Guild Wars 2

DragonflyDusk.6582:

Dead.5829:

If it costs t hem 100,000$ according to the reddit thread, I hope it brings in 10 times that in new players that don’t act like entitled brats.

As I said just a moment ago in another thread, “Entitlement” is the new “Toxicity”. All you are doing is purposely antagonizing.

The worst things I’ve seen reading these threads since the pre-purchase was announced hasn’t been from the complainers about the pre-purchase offers, it’s the people who launched in to assault mode against them and started telling them how they should feel and trying to shame them for differing opinions. Honestly, I’m seeing more rage coming from the side supposedly supporting the pre-purchase. This is getting more depressing as it goes.

I understand your grief over the whole thing.

However, saying that one side has the right to bash, be aggressive in their complaints and whines(yes, whines), and to express their opinions however they want to…….while telling the other side that they can’t do exactly the same thing……..well, that weakens your point. Significantly.

Imo, both sides need to ease up and try to be more intelligent with their complaints and responses. (Myself included, as I tend to enjoy stirring the pot…lol)

But asking for and/or expecting calm from a playerbase that includes a very large number of teens and very young ‘adults’, especially when the topic is a game, might be a bit too much to ask.

I am sure I will get burned for that comment……oh well……it is just my opinion.

Teon.5168:

DragonflyDusk.6582:

Dead.5829:

If it costs t hem 100,000$ according to the reddit thread, I hope it brings in 10 times that in new players that don’t act like entitled brats.

As I said just a moment ago in another thread, “Entitlement” is the new “Toxicity”. All you are doing is purposely antagonizing.

The worst things I’ve seen reading these threads since the pre-purchase was announced hasn’t been from the complainers about the pre-purchase offers, it’s the people who launched in to assault mode against them and started telling them how they should feel and trying to shame them for differing opinions. Honestly, I’m seeing more rage coming from the side supposedly supporting the pre-purchase. This is getting more depressing as it goes.

I understand your grief over the whole thing.

However, saying that one side has the right to bash, be aggressive in their complaints and whines(yes, whines), and to express their opinions however they want to…….while telling the other side that they can’t do exactly the same thing……..well, that weakens your point. Significantly.

I didn’t say they did. I noted I’m seeing more of it from one side, and “whining” is being thrown indiscriminately at anyone who has any sort of complaint. I’ve been in the middle watching this whole thing spiral in to an ugly cesspool.

Broom.2561:

Industry standard? For expansions? Really? Maybe for WoW, but WoW is not the industry.

If I look at the other MMO I play… Eve just had it’s 6-monthly expansion (free). But that’s a sub game, so I guess you don’t think it counts, even if most of us spend more on gems than we spend on subs. OK then. The Secret World (f2p) just had another issue for 960 funcom points…less than 10 Euros. SW:TOR (f2p with limitations) had an update in April and is announcing another… both free.

So yeah, I think ANet is a bit on the expensive side in comparison.

As to ‘entitlement’… that’s a stupid buzz word, which is currently misapplied all over the place. What you have here is a question of value for money, which is exacerbated by the fact that one of the main features of the new expansion, the Revenant class, is inaccessible for veterans (at least those who have not already paid $$ for extra character slots), unless they fork over another $10 on top of the expansion. Which is just bad marketing and bad PR.

Star Wars the Old Republic did infact just release a new content update for free, a month after their $50 expansion that brougt 2 zones, 4 dungeons and 2 raids, raised the level cap to 60 (trivializing all content designed for anyone under lvl 55 btw. no more fun pve dailies). this new pack ‘Rise of the Emperor’ introduced one zone you could play through once during a story line, and then the same zone gets ‘destroyed’ and becomes a dialy hub with No Combat. Your daily involves taking pictures. I would not put too much value in SWtoR’s ‘free’ content updates as each time a game like that raises their level cap it serves to herd players into the same spot to create the illusion that there is a healthy population.

WoW is the Gold Standard for the industry, like it or not.

And as to buzzwords: the biggest buzzword of all buzzwords is ‘buzzword’. – the concept of Entitlement is as old as egotism, in fact entitlement is egotism.

DragonflyDusk.6582:

Teon.5168:

DragonflyDusk.6582:

Dead.5829:

If it costs t hem 100,000$ according to the reddit thread, I hope it brings in 10 times that in new players that don’t act like entitled brats.

As I said just a moment ago in another thread, “Entitlement” is the new “Toxicity”. All you are doing is purposely antagonizing.

The worst things I’ve seen reading these threads since the pre-purchase was announced hasn’t been from the complainers about the pre-purchase offers, it’s the people who launched in to assault mode against them and started telling them how they should feel and trying to shame them for differing opinions. Honestly, I’m seeing more rage coming from the side supposedly supporting the pre-purchase. This is getting more depressing as it goes.

I understand your grief over the whole thing.

However, saying that one side has the right to bash, be aggressive in their complaints and whines(yes, whines), and to express their opinions however they want to…….while telling the other side that they can’t do exactly the same thing……..well, that weakens your point. Significantly.

I didn’t say they did. I noted I’m seeing more of it from one side, and “whining” is being thrown indiscriminately at anyone who has any sort of complaint. I’ve been in the middle watching this whole thing spiral in to an ugly cesspool.

And complainers have also been throwing around the white knight and fanboy comments in the same sort of fashion.

And yea, all it has become is an ugly cesspool with very few redeeming qualities whatsoever.

For what Anet is actualy doing…
I’am sorry, but they only deserve to loose even more.
And i hope there is not gonna be too much blind fanboys to give them SO much money for (only) that.

imho, HOT dont worth more than 20$ ( _And even at that price its too expensive for the very poor work they are “doing” for the game since 3years )

I’m going to buy HoT once anet releases all the details, I want to know what exactly am I paying for
Do I have to remake a new account in order to play HoT? Is it two seperate codes, one for Gw2 the other for HoT to upgrade my current existing GW2? How much content is the actual HoT & do we get housing this time?
When in kitten is the release date because NOONE gives a flying kitten about HoT betas anymore.

