Guild Wars 2

Can we please have nothing to do with Destiny Edge 2.0 when this expansion hits? They would serve much better as small packs of friends finding their own journey through Maguuma that we sometimes meet in-between our adventures, granted you might find the team enjoyable if you have a taste for bad dialect and story telling but most of us don’t like them.

It’s honestly a joke that to progress through the game, I have to do it with a cast of members I don’t like. Braham and Rox are stale, Kasmeer and Marjory are just shoehorned lesbians that constantly flaunt the fact that they are together in our face, tied together with the worst voice acting I have ever heard and Taimi though being really cool isn’t all that unique and special, just another disgruntled Asura. And as a character doing my story with them I can’t help but feel like a watcher of their drama with absolutely no inclusion in what they are doing.

Please don’t make them essential to the story in HoTS…

While I may or may not completely agree with some of what you’ve said, you completely lost me at what “most of us” feel.

If you have an opinion try talking for yourself, because once you start inventing statistics it brings into question everything else you’re saying.

I don’t really think most people think this way. I definitely think some people do.

trust me, you will probably see Wolverine return transgendered before you will see this happen. Politicizing art is the megatrend now. All art is political, but art that tries to be mainly political is usually subpar. Best to just don´t bother anymore.

I like them, but it’s maybe becuse i learned to know them during LW s1.
It’s sad that new player just get to s2 and 5 character randomly appears in your team.
The recap of season 1 don’t help enough to getclose with these caracters. We’ll really need the return of season 1 to have a good continuity in the story.

And about what you want, you’ll be disappointed cause for what we saw with beta the story is still with them.

I didn’t have a problem with Destiny’s Edge.

Traherne on the other hand… I want to kill him. And I won’t speak for everyone, but I know the majority of us want the same thing.

Agreed, OP.
Pretty much the only interesting thing they gave us is their gear. Lol

That said, I also don’t care much for DE1.0 either.
I’m thrust into the game and immediately introduced to this ragtag band of ‘heroes’.
I don’t know who these people are, and I’m expected to have read the books (which I didn’t even know existed) to know why they’re important?

GW’s storyline, to me, really doesn’t even exist past the first game.
I can’t get emotionally invested like I used to be able to with this new cast / plot.

Algreg.3629:

trust me, you will probably see Wolverine return transgendered before you will see this happen. Politicizing art is the megatrend now. All art is political, but art that tries to be mainly political is usually subpar. Best to just don´t bother anymore.

One’s sexual orientation or relationship isn’t political.

OT though, I agree with Vayne. Are there potentially better storylines and characters to be playing the game with? Probably. Regardless, it is unfair to group “most of us” in that category. I’m personally not bothered by it much, though I wish Season 1 was still around because I joined after that and my emotional connection to DEv2.0 is a bit lacking. In that respect, you may have a point.

I, too, dislike de2.O compared to the original.

I’m also in a similar mind set as Vayne.

I don’t dislike DE2. Yes, alternate story options exist, but I’m not the one writing the plot. To me, they aren’t any better or worse than Rurik, Togo, or Kormir from the first game. Trahearne and DE1 slot into that general role as well.

I’m starting to dislike DE 2.0 more and more, for several reasons.
1. they are complete morons from time to time. My easiest case Taimi, the amount of (potential) trouble she willingly creates is unbelievable.
2.Sometimes they don’t fit the situation. Honestly in the final episode what was rox’s function? She was a torch carrier -_-.
3. They literally have to write the world around them. Hey what a coincidence that marjory’s sister is at the entrance of dry top and what a bigger coincidence that she is going to fort salma. Oh no marjory’s sisters ghost is on the loose, oh there comes marjory just in time to get her sword upgraded by said sister. Oh no kasmeer pricked her self, now she gets magical anti liar powers. Oh no the waypoints are being attacked luckely the 14 year old who hasn’t finished shool is the only asura in the whole world with a solution.
…

I’ve taken to interpreting forum post catch phrases like “most of us” as either “I” or “most of us who agree with me.” That said, using such phrases usually marks a post in a negative way and almost always generates some push back, ultimately detracting from the message.

As to DE 2, I don’t really like them, either. Surly guy’s with Mommy issues, non-entities, and the annoying little Asura that could are hardly novel or interesting character concepts. That said, I understand the need for exposition via NPC in this genre, and having them expose the plot points is preferable to reading a wall of text to accomplish the same thing.

One thing I do object to is being their “boss.” I’d much rather the head of my order assigned me to work with them. I’m certainly not working with them by choice and I certainly did not accept responsibility for them. Also, they are not my friends. I understand that to move the story forward consistently for everyone, choices as to actions taken have to be virtually eliminated, but removing my choice as to who my friends are and presenting me with a fait accompli I find distasteful.

