Druid shapeshifting
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If they go by what a druid is , they would have nature magic , the ability to heal themselves and others(( as literally thats in the real nature of druid lore. )) And the ability to speak and have packs of animals follow them, as well as the ability to transform into lycanthropes and other “Man-Beasts”. The Druids in guild wars really haven’t ever had a spotlight on them; So its safe to say that this stuff should be in their skill capabilities . Its not a “WoW” Thing , its just WoW uses real druid lore to base that class off of.
That’s definitely not safe to say.
Based on what little we do know about druids in GW2 lore, apart from being focused on nature, they don’t seem like any other druids I’ve seen.
GW2’s druids are … tree monsters. The developers have explicitly said player druids will have plant based based attacks. All current signs point to druids being more plant than animal focused – which rangers already are.
I’d bet heavily on GW2’s druids being relatively original and not a carbon copy of anything we’ve seen before.
If they go by what a druid is , they would have nature magic , the ability to heal themselves and others(( as literally thats in the real nature of druid lore. )) And the ability to speak and have packs of animals follow them, as well as the ability to transform into lycanthropes and other “Man-Beasts”. The Druids in guild wars really haven’t ever had a spotlight on them; So its safe to say that this stuff should be in their skill capabilities . Its not a “WoW” Thing , its just WoW uses real druid lore to base that class off of.
That’s definitely not safe to say.
Based on what little we do know about druids in GW2 lore, apart from being focused on nature, they don’t seem like any other druids I’ve seen.
GW2’s druids are … tree monsters. The developers have explicitly said player druids will have plant based based attacks. All current signs point to druids being more plant than animal focused – which rangers already are.
I’d bet heavily on GW2’s druids being relatively original and not a carbon copy of anything we’ve seen before.
they aren’t tree monsters. they became tree monsters (which is a one-way ritual, before anyone uses it as an argument for plagiarizing norn skills)
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
Have you people that want shapeshifting actually tried playing as those norn animals? They’re terrible. Clunky is an understatement. They’re really really slow. Not sure why anyone outside of RP’ers would want shapeshifting because playing as an animal in this game is a extremely terribly bad experience.
RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.
Hey so how about plant transformations? Humans can already do it with racial.
Honestly all I see is a bunch of emotional wishes based on feelings of becoming a wolf or bear, or even a tree. No solid ideas on mechanics besides Kaiyanwan’s which I already responded to. There’s no reason for Anet to reskin the Elementalist and call it a Druid. That would be the most disappointing way to go about it. I’m all for adding a shapeshifting Druid, but it should be unique somehow.
And just because you think there will be 3-4 specs a year from now is no excuse not to at least try to make a profession mechanic interesting instead of copy/paste.
Honestly all I see is a bunch of emotional wishes based on feelings of becoming a wolf or bear, or even a tree. No solid ideas on mechanics besides Kaiyanwan’s which I already responded to. There’s no reason for Anet to reskin the Elementalist and call it a Druid. That would be the most disappointing way to go about it. I’m all for adding a shapeshifting Druid, but it should be unique somehow.
And just because you think there will be 3-4 specs a year from now is no excuse not to at least try to make a profession mechanic interesting instead of copy/paste.
Only class that uses shape shifting in any major way is Necro.
People keep talking about Norns, but Norns are a race not a class.
Honestly all I see is a bunch of emotional wishes based on feelings of becoming a wolf or bear, or even a tree. No solid ideas on mechanics besides Kaiyanwan’s which I already responded to. There’s no reason for Anet to reskin the Elementalist and call it a Druid. That would be the most disappointing way to go about it. I’m all for adding a shapeshifting Druid, but it should be unique somehow.
And just because you think there will be 3-4 specs a year from now is no excuse not to at least try to make a profession mechanic interesting instead of copy/paste.
Only class that uses shape shifting in any major way is Necro.
People keep talking about Norns, but Norns are a race not a class.
people keep talking about norns because norns are the ones that have animal shapeshifting as their main thing. they’re not oversized humans, they’re werebears.
it would be like releasing a profession that uses the human gods as a mechanic (hai dervish).
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
Honestly all I see is a bunch of emotional wishes based on feelings of becoming a wolf or bear, or even a tree. No solid ideas on mechanics besides Kaiyanwan’s which I already responded to. There’s no reason for Anet to reskin the Elementalist and call it a Druid. That would be the most disappointing way to go about it. I’m all for adding a shapeshifting Druid, but it should be unique somehow.