Greymelken.1892:

Broom.2561:

Industry standard? For expansions? Really? Maybe for WoW, but WoW is not the industry.

If I look at the other MMO I play… Eve just had it’s 6-monthly expansion (free). But that’s a sub game, so I guess you don’t think it counts, even if most of us spend more on gems than we spend on subs. OK then. The Secret World (f2p) just had another issue for 960 funcom points…less than 10 Euros. SW:TOR (f2p with limitations) had an update in April and is announcing another… both free.

So yeah, I think ANet is a bit on the expensive side in comparison.

As to ‘entitlement’… that’s a stupid buzz word, which is currently misapplied all over the place. What you have here is a question of value for money, which is exacerbated by the fact that one of the main features of the new expansion, the Revenant class, is inaccessible for veterans (at least those who have not already paid $$ for extra character slots), unless they fork over another $10 on top of the expansion. Which is just bad marketing and bad PR.

Star Wars the Old Republic did infact just release a new content update for free, a month after their $50 expansion that brougt 2 zones, 4 dungeons and 2 raids, raised the level cap to 60 (trivializing all content designed for anyone under lvl 55 btw. no more fun pve dailies). this new pack ‘Rise of the Emperor’ introduced one zone you could play through once during a story line, and then the same zone gets ‘destroyed’ and becomes a dialy hub with No Combat. Your daily involves taking pictures. I would not put too much value in SWtoR’s ‘free’ content updates as each time a game like that raises their level cap it serves to herd players into the same spot to create the illusion that there is a healthy population.

WoW is the Gold Standard for the industry, like it or not.

And as to buzzwords: the biggest buzzword of all buzzwords is ‘buzzword’. – the concept of Entitlement is as old as egotism, in fact entitlement is egotism.

huh?
from what i have seen the expansion shadow of revan cost 20 dollars, from the preorder.
and the next expansion hasnt been released yet.
do you mean the version update? which was just the next part in the story?

why are you spreading provably false information?

proof it was originally priced at 19.99 from time of prepurchase
http://www.mindofthegeek.com/2014/10/ckloock/shadow-revan-coming-star-wars-old-republic/
next free expansion which is not out/released yet and is free for subscribers
http://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20150615

Teon.5168:

DragonflyDusk.6582:

Teon.5168:

DragonflyDusk.6582:

Dead.5829:

If it costs t hem 100,000$ according to the reddit thread, I hope it brings in 10 times that in new players that don’t act like entitled brats.

As I said just a moment ago in another thread, “Entitlement” is the new “Toxicity”. All you are doing is purposely antagonizing.

The worst things I’ve seen reading these threads since the pre-purchase was announced hasn’t been from the complainers about the pre-purchase offers, it’s the people who launched in to assault mode against them and started telling them how they should feel and trying to shame them for differing opinions. Honestly, I’m seeing more rage coming from the side supposedly supporting the pre-purchase. This is getting more depressing as it goes.

I understand your grief over the whole thing.

However, saying that one side has the right to bash, be aggressive in their complaints and whines(yes, whines), and to express their opinions however they want to…….while telling the other side that they can’t do exactly the same thing……..well, that weakens your point. Significantly.

I didn’t say they did. I noted I’m seeing more of it from one side, and “whining” is being thrown indiscriminately at anyone who has any sort of complaint. I’ve been in the middle watching this whole thing spiral in to an ugly cesspool.

And complainers have also been throwing around the white knight and fanboy comments in the same sort of fashion.

And yea, all it has become is an ugly cesspool with very few redeeming qualities whatsoever.

In the same fashion? Yes. In the same doses? Not as much. Again, watching from the sidelines, I’m seeing a more venom coming from supporting side, and I certainly didn’t expect that. That’s not a testament to either side’s points, just the attitude coming out. Neither side should be doing it at all, I’m just not used to seeing it so heavy from people that are in support of Arenanet in whatever is it they have done. And now people on both sides that were previously level-headed are getting antsy. I feel like I’ve fallen down the rabbit hole and everyone’s mad here.

phys.7689:

Greymelken.1892:

Broom.2561:

Industry standard? For expansions? Really? Maybe for WoW, but WoW is not the industry.

If I look at the other MMO I play… Eve just had it’s 6-monthly expansion (free). But that’s a sub game, so I guess you don’t think it counts, even if most of us spend more on gems than we spend on subs. OK then. The Secret World (f2p) just had another issue for 960 funcom points…less than 10 Euros. SW:TOR (f2p with limitations) had an update in April and is announcing another… both free.

So yeah, I think ANet is a bit on the expensive side in comparison.

As to ‘entitlement’… that’s a stupid buzz word, which is currently misapplied all over the place. What you have here is a question of value for money, which is exacerbated by the fact that one of the main features of the new expansion, the Revenant class, is inaccessible for veterans (at least those who have not already paid $$ for extra character slots), unless they fork over another $10 on top of the expansion. Which is just bad marketing and bad PR.

Star Wars the Old Republic did infact just release a new content update for free, a month after their $50 expansion that brougt 2 zones, 4 dungeons and 2 raids, raised the level cap to 60 (trivializing all content designed for anyone under lvl 55 btw. no more fun pve dailies). this new pack ‘Rise of the Emperor’ introduced one zone you could play through once during a story line, and then the same zone gets ‘destroyed’ and becomes a dialy hub with No Combat. Your daily involves taking pictures. I would not put too much value in SWtoR’s ‘free’ content updates as each time a game like that raises their level cap it serves to herd players into the same spot to create the illusion that there is a healthy population.

WoW is the Gold Standard for the industry, like it or not.

