t know how this work by now…

To be fair ArenaNet is actually quite good when it comes to actual betas. There were rather many things changed in EotM for example due to feedback from the beta-testers.

There was also quite a bit of stuff changed/added to the initial released based on beta-testing.

While the more open beta tests are indeed more of a marketing events, the closed betas (especially the early ones) are actual betas.

Why else do you think we don’t have a release date yet?

lordkrall.7241:

Knighthonor.4061:

Dude/Lady
Beta testing has never been about testing products. It’s a known fact that Anet uses in house testers, not outside testers. This is how they been able to keep a lid of things so much.

The beta testing is just for marketing. That’s why they set it up like this.

Most of the stuff will have already been tested by In-house testers long before public touches it. Some bugs slip through the cracks, but that’s to be expected.

Don’t expect any major game design flaws to be changed from feedback in the public beta.

I am surprised people don’t know how this work by now…

To be fair ArenaNet is actually quite good when it comes to actual betas. There were rather many things changed in EotM for example due to feedback from the beta-testers.

There was also quite a bit of stuff changed/added to the initial released based on beta-testing.

While the more open beta tests are indeed more of a marketing events, the closed betas (especially the early ones) are actual betas.

Why else do you think we don’t have a release date yet?

Most of their improvements come from inhouse testers. Get over it. Public beta is marketing. In house is the main beta now days.

Public beta is just a demo. Anet will do public beta when the in house say the game is good enough.

Knighthonor.4061:

Most of their improvements come from inhouse testers. Get over it. Public beta is marketing. In house is the main beta now days.

Public beta is just a demo. Anet will do public beta when the in house say the game is good enough.

So, why did they change stuff that was basically exactly what the testers requested, after a test when they gave that feedback?
If they only came form inhouse testers, why didn’t the change come until after the player-testers had given that feedback?

lordkrall.7241:

Knighthonor.4061:

Most of their improvements come from inhouse testers. Get over it. Public beta is marketing. In house is the main beta now days.

Public beta is just a demo. Anet will do public beta when the in house say the game is good enough.

So, why did they change stuff that was basically exactly what the testers requested, after a test when they gave that feedback?
If they only came form inhouse testers, why didn’t the change come until after the player-testers had given that feedback?

And you know that the in house didn’t also request those same changes?
Do you know how long in takes to make changes to the programming?

Anet, works off of builds. The build the public play, is not the same build that the developers work on…. So there is a known delay between public feedback, and the builds the developers are changing…

Yes, and it took quite some time between it was first requested and it was actually implemented.

But this is going nowhere, you have already decided that the beta tests being done won’t change or effect anything at all and are thus completely pointless, so no point continuing to discuss this.

Ok to all who are jumping to conclusions. If you read the announcement regarding the closed beta testing you do not have to sign an NDA, so you can freely talk about your experience. Granted this is different from beta testing EOTM, that me and my guildies signed and filled out a form/questionare. For those that get the invite I will be the first to say GRATS and have fun and I look forward to the posts regarding your input.

Yulan.4069:

…I’m genuinely concerned about the quality of the feedback you will get in return.

I’m dead keen on getting an invite myself so don’t care for all the competition from people who might not care so much but there are two reasons you’re wrong.

1) Anyone who cares enough to sign up for the newsletter is probably also keen enough to also sign up for beta. Game developers like ANet would know this from experience. By combining them like they have, what they’ve done is streamlined the process.

2) Game developers can go horribly, horribly wrong with being too selective with beta invitations. If they don’t cast a wide enough net – and that includes less interested / keen / fanatic players – then the feedback they receive can be unrepresentative of their potential customer base.

That’s the main reason Funcom went bust with The Secret World. They spent roughly $80 million making a brand new MMO but most of their testers were Age of Conan players. They’re a very niche crowd. Accordingly TSW’s combat ended up being tailored to their very niche tastes. It wasn’t until the later stages of beta when they broadened the testing pool that they started getting lots of negative feedback. But by then it was too late.

