Guild Wars 2

Given that;

- There are 2 beta weekends left, meaning there will have been less overall player-test time for the Druid.

- Ranger has always been the most broken profession in the game, particularly with regard to its profession mechanic, the pet. (If you disagree I dare you to argue that on the Ranger forums…)

- If Anet are delaying the reveal and/or testing availability for the Druid because it’s not “ready”, this is worrying considering a 2015 release for HoT, and spells all too familiar territory for the Ranger profession.

- There are 3 years’ worth of decent profession feedback on the Ranger forums, most of which has not come to fruition. Now’s a big chance for Anet to show they’ve listened.

It’s currently being acknowledged within the Ranger community (perhaps not by all, but certainly by a noticeable number) that this could be the make-or-break for the Ranger. For me, I think even if Druid is underwhelming I’ll still play it just because it’s always been my favourite archetype in MMOs.

munki.6402:

Bryzy.2719:

For me, I think even if Druid is underwhelming I’ll still play it just because it’s always been my favourite archetype in MMOs.

If this is what you intend to do, then why start the thread?

Because I’ve not made the thread on behalf of myself alone.

Bryzy.2719:

It’s currently being acknowledged within the Ranger community (perhaps not by all, but certainly by a noticeable number) that this could be the make-or-break for the Ranger. For me, I think even if Druid is underwhelming I’ll still play it just because it’s always been my favourite archetype in MMOs.

This perfectly illustrates my issue surrounding how Rangers are discussed on the forums. The class isn’t ideal, but it is fun, at least for me. If it isn’t fun, then why are you playing it? Are you some kind of sick gaming masochist?

You see all of this hyperbolic rhetoric about how “broken” the profession is (there are bugs, and pet AI can be improved, but it is far from “broken”), with some even complaining that it is unplayable, but these people still play (and presumably have fun with) it.

So no, if you are going to continue to play Ranger if you don’t like Druid, it’s not make-or-break. It could be a disappointment to you based on your expectations, but you’ve already indicated that it is still worth playing despite an underwhelming Druid.

So stop QQing and just play the kitten game…

I still try to get what problem people remain finding when playing rangers and their pets. My pets never aggro wrongly, never are useless and I can lead them to every right target they must attack. So… now we have a problem with the Druid, when we even know what will offer yet?

I don’t want to think how many tears will be dropped in the forums if the Druid offers the option to manage TWO pets at same time -or something like this…

MattyP.6954:

Bryzy.2719:

It’s currently being acknowledged within the Ranger community (perhaps not by all, but certainly by a noticeable number) that this could be the make-or-break for the Ranger. For me, I think even if Druid is underwhelming I’ll still play it just because it’s always been my favourite archetype in MMOs.

This perfectly illustrates my issue surrounding how Rangers are discussed on the forums. The class isn’t ideal, but it is fun, at least for me. If it isn’t fun, then why are you playing it? Are you some kind of sick gaming masochist?

You see all of this hyperbolic rhetoric about how “broken” the profession is (there are bugs, and pet AI can be improved, but it is far from “broken”), with some even complaining that it is unplayable, but these people still play (and presumably have fun with) it.

So no, if you are going to continue to play Ranger if you don’t like Druid, it’s not make-or-break. It could be a disappointment to you based on your expectations, but you’ve already indicated that it is still worth playing despite an underwhelming Druid.

So stop QQing and just play the kitten game…

Please tell me what part of my thread is QQing? I’m not expressing personal opinion over the “make-or-break” case, I’m presenting the vibe from the Ranger community. At worst I’m putting forward a pessimistic outlook for what could be the case upon the release of the Druid, and the less-than-optimal conditions leading to its reveal. I have nowhere in this thread moaned about it though.

My take on it, is they are saving the most op and controvisabe until last. I’m pretty sure Druid will fall into that bracket. I mean look at dare devil on top of a thief’s already ott evade build. Good luck if you ever manage to hit one at all now.

Bryzy.2719:

MattyP.6954:

Bryzy.2719:

It’s currently being acknowledged within the Ranger community (perhaps not by all, but certainly by a noticeable number) that this could be the make-or-break for the Ranger. For me, I think even if Druid is underwhelming I’ll still play it just because it’s always been my favourite archetype in MMOs.

This perfectly illustrates my issue surrounding how Rangers are discussed on the forums. The class isn’t ideal, but it is fun, at least for me. If it isn’t fun, then why are you playing it? Are you some kind of sick gaming masochist?

You see all of this hyperbolic rhetoric about how “broken” the profession is (there are bugs, and pet AI can be improved, but it is far from “broken”), with some even complaining that it is unplayable, but these people still play (and presumably have fun with) it.

So no, if you are going to continue to play Ranger if you don’t like Druid, it’s not make-or-break. It could be a disappointment to you based on your expectations, but you’ve already indicated that it is still worth playing despite an underwhelming Druid.

So stop QQing and just play the kitten game…

Please tell me what part of my thread is QQing? I’m not expressing personal opinion over the “make-or-break” case, I’m presenting the vibe from the Ranger community. At worst I’m putting forward a pessimistic outlook for what could be the case upon the release of the Druid, and the less-than-optimal conditions leading to its reveal. I have nowhere in this thread moaned about it though.

I don’t think there is a ranger community. There are probably tens of thousands of people who play rangers. Many are quite happy with them. I main a ranger, and I’m quite happy. It’s my favorite profession in the game. I don’t seem to have the issues you do.

