Guild Wars 2

Do any of you believe Raids Dungeons are coming in HoT?

Speculation?

I am going over the AngryJoe interview, and get that vibe that Raids are coming.

They keep mentioning other group and guild content….

I’m no fortune teller, but that combined with the AI consultant and the person(s) they’ve hired specifically for raids suggest yes, at some time, when its ready.

Considering they tried as hard as they could to avoid answering the question, I doubt it.

Maybe?

We do know that they did hire raid designer quite some time ago. Along with some major work on AI.

One could also read the Masteries unlocking daily Champions for Rewards as potential raids, I suppose.

Time will tell.

Lazaar.9123:

Considering they tried as hard as they could to avoid answering the question, I doubt it.

that makes sense.

any other opinions?

I get that vibe that its coming. Along with the Trinity mechanics added, it makes sense for instanced PvE fights honestly.

Knighthonor.4061:

I get that vibe that its coming. Along with the Trinity mechanics added, it makes sense for instanced PvE fights honestly.

there are no trinity mechanics added…

I sure as hell hope so. Exploring isn’t really my thing. And no matter how much i love it, pvp tends to get stale. Fractals are awesome but this game is so perfect for 10 – 20 man raids.
-With no trinity you don’t have to worry about whatever class you decide to take.
-With no gear tread it opens up to a lot of people without baring half of your playerbase

Well they did put out a memo months back saying they were specifically looking to hire a team of designers with experience designing raid content.

So I am hopeful that yes instanced raids will be coming.

However given how much they skirted around the question when AngryJoe asked it I think it is likely something that is giving them trouble & could take longer then expected.

God knows the game really needs it though. You can only make open world content so hard before random people come along and ruin the fight for everyone else because they have no idea how the mechanics work or what they should be doing.

Knighthonor.4061:

Lazaar.9123:

Considering they tried as hard as they could to avoid answering the question, I doubt it.

that makes sense.

any other opinions?

I get that vibe that its coming. Along with the Trinity mechanics added, it makes sense for instanced PvE fights honestly.

There are no trinity mechanics being added.

Your most likely confused about how the new taunt abilities will work.

They will be resource intensive & or be on long cool downs. They wont be like other games where you can gauge threat & spam high aggro abilities then taunt when all else fails.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Knighthonor.4061:

Lazaar.9123:

Considering they tried as hard as they could to avoid answering the question, I doubt it.

that makes sense.

any other opinions?

I get that vibe that its coming. Along with the Trinity mechanics added, it makes sense for instanced PvE fights honestly.

There are no trinity mechanics being added.

Your most likely confused about how the new taunt abilities will work.

They will be resource intensive & or be on long cool downs. They wont be like other games where you can gauge threat & spam high aggro abilities then taunt when all else fails.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Elementals_%28earth%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Lesser_Elementals_%28earth%29
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Thumper_Turret

Dont get things twisted. there are already skills in the game that generate high amounts of aggro compared to other skills.

Kentrey.3251:

I sure as hell hope so. Exploring isn’t really my thing. And no matter how much i love it, pvp tends to get stale. Fractals are awesome but this game is so perfect for 10 – 20 man raids.
-With no trinity you don’t have to worry about whatever class you decide to take.
-With no gear tread it opens up to a lot of people without baring half of your playerbase

With no trinity you also get raids that are a lot less mechanically impressive. Everything has to be watered down since a lot of the raid designs cant be done with a everyone does everything style. Look at raids in wildstar, wow, and other raid biased games and they are just worlds apart from what gw2 has shown us for pve so far. If they do put raids though i hope they impresses us and arnt world bossed 2.0

Shinji.2063:

With no trinity you also get raids that are a lot less mechanically impressive. Everything has to be watered down since a lot of the raid designs cant be done with a everyone does everything style.

Not necessarily. It’s how you design the encounter to fit in with your systems.

Look at The Lover’s fight in AC. Despite the lack of dedicated tanks and aggro management, that fight has a mechanic where you need to keep both of the bosses away from each other; the only fault with the fight is that the bosses don’t try to go near each other enough.