And just because you think there will be 3-4 specs a year from now is no excuse not to at least try to make a profession mechanic interesting instead of copy/paste.
Only class that uses shape shifting in any major way is Necro.
People keep talking about Norns, but Norns are a race not a class.
What do Norn forms and Necro death shroud have in common? They change your avatar (which is purely a cosmetic effect) and change your 1-5 skills (which is the mechanics I’m talking about). What else does this? Elementalist attunements and conjure weapons. Also Engineer kits. Mechanically all of these things are the same in that they switch your 1-5 skill.
Lets set Norn forms aside because, as you said, they are racial skills. Lets look at the proposed Druid shapeshifting (not Kaiyanwan’s, but the very undefined, loose descriptions others have given).
You get the ability to become a bear, or a wolf, or a tree, or something. You get skills based on those creatures… somehow… I can only assume they mean the 1-5 skill slots. There is little mention of how conveniently you can swap forms. Can you swap in and out of bear form instantly like an Engie kit? Or is there a short cooldown like Elementalist attunement or Death Shroud? What sets it apart from any of these things which would make it worth the time to develop as a distinct specialization?
To illustrate what I mean by different, I direct your attention to the difference between Elementalist Attunements, Necromancer Death Shroud, and Engineer kits.
Attunements:
- short cooldown sets it apart from Engie kits
- availability of 4 Attunements sets it apart from Death Shroud
Death Shroud:
- short cooldown sets it apart from Kits
- extra health bar sets it apart from both Attunements and Kits
- locks you out of healing and using utility skills
Kits:
- no cooldown sets them apart from Attunements and Death Shroud
- uses utility skill slots, not F1-F4 sets it apart from the others
Honestly all I see is a bunch of emotional wishes based on feelings of becoming a wolf or bear, or even a tree. No solid ideas on mechanics besides Kaiyanwan’s which I already responded to. There’s no reason for Anet to reskin the Elementalist and call it a Druid. That would be the most disappointing way to go about it. I’m all for adding a shapeshifting Druid, but it should be unique somehow.
And just because you think there will be 3-4 specs a year from now is no excuse not to at least try to make a profession mechanic interesting instead of copy/paste.
Only class that uses shape shifting in any major way is Necro.
People keep talking about Norns, but Norns are a race not a class.
people keep talking about norns because norns are the ones that have animal shapeshifting as their main thing. they’re not oversized humans, they’re werebears.
it would be like releasing a profession that uses the human gods as a mechanic (hai dervish).
Using that logic, ranger class in general shouldn’t have got Entangle and Tree Spirit because those are also
Sylvari Racials…….
See how that logic don’t add up. Can’t compare Racials to Class skills. Class skills are useable in SPvP, Racials are not. Class skills are effected by Traits, Racials are not….
Racials were by design, similar to class skills, not the other way around.
So Racials in no way determine what skills a class can or can not have…..
they aren’t tree monsters. they became tree monsters (which is a one-way ritual, before anyone uses it as an argument for plagiarizing norn skills)
No. Basic tense. They are tree monsters now, ergo they ARE tree monsters.
they aren’t tree monsters. they became tree monsters (which is a one-way ritual, before anyone uses it as an argument for plagiarizing norn skills)
No. Basic tense. They are tree monsters now, ergo they ARE tree monsters.
well, now they’re dead :P
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
well, now they’re dead :P
Dead? Where do you get that from?
Going by the wiki entry, some husks have been found which appear dead. They may or may not be. There’s also no reason to believe that those husks are all of the druids.
Their being spirits doesn’t necessarily make them dead either. It’s one possibility but I wouldn’t call it a certainty.
they aren’t tree monsters. they became tree monsters (which is a one-way ritual, before anyone uses it as an argument for plagiarizing norn skills)
No. Basic tense. They are tree monsters now, ergo they ARE tree monsters.
well, now they’re dead :P
Last I checked I killed a lot of players in the game and NPC for them to return back to life a few seconds later to a few hours later.
So let’s not rule out the Druids yet. Lol
Class skills are effected by Traits, Racials are not….
Just FYI – I haven’t checked this myself recently but the wiki entry for the Sylvari druid summon still says it’s affected by ranger spirit traits.
In regards to myself, Xenon is right: a lot of my opinions were furnished by an emotional desire to play primarily as a shape shifter. Interestingly enough though, as I’ve read these comments, I’ve began to lose interest in what I originally wanted out of shape shifting: that is, just playing is a werewolf or werebear. Instead, the idea of shedding our mortal skin and becoming some sort of ‘spirit being’ just seems too magical. I guess, now, I’m finding myself less inclined to experience what I have already experienced in other games, and instead interested in experiencing something fresh and new, and especially something in alignment with GW2 lore.