So it’s in ArenaNet’s best interests not to just have fanatic GW2 fans in the beta testing pool. They need all sorts.

The blog states the following:

We’ll draw our initial pool of testers from among active players and loyal customers who are also subscribed to the Guild Wars 2 newsletter.

This clearly says to me they will pick (initially) from people who have played pretty consistantly and those who have invested a lot of time and/or money into the game, but they will also need to subscribed to the newsletter to register their interest in testing. So to start with it will be regular players and spenders in the game. Then, I am sure they will expand out to a wider audience once they have stress tested a few bits and got some feedback.

This seems a sensible course of action to me.

Grumpy.6027:

Ok to all who are jumping to conclusions. If you read the announcement regarding the closed beta testing you do not have to sign an NDA, so you can freely talk about your experience. Granted this is different from beta testing EOTM, that me and my guildies signed and filled out a form/questionare.

That’s just one more reason to believe that these two betas have very different purposes.

Caeledh.5437:

1) Anyone who cares enough to sign up for the newsletter is probably also keen enough to also sign up for beta. Game developers like ANet would know this from experience. By combining them like they have, what they’ve done is streamlined the process.

That’s… not true at all. I know a lot of people who are not willing/don’t have interest in testing the beta, but obviously signed for the newsletter because they want to receive news in first hand – as the majority of the active playerbase. These are two very different crowds; one wants to actively help ANET improve their system and content, the other only wants to experience the expansion before anyone else, probably not even getting in contact with ANET during the whole process.

Rin.1046:

This clearly says to me they will pick (initially) from people who have played pretty consistantly and those who have invested a lot of time and/or money into the game

Yeah, but nothing suggests that these players are interested in providing ANET reports and actual feedback on the content they’re playing. I’m not complaining about the lack of a methodology, I’m just saying the one used isn’t ideal.

My disappointment comes from the fact that they put a huge emphasys on “the beta will provide a fundamental feedback for us” and “the expansion will be ready when the players tell it’s ready”; then they end up doing a lottery sign up for “loyal customers”. I’m genuinely concerned about the quality of feedback they’re going to receive from that.

lordkrall.7241:

To be fair ArenaNet is actually quite good when it comes to actual betas. There were rather many things changed in EotM for example due to feedback from the beta-testers.

There was also quite a bit of stuff changed/added to the initial released based on beta-testing.

While the more open beta tests are indeed more of a marketing events, the closed betas (especially the early ones) are actual betas.

Why else do you think we don’t have a release date yet?

The beta feedback prior to initial release had a lot of impact on the game; you could see it from one build to the next – the devs were listening to the testers and were changing things that didn’t work. It was, in fact, a very satisfying time to be a beta tester and one of the few times I’ve been in a beta where I really felt like my input meant something. (and I’ve been in several beta tests)

The person claiming that beta is just a marketing gimmick is right for many games, but like the person above says, GW2 was different and our input actually got things done.

Honestly I don’t want to be part of the beta. I want my first experience with HoT to not be a frustrating bug ridden mess.

“loyal customer” = spent money in the Gem Store

Johje Holan.4607:

“loyal customer” = spent money in the Gem Store

Or people that have actively played for a very long time.

Loyalty != money spent.

I would’ve rather payed for HoT early to beta test it, like we did for the GW2 beta.

Loyalty comes in many ways. Fun also comes in many forms.

If the people who are going to be playing Heart of Thorns enjoy silly gizmos and “cool looking” armors, or if they enjoy hard work and the frustrations of grinding, how does that affect you? Is one a more “pure” experience than the other? Is showing your loyalty with monetary support better or worse than showing it with time spent playing? And which of these contributes more to a quality end product?

