Guild Wars 2

These days I got kicked out from a party just because I had my two guns. I was stacked, and party leader said: “You are using ranged, bye” lol

Can we have improvement on Dungeons? Like make them impossible to stack, and actually facing it?

What can we expect from dungeons in this new Exp?

It does not look like regular dungeons will change at all from HoT, unless Elite specs cause changes in meta — and this is hard to know until we see numbers. Fractals was mentioned in the HoT reveal, though what might happen to FotM has not, to my knowledge, been revealed. I wouldn’t get my hopes up over any changes made by ANet changing exclusion behavior. That’s going to be there no matter what ANet does.

Frankly, if you want a dungeon experience where the party does not care what weapons you choose, you’d be better served to find a guild that does relaxed dungeons.

Sir James.7831:

These days I got kicked out from a party just because I had my two guns. I was stacked, and party leader said: “You are using ranged, bye” lol

Can we have improvement on Dungeons? Like make them impossible to stack, and actually facing it?

What can we expect from dungeons in this new Exp?

so you use low damage weapon sets and complain that you were kicked and then want every single dungeon overhauled to fit your preference?

you don’t think that’s a little selfish at all?

Dungeons already aren’t always winnable only by stacking. Also, ranged or not, that was just a player worth ignoring. I’m sorry you had to deal with him.

And if you really want a dungeon without having to stack, i guess you’d better play a dungeon with friends you can talk with (with skype or something else),as there is no time to strategize in the middle of battle by writing in the chat XD, so with stacking everyone just do their best

Sir James.7831:

What can we expect from dungeons in this new Exp?

For ArenaNet to pretend they don’t exist.

They already fired the dungeon team. And dungeons are arguably tied with PvP as the worst aspect of the game, as all the drama around them show. It’s actually a good idea to avoid new dungeons in HoT.

maha.7902:

so you use low damage weapon sets and complain that you were kicked and then want every single dungeon overhauled to fit your preference?

you don’t think that’s a little selfish at all?

Have you ever seen P/P thief build? I can dish out a lot of dmg mate. Thing is, I can’t even choose the weapons I use ? I guess this is not selfish, I’m just trying to enjoy the dungeon on another way (not with D/D for example).

and I want nothing, I’m just speculating. In my mind its cooler if you can kill everymob and actually enjoy the dungeon, rather than stacking on a corner seeing only shinny lights and whatnots.

Little tip. Create your own group with no requirements.

Have you ever seen P/P thief build? I can dish out a lot of dmg mate

no, you make a big number with unloads. but big number =/= high damage per second. p/p thief damage isn’t really close to d/d damage which is why you were kicked.

I guess this is not selfish, I’m just trying to enjoy the dungeon on another way (not with D/D for example).

“I’m just trying to enjoy the dungeon the way I want and want to disregard the interests of the four other players because my entertainment > their entertainment” sounds pretty selfish to me.

n my mind its cooler if you can kill everymob and actually enjoy the dungeon, rather than stacking on a corner seeing only shinny lights and whatnots.

and who are you to judge what people find fun or not? some people enjoy stacking mobs in corners. some people enjoy stacking them in the open. some people enjoy ranging everything. some people just enjoy the chaos of a mixture of range and melee as a boss jumps around between party members.

so what is it you were saying again? ANet please design dungeons entirely around my interests, I don’t care what other people enjoy?

The problem is deeper than just dungeons, in my opinion. The problem is the whole zerg > all, stack > all. For the most part the best strategy is to stack and spam 1 to win.. and that’s not really something I’d call ‘strategy’. Original EQ had a lot more need for planning and strategy, and that’s .. what, about 15 years back?

I guess what would be needed is ‘hard mode dungeons’, but they’d need a much deeper redesign than just scaling the mobs. Something that would actually require party to take various roles during the encounters. And I don’t mean ‘bring back the trinity’. I mean roles regarding the fight itself. Something like what you need to properly run the triple trouble, just in smaller scale.

