Guild Wars 2

We all (presumably) saw what happened to the last group of people who went hunting dragons in Tyria. Despite all the airships bristling with guns, despite all the massively focused firepower, it didn’t (ahem) end well. For someone — some one — to call himself (or herself) a ‘dragonhunter’…

It’s just silly. In my sainted opinion, of course.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

well, it would be very easy to simply call it “Hunter”. …

Oh, come on. Half the population of this game already refers to rangers as hunters. We don’t need the extra semantic confusion.

see that’s what I thought off. It just seems that the Dragonhunter utility and main skills seem like repetitions as the other class already have them. The title also is not a great title. I mean we are all Dragonhunters to a tee, their are 7 Elder dragons. So like I was saying perhaps focusing on Healing, Smiting or just the use of Holy would be more productive. Different arms and a different flavor would make it better as well. It just feels like rinse and repeat again. And I don’t really see the value with the same skills, want traps play a Ranger, want a unique shot play a thief, etc etc.

I do want to say something about titles though. See if they went with Smite you could call it a Zealot. If they want more Holy or Smite on a Weapon I’d like to suggest Crusader, Templar or something along that line. A weapon like a bow does not fit this type of character. I mean if your Asian perhaps but Europeans and Americans this isn’t going to fit. Also the only Warrior class that really used a longbow (which by the way is a European Title) was the Samurai or the Ninja. The Ninja fits more to say a Thief class though and the Samurai would be more fitting a Warrior class.

One question: What the line “I must be as relentless as justice itself” has to do with a hunter? a dragonhunter*

Hunters are Judges and Defenders of Justice now?

Very innovative indeed, never heard of something similar before :O

Druid = A ranger that harnessed the power of the Jungle
Chronomancer = A mesmer that can use the temporal power that keeps the Jungle so still in time
Dragonhunter = A guardian that protects Tyria by killing the dragons in the Jungle

The names make sense. Dragonhunter sucks, I agree, but it makes sense.

Jaken.6801:

Timemagic was always part of the Mesmer (timewarp for example) and it is described as manipulating the mind of the enemy.
For all we know the new chrono magic is still mind manipulation on a higher level and subsequently still part of the Mesmers abilities. Just a mesmer who focuses more on that part.

Okay Jaken I need to respond to this. Memser were never about Timemagic to begin with. If you look back at the original Memser’s (Guildwars 1) they were designed to trick people with illusions, control minds with Domination and Inspire their allies with abilities to help buff them. Time magic really isn’t something for the memser. I would think it would fall more on the Arcane if anything. When Gw2 first came out they were attempting this with the memser and its never really fit the class. I still don’t’ think it fits the class.

Right now there are a lot of people pushing for their one preferred rename, which I find to be distracting from the issue of the inappropriateness of the ‘Dragonhunter’ name. It gets a little tiring hearing about the same ten or so names being lauded as the “perfect fit” for the elite specialization. That comes across as too divisive and dogmatic.

I suggest that people should provide a suggested list of possible acceptable alternative names as opposed to fanatically pushing one particular name.

macon.4065:

Jaken.6801:

Timemagic was always part of the Mesmer (timewarp for example) and it is described as manipulating the mind of the enemy.
For all we know the new chrono magic is still mind manipulation on a higher level and subsequently still part of the Mesmers abilities. Just a mesmer who focuses more on that part.

Okay Jaken I need to respond to this. Memser were never about Timemagic to begin with. If you look back at the original Memser’s (Guildwars 1) they were designed to trick people with illusions, control minds with Domination and Inspire their allies with abilities to help buff them. Time magic really isn’t something for the memser. I would think it would fall more on the Arcane if anything. When Gw2 first came out they were attempting this with the memser and its never really fit the class. I still don’t’ think it fits the class.

Not necessarily time magic, but Mesmers always had the ability to manipulate reality, so it’s not a stretch to think they can do the same with time.

Eric Flannum:
“For the record the GW1 Mesmer has never been just about illusions and messing with peoples minds. They have always had the ability to manipulate raw magical energy as embodied by the skill chaos storm. Arcane thievery is not the mesmer tricking someones mind but rather them manipulating magical energies. The same goes for some of their interrupts such as cry of frustration. This has always been the intent behind the mesmer.”
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/21429-does-the-new-mesmer-fit-the-old-mesmer-lore/page__st__90

Derigar.7810:

Druid = A ranger that harnessed the power of the Jungle
Chronomancer = A mesmer that can use the temporal power that keeps the Jungle so still in time
Dragonhunter = A guardian that protects Tyria by killing the dragons in the Jungle

The names make sense. Dragonhunter sucks, I agree, but it makes sense.

Hmm… No, sorry.
Even if it did, it wouldn’t make sense the way you think.
Why do you want to make a link between the specs and the jungle btw ? Nobody ever mentionned they should be in connection.
Chronomancer have no link with the jungle, and so does the Dragonhunter. Dragons are not only in the jungle, and I don’t think the jungle is frozen in time.

macon.4065:

Okay Jaken I need to respond to this. Memser were never about Timemagic to begin with. If you look back at the original Memser’s (Guildwars 1) they were designed to trick people with illusions, control minds with Domination and Inspire their allies with abilities to help buff them. Time magic really isn’t something for the memser. I would think it would fall more on the Arcane if anything. When Gw2 first came out they were attempting this with the memser and its never really fit the class. I still don’t’ think it fits the class.

Mesmer already had 2 time related skills and if you don’t like Eric Flannum’s explanation just know that chronomancy is often understood as illusions and manipulations making you believe the time is manipulated even if it doesn’t for real.
It may not be the best fitting thing but still does the job pretty well.

macon.4065:

A weapon like a bow does not fit this type of character. I mean if your Asian perhaps but Europeans and Americans this isn’t going to fit.