So is it really that the characters are bad, or just badly written. We seem to hitting a point where people who want good story and people who can’t handle, or care for a good story are complaining about the same thing at different ends of the spectrum.

But I guess that comes with the territory when you write for character depth when the villain is both a primal force, and poorly understood. No real contrast to make it easy.

Hanako.1827:

Can we please have nothing to do with Destiny Edge 2.0 when this expansion hits? They would serve much better as small packs of friends finding their own journey through Maguuma that we sometimes meet in-between our adventures, granted you might find the team enjoyable if you have a taste for bad dialect and story telling but most of us don’t like them.

It’s honestly a joke that to progress through the game, I have to do it with a cast of members I don’t like. Braham and Rox are stale, Kasmeer and Marjory are just shoehorned lesbians that constantly flaunt the fact that they are together in our face, tied together with the worst voice acting I have ever heard and Taimi though being really cool isn’t all that unique and special, just another disgruntled Asura. And as a character doing my story with them I can’t help but feel like a watcher of their drama with absolutely no inclusion in what they are doing.

Please don’t make them essential to the story in HoTS…

keep in mind the story ISN’T ABOUT YOU

tis about THEM.

YOUR the add on whose replacable (by every other player character in the game)

this is Destiny’s Edge 2.0’s story, that you just happen to be following

I love the b-iconics! Jory 4evah \o/

arenta.2953:

Hanako.1827:

Can we please have nothing to do with Destiny Edge 2.0 when this expansion hits? They would serve much better as small packs of friends finding their own journey through Maguuma that we sometimes meet in-between our adventures, granted you might find the team enjoyable if you have a taste for bad dialect and story telling but most of us don’t like them.

It’s honestly a joke that to progress through the game, I have to do it with a cast of members I don’t like. Braham and Rox are stale, Kasmeer and Marjory are just shoehorned lesbians that constantly flaunt the fact that they are together in our face, tied together with the worst voice acting I have ever heard and Taimi though being really cool isn’t all that unique and special, just another disgruntled Asura. And as a character doing my story with them I can’t help but feel like a watcher of their drama with absolutely no inclusion in what they are doing.

Please don’t make them essential to the story in HoTS…

keep in mind the story ISN’T ABOUT YOU

tis about THEM.

YOUR the add on whose replacable (by every other player character in the game)

this is Destiny’s Edge 2.0’s story, that you just happen to be following

Except in the story those other player characters do not exist. You are DE 2.0’s leader. You defeated Zhaitan. You brought DE 1.0 back together. You were the first pact commander. And so on.

Diovid.9506:

arenta.2953:

Hanako.1827:

Can we please have nothing to do with Destiny Edge 2.0 when this expansion hits? They would serve much better as small packs of friends finding their own journey through Maguuma that we sometimes meet in-between our adventures, granted you might find the team enjoyable if you have a taste for bad dialect and story telling but most of us don’t like them.

It’s honestly a joke that to progress through the game, I have to do it with a cast of members I don’t like. Braham and Rox are stale, Kasmeer and Marjory are just shoehorned lesbians that constantly flaunt the fact that they are together in our face, tied together with the worst voice acting I have ever heard and Taimi though being really cool isn’t all that unique and special, just another disgruntled Asura. And as a character doing my story with them I can’t help but feel like a watcher of their drama with absolutely no inclusion in what they are doing.

Please don’t make them essential to the story in HoTS…

keep in mind the story ISN’T ABOUT YOU

tis about THEM.

YOUR the add on whose replacable (by every other player character in the game)

this is Destiny’s Edge 2.0’s story, that you just happen to be following

Except in the story those other player characters do not exist. You are DE 2.0’s leader. You defeated Zhaitan. You brought DE 1.0 back together. You were the first pact commander. And so on.

yeah, and how FORCED was that

read the novels. how forced is it to have a random person somehow bring DE 1.0 together……if u ply the dungeons, they did it on their own and you were jsut there. your the outsider and yet somehow your their leader(when most don’t even know who the hell you are)

you did NOT defeat zhaitan. the ship “glory of tyria” did it with its laser and confetti cannons(which was so lame. you just happened to be on the ship)

the Pact commander? sorry, but that whole thing was ruined by the kitten pile of weeds that should have been an advisor. not in charge of you with his emotionless voice acting.