Not all the dungeons are like that, mind you. There are ones where you actually need some skill, knowledge and coordination. But more of that would be welcome. And a bit more scaling of the reward versus effort, so that running the more demanding dungeons would feel more worthwhile.

dungeons should really be open world’ish…….as more people come in, the dungeon scales up. when the map is full, a new map is made…..

the problem is, the way the dungeon is designed to be now, appeals to elitists – people should be able to enter a dungeon with their own team, but they should not be the only way to enter. that 5 minimum rule has got to go.

1. L2P.
2. Dungeons are abandonware at this point (they’ve actually said so).

Lord Kuru.3685:

1. L2P.
2. Dungeons are abandonware at this point (they’ve actually said so).

Just out of curiosity, do you have a source?

Wow
I think you’re right OP but for the “wrong” reasons.
What I mean is:
-most of the time groups are “meta or leave” wich is quite sad imo, therefore I think you’re right on this point
-“make it impossible to stack”… well that’s where you’re wrong to me. Sure I find it really boring to do, and tbh there’s 0 challenge. when I read “l2P” as an answer to your post it made my day. The current meta is absolutely brainless and require no skill at all. But it still should be possible to do it that way since some players enjoyed it.

As it was said, the problem with the current meta is that berzerker is stronger than everything else and the AI is terrible wich make possible to stack every mobs on the map. So the meta won’t change. Why? because loots from dungeon are bad, not worth spending time in a dungeon, and since you can rush dungeons in 10min well lets not waste time to get crappy loots.
Once again, as it was said, devs have (not directly) said that dungeons aren’t gonna be part of HoT and not something worth their time.
But HoT will introduce “challenging content” wich should change the meta. Lets just wait and see.

PS: I main necro, I love dungeon, and beside when I’m with friends I don’t do dungeon because of the same reason as you. The funniest thing is, we play 2 nec, 1 guard, 1 mes, 1 ranger and we are almost all the time faster than every meta group that i’ve seen. Because a lot (LOT) of players play the meta but don’t master it, so they are way less efficient that it should be.

RoterFuchs.9216:

Lord Kuru.3685:

1. L2P.
2. Dungeons are abandonware at this point (they’ve actually said so).

Just out of curiosity, do you have a source?

Q: When will we get more dungeon, fractal, any kind of dungeon related changes? Like another question is hardmode for dungeons.

• Hardmode is something we’re staying away from at this point.
• Thrown around ideas to increase longevity of dungeons without doing major reworks like Twilight Arbour.
• Twilight Arbour was a pretty serious amount of work. Not necessarily something they want to commit to at this point (Aug 22, 2014).
• Fractals are flexible; allow to add smaller chunks of content without the work required to redo a dungeon.

Melee will always be far superior compared to ranged in this game. Core game mechanics. They can’t change. Sorry.

Yeah sadly dungeons are very low in their priorities.

Though to be fair, most other MMOs concentrate heavily on raids and dungeons as their main endgame content so I’m not against them going for a different approach.

That said, it feels like a missed oppurtunity. Well, maybe at a later time we’ll get a new dungeon.

Sadly it looks like A-net have completely abandoned anything to do with Dungeons at this point… Kind of a shame especially considering that running them is laughably easy at this point but I don’t know if they will ever bother to “fix” dungeons… I can dream though right?

They’ve already said, with much consternation from the community, that there will be no new dungeons and that dungeons will only be tweaked here and there. I’d give you the source but I’m too lazy to look. It was in some kind of live stream.

Anet failed kitten dungeons because they didn’t design the early dungeons very well at all. Even the later dungeons from LS season 1 and fractals were still not that well designed, although they were much better. The fact that nobody in a dungeon party has a designated role, other than trying not to go down, makes for difficult dungeon design. This is why Anet has focused on open world zerg content more than anything else. There’s less thought necessary in that type of design.

Mordalus.8146:

The fact that nobody in a dungeon party has a designated role, other than trying not to go down, makes for difficult dungeon design.

thats just wrong. if you still think gw2 needs roles then you dont understand anything about the game.
in gw2 everyone contributes to everything instead of having a dedicated healer and tank. you dont need “roles”. the combat system could be much more complex and have more depth than any trinity combat system, if anet designed really hard pve content.

you could add any raid or dungeon boss from any other MMO to gw2, tweak some numbers and it would work. with the difference that people wouldnt be able to slack.