Meh, I don’t think we need to constantly pander to specific cultures. Either completely divorce from earthly concepts or embrace a large enough variety so that you’re not being pigeon holed into a specific culture/era.

I think bow works perfectly for Guardian. Just make the concept a more calculating, chessmaster-type that uses his powers of faith and light as a means of cornering injustice vs the more crusader-type charging in to smite people like the current Guardian.

What kind of cultural style you get from it then (your European Inquisitor or Asian Zen Archer or what have you) is then dependent on what weapon skin and armor you put on.

I’ve read through everything and I think I am beginning to see the confusion everyone is having. Its not the title its what you all think this class is going to be in the end. Its confusing I have to be the first to admit. I can’t help but wonder if the original Guildwars Theme fits here more. Now I’ve never been a huge Mesmer fan but as I posted earlier the Mesmer was never intended to be a time magic kinda class. The original Mesmer was designed for Illusion, Domination and Inspiration all backgrounds that intended to trick the mind, control the mind or add buffs to a group. I’m sorry I’m one of those folks that never really liked what GW2 did with that class. As for the Guardian it seems like the ability of the guardian to do these new things (Dragonhunter) is actually a bit confusing. Originally the title of Dragonhunter belonged to a warrior class – typically they were warriors brought together for a single purpose to kill evil Dragons (ex. St. George and the Dragon). The Guardian class which I always saw as a Holy Warrior using both might and holiness to protect and heal are more in line with Warriors that worked in Temples and Churches to protect them, their parishioners and the area. (For ex. The Knight Templar was a Holy order created originally to protect people journeying from Europe to the Holy Land) If you want to develop this class to be more wanted by others we got to look at what the class does and what is needed not recreating what is already their. Makes no sense to use a bow while a Guardian can use a wand or a staff. However, how about allowing this new specialization to go into say something like a Holy Knight Class. For example Holy power being added to a weapon now, Smiting for the undead, protection in the forms of domes and healing or buffs to support those in distress. As for the title we are all dragon hunting now so its a play on words. However, case in point the Whole PACT is Dragonhunters. Templar, Crusader and Vindicator or even Inquisitor have all been associated with a Holy Warrior with a quest – yes you can add Paladin to this as well. Which means we are still dealing with a Melee class not a ranged class. Now I know that people are getting fixed on the fact that these classes can now use other types of weapons but it doesn’t fit what we have for the stereotypes of the Warrior, Thief, Cleric and Mage idea. So either we go with it or we don’t – but if your going to add weapons don’t change the class by adding existing weapons that’s just making them all plain Jane – its also going to alienate other classes that already have those abilities. Here’s a suggestion for weapons for the Classes:

Now these are just suggestions to develop these specializations and work with what is already present in the game. With the new weapons you can introduce some cross over skills for example a Truncheon could very well be a necromantic version of the Wand. The Large Two handed weapons make more sense as well, we already have staff and Greatsword, The Great Axe, Club and Polearm would be the next logical steps.

Opps forgot to add the class weapon suggestions here they are:

Warrior – Two Handed Axe (let’s face it everyone wants this, I’ve see a lot of posts on this). Think Barbarian perhaps with some pets – Wolf, Hound, and say Bear.

Guardian – Spear (one we can use on land) think of Spear of Destiny if you need a focus to look at.

Thief – This class was pretty messed up when you added hand guns and made him more of a outlaw/gunslinger than a thief. A thief is an individual who does not use magic items or uses things that make them warriors because they aren’t. They are the Black Markets, Thugs, Burglar, who lives by the seat of their pants on their skills and wits. Invisibility is a tool to do things like pick pocket or even hide. I’d recommend that you do hand to hand skills with the thief it fits more with the Survival a thief works in Large Cities where they work the most. Some other skills could be used here as well like climbing up a wall that is sheer (Spider Climb), Hiding in plain sight, Poisons (different poisons can do different things even heal), and of course the jewel in the thief’s crown Stealth for a longer period of time.

Ranger – The problem we have here is the Ranger is pretty much a thief in the Wild but their are a few things that you can do. For example let a Ranger use a Rife same as a long bow but a little more powerful. You could add a Sniper concept to the ranger and possible add new pets with a different skill set.

Necromancer – A Greatsword with a necro makes no sense. Lets face it they were designed to work Black Magic not run around with a sword killing people. I’d reintroduce the Truncheon to the class. But add a flare to it, make it swell with darkness. New Minions to round out your Minion Master could work as well. But Necros already have specializations – here they are Conditionmancer, Powermancer, and Minion Master. If you want something like an evil warrior do an antiguardian.

Elementalist – I hate to say this but you already have your specializations for this class. If an Elementalist focuses on Air they are Airomancer’s, Fire – Firemancer, Water – Watermancer and Earth – earthmancer. It simply means that the elementalist focused on perfecting one element over the others. Added weapons to this class cold be say something directly connected to the element like a Talisman or a Wand perhaps made from the element. The growth you have for this is in the Arcane though You can have a spellcaster(full blown Archmage who’s mastered the Arcane and plumbed the secrets or Magic), Alchamist, even the dreaded Evocation.

Engineer – Never really figured out what an Engineer has to do with the Medieval Ages much less Fantasy they always seemed to me to be more Science Fiction than Fantasy to me. However, I’d like to see you take the wrench from the kit and put it as a weapon. Think more inline of Inventor/ Gadgeteer, even science usage like Biology, Chemistry and oh and the big one Physics. They would more than likely follow the science end of things – what the asura call the different forms of the Great Alchemy.
You could even think about a hand weapon called a mallet for them. Someone might even call it a warhammer.

macon.4065:

see that’s what I thought off. It just seems that the Dragonhunter utility and main skills seem like repetitions as the other class already have them. The title also is not a great title. I mean we are all Dragonhunters to a tee, their are 7 Elder dragons. So like I was saying perhaps focusing on Healing, Smiting or just the use of Holy would be more productive. Different arms and a different flavor would make it better as well. It just feels like rinse and repeat again. And I don’t really see the value with the same skills, want traps play a Ranger, want a unique shot play a thief, etc etc.

