Downfall of Gw2
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The source was requested for this claim, whomever made it:
No most players quit because they finished hot already or 95% of it.
I didn’t read that statement as anything more than an opinion. Which only serves to highlight that your request for a “source” is pointless since you know that Anet never releases that type of information.
NO such metrics exist regarding the state of the game. And Extreme’s not being able to furnish them does not somehow “prove” that HoT is successful.
There can be no “burden of proof” in the absence of information.
Hopefully you have realised this already and understand that people quit for this reason
No most players quit because they finished hot already or 95% of it.
Source?
I don’t have a source i just know the new maps are more desserted than before.
after just 1 week i saw many lvl 50-120 players.
OP dont have a source of bad class balance either.
In pvp i see all classes except for warriors there is lots of thieves but it still sucks.
Stacked teams usually lose except for dragonhunters.What if someone else “just knows” that it’s doing fine. What do we do then?
Hitchen’s razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.Then you can dismiss OP too because no evidence.
I have.
His faulty reasoning and missuse of the term Pay to Win has been pointed out multiple times in this topic.Maybe you should apply for work at arenanet.
As statistic analyst you know. so you can get the evidence.
Or maybe I can wait half a year and get the evidence based on it’s retention rate and changes in stocks, you know, like with any other game?
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
Hopefully you have realised this already and understand that people quit for this reason
No most players quit because they finished hot already or 95% of it.
Source?
I don’t have a source i just know the new maps are more desserted than before.
after just 1 week i saw many lvl 50-120 players.
OP dont have a source of bad class balance either.
In pvp i see all classes except for warriors there is lots of thieves but it still sucks.
Stacked teams usually lose except for dragonhunters.What if someone else “just knows” that it’s doing fine. What do we do then?
Hitchen’s razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.Then you can dismiss OP too because no evidence.
I have.
His faulty reasoning and missuse of the term Pay to Win has been pointed out multiple times in this topic.Maybe you should apply for work at arenanet.
As statistic analyst you know. so you can get the evidence.Or maybe I can wait half a year and get the evidence based on it’s retention rate and changes in stocks, you know, like with any other game?
Ok, guys, next time wait half a year before posting on forums.
What if someone else “just knows” that it’s doing fine. What do we do then?
Hitchen’s razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
No. In the absence of information, you construct reasoned scenarios and weigh the risk/rewards.
You must not work in the applied sciences, am I right?
What if someone else “just knows” that it’s doing fine. What do we do then?
Hitchen’s razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.No. In the absence of information, you construct reasoned scenarios and weigh the risk/rewards.
You must not work in the applied sciences, am I right?
Do you? Did you just call this a reasoned scenario?
Please show the reasoning behind the claim in question, it must be so deep that those of us who asked for a source can’t understand it.
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
(edited by Raziel.4216)
Hopefully you have realised this already and understand that people quit for this reason
No most players quit because they finished hot already or 95% of it.
Source?
I don’t have a source i just know the new maps are more desserted than before.
after just 1 week i saw many lvl 50-120 players.
OP dont have a source of bad class balance either.
In pvp i see all classes except for warriors there is lots of thieves but it still sucks.
Stacked teams usually lose except for dragonhunters.What if someone else “just knows” that it’s doing fine. What do we do then?
Hitchen’s razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.Then you can dismiss OP too because no evidence.
I have.
His faulty reasoning and missuse of the term Pay to Win has been pointed out multiple times in this topic.Maybe you should apply for work at arenanet.
As statistic analyst you know. so you can get the evidence.Or maybe I can wait half a year and get the evidence based on it’s retention rate and changes in stocks, you know, like with any other game?
Ok, guys, next time wait half a year before posting on forums.
Before stating that a game was a success/failure and that most people left/continue to play? sure, please do.
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
Do you? Did you just call this a reasoned scenario?
Please show the reasoning behind the claim in question, it must be so deep that those of us who asked for a source can’t understand it.
Jeeesshhhhh,
Read my post, which you “quoted”. I listed three (3) scenarios.