And as to buzzwords: the biggest buzzword of all buzzwords is ‘buzzword’. – the concept of Entitlement is as old as egotism, in fact entitlement is egotism.

huh?
from what i have seen the expansion shadow of revan cost 20 dollars, from the preorder.
and the next expansion hasnt been released yet.
do you mean the version update? which was just the next part in the story?

why are you spreading provably false information?

proof it was originally priced at 19.99 from time of prepurchase
http://www.mindofthegeek.com/2014/10/ckloock/shadow-revan-coming-star-wars-old-republic/
next free expansion which is not out/released yet and is free for subscribers
http://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20150615

If it was only $20 I am indeed mistaken, and if that upsets you, I apologise. I thought it was $50, I dont really look at my statements, I new I had to pay if I wanted to play, and I knew how much I enjoyed playing, so the price wasnt anything that weighed so heavily on my mind that I could recall what I had spent. I pressed the shiny pay now button, sue me. – I can afford it. the point is – The content that they offer hardly compares to the content Gw2 offers, and any time a game raises its level cap and doesent downlevel you for lower leveled content, thus trivializing the content – that reduces the scope of the game.

Greymelken.1892:

phys.7689:

Greymelken.1892:

Broom.2561:

Industry standard? For expansions? Really? Maybe for WoW, but WoW is not the industry.

If I look at the other MMO I play… Eve just had it’s 6-monthly expansion (free). But that’s a sub game, so I guess you don’t think it counts, even if most of us spend more on gems than we spend on subs. OK then. The Secret World (f2p) just had another issue for 960 funcom points…less than 10 Euros. SW:TOR (f2p with limitations) had an update in April and is announcing another… both free.

So yeah, I think ANet is a bit on the expensive side in comparison.

As to ‘entitlement’… that’s a stupid buzz word, which is currently misapplied all over the place. What you have here is a question of value for money, which is exacerbated by the fact that one of the main features of the new expansion, the Revenant class, is inaccessible for veterans (at least those who have not already paid $$ for extra character slots), unless they fork over another $10 on top of the expansion. Which is just bad marketing and bad PR.

Star Wars the Old Republic did infact just release a new content update for free, a month after their $50 expansion that brougt 2 zones, 4 dungeons and 2 raids, raised the level cap to 60 (trivializing all content designed for anyone under lvl 55 btw. no more fun pve dailies). this new pack ‘Rise of the Emperor’ introduced one zone you could play through once during a story line, and then the same zone gets ‘destroyed’ and becomes a dialy hub with No Combat. Your daily involves taking pictures. I would not put too much value in SWtoR’s ‘free’ content updates as each time a game like that raises their level cap it serves to herd players into the same spot to create the illusion that there is a healthy population.

WoW is the Gold Standard for the industry, like it or not.

And as to buzzwords: the biggest buzzword of all buzzwords is ‘buzzword’. – the concept of Entitlement is as old as egotism, in fact entitlement is egotism.

huh?
from what i have seen the expansion shadow of revan cost 20 dollars, from the preorder.
and the next expansion hasnt been released yet.
do you mean the version update? which was just the next part in the story?

why are you spreading provably false information?

proof it was originally priced at 19.99 from time of prepurchase
http://www.mindofthegeek.com/2014/10/ckloock/shadow-revan-coming-star-wars-old-republic/
next free expansion which is not out/released yet and is free for subscribers
http://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20150615

If it was only $20 I am indeed mistaken, and if that upsets you, I apologise. I thought it was $50, I dont really look at my statements, I new I had to pay if I wanted to play, and I knew how much I enjoyed playing, so the price wasnt anything that weighed so heavily on my mind that I could recall what I had spent. I pressed the shiny pay now button, sue me. – I can afford it. the point is – The content that they offer hardly compares to the content Gw2 offers, and any time a game raises its level cap and doesent downlevel you for lower leveled content, thus trivializing the content – that reduces the scope of the game.

i understand that you didnt look at it logically, but if we actually look at the numbers that 20 dollars brings in comparison to what gw2 is adding gw2 isnt coming out as favorably as you assumed (without actually thinking about it)

lets double what swtor shadow of revan gives, and call it a 40 dollar expansion and then compare it to what GW2 has.

2 zones x2 = 4 zones = more than we know about what we are getting from Hot, my assumption is it will be similar,
4 dungeons x2 = 8 dungeons, we have only had 8 dungeons in 3 years, so i assume the dungeon community would go nuts with joy if this happened
2 raids x 2 = 4 raids, we have had zero, i personally dont do large scale content but 4 raids is not insubstantial
5 new levelsx2 would be 10 new levels, this is about equal to specializations

basically if they doubled revans price and content it would be inline (better for some people) with what we currently know about gw2 expansion. but it would be 10 dollars less.

now im not saying swtor is the greatest thing in the world, im just pointing out that content comparison compared to price its coming out to be suggest that maybe the price point for gw2 should have been 40 in order to compare in value.

anyhow, no need to apologize, i just want people to be operating off the facts here when they make analysis

Teon.5168:

I too can pull random figures out of my rear end.

My gut reaction was to call this a $1 million dollar error, but after looking at it a bit more I realized I was underestimating it.

NCSoft was expecting A.Net to bring in around $100 million from sales of the expansion before the end of the year. Using that as a baseline, marketing errors of this magnitude (and yes, this is a serious marketing error) can easily knock 2-3% off of sales on the margins through a combination of bad press and negative consumer sentiment. When you’re selling on that scale even a small percentage blip on the margin adds up to a huge amount of money.

Seeing this unfold has really driven home the value of proper market segmentation and advertising. Textbook marketing would say they need to move quickly to take control of the situation – the stunned silence isn’t helping.

I dunno man, putting a couple million dollar price tag on this boondoggle seems pretty conservative.