Maybe the ranger “community” is smaller than you think.

Vayne.8563:

Bryzy.2719:

MattyP.6954:

Bryzy.2719:

It’s currently being acknowledged within the Ranger community (perhaps not by all, but certainly by a noticeable number) that this could be the make-or-break for the Ranger. For me, I think even if Druid is underwhelming I’ll still play it just because it’s always been my favourite archetype in MMOs.

This perfectly illustrates my issue surrounding how Rangers are discussed on the forums. The class isn’t ideal, but it is fun, at least for me. If it isn’t fun, then why are you playing it? Are you some kind of sick gaming masochist?

You see all of this hyperbolic rhetoric about how “broken” the profession is (there are bugs, and pet AI can be improved, but it is far from “broken”), with some even complaining that it is unplayable, but these people still play (and presumably have fun with) it.

So no, if you are going to continue to play Ranger if you don’t like Druid, it’s not make-or-break. It could be a disappointment to you based on your expectations, but you’ve already indicated that it is still worth playing despite an underwhelming Druid.

So stop QQing and just play the kitten game…

Please tell me what part of my thread is QQing? I’m not expressing personal opinion over the “make-or-break” case, I’m presenting the vibe from the Ranger community. At worst I’m putting forward a pessimistic outlook for what could be the case upon the release of the Druid, and the less-than-optimal conditions leading to its reveal. I have nowhere in this thread moaned about it though.

I don’t think there is a ranger community. There are probably tens of thousands of people who play rangers. Many are quite happy with them. I main a ranger, and I’m quite happy. It’s my favorite profession in the game. I don’t seem to have the issues you do.

Maybe the ranger “community” is smaller than you think.

What issues do I have exactly? Other than the fact that I’m pessimistic about the release of the Druid, I’ve already said I’ll personally play it regardless because it’s fun. I’ve nowhere said “Oh boohoo I’m quitting Ranger if Druid sucks”. Ranger is currently sub-optimal but that doesn’t stop me playing it personally because I enjoy the archetype and find it fun. Which is what it should be about as the person above me said (though somehow seemed to think that saying that was a rebuttal to my post..)

Bryzy.2719:

Please tell me what part of my thread is QQing? I’m not expressing personal opinion over the “make-or-break” case, I’m presenting the vibe from the Ranger community. At worst I’m putting forward a pessimistic outlook for what could be the case upon the release of the Druid, and the less-than-optimal conditions leading to its reveal. I have nowhere in this thread moaned about it though.

Firstly, you’re entire OP was generic Ranger-whine. Secondly, the forums are a great place to get an outsized view of the QQ segment of any given profession playerbase.

What you conveniently leave out of your OP is the fact that, for every QQ post on the Ranger subs, there are a sizeable number of posts that, eloquently or not, refute the QQ. Of course there are bugs—there are bugs in every profession. That doesn’t mean that Ranger is “broken” or not fun.

My guess is that confirmation bias lead you to believe that the Ranger subs are all in agreement with your opinion, enabling you to appoint yourself their representative.

Cambeleg.7632:

I still try to get what problem people remain finding when playing rangers and their pets. My pets never aggro wrongly, never are useless and I can lead them to every right target they must attack. So… now we have a problem with the Druid, when we even know what will offer yet?

I don’t want to think how many tears will be dropped in the forums if the Druid offers the option to manage TWO pets at same time -or something like this…

I pretty much fall in this, but kitten i wish we didnt get so much hate in dungeons ;-;

Dante.1763:

Cambeleg.7632:

I still try to get what problem people remain finding when playing rangers and their pets. My pets never aggro wrongly, never are useless and I can lead them to every right target they must attack. So… now we have a problem with the Druid, when we even know what will offer yet?

I don’t want to think how many tears will be dropped in the forums if the Druid offers the option to manage TWO pets at same time -or something like this…

I pretty much fall in this, but kitten i wish we didnt get so much hate in dungeons ;-;

pls stop pewpew n du moar pokepoke

MattyP.6954:

Bryzy.2719:

Please tell me what part of my thread is QQing? I’m not expressing personal opinion over the “make-or-break” case, I’m presenting the vibe from the Ranger community. At worst I’m putting forward a pessimistic outlook for what could be the case upon the release of the Druid, and the less-than-optimal conditions leading to its reveal. I have nowhere in this thread moaned about it though.

Firstly, you’re entire OP was generic Ranger-whine. Secondly, the forums are a great place to get an outsized view of the QQ segment of any given profession playerbase.

What you conveniently leave out of your OP is the fact that, for every QQ post on the Ranger subs, there are a sizeable number of posts that, eloquently or not, refute the QQ. Of course there are bugs—there are bugs in every profession. That doesn’t mean that Ranger is “broken” or not fun.

My guess is that confirmation bias lead you to believe that the Ranger subs are all in agreement with your opinion, enabling you to appoint yourself their representative.

I don’t care what biases you suggest I have; of course I have biases – I main a Ranger. The fact you point that out is completely irrelevant because I can give you cold hard facts as to why the Ranger profession mechanic is broken; you clearly don’t play enough of the Ranger to notice the same things others do.

