Guild Wars 2

So in the recap trailer they put up today they said we killed Mordremoth. So what is the beast in Dragon’s Stand that we have to defeat (note we can’t kill it since it comes back to life and wipes everyone at the end of some timer) over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over?

Same sort of ‘beast’ as Zhaitan, or Eir, or Tybalt, or any of the named NPCs that are defeatable.

It’s the mouth of Mordy. His physical body that can be destroyed and remade more than once due to magic and fictionyness

The simple answer is that, in story, the Mouth of Modremoth is only fought once. Similar to how I’m sure by now the Pact wouldn’t be continually invading Orr despite the fact that you still see the invasion events going on. And how there are still infinite ghosts in Ascalon despite Rytlock’s ritual thingamajig prior to HoT.

You can view it as a moment frozen in time that only happens once in canon (See: Orr,) or as an offshoot of Mordremoth that retains some of its power, dying and being replaced as the dragon’s jungle-wide death throes gradually decline.

Or you can just say it’s there because it’s fun to fight, and it would be silly to kill it permanently just because LW2 rolls around. Whatever works for you.

We killed Mordremoth fully in the story instances, although repeated killing of the Mouth of Mordremoth (implied as his physical dragon form) is simply a game mechanic you need suspend your disbelief over.

When you play the instance, it specifically mentions the fight outside, so the two fights are simultaneous. Killing the “mouth” is one time since Mordy dies with Trahearne shortly after.

Yeah, as was said above, the DS meta is a time-locked event that just repeats itself. The events (leading to killing the Mouth of Mordremoth) are happening at the same time the final HoT PS mission (killing the Mind of Mordremoth) is happening.

I thought you couldn’t really KILL Mordremoth because he lives in the Dream or something like that?

It’s a moment somewhat frozen in time, just like every other part of the gameworld.

Yeah, it’s his physical manifestation (I guess other than being the jungle that takes up like 30% of the world), but it can’t be permanently killed because his power is his mind, which we DO kill, and so canonically, the Mordremouth is also dead.
Zones would be a lot less dynamic if the story events all stopped once you beat the story (also, they’re public, not personal instances)

Remember, players are still lamenting over not being able to partake in events that were only available for limited time.

If one were not able to defeat this dragon shortly after release, then it would be a missed opportunity for many. Thus, it (and other events) continues to be available for play.

as far as I remember, what i can tell from the dialogue in Heart and Minds is that as soon as our character fall to the pit to meet Trahearne, Commander said that “There is battle outside” what I assume is that Laranthir and the pact are commanding to attack Mouth of Mordremoth while our Commander is fighting Mordy’s Mind.

Kind of wish they had a tower of nightmares mechanic of when you defeat the physical body so many times that it would eventually change the world and make it a “living world” instead they just have all these “frozen in time” maps that never change and never make you feel like you do anything but again probably due to people wanting to play like it the game was released 1 day ago but want all the updates as well.

kamedin.4698:

Kind of wish they had a tower of nightmares mechanic of when you defeat the physical body so many times that it would eventually change the world and make it a “living world” instead they just have all these “frozen in time” maps that never change and never make you feel like you do anything but again probably due to people wanting to play like it the game was released 1 day ago but want all the updates as well.

I’m glad that’s not the case here. They’d basically have to throw out the entire map, and then either we’d have one less map, or they’d have to spend resources to create new events in the area. I’d rather see that effort go into new content.

It’s a balancing act, for sure. The permanently changing world is interesting, but I know I’m not the only one who feels a bit wistful about the Tower of Nightmares, the Marionette, or Old Lion’s Arch.

Onlysaneman.9612:

And how there are still infinite ghosts in Ascalon despite Rytlock’s ritual thingamajig prior to HoT.

His ritual failed afaik.

You could ask the same question about every game you start anew. OH you killed Bowser in Super Marion 64, and now you kill him again with a new safe file… What a question… Or to put it more in the context: Raid bosses. Xera gets killed daily, still you can kill her every week.

ProtoGunner.4953:

You could ask the same question about every game you start anew. OH you killed Bowser in Super Marion 64, and now you kill him again with a new safe file… What a question… Or to put it more in the context: Raid bosses. Xera gets killed daily, still you can kill her every week.

I don’t know about you but I’m not starting the game over, its not made to be like that. Besides that Death in Tyria is different. Just take your character, you never die, you become defeated, pretty much the reason you don’t need a special skill to “revive”. Since the Gods left, it is very hard to come back from the dead so they changed the mechanic. The Raid boss could just be Defeated and comes back, although something like the Elder Dragons could of been “killed” but may just be defeated and always come back.