One thing that cant be denied about SWtoR updates though is that they trivialize old content. I liked Cerka Dailies, Section X, Black Hole, etc. I liked the older dungeon/flashpoints. now that I am level 6o I can just tap my auto attack aoe and obliterate everything on the screen, it isnt fun at all. If I want to do ‘modern’ dailies I have Ziost, and beyond a few crashed probes there is nothing to fight on Ziost, the dailies are.. taking pictures. the only zone worth doing for the enjoyment of playing a game that requires thoughtful user input is Yavin, but with only 1 zone to play in it gets stale fast.

Not so with GW2. I can still have fun playing in a zone I outleveled 60 level-ups ago, I can play beside a friend who isnt as high level as me and it wont just be a carry as he watches me eat everything before he can even swing on it. Down-leveling is brilliant, and probably the single feature that keeps me interested in the game. The value of GW2 for me is that the entire world of Tyria is my playground, and not just Orr and Maguma Wastes.

Ensign.2189:

Teon.5168:

I too can pull random figures out of my rear end.

My gut reaction was to call this a $1 million dollar error, but after looking at it a bit more I realized I was underestimating it.

NCSoft was expecting A.Net to bring in around $100 million from sales of the expansion before the end of the year. Using that as a baseline, marketing errors of this magnitude (and yes, this is a serious marketing error) can easily knock 2-3% off of sales on the margins through a combination of bad press and negative consumer sentiment. When you’re selling on that scale even a small percentage blip on the margin adds up to a huge amount of money.

Seeing this unfold has really driven home the value of proper market segmentation and advertising. Textbook marketing would say they need to move quickly to take control of the situation – the stunned silence isn’t helping.

I dunno man, putting a couple million dollar price tag on this boondoggle seems pretty conservative.

I respectfully submit that your speculation is omitting one very possible fact about this particular kind of outrage: For every person tabbing out to come to a forum and post about their consternation there are scores of people who are so thorougly enjoying the game and happily anticipating the expansion that it doesent even occur to them to tab out and contribute to the discussion either way.

If out of 6 million people, 3000 of them are upset, where are the opinions of everyone else?

And out of X people on a silly reddit that pledge they will not buy HoT, how many of them are going to buy it anyway?

In time, the numbers will tell the story.

Baldrick.8967:

Sube Dai.8496:

An extra character slot would be nice. But I seriously don’t care.

I can’t believe how much people will complain about 10-20 bucks.

I love this sort of opinion, it shows how companies get away with overpricing products that people like this comment then buy, regardless of what others perceive as proper value.

I’ll happily sell you a gobstopper for $24.99 instead of $0.99. After all, what’s 10 or 20 bucks, right? PM your address, I’ll happily sell you and all the others who have that opinion anything you want at 10-20 bucks over what I can get it delivered to you for.

This is pretty good hyperbole you have here.

Ten bucks on a 1 dollar sale is a 1000% increase. Ten bucks on a four dollar sale is 20 percent. But people are still being taken on a ride, because they’re looking at an expansion for an MMO is a boxed game that you pay one price for what’s in the box. And as long as people look at that, well.

I bought the original Guild Wars 2 box. I bought it for $200 because that’s what the collectors edition sells for in Australia. For that price, if Anet had added nothing, fixed nothing, changed nothing…I’d have been done with the game a year ago, maybe more. That means for my 200 dollars, I’d have played the game for a year, which isn’t really that bad anyway if you enjoy it.

However, Anet DID add things. They added Fractals. They added EoTM. They added 3 zones. They added the Living Story Season 1 (which they took away). They added certain mini games. They added jumping puzzles. And that was all still for that same $200.

People are so worried about spending an extra $10 on a box for a game based only on what they’re buying at launch. But when you’re buying an MMO you’re not really buying a product, you’re buying access to an amusement park.

I’m confident Anet is going to keep adding things over the next year or two, adding more and more value to my purchase. Unlike WoW and Final Fantasy, the other two largest MMOs out there, they’re not charging me $15 a month for that privilege. They’re just giving it to me.

So then I ask myself, if the price of Guild Wars 2 was raised by $10 originally, would I still have gotten my money’s worth. The answer is yes. Yes, even at 10% more I’d have gotten my money’s worth.

I see no reason to believe that won’t happen again.

It’s such a simple fix. Tell the customers what you’re asking us to buy. If it’s worth the amount asked, people will stop complaining overall. Right now, this reads like a Slipping Jimmy scam.

We’re not talking stuff to be added for the future. We’re talking about stuff to be added in the expansion. Commenting about future stuff is beyond the pale.

That’s like saying future patches that will change stuff is coming soon. What stuff? When? That’s the issue and a big no-brainer.

Greymelken.1892:

If out of 6 million people, 3000 of them are upset, where are the opinions of everyone else?

And out of X people on a silly reddit that pledge they will not buy HoT, how many of them are going to buy it anyway?

In time, the numbers will tell the story.

Well half quit and never came back.

Greymelken.1892:

I respectfully submit that your speculation is omitting one very possible fact about this particular kind of outrage: For every person tabbing out to come to a forum and post about their consternation there are scores of people who are so thorougly enjoying the game and happily anticipating the expansion that it doesent even occur to them to tab out and contribute to the discussion either way.

I assume that well over 95% of the player base is not going to care about any of this at all.

It doesn’t personally affect me; I’m very likely to buy HoT either way, whether they fix the snafu or not, and small differences in the price point or marketing materials are not going to make a difference for me – I’m watching and discussing and making popcorn to this because I’m a product management nerd and this is fascinating to me. I am not the marginal consumer.

For the marginal consumer this is a real mess. Those players that bought the game 2 years ago, hear about and expansion and are interested, but see a kittenstorm are the ones they lose. People genuinely on the fence are lost, potential players that read feedback and reviews are lost.