Do you? Did you just call this a reasoned scenario?
Please show the reasoning behind the claim in question, it must be so deep that those of us who asked for a source can’t understand it.
Jeeesshhhhh,
Read my post, which you “quoted”. I listed three (3) scenarios.
Your scenarios are one thing. Those are posible situations that could be true.
His claim that most of the playerbase has already left and for a very specific reason is another.
You sure you read the claim in question?
Once again, talking about the claim in question, did you just call it a reasoned scenario?
Since you talk about science, did you know there’s a difference between postulating a hypothesis and stating a fact?
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
(edited by Raziel.4216)
Do you? Did you just call this a reasoned scenario?
Please show the reasoning behind the claim in question, it must be so deep that those of us who asked for a source can’t understand it.
Jeeesshhhhh,
Read my post, which you “quoted”. I listed three (3) scenarios.
Your scenarios are one thing. Those are posible situations that could be true.
His claim that most of the playerbase has already left and for a very specific reason is another.
You sure you read the claim in question?
Once again, talking about the claim in question, did you just call it a reasoned scenario?
I already said that I took his position to be an opinion, and nothing more. But your requesting data which you know not to exist doesn’t prove or disprove anything.
And your misinterpretation of Hitchens, as it applies to situations where less than adequate information exists, only tells me that you should read more Ernst Mach and William James, and less Hitchens. ; )
Do you? Did you just call this a reasoned scenario?
Please show the reasoning behind the claim in question, it must be so deep that those of us who asked for a source can’t understand it.
Jeeesshhhhh,
Read my post, which you “quoted”. I listed three (3) scenarios.
Your scenarios are one thing. Those are posible situations that could be true.
His claim that most of the playerbase has already left and for a very specific reason is another.
You sure you read the claim in question?
Once again, talking about the claim in question, did you just call it a reasoned scenario?I already said that I took his position to be an opinion, and nothing more. But your requesting data which you know not to exist doesn’t prove or disprove anything.
And your misinterpretation of Hitchens, as it applies to situations where less than adequate information exists, only tells me that you should read more Ernst Mach and William James, and less Hitchens. ; )
For you it’s an opinion, to others it looked like he was stating a fact, that’s why we asked for a source.
Hitchen’s razor applies to that.
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
Hopefully you have realised this already and understand that people quit for this reason
No most players quit because they finished hot already or 95% of it.
And your quantitative data showing most players have stopped playing is where?
And your quantitative data showing most players haven’t stopped playing is where?
HoT’s three scenarios:
1) HoT is wildly successful. It’s attracted a huge, new player base, it’s the talk of the gaming community, servers have been added and the future of GW2 is secure.
2) Hot was meh. It brought in some new players, but also lost about the same amount. In this case, the game’s future is limited. HoT was not sold to it’s investors as a “wash” in revenue.
3) HoT has failed to expand the player base, and is losing players. It’s future is not secure (which might explain the lack of updates). It was a good 3 1/2 year run, but it’s pretty much all down hill from here.
You’d think that Anet would be shouting from the roof tops if the player base has grown tremendously or that it would be evident by having to add new servers, etc.
Which of the three scenarios is most likely?
I think this is an interesting point. I think one of the main issues is they have No Direction at all, they need to start reading players comments, and suggestions and actually confer with the community about what differing levels of players want.
They have pushed this weird F2P thing to probably try revitalize the community with new players, but really thats just a sugar hit of casuals. Some games have managed to revitalize there game by changing to a f2p model – Star Trek Online was on that was rebounding success.
They are trying to push esports which will never work, this game doesn’t have the framework to support esports – it has a simplistic pvp interface and game play system, it has exceedingly unstable servers that only benefit NA players, Oceanic players who incorporate everything from the south east asian region to Aus/NZ, which contrary to typical forum ignorance actually makes up a sizeable population in game can’t even play competitively in these tournaments due to terrible latency – with that in mind how can there be fair tournaments when there is no even playing ground.