DE 2.0 was brought together by you yes, but your replaceable. it doesn’t matter if you an asura, human, sylvari, or charr…..when what race you are should affect how you respond to them and how they respond to you. but it doesnt. so you replaceable.

i actually miss the lv 10 and 20 story lines….back when the story was PERSONAL and not you following people being forced into a random role.

For me its a mixed bag, I appreciate the efforts but I dislike pretty much all of them apart from taimi. LW2 was better than LW1 on this front, purely because it really felt like you were the leader and leaders have to lead people they like and dont like regardless.

I also hate the fact kasmeer and marjory are constantly flaunting their lesbian-ness. None of them have real depth, and they all seem to fit within this perfect dE 2.0 cliche.

I also feel like rather than organic character growth where players are arguing between favourable NPCs because of natural storytelling, anet have been literally shoving big personality archetypes in our face FORCING us to like them. But hey, this is the hardest challenge in writing, coming up with characters that are naturally likeable.

HoT must start thinking outside the cliched box and give us REAL character development. Brahanm needs to actually have some personality and stop using one liners. Kasmeer needs to stop smiling and actually face some hardship. I mean when I watched the recent story recap it actually surprised me that her family had become poor… Correct me if im wrong but that wasnt clearly conveyed at all until now and even so, you wouldnt be able to tell anyway with how ‘perfect’ and barbie she is. Marjory needs to actually act like a investigator and come to realise how her and kasmeer are like the complete opposites of each other. Rox needs to fall in love with brahamn and bite the bullet when he rejects her… again, without meaning to sound mean, ADDING some actual depth. Taimi needs a sex change because ya know, shes pretty cool and there isnt anyway near enough cool guys in the story.

One last thing, the player character could do with some romance options, bringing optional personality back and actually altering relationships within the group because of it. Ya know, the things that attaches and connects different players with different NPCs.

I 100% agree. I WANT to like them, but I wasn’t around for most of Season 1, and I don’t feel very connected to these characters at all. It’s sad that Marjory and Kasmeer have basically no personality and there only there because lesbians. Rox and Braham are bland, and frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if they turned out to be a Godkitten inter-species couple and we get a cutscene kiss between them just like with Marjory and Kasmeer. Taimi is the only remotely likable character in my opinion, she seems to have a lot of energy and excitement, things which are severely lacking with the other four. Too bad ANet wouldn’t even think of getting rid of them in Season 3.

You dislike them, I quite like them. Opinions vary.

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

One last thing, the player character could do with some romance options, bringing optional personality back and actually altering relationships within the group because of it. Ya know, the things that attaches and connects different players with different NPCs.

How about no romance at all? I’m freaking exploring the land of Tyria, not the land of some sylvari dude’s body. And I could give less of a crap about other NPCs’ romance.

But I agree we need more game changing, actual RPG decisions that take you down different paths depending on your choice, and then as a result of that choice it gives you more choices that branch off from that, and so on.

Also remember how choosing your personality during character creation was going to actually make a difference? Yeah… what gives.

Starlightpaw.5871:

Parlourbeatflex.5970:

One last thing, the player character could do with some romance options, bringing optional personality back and actually altering relationships within the group because of it. Ya know, the things that attaches and connects different players with different NPCs.

How about no romance at all? I’m freaking exploring the land of Tyria, not the land of some sylvari dude’s body. And I could give less of a crap about other NPCs’ romance.

But I agree we need more game changing, actual RPG decisions that take you down different paths depending on your choice, and then as a result of that choice it gives you more choices that branch off from that, and so on.

Also remember how choosing your personality during character creation was going to actually make a difference? Yeah… what gives.

Well, at least the option to. Id like to turn marjory or kasmeer straight is all. Only if its to stop them from talking about each other SO MUCH

BUT ANYWAY….

Yea like how all events were a push pull mechanic meant to test the map wide effort of players, securing and defending areas with meaningful MOBs throughout the map. Guess there trying again with HoTs…

Godkitten the hype train, I was riding that puppy about 2 years before gw2 came out. Not this time. In wait of just how deep the jungle goes.

I personally like them (not so much braham with his bitterness against his mom for whatever reason), but I think the position they’re given really screws with people. It’s just like original DE, Trahearne, or the earliest example freaking Kormir. Anet seems to like to have you as a part of the story but they keep npcs close by to take all the credit. It’s like they don’t want to deal with justifying how every player would be the leader/victor/hero of the stories actions. Kill a god and somehow blind worthless chick gets the power, unite 3 factions into a multiracial army and somehow the salad scholar gets to lead it. So I like the characters of the group, especially in season 1 when they were just a bit of a focus point during the chaos, but in season 2 they try to pretend like you’re the boss when they’re the ones making the choices so it doesn’t really feel like you’re doing much but following them around.