I think once all is said and done a lot of the people complaining about this here will buy anyway – people posting on official forums are not marginal consumers, by in large, and are just going through some equivalent of the stages of grief. It’s the people who aren’t posting, and won’t ever post, where the ex-ante expected losses are coming from.

Put me on the list of people who is not buying the expansion until we see some changes.

I had in mind that the expansion would be around $40 and come with a free character slot so that we could play the new expansion without having to shell out more or delete a character.

$50 is too much for what they’ve shown and for them to not include a character slot is pretty much a deal breaker.

Vayne.8563:

Baldrick.8967:

Sube Dai.8496:

An extra character slot would be nice. But I seriously don’t care.

I can’t believe how much people will complain about 10-20 bucks.

I love this sort of opinion, it shows how companies get away with overpricing products that people like this comment then buy, regardless of what others perceive as proper value.

I’ll happily sell you a gobstopper for $24.99 instead of $0.99. After all, what’s 10 or 20 bucks, right? PM your address, I’ll happily sell you and all the others who have that opinion anything you want at 10-20 bucks over what I can get it delivered to you for.

This is pretty good hyperbole you have here.

Ten bucks on a 1 dollar sale is a 1000% increase. Ten bucks on a four dollar sale is 20 percent. But people are still being taken on a ride, because they’re looking at an expansion for an MMO is a boxed game that you pay one price for what’s in the box. And as long as people look at that, well.

I bought the original Guild Wars 2 box. I bought it for $200 because that’s what the collectors edition sells for in Australia. For that price, if Anet had added nothing, fixed nothing, changed nothing…I’d have been done with the game a year ago, maybe more. That means for my 200 dollars, I’d have played the game for a year, which isn’t really that bad anyway if you enjoy it.

However, Anet DID add things. They added Fractals. They added EoTM. They added 3 zones. They added the Living Story Season 1 (which they took away). They added certain mini games. They added jumping puzzles. And that was all still for that same $200.

People are so worried about spending an extra $10 on a box for a game based only on what they’re buying at launch. But when you’re buying an MMO you’re not really buying a product, you’re buying access to an amusement park.

I’m confident Anet is going to keep adding things over the next year or two, adding more and more value to my purchase. Unlike WoW and Final Fantasy, the other two largest MMOs out there, they’re not charging me $15 a month for that privilege. They’re just giving it to me.

So then I ask myself, if the price of Guild Wars 2 was raised by $10 originally, would I still have gotten my money’s worth. The answer is yes. Yes, even at 10% more I’d have gotten my money’s worth.

I see no reason to believe that won’t happen again.

price points are sometimes like that. 20% too much and people are not interested.

But mostly I think people don’t like the idea of what’s presented

A high price with a low amount of starting content (it seems)
A hidden extra fee to use the product for many users (charachter slot)
A change in plan that caused them to buy/promote to friends based on imcorrect info
Not being offered the same product for the same money based on your history with the company

One of these things alone may not have caused such Big backlash, but all at once?

In the end I think the value for what is being offered right now doesn’t feel.high to people and all the misteps makes people more leary with purchases

I think the price is fine, but I think that the character slot should be on the basic version. Also, it wouldn’t kill to get some transmutation crystals on the deluxe version.

Ensign.2189:

Greymelken.1892:

I respectfully submit that your speculation is omitting one very possible fact about this particular kind of outrage: For every person tabbing out to come to a forum and post about their consternation there are scores of people who are so thorougly enjoying the game and happily anticipating the expansion that it doesent even occur to them to tab out and contribute to the discussion either way.

I assume that well over 95% of the player base is not going to care about any of this at all.

It doesn’t personally affect me; I’m very likely to buy HoT either way, whether they fix the snafu or not, and small differences in the price point or marketing materials are not going to make a difference for me – I’m watching and discussing and making popcorn to this because I’m a product management nerd and this is fascinating to me. I am not the marginal consumer.

For the marginal consumer this is a real mess. Those players that bought the game 2 years ago, hear about and expansion and are interested, but see a kittenstorm are the ones they lose. People genuinely on the fence are lost, potential players that read feedback and reviews are lost.

I think once all is said and done a lot of the people complaining about this here will buy anyway – people posting on official forums are not marginal consumers, by in large, and are just going through some equivalent of the stages of grief. It’s the people who aren’t posting, and won’t ever post, where the ex-ante expected losses are coming from.

One minor point you neglected to mention that will impact the results, I don’t have to buy HoT to play GW2. Posters like myself will continue to post and play the game in spite of the expansion.

There was a huge freak-out when ascended gear was introduced. People were predicting that so many players would leave the game it would die. But it didn’t. I assume this too shall pass and the game will go on.

But many people did leave, didn’t they? Dying is something else. But they did merge servers for a reason too. . . .

They’ll always be a loyal fan base who will stay until the game goes offline, but let’s not be dismissive about what we’re talking about.

That kind of attitude did kill more than a few MMOs in the past.

Wolfey.3407:

I’m really amused over people complaining over $10 USD
please tell me what you’re going to do with that $10?

Going to go on Steam and buy 2-3 games that you will only play for a week before forgetting about them?

Going to go to starbucks and buy 2 cups of coffee?

Going to the movies and only have 1 lrg popcorn?

If giving away your money for no value is how you operate, send me $10.

(laugh) Funny, I thought something similar when I read that too.

Celtic Lady.3729:

There was a huge freak-out when ascended gear was introduced. People were predicting that so many players would leave the game it would die. But it didn’t. I assume this too shall pass and the game will go on.

Yes the game would probably go on in some form. Good bye and good luck guys! It has been a fun 10 years between GW1 and GW2!

Jake.6518:

Already bought it and couldn’t be more excited about it.

People are all lying claiming that they won’t buy it and that everyone in their 250 person guild won’t buy it.. People are so sensitive and overreact to every little thing. I was hoping for 30-40 bucks tops too but 50 really isn’t bad at all.