NoTrigger.8396:

Mordalus.8146:

The fact that nobody in a dungeon party has a designated role, other than trying not to go down, makes for difficult dungeon design.

thats just wrong. if you still think gw2 needs roles then you dont understand anything about the game.
in gw2 everyone contributes to everything instead of having a dedicated healer and tank. you dont need “roles”. the combat system could be much more complex and have more depth than any trinity combat system, if anet designed really hard pve content.

you could add any raid or dungeon boss from any other MMO to gw2, tweak some numbers and it would work. with the difference that people wouldnt be able to slack.

The argument is a bit moot, but I’ll point out anyway – no, it wouldn’t work at all.. and neither does it need to, because GW2 is not ‘every other MMO’. Without trinity, any raid boss that’s designed to smack the tank so hard that every hit brings even the super buffed tank down to 10% of their life – requiring healers to time and cycle a constant stream of full heals.. would wipe out a GW2 party, one character per hit – because there is no class in GW2 so dedicated to surviving that kind of beating.

Similarly an unavoidable AoE that GW2 party might survive, could likely wipe the glass cannons or healers of that same raid in another game. That’s neither a fault of GW2, nor is it fault of the other game – it doesn’t by itself make either of them better or worse. It’s simply an entirely different design philosophy.

‘Roles’ in dungeon party don’t have to equal ‘trinity’. There’s ‘roles’ in Tequatl fight for example – turret users, turret defenders, melee DPS, ranged DPS. There’s more complex mechanics and roles in Triple Trouble fight. Roles can simply mean that there are certain tasks that need to be accomplished simultaneously, and different members of party are assigned for those tasks.. and need to work together in a coordinated manner to clear the obstacle.

If things are reduced to ‘stack, spam 1, hit dodge when red circle appears’, there’s no real roles or strategy. And the only real challenge is to click the ‘other button’ at correct time.

can someone seriously tell me how a fight giving you the option to press 1 next to a dragon’s foot or press 1 a little bit of distance away is so mindblowingly interesting?

like why are people so fixated on ranged weapons? staff ele is op as hell when you can have someone basically sit at range away from danger and still output higher dps than all the other classes in their party.

i’m not even going to pretend gw2 dungeons are challenging, but this whole “you just stack and press 1” lying has gone on way too long.

Have you seen what our characters say to the new dungeon vendor in LA? They call the dungeon items, “relics” i.e. forgotten things of the past. That screams abandonment. It’s too bad they are tossing aside instanced group content. I know I am in the minority, but dungeons and fractals were my fave part of this game.

Kitsune.1902:

NoTrigger.8396:

Mordalus.8146:

The fact that nobody in a dungeon party has a designated role, other than trying not to go down, makes for difficult dungeon design.

thats just wrong. if you still think gw2 needs roles then you dont understand anything about the game.
in gw2 everyone contributes to everything instead of having a dedicated healer and tank. you dont need “roles”. the combat system could be much more complex and have more depth than any trinity combat system, if anet designed really hard pve content.

you could add any raid or dungeon boss from any other MMO to gw2, tweak some numbers and it would work. with the difference that people wouldnt be able to slack.

The argument is a bit moot, but I’ll point out anyway – no, it wouldn’t work at all.. and neither does it need to, because GW2 is not ‘every other MMO’. Without trinity, any raid boss that’s designed to smack the tank so hard that every hit brings even the super buffed tank down to 10% of their life – requiring healers to time and cycle a constant stream of full heals.. would wipe out a GW2 party, one character per hit – because there is no class in GW2 so dedicated to surviving that kind of beating.

Similarly an unavoidable AoE that GW2 party might survive, could likely wipe the glass cannons or healers of that same raid in another game. That’s neither a fault of GW2, nor is it fault of the other game – it doesn’t by itself make either of them better or worse. It’s simply an entirely different design philosophy.

