Guild Wars 2

nesh.7234:

Galen Grey.4709:

but now get to throw all that away because some people seem to have issue with other people saving a little bit of money.

(I know that talking to white knights is as usual in vain but …)

$50 for HoT is just too much for the expansion which is in best just small content update compared to the others on the market. Especially so as I’m pretty sure that we will see a price drop (or real upgrade pack) soon after real release. This is just kitten whale money grab move, simple as that.

I know that talking to people who call those who dont agree with them names is generally in vain but

We have no clue how big or small HoT is. We just dont know how big or small it is compared to anything else. All we know is an overview of what features there. Case in point up until last week all we know is there are going to be guild halls in the last 3 days they explained that and they needed 8 blog posts to do it.

so its fairly odd to see how you think that charging a sub, which from your own words(and current market trends), is not more profitable, should somehow mean they can charge more for the game to recoup losses, that are apparently profits.

Because it’s based on cost per customer. with a sub game, they are guaranteed that pretty much every customer who pays $40 for the expansion will pay $60 more bucks over the next six months, and can plan accordingly. With the gem store, maybe some of those customers will pay that much, most will likely pay less, maybe a few more, but they can’t count on it as a part of the expansion’s cost.

If GW2 could do without box sales completely then why even release an expansion? Why not just release all the existing HoT content in a free update like the previous ones? Because they need the additional guaranteed income flow to cover the added development costs of this material. It’s a balancing act, they get some money from the gem store, they get some from boxes, they need both to justify large scale additions to the game.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Galen Grey.4709:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Galen Grey.4709:

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Galen Grey hello and welcome to the game. Your experience is not universal as the game generates revenue from the store.

Sorry I dont follow but thanks for the welcome even though its kinda 3 years later.

I meant the Vayne vs. Everyone game.

yeah sorry figured out your reply later… here is the proper reply:
.
Ok I follow now… what I linked is not something I said, its something another player said.
but even so Vayne didnt say everyone has said its possible to play the game without ever spending a single Gem, he said some have said so, you called it anecdotal I found you someone who made that claim. Even if he is the only person to ever refuse to pay a single gem and he’s not: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-much-have-you-spent-on-Gems/first
that still makes Vayne’s statement factual.
Edit: woke up and understood the post so edited to reply properly

Actually that’s not how proof works but I admire your spirit!

why do i even bother. everything anyone says or presents will always get dismissed.

yes I am sure people who claim they never bought a single gem in fact bought truck loads

and beyond that even though there is absolutely not a single piece of content in the game that requires a single gem to enjoy (and thats a fact) it is absolutely impossible to play the game without ever spending money on gems because that is not how proof works. as if you even need poof or there should be any debate whats so ever if it is possible to play Gw2 without spending a single cent.

I am sure you can provide so much proof to the contrary after all right?

Drayos.8759:

Guild wars do NOT make as much money from Gem Store as they do any other F2P/B2P because they of the fact they sacrificed that factor by putting NO Micro-transactions into it, No Cash shop Spam Releases of Outfits etc etc, Not having Mounts in the game and ALLOWING you to convert your gold to gems, They make up for the fact they allow players to choose to just never spend a Dime in the Gem Shop by their Expansion Releases.

they DO NEED the expansion release incomes, thats just factual… to claim they dont is stupid.

incorrect, they actually make more than most others

http://taugrim.com/2014/04/10/per-player-revenue-arpu-for-mmos/

and wtf are you talking about they release a new outfits/weapons/etc every two weeks, and have an extensive gem store offering

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store/historical
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store

the main reason for the expansion is more for marketing and project management.

Looks like Anet wont be defending themselves in this most recent onslaught of angery players.

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

At the time of my pre purchase I was still under the impression I’m buying the expansion, and everyone else regardless if new or old player, is doing the same. Their FAQ that I read around the time they released the initial HoT info had me believe that. The original game losing value is a given and I wasn’t at all worried or offended about the sales of it. But adding that product for “free” at the same price value with another product to people that are complete strangers to the series while charging the same to old veterans just for an upgrade, especially when it was a last moment decision, is a shady business practice, and makes me lose trust in Anet as a company. And as I said in my original post this is mainly on me for not reading up carefully, but I didn’t read up carefully because I never had a reason to not trust Anet so far. So yes, you’re right in the fact that it’s a perception issue, but customer care and trust is based exactly on that.

Why? Its quite normal not just for MMOs to offer the original game at a discount when they release an expansion. Like say FFXIV which is launching an expansion right now has a bundle too. $50 for the expansion, $60 expansion + core game. Is arenanet’s decision to instead of discounting the game to $10, they discounted it to $0 that makes this shady for you?

Everyone is simply buying the expansion, if the account you apply that expansion too doesnt have the game, it unlocks the core game for you. I dont really see whats shady about that! No one is being cheated out of anything.

incorrect information presented

ffxiv presents a 60 dollar new player option

but the upgrade for ffxiv is 40.00 not 50 dollars
if the expansion followed the same model, GW2 would not be in this mess at all.

1)people would have felt the price was better
2) they would not have had to change the faq or give refunds based on it
3) they would not be selling two different products to the same players based on if they played the game or not.
4)many of the people who want charachter slot for 50 would have been getting the same value.

so yeah your snafu in what FFXIV offers basically covers how a small difference in marketing makes a big difference in how your product is percieved. It also shows what is accepted when practice when it comes to expansions.

I stand corrected you’re right expansion alone is $39.99 For some wierd reason square enix decided putting the sound track first, then heavensward bundle and I mistakenly took the soundtrack price as the actual standard edition. my mistake.

but seriously you know we’re essentially arguing here that the mistake Anet did was being too nice, that they should have charged more for the core game rather then giving it away?

We’re also arguing the expansion should be $10 less though I’d also point out that with FXIV buying the expansion alone is not going to get you anything since it doesnt include any free subscription time so just to play it a single month you need to actually paying $55 so in truth it isnt really cheaper and thats without arguing all the other sub fees you’re going to have to pay.

Communication has always been their problem. Whether or not it was NCSoft’s suits or ArenaNet’s developers who made that decision, it was still a decision made for a good reason. We’ll never know the exact reasoning.

I’ve enjoyed my $60.00 Heroic Edition. I even dropped around $40.00 in gems for some cool-as-nips skins for my wife and I. I’m not asking for special privileges or perks for playing the game for almost a year. All I’m asking for is a little respect as a consumer. Give us that upgrade option, or at least an option that doesn’t have the base game, if possible.

phys.7689:

Ohoni.6057:

but the upgrade for ffxiv is 40.00 not 50 dollars
if the expansion followed the same model, GW2 would not be in this mess at all.

But then the following month you have to pay them $10 more dollars, so it’s back up to $50. Then the next month it’s $60, and so on. Honestly, trying to say that GW2 should have the same price for their expansion as a game with a monthly fee is just complete nonsense. At this point I kind of wish that they were offering a $40 version, BUT it comes with the same monthly fee attached as FF14, so if you buy that version, and stop paying them $10 each month, you’re locked out of the HoT content.

also, not to get distracted, but its irrelevant.
the fact is if they had priced it like FFXIV

• they still would have a package that is marketable and a good deal for newbies
• they would have not been giving different customers different service based on who they are
• they would not have had to refund players, or seem like they made a money grab
• would have less people complaining about content vs cost
• would not have this negative press and controversy

sub or not, they should have used a similar marketing strategy

but seriously this really makes me said, you’re probably absolutely right, not disagreeing with you but that doesnt change the fact on every single aspect (provided the content is there of course) Anets deal is better!

cheaper to get into, A LOT cheaper to play for years to come, cheaper for new players.