Regular content updates since launch for free, an immense amount of new content for HoT and THIS GAME DOESN’T HAVE A MONTHLY FEE.

Everybody is more than entitled to their own opinions. However, I bought the game, I am incredibly excited to play it, and I’m sure I won’t be disappointed. Despite this argument and our differing opinions, I truly hope to see you all in game!

:D

Some people might. But I can count the amount of hours I’ve put into GW2 this year on one hand.

So while I am excited for the expansion I’m not exactly feeling an urgent need to play the game and I can wait as long as I need to to pay a price that I feel is appropriate.

fellyn.5083:

Jake.6518:

Already bought it and couldn’t be more excited about it.

People are all lying claiming that they won’t buy it and that everyone in their 250 person guild won’t buy it.. People are so sensitive and overreact to every little thing. I was hoping for 30-40 bucks tops too but 50 really isn’t bad at all.

Regular content updates since launch for free, an immense amount of new content for HoT and THIS GAME DOESN’T HAVE A MONTHLY FEE.

Everybody is more than entitled to their own opinions. However, I bought the game, I am incredibly excited to play it, and I’m sure I won’t be disappointed. Despite this argument and our differing opinions, I truly hope to see you all in game!

:D

Some people might. But I can count the amount of hours I’ve put into GW2 this year on one hand.

So while I am excited for the expansion I’m not exactly feeling an urgent need to play the game and I can wait as long as I need to to pay a price that I feel is appropriate.

Nothing wrong with that approach. I’m confident in the value and purchased already. There will be many others that do the same as you – and me.

Junkpile.7439:

I buy HoT. Some people pay over 50€ games like witcher 3 and they won’t even play it over 6k hours.

The Witcher 3 is a masterpiece of a game in just about every way. From a story telling perspective to the game play and how the world is designed and how you interact with it and it’s technical aspects.

Besides that a big difference between The Witcher 3 and GW2 is that GW2 is an mmo which is designed to suck up as much of your time and money as possible. The Witcher is designed to deliver a story that has a definite end. Unlike mmos.

To say the witcher 3 is not worth the price is to say that you do not enjoy video games.

fellyn.5083:

Junkpile.7439:

I buy HoT. Some people pay over 50€ games like witcher 3 and they won’t even play it over 6k hours.

The Witcher 3 is a masterpiece of a game in just about every way. From a story telling perspective to the game play and how the world is designed and how you interact with it and it’s technical aspects.

Besides that a big difference between The Witcher 3 and GW2 is that GW2 is an mmo which is designed to suck up as much of your time and money as possible. The Witcher is designed to deliver a story that has a definite end. Unlike mmos.

To say the witcher 3 is not worth the price is to say that you do not enjoy video games.

My only complaint with the Witcher 3 is the combat system, even though i despise Shadows of Mordor, its combat was really nice and responsive. Otherwise for the money Witcher 3 was a GREAT purchase.

As you said you cant compare standalone games to MMO’s as different expectations are held depending on the platform being argued.

Ugh what I hate the most about this forum is because people just go BLIND when they find something to complain (just complain and ignore everyone that isn’t complaining too),and also don’t speak the truth when you ask what they are complaining about.

Trust me,you guys are not complaining because the $50 pack doesnt offer a character slot.
I JUST REFUSE to accept the fact that you guys can do MAD because of a single character slot,or $10.

The forums are chaotic just because the expansion doesnt come with a character slot? really? can you guys just stop for a moment and notice how little this problem actually is? And how chaotic you guys are making the forums because of something so silly?

Can you guys at least be honest and admit that you are just jumping in the HoT-Price-Hate Bandwagon? Would be less embarrassing.

I think most people were expecting it to be $40 plus a slot. When neither happened the world imploded

Wolfey.3407:

I’m really amused over people complaining over $10 USD
please tell me what you’re going to do with that $10?

Going to go on Steam and buy 2-3 games that you will only play for a week before forgetting about them?

Going to go to starbucks and buy 2 cups of coffee?

Going to the movies and only have 1 lrg popcorn?

You buy games on Steam for value and worth: correct?
You go to the movies and have 1 large popcorn for value and worth: correct?

This is not about pricing, this is about value and worth

DarkSyze.8627:

Wolfey.3407:

I’m really amused over people complaining over $10 USD
please tell me what you’re going to do with that $10?

Going to go on Steam and buy 2-3 games that you will only play for a week before forgetting about them?

Going to go to starbucks and buy 2 cups of coffee?

Going to the movies and only have 1 lrg popcorn?

You buy games on Steam for value and worth: correct?
You go to the movies and have 1 large popcorn for value and worth: correct?

This is not about pricing, this is about value and worth

You’re absolutely right. It comes down to value and worth. 100 true. Value and worth.

And so far, Anet has not shown that the game is worth $50 to a lot of people, which is absolutely not the same as showing the game is not worth $50. It’s just that there’s so much info we don’t yet have.

No one, not one single person, can honestly say the game isn’t worth $50. All anyone can honestly say is that we don’t have enough information to know.

Which means, for some people they’ve seen enough of value, like me and for some people they haven’t seen enough of value…yet.

That means those people are not obligated to preorder the game and they can wait for more information. What those people can’t say is the game isn’t worth it, because they don’t know.

@Vayne of course they can. Something is only worth what it can be sold for.

At $50 Anet will sell X of the expansion
At $30 Anet will sell Y of the expansion

The market determines which is is a greater return X or Y

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Vayne of course they can. Something is only worth what it can be sold for.

At $50 Anet will sell X of the expansion
At $30 Anet will sell Y of the expansion

The market determines which is is a greater return X or Y

I’m not saying you’re wrong but it’s literally 20 bucks dividing you between 3 more years (I assume) of content and making vilians out of the company that has brought you the amazingness that is gw2.

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Vayne of course they can. Something is only worth what it can be sold for.