Redenaz.8631:

kamedin.4698:

Kind of wish they had a tower of nightmares mechanic of when you defeat the physical body so many times that it would eventually change the world and make it a “living world” instead they just have all these “frozen in time” maps that never change and never make you feel like you do anything but again probably due to people wanting to play like it the game was released 1 day ago but want all the updates as well.

I’m glad that’s not the case here. They’d basically have to throw out the entire map, and then either we’d have one less map, or they’d have to spend resources to create new events in the area. I’d rather see that effort go into new content.

It’s a balancing act, for sure. The permanently changing world is interesting, but I know I’m not the only one who feels a bit wistful about the Tower of Nightmares, the Marionette, or Old Lion’s Arch.

If they redesign the events or make new events in the area that would be new content, or maybe just change to a really strong champion of Mordremoth like Teq is to fit the lore a little better maybe.

kamedin.4698:

Redenaz.8631:

kamedin.4698:

Kind of wish they had a tower of nightmares mechanic of when you defeat the physical body so many times that it would eventually change the world and make it a “living world” instead they just have all these “frozen in time” maps that never change and never make you feel like you do anything but again probably due to people wanting to play like it the game was released 1 day ago but want all the updates as well.

I’m glad that’s not the case here. They’d basically have to throw out the entire map, and then either we’d have one less map, or they’d have to spend resources to create new events in the area. I’d rather see that effort go into new content.

It’s a balancing act, for sure. The permanently changing world is interesting, but I know I’m not the only one who feels a bit wistful about the Tower of Nightmares, the Marionette, or Old Lion’s Arch.

If they redesign the events or make new events in the area that would be new content, or maybe just change to a really strong champion of Mordremoth like Teq is to fit the lore a little better maybe.

They might have to change it with Living Story content, but in the meantime – Remember, for a lot of people, the current Dragon’s Stand meta event going on right now is their first time killing Mordremoth.

Sartharina.3542:

kamedin.4698:

Redenaz.8631:

kamedin.4698:

Kind of wish they had a tower of nightmares mechanic of when you defeat the physical body so many times that it would eventually change the world and make it a “living world” instead they just have all these “frozen in time” maps that never change and never make you feel like you do anything but again probably due to people wanting to play like it the game was released 1 day ago but want all the updates as well.

I’m glad that’s not the case here. They’d basically have to throw out the entire map, and then either we’d have one less map, or they’d have to spend resources to create new events in the area. I’d rather see that effort go into new content.

It’s a balancing act, for sure. The permanently changing world is interesting, but I know I’m not the only one who feels a bit wistful about the Tower of Nightmares, the Marionette, or Old Lion’s Arch.

If they redesign the events or make new events in the area that would be new content, or maybe just change to a really strong champion of Mordremoth like Teq is to fit the lore a little better maybe.

They might have to change it with Living Story content, but in the meantime – Remember, for a lot of people, the current Dragon’s Stand meta event going on right now is their first time killing Mordremoth.

That may be but for some of the lore nuts, we have a story saying we killed Mordremoth and are moving on but we still have a map dedicated to killing Mordremoth so it can kind of get confusing. Personally I think they made the DS map because so many people commented on how the last Zhaitan fight was so bad because you just stand there and push a button and he dies after a while. While the DS map is interesting, it just feels like it doesn’t fit in the story, but its up to Anet whether they want to be different and actually do what they wanted to do in the beginning (which is why they got rid of the Legendary team) or try and please everyone (which won’t work). But this is all personal opinion and I speak for myself and no one other than myself.

This is just the way MMOs are, the events loop constantly because they have to. There is no lore reason needed. This is certainly no worse than killing Taidha Covington for the millionth time.

The end of the HOT story was kind of rushed and doesn’t include all the details it should. However, I think this is what it’s supposed to be:

1) The ENTIRE JUNGLE is Mordremoth. Everything – Mordrem, Blighting towers, the Mouth – are just outgrowths of it, like leaves on a tree.

2) Certain things, like the Axemaster and other champions, blighting towers, Zojja/Logan clones etc, are confirmed to grow back. This is both lore and a gameplay mechanic.

3) The attack on the Mouth (DS meta event) and the Mind (Story final instance) occur at the same time.

4) The Mouth dying at the very end, as it climbs the tree, is due to Mordremoth’s mind being destroyed by The Commander at that moment.

5) Thus, the DS Meta event is a typical MMO frozen-in-time-for-gameplay-reasons map, and the Mouth is not actually regrowing.

1 and 2 are confirmed in game. 3 , 4, and 5 are only suggested at, but are the explanation that makes the most sense.

Behind the scenes, and a wild guess on my part, Anet seems to have tried to make the “it grows back” explanation a replacement for suspension of disbelief, but it didn’t work out well (naturally, since it’s a terrible idea) so they cut a lot out and now it’s open to interpretation. The interpretation above is the one that doesn’t take a giant steaming dump on the story and characters so it’s the one I use in my head canon.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Don’t overthink it. Otherwise, anytime you died previously in the game wouldn’t make sense either. Remember: it’s still a game.