One thing I will say I take issue with is that the “group” feels like it’s made of two separate groups. Whenever they split up Rox and Braham go one way and Marjory and Kasmeer go the other, then Taimi goes with one of them. So Taimi seems like the only one that interacts with everyone on a regular basis, like she’s the child of divorced parents and the only thing keeping them together. Otherwise rox and braham go bro it up somewhere while jory and kas go on an investigation date and the the 2 groups wouldn’t even talk if Taimi wasn’t there.

Also I didn’t care for DE 1, aside from Rytlock and Zojja. Caithe, Logan, and Eir all felt so lifeless to me.

XDeathShadowX.2619:

I personally like them (not so much braham with his bitterness against his mom for whatever reason), but I think the position they’re given really screws with people. It’s just like original DE, Trahearne, or the earliest example freaking Kormir. Anet seems to like to have you as a part of the story but they keep npcs close by to take all the credit. It’s like they don’t want to deal with justifying how every player would be the leader/victor/hero of the stories actions. Kill a god and somehow blind worthless chick gets the power, unite 3 factions into a multiracial army and somehow the salad scholar gets to lead it. So I like the characters of the group, especially in season 1 when they were just a bit of a focus point during the chaos, but in season 2 they try to pretend like you’re the boss when they’re the ones making the choices so it doesn’t really feel like you’re doing much but following them around.

One thing I will say I take issue with is that the “group” feels like it’s made of two separate groups. Whenever they split up Rox and Braham go one way and Marjory and Kasmeer go the other, then Taimi goes with one of them. So Taimi seems like the only one that interacts with everyone on a regular basis, like she’s the child of divorced parents and the only thing keeping them together. Otherwise rox and braham go bro it up somewhere while jory and kas go on an investigation date and the the 2 groups wouldn’t even talk if Taimi wasn’t there.

Also I didn’t care for DE 1, aside from Rytlock and Zojja. Caithe, Logan, and Eir all felt so lifeless to me.

logan had life. he was a b****
xD
sorry, had to be said. seems most people in AC and Twilight harbor agree on that though.

Caithe has life in the personal story, not so much when with DE
Rytlock only has life when u see him in black citadel.
Eir needs a rework (she’s a sculptor. let her sculpt!)
Zojja………………………………………………………………………has father issues…..(i know snaff isn’t her father but still….she’s got problems)

Hanako.1827:

Kasmeer and Marjory are just shoehorned lesbians that constantly flaunt the fact that they are together in our face

I know some people don’t understand language and subtext but I’ll explain why this is not a nice way of expressing yourself.

“in our face” is a phrase linked with “rubbing dirt/kitten in our face”, when you use this about being shown a lesbian couple it creates the notion that their relationship or all lesbian relationships are something awful being inflicted on you.

You might not mean that (or you might) but this language is what stirs up resentment and offense, you’re using provocative language.

In truth Kasmeer has a very interesting backstory and has a character arc through the living story.

Aristocratic family destroyed by her brother – unsure of her place in the world – meeting Marjory – discovering she has unique talents – dealing with the nightmare tower’s effects – strength from vengence charging Scarlet – Anise (fellow Mesmer) helping her get back to court (which implies there is a coven of Mesmers in great position to help one another in DR) – how to help a loved one who has suffered a loss and feeling helpless – feeling like a valued member of DE 2.0.

She’s a lot more than just a lesbian.

Coulter.2315:

Hanako.1827:

Kasmeer and Marjory are just shoehorned lesbians that constantly flaunt the fact that they are together in our face

I know some people don’t understand language and subtext but I’ll explain why this is not a nice way of expressing yourself.

“in our face” is a phrase linked with “rubbing dirt/kitten in our face”, when you use this about being shown a lesbian couple it creates the notion that their relationship or all lesbian relationships are something awful being inflicted on you.

You might not mean that (or you might) but this language is what stirs up resentment and offense, you’re using provocative language.

In truth Kasmeer has a very interesting backstory and has a character arc through the living story.

Aristocratic family destroyed by her brother – unsure of her place in the world – meeting Marjory – discovering she has unique talents – dealing with the nightmare tower’s effects – strength from vengence charging Scarlet – Anise (fellow Mesmer) helping her get back to court (which implies there is a coven of Mesmers in great position to help one another in DR) – how to help a loved one who has suffered a loss and feeling helpless – feeling like a valued member of DE 2.0.

She’s a lot more than just a lesbian.