At $50 Anet will sell X of the expansion
At $30 Anet will sell Y of the expansion

The market determines which is is a greater return X or Y

That has nothing to do with what I said. What I said was no one can say, at this point, without knowing everything we’re getting, that something won’t be worth it to them. They can GUESS that it won’t be worth it. They won’t know until they have more info. There isn’t enough info out.

Saying something isn’t worth it to me without having the info is more silly to me than anything is worth it. As the game adds more info, we know more and more and some people will see something that absolutely makes it worth it. But those that haven’t seen everything, who don’t know what else is coming, can’t yet say it’s not worth it.

If you told people tomorrow it had 10,000 hours of playtime in it, some people who said it wasn’t worth it today would say it was worth it.

That’s not to say that more people won’t buy it at $30 than $50. That’s a no brainer. But that has nothing to do with that I’ve said.

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Vayne of course they can. Something is only worth what it can be sold for.

At $50 Anet will sell X of the expansion
At $30 Anet will sell Y of the expansion

The market determines which is is a greater return X or Y

That has nothing to do with what I said. What I said was no one can say, at this point, without knowing everything we’re getting, that something won’t be worth it to them. They can GUESS that it won’t be worth it. They won’t know until they have more info. There isn’t enough info out.

Saying something isn’t worth it to me without having the info is more silly to me than anything is worth it. As the game adds more info, we know more and more and some people will see something that absolutely makes it worth it. But those that haven’t seen everything, who don’t know what else is coming, can’t yet say it’s not worth it.

If you told people tomorrow it had 10,000 hours of playtime in it, some people who said it wasn’t worth it today would say it was worth it.

That’s not to say that more people won’t buy it at $30 than $50. That’s a no brainer. But that has nothing to do with that I’ve said.

My point is that a consumer decides what they will and won’t pay for. That is attributing value to something, it’s done with every purchase. At $50 some will decide it’s worth it some won’t neither is wrong.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Vayne of course they can. Something is only worth what it can be sold for.

At $50 Anet will sell X of the expansion
At $30 Anet will sell Y of the expansion

The market determines which is is a greater return X or Y

That has nothing to do with what I said. What I said was no one can say, at this point, without knowing everything we’re getting, that something won’t be worth it to them. They can GUESS that it won’t be worth it. They won’t know until they have more info. There isn’t enough info out.

Saying something isn’t worth it to me without having the info is more silly to me than anything is worth it. As the game adds more info, we know more and more and some people will see something that absolutely makes it worth it. But those that haven’t seen everything, who don’t know what else is coming, can’t yet say it’s not worth it.

If you told people tomorrow it had 10,000 hours of playtime in it, some people who said it wasn’t worth it today would say it was worth it.

That’s not to say that more people won’t buy it at $30 than $50. That’s a no brainer. But that has nothing to do with that I’ve said.

My point is that a consumer decides what they will and won’t pay for. That is attributing value to something, it’s done with every purchase. At $50 some will decide it’s worth it some won’t neither is wrong.

I agree with you. The consumer decides what they will and won’t pay for. And that means the consumer, before they say they will or won’t pay for it, should actually know what it is.

Without knowing how much content is in HoT, there’s no way to know if it’s worth it at this point but I’ve seen people say it’s not worth it. All they can really say is it’s not worth it from what I’ve seen so far, but it may become worth it next month. They don’t really know.

Vayne.8563:

I agree with you. The consumer decides what they will and won’t pay for. And that means the consumer, before they say they will or won’t pay for it, should actually know what it is.

Without knowing how much content is in HoT, there’s no way to know if it’s worth it at this point but I’ve seen people say it’s not worth it. All they can really say is it’s not worth it from what I’ve seen so far, but it may become worth it next month. They don’t really know.

It’s Anet’s responsibility to either convince or adjust not the buyer’s to bend or understand. Anet can’t convince me to buy HoT I’ve already decided these packages aren’t worth my money. Either they decide they don’t need my money or they adjust the offering.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

I agree with you. The consumer decides what they will and won’t pay for. And that means the consumer, before they say they will or won’t pay for it, should actually know what it is.

Without knowing how much content is in HoT, there’s no way to know if it’s worth it at this point but I’ve seen people say it’s not worth it. All they can really say is it’s not worth it from what I’ve seen so far, but it may become worth it next month. They don’t really know.

It’s Anet’s responsibility to either convince or adjust not the buyer’s to bend or understand. Anet can’t convince me to buy HoT I’ve already decided these packages aren’t worth my money. Either they decide they don’t need my money or they adjust the offering.

It’s not their responsibility it’s their option. And you know, it’s my option to convince a creationist that he’s wrong, but that doesn’t mean all the trying in the world is going to make a difference. If you have your mind up that you’re paying extra for it, there’s no way anyone can convince you otherwise and if I were Anet, I wouldn’t waste my time trying.

If Anet came out with a direct statement that said, we were always going to sell the expansion for $50 and we decided after that to include the core game for new users after the fact, would you believe them?

Edited by request

Gav.1425:

Those downvoters will buy, cry as they might.

You’re sad you don’t get a discount for owning basic? Your fallacy is in comparing the value of GW2 at release with its value today. Considering the recent $10 GW2 sale, the value of GW2 in 2015 is closer to that $10.

Should it come with a slot? Yes, no, maybe, whatever, but if the price of a slot makes you sour, you have bigger problems in life.

The true value of HOT is the new content. If we are getting the same amount of content as a season pack, then I’d be unhappy paying the price tag of a true expansion for what would just be a glorified live update patch.

Also, your buying the xpac supports the game you’ve put 1000s of hours into. You may get some of this new content for free (Tuesday’s patch), but your dollar supports it all the same.

Some of you people have 5k+ hours and you don’t want to drop $50 on the game you play every day?

Haters gonna hate.

Yes it MUST be hate !!