As to speaking of new mechanics, what if the mechanic for shape shifting was sort of based on Tyrian Druid lore – how it was kinda a one way ticket for them. What if there was a similar consequence in player based shape shifting, one that is sort of an opposite of a cooldown: like, once you shape shifted into a spirit, you couldn’t shape shift out of it for say like 10 seconds; however, once you shifted out, you could immediately shift back in if you wanted. That way, someone like myself could play as much as I wanted in a shifted form; however, I’d have to know that at certain moments it could mean doom, as there is no going back once I’ve made that choice (for at least a short while). Something like that could provide some weight to the experience of shape shifting, adding in a nice risk factor that really puts an emphasis on the experience. The risk factor, though, would arise by what it meant to be locked in the form; and that would depend upon what it meant to be shifted – new utilities? new moves? idk!
(edited by tyler.2569)
@tyler
Dude you have no idea how weird it is for me to read “Xenon is right” in a sentence. Usually the internet gets fussy when I say something logical.
Anyway I tried to come up with another idea. I feel like any attempt to make shapeshifting use quick swapping is going to feel too much like engineer or elementalist. For example if you have 3-4 different forms readily available, lets say wolf, bear, tree, and bird. Lets say you can swap to any of them at any time, and it puts the previous one on cooldown. Well that’s exactly like elementalist. If you remove the cooldown, its exactly like engineer.
I’m thinking what if we made the shapeshift into a more permanent effect. This is going to sound a lot like the current Norn skills, but hang with me for a sec. Make the Druid forms be elite skills. You have to chose which one you want before battle, and the skill will change your avatar and weapon skills for a long period of time (say 2 minutes). You could cancel the form any time, but it would have a 3 minute cooldown regardless. While in the form you have your pet control skills replaced with some sort of burst ability. so you lose some control of your pet while transformed, but you gain increased stats, different attack skills, and some burst skills. The idea is to make the shapeshifter a major threat on the battlefield. He’s like a warrior or guardian getting in your face and messing you up. The catch is you have some longer downtime between shapeshifting.
Just an idea. I still like Kaiyanwan’s idea about shapeshifting into the type of animal your current pet is.
Let’s be honest. There are quite some misconceptions in this thread.
First of all, shapeshifting is not a norn thing. It is just that all Norn elites are shapeshifts. But hey, what about Avatar of Melandru? It is a prime example of shapeshifting, and it is for humans.
In the end there are two kinds of shapeshifting in this game. Racials like norn skills and avatar of melandru, elite skills which all more or less fail. They are pretty much useless in all situations and not worth putting them on the skill bar.
And there is profession based shapeshifting, like death shroud and necro elite skills, which actually can work and have a place in actual gameplay.
Secondly, while I get Xenon’s point to add hobo packs and attunements towards shapeshifting, I do not agree with this point of view. Though I agree that the mechanic for possible druid shapeshifting must differ from what we got in game right now to a certain degree.
Shapeshifting should not be on a timer or a cooldown. It is why racial elites fail. They are too short to use efficiently and they are never available when you need them. Locking out all utility is sort of OK, if the benefits of the shapeshift compensate for the loss.
Death shroud works because it does exactly that. You get very useful skills for the cost of your utility. But death shroud is not really shapeshifting in the traditional sense, as you get a whole new healthbar, that is not related to your actual health pool. It is more like a phaseshift, which justifies the time limit and (short) cooldown.
Unfortunately, the true shapeshifter profession will be the revenant, which will limit the option for the druid. But there is still hope.
Druids may go with the concept: No time limit in form, change at any time without cooldown, loss of utility, gaining new weapon skills. If the idea is bound to the equipped pets, you have four skills per shift already in place, maybe tweaking some numbers is neccesary. Four skills would be enough imo anyway. Give the druid a heal that can be used in forms and this mechanic could work.
Just imagine the variety possible. This sounds like a lot of fun. All those shapes, all those cominations. While you are limited to two shapes at a time, the number of combination would still be impressive.
You would keep F1, F3 and F4 from the ranger skills. As a druid, F2 will not work as command for the pet, but for you to turn into the same creature as your pet. Now the former F2 skill will be on your weapon bar as usable skill as well as the three other pet attacks. Play in form as long as you want, but to use your utility or elite, you have to shift out, which will motivate you not to stay in a form for too long.