- Pets do not track intended targets properly nor efficiently, particularly when terrain is uneven

- In fact, pet AI is completely broken; the time lag between controlling your pet and the desired effect (whether it be F2 skill activation or physical re-placement) is entirely game-changing

These two points alone are all that’s needed. If you want to get into the whole comparison-of-inter-profession CC, AoE availability etc. there’s a host of info on the Ranger forums. But I doubt you’ll look on there. I’m not QQing; I’m pointing out what’s happening. For you to suggest this is Ranger “whine” is completely wrong. I’m pointing out facts.

We were told pets are the staple of our class, we were also told they don’t intend to fix them. Should tell you all you need to know about how Anet feel about us.

Mesmer has a more broken profession mechanic, yeah I said it.

Your right about everything else.

Druid will be staff ele in water attunement and a pet. Calling it now.

And part of the reason anet doesn’t do anything with ranger is because they get played anyway, despite the fact that they are a lackluster class. Sure, I like bows, so Ranger would be ideal right? No. I can make better, higher performing builds with warrior and thief. (and so I do).

Yeah, Rangers were in a good place when you could run a longbow build that hammered out 25k dmg rapid fires, but since the trait overhaul in preparation to HoT, that’s no longer possible so folks are going back to the older, less effective builds.

I simply recommend abandoning your Ranger. A thief can sate your shortbow cravings and warrior for your longbow ones, which ever you prefer. They actually make for better “Ranger” archetypes anyway plus you don’t have to deal with pesky quite-possibly-braindead pets.

MattyP.6954:

Bryzy.2719:

It’s currently being acknowledged within the Ranger community (perhaps not by all, but certainly by a noticeable number) that this could be the make-or-break for the Ranger. For me, I think even if Druid is underwhelming I’ll still play it just because it’s always been my favourite archetype in MMOs.

This perfectly illustrates my issue surrounding how Rangers are discussed on the forums. The class isn’t ideal, but it is fun, at least for me. If it isn’t fun, then why are you playing it? Are you some kind of sick gaming masochist?

You see all of this hyperbolic rhetoric about how “broken” the profession is (there are bugs, and pet AI can be improved, but it is far from “broken”), with some even complaining that it is unplayable, but these people still play (and presumably have fun with) it.

So no, if you are going to continue to play Ranger if you don’t like Druid, it’s not make-or-break. It could be a disappointment to you based on your expectations, but you’ve already indicated that it is still worth playing despite an underwhelming Druid.

So stop QQing and just play the kitten game…

There are two parts to the story and you’re only telling 1 part. I enjoy the ranger, you’re right it’s not perfect but it is fun. That’s the first part, here’s the second. I enjoy playing with other people, I enjoy WvW and organized combat, I would like the class I enjoy to be desired so I am not forced to either play by myself because no one desires a Ranger or play a class that is not a Ranger. I hear it is the same case in PvE & PvP.

Anet needs to make sure all classes are desirable, this is an MMO after all. There will always be a class or two that is OP, it’s the nature of the beast but it is entirely possible to make ALL classes useful.

myself.2143:

Yeah, Rangers were in a good place when you could run a longbow build that hammered out 25k dmg rapid fires, but since the trait overhaul in preparation to HoT, that’s no longer possible so folks are going back to the older, less effective builds.

I could get 12-15k on squishy if every single shot landed, didn’t get any dodges, misses, blocked, out of range etc in full zerk. What were you running for that?!

Bryzy.2719:

- Ranger has always been the most broken profession in the game, particularly with regard to its profession mechanic, the pet. (If you disagree I dare you to argue that on the Ranger forums…)

Every profession forum except the revenant (and there are signs of it developing there) has a vocal group that will loudly proclaim that their profession is the most neglected by ArenaNet and which will tear into anyone who offers a dissenting opinion on their territory. Doesn’t mean the dissenters are wrong.

Granted, the ranger has a lot of problems. Not a lot of good utility skill choices (although I think ranger traps are underrated), losing character control with sword autoattack, and longbow being the only really viable weapon in general comes to mind. However, the mere existence of a howler brigade is not a good argument for the balance state of any profession. (The size of the howler brigade, relative to the size of the community as a whole, perhaps…)

myself.2143:

Yeah, Rangers were in a good place when you could run a longbow build that hammered out 25k dmg rapid fires, but since the trait overhaul in preparation to HoT, that’s no longer possible so folks are going back to the older, less effective builds.

I don’t really consider having a single overpowered weapon to be “in a good place”. First, because it’s nerfbait, and second, because it makes that weapon the only choice while everything else remains weak.

From my experience in sPvP, well-played longbow rangers are still pretty powerful – they’ve got a high-damage spike that’s difficult to mitigate against and on a short cooldown, coupled with a lot of control and survivability on the same weapon.

I simply recommend abandoning your Ranger. A thief can sate your shortbow cravings and warrior for your longbow ones, which ever you prefer. They actually make for better “Ranger” archetypes anyway plus you don’t have to deal with pesky quite-possibly-braindead pets.

I think it’s generally ArenaNet’s policy that if you don’t want a pet, there’s another profession that will allow you to make an equivalent character to whatever ranger build you have in mind. Dragonhunter contributes to this – it’s really more for trapper ranger players who want to ditch the pet than it is for guardian players.

Sicarius.4639:

myself.2143:

Yeah, Rangers were in a good place when you could run a longbow build that hammered out 25k dmg rapid fires, but since the trait overhaul in preparation to HoT, that’s no longer possible so folks are going back to the older, less effective builds.