Vayne.8563:

It’s not their responsibility it’s their option. And you know, it’s my option to convince a bigot that he’s wrong, but that doesn’t mean all the trying in the world is going to make a difference. If you have your mind up that you’re paying extra for it, there’s no way anyone can convince you otherwise and if I were Anet, I wouldn’t waste my time trying.

If Anet came out with a direct statement that said, we were always going to sell the expansion for $50 and we decided after that to include the core game for new users after the fact, would you believe them?

You realize you sound as if you called me a bigot? I’d edit that if that wasn’t your intention. If it was then our exchanges will sound less formal from here on.

Vayne.8563:

DarkSyze.8627:

Wolfey.3407:

I’m really amused over people complaining over $10 USD
please tell me what you’re going to do with that $10?

Going to go on Steam and buy 2-3 games that you will only play for a week before forgetting about them?

Going to go to starbucks and buy 2 cups of coffee?

Going to the movies and only have 1 lrg popcorn?

You buy games on Steam for value and worth: correct?
You go to the movies and have 1 large popcorn for value and worth: correct?

This is not about pricing, this is about value and worth

You’re absolutely right. It comes down to value and worth. 100 true. Value and worth.

And so far, Anet has not shown that the game is worth $50 to a lot of people, which is absolutely not the same as showing the game is not worth $50. It’s just that there’s so much info we don’t yet have.

No one, not one single person, can honestly say the game isn’t worth $50. All anyone can honestly say is that we don’t have enough information to know.

Which means, for some people they’ve seen enough of value, like me and for some people they haven’t seen enough of value…yet.

That means those people are not obligated to preorder the game and they can wait for more information. What those people can’t say is the game isn’t worth it, because they don’t know.

You are completely wrong about whether or not someone can honestly say HoT is worth $50 at this point.

We know enough for someone to potentially make that judgement for them-self.

Someone enjoying GW2 for what it is but not enough to spend more money without the addition of an additional tier of gear to work towards.

Or someone who isnt willing to spend more money without getting open world dueling.

Or open world PvP.

Or an increased stat benefit on ascnded gear compared to exotic

Or the removal of ascended gear.

Or the removal of the gem-gold market.

Or the addition of Cantha.

Or a change to ascended so that all characters get BiS by max level.

Or a change in content design removing vertical map design.

There are plenty of things that we know arent going to happen or are that could be sufficient for someone to find HoT not worth $50 to them.

Heck all it would take is for someone to not care for the region its set in.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not their responsibility it’s their option. And you know, it’s my option to convince a bigot that he’s wrong, but that doesn’t mean all the trying in the world is going to make a difference. If you have your mind up that you’re paying extra for it, there’s no way anyone can convince you otherwise and if I were Anet, I wouldn’t waste my time trying.

If Anet came out with a direct statement that said, we were always going to sell the expansion for $50 and we decided after that to include the core game for new users after the fact, would you believe them?

You realize you sound as if you called me a bigot? I’d edit that if that wasn’t your intention. If it was then our exchanges will sound less formal from here on.

Of course it wasn’t my intention. It’s not even remotely implying that. I’m simply pointing out that if someone has made up their mind, then no amount of trying to convince them is going to work. I could have used a religious person and trying to argue them out of god, or a liberal or conservative, trying to change their mind. Once someone makes up their mind, it’s not always so easy to change it.

You’re saying it’s Anet’s responsibility to convince you. How would you suggest they do that. If they had always intended the price to be $50 and they didn’t raise it when they decided to include the base game for new purchasers, how could they convince you.

Assuming they didn’t tape that meeting. Would telling you that convince you? Would having sworn, notorized statements convince you? Would having everyone who was at the meeting confirm it convince you.

It’s obvious to me, that one decision was made at one point and it was rethought, which happens in business all the time. I don’t see anything startling or underhanded about it.

@Vayne that’s not why I’m not buying it. I’m not paying the same and getting what I consider less value for my money. I do feel $50 for LS S3 is overpriced and that is a factor as well, but I’ve been exceptionally calm about my reasons on the forums.

I’m perfectly happy to keep playing the game I paid for forever without touching the xpac and you can’t seem to figure out why. Read my posts, they’re fairly enlightening.

Greymelken.1892:

WoW is the Gold Standard for the industry, like it or not.

Must be why I’ve never played it then…. .

In all honesty, yes, WoW has been influential. It’s not, however, the be-all-and-end-all of MMO games. Especially nowadays, when MMO’s are a dime a dozen.

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Vayne that’s not why I’m not buying it. I’m not paying the same and getting what I consider less value for my money. I do feel $50 for LS S3 is overpriced and that is a factor as well, but I’ve been exceptionally calm about my reasons on the forums.

I’m perfectly happy to keep playing the game I paid for forever without touching the xpac and you can’t seem to figure out why. Read my posts, they’re fairly enlightening.

I can figure out why. But as they add content and more content and more content that you can’t access, that’ll be your loss. I’ll be playing it.

When my missis texted me that the HoT is in the gem store I drove my car like Schumacher to get home from work. I sat down with my bankcard in my hand and a 100 pounds smile on my face…

…and than I saw the price and the content…

I said something like:
“$ß÷פ;>í]€Í€Í??*¤!!!! You kittened piece of kittened kitty!!!”

(closest translation I can make…)

No I won’t buy the HoT for our accounts! If it stays like this 90% of my guild going to play something else… So there is no point for me to play this game any more…

Not buying it till pricing is “fixed”.

$50/… for the HoT without base game — maybe, its expansion after all and after seeing the full description it may be worth it for me (already have 2 accounts). Not having a version for the players already having it is a major omission.

And most of us did paid more than just base game (gems/time) so argument about having 3yr of play is void.

Sadly it looks like just another F2P like moneygrab with big price tag in front to grab whales and then dropping it for the rest of the masses…