Even the core issue that Anet arent giving away a free slot with the basic version, thats less of a deal then not giving away a free month on all levels (its cheaper to buy the slot, slot is a one time cost, not everyone needs a slot absolutely everyone needs a sub)

yet time and time again people are saying we wish thats what Anet did? Super sad

Ohoni.6057:

subs have nothing to do with anything

the sub is a different aspect of the monetary policy.

what you pay a sub for, is not having an intrusive gem store, or a game designed around having a gem store.

Subs definitely do have everything to do with it IF you insist on comparing a subscription game to a B2P one. With FF14, they could charge very little on the expansion, because they know that they will definitely make $50 off of each current player off sub fees alone. .

to be honest I think sub games make a huge mistake charging a sub at all, I am sure they always loose a few players due to that barrier. Eve online has the better idea there giving content updates free of charge perhaps thats one reason why its the only mmo who doesnt really suffer dips in subs?

MrWubzy.3587:

Communication has always been their problem. Whether or not it was NCSoft’s suits or ArenaNet’s developers who made that decision, it was still a decision made for a good reason. We’ll never know the exact reasoning.

I’ve enjoyed my $60.00 Heroic Edition. I even dropped around $40.00 in gems for some cool-as-nips skins for my wife and I. I’m not asking for special privileges or perks for playing the game for almost a year. All I’m asking for is a little respect as a consumer. Give us that upgrade option, or at least an option that doesn’t have the base game, if possible.

what difference would that make, the base game is being given away free of charge. Sure they could do a separate package with no base game but it would still cost $50 how is that respecting their customers any better?

IF your issue if $50 is way too much thats a different story that has nothing to do with the fact they’re giving away the base game for free.

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Galen Grey.4709:

Elorna.5329:

At the time of my pre purchase I was still under the impression I’m buying the expansion, and everyone else regardless if new or old player, is doing the same. Their FAQ that I read around the time they released the initial HoT info had me believe that. The original game losing value is a given and I wasn’t at all worried or offended about the sales of it. But adding that product for “free” at the same price value with another product to people that are complete strangers to the series while charging the same to old veterans just for an upgrade, especially when it was a last moment decision, is a shady business practice, and makes me lose trust in Anet as a company. And as I said in my original post this is mainly on me for not reading up carefully, but I didn’t read up carefully because I never had a reason to not trust Anet so far. So yes, you’re right in the fact that it’s a perception issue, but customer care and trust is based exactly on that.

Why? Its quite normal not just for MMOs to offer the original game at a discount when they release an expansion. Like say FFXIV which is launching an expansion right now has a bundle too. $50 for the expansion, $60 expansion + core game. Is arenanet’s decision to instead of discounting the game to $10, they discounted it to $0 that makes this shady for you?

Everyone is simply buying the expansion, if the account you apply that expansion too doesnt have the game, it unlocks the core game for you. I dont really see whats shady about that! No one is being cheated out of anything.

incorrect information presented

ffxiv presents a 60 dollar new player option

but the upgrade for ffxiv is 40.00 not 50 dollars
if the expansion followed the same model, GW2 would not be in this mess at all.

1)people would have felt the price was better
2) they would not have had to change the faq or give refunds based on it
3) they would not be selling two different products to the same players based on if they played the game or not.
4)many of the people who want charachter slot for 50 would have been getting the same value.

so yeah your snafu in what FFXIV offers basically covers how a small difference in marketing makes a big difference in how your product is percieved. It also shows what is accepted when practice when it comes to expansions.

I stand corrected you’re right expansion alone is $39.99 For some wierd reason square enix decided putting the sound track first, then heavensward bundle and I mistakenly took the soundtrack price as the actual standard edition. my mistake.

but seriously you know we’re essentially arguing here that the mistake Anet did was being too nice, that they should have charged more for the core game rather then giving it away?

We’re also arguing the expansion should be $10 less though I’d also point out that with FXIV buying the expansion alone is not going to get you anything since it doesnt include any free subscription time so just to play it a single month you need to actually paying $55 so in truth it isnt really cheaper and thats without arguing all the other sub fees you’re going to have to pay.

no the mistake was not being too nice, the mistake was taking veteran players as a given.

they were not being nice to the people who already played the game, in fact they are being slightly mean to them. The expansion is more expensive than most other expansions, gives less over the initial copy, and they offer a free basic game to newcomers, but dont offer the same free basic game to veterans (or something of value)

nice to new players
mean to old players.

not surprisingly the older players are the ones who are upset.

stop bringing up sub fees. sub fees are not related to box game costs.

sub fees are parrallel to gem store offerings.

a person who is currently playing ffxiv is paying the sub fee regardless of whether he gets heavensward or not. It doesnt figure into whether the expansion itself is worth it or not.

let me give you an analogy

its like two different clubs
both charge a cover
one has a monthly fee, but you get free drinks/pretzels
one has no monthly fee but charges you for drinks/food

the monthly fee has nothing to do with the cover. truth is more money tends to be made from the clubs that charge for drinks and food. Yes, some people go there and buy no drinks and food, but reality is the club makes more.

the monthly fee is paying for a different aspect of the service is what it boils down to. People who opt in, believe that sub fee is a greater value than non sub fee, irrespective of any expansions.

Galen Grey.4709:

MrWubzy.3587:

Communication has always been their problem. Whether or not it was NCSoft’s suits or ArenaNet’s developers who made that decision, it was still a decision made for a good reason. We’ll never know the exact reasoning.

I’ve enjoyed my $60.00 Heroic Edition. I even dropped around $40.00 in gems for some cool-as-nips skins for my wife and I. I’m not asking for special privileges or perks for playing the game for almost a year. All I’m asking for is a little respect as a consumer. Give us that upgrade option, or at least an option that doesn’t have the base game, if possible.

what difference would that make, the base game is being given away free of charge. Sure they could do a separate package with no base game but it would still cost $50 how is that respecting their customers any better?

IF your issue if $50 is way too much thats a different story that has nothing to do with the fact they’re giving away the base game for free.

The fact is that no matter how you slice if I’m paying for a product I already own, no matter if it’s a free version of the current product or not. I already own Guild Wars 2 as a base, I don’t want to pay for another, even if it is bundled with an expansion pack. An upgrade option with Heart of Thorns only is what I’m asking for.

to be honest I think sub games make a huge mistake charging a sub at all, I am sure they always loose a few players due to that barrier.

Oh, certainly, I would never in a million years advocate for sub models in general, but if we’re specifically dealing with the pricing of an expansion, the guaranteed sub fees off all of those who do buy it can help offset the cost of the box itself.

they were not being nice to the people who already played the game, in fact they are being slightly mean to them. The expansion is more expensive than most other expansions, gives less over the initial copy, and they offer a free basic game to newcomers, but dont offer the same free basic game to veterans (or something of value)

nice to new players
mean to old players.