I do want to say something about titles though. See if they went with Smite you could call it a Zealot. If they want more Holy or Smite on a Weapon I’d like to suggest Crusader, Templar or something along that line. A weapon like a bow does not fit this type of character. I mean if your Asian perhaps but Europeans and Americans this isn’t going to fit. Also the only Warrior class that really used a longbow (which by the way is a European Title) was the Samurai or the Ninja. The Ninja fits more to say a Thief class though and the Samurai would be more fitting a Warrior class.

That’s the most ignorant, racist, comment I’ve seen on these post. What’s Bows got to do with Asians or Americans? If this game had anything to do with our planet, don’t you know that bows been used all around the world!

Bows do fit Guardians… In fact, ANET showed a great demonstration of that on Friday. Why would a guardian not be able to use a Bow but a Warrior can? I can understand if you said a rifle or a pistol, but why not a bow. What is so impressive about a bow that a Guardian could never specialize in this weapon? Is it too technologically advance that it’s seems out of place with his sheer skills, knowledge of magic, and spiritual connection?

I like the name “Dragonhunter” I’d say – keep it!

macon.4065:

Opps forgot to add the class weapon suggestions here they are:

Warrior – Two Handed Axe (let’s face it everyone wants this, I’ve see a lot of posts on this). Think Barbarian perhaps with some pets – Wolf, Hound, and say Bear.

Guardian – Spear (one we can use on land) think of Spear of Destiny if you need a focus to look at.

Thief – This class was pretty messed up when you added hand guns and made him more of a outlaw/gunslinger than a thief. A thief is an individual who does not use magic items or uses things that make them warriors because they aren’t. They are the Black Markets, Thugs, Burglar, who lives by the seat of their pants on their skills and wits. Invisibility is a tool to do things like pick pocket or even hide. I’d recommend that you do hand to hand skills with the thief it fits more with the Survival a thief works in Large Cities where they work the most. Some other skills could be used here as well like climbing up a wall that is sheer (Spider Climb), Hiding in plain sight, Poisons (different poisons can do different things even heal), and of course the jewel in the thief’s crown Stealth for a longer period of time.

Ranger – The problem we have here is the Ranger is pretty much a thief in the Wild but their are a few things that you can do. For example let a Ranger use a Rife same as a long bow but a little more powerful. You could add a Sniper concept to the ranger and possible add new pets with a different skill set.

Necromancer – A Greatsword with a necro makes no sense. Lets face it they were designed to work Black Magic not run around with a sword killing people. I’d reintroduce the Truncheon to the class. But add a flare to it, make it swell with darkness. New Minions to round out your Minion Master could work as well. But Necros already have specializations – here they are Conditionmancer, Powermancer, and Minion Master. If you want something like an evil warrior do an antiguardian.

Elementalist – I hate to say this but you already have your specializations for this class. If an Elementalist focuses on Air they are Airomancer’s, Fire – Firemancer, Water – Watermancer and Earth – earthmancer. It simply means that the elementalist focused on perfecting one element over the others. Added weapons to this class cold be say something directly connected to the element like a Talisman or a Wand perhaps made from the element. The growth you have for this is in the Arcane though You can have a spellcaster(full blown Archmage who’s mastered the Arcane and plumbed the secrets or Magic), Alchamist, even the dreaded Evocation.

Engineer – Never really figured out what an Engineer has to do with the Medieval Ages much less Fantasy they always seemed to me to be more Science Fiction than Fantasy to me. However, I’d like to see you take the wrench from the kit and put it as a weapon. Think more inline of Inventor/ Gadgeteer, even science usage like Biology, Chemistry and oh and the big one Physics. They would more than likely follow the science end of things – what the asura call the different forms of the Great Alchemy.
You could even think about a hand weapon called a mallet for them. Someone might even call it a warhammer.

You think this game has to do with the middle ages… hmm… what do you think about He-man and the Masters of the Universe, Thunder Cats, Heavy Metal? Just because it has a fantasy theme to it doesn’t mean it’s Medieval! Even Clash of the Titans had a robotic owl!

Hate to bust your bubble guy but a post earlier did indicate that this was a Medieval, Fantasy atmosphere. And what I had to say about the Bow had nothing to do with racism it had to do with the history of the bow around the world. A Longbow name with what we see in the game was traditionally in Europe. Asia and the Middle East had very different looking bows. The Samurai in Japan had bows that you had to be standing straight to use and was big as a full grown man.

I’d also like to point out that no a longbow and a Guardian do not make sense. The Guardian already has two ranged weapons the wand and the Staff. Of which the Staff has become what quite a bit of Guardians use now. And as for Anet’s demonstration they were unveiling the class specialization. You might want to read some back and on the posts from the Dev’s regarding this. As indicated I am not the only with these sentiments. However, please do keep in mind that I was drawing from World History based on area – the bow itself could have different forms dependent on what people are feeling for – in other words why a longbow.

Liked the ready up, name still doesn’t fit.
in Dev Tracker
Posted by: JonPeters
A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.
Thanks,
Jon

I had to post this for you Vocal. This is in the Dev chat. As you can see as the Medieval Witch Hunter, generic fantasy etc. This game was meant to be in that era.

macon.4065:

Jaken.6801:

Timemagic was always part of the Mesmer (timewarp for example) and it is described as manipulating the mind of the enemy.
For all we know the new chrono magic is still mind manipulation on a higher level and subsequently still part of the Mesmers abilities. Just a mesmer who focuses more on that part.