I see some balancing issues of course and the possibility of underpowered forms, but not all has to be perfect from the start.
One can always dream…
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Secondly, while I get Xenon’s point to add hobo packs and attunements towards shapeshifting, I do not agree with this point of view. Though I agree that the mechanic for possible druid shapeshifting must differ from what we got in game right now to a certain degree.
I was only saying that mechanically they are similar. I wasn’t saying the hobosacks are shapeshifting. They replace your 1-5 skills and are readily available for swapping. That is essentially what people want from shapeshifting aside from the cosmetic effect of changing their avatar into a wolf or bear.
All I really want is for people to brainstorm some useful ideas about the mechanics, because at the end of the day that is what Anet can use in their design process. Changing cosmetically into an animal is easy and actually has little to do with designing a profession specialization. So if they really want a shapeshifter, they need to talk mechanics. That is what Anet will be looking for in a discussion like this.
Norn already got this. They’re not gonna add it again.
First of all, shapeshifting is not a norn thing. It is just that all Norn elites are shapeshifts. But hey, what about Avatar of Melandru? It is a prime example of shapeshifting, and it is for humans.
actually, yes, shapeshifting is a norn thing. in-game it’s (very poorly) represented as a kinda lame elite skill, but “i can become my totem spirit” is the whole point of norns in lore. Jora was an outcast because she was touched by jormag and lost the power to become bear, whereas her brother, svanir (you might know the name), became corrupted and so he was the first icebrood.
kodans believe that norn used to be a long lost kodan tribe that fell out of grace, which is why they can only temporarily stay in their “superior bear form”.
it’s even in the race’s description. have you even seen norn NPCs? it’s like the first thing they do before fighting, they just turn into a giant bear.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
First of all, shapeshifting is not a norn thing. It is just that all Norn elites are shapeshifts. But hey, what about Avatar of Melandru? It is a prime example of shapeshifting, and it is for humans.
actually, yes, shapeshifting is a norn thing. in-game it’s (very poorly) represented as a kinda lame elite skill, but “i can become my totem spirit” is the whole point of norns in lore. Jora was an outcast because she was touched by jormag and lost the power to become bear, whereas her brother, svanir (you might know the name), became corrupted and so he was the first icebrood.
kodans believe that norn used to be a long lost kodan tribe that fell out of grace, which is why they can only temporarily stay in their “superior bear form”.
it’s even in the race’s description. have you even seen norn NPCs? it’s like the first thing they do before fighting, they just turn into a giant bear.
I know the GW1 lore.
The lore just simply doesn’t change the fact, that GW2 has shapeshifting in other variations than the norn beast forms.
Norn might be shapeshifters and terrible ones too, but this does not diminish the other shapeshift capabilities offered by race or profession.
Necromancers are way superior shapeshifters. Does this interfere with norn lore? No.
Would druid shapeshifters – in whatever from – interfere with lore. No.
So what is the problem.
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Druids in this universe aren’t known for shapeshifting as much as they are known for hanging out in forests and using nature magic.
GW1 rangers had a lot of druid in them, and spirit summons and general nature magic were important parts of the class. I’d expect GW2 druids to play a lot like a R/Mo wheras a Ranger plays a lot like a R/W (only both of them are saddled with a pet as a requirement rather than an option.)
Guild Master – The Papacy [POPE] (Gate of Madness)/Road Scholar for the Durmand Priory
Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
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Writer/Director – Quaggan Quest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky2TGPmMPeQ
First of all, shapeshifting is not a norn thing. It is just that all Norn elites are shapeshifts.
Definitely.
In the end there are two kinds of shapeshifting in this game. Racials like norn skills and avatar of melandru, elite skills which all more or less fail.
Actually there’s two more you shouldn’t discount, particularly as it relates to this topic.
1) There’s potions which cause cosmetic, non-combat transformations.
2) There are a whole bunch of missions where NPC’s transform you into a different form. There are several animal forms plus there’s that one in the sw corner of Caledon forest where you’re turned into a walking tree – my personal favourite.
So absolutely positively 137% shapeshifting is not a Norn thing!
First of all, shapeshifting is not a norn thing. It is just that all Norn elites are shapeshifts. But hey, what about Avatar of Melandru? It is a prime example of shapeshifting, and it is for humans.
actually, yes, shapeshifting is a norn thing. in-game it’s (very poorly) represented as a kinda lame elite skill, but “i can become my totem spirit” is the whole point of norns in lore. Jora was an outcast because she was touched by jormag and lost the power to become bear, whereas her brother, svanir (you might know the name), became corrupted and so he was the first icebrood.
kodans believe that norn used to be a long lost kodan tribe that fell out of grace, which is why they can only temporarily stay in their “superior bear form”.
it’s even in the race’s description. have you even seen norn NPCs? it’s like the first thing they do before fighting, they just turn into a giant bear.