Just because everyone can do everything, it doesn’t mean you can’t design encounters that require certain things. In fact, I’d say it’s the opposite; because everyone can do everything – and the freedom in which you can build your character – it opens up a lot more in the way of what can be expected of players, since players have more options and aren’t stuck in a set group composition.

Just came over from TOR, and my only hope is that if they’re added, they are interesting and don’t end up with the pitfall of most MMO end game raiding where there are 10,000 circles around the bosses, forcing melee to stay on the run and lose viability while ranged sit back and plink.

That said, with the abilities classes in this game actually have, melee-focused classes don’t go to zero effectiveness because of temporary need to work at range. Anyway, I hope raids are coming because as a whole I’m loving the game so far and it definitely could support some amazing looking instanced encounters.

As to aggro, perhaps things can vary by encounter and in some cases items can be picked up to cause the boss/adds to target/not target certain players. Guess time will tell.

I dont think we’re getting raids. More worrisome, is they avoid even saying we’re getting a single new normal dungeon..

Clearly they have ‘something’ in mind, and whatever it is will have a ‘GW2 twist’. Like.. fractals is a pretty unique GW2 twist to the typical dungeons (even if the rewards are bunk), I’m just worried that literally nothing has been mentioned about PVE except for hopping on mushrooms and stuff.

Knighthonor.4061:

Do any of you believe Raids Dungeons are coming in HoT?

Speculation?

I am going over the AngryJoe interview, and get that vibe that Raids are coming.

no!

No. I don’t think raids are coming in the form people from other games are used to.

They have said multiple times that they announced ALL of the major new features coming with Heart of Thorns at their unveiling event. If instanced group content at the raid level was planned, I think they would have included that.

That doesnt mean they cannot bring large group challenges into the game in other ways, however – even content that requires a high level of coordination. I really think it will come through the content structures they have in place now (and I think they can make that work)

I think the key things to keep an eye on are guild functionality and masteries. Either could provide mechanics for accessing or triggering highly challenging group (5+ people) content.

Maybe.

I don’t expect the WoW definition of raids with a whole series of bosses in an instance. Perhaps we could do world bosses with just the guild, I think there was some sly mention of the Marionette.

I do suspect more guild centric content. arenanet seems to emphasize Guilds heavily in HoT but the truth is there is very little actual content to do for guilds. There are guild missions and WvW, I believe there will be more added to this list.

I don’t belive any raids are coming. Watch Angry Joe’s interview, and Joe repeating “raid” like machine gun and Colling making dodges left and right when hearing the word.

To be fair, these are the same guys who kept the fact Heart of Thorns was even an expansion a secret until Pax for, like, no reason. So who knows? Maybe.

What’s the point of raids without trinity?

It would result in a zergfest (like world bosses), where you just burn things down asap.

With the current game mechanics, the only raid situation that could exist, is 12/24/71152 people stack in 1 spot, hitting the same boss untill it’s dead.

Lazaar.9123:

Considering they tried as hard as they could to avoid answering the question, I doubt it.

I’ve noticed in all their interview they’re trying to stay away from this topic as much as possible. Which as far as I’m concerned simply means that they don’t have anything to put on the table. So will there be raids? Maybe, but at present it’s either at a design phase or at a very early implementation phase.

Shinji.2063:

With no trinity you also get raids that are a lot less mechanically impressive.

Less rote certainly. Not sure if less mechanically impressive is correct though.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

What’s the point of raids without trinity?

It would result in a zergfest (like world bosses), where you just burn things down asap.

With the current game mechanics, the only raid situation that could exist, is 12/24/71152 people stack in 1 spot, hitting the same boss untill it’s dead.

I guess you haven’t been playing S2 of the living story. There’s a lot you can do without a trinity to make encounters interesting.

CureForLiving.5360:

Lazaar.9123:

Considering they tried as hard as they could to avoid answering the question, I doubt it.