They are competing to maintain either casual players, or veteran hardcore players. Yet make such woefully embarrassing design choices that make everyone question what drugs they are on e.g. Nightfury and Winter’s presence, the majority of HoT collections, anything requiring Crystalline ore. Even Hardcore players are struggling to maintain the rate of grind related content.
We have a gemstore that constantly increasing in price, and adding superfluous and useless items. All of which should be added to the game through legitimate means not just gems. Also anet please stop with 2 week turn around for BLTC weapon sets, your already making people burn gold with everything. These should be on a monthly turn around.
I am a vet player from GW1, and have been a staunch defender of GW2, but the design choices since the end of the living story before HoT have just absolutely been disastrous. The poorly designed story around HoT, the fiasco with GH upgrades, SCRIBING, Killing Dungeons, Abandonment of WvW, Tier 2 of every single legendary precursor journey, the blatant gold sinks in nearly every aspect of the expansion, the trend towards bank breaking collections. I am going to say 3. Hot was a disaster, and unless they do some rapid back peddling and reversal of content changes, they might not recover.
Stop relating to WoW’s level cap, gw2 doesnt have this and you look like an idiot. The elite specs are new so people want to use them, you’re right. but when someone that has never played engi before runs a scrapper and beats experienced players just because the class is overpowered. a normal engi vs a scrapper the scrapper is bound to win. And this i believe is what Anet tried to do by getting as much pocket money out of all of you that have purchased HoT because you PAYED MONEY FOR IT the classes ( or Elite Specs) are going to be stronger than the normal class itself, and if eventually Anet realises this, they still won’t make Elite Specs balanced to normal classes? why would they? you have payed money to get the elite specs so why would they give people who have payed money an equal chance to play the game towards people who only have the orginal GW2. it’s simple. why would you?
Stop relating to WoW’s level cap, gw2 doesnt have this and you look like an idiot. The elite specs are new so people want to use them, you’re right. but when someone that has never played engi before runs a scrapper and beats experienced players just because the class is overpowered. a normal engi vs a scrapper the scrapper is bound to win. And this i believe is what Anet tried to do by getting as much pocket money out of all of you that have purchased HoT because you PAYED MONEY FOR IT the classes ( or Elite Specs) are going to be stronger than the normal class itself, and if eventually Anet realises this, they still won’t make Elite Specs balanced to normal classes? why would they? you have payed money to get the elite specs so why would they give people who have payed money an equal chance to play the game towards people who only have the orginal GW2. it’s simple. why would you?
I’m sorry when someone brings up the term pay to win, in relationship to the expansion, then it’s absolutely fair to bring up other games, to see if they are pay to win. WoW does raise the level cap. You can’t compete if you don’t buy the expansion. Therefore, according to this odd definition. WoW is pay to win. So is every other game that raises the level cap. You can’t compete unless you buy the expansion.
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
As for claiming I look like an idiot for bringing up a valid point, I’d appreciate it if you’d refrain from name-calling in the future. It doesn’t make your argument any stronger.
Stop relating to WoW’s level cap, gw2 doesnt have this and you look like an idiot. The elite specs are new so people want to use them, you’re right. but when someone that has never played engi before runs a scrapper and beats experienced players just because the class is overpowered. a normal engi vs a scrapper the scrapper is bound to win. And this i believe is what Anet tried to do by getting as much pocket money out of all of you that have purchased HoT because you PAYED MONEY FOR IT the classes ( or Elite Specs) are going to be stronger than the normal class itself, and if eventually Anet realises this, they still won’t make Elite Specs balanced to normal classes? why would they? you have payed money to get the elite specs so why would they give people who have payed money an equal chance to play the game towards people who only have the orginal GW2. it’s simple. why would you?
I’m sorry when someone brings up the term pay to win, in relationship to the expansion, then it’s absolutely fair to bring up other games, to see if they are pay to win. WoW does raise the level cap. You can’t compete if you don’t buy the expansion. Therefore, according to this odd definition. WoW is pay to win. So is every other game that raises the level cap. You can’t compete unless you buy the expansion.