The truth is, one type of gamer supports the other, and vice versa. The company gets valuable gameplay-related ideas, and a budget big enough to implement them. So I don’t care if some of the pool of testers prioritizes long-term players or gem-buyers, I want both in the krewe, because they both help the game get better in the end.

Argon.1563:

I would’ve rather payed for HoT early to beta test it, like we did for the GW2 beta.

Both happened, actually. Prepurchasing let players into the later Open Beta events, but much earlier events were closed to a limited number of random-picked newsletter subscribers, the exact same way.

Anyone who’s account has been playing since the 3 day headstart deserves immediate access to the beta tbh.

New accounts shouldn’t be allowed access to HoT at all because these players do not understand the game well enough to give feedback as to what does and doesn’t work (Sorry new guys, it’s true).

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Anyone who’s account has been playing since the 3 day headstart deserves immediate access to the beta tbh.

New accounts shouldn’t be allowed access to HoT at all because these players do not understand the game well enough to give feedback as to what does and doesn’t work (Sorry new guys, it’s true).

So, player X that started on 3-day head start but took a break for two years and just got back should be guaranteed access, while player Y that started 3 months ago but have been playing daily since should not be allowed in at all?

lordkrall.7241:

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Anyone who’s account has been playing since the 3 day headstart deserves immediate access to the beta tbh.

New accounts shouldn’t be allowed access to HoT at all because these players do not understand the game well enough to give feedback as to what does and doesn’t work (Sorry new guys, it’s true).

So, player X that started on 3-day head start but took a break for two years and just got back should be guaranteed access, while player Y that started 3 months ago but have been playing daily since should not be allowed in at all?

playing SINCE 3 day headstart, not “joined at headstart then quit”

But should they be required to have played daily since then? Or what would be the cut-off point?

Also keep in mind that only inviting veteran players would be very stupid, seeing as new players bring new experiences and such to the board. They also aren’t tainted by the whole “it was much better before” things that is seen quite often here on these forums from veteran players. New players as well as old veterans are needed to get a balanced and good test.

A problem with using new players though is also the fact that they may not be experienced enough with the game, thus content that is not actually challenging will be seen as such because they’re not aware how certain mechanics within the game actually work.

I guess either way it’s a lose/lose situation, there’s always going to be someone that provides negative feedback where it’s not necessary.

And yet someone that have played since headstart and yet only ever played WvW or sPvP would be exactly the same. Time played != knowledge about the game as a whole.

There’s no golden standard for the ultimate group of ultimate feedbacks necessary.

You can’t say that one type of feedback is better than the other or that someone who played less or plays in a “a bad way”cannot have access because for some magical reason you cannot have an opinion on something because you’re not good enough. That’s just dumb.

In the end, tt’s all a matter of what ArenaNet does with the feedback. They will know what kind of players are giving what kind of feedback. (If they do it right) which in turn makes it logical that someone who hasn’t played the game for ages and claims it’s “Too hard, this needs to be easier” will be treated differently as someone who is more knowledgable about the game. (Though no invalidated)

Next thing you know you guys are saying that only people with x Achievement points should give feedback. My god.

I have a sneaking suspicion there will be a pre order which gives you access to the closed beta which people will pay for and those people will beta test. I can’t imagine there won’t be enough people willing to pay for early access so I wouldn’t worry about not being randomly selected. I’m sure there will be addition of various prices where you can have a mini something and an exclusive glider skin… Oh and a title!

I personally feel there is nothing wrong with this. Get some early return on investment while testing system. nothing wrong with this system. I don’t like when you pay to beta and don’t get access when the release drops… I don’t know why people go for that. Everyone has their reasons I suppose.

A OK.8276:

I have a sneaking suspicion there will be a pre order which gives you access to the closed beta which people will pay for and those people will beta test. I can’t imagine there won’t be enough people willing to pay for early access so I wouldn’t worry about not being randomly selected. I’m sure there will be addition of various prices where you can have a mini something and an exclusive glider skin… Oh and a title!