I’ve noticed in all their interview they’re trying to stay away from this topic as much as possible. Which as far as I’m concerned simply means that they don’t have anything to put on the table. So will there be raids? Maybe, but at present it’s either at a design phase or at a very early implementation phase.

Shinji.2063:

With no trinity you also get raids that are a lot less mechanically impressive.

Less rote certainly. Not sure if less mechanically impressive is correct though.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

What’s the point of raids without trinity?

It would result in a zergfest (like world bosses), where you just burn things down asap.

With the current game mechanics, the only raid situation that could exist, is 12/24/71152 people stack in 1 spot, hitting the same boss untill it’s dead.

I guess you haven’t been playing S2 of the living story. There’s a lot you can do without a trinity to make encounters interesting.

I played all of it. It was still a zergfest with numbers being the #1 advantage and not players or co-ordination.

PS: Changing my point of view on PvE in general after I watched an interview talking about the defiance changes. My hopes are not high, but it’s something I guess.

Anything but this braindead freeze and kill meta.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

I played all of it. It was still a zergfest with numbers being the #1 advantage and not players or co-ordination.

I suppose you haven’t spent much time in the Silverwastes?

I am certain that there is no trinity being added.

As for raids, I do not think they will be added with HoT.

If single pvp map and 1 borderland are major feature, I’m sure raids would be too and they would be annonounced.
Personally as long as content is well done I don’t care about quantity.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

I played all of it. It was still a zergfest with numbers being the #1 advantage and not players or co-ordination.

I’m referring to the story instances. There were no zergs in there, but pure merit of the fact that you can only be 5 players at a time. I’m more specifically referring to the later boss encounters where a lot of the focus was removed from high damage output and placed on the tactics. These were meant to be solo-able to I’ll admit that there was little cooperation required, but it does show what can be done to add mechanical variety to encounters and adding some cooperation onto what they had should provide a viable alternative to trinity.

If the requirements are anything like what happens in Silverwastes . . . they’re already here.

lordkrall.7241:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

I played all of it. It was still a zergfest with numbers being the #1 advantage and not players or co-ordination.

I suppose you haven’t spent much time in the Silverwastes?

If you call this a zone where tactics/co-operation is needed, you have not played anything serious in a long time.

Plus I’m talking about combat issues, not an entire zone mechanic. In a raid you won’t have an antire zone with 4 train zergs moving around. Combat is the #1 factor in raids/pve instances. As it is now, no mechanic can raise the skill needed for PvE.

We’ll have to wait and see how changes are in HoT.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

If you call this a zone where tactics/co-operation is needed, you have not played anything serious in a long time.

More specifically the bosses. The majority of them can’t really just be zerged down. If you try to do that, you will fail quite badly.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

What’s the point of raids without trinity?

It would result in a zergfest (like world bosses), where you just burn things down asap.

With the current game mechanics, the only raid situation that could exist, is 12/24/71152 people stack in 1 spot, hitting the same boss untill it’s dead.

By this logic the only raid situation that could exist in the Trinity is tank and spank or heal the target, since they’re the game mechanics of the Trinity.

How is focusing the whole battle on only one role more impressive than flexibly switching roles?

TheDaiBish.9735:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

What’s the point of raids without trinity?

It would result in a zergfest (like world bosses), where you just burn things down asap.

With the current game mechanics, the only raid situation that could exist, is 12/24/71152 people stack in 1 spot, hitting the same boss untill it’s dead.

By this logic the only raid situation that could exist in the Trinity is tank and spank or heal the target, since they’re the game mechanics of the Trinity.

Have you played a traditional MMO which required real tactics?

Usually for a raid you would need:

-2 main tanks (possibly swapping agro when needed depending on boss mechanics)
-1 off tank (either tanking something else, or kiting mobs)
-Healers
-off healer (usually relying on HoT’s that get extremelly powerfull but require time to build)
-buff class
-debuff class
-melee dps
-ranged dps

Yeah, good luck going there with tank & spank tactics. Your raid will make the repair npc a billionaire!