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
As for claiming I look like an idiot for bringing up a valid point, I’d appreciate it if you’d refrain from name-calling in the future. It doesn’t make your argument any stronger.
you’re right about being able to still compete, although people have an unfair advantage because they bought the expansion, which relates to the term pay to win? comprende
Stop relating to WoW’s level cap, gw2 doesnt have this and you look like an idiot. The elite specs are new so people want to use them, you’re right. but when someone that has never played engi before runs a scrapper and beats experienced players just because the class is overpowered. a normal engi vs a scrapper the scrapper is bound to win. And this i believe is what Anet tried to do by getting as much pocket money out of all of you that have purchased HoT because you PAYED MONEY FOR IT the classes ( or Elite Specs) are going to be stronger than the normal class itself, and if eventually Anet realises this, they still won’t make Elite Specs balanced to normal classes? why would they? you have payed money to get the elite specs so why would they give people who have payed money an equal chance to play the game towards people who only have the orginal GW2. it’s simple. why would you?
I’m sorry when someone brings up the term pay to win, in relationship to the expansion, then it’s absolutely fair to bring up other games, to see if they are pay to win. WoW does raise the level cap. You can’t compete if you don’t buy the expansion. Therefore, according to this odd definition. WoW is pay to win. So is every other game that raises the level cap. You can’t compete unless you buy the expansion.
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
As for claiming I look like an idiot for bringing up a valid point, I’d appreciate it if you’d refrain from name-calling in the future. It doesn’t make your argument any stronger.
you’re right about being able to still compete, although people have an unfair advantage because they bought the expansion, which relates to the term pay to win? comprende
Sure I comprende. You’re saying this game is pay to win, because buying the expansion gives you an advantage. I’m challenging you then to name an MMORPG that’s not pay to win. I bet you’ll have trouble finding one based on your interpretation of pay to win.
This issue is you’re using the term pay to win as literal English language. Many expressions aren’t literal however, and have other meanings. Pay to win has always meant games that sell power in their cash shop, not games that come out with an expansion.
By your definition every single MMORPG I’ve ever played is Pay to Win. Since no one calls those other games pay to win, I can only assume the definition you’re using is faulty.
You can’t just literally look at words and assume that’s what they mean. Sometimes you have to look at how words are used historically to understand their meaning.
you’re right about being able to still compete, although people have an unfair advantage because they bought the expansion, which relates to the term pay to win? comprende
Your definition of P2W includes any MMO expansion, because they’ll always give you something that core users won’t have. A definition that fails to diferentiate between games and includes everything is simply useless.
That’s not how P2W is used.
If we could just drop 40$ and have a character with something that’s stronger (in a vertical way) than people who don’t throw 40$ down we’d be talking about P2W, like FLYFF or Mapplestory.
If NOONE can reach that level of power without paying for stat boosts, high-end pots, etc. we’d be talking about P2W.
If you don’t have access to a class or a part of a class because it’s expansion locked we’re talking about content designed to sell the expansion, are they inherently stronger than every non-expansion class? if so we’d be talking about P2W, but that’s not the case here.
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
Hopefully you have realised this already and understand that people quit for this reason
No most players quit because they finished hot already or 95% of it.
And your quantitative data showing most players have stopped playing is where?
And your quantitative data showing most players haven’t stopped playing is where?
HoT’s three scenarios:
1) HoT is wildly successful. It’s attracted a huge, new player base, it’s the talk of the gaming community, servers have been added and the future of GW2 is secure.
2) Hot was meh. It brought in some new players, but also lost about the same amount. In this case, the game’s future is limited. HoT was not sold to it’s investors as a “wash” in revenue.
3) HoT has failed to expand the player base, and is losing players. It’s future is not secure (which might explain the lack of updates). It was a good 3 1/2 year run, but it’s pretty much all down hill from here.
You’d think that Anet would be shouting from the roof tops if the player base has grown tremendously or that it would be evident by having to add new servers, etc.