Not even remotely. It is not being “mean” to existing players to offer something nice to someone else. If a restaurant chooses to give some free food to the homeless it is not them “being mean” to their paying customers. They are taking a product with an arbitrary value (the original game) and offering it to new players. This does not in ANY way harm existing players, and in fact benefits them because these new players will help to fund the continued growth of the game. It is the players’ hissyfits that are “mean” in this scenario.

sub fees are parrallel to gem store offerings.

Only if players are required to buy $10 in gems each month to continue playing, otherwise they are two totally different things.

Galen Grey.4709:

phys.7689:

Ohoni.6057:

but the upgrade for ffxiv is 40.00 not 50 dollars
if the expansion followed the same model, GW2 would not be in this mess at all.

But then the following month you have to pay them $10 more dollars, so it’s back up to $50. Then the next month it’s $60, and so on. Honestly, trying to say that GW2 should have the same price for their expansion as a game with a monthly fee is just complete nonsense. At this point I kind of wish that they were offering a $40 version, BUT it comes with the same monthly fee attached as FF14, so if you buy that version, and stop paying them $10 each month, you’re locked out of the HoT content.

also, not to get distracted, but its irrelevant.
the fact is if they had priced it like FFXIV

• they still would have a package that is marketable and a good deal for newbies
• they would have not been giving different customers different service based on who they are
• they would not have had to refund players, or seem like they made a money grab
• would have less people complaining about content vs cost
• would not have this negative press and controversy

sub or not, they should have used a similar marketing strategy

but seriously this really makes me said, you’re probably absolutely right, not disagreeing with you but that doesnt change the fact on every single aspect (provided the content is there of course) Anets deal is better!

cheaper to get into, A LOT cheaper to play for years to come, cheaper for new players.

Even the core issue that Anet arent giving away a free slot with the basic version, thats less of a deal then not giving away a free month on all levels (its cheaper to buy the slot, slot is a one time cost, not everyone needs a slot absolutely everyone needs a sub)

yet time and time again people are saying we wish thats what Anet did? Super sad

the mistake you keep making is assuming that sub fees are just a cost.

the f2p/b2p model has its own costs.

people pay for ffxiv because the game is better for them without a gem store. The content is designed without gem store in mind. They get everything the game has to offer, and they get it through gameplay.

which is better unlimited internet for 50 bucks a month, or pay as you go internet? that depends entirely on how you prefer to use the internet.

Ohoni.6057:

to be honest I think sub games make a huge mistake charging a sub at all, I am sure they always loose a few players due to that barrier.

Oh, certainly, I would never in a million years advocate for sub models in general, but if we’re specifically dealing with the pricing of an expansion, the guaranteed sub fees off all of those who do buy it can help offset the cost of the box itself.

they were not being nice to the people who already played the game, in fact they are being slightly mean to them. The expansion is more expensive than most other expansions, gives less over the initial copy, and they offer a free basic game to newcomers, but dont offer the same free basic game to veterans (or something of value)

nice to new players
mean to old players.

Not even remotely. It is not being “mean” to existing players to offer something nice to someone else. If a restaurant chooses to give some free food to the homeless it is not them “being mean” to their paying customers. They are taking a product with an arbitrary value (the original game) and offering it to new players. This does not in ANY way harm existing players, and in fact benefits them because these new players will help to fund the continued growth of the game. It is the players’ hissyfits that are “mean” in this scenario.

sub fees are parrallel to gem store offerings.

Only if players are required to buy $10 in gems each month to continue playing, otherwise they are two totally different things.

if a restauraunt SELLS one guy one plate of food for the same price he sells another player the same plate of food PLUS another plate of food

then yes he is being mean to the first guy

as for the sub fee, what you are paying for a sub fee for, is to avoid being nickel and dimed, or have a gem store designed game.

which is better monthly internet, or pay as you go internet? And note that whether you choose monthly internet or pay as you go, an MMO still costs around the same as an offline RPG

phys.7689:

no the mistake was not being too nice, the mistake was taking veteran players as a given.

they were not being nice to the people who already played the game, in fact they are being slightly mean to them. The expansion is more expensive than most other expansions, gives less over the initial copy, and they offer a free basic game to newcomers, but dont offer the same free basic game to veterans (or something of value)

nice to new players
mean to old players.

granted its $10 more expansive them most with most being 3 vs 2 as far as I can tell.
but the gives less then the original game is bogus. every expansion gives less then the initial game, how could it be otherwise, 5 years working on the initial game with the full team, 3 years MAX working on the expansion with partial team. They offer the same deal to old or new player, nothing is stopping old players from opening a second account if they wish to. Granted sacrificing HoT on your main account isnt ideal but they do have no choice there. IF they gave a key to people so they can open a 2nd account while applying hot to their main account a lot of people would resell that costing Anet millions. that would be crazy.

phys.7689:

not surprisingly the older players are the ones who are upset.

stop bringing up sub fees. sub fees are not related to box game costs.

sub fees are parrallel to gem store offerings.

people are angry saying they’re unable to enjoy the expansion properly without being given an extra slot. its a major issue with this whole story. can you enjoy the expansion with a sub? why shouldnt that be an issue ? its far bigger! and no sub fees dont parallel gem store officerings. one is manadatory the other is optional, I will not be locked out of Hot if i dont buy gems.

phys.7689:

a person who is currently playing ffxiv is paying the sub fee regardless of whether he gets heavensward or not. It doesnt figure into whether the expansion itself is worth it or not.

let me give you an analogy

its like two different clubs
both charge a cover
one has a monthly fee, but you get free drinks/pretzels
one has no monthly fee but charges you for drinks/food

the monthly fee has nothing to do with the cover. truth is more money tends to be made from the clubs that charge for drinks and food. Yes, some people go there and buy no drinks and food, but reality is the club makes more.

the monthly fee is paying for a different aspect of the service is what it boils down to. People who opt in, believe that sub fee is a greater value than non sub fee, irrespective of any expansions.

Thats not a fair parallel. Food and Drinks are the core elements for a club. It would be fairer to say they sell cloths and souvenirs. But now if said clubs start offerinf you a VIP boot for $50/$40 (they’re cheap clubs) You cannot really argue in good faith that getting a VIP boot at the free club is more expensive because they’re charging you $50 while the paid club is cheaper because they’re charging you $40. You cannot get in that vip boot without paying at least $55

people pay for ffxiv because the game is better for them without a gem store.

People pay for FF14 because they have to if they want to keep playing. Players are not given the choice to keep playing without paying a monthly fee, so if they enjoy the gameplay that FF14 provides, then they have to pay. Don’t try to portray it as some consensus decision among the community, the decision was entirely made by Squenix.

if a restauraunt SELLS one guy one plate of food for the same price he sells another player the same plate of food PLUS another plate of food

then yes he is being mean to the first guy

No, he is not. Not necessarily at least. He is only being mean if the first guy needs the plate they’re giving to the second man. In this case, players that already have the game, already have the game. They therefore do not need the game, because they already have it. So it is not “mean” of ANet to give new players the game that they do not have.

as for the sub fee, what you are paying for a sub fee for, is to avoid being nickel and dimed, or have a gem store designed game.