I could get 12-15k on squishy if every single shot landed, didn’t get any dodges, misses, blocked, out of range etc in full zerk. What were you running for that?!

He never could, it was a gross exaggeration (unless he was aiming at an up-level or something like that).

Bryzy.2719:

- Pets do not track intended targets properly nor efficiently, particularly when terrain is uneven

- In fact, pet AI is completely broken; the time lag between controlling your pet and the desired effect (whether it be F2 skill activation or physical re-placement) is entirely game-changing

Neither of those are really pet issues, they’re issues with the general monster AI which pets share with everything else.

Bryzy.2719:

What issues do I have exactly?

You obviously have some issues, or you wouldn’t have called Ranger the most broken profession in the game.

jheryn.8390:

Bryzy.2719:

What issues do I have exactly?

You obviously have some issues, or you wouldn’t have called Ranger the most broken profession in the game.

Is this debatable?

Sicarius.4639:

jheryn.8390:

Bryzy.2719:

What issues do I have exactly?

You obviously have some issues, or you wouldn’t have called Ranger the most broken profession in the game.

Is this debatable?

I suppose it is. I have several friends who main a ranger, who have no problem with the class at all. #perspective

jheryn.8390:

Sicarius.4639:

jheryn.8390:

Bryzy.2719:

What issues do I have exactly?

You obviously have some issues, or you wouldn’t have called Ranger the most broken profession in the game.

Is this debatable?

I suppose it is. I have several friends who main a ranger, who have no problem with the class at all. #perspective

You want to know why ranger is believed to be broken?
You realize RANGER was the first profession to be voted for the CDI with devs right? why would ppl vote it first? because it was far and away, the one class that needed the most help. ALL other classes have a somewhat working class mechanic, rangers is BROKEN.

I don’t care what your friends think. The fact remains, this class has SERIOUS problems., whether you want to admit it or not…

Its medicore to average in literally every role possible and a lot of that has to do with the class mechanic being beyond awful. I’ve played my ranger through everything (full ascended for all fracs, WvW zerg and roaming, champion hunter title in sPvP). I switched over to ele and warrior to see how other classes fared because I felt like i’ve accomplished everything I wanted on my ranger. It was an eye opening moment when I switched mains…. it was incredible how much more useful I felt in a party or how much more dps i could have been doing if I didn’t kitten myself playing ranger.

Is ranger currently playable? it is, absolutely. but if you like mediocrity, go for it. Other classes do most things miles better than ranger. Other classes don’t have a malfunctioning class mechanic as bad as ranger does. Thats why ranger is believed to be in a bad shape.

Yea i am waiting for the reveal be for i decide if i want to continue my gw2 experience- raids drop my interest allot- my only fear with druid is that it will be ground targeting like the necro staff . really needs a cast on person option

SkiTz.4590:

jheryn.8390:

Sicarius.4639:

jheryn.8390:

Bryzy.2719:

What issues do I have exactly?

You obviously have some issues, or you wouldn’t have called Ranger the most broken profession in the game.

Is this debatable?

I suppose it is. I have several friends who main a ranger, who have no problem with the class at all. #perspective

You want to know why ranger is believed to be broken?
You realize RANGER was the first profession to be voted for the CDI with devs right? why would ppl vote it first? because it was far and away, the one class that needed the most help. ALL other classes have a somewhat working class mechanic, rangers is BROKEN.

I don’t believe I asked for a reason why people think it is broken. I know why. I certainly don’t need to be educated by you.

SkiTz.4590:

I don’t care what your friends think. The fact remains, this class has SERIOUS problems., whether you want to admit it or not…

That is fine, because neither they nor I care if you care what we think. Again, I didn’t say I did or did not think it has a problem. I said I have friends that do not have a problem with it. Maybe you don’t understand the word “perspective.”

SkiTz.4590:

Its medicore to average in literally every role possible and a lot of that has to do with the class mechanic being beyond awful. I’ve played my ranger through everything (full ascended for all fracs, WvW zerg and roaming, champion hunter title in sPvP). I switched over to ele and warrior to see how other classes fared because I felt like i’ve accomplished everything I wanted on my ranger. It was an eye opening moment when I switched mains…. it was incredible how much more useful I felt in a party or how much more dps i could have been doing if I didn’t kitten myself playing ranger.

Well, good for you. You now feel special.

SkiTz.4590:

Is ranger currently playable? it is, absolutely. but if you like mediocrity, go for it. Other classes do most things miles better than ranger. Other classes don’t have a malfunctioning class mechanic as bad as ranger does. Thats why ranger is believed to be in a bad shape.

You ranted all of this because I said that something is debatable because of perspective. Melodramatic much?

I got my 25k rapid fires in group settings, not solo (should have mentioned that). So I ended up having full might stacks with fury and nearly if not full vul stacks on target(s) (Was amazing with piercing shots and clipped several targets!) and nearly every hit of rapid fire was a crit. It was from [soft] maximizing. (Again, I should have mentioned that).

Rangers have pet AI issues, but the biggest reason why Rangers (and Engi’s) are considered broke is they bring nothing to a group, simply put anything they can do another class can do better. They need meaningful group utility, they need the ability to choose to go petless so 30% of their damage isn’t in a “this might work” situation, or the pet needs to be fixed once and for all or even better, all of the above.