Which of the three scenarios is most likely?
Burden of proof is on the one making the claims, I’m not claiming anything. You can think whatever thing is most likely you want because either way it’s an misinformed opinion which doesn’t mean much because you have no data to back it up. The claim was “No most players quit because they finished hot already or 95% of it” which is stated as if it were fact. Which requires proof.
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
Again, false. You did not reply to me so maybe ill make it shorter this time. WoW releases expansions that will not punish you directly for not buying it. GW2 does.
People have been saying that GW2 is dying since day one. They’ve all been wrong. I’ll just add this one to the pile.
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
Again, false. You did not reply to me so maybe ill make it shorter this time. WoW releases expansions that will not punish you directly for not buying it. GW2 does.
How does this punish you for not buying it?
Is there a new and more powerful gear tier only available to expansion users, you know, like every other MMO?
Are there new stat boosts, pots or vertical progression systems available only to the expansion users?
Or wait, is it simply that expansion content is only available to expansion users? This content doesn’t give you a direct advantage over other users, therefore it’s not punishing anyone.
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
People have been saying that GW2 is dying since day one. They’ve all been wrong. I’ll just add this one to the pile.
The difference is that on day one they were concentrating on every play style and not just a certain crowd. With the new shift towards verticallity and esports being the main focus many players IMO have had enough.
I know I have, and unless the game shifts back to being fun for me I will continue just log in for my daily. The only reason I continue to do so is in the hopes it improves someday, until I loose interest entirely that is.
I personally enjoyed many aspects of HoT such as specializations, and The Heart of Maguuma maps at the beginning, but…
concerns I have
Once I finished Nevermore (casually and recently) I find little reason ever heading back to these new zones. My interest in the grind and items sold by those zone vendors doesn’t interest me a bit. Ugly weapons/armor, grindy pricy pointless collections/toys (tonics, mini’s), and only one recipe that interested me has me taking a pass. Especially the fact I have done everything in these zones over and over and over etc…
This expansion really doesn’t favor the type of player I am, and why I have been playing GW2 since beta. I don’t enjoy instanced focused mmo’s (It’s the main reason I’m here instead of SWTOR, even though I favor the Star Wars ip), and that’s what HoT has focused on: FOTM, raids, Guild Halls (I still see no point to them), and esports/arena.
I enjoy GW2 for the casual open world, and WvW.
I hope this little insight helps Anet move forward with some great updates.
(edited by Wetpaw.3487)
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
Again, false. You did not reply to me so maybe ill make it shorter this time. WoW releases expansions that will not punish you directly for not buying it. GW2 does.
How does this punish you for not buying it?
Is there a new and more powerful gear tier only available to expansion users, you know, like every other MMO?
Are there new stat boosts, pots or vertical progression systems available only to the expansion users?Or wait, is it simply that expansion content is only available to expansion users? This content doesn’t give you a direct advantage over other users, therefore it’s not punishing anyone.
Give me a list of normal classes that perform equally to the elite specializations in PVP. I dont think this can be argued. There are certain aspects of the expansion also locked behind the expansion but thats PVE, and I think thats pretty legit as any MMO does that.
But within PVP players who only own the core game pose to those who have both the expansion, there is no equal playing ground. Most of the elite specializations excel much better than the core classes and if you do not own the expansion, your punished by being over ran by those classes until you buy the expansion.
My point was that in WoW, they do not do this, as your separated from players who have the expansion but in GW2 you pretty much have to suffer through it until they balance the core classes or tone down the specializations.
Most of the elite specializations excel much better than the core classes and if you do not own the expansion, your punished by being over ran by those classes until you buy the expansion.
Source?
Since this is pretty much the core point for your whole argument, I’m sure you’ve something big to back it up besides “everyone I know says so”
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
What I don’t get is this.
Why do people feel the need to start the inevitable argument about loaded terms like “pay to win”? Why not just say, “I think that Elite Specs are too powerful in comparison to the specs available to owners of vanilla GW2.” Do people really think they’re going to shame Anet into changing things around, or generate more agreement from other forum posters? The results suggest neither are likely.