I’ve never felt that GW2’s design has nickle or dimed me, and I’ve certainly spent less on it than if I’d been paying a monthly fee. It’s certainly possible to do a poorly run cash shop, but that has no bearing on a discussion of GW2.

which is better monthly internet, or pay as you go internet? And note that whether you choose monthly internet or pay as you go, an MMO still costs around the same as an offline RPG

But that’s a poor comparison, because you don’t have to “pay as you go” with GW2. I mean, if the comparison was between a monthly fee or an hourly fee, I might go with the monthly if I felt that I would be playing enough to make that the better value. GW2 has neither though, it has the gem store, which is all inconsequential stuff to actually playing the game, so it would be like paying either a monthly fee for Internet OR getting unlimited free Internet, but having to pay for browser skins.

Galen Grey.4709:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Galen Grey.4709:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Galen Grey.4709:

Aidenwolf.5964:

@Galen Grey hello and welcome to the game. Your experience is not universal as the game generates revenue from the store.

Sorry I dont follow but thanks for the welcome even though its kinda 3 years later.

I meant the Vayne vs. Everyone game.

yeah sorry figured out your reply later… here is the proper reply:
.
Ok I follow now… what I linked is not something I said, its something another player said.
but even so Vayne didnt say everyone has said its possible to play the game without ever spending a single Gem, he said some have said so, you called it anecdotal I found you someone who made that claim. Even if he is the only person to ever refuse to pay a single gem and he’s not: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-much-have-you-spent-on-Gems/first
that still makes Vayne’s statement factual.
Edit: woke up and understood the post so edited to reply properly

Actually that’s not how proof works but I admire your spirit!

why do i even bother. everything anyone says or presents will always get dismissed.

yes I am sure people who claim they never bought a single gem in fact bought truck loads

and beyond that even though there is absolutely not a single piece of content in the game that requires a single gem to enjoy (and thats a fact) it is absolutely impossible to play the game without ever spending money on gems because that is not how proof works. as if you even need poof or there should be any debate whats so ever if it is possible to play Gw2 without spending a single cent.

I am sure you can provide so much proof to the contrary after all right?

That wasn’t my arguement. He stated as fact something then used anecdotal evidence to support a factual claim. Not to get caught in a semantical arguement I’ll simply say that linking one person’s (even your own) experience doesn’t prove a fact as it isn’t universal.

He said Guild Wars 2 is a B2P game, fact.

Then he referenced one player who never bought gems, which is anecdotal.

That’s where you came in. GW2 is in fact a hybrid B2P cash shop game. A true and undisputed B2P game would be an old school cartridge game with no DLC ever.

Ohoni.6057:

people pay for ffxiv because the game is better for them without a gem store.

People pay for FF14 because they have to if they want to keep playing. Players are not given the choice to keep playing without paying a monthly fee, so if they enjoy the gameplay that FF14 provides, then they have to pay. Don’t try to portray it as some consensus decision among the community, the decision was entirely made by Squenix.

if a restauraunt SELLS one guy one plate of food for the same price he sells another player the same plate of food PLUS another plate of food

then yes he is being mean to the first guy

No, he is not. Not necessarily at least. He is only being mean if the first guy needs the plate they’re giving to the second man. In this case, players that already have the game, already have the game. They therefore do not need the game, because they already have it. So it is not “mean” of ANet to give new players the game that they do not have.

as for the sub fee, what you are paying for a sub fee for, is to avoid being nickel and dimed, or have a gem store designed game.

I’ve never felt that GW2’s design has nickle or dimed me, and I’ve certainly spent less on it than if I’d been paying a monthly fee. It’s certainly possible to do a poorly run cash shop, but that has no bearing on a discussion of GW2.

which is better monthly internet, or pay as you go internet? And note that whether you choose monthly internet or pay as you go, an MMO still costs around the same as an offline RPG

But that’s a poor comparison, because you don’t have to “pay as you go” with GW2. I mean, if the comparison was between a monthly fee or an hourly fee, I might go with the monthly if I felt that I would be playing enough to make that the better value. GW2 has neither though, it has the gem store, which is all inconsequential stuff to actually playing the game, so it would be like paying either a monthly fee for Internet OR getting unlimited free Internet, but having to pay for browser skins.

they made a consensus descion by continuing to support the product.
What they are saying is that, the way this game is, right now, the way that it is structured because i give you monthly fees, is valuable enough to me, that i will pay you.

If they changed the model, the game itself would change. There are many people who prefer subs to no subs/gem store. because at the end of the day all these games are out to make money, and they will get it in some fashion.

see to YOU the gem store is inconsequential, to someone playing FFXIV the gem store is consequential. FFXIV is to able to deliver a product that is worth 12 dollars per month for them.

also the restauranteer who decides whether his customer has had enough food, and charges them differently based on that treating them differently.

many people would be HIGHLY offended if they asked for the same two plate special as the other guy is ordering and the restauranteer said, no you already ate enough. ill take your 20 dollars but give you less food.

they made a consensus descion by continuing to support the product.

Yes, but in a world of less than infinite choices, that does not say “we all agree that we prefer subscriptions,” it just means “we all agree that we would prefer to play this game, for all its positives and negatives, than to not play it.” You have no evidence as to how the community actually feels about the pricing model itself, beyond that they don’t dislike it enough to stop playing the game.

see to YOU the gem store is inconsequential, to someone playing FFXIV the gem store is consequential. FFXIV is to able to deliver a product that is worth 12 dollars per month for them.

You have no metric for that. While I’m sure that at least some FF14 players genuinely prefer the sub model, there is no way of knowing exactly how many they are, without either directly polling them, or offering them the choice of playing the exact same game without subs and seeing which they choose.

many people would be HIGHLY offended if they asked for the same two plate special as the other guy is ordering and the restauranteer said, no you already ate enough.

Your analogy has gotten a little fuzzy here. Nobody is saying anyone has “ate enough.” But the point is that current players have absolutely no need for what ANet is giving to new players, because they already have it. I suppose they should just change their phrasing if it would make people happier, to make clear that existing players ALSO get the core game, just, you know, overlayed over what they’ve already got, so it’s not something they would actually notice.

Ohoni.6057:

they made a consensus descion by continuing to support the product.

Yes, but in a world of less than infinite choices, that does not say “we all agree that we prefer subscriptions,” it just means “we all agree that we would prefer to play this game, for all its positives and negatives, than to not play it.” You have no evidence as to how the community actually feels about the pricing model itself, beyond that they don’t dislike it enough to stop playing the game.

see to YOU the gem store is inconsequential, to someone playing FFXIV the gem store is consequential. FFXIV is to able to deliver a product that is worth 12 dollars per month for them.

You have no metric for that. While I’m sure that at least some FF14 players genuinely prefer the sub model, there is no way of knowing exactly how many they are, without either directly polling them, or offering them the choice of playing the exact same game without subs and seeing which they choose.

many people would be HIGHLY offended if they asked for the same two plate special as the other guy is ordering and the restauranteer said, no you already ate enough.

Your analogy has gotten a little fuzzy here. Nobody is saying anyone has “ate enough.” But the point is that current players have absolutely no need for what ANet is giving to new players, because they already have it. I suppose they should just change their phrasing if it would make people happier, to make clear that existing players ALSO get the core game, just, you know, overlayed over what they’ve already got, so it’s not something they would actually notice.

no a new account is 5 charachter slots, extra inventory space, extra dailies. If they are offering players HoT +CORE
i want the extra core, to give to friends, get more charachters, more daily limited bonus, or extra inventory space.