You know what would make the druid something to behold? If pets were turned into spirit versions that only appeared when you attack a with a pet attack or action. Basically removing the auto attack from pets and baking it into the ranger itself. That would solve one issue, but as Random said, there would still be the fact that Rangers offer nothing to a group.

Heck, anet could significantly increase the value of both engineers and rangers if they just turned several skills into combo fields.

I enjoyed my ranger as a main for a long time, but have come to terms with the fact that they are the red headed step child of gw2 (well, them and necros from what I understand, though I’ve had relatively little experience playing a necro).

I recently switched mains to my 80 Mesmer and it is a world of difference (at least in pvp/wvw). Until the switch, I felt reasonably satisfied with where ranger was at, though I had some complaints about pet pathing and such. After the switch I feel like my ranger’s performance is lackluster. Yes it can do damage, but other classes can do that same damage (or more) and bring additional utility to your team or else can set up for some sort of very self sustainable build (Such as bunker guard, PU mesmer [not actually tanky, but very elusive], or a d/d ele).

I’m really hopeful that Anet will be on the ball and make druid awesome. I really would like to go back to maining my ranger Shoot N Loot.

People keep saying rangers are useless in everything…

In my experience, a ranger is the profession I least want to see on the opposing team in sPvP:

Rapid Fire is still an extremely dangerous skill. It’s high damage on a short cooldown, and at extremely long range – which makes it easy for rangers to catch people by surprise by attacking from outside the area a player is observing, attacking from an unexpected vantage point, attacking from a position that the target simply can’t get to in order to fight back effectively, or simply use that range to prevent their opponent from being able to close or escape effectively. Being a multi-hit channel, a lot of damage mitigation effects won’t help (it’ll continue channelling right through a stealth, a single-attack block will only block 1/8 of the damage) – you can only avoid the damage by LOSing the ranger, using a longer-duration invulnerability or block (all of which have longer cooldowns than Rapid Fire) or a dedicated anti-projectile skill (which, since few other common PvP builds rely on long-range projectiles, usually means you have a skill that is only useful against rangers.)

On top of this, rangers have a lot of control that can be used offensively or defensively. Offensively, Barrage can prevent a wounded enemy (pretty much anyone who’s been caught off-guard by a Rapid Fire channel is going to be feeling like they want to disengage and heal) from escaping, while Point-Blank Shot and the wolf fear howl can knock somebody off a point. Defensively, all of the above can be used to prevent an enemy from closing. This is without considering other control effects like Entangle (if you’re fighting a ranger in sPvP, they WILL be packing Entangle) Muddy Terrain, and Spike Trap.

They also have the potential for a lot of survivability considering how hard they are to pin down. They’ve got some of the most efficient heals in the game (particularly if they have the shout trait) and access, albeit limited, to stealth. Depending on utility skills and secondary weapon choice, they can have condition control (although they’re probably not the best at that), and have multiple choices for skills that effectively make them invulnerable to direct damage (Signet of Stone, Protect Me). If you down them, they can potentially stop a stomp three times between them and their pet (although this requires the wolf using its knockdown at the right time, which the ranger doesn’t have control over) and then use the pet to revive themselves.

The interference value of the pet itself should not be underestimated. It’s easy to accidentally target the pet in combat, and even the glassier pets are tough enough that, combined with the ease of swapping them out, attacks that land on the pet are effectively wasted. Mesmers and minion master necros can present similar issues, but destroying an illusion or a minion is easier to do and usually hurts the owner more. Because the pet is hard to kill yet reasonably expendable, it’s also good for harassing a weak opponent that’s in a position the ranger themselves don’t want to go to.

Rangers are fairly weak at fighting on a point… but they’re quite effective at remaining off the point and pressuring a single opponent out of being able to take the point, between knocking them off and simply doing so much damage that they might kill the capturing opponent or force them to withdraw without taking the point. Traps can be an effective aid there – traps themselves won’t stop a capture, but traps combined with a ranger lurking 1300 units away in a location most players won’t think to look can quickly follow up to kill a weakened opponent. Rangers also make good trebuchet operators for this reason – the traps can put an attacker at a serious disadvantage.

Now, not everything I’ve described above can all be in the same build, obviously, and I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say that the ranger should be nerfed (at least not without compensatory buffs to make less longbow-oriented tactics more viable) but in my experience rangers most definitely can pull their weight in sPvP. That ability to dish out a lot of damage at long range can also give than an advantage in WvW. Granted, they’re not especially suitable in the PvE meta, but that might change if raids put more of a focus on spreading out and dealing ranged damage than stacking and burning bosses down in melee.

“you can ONLY avoid the damage by LOSing the ranger, using a longer-duration invulnerability or block (all of which have longer cooldowns than Rapid Fire) or a dedicated anti-projectile skill, and projectile-destroy skills, and projectile-destroying traits, and reflect-projectile-duration-increasing traits and dodging.”

Lol’d hard. Your entire post is flawed showing complete lack of Ranger experience, but that particular paragraph made me laugh the most. Although the “I’m not sure I’d go so far as to say that the ranger should be nerfed…” got me too.

I imagine you’re probably trolling but if not I’ll put it simply. In every game mode, there is another profession(s) that can do what the Ranger does, only better and more of it.

I honestly thought the whole post was tongue in cheek.

And what about the Engineer? They did a poll on reddit not too long ago, and Engineer was the least played profession, and Ranger was mid/top.

Linfang.1087:

And what about the Engineer? They did a poll on reddit not too long ago, and Engineer was the least played profession, and Ranger was mid/top.