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
Again, false. You did not reply to me so maybe ill make it shorter this time. WoW releases expansions that will not punish you directly for not buying it. GW2 does.
How does this punish you for not buying it?
…
Guilds and Guild Halls? They blatantly removed features from the base game and gated them behind HoT.
Guild halls removed all benefits a guild could have and removed benefits a guild previously had unlocked, gating the same benefits behind thousands of gold and can only be accessed by leaders with the expansion. New benefits for guilds are also completely obscene in WvW; these benefits are so incredibly massive that server populations have dropped by a full tier’s worth of WvW participation status game-wide. Full/Very High servers are now down to High status, and the number of organized guilds playing within the format who are incapable of getting the funding for the obscene expense that is guild halls are incapable of performing at necessary benchmarks to succeed as they did prior to HoT.
PvP is a complete mess at the moment. Not a single “core” specialization can make it into the competitive scene, and even the weakest of the new elite specializations fail to deliver on the promise of what was supposed to be not a clear advantage from the CEO himself by being innately stronger than core specializations that are intended to hard-counter them. We have seen many professional players call the elite specialization implementations “unbalanced”, “a joke”, “rubbish”, and “destroying sPvP”. We have seen top-tier competitive teams withdraw from the format/game announcing their withdraw based entirely on the imbalance of the elite specializations, bugged gameplay, and overall pitiful attempt to create a fun and exciting environment promised from HoT.
Dungeons and non-HoT gold-earning methods have been nerfed, new stat combinations in HoT are blatantly superior to the old, and all new developments to the game have been formally been announced as requiring the expansion.
There is an absolutely definitive and game-wide requirement of the expansion, otherwise players without it will be blatantly left in the dust due to what can be measured as objectively poorer methods of success across all game modes.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/ES-Suggestion-The-Deadeye-FORMAL/
Anet did not raise the level cap in GW2.
They did, however, add an option to spend real money to buy something that provides an advantage in PvP (at the same character level) over those who do not buy it.
Pay real money to have a competitive advantage over characters of your level.
It fits the term Pay to Win.
That said, I do not think that this is intentional. I believe that Anet did intend for the Elite Specs to be more about variety than power creep. I also believe that Anet intends to address the imbalances, but fully expect that this may take quite some time. Anet has seemed to struggle with game and class balance throughout the game’s history and I do not expect that to change any time soon.
It fits the words pay to win only if you have no experience with how the words are used. It’s like when you see three phone booths and the center one has a sign that says out of order, you don’t wonder if it belongs before the first one or after the third. Not all combinations of three words were meant to be taken literally. According to the urban dictionary this is the definition of pay to win:
“Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.”
Now Guild Wars 2’s HoT wouldn’t fit this definition. You can’t make more powerful items. However, just about every other MMO would fit this definition of pay to win. This is the reason people require context and shouldn’t take words literally.
When Free to play games first came out, some games required you to pump money into the consistently to get anywhere or to be competitive. Those games were considered pay to win.
Every single major MMO has had expansions since the very beginning, and all of them raise the level cap and provide a new tier of gear, without which you can not be competitive
Therefore, by your definition every single MMO is pay to win. But the term wasn’t coined and hasn’t be used to cover expansions. The term has been coined and used to cover microtransactions.
By the literal definition of pay to win, Guild Wars 2 is the least guilty of it compared to any MMO, since it hasn’t raised the level cap or offered a new tier of gear.
The word loses it’s original meaning if you try to use it literally but even then, Guild Wars 2 is an improvement over the competition.
tldr; If you take the words pay to win literally, Guild Wars 2 does better than the competition anyway, but you probably shouldn’t take every term used literally because words have context.
When the definition of what constitutes grind has been contested you referenced wikipedia to support your point. Now, when wikipedia lists purchaseable content, not just gear tiers/etc as fitting the definition of PtW you skip it.