Okay Jaken I need to respond to this. Memser were never about Timemagic to begin with. If you look back at the original Memser’s (Guildwars 1) they were designed to trick people with illusions, control minds with Domination and Inspire their allies with abilities to help buff them. Time magic really isn’t something for the memser. I would think it would fall more on the Arcane if anything. When Gw2 first came out they were attempting this with the memser and its never really fit the class. I still don’t’ think it fits the class.

Read again what I have written.
I read that the description of the Chronomancer in the blog post makes it more like an illusion, controling the perception of the enemy (though the blogpost also contradicts itself with talking about taking time literaly).
I was only referairing that time influencing illusions were allready in the toolbox of the Mesmer and with the blogpost description it makes sense.

macon.4065:

Hate to bust your bubble guy but a post earlier did indicate that this was a Medieval, Fantasy atmosphere. And what I had to say about the Bow had nothing to do with racism it had to do with the history of the bow around the world. A Longbow name with what we see in the game was traditionally in Europe. Asia and the Middle East had very different looking bows. The Samurai in Japan had bows that you had to be standing straight to use and was big as a full grown man.

Which is the problem. The design is based around a medievil archetype, however the game is not.
The original game was mostly based on medievil fanatasy, while Guild Wars 2 is designed around the fantasy more akin to Steampunk.
As we have no timeline for the “creation” of the Dragonhunter, they would need to give us an explanation on why they use a bow (though I don`t mind actually).
If we see the the conflict between Japanese and Americans in the colonial days, the rifle (and more modern equivalents like rapid fire guns which started to emerge at that time if I am not mistaken) won against the bow most of the time.

macon.4065:

Engineer – Never really figured out what an Engineer has to do with the Medieval Ages much less Fantasy they always seemed to me to be more Science Fiction than Fantasy to me. However, I’d like to see you take the wrench from the kit and put it as a weapon. Think more inline of Inventor/ Gadgeteer, even science usage like Biology, Chemistry and oh and the big one Physics. They would more than likely follow the science end of things – what the asura call the different forms of the Great Alchemy.
You could even think about a hand weapon called a mallet for them. Someone might even call it a warhammer.

You are aware of the steampunk background of this class? That it is a bit of a homage to the Team Fortess 2 Engineer and that everything we “summon” are actually turrets the engineer build himself?
He is the genius behind them. He developed it, etc.
If you play an engineer in the LS, you even have only him coment on mechanical things.
There are different strokes of fantasy out there and the Engineer is the tinkerer, the builder, the one who is able to mcgyver you a catapult out of gum, a cow and a fitting tree.

This game is not medievil fantasy. It is a mix. We have scifi, we have industrial, we have nordic and we have renessaince. There is no real restriction here, aside from the fact that magic is more involved and replaces a lot of modern technologic advances.
The most technologic advanced are the Charr.
The most magitech advanced are the Asura.
Then we got the humans with their mechancial puppets.

I think enough feedback and response has been given to Anet from the community, particularly on the name “Dragonhunter”

I’ve read a lot of well-sounded and fleshed out arguments and reviews on the theme of this elite spec.

And the reaction from the community was pretty unanimous, and the discontent with the name was to my surprise, the MAJORITY.

The question is “What is Anet gonna do about it?” We’re all hoping they’d do something about it, so far we got a paragraph justification from Jon Peters which contradicts what was said in the blog and the livestream ready up, not to mention it’s politically deflective nature.

Is Anet gonna dish out a poll of alternative names the community can vote for? are they gonna change the name partially? completely?

I’d much prefer if an Anet dev responded to what action they will take, so we can be pro-active about it and continue on.

With utmost Sincerity, Tzozef.
(please don’t merge this thread)

Tzozef.9841:

Is Anet gonna dish out a poll of alternative names the community can vote for? are they gonna change the name partially? completely?

I’d much prefer if an Anet dev responded to what action they will take, so we can be pro-active about it and continue on.

With utmost Sincerity, Tzozef.
(please don’t merge this thread)

I respect how John took it upon himself to reach out to the community in regards to the Tomb changes. But I understand that Anet can’t blatantly ask for our opinions on every aspect of the game, only the crucial, “i really have no clue what they’d like best” type inquiries.

If it takes Anet additional resource where production is halted just to change a class name then I rather just leave it where it is. imo, don’t flame me!

I would love for them to make a sticky thread and allow us to vote on our name for the next couple of weeks. Given the time sensitive nature and the fact that they intend HoT to be released this fall, I doubt they would sacrifice production costs to change a name that most people won’t care about in 2016.

Hopefully that’s not the case and the name can indeed be altered very easily.

Despite your irrational complaining about the name, don’t start labeling anything as unanimous or even majority. The forums represent a very small portion of the player base and the people most likely to comment on the forums are people who want to cry about something. Anet has better statistics than you.

