Dragon Stand meta....
To be fair, you spent the first 5 minutes complaining in map chat and mis-understanding how megaservers worked. If you want to do the event, you need to politely discuss the best way to get into a good run with people who have the knowledge. You can’t expect to get into a successful Dragon Stand run any more than you could expect to turn up to Teq exactly when he spawns and automatically be in a good map.
The megaserver has failed us.
1 map gets to do the event and hundreds of people stand alone trying to taxi into it.
BORING.
The last time I was unable to get to the ONE organized Map, I stayed on the map where I was and shortly after, enough people to kill the Mouth (and finish the events leading to it) joined it.
I find you have to get into the dragon stand right at the beginning. Once it gets rolling your not going to get in.
I have never seen less than 3 or 4 maps at any give time… What is this talk about “only one map” based on
“He shall make whole that which was torn asunder.
Restore that which was lost. And all shall be as one.”
Restore that which was lost. And all shall be as one.”
Can’t get into a map… Joined multiple parties though LFG… No luck… You do realize this is rage inducing right, ArenaNet? Do you care!?!?! Are you listening…
No evidence, no reference, pure speculation, no contribution, crystal-clear rant.
Why am I not surprised :-/ Honestly, I feel bad for the gaming community if this condition continues.
To be fair, you spent the first 5 minutes complaining in map chat and mis-understanding how megaservers worked. If you want to do the event, you need to politely discuss the best way to get into a good run with people who have the knowledge. You can’t expect to get into a successful Dragon Stand run any more than you could expect to turn up to Teq exactly when he spawns and automatically be in a good map.
So… You believe a player coming into the Dragon Stand map for the first time (as I was this morning) should know all this?!? I’m assuming you were the person who was the only other person on the map instance I landed in after getting booted from the first map for no reason (bug). On the first map instance I was in I was told 10 minutes in advance that the event was about to start. I DID ask the community for help and was hanging out. I ask “how does this work” and was told “just wait and you’ll see”. Me “do I need to be in party”. Map chat community “No, you’re good”.
The game developer has a responsibility to inform the player what is going on. The community does not hold this responsibility. Regardless, both failed in this case. As once booted I returned to an instance only to find myself completely alone, only save for you (one person who was not doing the meta event). Explain how this is good design?
I think by raising that question (“is this good design”) the community has actually given ArenaNet motivation to make a lot of positive change in the game.
You can say “you should research the event in forums or elsewhere on the internet before trying it” and you’re never going to get me to agree to that, because it’s just WRONG. That should not be a requirement.
I knew about what time the reset would happen and that’s all I wanted to know. I tried to get on-line early for this event and still was locked out less five minutes after reset. Do you think that’s acceptable? And what to do in an instance that has no population? Story chapter content I guess, but nor much else because you’re all alone and obviously your instance will not be able to complete the meta event even though it is active on the map you’re on.
A better design would at the very least provide more cues to the user who finds themselves locked out a instance what’s happened and would also kill the meta event on the less populated maps and offer alternative dynamic events. That way if you miss maps where the meta is occurring at least you can do something on the Dragon Stand map instead of run around in a sad lonely instance imaging what things would be like if you had a group big enough to do it.
Having not completed it, it’s hard to make recommendations but it seems the DS meta would be be served as a 10 man instance using the new squad interface instead of being a map meta that we have to wait for a reset on otherwise be completely locked out of. Being an instance would also assist those getting booted late in the game (at least I was kicked out early).
As implemented it seems like a really rotten design.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
Having not completed it, it’s hard to make recommendations but it seems the DS meta would be be served as a 10 man instance using the new squad interface instead of being a map meta that we have to wait for a reset on otherwise be completely locked out of.
Dragon Stand would have to be entirely different if it was a 10 man raid. I want some 10 man content, but this is an MMO so I also want to have large-scale encounters for people who are interested and able to prepare for them. A queue system would be nice (although comes with its own technical problems and community issues), but I don’t know many people who have been unable to consistently use the LFG to find a good instance.
You failed to get into a DS run because you were badly advised, you were unlucky on which instance you randomly ended up in and you didn’t LFG fast enough. It happens. Try again at next reset or try again tomorrow.
To be fair, you spent the first 5 minutes complaining in map chat and mis-understanding how megaservers worked. If you want to do the event, you need to politely discuss the best way to get into a good run with people who have the knowledge. You can’t expect to get into a successful Dragon Stand run any more than you could expect to turn up to Teq exactly when he spawns and automatically be in a good map.