At the same level, as there has been no level increase here, the player who buys the new character options has a competitive advantage over those who do not. Not characters at different levels, potentially in different tiers of competitive play. Same level, in the same arena, different capacity based on who bought what.
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
Again, false. You did not reply to me so maybe ill make it shorter this time. WoW releases expansions that will not punish you directly for not buying it. GW2 does.
How does this punish you for not buying it?
…Guilds and Guild Halls? They blatantly removed features from the base game and gated them behind HoT.
Guild halls removed all benefits a guild could have and removed benefits a guild previously had unlocked, gating the same benefits behind thousands of gold and can only be accessed by leaders with the expansion. New benefits for guilds are also completely obscene in WvW; these benefits are so incredibly massive that server populations have dropped by a full tier’s worth of WvW participation status game-wide. Full/Very High servers are now down to High status, and the number of organized guilds playing within the format who are incapable of getting the funding for the obscene expense that is guild halls are incapable of performing at necessary benchmarks to succeed as they did prior to HoT.
PvP is a complete mess at the moment. Not a single “core” specialization can make it into the competitive scene, and even the weakest of the new elite specializations fail to deliver on the promise of what was supposed to be not a clear advantage from the CEO himself by being innately stronger than core specializations that are intended to hard-counter them. We have seen many professional players call the elite specialization implementations “unbalanced”, “a joke”, “rubbish”, and “destroying sPvP”. We have seen top-tier competitive teams withdraw from the format/game announcing their withdraw based entirely on the imbalance of the elite specializations, bugged gameplay, and overall pitiful attempt to create a fun and exciting environment promised from HoT.
Dungeons and non-HoT gold-earning methods have been nerfed, new stat combinations in HoT are blatantly superior to the old, and all new developments to the game have been formally been announced as requiring the expansion.
There is an absolutely definitive and game-wide requirement of the expansion, otherwise players without it will be blatantly left in the dust due to what can be measured as objectively poorer methods of success across all game modes.
Guild point conceded, sure, but that doesn’t make the whole thing P2W.
Still waiting on a source for the PVP claim.
I still earn my gold with my previous non-HoT methods, so I don’t see your point there. Although I never depended on dungeons, there’s more than 1 method. Got a source for that one?
Out of your 3 claims only 1 can be checked objectively by anyone, the other 2 depend on player experience. If you want’em to be just as true as the first one you need a source. After all, you claim a HUGE portion of the game is kittened up and gated behind a big P2W wall, looking foward to it.
forum dwellers would go nuts about the need to
“grind” to get exp, new swords, new potions etc
Stop relating to WoW’s level cap, gw2 doesnt have this and you look like an idiot. The elite specs are new so people want to use them, you’re right. but when someone that has never played engi before runs a scrapper and beats experienced players just because the class is overpowered. a normal engi vs a scrapper the scrapper is bound to win. And this i believe is what Anet tried to do by getting as much pocket money out of all of you that have purchased HoT because you PAYED MONEY FOR IT the classes ( or Elite Specs) are going to be stronger than the normal class itself, and if eventually Anet realises this, they still won’t make Elite Specs balanced to normal classes? why would they? you have payed money to get the elite specs so why would they give people who have payed money an equal chance to play the game towards people who only have the orginal GW2. it’s simple. why would you?
Obviously Anet is try to make money from you.
So is every mmorpg in the world. Every mmorpg in the world is either trying to sell expansion or is pay to win or is dying(the game company give up). Why do you expect Anet to be any different.
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
Again, false. You did not reply to me so maybe ill make it shorter this time. WoW releases expansions that will not punish you directly for not buying it. GW2 does.
So what do you expect Anet to do.
Let people that didn’t buy expansion form their small pvp community, and have really long queue time?