Hmm.. very interesting points you have their Jaken. I have had some experience with the Steam punk genre. However, it seems misplaced in a world of swords, etc. But I do know that these also exist in the Steampunk ideology. Just seems to me they could have accomplished this with say crossbows rather than pistols. I mean this game is competing with many other games out their and I hardly ever seem them combined – Perhaps Rifts would be an exception though. I’ve always felt that this game could not only be the best but could overcome the other games of their type. I just feel that the technological aspect of the game hinders it not helps it. However, in the interest of our conversation how do you feel that this particular class fits in with the game? After all really the only tech builders that I can see in the game is the Aura and possible the Iron Legion. I just think cannon versus sword how do you compare this? Same with a rifle say versus the longbow? And I have played the engineer I’m just not seeing the reasoning behind this class in this particular game. Perhaps a better explanation for this would be more understood. I’d also like to know how many players in the game play the individual classes, perhaps a feeling from the others would give more insight. But some of the classes have gotten a lot of negative attention as are these specializations everyone is talking about. The Engineer just like pistols for a Thief (which now should actually be called a gunslinger) have their place I’m just not certain it fits this particular play. I have not recalled any other MMORPG or Desk Game base that really combines fantasy with scifi. Personally the Scifi is more futuristic with modern things. The fantasy is more say Conan, WOW or perhaps Dungeons and Dragons like. As I did state above I believe that Rifts might be an exception as would be Cyberpunk etc. But these games also were not as popular as say the straight fantasy genre like say Dungeons and Dragons and even the MMORPGH World of Warcraft. I feel that in order to achieve a name and go above these popular games we need to incorporate some of the missing elements that these games have installed. Name it what you will but the core story of this game is based in Fantasy (Gods, Dragons, questing and even the fractals and land). Even the Airships were pushing the envelope. I am however, curious what you see with technology in the game, perhaps I am overlooking something or missing a point where a melding of the two concepts can be joined together? Please explain your take on this.

I genuinely was expecting something.. More.. Uhg – advanced within the whole idea of ‘Guardians’. All of a sudden bouncing to Dragon Hunter is off putting and very misleading.

Guardian is indeed a good support role but I feel this new Dragon Hunter spec is just another ‘ranger’ with other.. support. I hope there is balance (good damage with support).

Yes, of course the Guardian needed a longer ranged weapon but the way they’ve gone about it seems underwhelming; perhaps that entire video didn’t portray it.. Properly? Good enough? I am fishing for the right word here but one things for sure – Dragon Hunter is not doing it for me.

If Anet wants to push for a name that means in pursuit of justice in war (with Dragons being the reason for injustice), while staying special Then they could call this specialization Constable. A Constable is a High ranking officers of the crown in mid-evil times, that’s in charge of the Military Police maintaining the Law, and they fight on the front with the King’s and nobility.

Here http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constable_of_France

Not change the name of a traitline based on the whining of an incredibly small vocal minority.

Give everyone that created a whine thread the in-game title: Dragonhunter.

Dragon Hunter? Sounds generic, no creativity at all.

Please rename it to: xXxShadoWKillerxXx

Harvest.2506:

If Anet wants to push for a name that means in pursuit of justice in war (with Dragons being the reason for injustice), while staying special Then they could call this specialization Constable. A Constable is a High ranking officers of the crown in mid-evil times, that’s in charge of the Military Police maintaining the Law, and they fight on the front with the King’s and nobility.

Here http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constable_of_France

That would be a good idea too, there are alot of ideas in this thread really!

macon.4065:

Hmm.. very interesting points you have their Jaken. I have had some experience with the Steam punk genre. However, it seems misplaced in a world of swords, etc. But I do know that these also exist in the Steampunk ideology. Just seems to me they could have accomplished this with say crossbows rather than pistols. I mean this game is competing with many other games out their and I hardly ever seem them combined – Perhaps Rifts would be an exception though. I’ve always felt that this game could not only be the best but could overcome the other games of their type. I just feel that the technological aspect of the game hinders it not helps it. However, in the interest of our conversation how do you feel that this particular class fits in with the game? After all really the only tech builders that I can see in the game is the Aura and possible the Iron Legion. I just think cannon versus sword how do you compare this? Same with a rifle say versus the longbow? And I have played the engineer I’m just not seeing the reasoning behind this class in this particular game. Perhaps a better explanation for this would be more understood. I’d also like to know how many players in the game play the individual classes, perhaps a feeling from the others would give more insight. But some of the classes have gotten a lot of negative attention as are these specializations everyone is talking about. The Engineer just like pistols for a Thief (which now should actually be called a gunslinger) have their place I’m just not certain it fits this particular play. I have not recalled any other MMORPG or Desk Game base that really combines fantasy with scifi. Personally the Scifi is more futuristic with modern things. The fantasy is more say Conan, WOW or perhaps Dungeons and Dragons like. As I did state above I believe that Rifts might be an exception as would be Cyberpunk etc. But these games also were not as popular as say the straight fantasy genre like say Dungeons and Dragons and even the MMORPGH World of Warcraft. I feel that in order to achieve a name and go above these popular games we need to incorporate some of the missing elements that these games have installed. Name it what you will but the core story of this game is based in Fantasy (Gods, Dragons, questing and even the fractals and land). Even the Airships were pushing the envelope. I am however, curious what you see with technology in the game, perhaps I am overlooking something or missing a point where a melding of the two concepts can be joined together? Please explain your take on this.

I feel you’re trying to think this game in a more medieval stasis type genre which is what’s making you not understand. All those settings (except Conan) you listed has a heavy presence of technology in it making it more steam punk/magitech/clock punk than high fantasy of LOTR. WoW has guns, nukes, tanks, helicopters, submarines – DnD has some magitech settings too with warforged and spelljammer.

Mind you I’m on my phone so I can’t really go into detail.

misterdevious.6482:

The name should be:

1. Evocative/Meaningful
2. Distinct
3. Most Appropriate as a subset of the chosen Profession
4. Appropriate in the game world in general
5. Suggestive of the mechanics/skills of the specialization.
6. Not something that makes a large number of people cringe when seeing it.

Dragonhunter failed the cringe test, the most appropriate test, and the distinct test. Druid passes all 6. Chronomancer passes all 6.

Not sure if you just pulled these guidelines out of your kitten, but I like them and think they definitely make the issues with the “dragonhunter” name clear and dissectable.