Not going to lie, for a lot of folks depicting lesbians (or gay people more generally) merely as people that exist amounts to “shoving it in their faces.” That’s sad and definitely says more about them than about the content.

Coulter.2315:

I know some people don’t understand language and subtext but I’ll explain why this is not a nice way of expressing yourself.

“in our face” is a phrase linked with “rubbing dirt/kitten in our face”, when you use this about being shown a lesbian couple it creates the notion that their relationship or all lesbian relationships are something awful being inflicted on you.

You might not mean that (or you might) but this language is what stirs up resentment and offense, you’re using provocative language.

In truth Kasmeer has a very interesting backstory and has a character arc through the living story.

Aristocratic family destroyed by her brother – unsure of her place in the world – meeting Marjory – discovering she has unique talents – dealing with the nightmare tower’s effects – strength from vengence charging Scarlet – Anise (fellow Mesmer) helping her get back to court (which implies there is a coven of Mesmers in great position to help one another in DR) – how to help a loved one who has suffered a loss and feeling helpless – feeling like a valued member of DE 2.0.

She’s a lot more than “just a lesbian” but I guess you weren’t listening.

Let’s pretend for a moment that Marjory was a dude and he feel in love with Kasmeer or vice versa. That would mean that they would be a straight couple, and guess what, I still wouldn’t like it. Why? Because they have no personality. They are just there, and they happen to be in a relationship. It doesn’t matter what KIND of relationship, I don’t care that they’re lesbians, but outside of this relationship there’s nothing extraordinary about who they are as individual characters. There’s no personality, and the relationship does nothing to improve it, so it becomes annoying when you are constantly reminded that these two characters are together when that relationship doesn’t matter. Mentioning it over and over and over again makes it seem like the writers are trying too hard to force you to feel like this relationship means something, when it really doesn’t. At least not to me.

You brought up their backstories. I didn’t feel like the backstories of these characters made their personalities any more outstanding. Kasmeer and Marjory both had rough pasts… and in order to cope with this they… fall in love and everything is suddenly ok because they have each other? This is very cliche writing. It would be far better if they were able to overcome their troubles on their own, which would help them develop as individual characters, and their relationship could just be the cherry on top of the ice cream.

They ARE more than just lesbians, but it doesn’t feel like they are since their relationship is at the forefront of their “character development.” I don’t doubt it’s especially hard for people who haven’t played season 1 at all to see these characters as anything but lesbians. This is unfortunate. Also, if we have to be paying special attention to the story to see past their relationship in order to see their personalities, then their personalities aren’t being expressed strongly enough.

Inb4 kittenstorm because I said something negative about a fictional person who happens to be a lesbian and get called a homophobe.

MattyP.6954:

Not going to lie, for a lot of folks depicting lesbians (or gay people more generally) merely as people that exist amounts to “shoving it in their faces.” That’s sad and definitely says more about them than about the content.

It’s a sad reality. If one looks at a gay or lesbian couple depicted in a form of media (or real life), then they should pretend, hypothetically, that the couple is straight. If they don’t have a problem with that, or think the couple is not shoving their relationship in the player’s face but a same-sex relationship is, then they really need to re-evaluate their positions as it is quite hypocritical.

I can sympathize a bit with people who just don’t care for any relationships to be mentioned, but that’s often not the reality of the narratives and people do fall in love, even in the worst of circumstances (sometimes because of them).

Starlightpaw.5871:

Coulter.2315:

I know some people don’t understand language and subtext but I’ll explain why this is not a nice way of expressing yourself.

“in our face” is a phrase linked with “rubbing dirt/kitten in our face”, when you use this about being shown a lesbian couple it creates the notion that their relationship or all lesbian relationships are something awful being inflicted on you.

You might not mean that (or you might) but this language is what stirs up resentment and offense, you’re using provocative language.

In truth Kasmeer has a very interesting backstory and has a character arc through the living story.

Aristocratic family destroyed by her brother – unsure of her place in the world – meeting Marjory – discovering she has unique talents – dealing with the nightmare tower’s effects – strength from vengence charging Scarlet – Anise (fellow Mesmer) helping her get back to court (which implies there is a coven of Mesmers in great position to help one another in DR) – how to help a loved one who has suffered a loss and feeling helpless – feeling like a valued member of DE 2.0.

She’s a lot more than “just a lesbian” but I guess you weren’t listening.