Stop relating to WoW’s level cap, gw2 doesnt have this and you look like an idiot. The elite specs are new so people want to use them, you’re right. but when someone that has never played engi before runs a scrapper and beats experienced players just because the class is overpowered. a normal engi vs a scrapper the scrapper is bound to win. And this i believe is what Anet tried to do by getting as much pocket money out of all of you that have purchased HoT because you PAYED MONEY FOR IT the classes ( or Elite Specs) are going to be stronger than the normal class itself, and if eventually Anet realises this, they still won’t make Elite Specs balanced to normal classes? why would they? you have payed money to get the elite specs so why would they give people who have payed money an equal chance to play the game towards people who only have the orginal GW2. it’s simple. why would you?
Obviously Anet is try to make money from you.
So is every mmorpg in the world. Every mmorpg in the world is either trying to sell expansion or is pay to win or is dying(the game company give up). Why do you expect Anet to be any different.
So perhaps they should sell the expansion on its own merits rather than by devaluing the original game?
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
Again, false. You did not reply to me so maybe ill make it shorter this time. WoW releases expansions that will not punish you directly for not buying it. GW2 does.
So what do you expect Anet to do.
Let people that didn’t buy expansion form their small pvp community, and have really long queue time?
To balance the core classes as they should have from the get go before HoT released, or tone down some of specializations so that the core classes can compete also in pvp.
(edited by Uriel.6310)
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
Again, false. You did not reply to me so maybe ill make it shorter this time. WoW releases expansions that will not punish you directly for not buying it. GW2 does.
So what do you expect Anet to do.
Let people that didn’t buy expansion form their small pvp community, and have really long queue time?
To balance the core classes as they should from the get go before HoT released instead of band-aiding the game with the new specializations, or tone down some of specializations so that the core classes can compete also.
Since you know so much about Wow. Is that how wow do it? Let pvper that dont’ buy expansion to compete with pvper that buy expansion?
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
Again, false. You did not reply to me so maybe ill make it shorter this time. WoW releases expansions that will not punish you directly for not buying it. GW2 does.
So what do you expect Anet to do.
Let people that didn’t buy expansion form their small pvp community, and have really long queue time?
To balance the core classes as they should from the get go before HoT released instead of band-aiding the game with the new specializations, or tone down some of specializations so that the core classes can compete also.
Since you know so much about Wow. Is that how wow do it? Let pvper that dont’ buy expansion to compete with pvper that buy expansion?
Can a player who has increased his character level through an expansion take that character into a lower level bracket?
Or is a player who did not buy the expansion able to remain in his bracket facing characters of his level?
Most of the elite specializations excel much better than the core classes and if you do not own the expansion, your punished by being over ran by those classes until you buy the expansion.
Source?
Since this is pretty much the core point for your whole argument, I’m sure you’ve something big to back it up besides “everyone I know says so”
Well I don’t really like metabattle, but it still give you an idea. The 5 ’’Meta’’ build are Elite spec and 7 of the 12 ’’good’’ build are elite spec. But like i said, it’s just meta battle.
A better source would be stats on which profession/elite are played the most (especially in higher league) and in PvP tournament. I don’t follow the latter enough to give you stats on them, from what I have seen the vast majority of builds used in those tournament are elite spec. I remember a post here on the forum, but I couldn’t find it anymore. It was listing the build used in one of those tournament. It was early after the expansion so maybe not the best look, but still, there was 1 non elite build out of the 5 team or 5 players.
You can also see that in PvE. The only meta build not using the elite is condi Engineer.
Guild Wars 2 didn’t raise the expansion. You can, in fact, still compete without having the expansion. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 is less pay to win than any of the competition.
Again, false. You did not reply to me so maybe ill make it shorter this time. WoW releases expansions that will not punish you directly for not buying it. GW2 does.
You’re directly unable to compete in WoW or even reach level cap unless you buy the expansion. You can’t get the top tier of gear in WoW without buying the expansion. In what way is this not punishing?
What if someone else “just knows” that it’s doing fine. What do we do then?
Hitchen’s razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.No. In the absence of information, you construct reasoned scenarios and weigh the risk/rewards.
You must not work in the applied sciences, am I right?
I do and I don’t see any of what you are talking about happening in this thread.
[Thank you for the feedback and discussion. The topic appears to have been brought full circle, it is now closed.]