I have to wonder if the reason they came up with Dragonhunter was because Paragon was taken as the PVP achievement title…

Dante.1763:

Harvest.2506:

If Anet wants to push for a name that means in pursuit of justice in war (with Dragons being the reason for injustice), while staying special Then they could call this specialization Constable. A Constable is a High ranking officers of the crown in mid-evil times, that’s in charge of the Military Police maintaining the Law, and they fight on the front with the King’s and nobility.

Here http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constable_of_France

That would be a good idea too, there are alot of ideas in this thread really!

I’m just trying Really hard to savage what I can from Jon ‘s meaning man. I don’t have much space now that they’ve steered the concept to the wall.

It’s most likely they want to give paragon to us later When it’s ready As a different specialization. For this one with the longbow it needed to be different. They should just rename it to Seeker if that’s the case.

Hi,

Any chance Anet may reconsider the name, or are we fighting an already lost battle here ?

Antares.2586:

Hi,

Any chance Anet may reconsider the name, or are we fighting an already lost battle here ?

Honestly that’s not really up to us. But given that they don’t want to openly concede that we may have a point, it doesn’t look all that likely. Stranger things have happened though. Considering that the expansion is still in development, they could always change the name in regards to player feedback. Though once it is officially released then it is probably set in stone.

One thing that could come out from this is that future specializations may at least be named without locking the player into a rigid ideology like the Dragonhunter’s fanaticism. It probably wasn’t even on their radar until users raised their concerns.

Hello!

Another person here throwing in their vote for the name to be changed to Arbiter!

Not only do I think “Dragonhunter” sounds a little generic, I also feel that it’s arbitrarily “excludes” an entire race (the Sylvari) simply by the fact that the definition being given to us is technically about hunting them since they’re counted as being dragon minions.

It’d be like if they make the Thief specialization “Charr-Killer.” That’d be one awkward name to carry for all the Charr thieves.

New specialisation name: Lego Lass

All Guardian longbow users are turned into female models made from Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene.

The community lashed out when ArenaNet tried to sell Human cultural Light Tier 3 on the gemstore. That got changed.

But I guess that involved money, so it’s a different story.

The main problem is about players and their perception of the profession.

If your RP is about playing a girl that does stuff somewhere, you can do it with any profession. Your mesmer does your stuff and even if she becomes a chronomancer, she can continue to do that stuff but this time with time travel ! (It’s even more awesome).

Exemple: My mesmer likes to fool peoples in wvw with her mesmer tricks become My chronomancer likes to fool peoples in wvw with her time tricks.

Now, let do the same with guardian: My guardian likes to protect Dolyak in wvw, take towers or whatever. It’s become: My Dragon Hunter likes to set trap to protect Dolyak (yes, Dragon Hunter uses traps !) and uses her bow to kill bad peoples trying to take my towers….hm wait ? Where are the dragons ? I’m not a dragon hunter anymore if i don’t kill dragons ? Maybe a retired dragon hunter that does wvw ? Aaaaahhhhhhhhh mindbreak.

Now if the dragon hunter traits were:
- 20% dmg against dragon and dragon minion.
- If a dragon minion is caught in your trap then it is stuck for 5 sec
- ect…

Ok, if you become a dragon hunter, it’s for killing dragon, if you don’t want to kill them, don’t become a dragon hunter. For the time, the profession has nothing to do about killing dragons.

It’s kind of a dilemma where if they incorporated the Dragonhunter theme into the skills then there would be complaints that they have an unfair advantage when fighting Dragons and their minions. But by having no clear advantage when fighting Dragons, it makes the name Dragonhunter seem either redundant or a misnomer. The only way it works is if the personal motivation of your character falls in line with lore that we aren’t even sure exists with any real depth.

Some hope for an in game faction of Dragonhunters to the level of the Pale Reavers. Though it’s concerning that there will be a force that is intent on eradicating Dragon minions (which include Mordrem Sylvari who are victims of subjugation and could be saved by severing Mordremoth’s control). It’s one thing for the player to have no choice but to fight Mordrem Sylvari, it’s another for them to fanatically search them out in order to kill. It raises a bit of a moral dilemma that if you choose the Guardian specialization, you go from a protector of innocents to one that seeks to eradicate the impure Sylvari. It’s a bit of a 180 in terms of ethics. It separates the professions into those who could be described as inherently neutral and those who could be characterised as zealots by nature.

I also wonder what the stance would be a Dragonhunter in regards to Glint’s egg? I doubt they’d hunt it down just to raise it.

I’ve also seen it said that the throwing around of “big game hunting” applies some negative connotations to the Guardian. Especially since the term is often used in the context of shooting animals for sport or for trophies.

Its just a name for god sakes if you are so hung up that its a stupid name don’t play the specialization till they add another one for guardian. For those people going “its a stupid name, Anet change it now” no Anet don’t listen to them yes its not the best name but you know what so what it doesn’t affect the playstyle of the class or the flavor of the class we have to live with it.

Wwefan.4982:

Its just a name for god sakes if you are so hung up that its a stupid name don’t play the specialization till they add another one for guardian.

We have spend more than 2 years playing a tanky/supportive role, we have an opportunity to play our favorite class in a offensive role but we won’t because the name is stupid.
That sounds weird.
I’ll be a “draconhunter” even if I hate that name because I need fresh air on my guardian.

“Dragonhunter” name sucks, Dragonhunter’s mecanics seems great, I’m happy @50% of this spec, change the name for something more generic (in a RP point of view) and I’ll be happy @100%.

I don’t want to deal with it and if there is any chance that dev consider our feedback, I have to argue for a name change.

I think many are focus on enhancing the current archetypes. Chronomancer worked because in plays on the manipulation of time which feels right at home with Mesmer. Think about it manipulating Time is the ultimate glamour / illusion so there is no disconnect from Mesmerise’s base identity. You need no lore explanation at all. Should this be the way with all specializations? I say No, as if this is a requirement it’s going to limit so much what can be achieved & done with specializations.