KngGilgamesh.3481:

How is focusing the whole battle on only one role more impressive than flexibly switching roles?

Not sure what you’re trying to say, but GW2 has no roles. There’s no tanking, there’s no healing, there’s only dps, and a minimum amount of support (which only some classes can offer).

That’s why 85% of the skills of ALL classes will never be a part of the PvE meta, and within 2 years, 1 out of the total 8 classes of the game, was never a part of the PvE meta.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Have you played a traditional MMO which required real tactics?

Usually for a raid you would need:

-2 main tanks (possibly swapping agro when needed depending on boss mechanics)
-1 off tank (either tanking something else, or kiting mobs)
-Healers
-off healer (usually relying on HoT’s that get extremelly powerfull but require time to build)
-buff class
-debuff class
-melee dps
-ranged dps

Yeah, good luck going there with tank & spank tactics. Your raid will make the repair npc a billionaire!

Yes, I have as a matter of fact. I did for around 5 years.

A lot of them mechanics that were essential to the fight though weren’t based around the Trinity as a whole though.

Since we’re going deep into game mechanics, GW2 has:

• Control – Movement (Immobilise, Cripple etc), Damage (Blind, Weakness etc) and CC (Daze, Stun etc)
• Damage – Melee, Ranged, DoT’s (Bleed, Torment etc) and Debuffs (Vulnerability, Poison etc)
• Support – Spot healing (regeneration, splash healing from skills), Condition Removal, Offensive Support (Might, Fury) and Defensive Support (Aegis, Protection).

Then we have things that don’t fit neatly into a category like combo fields and finishers and reflects.

So, tell me: With all of these mechanics at hand, why couldn’t you have engaging raids that are more than zerg and dps?

Knighthonor.4061:

Do any of you believe Raids Dungeons are coming in HoT?

Speculation?

I am going over the AngryJoe interview, and get that vibe that Raids are coming.

No. The guy in Joe’s interview specifically stated that there are no raids planned.

DeathPanel.8362:

Knighthonor.4061:

Do any of you believe Raids Dungeons are coming in HoT?

Speculation?

I am going over the AngryJoe interview, and get that vibe that Raids are coming.

No. The guy in Joe’s interview specifically stated that there are no raids planned.

He specifically said he couldn’t talk about what they had planned just there would be “Challenging Group Content”.

Colin didn’t deny any Raids.

guardian.6489:

DeathPanel.8362:

Knighthonor.4061:

Do any of you believe Raids Dungeons are coming in HoT?

Speculation?

I am going over the AngryJoe interview, and get that vibe that Raids are coming.

No. The guy in Joe’s interview specifically stated that there are no raids planned.

He specifically said he couldn’t talk about what they had planned just there would be “Challenging Group Content”.

Colin didn’t deny any Raids.

You’re right. I got that mixed up with when he denied new races in the future.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Have you played a traditional MMO which required real tactics?

Usually for a raid you would need:

-2 main tanks (possibly swapping agro when needed depending on boss mechanics)
-1 off tank (either tanking something else, or kiting mobs)
-Healers
-off healer (usually relying on HoT’s that get extremelly powerfull but require time to build)
-buff class
-debuff class
-melee dps
-ranged dps

Yeah, good luck going there with tank & spank tactics. Your raid will make the repair npc a billionaire!

Yes, I have as a matter of fact. I did for around 5 years.

A lot of them mechanics that were essential to the fight though weren’t based around the Trinity as a whole though.

Since we’re going deep into game mechanics, GW2 has:

• Control – Movement (Immobilise, Cripple etc), Damage (Blind, Weakness etc) and CC (Daze, Stun etc)
• Damage – Melee, Ranged, DoT’s (Bleed, Torment etc) and Debuffs (Vulnerability, Poison etc)
• Support – Spot healing (regeneration, splash healing from skills), Condition Removal, Offensive Support (Might, Fury) and Defensive Support (Aegis, Protection).