So… You believe a player coming into the Dragon Stand map for the first time (as I was this morning) should know all this?!? I’m assuming you were the person who was the only other person on the map instance I landed in after getting booted from the first map for no reason (bug). On the first map instance I was in I was told 10 minutes in advance that the event was about to start. I DID ask the community for help and was hanging out. I ask “how does this work” and was told “just wait and you’ll see”. Me “do I need to be in party”. Map chat community “No, you’re good”.
The game developer has a responsibility to inform the player what is going on. The community does not hold this responsibility. Regardless, both failed in this case. As once booted I returned to an instance only to find myself completely alone, only save for you (one person who was not doing the meta event). Explain how this is good design?
I think by raising that question (“is this good design”) the community has actually given ArenaNet motivation to make a lot of positive change in the game.
You can say “you should research the event in forums or elsewhere on the internet before trying it” and you’re never going to get me to agree to that, because it’s just WRONG. That should not be a requirement.
I knew about what time the reset would happen and that’s all I wanted to know. I tried to get on-line early for this event and still was locked out less five minutes after reset. Do you think that’s acceptable? And what to do in an instance that has no population? Story chapter content I guess, but nor much else because you’re all alone and obviously your instance will not be able to complete the meta event even though it is active on the map you’re on.
A better design would at the very least provide more cues to the user who finds themselves locked out a instance what’s happened and would also kill the meta event on the less populated maps and offer alternative dynamic events. That way if you miss maps where the meta is occurring at least you can do something on the Dragon Stand map instead of run around in a sad lonely instance imaging what things would be like if you had a group big enough to do it.
Having not completed it, it’s hard to make recommendations but it seems the DS meta would be be served as a 10 man instance using the new squad interface instead of being a map meta that we have to wait for a reset on otherwise be completely locked out of. Being an instance would also assist those getting booted late in the game (at least I was kicked out early).
As implemented it seems like a really rotten design.
The game developer does NOT have a responsibility to hold your hand and explain every little thing. If you seriously expect to be able to know everything about what to do the moment you walk into a map then that’s a pretty boring game.
First time I walked into Dragon Stand I walked forward until I found some mobs while chatting with people in map chat. We got crushed by a legendary mob and then wiped by the dragon, then we got back up, compared notes, and proceeded to complete all the events up to the Dragon’s Mouth before we couldn’t figure out what to do there. Then we wiped, then we compared notes again, and then the next day we beat it.
Learn by playing, and if that’s too hard for you go to Queensdale and do the event chains there because if Dragon’s Stand is too hard to understand then I have nothing but pity for you.
If you still can’t figure something out, ask people in map chat. There’s plenty of people who have figured out how to make things work and are more than happy to tell you. For your complaint about the “wait and see” responses you got, it’s because even the slightest amount of attention paid to the queues (or, for example, reading the event descriptions) I find it shocking that you can’t figure out what to do.
If you are still having problems, reply to this and say “I don’t understand what to do in Dragon’s Stand. Can you explain what to do for the Meta Event?” and I would be happy to explain it to you.
Rev, Ele, Burnzerker
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
The game developer does NOT have a responsibility to hold your hand and explain every little thing. If you seriously expect to be able to know everything about what to do the moment you walk into a map then that’s a pretty boring game.
I agree they should not “hold your hand on everything”. As the name implies Dragon’s Stand’s purpose is the meta event so it’s a little different than the other maps. Asking that the objectives of the final map be more clear and to make more effort for when players are locked out or booted near the end (as many are experiencing) is not hand holding.
First time I walked into Dragon Stand I walked forward until I found some mobs while chatting with people in map chat. We got crushed by a legendary mob and then wiped by the dragon, then we got back up, compared notes, and proceeded to complete all the events up to the Dragon’s Mouth before we couldn’t figure out what to do there. Then we wiped, then we compared notes again, and then the next day we beat it.
Ah, the joys of being one of the first to tackle new content in a game. I had that experience with much of the GW2 core game content. Congrats on having that opportunity. But let’s talk about the experience as it is today Nov 13th 2015. Yeah, so no one’s comparing notes anymore. No one in map chat is even remotely nice or communicative unless you say something like “I’m just hear taking up a spot, would love to be of use if someone explained what we’re trying to do”. Fortunately I taxied into a map where I knew we knew there would be competent squad commanders (this only after getting some information from guildies).