Now we get to Guardian’s, the Defender, Heavy Supporter, similar to the Holy Warrior archetype but not a warrior of a ‘Faith’ by lore. And the first specialization is Dragonhunter. A name many would say so far from the labels we would use for a Guardian going on past experiences and knowledge from fantasy, myths & other games. This is not even looking at what weapons, skills & traits Dragonhunters bring to the table.

For this name to fit in with the Guardian concept this name will need explanation through guild wars lore. And this is because of players past experiences and knowledge from fantasy, myths & other games. So far with the refer to the concept of Witch Hunters I can see how Guardians could become Dragonhunters. Their Virtue, their Valour, their Honour & Zeal could be driven to become the Witch Hunter’s of Tyria.

The Dragonhunters.

Lastly the other reason I’m really starting to love the Dragonhunter is because of the possibilities this opens up for the whole concept of specialization.

Not only can they Enhance a Profession’s Core Concept but Bend & Morph Profession’s in Way we Never Dreamed Of.

And if only for this reason I say Arenanet please keep Dragonhunter.

Bezagron.7352:

I think many are focus on enhancing the current archetypes. Chronomancer worked because in plays on the manipulation of time which feels right at home with Mesmer. Think about it manipulating Time is the ultimate glamour / illusion so there is no disconnect from Mesmerise’s base identity. You need no lore explanation at all. Should this be the way with all specializations? I say No, as if this is a requirement it’s going to limit so much what can be achieved & done with specializations.

Now we get to Guardian’s, the Defender, Heavy Supporter, similar to the Holy Warrior archetype but not a warrior of a ‘Faith’ by lore. And the first specialization is Dragonhunter. A name many would say so far from the labels we would use for a Guardian going on past experiences and knowledge from fantasy, myths & other games. This is not even looking at what weapons, skills & traits Dragonhunters bring to the table.

For this name to fit in with the Guardian concept this name will need explanation through guild wars lore. And this is because of players past experiences and knowledge from fantasy, myths & other games. So far with the refer to the concept of Witch Hunters I can see how Guardians could become Dragonhunters. Their Virtue, their Valour, their Honour & Zeal could be driven to become the Witch Hunter’s of Tyria.

The Dragonhunters.

Lastly the other reason I’m really starting to love the Dragonhunter is because of the possibilities this opens up for the whole concept of specialization.

Not only can they Enhance a Profession’s Core Concept but Bend & Morph Profession’s in Way we Never Dreamed Of.

And if only for this reason I say Arenanet please keep Dragonhunter.

Or…

It was the first name that came to mind. In like any fantasy game. Ever.

Ezrael.6859:

Not change the name of a traitline based on the whining of an incredibly small vocal minority.

Give everyone that created a whine thread the in-game title: Dragonhunter.

Oh yeah and please make it so so nobody could remove it as for several months. Could be fun to find how many Dragon Huggers popup from nowhere

Dragon Hugger as in someone who likes the name, or Dragon Hugger in the more literal sense?

As a Human Guardian I will gladly take up my bow in the fight as a Hunter to put an end to the dragons’ influences. I ain’t no red-eye leafy traitor.

purecontact.1680:

Wwefan.4982:

Its just a name for god sakes if you are so hung up that its a stupid name don’t play the specialization till they add another one for guardian.

We have spend more than 2 years playing a tanky/supportive role, we have an opportunity to play our favorite class in a offensive role but we won’t because the name is stupid.
That sounds weird.
I’ll be a “draconhunter” even if I hate that name because I need fresh air on my guardian.

“Dragonhunter” name sucks, Dragonhunter’s mecanics seems great, I’m happy @50% of this spec, change the name for something more generic (in a RP point of view) and I’ll be happy @100%.

I don’t want to deal with it and if there is any chance that dev consider our feedback, I have to argue for a name change.

And where is the evidence from the developers that says we are getting one every 2 years as I remember correctly from the pax announcement Colin said that these can be rolled out through live updates just like the masteries.

Bubi.7942:

Or…

It was the first name that came to mind. In like any fantasy game. Ever.

Maybe but going on that with no associated story / world or game lore every name can be just as cliché. Names & words all change over time and it’s the moment to moment content that defines the meaning behind them. And this moment to moment content can change.

I find with my understanding of Arenanets background lore for Dragonhunters that far from being cliché, I now has a regal knightly sound with a touch of over Zealous when I think of Dragonhunters and for me this fits just fine as a path Guardians could walk down.

But that’s me & I look forward to playing the Tyria Witch Hunter were my obsession has become my life’s goal. Other players are also liking the name, others are indifferent with most posting here disliking it. We are many players all of us different, what one profession, specialization fits one player doesn’t fit us all. Maybe some specialization the core profession player base will love, but other profession players will have no interest in. With other specialization the core players not liking but others do.

I have no problem with that, but I think this has been one of Arenanet’s mistakes in only releasing 1 specialization per profession. They really needed at least 2 specialization per profession at release:

• One to please the core profession fans which enhanced & have the same virtues that defined the profession.
• And 1 that was out there. That it could be a hit or miss with the core fans but shows a gameplay / lore story / name that other players like & were interested in playing.

This way you could enhance & please current profession fans but also shown the possibilities & options specializations would bring before everyone believes this is the Only Way a specialization should be created.

You needed the 2 Specs but we only have the 1 and I think for me this is what has been shown with the Dragonhunter. It really shows that there’s more to specialization them we first through but hasn’t been welcomed by all.