I personally feel there is nothing wrong with this. Get some early return on investment while testing system. nothing wrong with this system. I don’t like when you pay to beta and don’t get access when the release drops… I don’t know why people go for that. Everyone has their reasons I suppose.

To be fair early access and closed beta isn’t the same thing.
It is very possible that pre-orders will get access to potential beta event weekend as with the original release, but even then they did have closed betas that were not accessed by pre-ordering.

ArenaNet does real closed betas, not marketing event “closed betas”.

lordkrall.7241:

A OK.8276:

I have a sneaking suspicion there will be a pre order which gives you access to the closed beta which people will pay for and those people will beta test. I can’t imagine there won’t be enough people willing to pay for early access so I wouldn’t worry about not being randomly selected. I’m sure there will be addition of various prices where you can have a mini something and an exclusive glider skin… Oh and a title!

I personally feel there is nothing wrong with this. Get some early return on investment while testing system. nothing wrong with this system. I don’t like when you pay to beta and don’t get access when the release drops… I don’t know why people go for that. Everyone has their reasons I suppose.

To be fair early access and closed beta isn’t the same thing.
It is very possible that pre-orders will get access to potential beta event weekend as with the original release, but even then they did have closed betas that were not accessed by pre-ordering.

ArenaNet does real closed betas, not marketing event “closed betas”.

Fair enough. I have been wrong before.

Yulan.4069:

Caeledh.5437:

1) Anyone who cares enough to sign up for the newsletter is probably also keen enough to also sign up for beta. Game developers like ANet would know this from experience. By combining them like they have, what they’ve done is streamlined the process.

That’s… not true at all. I know a lot of people who are not willing/don’t have interest in testing the beta, but obviously signed for the newsletter because they want to receive news in first hand – as the majority of the active playerbase. These are two very different crowds; one wants to actively help ANET improve their system and content, the other only wants to experience the expansion before anyone else, probably not even getting in contact with ANET during the whole process.

If you believe that everyone who signs up for beta does so because they want to help the developer, then you’re in la la land.

Many see it as an opportunity for early access. Many see it as a free trial. Many will never log even a single bug report. Anyone keen enough to sign up for the newsletter is probably keen enough to want at least that and would also sign up for the beta.

It’s not even a bad thing. I’m meticulous about bug reporting but even players who don’t actually do provide valuable feedback just from the way they play the game. It’s very easy for developers to collect statistics on literally everything players do and those can be interpreted to see what’s working and what isn’t.

Those statistics are most valuable when the group of players is diverse and representative of your target customer base, i.e. not just GW2 fanatics.

I tried joining the newsletter thing a couple months back and they had problems – I didn’t receive any email or anything. I don’t think it’s fully fixed still, but I tried of late and got 1 email, but no confirmation on actually joining the newsletter, so I don’t even know if I’m in the draw – not that I’d be chosen anyway cause stuff like that never happens to me… but you have to be in it to win it I guess – it’s just, I don’t even know if I’m in it, lol.

Yulan.4069:

By using the newsletter subscription as a method of choosing beta participants, the potential of sending invitations to people who aren’t even interested in actually testing the beta version instead of those who are eager to provide feedback is pretty big.

Beta testing sign up should be its own thing. Just because someone is an “active player and a loyal customer”, it doesn’t mean he will be (or even wants to be!) a good tester. The way you’re doing it seems like you’re not looking for feedback at all, just offering a “premium preview program”.

I’m not writing this just because I’m afraid me and other people who are eager to help you actually test the new features may be left out; I’m genuinely concerned about the quality of the feedback you will get in return. What happened with the method you used for EOTM? Why did you feel the need to choose beta-testers from a pool of players who may not even be interested in participating of a beta program?

This isn’t FOR feedback. It’s testing the actual stability. Yes players week experience the content that’s finished, but they aren’t providing feed back. It’s a technical beta.