Let’s not muddy the waters here…

:’)

Bryzy.2719:

Given that;

- There are 2 beta weekends left, meaning there will have been less overall player-test time for the Druid.

- Ranger has always been the most broken profession in the game, particularly with regard to its profession mechanic, the pet. (If you disagree I dare you to argue that on the Ranger forums…)

- If Anet are delaying the reveal and/or testing availability for the Druid because it’s not “ready”, this is worrying considering a 2015 release for HoT, and spells all too familiar territory for the Ranger profession.

- There are 3 years’ worth of decent profession feedback on the Ranger forums, most of which has not come to fruition. Now’s a big chance for Anet to show they’ve listened.

It’s currently being acknowledged within the Ranger community (perhaps not by all, but certainly by a noticeable number) that this could be the make-or-break for the Ranger. For me, I think even if Druid is underwhelming I’ll still play it just because it’s always been my favourite archetype in MMOs.

ranger’s always been the most broken?

uh…no

at release i think that was the engineer
following the buff to engi it was necro

and since then, its been more or less necro ever since.

rangers fine right now. it has to rely on AI less than forge and necro.

arenta.2953:

Bryzy.2719:

Given that;

- There are 2 beta weekends left, meaning there will have been less overall player-test time for the Druid.

- Ranger has always been the most broken profession in the game, particularly with regard to its profession mechanic, the pet. (If you disagree I dare you to argue that on the Ranger forums…)

- If Anet are delaying the reveal and/or testing availability for the Druid because it’s not “ready”, this is worrying considering a 2015 release for HoT, and spells all too familiar territory for the Ranger profession.

- There are 3 years’ worth of decent profession feedback on the Ranger forums, most of which has not come to fruition. Now’s a big chance for Anet to show they’ve listened.

It’s currently being acknowledged within the Ranger community (perhaps not by all, but certainly by a noticeable number) that this could be the make-or-break for the Ranger. For me, I think even if Druid is underwhelming I’ll still play it just because it’s always been my favourite archetype in MMOs.

ranger’s always been the most broken?

uh…no

at release i think that was the engineer
following the buff to engi it was necro

and since then, its been more or less necro ever since.

rangers fine right now. it has to rely on AI less than forge and necro.

LEL, wroooooooonnnng.

>Rangers fine right now

Troll confirmed.

>It has to rely on AI less than forge and necro

Forge isn’t even released yet, and AI is the entire Ranger profession mechanic. And it’s broken. AI is optional for Necros. Troll double-confirmed.

arenta.2953:

Bryzy.2719:

Given that;

- There are 2 beta weekends left, meaning there will have been less overall player-test time for the Druid.

- Ranger has always been the most broken profession in the game, particularly with regard to its profession mechanic, the pet. (If you disagree I dare you to argue that on the Ranger forums…)

- If Anet are delaying the reveal and/or testing availability for the Druid because it’s not “ready”, this is worrying considering a 2015 release for HoT, and spells all too familiar territory for the Ranger profession.

- There are 3 years’ worth of decent profession feedback on the Ranger forums, most of which has not come to fruition. Now’s a big chance for Anet to show they’ve listened.

It’s currently being acknowledged within the Ranger community (perhaps not by all, but certainly by a noticeable number) that this could be the make-or-break for the Ranger. For me, I think even if Druid is underwhelming I’ll still play it just because it’s always been my favourite archetype in MMOs.

ranger’s always been the most broken?

uh…no

at release i think that was the engineer
following the buff to engi it was necro

and since then, its been more or less necro ever since.

rangers fine right now. it has to rely on AI less than forge and necro.

you serious clark?

The pet AI is on par with the risen running around in orr dude.
NO ones class mechanic has ANY AI that is broken as rangers….. its been stated over a thousand times in the ranger CDI and even the devs believe its broken but the fix isn’t easy….

I am totally ready for Dudu announcement,
already bought me a proper leaf armour from Twilight Arbor.

arenta.2953:

rangers fine right now. it has to rely on AI less than forge and necro.

Rely less on AI than Engineer or Necro? LULWUT?!

Pet AI is hard baked into the Ranger and our damage is balanced to assume a DPS pet alive 100% of the time and landing 100% of its hits in a fight. There is no possible way to play the class well without micromanaging the pet that is there in every fight.

Some one said once that the ranger is the “Jack-of-trades” class. And they are right, considering how rangers function.

“Every thing a ranger can do, another class can do it better and more of it.” This is true. But, a ranger can do almost every thing every other class can do, just not as well.

So maybe Ranger truly is working and intended: a crippled class.

myself.2143:

Druid will be staff ele in water attunement and a pet. Calling it now.

And part of the reason anet doesn’t do anything with ranger is because they get played anyway, despite the fact that they are a lackluster class. Sure, I like bows, so Ranger would be ideal right? No. I can make better, higher performing builds with warrior and thief. (and so I do).

Yeah, Rangers were in a good place when you could run a longbow build that hammered out 25k dmg rapid fires, but since the trait overhaul in preparation to HoT, that’s no longer possible so folks are going back to the older, less effective builds.

I simply recommend abandoning your Ranger. A thief can sate your shortbow cravings and warrior for your longbow ones, which ever you prefer. They actually make for better “Ranger” archetypes anyway plus you don’t have to deal with pesky quite-possibly-braindead pets.