Let’s pretend for a moment that Marjory was a dude and he feel in love with Kasmeer or vice versa. That would mean that they would be a straight couple, and guess what, I still wouldn’t like it. Why? Because they have no personality. They are just there, and they happen to be in a relationship. It doesn’t matter what KIND of relationship, I don’t care that they’re lesbians, but outside of this relationship there’s nothing extraordinary about who they are as individual characters. There’s no personality, and the relationship does nothing to improve it, so it becomes annoying when you are constantly reminded that these two characters are together when that relationship doesn’t matter. Mentioning it over and over and over again makes it seem like the writers are trying too hard to force you to feel like this relationship means something, when it really doesn’t. At least not to me.

You brought up their backstories. I didn’t feel like the backstories of these characters made their personalities any more outstanding. Kasmeer and Marjory both had rough pasts… and in order to cope with this they… fall in love and everything is suddenly ok because they have each other? This is very cliche writing. It would be far better if they were able to overcome their troubles on their own, which would help them develop as individual characters, and their relationship could just be the cherry on top of the ice cream.

They ARE more than just lesbians, but it doesn’t feel like they are since their relationship is at the forefront of their “character development.” I don’t doubt it’s especially hard for people who haven’t played season 1 at all to see these characters as anything but lesbians. This is unfortunate. Also, if we have to be paying special attention to the story to see past their relationship in order to see their personalities, then their personalities aren’t being expressed strongly enough.

Inb4 kittenstorm because I said something negative about a fictional person who happens to be a lesbian and get called a homophobe.

So you would like the writing team to work on their characters and personalities more, you’ll get no arguments here. Its generally tough writing heroic teams and on top of that they have to include the player character – its a much more complex job than people seem to give credit for.

They used some old clichés for sure but remember how general and wide their audience is across the globe and then they need to try and give time to each in game race and for the adventure to interact with the player. I would love GW2 to release some new BOOKS so we can get into the characters more (this is why the original DE gets a better ride because their in game representations are not that impressive – just from the game you think “these people just all hate each other why would they ever be a team” then poof friends at the end).

I agree more work can be done to flesh them out but people get so strung up on “they’re just lesbians” its ridiculous and not true.

“Fed up heterosexual male gamer reporting in. Give me more of what I’ve been used to.”

I agree, I’d prefer to see them sidelined and a return to palling around with Destiny’s Edge throughout the upcoming expansion. Destiny’s Edge still has a lot more to do before I think it’s time to warrant a change in NPC heroes for us to accompany or be accompanied by.

i’ve made my comments on DE 1.0 in this

now for DE 2.0

honestly…i like them(to varying degrees)
they were a massive improvement over the constant infighting in DE 1.0 (STOP FIGHTING OR I’LL STAB YOU AND REPLACE U WITH SKRITT)

Tiami is interesting, as a underage character tagging along hasn’t been done yet, and her reliance on her golem is nice. my only complaint is when she walks, the game constantly makes her scream louder than she talks (idk whats wrong with her but turn the volume down or give her a hover chair)

Rox’s backstory is interesting, but mostly her and Braham need to get a move on and speed up their current stories. they tend to take the roles of 2ndary characters in the story when they should be up front.
Braham….stop copying Logan by being kitteny. Get along with your mother or ignore her. but stop brooding over it!!!!
Rox, give us ideas to your plans for the future. do you really have a crush on Braham? are you making any progress with rytlock. etc

Rox could learn a few things from the Charr in the light novel Ghosts of Ascalon’s Charr.

Marjory and Kasmeer are a breath of fresh air over the romance-less story we’ve had so far. and honestly i enjoyed their conversations.
compared to DE 1.0 and the Pact. Marjory and Kasmeer are actually believable in their emotions (though they could work on their timing…..middle of a fight is not the time…)

over all, i like them and look forward to bringing them along to turn Traeharne into firewood.
-i dont care if Traeharne turned evil or not. he’s going in the fire for being an emotionless, untimely, horribly written, glory stealing, forced in, character

Algreg.3629:

trust me, you will probably see Wolverine return transgendered before you will see this happen. Politicizing art is the megatrend now. All art is political, but art that tries to be mainly political is usually subpar. Best to just don´t bother anymore.

I want to see TransRace! No racial discrimination when you can be any race you want.

I personally dont have a problem with the idea that my order might ask me to work with DE2 but having them assigned to be my friends and being designated as boss bothers me enough to impact my enjoyment of the story. Our characters were able to work along side a number of npc’s in the PS without having our friendship dictated to us, why not now?

I didnt join their guild. I dont care for them as characters. What I see in these characters is an example of the worst sort of character writing/design:

“I think my creations are so cute and adorable that everyone must just eat them up, [squeal].”

As a writer you should never tell the audience how they feel about your characters, you should strive to make them feel for your characters. What we have here is a step down from a lot of fan-fic.