You don’t die in this game, you become defeated. While defeated is similar to death, you don’t actually die, because you can’t come back to life really easily. You basicly just pass out from being hit too much. When you are “revived” its like someone slapping you to wake up after being passed out drunk.

Rhyse.8179:

The end of the HOT story was kind of rushed and doesn’t include all the details it should. However, I think this is what it’s supposed to be:

1) The ENTIRE JUNGLE is Mordremoth. Everything – Mordrem, Blighting towers, the Mouth – are just outgrowths of it, like leaves on a tree.

2) Certain things, like the Axemaster and other champions, blighting towers, Zojja/Logan clones etc, are confirmed to grow back. This is both lore and a gameplay mechanic.

1) Mordremoth is not the entire jungle, but instead the situation is that Mordremoth can transfer his mind to his corruption, which is spread across the jungle, slowly replacing it. And from his corruption he can regrow his body (the Mouth of Mordremoth).

So in technicality, Mordremoth is nothing more than the Mouth of Mordremoth. In practice, however, he is basically the sum of his corruption.

Until we kill his connection to the Dream (aka armored-to-the-point-of-looking-fat upright drake).

2) I don’t think any of those examples are stated to grow back, actually. The Vinewrath in Silverwastes is said to simply retreat and regrow, and Mordremoth’s body (the Mouth) is stated to be able to be regrown, and we have the three mordrem commanders that are reborn from the Blighting Trees’ pods. However, destroying the Blighting Trees stops the commanders’ return – none of the trees come back except the newly planted saplings in Auric Basin.

Rhyse.8179:

1 and 2 are confirmed in game. 3 , 4, and 5 are only suggested at, but are the explanation that makes the most sense.

Actually, a dev over on reddit confirmed that the Mouth of Mordremoth fight does take place at the same time as Hearts and Minds.

It’s also implied that Bitter Harvest takes place during the lane assaults.

Rhyse.8179:

Behind the scenes, and a wild guess on my part, Anet seems to have tried to make the “it grows back” explanation a replacement for suspension of disbelief, but it didn’t work out well (naturally, since it’s a terrible idea) so they cut a lot out and now it’s open to interpretation. The interpretation above is the one that doesn’t take a giant steaming dump on the story and characters so it’s the one I use in my head canon.

Actually, the “it grows back” explanation was the excuse for why we delve into the Dream and kill his connection to the Dream which allowed him to transfer his mind (and whisper thoughts into the sylvari) so that we could actually kill him.

I saw the movie Titanic after my wife saw it. When she saw it, the boat sank. Magically, however, when I saw it, the boat sank again. Obviously, the boat didn’t magically get fixed and sink again.

All zones in the game are locked in time. Orr isn’t healed, even though we healed Orr. Every time we kill the great Jungle Wurm it doesn’t spawn the next day again.

That’s the nature of an MMO. Unlike single player games that can advance in story because you’re the only one playing the game, MMOs need to have areas frozen in time so other people can appreciate the story too.

Anet did actually try to rectify this was the Living World Season 1, but too many people complained that they were missing content if they weren’t here at the time.

Edit: I probably should also mention that the beast doesn’t wipe everyone if you win. It only wipes you if the server you’re on doesn’t win.

Vayne.8563:

All zones in the game are locked in time.

-snip-

Anet did actually try to rectify this was the Living World Season 1, but too many people complained that they were missing content if they weren’t here at the time.

Slight correction:

Zones are locked in time except where influenced by the living story.

ArenaNet did not try to rectify it as they did not remove any of the original content (unless it conflicted with the new stuff, and even then they tried avoiding it); instead they added and then removed new content. Excluding the Southsun Cove map, Tower of Nightmares was the first time they actually left something behind beyond a couple dialogues. But those who missed the content when it was out stilled missed it.

Season 2 is their attempt to rectify it, and it was quite a bit better. Season 3, I hope, will be even better at the job though.

kamedin.4698:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Don’t overthink it. Otherwise, anytime you died previously in the game wouldn’t make sense either. Remember: it’s still a game.

You don’t die in this game, you become defeated. While defeated is similar to death, you don’t actually die, because you can’t come back to life really easily. You basicly just pass out from being hit too much. When you are “revived” its like someone slapping you to wake up after being passed out drunk.

Good thing jumping into lava can’t kill me, or falling hundreds of feet, or getting blown up, stabbed in the back, impaled, etc, etc.

It’s like Mount and Blade, where the player character only goes unconscious despite taking arrows, swords, two handed axes, and javelins to the head.

Good times.