The thing about the Chronomancer and the Druid is that they actually aren’t that original. The Druid in the context of roleplaying existed back to the mid 70s Dungeons and Dragons. While the Chronomancer as a character class dates back to at least the early 90s with the 2nd edition supplement of the same name, there could have even been an earlier instance but I’m not sure. Even Final Fantasy 5 had the Time Mage which is from 1994.

I wouldn’t rank them to the same level as the most basic roleplaying archetypes of Fighter, Priest, Rogue and Wizard. But they are extremely well established in the world of roleplaying.

Funnily enough the concept of Specializations is very similar to Dungeons and Dragons 2nd edition’s concept of Kits. Where you take a base class and you incorporate unconventional elements from other classes making a new class concept. There’s literally hundreds of official and fanmade combinations from the last 3 decades.

For example they had Rangers that specialized in combating evil, thus adopting elements of the Paladin and thus calling themselves “Justifiers”. Then you had some strange combos of something like the “Spellarcher” which was a Mage that combined the archery skills of the Ranger, allowing them to cast their spells through the launching of an arrow. Or the “Bladesinger” which was a Fighter that could cast spells upon their bladed weapons. You can pretty much blend two or more classes together and you’ll find it’s fairly similar to something out there.

Nearly every single class combination or quirky concept has been exhausted. I can definitely see the difficulty in trying to find something entirely original without drawing comparisons (either consciously or not). It also doesn’t help that there isn’t all that much to Warrior based classes as say the magical or rogue ones. If I was to draw a DnD reference to the Dragonhunter it would be the Archer kit of the Undead Hunter (An archer that has dedicated themselves to eradicating the undead) or the Paladin kit of the Ghosthunter (A warrior that has dedicated themselves to eradicating spectral beings).

Those DnD kits were pretty shallow, I recall their general motivations being the only conceptually deep thing about them. DnD was pretty much plagued with kits like that where you would pick a threat and add the suffix “Hunter” or “Slayer”. Some other precedences are Giant Killer, Vermin Slayer, Death Slayer, Goblinsticker, Wizard Slayer, etc… Not the most inspiring way to name a new class.

With the explanation of the Dragonhunter being based on a historical “Witch Hunter” but with dragons instead of witches…. I’m starting to see it falling in line with that kind of naming convention.

It was said that there are fantasy names, generic names and high concept names. But you can also see them categorized as this; Roleplay Archetype names (Fighter, Mage, Priest, Thief, etc..), Class Hybrid names (Chronomancer, Illusionist, Assassin, etc…), and then specialized/kitted names with little depth (Undead Hunter, Wizard Slayer, etc…). I would place the Dragonhunter in the last one.

macon.4065:

-Snip-

Okay, I might derail this thread a bit, but here is the explanation.
First of all you might to step back a bit and look at the history of Tyria and the game itself.

Tyria and magic
Tyria is a world in which magic reigns. This a very potent factor, which has a lot of influence on how the world developes.
Magic is potent and can work in ways that allows for shortcuts on the normal technology tree which is governed by the laws of nature.

The Medievil setting
The traditional medievil setting, which goes into the high fantasy is actually in the past. To be precise around 250 years ago in Guild Wars 1
In this human centric story, we had swords and sorcery and not much of technology.
In fact more modern concepts like gunpowder came only into the game with the asian inspired Canthan lands and later on with “complex magic” of the Asura.
The Asura in this case represent a futuristic race, base on knowledge. However in this case magical knowledge. Subsequently they are bringing the sci fi factor into the game, complete with lazer weapons and robots (golems)

The mixed setting
Fast forward 250 years the big human empire had to take a big step back and other races were intrododuced. Now we got 5 different big races, who have all developed differently and with them combining their knowledge over the last few years.

- We got the Humans, who developed from the medievil setting into a more modern renaissance society. Think technology in terms of leonardo davinci up to airships.

- We have the Charr , who lost their trust in most magic, learned how to conquer steam and gunpowder. They are in the industrial age to early WWI with flamethrower, guns, rifles and tanks. They are militair oriented and like any warmongering nation it spawned a lot of jumps in technology.

- We have the Norn, who are more spiritual. They are more a nature society, who are based on norse Mythology. They didn`t need to invent a lot of things, because by nature they were strong and used magic.

- We have the Asura and like I allready said, they are basicly our SciFi future race. Aside from having more distinct housing in the world they didn`t change much from 250 years ago in terms of technological competition with the other races. They are at the top of magic and technology. Mostly their narcistic ways are their enemy.

If these different technological society coexist there will be some blending and thats what happened here.
However just because it excists, doesn`t mean it will automaticly exist in every race. It is a slow process of adaptation.

The Engineer is a good example of it. He is an example of the Charrs ingenuity with the renaissance design of the humans. He is a blend and the lowest common nominator in that case.
With that in mind it makes sense for other races to follow that, simply because what the Engineer is capable of, is on a level that every other race can archieve as well.
In reality everyone would of course have their own design or would excell in certain areas, but for a game (which this is) that is enough and it is a good reflection of what the class presents.

btw. check out Shadowrun for a modern take on this matter.
btw. 2 Please try to format your texts in the future. It is a bit hard to read in the current form. Try to use paragraphs to seperate it a bit.

I think DragonHunter makes a lot of sense. People seem to be looking at the name for this Specialization from the view of a player character. The argument, “We’re all dragon hunters, hunting Elder Dragons keeps coming up.” Of course the player characters are all hunting dragons, that’s what the game is about. The PC is always an exception to the rule.

In the lore of Tyria, however, the Dragon Hunters will be a splinter group of highly specialized Guardians that have seen the horrors the Dragons and their minions have wrought. This explains the NPC faction and the reason. Not all Mesmers are dedicated to fighting dragons, not all Chronomancers are either.

Dragon Hunters are. It fits perfectly in the lore.