Lets put it like this.
If the 50 dollars got me a hot upgrade, and 5 charachter slots, extra bank tabs, and 2x as much of all the daily limited crap, i wouldnt be complaining. i dont think most people would.

the usefulness of a new core account is not zero. why do you think many players bought extra accounts?

so yes, new players wanting a core account, or something of equal use is not entitlement, its actually asking for the same treatment for spending the same amount of money.

if anet is giving buy 1 get 1 free deals, i want it too, even if i have some at home already

no a new account is 5 charachter slots, extra inventory space, extra dailies. If they are offering players HoT +CORE

But they are offering that to existing players as well, it’s just that we already have those. So existing players will be getting five character slots too, they just already have five characters slots so they won’t notice. If you mean they should get an additional five, for a total of ten, well no, they shouldn’t. The new players aren’t getting ten slots.

Now, you always have the option of getting the same deal that the new players are getting, of buying HoT and getting the core game, five characters, etc., it’s just on a separate account from the one you already had. Up to you, but personally I’m taking my existing account into HoT.

If the 50 dollars got me a hot upgrade, and 5 charachter slots, extra bank tabs, and 2x as much of all the daily limited crap, i wouldnt be complaining. i dont think most people would.

Really? You think? What if they also gave everyone a solid gold Rhytlok statue, 12 billion gems, and a moa with a top hat mini? You think maybe less people would complain if they did that too? Of course if they gave out more free stuff less people would complain. Greedy, entitled people always like free stuff. But that doesn’t mean that they’re owed that free stuff, or that they deserve to get it.

I’d like to get all that stuff too, but I don’t feel ANet owes it to me. I have what I paid for, I have the slots I paid for. If I want five more slots I can buy five more slots.

if anet is giving buy 1 get 1 free deals, i want it too, even if i have some at home already

Yeah, but it’s hard to compare goods and services like that. Ok, here’s an analogy, what about cable TV? Let’s say you have a cable TV subscription, and it’s some weird new model where you pay once and never have to pay again. So you’ve paid, and now you have basic cable for life.

And then years later, after you’ve already gotten years of enjoyment out of that cable TV package you long since paid for, they offer a premium channel bundle for the same price as your original bundle, where you get like HBO and Stars and Showtime. So you’d like that, and want to buy it, but you notice they also have a deal, new customers get that Premium bundle AND the basic cable bundle you already purchased, for the same total price.

This tweaks you off to no end, why should they get the thing you paid for several years ago and have been enjoying for all this time, and you get nothing? But at the same time, you don’t need the basic cable for free, since you already have the basic cable for free. You can’t do anything with two Fox News channels, you can barely do anything with one. You already have the free thing in your possession, they can’t give you any more of that thing.

Ohoni.6057:

no a new account is 5 charachter slots, extra inventory space, extra dailies. If they are offering players HoT +CORE

But they are offering that to existing players as well, it’s just that we already have those. So existing players will be getting five character slots too, they just already have five characters slots so they won’t notice. If you mean they should get an additional five, for a total of ten, well no, they shouldn’t. The new players aren’t getting ten slots.

Now, you always have the option of getting the same deal that the new players are getting, of buying HoT and getting the core game, five characters, etc., it’s just on a separate account from the one you already had. Up to you, but personally I’m taking my existing account into HoT.

If the 50 dollars got me a hot upgrade, and 5 charachter slots, extra bank tabs, and 2x as much of all the daily limited crap, i wouldnt be complaining. i dont think most people would.

Really? You think? What if they also gave everyone a solid gold Rhytlok statue, 12 billion gems, and a moa with a top hat mini? You think maybe less people would complain if they did that too? Of course if they gave out more free stuff less people would complain. Greedy, entitled people always like free stuff. But that doesn’t mean that they’re owed that free stuff, or that they deserve to get it.

I’d like to get all that stuff too, but I don’t feel ANet owes it to me. I have what I paid for, I have the slots I paid for. If I want five more slots I can buy five more slots.

if anet is giving buy 1 get 1 free deals, i want it too, even if i have some at home already

Yeah, but it’s hard to compare goods and services like that. Ok, here’s an analogy, what about cable TV? Let’s say you have a cable TV subscription, and it’s some weird new model where you pay once and never have to pay again. So you’ve paid, and now you have basic cable for life.

And then years later, after you’ve already gotten years of enjoyment out of that cable TV package you long since paid for, they offer a premium channel bundle for the same price as your original bundle, where you get like HBO and Stars and Showtime. So you’d like that, and want to buy it, but you notice they also have a deal, new customers get that Premium bundle AND the basic cable bundle you already purchased, for the same total price.

This tweaks you off to no end, why should they get the thing you paid for several years ago and have been enjoying for all this time, and you get nothing? But at the same time, you don’t need the basic cable for free, since you already have the basic cable for free. You can’t do anything with two Fox News channels, you can barely do anything with one. You already have the free thing in your possession, they can’t give you any more of that thing.

this is not about the past, and what i got.
this is about the present and what i am getting now.

right now, new player buys the game, he gets 5 charachter slots, 1 bank tab, an expansion to Hot (which anet says is a seperate product)

i just get an expansion to hot, the fact that i previously bought one is irrelevant

returning customers get less value RIGHT NOW, thats the problem, its not about what they bought in the past or how things have devalued.

simply put anet wont give the free item (which has use no matter how many times you bought it in the past) to older players

right now, new player buys the game, he gets 5 charachter slots, 1 bank tab, an expansion to Hot (which anet says is a seperate product)

Yes, and you already have those things, so you get them too.

returning customers get less value RIGHT NOW, thats the problem, its not about what they bought in the past or how things have devalued.

No, you get the SAME value. He will be getting five slots, you already have five slots. He will be getting 1 bank tab, you already have that bank tab. You won’t have anything less than what the new player is getting, it’s not like he’s going to get seven free slots to your five, you just won’t have more than what he’s getting, and that bothers you for some reason.

Now what you will be getting over him is that you will have had the core game for several years already, and had the time opportunity to build up your characters and account, while he will be starting from scratch.

simply put anet wont give the free item (which has use no matter how many times you bought it in the past) to older players

But they ARE giving existing players the free item, it’s just the same as an item that they already own so they don’t seem to care.

Threads like this always have a very interesting dynamic to them, imo.

In the first place, it is dealing with a very subjective term…..“value”.
Each person has their own definition of that word.

On one extreme end, you have the person that bought this game almost 3 years ago, is still enjoying it, and thinks they have gotten far, far beyond their initial $50 investment. They don’t bat an eyelash on shelling out another $100 for the ultimate expansion, as they feel that the game has given them far more value than $150 over almost 3 years.

Then you have the other extreme end. Those that feel their initial $50 was a questionable investment, as they’re having troubles with the game, and not seeing enough change in the direction they want it to go. They feel that almost any sort of $$ over $10-20 for an expansion is an extreme slap in the face, especially when they don’t know exactly what is in the expansion.

And none of this is taking into account that a very large number of people involved in these discussions probably never even had to pay for GW1 or GW2 in the first place. There is no ‘value’ even involved for them, even if they insist there is, as they never had to shell out real money in the first place for the game. They got it as some sort of present from a friend, or their parents bought it for them.
Nor is it taking into account those people that don’t even play the game anymore who comment on these threads because they have some sort of self perceived grudge against the game. And heck, most of the people extremely happy with this game never even visit these or the reddit forums.