Warrior longbow is a buffbot weapon. Thief shortbow is a toolbox weapon. Both weapons have sub-par DPS compared to each profession’s other weapon choices. The same is true of the ranger’s longbow, but by a much smaller margin.

Tldr: The ranger loses less DPS by equipping a bow than a thief or warrior.

“druids better be something special”?

how about play a legitimate class? ;D (joke)

they had to leave 2 classes to the very end, why not the class that hasnt had love in forever that most people shun in most game modes and the class that is one of the least played because it isnt a normal class? be happy you can still be excited about your favorite class, im still on the fence about dragon hunter and tempest.

arenta.2953:

rangers fine right now. it has to rely on AI less than forge and necro.

This is what Necros actually believe.

It always amazes me how Necros have managed to convince everybody else they are the most maligned class and always mange to insert themselves into any conversation about the strength/weakness of other classes when they have been Meta in WvW forever, have a great DPS build for dungeons, one of the better classes to carry a dungeon pug group and has been in high tier PvP much more often then Ranger has.

I did not read every post in this thread, so forgive me if this has been brought up.

When looking through the forum on Rangers, there was one data-mined image for the Druid spec that only depicted three animals: Bear, Wolf, and Raven(or some predatory bird). Then I recall watching one of Wooden Potato’s videos that had footage of the first press beta for the GW2. In that video he mentioned that at one point ANet had the idea of the ranger controlling 3 pets at the same time.

Data-mined image
http://i.imgur.com/mxeqJcc.png

WP vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZNDw1BBBTM

MattyP.6954:

Bryzy.2719:

Please tell me what part of my thread is QQing? I’m not expressing personal opinion over the “make-or-break” case, I’m presenting the vibe from the Ranger community. At worst I’m putting forward a pessimistic outlook for what could be the case upon the release of the Druid, and the less-than-optimal conditions leading to its reveal. I have nowhere in this thread moaned about it though.

Firstly, you’re entire OP was generic Ranger-whine. Secondly, the forums are a great place to get an outsized view of the QQ segment of any given profession playerbase.

What you conveniently leave out of your OP is the fact that, for every QQ post on the Ranger subs, there are a sizeable number of posts that, eloquently or not, refute the QQ. Of course there are bugs—there are bugs in every profession. That doesn’t mean that Ranger is “broken” or not fun.

My guess is that confirmation bias lead you to believe that the Ranger subs are all in agreement with your opinion, enabling you to appoint yourself their representative.

This just goes to show you play so little of the ranger profession. Just to the “Rangers Bugs” thread and compare the amount of bugs this class have comapred to others. Now go have a look at tournaments and count the number of players playing the ranger class(I will make it easy for you its 0). Now go take a look at the number of rangers in party for dungeons. If thats not enough proof for you that the ranger class is one of the most hated classes – even from a perspective of arenanet (considering the amount of feedback on the ranger forum but no response from AN).

The fact that I main a ranger because I have fun playing it doesnt justify the state of rangers in this game.

I am, in fact, being serious. Although I can’t say I wasn’t expecting this sort of response. Like I said, every profession has people who loudly insist that their profession is the most neglected in the game and who will rip into anyone who tries to point out that the grass on the other side may not be as green as they think.

Go to the Mesmer forum, and there’ll be people complaining about how the profession is reliant on illusions that are easily killed and hit by a kneejerk nerf due to players of other professions being too lazy to learn the counters when they can complain about overpowered mesmers and get nerfs, how the Mesmer is riddled with bugs, and how those kneejerk nerfs never get considered for reverting when the conditions that made the original setup powerful no longer applied.

The elementalist forum is complaining because they only have one build they see as viable and can see that build being nerfed in the near future, leaving them with nothing.

The necromancer forum is like the ranger forum in claiming they’re the redheaded stepchild that’s never allowed to be viable… even in the period immediately after the specialisations update when the unholy martyr minion master was basically unkillable.

The thief forum is complaining that they can’t always win stealth-offs with mesmers, stealth is less valuable anyway due to the increased presence of Reveal, and the Acrobatics nerf means they can’t make up for it by dodging like they used to.

The engineer forum is complaining because turrets were basically boonsmited in PvP, engineer condition builds play a poor second fiddle to elementalist and guardian burn builds, and other reasons I’m forgetting.

Rangers were claiming they were the weakest profession in PvP even before the specialisations update when they were doing those massive RF spikes discussed earlier in this thread.

The guardian forum was relatively mellow last I checked (except where dragonhunter is concerned), but still has a long list of issues that have existed since release they’re upset at not having been looked at.

The warrior forum… I don’t check often enough to be able to say what they’re complaining about. I’m sure there’s something. I did hear that apparently hambow got nerfed out of being viable.

The revenant forum is already complaining about not having enough condition removal.

There probably is a correlation between the severity of an issue and how bad the problem is, but the profession forums do tend to kitteno chambers for the people who are unhappy with their profession and think it’s underpowered while not paying attention to – or outright attacking – anyone who points out reasons why their profession is not seen as UP, and may even be outright feared, by people who play other professions (including people who play a range of professions instead of sticking to just one).

This is actually probably not all that surprising – there’s psychological research that indicates that negative experiences get felt more than positive ones. Translated into PvP gaming with a class system, this means that the times some other class kicks your kitten get remembered more vividly than the times you did it to them. so when two classes are well balanced against the other, it actually leads to players that exclusively play either to feel that they’re underpowered against the other.