I know the GW1 lore.
The lore just simply doesn’t change the fact, that GW2 has shapeshifting in other variations than the norn beast forms.
Norn might be shapeshifters and terrible ones too, but this does not diminish the other shapeshift capabilities offered by race or profession.
Necromancers are way superior shapeshifters. Does this interfere with norn lore? No.
Would druid shapeshifters – in whatever from – interfere with lore. No.So what is the problem.
you’re confusing mechanical things with lore things. norn are the only ones that can literally turn into animals whenever they please. it’s their thing, their unique racial trait, just like “being planty things that are born as grown adults” is the sylvari thing and “being big hairy cats with horns” is the charr thing.
i’m not saying “norn are the only ones that can transform into anything different”, i’m saying norn are the only ones that can transform into animals, or else you might as well throw the race away, because you just turned their defining trait into something anyone can learn with effort and a bit of magic.
LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell
First of all, shapeshifting is not a norn thing. It is just that all Norn elites are shapeshifts. But hey, what about Avatar of Melandru? It is a prime example of shapeshifting, and it is for humans.
actually, yes, shapeshifting is a norn thing. in-game it’s (very poorly) represented as a kinda lame elite skill, but “i can become my totem spirit” is the whole point of norns in lore. Jora was an outcast because she was touched by jormag and lost the power to become bear, whereas her brother, svanir (you might know the name), became corrupted and so he was the first icebrood.
kodans believe that norn used to be a long lost kodan tribe that fell out of grace, which is why they can only temporarily stay in their “superior bear form”.
it’s even in the race’s description. have you even seen norn NPCs? it’s like the first thing they do before fighting, they just turn into a giant bear.
I know the GW1 lore.
The lore just simply doesn’t change the fact, that GW2 has shapeshifting in other variations than the norn beast forms.
Norn might be shapeshifters and terrible ones too, but this does not diminish the other shapeshift capabilities offered by race or profession.
Necromancers are way superior shapeshifters. Does this interfere with norn lore? No.
Would druid shapeshifters – in whatever from – interfere with lore. No.So what is the problem.
you’re confusing mechanical things with lore things. norn are the only ones that can literally turn into animals whenever they please. it’s their thing, their unique racial trait, just like “being planty things that are born as grown adults” is the sylvari thing and “being big hairy cats with horns” is the charr thing.
i’m not saying “norn are the only ones that can transform into anything different”, i’m saying norn are the only ones that can transform into animals, or else you might as well throw the race away, because you just turned their defining trait into something anyone can learn with effort and a bit of magic.
As a human, I can transform into the Avatar of Melandru.
This actually is shapeshifting. As only humans became druids, this kind of shapeshifting is a human/druid only thing. With your argumentation, only humans should ever become druids, no other race has the right to do so. You think this is how druids will work in GW2? Yeah, no.
Sorry to burst your “norn only” bubble, but all humans got the exact same kind of shapeshifting as norns do.
Long cooldown, short duration, no heal/utility/seperate elite.
Same elite is same. So I have to ask you again, where is the problem?
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They also said all the elite skills would be getting other skills found on other classes like warrior shouts on elementalist, or traps on guardian. Like why couldn’t we get shapeshifting as a kit skill or like a shroud, and in GW1 lore they turned to tree spirits, but if they can shift into tree spirits that opens the door to other spirits of nature as well. it wouldn’t be like other transformations in game because the others have durations, instead make it like an engineer kit skill except around plant/animal forms where you give up a utility skill slot to gain a shape shifting one… or 3. Furthermore oakheart isn’t the only plant creature in game. with introduction of Mordrum that opens doors. After all Druids of GW1 last were seen going to muguuma jungle , right? Why wouldn’t they know how to change into the plant based creatures of that jungle in which they live? If not shapeshifting then i can see them giving us access to taming the plant based creatures of the jungle to add in addition to the animal based pets. What i mean by that is if your a druid then let them call out both a plant based pet and animal based pet at the same time. Like say a terrorgrif and a devourer pet as maybe a trait skill. If shapeshifting isn’t a kit skill then give us a nature based version of necro summon skills except make them summon plant based creatures as minions to be called with ranger pet .
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