That’s why, imo, discussions like these are so completely senseless. None of this will accomplish anything. Some of the people in this thread who complain like crazy about ‘slap in the face’ attitude from Anet will still buy the expansion, and some will not. The loyal part of the playerbase will have no problems shelling out the money for the preorder. And then there will be those, loyal and otherwise, who will wait until it releases to buy it.

In the end, the game will be just fine. Sure, some people will quit over this….but there will also be new people buying the game. And then there will be the loyal ‘fanboys’ and ‘whitenights’ who will stick around no matter what.

It all comes down to your personal definition of value, and what you expect a game to deliver. I know what my definition of that word is, and I will be here.

Of course, this is all my own opinion, and I will most likely never have factual numbers to back it up. Just like those pulling numbers out of thin air about how much Anet will lose on this won’t have any factual numbers to back them up.

Anyways, the dynamic involved in these sorts of discussions is what is the most interesting, imo.

Although I don’t want to rake though the coals about pricing-points too much (I DO think it is aimed a bit high), but I notice a very high proportion of posters here highlight the lack of the offer of a new character slot for existing users a very bad deal.

If I was in some sort of control, but was unable or unwilling to alter the price-points, I would organise it so the base expansion pack’s CD code was dual-purpose. Those new users could use it to create a new GW2 account, but existing users could redeem the code against at least one new character-slot.

Not an ideal solution, but I bet many here would consider that option.

You know…I remember my first car. My parents gave it to me because it was “old” and it was time for them to update their ride…Kinda like the first GW2, which is now considered old content and probably why they are giving it away with the expansion.

I pre ordered and you can bet I’m ready to jump on those new guildhalls with the private arena.

Nakatsu Hime.3520:

Although I don’t want to rake though the coals about pricing-points too much (I DO think it is aimed a bit high), but I notice a very high proportion of posters here highlight the lack of the offer of a new character slot for existing users a very bad deal.

If I was in some sort of control, but was unable or unwilling to alter the price-points, I would organise it so the base expansion pack’s CD code was dual-purpose. Those new users could use it to create a new GW2 account, but existing users could redeem the code against at least one new character-slot.

Not an ideal solution, but I bet many here would consider that option.

As others have said in threads, the original game was offered with far less character slots then there were actual characters. I don’t recall that ever bugging the heck out of anyone who bought the original game. /shrug

I don’t understand players who are angry. Expensive or not, you buy it or you don’t; it’s just a game, not a necessity to have like electricity or food.

Then you have the other extreme end. Those that feel their initial $50 was a questionable investment, as they’re having troubles with the game, and not seeing enough change in the direction they want it to go.

I think that anyone who questions whether the initial $60 was a wise investment, they should just leave. I mean that’s just a glutton for punishment, if you don’t believe the initial purchase was worth it and yet are considering dropping another $50. I can just tell those people right now that they won’t be satisfied and I’d rather not hear them whining about it for the next year. Cut bait guys.

Xillllix.3485:

I don’t understand players who are angry. Expensive or not, you buy it or you don’t; it’s just a game, not a necessity to have like electricity or food.

Same it’s a Pre Purchase… so you dont think you know enough about the game yet? then wait till release, honestly they make it sound like ANET are forcing them to pre order HoT.

I honestly don’t think its that expensive considering how many hundreds of hours iv got out of GW2 currently with no Sub Fee.

Same it’s a Pre Purchase… so you dont think you know enough about the game yet? then wait till release, honestly they make it sound like ANET are forcing them to pre order HoT.

Yeah,l that’s really the dumbest part of this, people complaining that they “don’t know enough yet” to spend $50 on it, like it’s a now or never decision and it’s ANet’s fault for forcing them to make it. We knew considerably less about vanilla GW2 this time in 2012 when we were asked to spend $60 on it, and yet plenty of us did. If you honestly don’t feel that you know enough about HoT to pull the trigger, then just wait until you are comfortable with the purchase, whether that’s a month from now, or at launch, or a year after launch.

Ohoni.6057:

Then you have the other extreme end. Those that feel their initial $50 was a questionable investment, as they’re having troubles with the game, and not seeing enough change in the direction they want it to go.

I think that anyone who questions whether the initial $60 was a wise investment, they should just leave. I mean that’s just a glutton for punishment, if you don’t believe the initial purchase was worth it and yet are considering dropping another $50. I can just tell those people right now that they won’t be satisfied and I’d rather not hear them whining about it for the next year. Cut bait guys.

its not really a question of the initial investment, its a question of this investment right now.
50 dollars for what anet is selling right now. They already have the game, thats done. The question is what more do they get? what are they buying into in the future.

For a lot of people for various reasons, 50 dollars doesnt look like a good price for what they will get with the purchase of HoT. Or, they dont feel like they should be supporting the franchise as they currently see it at that price.

phys.7689:

Ohoni.6057:

Then you have the other extreme end. Those that feel their initial $50 was a questionable investment, as they’re having troubles with the game, and not seeing enough change in the direction they want it to go.

I think that anyone who questions whether the initial $60 was a wise investment, they should just leave. I mean that’s just a glutton for punishment, if you don’t believe the initial purchase was worth it and yet are considering dropping another $50. I can just tell those people right now that they won’t be satisfied and I’d rather not hear them whining about it for the next year. Cut bait guys.

its not really a question of the initial investment, its a question of this investment right now.
50 dollars for what anet is selling right now. They already have the game, thats done. The question is what more do they get? what are they buying into in the future.

For a lot of people for various reasons, 50 dollars doesnt look like a good price for what they will get with the purchase of HoT. Or, they dont feel like they should be supporting the franchise as they currently see it at that price.

If that is the way that some people feel…..“what have you done for me lately”….then they should just wait until it releases. Check out what their friends say, what the reviews are like, and then, if they still don’t like it…..

As Ohoni said…….“cut bait”.

Ohoni.6057:

Same it’s a Pre Purchase… so you dont think you know enough about the game yet? then wait till release, honestly they make it sound like ANET are forcing them to pre order HoT.

Yeah,l that’s really the dumbest part of this, people complaining that they “don’t know enough yet” to spend $50 on it, like it’s a now or never decision and it’s ANet’s fault for forcing them to make it. We knew considerably less about vanilla GW2 this time in 2012 when we were asked to spend $60 on it, and yet plenty of us did. If you honestly don’t feel that you know enough about HoT to pull the trigger, then just wait until you are comfortable with the purchase, whether that’s a month from now, or at launch, or a year after launch.

that actually is a more a complaint that anet would withold that info while selling people the item. Its not that they have to pay, its that anet would even ask for money before being able to tell people these things.

Which in all honesty, imo is correct. The first thing that struck me when i heard about the expansion was, is there a release date? They want people to prepurchase without a release date? Is that a thing now?

But its doesnt personally effect me, as you said i can just wait. However many people find it to be bad business to take money from people before coming to a firm agreement on what they can expect with that money. I have seen many optimistic buyers talking about what they are going to get with the expansion, and i notice that many of those things have never been guaranteed

i seen people talk about how they will get new dungeons
and many zones
or a whole new big personal story

Teon.5168:

phys.7689:

Ohoni.6057:

Then you have the other extreme end. Those that feel their initial $50 was a questionable investment, as they’re having troubles with the game, and not seeing enough change in the direction they want it to go.