In map chat I encounter rude and impatient players in map chat in Dragon Stand even 10 minutes before it started. No one would even hold a private dialog with me about it. That’s the state of things.
Learn by playing, and if that’s too hard for you go to Queensdale and do the event chains there because if Dragon’s Stand is too hard to understand then I have nothing but pity for you.
Actually, finished on first try and I only went down a few times. This after getting a couple of things I was asking for BUT GETTING ZERO HELP WITH on map chat (tried this on three instances which is why I’m making broad statements about the community in general, this was not isolated it’s the norm). 1.) General idea of how the event starts 2) A good server to come into the event with- beginning of the event on a server where I knew we had a few competent squad leaders and I knew we had filled up server. 3.) Understood a general idea of how the event works.
If you still can’t figure something out, ask people in map chat. There’s plenty of people who have figured out how to make things work and are more than happy to tell you.
Yes, rude little kittens they are. Probably children so it’s all forgiven.
… I find it shocking that you can’t figure out what to do.
It’s more concern about crashing, hearing rumors of how important it is to be on a good server at the beginning of the event, etc… and wanting to make sure I had those things taken care of. If you think I’m stating that I can’t follow the event task you are misunderstanding. I KNOW HOW TO DO THAT or I wouldn’t have made it this far. That’s obvious Captain, what I was looking for was information to make sure I wasn’t wasting my time. Again, you experienced it at a time when people were comparing notes and figuring out the puzzle. We are way past that now. Server populations are mixed with people who have done it a dozen times and first timers. Getting on a server with a good group is key. I was looking for information on how to do that and no one was interested in helping. In spite of the map chat community a few guildies came though with the information needed.
As a result of my efforts to get things lined up before just “going for it” blindly, I got with a strong group we finished all events in the meta with about 30 minutes to spare and got crazy loot.
Two things. 1.) I think you and I value our time differently. 2.) You are not considering the difference in experience someone has with this meta now vs when your group “figured it out early” (perhaps Google “empathy”). You keep doing it your way and I’ll keep doing it mine. The community in this game could be much more resourceful to one another or at least not rude.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
I feel sympathy towards your experience (though the comment insinuating that I finally get to have the experience of not knowing what to do is incorrect considering I’ve played since launch and have been an MMO player for the better part of a decade).
If you’ve got the map figured out, have you considered organizing it yourself? In your own words, everyone else is waiting on someone else to organize so (in the immortal words of Will I. Am) be the change you want to see.
If you managed to succeed after coming back to it, I fail to understand the point of your complaints at all because you obviously followed a near-exact line of actions to what I did and then won/got your loot.
Remember when Teq was first updated? Remember how long it took people to kill him, but now people just show up and effectively just zerg it down? This content has been out two weeks. If you know how to do it, try explaining it to everyone else to spread the knowledge rather than complaining about how everyone else was unhelpful (again, Will I. Am has the answers).
To your final point, I offered to explain it.
Also, to your original point, you could have made a thread either explaining the meta event or asking someone else to but instead you chose to complain about Anet (who is not responsible for how their players behave) so my empathy is not very high
Rev, Ele, Burnzerker
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
“Beware he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
I feel sympathy towards your experience (though the comment insinuating that I finally get to have the experience of not knowing what to do is incorrect considering I’ve played since launch and have been an MMO player for the better part of a decade).
If you’ve got the map figured out, have you considered organizing it yourself? In your own words, everyone else is waiting on someone else to organize so (in the immortal words of Will I. Am) be the change you want to see.
If you managed to succeed after coming back to it, I fail to understand the point of your complaints at all because you obviously followed a near-exact line of actions to what I did and then won/got your loot.
One major difference between our experiences is that I never tried and failed. You did. I tried only when I had the information I knew was out there to help greatly increase probability of success. Yes, your past experience in MMOs helped you I’m sure, but you made it sound as if you got to experience Dragon Stand with a group still trying to figure the map out. I would guess you finished it within the first 2 weeks of launch which would have given you a distinct experience. Now that information is known about game bugs and overall how to organize, it makes sense going into a map to try and get as much spoiler free information as possible about the mechanics and overall understand how you can best help yourself and help those who’ve done it time and time again to achieve their goal of a successful meta. Trying to get this information before the event starts and asking for people to PM you just a few answers is very reasonable. The communities I encountered were rude and offered zero help though map chat. Considering some of the rude comments I believe they understood but did not see any value in sharing.