I find them to be boring, stale, overused characters with little depth or personality. They all strike me as simply children with parental issues playing the parts of adults. I prefer the original Destiny’s Edge over the B-Iconics. One of my biggest hopes going into HoT is that we will get new iconics to replace the B-Iconics.

This is how I feel about DE 2.0

Braham: Comes off as the token dumb character who your just suppose to love because he makes a fool of himself. We are suppose to love him because he didn’t have a relationship with his mom or he broke his leg. All these makes up for him being just the blockhead of the group.

Rox: Is just wallpaper/torch carrier in season 2 and doesn’t do much for the group.

Marjory and Kasmeer: Are basically one person because their relationship dominates nearly every scene they are in and that is why a lot of people get a very high school like and empty feeling from their relationship.

Also sometimes I wonder does Marjory and Kasmeer even have a paragraph of dialogue with anyone else in DE2.0? Exaggerating here but I never feel like they ever interact with the others in DE2.0. Most of the time they just ask you how Rox, Taimi, or Braham are doing like they are just friends of a friend (in this case you).

Also when it comes to these characters backstories being interesting or compelling that’s great and all but they did the same thing with Destiny Edge. They create compelling backstories for all their characters and then when the player interacts with them those interactions comes off flat. Backstory is great and all but we are not playing these character’s backstories we are creating stories with them.

Taimi: Didn’t include her because I like her character. I like her character because her personality is written with passion and she has faults (young and naive). Funny thing is I like Taimi’s character before I even realized she is another token character ( the disabled person) because I didn’t realize that she had a limp until she ran away into the desert. Goes to show that if you give your characters personality people will like them beyond what you put on their id card (male, charr, prodigy, meat head, disabled).

If Destiny’s Edge 2.0 had even an ounce of the lovable personality that Tybalt has, then they would be in a good place. As it stands though? No. They’re all just too mopey.

I would much rather be hanging out with my character’s order of choice over Trahearne and Destiny’s Edge 2.0.

Given the amount of money that goes into games like these, you’d THINK they could get writers who can come up with less hackneyed cliche ridden characters.

I’m thinking of games like Baldur’s Gate, for NPCs, or games in the vein of the entire Sierra catalog (King’s Quest, Quest for Glory, etc.) for inspiration. Heck, hire Lori and Corey Cole as character consultants.

As for Marjory and Kasmeer, is there an HR department in anyone’s guild? So we can lodge a sexual harassment complaint? Its nothing to do with their same sex relationship, its a problem with having 99.99% of their dialogue being 50 Shades of Twilight harlequin romance. It’d be equally as bad if I had to listen to Logan go on about the Queen, Romeo and Juliet style.

A lot of the developers inherit a very SJW vibe. I looked up the writer for the story and found Teddy Nyugen who is trans, that’s all well and good, I don’t mind at all that someone from the trans community is able to develop video games, but when I looked further into her twitter I noticed she followed ALOT of people who are absolutely notorious for being bigoted and radically integrating their political agenda into media, Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu, Srhbutts (Literally a self admitted paedophile) and pretty much every notorious SJW extremist you can find, I really don’t know if I want someone like that in charge of creating to story of a game such as this, they need a serious professional.

Kaleban.9834:

Given the amount of money that goes into games like these, you’d THINK they could get writers who can come up with less hackneyed cliche ridden characters.

I’m thinking of games like Baldur’s Gate, for NPCs, or games in the vein of the entire Sierra catalog (King’s Quest, Quest for Glory, etc.) for inspiration. Heck, hire Lori and Corey Cole as character consultants.

As for Marjory and Kasmeer, is there an HR department in anyone’s guild? So we can lodge a sexual harassment complaint? Its nothing to do with their same sex relationship, its a problem with having 99.99% of their dialogue being 50 Shades of Twilight harlequin romance. It’d be equally as bad if I had to listen to Logan go on about the Queen, Romeo and Juliet style.

Yeah it has nothing to do with it being same sex. For example Guild Wars Nightfall was a great story you know what was the worse scene in that entire campaign. The scene where Tahlkora confesses her love to Koss and he has to turn her down. It was cringe worthy and felt entirely misplaced in the epic of killing a god.

The story telling in the guild wars franchise went from the stuff we had in factions and nightfall where we know that Mhenlo has a thing for Cynn and Melonni and Koss have a thing to. But those wernt even secondary to the story they were just added tidbits to the characters. The stories were focused on killing Shiro and Abbadon. But now this story we have… sorry we cant take down this Elder Dragon yet because we have to get our hormones under control.