I think that anyone who questions whether the initial $60 was a wise investment, they should just leave. I mean that’s just a glutton for punishment, if you don’t believe the initial purchase was worth it and yet are considering dropping another $50. I can just tell those people right now that they won’t be satisfied and I’d rather not hear them whining about it for the next year. Cut bait guys.

its not really a question of the initial investment, its a question of this investment right now.
50 dollars for what anet is selling right now. They already have the game, thats done. The question is what more do they get? what are they buying into in the future.

For a lot of people for various reasons, 50 dollars doesnt look like a good price for what they will get with the purchase of HoT. Or, they dont feel like they should be supporting the franchise as they currently see it at that price.

If that is the way that some people feel…..“what have you done for me lately”….then they should just wait until it releases. Check out what their friends say, what the reviews are like, and then, if they still don’t like it…..

As Ohoni said…….“cut bait”.

not sure what cut bait means, but yeah you will still hear people whining about it, the forums now have two types of customers Hot and Core, and core problems and Hot problems will be different, and both sides will be hearing the other sides griping.

I believe ‘cut bait’ in this context means quit.

I already pre-purchased HoT because I was never going to get the cheapest option anyway, and I long ago decided that this was something I was going to set aside money for.

Galen Grey.4709:

The expansion is still “expanding” the core game, nothing has changed there.

I’ll be honest. I stopped reading your post after this gem.

Teon.5168:

Threads like this always have a very interesting dynamic to them, imo.

In the first place, it is dealing with a very subjective term…..“value”.
Each person has their own definition of that word.

On one extreme end, you have the person that bought this game almost 3 years ago, is still enjoying it, and thinks they have gotten far, far beyond their initial $50 investment. They don’t bat an eyelash on shelling out another $100 for the ultimate expansion, as they feel that the game has given them far more value than $150 over almost 3 years.

Then you have the other extreme end. Those that feel their initial $50 was a questionable investment, as they’re having troubles with the game, and not seeing enough change in the direction they want it to go. They feel that almost any sort of $$ over $10-20 for an expansion is an extreme slap in the face, especially when they don’t know exactly what is in the expansion.

And none of this is taking into account that a very large number of people involved in these discussions probably never even had to pay for GW1 or GW2 in the first place. There is no ‘value’ even involved for them, even if they insist there is, as they never had to shell out real money in the first place for the game. They got it as some sort of present from a friend, or their parents bought it for them.
Nor is it taking into account those people that don’t even play the game anymore who comment on these threads because they have some sort of self perceived grudge against the game. And heck, most of the people extremely happy with this game never even visit these or the reddit forums.

That’s why, imo, discussions like these are so completely senseless. None of this will accomplish anything. Some of the people in this thread who complain like crazy about ‘slap in the face’ attitude from Anet will still buy the expansion, and some will not. The loyal part of the playerbase will have no problems shelling out the money for the preorder. And then there will be those, loyal and otherwise, who will wait until it releases to buy it.

In the end, the game will be just fine. Sure, some people will quit over this….but there will also be new people buying the game. And then there will be the loyal ‘fanboys’ and ‘whitenights’ who will stick around no matter what.

It all comes down to your personal definition of value, and what you expect a game to deliver. I know what my definition of that word is, and I will be here.

Of course, this is all my own opinion, and I will most likely never have factual numbers to back it up. Just like those pulling numbers out of thin air about how much Anet will lose on this won’t have any factual numbers to back them up.

Anyways, the dynamic involved in these sorts of discussions is what is the most interesting, imo.

I like this human, clevers.

This is right. https://youtu.be/aUtMGS3ezLI

Dead.5829:

If it costs t hem 100,000$ according to the reddit thread, I hope it brings in 10 times that in new players that don’t act like entitled brats.

It won’t. GW2 is no longer in a phase where there can be a massive influx of new players. Not without expanding into a new, yet unexploited area (like it was with China). Most of the increase of active players, if it happens, will come from returning players, not new ones. And of course returning players will not be offered the same good deal.
Frankly, if anyone not yet playing GW2 would have been interested in HoT strongly enough to prepurchase, they would have bought the core game on one of the sales events after expansion was announced. And of course many of those players would have a reason to feel cheated now, after learning they will need to rebuy the core they bought barely few months ago.

Ohoni.6057:

right now, new player buys the game, he gets 5 charachter slots, 1 bank tab, an expansion to Hot (which anet says is a seperate product)

Yes, and you already have those things, so you get them too.

But i have already paid for them. 3 years ago. Why should i pay for them again?

Ohoni.6057:

returning customers get less value RIGHT NOW, thats the problem, its not about what they bought in the past or how things have devalued.

No, you get the SAME value. He will be getting five slots, you already have five slots.

Ah, but again, i have already paid for those once before. Why should i pay for them again?

Ohoni.6057:

You won’t have anything less than what the new player is getting

But he will pay for it once, while i will pay twice.

Ohoni.6057:

Now what you will be getting over him is that you will have had the core game for several years already, and had the time opportunity to build up your characters and account, while he will be starting from scratch.

Yes, but again, i have paid for this. He didn’t.

Ohoni.6057:

But they ARE giving existing players the free item, it’s just the same as an item that they already own so they don’t seem to care.

Actually, no, they don’t give that free item to existing players. They won’t receive the “free” core, they will only have the core thay paid for earlier.

its not really a question of the initial investment, its a question of this investment right now.
50 dollars for what anet is selling right now. They already have the game, thats done. The question is what more do they get? what are they buying into in the future.

And they know more about the answer to that question than anyone did who dropped $60 on pre-ordering GW2 this time in 2012. Simple as that. If that’s not enough information to pre-order, then they shouldn’t, and they don’t have to, but for most of us, we already know about this game to know that we’ll be playing it for years to come, and that $50 is a small price to pay.

that actually is a more a complaint that anet would withold that info while selling people the item. Its not that they have to pay, its that anet would even ask for money before being able to tell people these things.

Bull. Total bull. You can preorder AC: Syndicate or Fallout 4 right now, and we know almost nothing about those games, certainly less than about HoT. It’s not a game company’s job to release 100% information on a game before making preorders AVAILABLE. If the information currently available is not enough for you, then wait for more, nobody is forcing you to buy right this minute.

If ANet was saying “Buy the game within the next thirty days or it will be permanently unavailable, and only after that period will we release full details on the project,” then of course that would be a horrible scam that I would never want to be a party to, but that is not what they are doing here.

They are obviously going to dribble out information as the time to launch approaches, not because they’re trying to “hide” anything from the players, but just because it’s marketing 101 to keep people engaged. If they dumped every single detail about the game right now, then people would stop paying attention in the intervening months. It doesn’t take a middle school graduate to understand that.

So it’s not ANet’s job to have 100% information out there before they make the purchase available, and nor is it your job to spend any money you aren’t comfortable spending, but nobody is forcing you to buy now, so getting mad at having the OPTION to buy before you’re ready to do so is just complete nonsense.

But i have already paid for them. 3 years ago. Why should i pay for them again?

You aren’t paying for them again. Nobody is paying for them, they are free. You get them for free. They have zero cost, and you are paying zero cost for them.

Ah, but again, i have already paid for those once before. Why should i pay for them again?

And again, you are not.

But he will pay for it once, while i will pay twice.

No, you paid for it once, he paid for it zero times (but with the caveat that he did not get to enjoy the past three years in Tyria), neither of you is paying for it twice.

Yes, but again, i have paid for this. He didn’t.