Once I got the information I needed I returned, tried and succeeded. Prior to this I NEVER engaged in the events on the map. I was simply in map trying to get answer prior to meta reset. Once I had the information, I was able to be of support to the team and better equipet with the information given.
You got the experience of trying, failing and finally succeeding which is great when you’re one of the first groups to go for it. But almost a month has past and now the event is well known by many. People aren’t figuring it out on their own anymore. You either get in with a map that knows what’s going on or you get left behind on an empty map and get to wait till next time. this is important because it’s a pivotal part of the current experience for someone. It is very different than what you encountered and this experience highlights and underlines an important failure in the design. A failure that those who “ran with the launch herd/swarm” were immune to dealing with. It’s that ugly transition period between the meta zerg norm and a big chuck of the population being new to the meta events. Frankly, it’s just a misrible time to try and engage these events because of this mix of “have done it a zillion times l already” hard cores and beginners.
It’s very unimaginative to think the developer did all they could with this. I can think of a few things they could have done in anticipation and as you pointed out they even had patterns with events like Teq as reference for these phases. Dragon Stand is much more important the Teq because it’s the final meta in HoT and it contributes to the narrative for the HoT story. It should have improved upon the initial failures of Teq not repeated them.
The bottom line is that your experience with the event was very different than mine as you had a group eager to figure it out and work together to accomplish that. Again, once mechanics are out of the box (so to speak) the dynamics change. Anyone going in now is going to have several who know the event who have the burden of getting the other groups on the map to perform what’s needed to be success. This isn’t subjective. It’s the reality of things today.
Remember when Teq was first updated? Remember how long it took people to kill him, but now people just show up and effectively just zerg it down? This content has been out two weeks. If you know how to do it, try explaining it to everyone else to spread the knowledge rather than complaining about how everyone else was unhelpful
Some hold this knowledge, some do not. The biggest tip I could give anyone doing Dragon Stand is to get on a well populated server right at the event start, expect zero help from map chat (expect even the basic questions like “when will the meta reset”) to be ignored or met with scalding sarcasm. Have squad commanders with tags up and let people know if they choose to spec as dedicated or heavy focus healer it’s ok. In fact it’s good to have at least two in each group. Once the event starts it’s probably too late to taxi in. Do so 10-15 minutes before start to be safe. The ones doing this are organized and will win the event as it’s not really that hard with must minor prep.
Also, to your original point, you could have made a thread either explaining the meta event or asking someone else to but instead you chose to complain about Anet (who is not responsible for how their players behave) so my empathy is not very high
ANet could have done more. You disagree, I know. I believe your wrong. Here are my specific grievances with ANet regarding Dragon Stand
- Content is designed for strategic play yet it is “open world”. Developer should have known this would lead to servers being full and users getting locked out due to crashes, unexpected shut-downs etc. Most of these problems would go away if the content were instanced and scaled down a bit for three groups of 10. A queue system could be implemented similar to how sPvP matches are queued up for and instances could be spawned all the time. This would keep things going and allowing players to re-enter instance on dc, etc… would be solved. Most of the mechanics needed already exist in game, regardless an queued instance approach would have vastly improved the experience and problem mitigated memory crashes and all other complaints (I’m not the only one, that much is clear)
- While implementing a queued instance would have been idea, another alternative would be what I already suggested. For maps that have clearly missed the event have it fail early and have an alternative event chain occur for low populated maps with a boss of some sort at the end. The alternative event chain should give players incentive to be there just not as rewarding as the primary meta. Also have some visual queues/dialogs so the player understands clearly that they ended up on a map primary event chain has failed.
Without an alternative event chain here is what’s happening. A player “misses the boat” so to speak on getting in at beginning of reset and they are left in a low populated Dragon Stand map instance full of mobs they can’t solo and nothing else really going on save for a few story instance markers and hero challenges. This is not good design. I won’t agree that it is.
(edited by SamTheGuardian.2938)
Can’t get into a map… Joined multiple parties though LFG… No luck… You do realize this is rage inducing right, ArenaNet? Do you care!?!?! Are you listening…
It’s Anet… what do you expect… they love telling lies and misleading statements, most notably “its not/nothing is off the table”.
The megaserver has failed us.
1 map gets to do the event and hundreds of people stand alone trying to taxi into it.BORING.
How do you know only one map out of all the severs and instances get to do the meta event? Do you really feel there are only 150 people playing on DragonStand when the event starts?
I find it pretty easy to find a good DS server. Theres at least 3 TOPS that are running an organized meta event.