Then we have things that don’t fit neatly into a category like combo fields and finishers and reflects.

So, tell me: With all of these mechanics at hand, why couldn’t you have engaging raids that are more than zerg and dps?

We have these and more in-game since launch (2+ years). They are “playable” tactics. Heck, you can even have dedicaded healers (cleric ele’s camping water) in the group. Thing is though you will be far far better with the current meta. (Stacking to 1 spot, freeze & nuke) It is the case in every single dungeon.

As long as the whole game relies on dodge roll to avoid damage, and not mitigate it by any kind of buff, healers will never have a spot in meta, neither will tanks. Most of the bosses can one shot you, so what’s the point of having someone healing or tanking? Not to mention that water fields mess up might stacking/blinds etc…

+Also ranged dps is not viable because of no helping the group.

+DoT dps is not viable because of condi cap @25.

+Controll is not viable since you will mess the defiance removal proccess which is 99% job of thief.

So no, I have no reason to believe that 1 update will change how the whole game works for 2+ years now…

As I said before, I hope that the new defiance system along with class specs will change something, but my hopes are not high…

Knighthonor.4061:

Do any of you believe Raids Dungeons are coming in HoT?

Speculation?

I am going over the AngryJoe interview, and get that vibe that Raids are coming.

Raids would be a major feature. They claim they have already announced all major features of HoT. Thus, it’s highly unlikely that Raids are coming.
…which is a good thing.

Knighthonor.4061:

I am going over the AngryJoe interview, and get that vibe that Raids are coming.

That vibe is probably just a bad taco you ate.

10 man raids would be good for the game.

Nike.2631:

Knighthonor.4061:

I am going over the AngryJoe interview, and get that vibe that Raids are coming.

That vibe is probably just a bad taco you ate.

I remember you saying this to me, when I also said that HoT was an Expansion, and you said it was just LS3….

I’d suspect that any new content would be more in line with the existing open world events. Marionette was probably the most challenging open world content Anet has made. Vinewrath is a somewhat easier version, which isn’t to say it never fails but it certainly fails at a much lower rate than Marionette did.

I’d say Anet would go for something in between the two. This is taking into consideration the release of the Wyvern mini boss fights. There’s probably something beyond that like “bring down multiple wyverns while other meta events are going on.” that sort of thing.

I quite like the idea of map wide events. Although in the grand scheme of things it’s just a lot of turn the handle and spank the boss, there’s just enough risk of failure, factoring the average skill level of the players, to make it interesting. Small scale (10 players or so) raid type instanced content is significantly less interesting to me

Knighthonor.4061:

I remember you saying this to me, when I also said that HoT was an Expansion, and you said it was just LS3….

Skimming back through the last eleven moths of my posts with your name in them… Lets recap some of the things you’ve actually blurted out.

Nike.2631:

Knighthonor.4061:

Anybody notice that the Mesmer Specialization is using a Sword as Main hand?

Could it possible that all Specializations can use more than just their specialization weapon?

You were thinking a specialized necromancer could only equip greatsword/greatsword?

Nike.2631:

Knighthonor.4061:

Rumor is they are getting their own personal story for leveling up.

I don’t believe that for one-tenth of a second.

Starting area is set by RACE not class. There is zero reason to expect a new tutorial. There may be characters added to existing ones that chat with Revenants with new dialogue to help guide them, but beyond that, manage your expectations…

Nike.2631:

Knighthonor.4061:

Is it me or is Anet deleting the links and post to the reddit video of the guardian with bow?

Was that put in by accident?

The links are just fine. They’re in the Guardian boards though.

So, yeah: bad tacos.

((just to be thorough, I also checked – I haven’t used the word “taco” outside of this thread in at least 9 months. Must be someone else concerned with your digestion you’re remembering ))

Astralporing.1957:

Raids would be a major feature. They claim they have already announced all major features of HoT. Thus, it’s highly unlikely that Raids are coming.

fact is, if they are working on a raid, it probably wouldnt be ready when the expansion launches.