And that’s true, he won’t have to pay for the core game since it’s being given to you both for free, but it’s a three year old game at this point, and prices fall in that time.

Actually, no, they don’t give that free item to existing players. They won’t receive the “free” core, they will only have the core thay paid for earlier.

No, existing players get the free core game too, they just already have it, so they aren’t likely to notice. It’s like getting a “free drenching” when you’re already wet.

Ohoni.6057:

its not really a question of the initial investment, its a question of this investment right now.
50 dollars for what anet is selling right now. They already have the game, thats done. The question is what more do they get? what are they buying into in the future.

And they know more about the answer to that question than anyone did who dropped $60 on pre-ordering GW2 this time in 2012. Simple as that. If that’s not enough information to pre-order, then they shouldn’t, and they don’t have to, but for most of us, we already know about this game to know that we’ll be playing it for years to come, and that $50 is a small price to pay.

that actually is a more a complaint that anet would withold that info while selling people the item. Its not that they have to pay, its that anet would even ask for money before being able to tell people these things.

Bull. Total bull. You can preorder AC: Syndicate or Fallout 4 right now, and we know almost nothing about those games, certainly less than about HoT. It’s not a game company’s job to release 100% information on a game before making preorders AVAILABLE. If the information currently available is not enough for you, then wait for more, nobody is forcing you to buy right this minute.

If ANet was saying “Buy the game within the next thirty days or it will be permanently unavailable, and only after that period will we release full details on the project,” then of course that would be a horrible scam that I would never want to be a party to, but that is not what they are doing here.

They are obviously going to dribble out information as the time to launch approaches, not because they’re trying to “hide” anything from the players, but just because it’s marketing 101 to keep people engaged. If they dumped every single detail about the game right now, then people would stop paying attention in the intervening months. It doesn’t take a middle school graduate to understand that.

So it’s not ANet’s job to have 100% information out there before they make the purchase available, and nor is it your job to spend any money you aren’t comfortable spending, but nobody is forcing you to buy now, so getting mad at having the OPTION to buy before you’re ready to do so is just complete nonsense.

But i have already paid for them. 3 years ago. Why should i pay for them again?

You aren’t paying for them again. Nobody is paying for them, they are free. You get them for free. They have zero cost, and you are paying zero cost for them.

Ah, but again, i have already paid for those once before. Why should i pay for them again?

And again, you are not.

But he will pay for it once, while i will pay twice.

No, you paid for it once, he paid for it zero times (but with the caveat that he did not get to enjoy the past three years in Tyria), neither of you is paying for it twice.

Yes, but again, i have paid for this. He didn’t.

And that’s true, he won’t have to pay for the core game since it’s being given to you both for free, but it’s a three year old game at this point, and prices fall in that time.

Actually, no, they don’t give that free item to existing players. They won’t receive the “free” core, they will only have the core thay paid for earlier.

No, existing players get the free core game too, they just already have it, so they aren’t likely to notice. It’s like getting a “free drenching” when you’re already wet.

Ohoni, I have 2 questions to ask you? You have all the “answers with all information” of what is happening in Arena net without them telling us: do you have any relationship with Arena net? Are you being payed by Arena net? I was punished for investigating people for making fake claims and writing fake reports.

That is all.

Ohoni, I have 2 questions to ask you? You have all the “answers with all information” of what is happening in Arena net without them telling us: do you have any relationship with Arena net? Are you being payed by Arena net? I was punished for investigating people for making fake claims and writing fake reports.

I’ve never claimed to know what’s going on inside ANet, I don’t need to know, I trust that it’ll work out.

Seems kinda silly to pre-purchase with no release date and no details on what makes it worth $50. I’m definitely intrigued by HOT, but only if it’s comparable in size to the original since the price is comparable in size.

I’ll most likely get it sooner or later, but it’s way too early to shuck out $$ with so many unknowns.

Ohoni.6057:

No. $50 is the retail cost. It’s not “$30 + the cost of the original game,” It’s "$50 AND you get the original game free with purchase. They can remove the option of getting the original game, but lowering the price is not a factor in that. Why is this so very very hard for people to understand?

Because $50 is too much for an expansion to a game, period, unless said expansion has more than enough content to justify it. If Heart of Thorns had as much content as the vanilla GW2 when it first came out, then yes, it would be worth $50. Such as how FFXIV’s Heavensward seems to have as much content as the original Realm Reborn version (and both came out for $40).

I seriously doubt it will have that much though, and there’s quite a bit we don’t know about expansion. Right now I’d pay $30 without hesitation and POSSIBLY $40 (the line I feel one should take as the maximum for expansion costs), but not $50.

Ohoni.6057:

You can’t go into a restaurant and say "I see that the steak costs $20. Now I don’t want to pay $20. but I see that it comes with a free side, and if I ordered that side separately it would cost $2. So here’s what you’re going to do, because you owe me, you’re going to give me just the steak, and I’m only going to pay you $18, because I’m entitled to the deal that I want, not the deal that you offered.

No, it does not work that way. The customer is always right, unless he’s not. In this case, the customer is most certainly not.

Bad comparison. A steak is a perishable food item you eat and is then gone forever, whereas Guild Wars 2 is something you buy and have forever. Come up with a better comparison and then respond.

Seems kinda silly to pre-purchase with no release date and no details on what makes it worth $50. I’m definitely intrigued by HOT, but only if it’s comparable in size to the original since the price is comparable in size.

Then back away from the discussion, because I guarantee you right now that HoT will definitely not be of equivalent size to the launch game. If it is, I will buy you a copy myself. Given your ultimatum, you will not be buying HoT, so there’s no more reason for you to be participating in the discussion.

Because $50 is too much for an expansion to a game, period, unless said expansion has more than enough content to justify it.

And everything you said there is entirely subjective. There is no objective basis as to what $50 of content is “worth.” If you don’t think what HoT is offering is worth $50 to you, then don’t buy it. Other people believe it will be worth it to them, and so they are buying it.

The first WoW expansion added only 25% to the size of their world, and yet cost 70% of the original version. It’s only in the last couple of expansions that they’ve eventually managed to double the original game world’s size. Their most recent expansion, which did cost $50, only added 20% to the vanilla game map’s size, and that’s WITH charging a monthly fee on top of it (and a cash shop). By your argument, the first expansion to WoW, and every subsequent one, should have cost no more than $12.

NO MMO expansion has ever had a cost relative to its size when compared to the original map, that is an unreasonable expectation to have. That is not what you are owed. If that bothers you, you are free to not buy it.

Bad comparison. A steak is a perishable food item you eat and is then gone forever, whereas Guild Wars 2 is something you buy and have forever. Come up with a better comparison and then respond.

No.

Ohoni.6057:

You can preorder AC: Syndicate or Fallout 4 right now, and we know almost nothing about those games, certainly less than about HoT.

Actually, I know far more about FO4 than I do about HoT.

For starters, I know when FO4’s official launch date is. That already tells me more about FO4 than HoT by a mile.

Ohoni.6057:

They are obviously going to dribble out information as the time to launch approaches, not because they’re trying to “hide” anything from the players, but just because it’s marketing 101 to keep people engaged. If they dumped every single detail about the game right now, then people would stop paying attention in the intervening months. It doesn’t take a middle school graduate to understand that.

Exactly the level of marketing expertise they’re displaying to this point. Freshman level econ is losing the company business.