Regarding “not being the best at anything”: Rangers are, in fact, the best at being able to dish out a lot of damage from outside the reach of anyone else. Engineers are the only ones that can match them for range at all, and the mortar kit just doesn’t have the spike potential ranger longbow has and being bombarded by a mortar just doesn’t have the same lethality in general (it’s more of a support weapon). Other professions, including engineer, have to get fairly close to have their maximum impact. Longbow is most effective at long range, with all skills having maximal effectiveness except Point Blank Shot (whose primary function is to maintain that range). There are other weapons that maintain full effectiveness at long range, but most don’t have the lethality, and only the mortar kit has 1500 range.

This has the corollary of rangers being among the most able to catch someone by surprise (they can’t stealth until they’ve already engaged and don’t have teleports, but on the more open maps, it’s hard to maintain awareness of everything that’s happening within a longbow ranger’s potential threat range of you). They also have the best ability to make use of various locations on some maps that people generally don’t think of as a potential vector to be attacked from and which are hard to get to, but from which rangers can overwatch a point and launch fairly powerful attacks from a position that is hard to answer against. They’re also very good at maintaining that range.

Regarding countering Rapid Fire: It’s a spike. It’s not the biggest spike in the game, but it’s on a short recharge, and it’s enough to drop someone who’s wounded and doesn’t have anything to mitigate the damage, or put someone who was on full health to a position where they know they won’t be able to survive the followup without pulling out all the stops… and as previously discussed, it can be done at 1500 range. Furthermore, most skills for stopping a spike are based on it being a relatively small number of hits and/or all happening in a fairly short period of time. Blinds will only stop one hit out of the eight. A lot of blocks will only stop either one or three. Stealth does nothing if the RF is already running (I had one case where I initiated RF against a mesmer who stealthed – I thought they’d gotten away until they unstealthed in downed state…). Dodging and other short-term invulnerable frames will stop some hits but not all. Sure, all these effects mitigate it – but a lot of the other spikes that people complain about can be prevented entirely by a well-timed dodge or other active defence, and most of those spikes have longer cooldowns, require more risks and setup, and often both. You CAN knock out a RF spike entirely, or even turn it back on the user, with a projectile blocking or reflecting field: however, these are rarely seen in sPvP and with good reason. Most professions don’t rely on long-range projectiles to the same extent, and the general response from a player to such a field is to use non-projectile attacks or simply to get on the same side of the field as the defender and kill them from there.

Regarding the observation that I’m not sure if rangers should be nerfed – I initially explained it further but edited that explanation out, but let me unpack that a little:

First, I mean that at face value. I’m genuinely not sure, partially because I am aware of perception bias as mentioned above and I don’t think I’ve played ranger enough in PvP to overcome that. (My experience so far has not lead me to think it’s underpowered, though, and by the same token, I’m not a highly experienced PvP ranger player to I’m not using it as well as more experienced ranger players should be)

I think ranger longbow might still be a little too strong. I genuinely do find a well-played ranger more dangerous than other professions, to the point of taking the “if you can’t beat’em, join’em” route, but it’s at a level where it feels like it’s fair enough that they can secure kills more easily than a lot of other professions considering that they’re not great at fighting on point (where they sacrifice their advantages) or other situations where they can’t bombard a target from outside the target’s effective range (note that this is not the same as maximum range). Essentially, their role is as a kind of assassin rather than holding ground directly. However, it is essentially the crutch that is keeping ranger competitive – a further longbow nerf shouldn’t happen without buffing the rest to be viable alternatives (including further improving pet AI, particularly when it comes to F2 activated skills). On the other hand, if the alternatives get buffed so that a ranger can fight as effectively as anyone else in melee… then combining that with the ranger’s long-range lethality might be too much.

WvW… I don’t really play enough to comment. PvE… as noted in my previous post, the current PvE meta marginalises a lot of ranger strengths while emphasising their weaknesses, but content design is at least as much at fault there as the ranger’s own characteristics.

myself.2143:

You know what would make the druid something to behold? If pets were turned into spirit versions that only appeared when you attack a with a pet attack or action. Basically removing the auto attack from pets and baking it into the ranger itself. That would solve one issue, but as Random said, there would still be the fact that Rangers offer nothing to a group.

Heck, anet could significantly increase the value of both engineers and rangers if they just turned several skills into combo fields.

… yea like engi wouldnt bring anything to the group. Dont insult us… with our fire fields, water fields, smoke fields, poison, frost and light fields we got 14 available fields… 15 if you count in that one of these is either light or smoke with a 50-50 chance and doubles as a wall of reflect on said light field and our arround 15 available blast finishers on skills, kits and weapons that allow for seamless support and additional ones through traits, our aoe heal(s) and pretty solid group condi removal if needed, our pretty darn good cc and good survivability aswell the ability to quickly adapt to pretty much almost every encounter and depending on who you ask highest condi damage in game at this point, sure the rotation is complex for that but possible…aswell pretty darn solid direct damage, especially with grenades and even the bomb kit and vun stacking on EACH explosive related attack…whats quite a lot. Also engi can stack might by just using elixir related skills on the team… just throwing that in. If you really think an engineer got no value to a team then i will point at you and laugh with pleasure and i suggest you to go to the wiki and atleast read what the engi skills do before you throw something THAT stupid on the table.