Azrael.4960:

I’d say Anet would go for something in between the two. This is taking into consideration the release of the Wyvern mini boss fights. There’s probably something beyond that like “bring down multiple wyverns while other meta events are going on.” that sort of thing.

anet said gw2 didnt have the ultimate group (note the word group, not zerg) and its something that gw2 needs. and look at how they always say “thats just open world” when they talk about the wyvern.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

We have these and more in-game since launch (2+ years). They are “playable” tactics. Heck, you can even have dedicaded healers (cleric ele’s camping water) in the group. Thing is though you will be far far better with the current meta. (Stacking to 1 spot, freeze & nuke) It is the case in every single dungeon.

Is that a fault though with the combat mechanics or the encounter mechanics?

Look at AC, The Lover’s. They have a mechanic where going closer to each other buffs them.

There’s two faults with this fight though: even though it’s the main mechanic, they don’t attempt to go close to each other nearly enough and; the buff isn’t powerful enough to prevent level 80’s just stack and smashing them down.

Suddenly make the main mechanic of that fight something you can’t ignore and you get a fight where all of you can’t stack in one spot. Control becomes more meaningful.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

As long as the whole game relies on dodge roll to avoid damage, and not mitigate it by any kind of buff, healers will never have a spot in meta, neither will tanks. Most of the bosses can one shot you, so what’s the point of having someone healing or tanking? Not to mention that water fields mess up might stacking/blinds etc…

+Also ranged dps is not viable because of no helping the group.

+DoT dps is not viable because of condi cap @25.

+Controll is not viable since you will mess the defiance removal proccess which is 99% job of thief.

Again, that’s down to the encounter mechanics, and not necessarily the combat mechanics (though conditions need reworking. I’ll agree on that). If you had an encounter where you had snipers on some unreachable balcony, suddenly ranged would be needed in a fight.

Also, you don’t need to have tanks and healers to be in the meta to have roles in a fight. That’s a limited view on what a ‘role’ is.

NoTrigger.8396:

Astralporing.1957:

Raids would be a major feature. They claim they have already announced all major features of HoT. Thus, it’s highly unlikely that Raids are coming.

fact is, if they are working on a raid, it probably wouldnt be ready when the expansion launches.

The question OP posted was about Raids being part of HoT. So, you seem to agree, that they won’t be, right?

I hope not. I did WoW for almost 10 years. I’m done with raiding, thank you.

I think the GW2-style raids will not have much in common with the imaginations and experiences of raids many people have.

Astralporing.1957:

NoTrigger.8396:

Astralporing.1957:

Raids would be a major feature. They claim they have already announced all major features of HoT. Thus, it’s highly unlikely that Raids are coming.

fact is, if they are working on a raid, it probably wouldnt be ready when the expansion launches.

The question OP posted was about Raids being part of HoT. So, you seem to agree, that they won’t be, right?

for me, HoT isnt only the launch of the expansion. its also what will come after launch.

Ralanost.8913:

I hope not. I did WoW for almost 10 years. I’m done with raiding, thank you.

raid content doesnt mean they will delete every other content in the game.

NoTrigger.8396:

Astralporing.1957:

NoTrigger.8396:

Astralporing.1957:

Raids would be a major feature. They claim they have already announced all major features of HoT. Thus, it’s highly unlikely that Raids are coming.

fact is, if they are working on a raid, it probably wouldnt be ready when the expansion launches.

The question OP posted was about Raids being part of HoT. So, you seem to agree, that they won’t be, right?

for me, HoT isnt only the launch of the expansion. its also what will come after launch.

Ralanost.8913:

I hope not. I did WoW for almost 10 years. I’m done with raiding, thank you.

raid content doesnt mean they will delete every other content in the game.

This game is mostly about vanity. I don’t want anything to drop in a 10+ man raid that doesn’t drop anywhere else because I will never be able to get it. I despise organised large group content. I have done it enough times to just not like it anymore.