I kind of understand that the relationship between Kass and Marj are suppose to add breadth to their characters. But their relationship is the dominating characteristic of their characters. Also, Lets be honest how many great fantasy epics have the main character’s love relationship at the center of the story telling.

sebradle.7034:

I kind of understand that the relationship between Kass and Marj are suppose to add breadth to their characters.

How else are they going to demonstrate their support for the LGBT movement?

But I agree, that has too much emphasis on the story line…

DarkSpirit.7046:

sebradle.7034:

I kind of understand that the relationship between Kass and Marj are suppose to add breadth to their characters.

How else are they going to demonstrate their support for the LGBT movement?

But I agree, that has too much emphasis on the story line…

The thing is it actually does, we have writers that seem more obsessed about inclusion and diversity than they do actual story development. The writers do not seem capable of both.

sebradle.7034:

Also, Lets be honest how many great fantasy epics have the main character’s love relationship at the center of the story telling.

I get your point, but it’s more than you would think: the Homeric Epics, the Greek tragedies, A Thousand and One Nights, and the entire genre of Arthurian Romance.

DarkSpirit.7046:

How else are they going to demonstrate their support for the LGBT movement?

But I agree, that has too much emphasis on the story line…

I welcome support for the LGBT community, but to that end, I also want support to the construction of a good narrative and character development. ArenaNet could also just put in some more minor NPCs and no one making a big deal out of their relationships. Sometimes less is more, though having a prominent LGBT relationship is also beneficial. Any prominent relationship, regardless of the sex or gender of the partners involved, should not detract from the narrative. In the case of the great fantasy epics I listed above, romance enhances the epics and make them memorable as parts of the human condition and frailty.

Starlightpaw.5871:

Oh, wonderful…

Don’t feed it, and we may continue to have a conversation without the threat of having this thread locked.

Genesis.8572:

I get your point, but it’s more than you would think: the Homeric Epics, the Greek tragedies, A Thousand and One Nights, and the entire genre of Arthurian Romance.

With the exception of A Thousand and One Nights which is more of a love story with epics built into because its a frame story. I feel like most of the romances in those stories are just plot points that drive the story forward. Mostly because the main characters are male and the women act as temptations or rewards or whatever you would like. I think the only equivalent of that in the GW2 story so far is Belinda’s death which bring Kass and Marjory closer together. I think things like that should be the focus of their relationship but most of the time their relationship feels more like I’m in a romcom to me then a fantasy story.

Edit: Also there is a reason no one gives Caithe and Faolain’s relationship the same grief as Majory and Kass. That is because there is actually conflict and temptation in that relationship so it feels more real and interesting. On the other hand like I said the only conflict in Kass and Marj’s relationship has been Belinda’s death and they are handling it like two people who didn’t just see all of Lion’s Arch leveled to the ground. Also Kass’s valley girl personality is annoying.

I agree with the op. Please get rid of diversity edge. Feels like I am in a sensitivity training class. The sjw behavior modeling is just ruining the story.

I think it might be good to kill the most annoying and possibly the second most, pushing the others to change. Also a good place to get better characters in their place.

Genesis.8572:

I get your point, but it’s more than you would think: the Homeric Epics, the Greek tragedies, A Thousand and One Nights, and the entire genre of Arthurian Romance.

These and uncountable others use romance and love as a plot point, but the characters are not wholly defined by that love.

When you think King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, do you think about the whiny portrayal of the movie First Knight (Richard Gere and Sean Connery), or the portrayal in movies such as The Sword in the Stone, Monty Python and the Holy Grail and Excalibur?

Romance should be used as a motivating factor, but not be the sole defining characteristic, which predictably results in the terrible fan-fiction quality writing reminiscent of Twilight.

I’ve grown quite attached to my dorks personally. I’d be sad to see them go.

I won’t lie. I prefer the original Destiny’s Edge over the new group, but I got the feeling they are here to stay; whether we like them or not.

Coulter.2315:

She’s a lot more than just a lesbian.

Yeah, she’s also a better mesmer than your character in every possible way. I wish I could ground target portals, blink across gaps, and create 4+ clones at a time!

Also, Marjory and Kasmeer’s relationship is super ham-handed (even leaving aside the whole “starting a relationship with someone while being the only thing between them and homelessness” aspect), to the point that Logan’s pining for Jennah (something that’s been relentlessly mocked by the playerbase, and rightly so) looks downright nuanced in comparison.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Coulter.2315:

She’s a lot more than just a lesbian.

Yeah, she’s also a better mesmer than your character in every possible way.

How dare you! I am Lyssa’s chosen, Kasmeer is a faithful servant but make no mistake who is favoured here.