‘Roles’ in dungeon party don’t have to equal ‘trinity’. There’s ‘roles’ in Tequatl fight for example – turret users, turret defenders, melee DPS, ranged DPS. There’s more complex mechanics and roles in Triple Trouble fight. Roles can simply mean that there are certain tasks that need to be accomplished simultaneously, and different members of party are assigned for those tasks.. and need to work together in a coordinated manner to clear the obstacle.

If things are reduced to ‘stack, spam 1, hit dodge when red circle appears’, there’s no real roles or strategy. And the only real challenge is to click the ‘other button’ at correct time.

in gw2 you can get good and avoid damage instead of tanking it. and you obviously didnt read the part where i said “tweak some numbers”.

mechanics make a good fight, a trinity doesnt. and the guy i was replying to was talking in another thread about tank and healers being useless even when the gear for these “roles” is in the game. just saying.

Iason Evan.3806:

I know I am in the minority, but dungeons and fractals were my fave part of this game.

They are the fav part out of 90% of my friends in the game, unfortunately a lot of them left due to ANet abandoning them. Quite a few who are still playing are waiting to hear about the “Challenging Content” announcements before they finally decide to leave.

NoTrigger.8396:

in gw2 you can get good and avoid damage instead of tanking it. and you obviously didnt read the part where i said “tweak some numbers”.

mechanics make a good fight, a trinity doesnt. and the guy i was replying to was talking in another thread about tank and healers being useless even when the gear for these “roles” is in the game. just saying.

It’s not just a question of numbers, it’s the whole encounter design. Ultimately you could ‘tweak numbers’ to reduce all damage to one, or zero and say ‘see – my thief tanked it just fine’. But the ‘old school’ trinity raid system relies on tanks holding boss aggro 100% of time, and healers timing and doing their heals as planned. And DPS not grabbing the aggro. They grab aggro, just once, and it all goes to hell. In many cases there were specific spots in the boss room where you’d have to set up DPS, healers, and where you had to pull the boss. GW2 classes are not made to handle that kind of gameplay.

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing in any way. Just that they are designed for different game, and wouldn’t work in an old school trinity setting. Consequently you can’t really bring the old trinity into GW2 without reworking the whole system.

I used to play back in original EQ, although I rarely went into raids. But enough to get the feel of how the system worked. It had it’s place, and usually required more skill and awareness than GW2 dungeons. I also played warrior in TERA. That class took a long time for me to learn well enough to actually work.. but after I got to that point, I really loved it.

GW2 is trying to do something similar to TERA, but somehow it doesn’t seem to work quite the same way. Maybe because for the most part ‘more dps’ trumps everything else.

Yes, apparently they have pretty much given up on dungeons, but I’d say the same isn’t quite true for fractals. More like fractals are taking the place that dungeons originally were meant to have.

I also hope they’ll eventually bring back the SAB. I really had a blast with it. It should be a permanent ‘activity’ option in the game. It’s not something you’d do all the time, but would be great to have that option when you felt like it.

OP here is how you can improve dungeons for yourself:

Open LFG
Create New LFG
In description write : casual run , all welcome, full clear, no stacking

If anyone joins and tries to speedrun or skip just kick them. No need to feel bad since they couldnt even be bothered to read your LFG.

zombyturtle.5980:

OP here is how you can improve dungeons for yourself:

Open LFG
Create New LFG
In description write : casual run , all welcome, full clear, no stacking

If anyone joins and tries to speedrun or skip just kick them. No need to feel bad since they couldnt even be bothered to read your LFG.

The problem is it’s more likely you’ll get 3-4 people who didn’t bother to read, and they’ll kick -you- for being a slowpoke

Ehhhh.
I don’t know.

My knee jerk emotional reaction is a forlorn sigh and a trailing “…probably not”.
On the other hand, something about the idea that dungeons will exist as a perfect pristine time capsule bothers me logically.

Having two separate AI systems running parallel to eachother is straight-up dangerous, and with the announcement that Breakbars would be added retroactively to mobs it seems less likely they would be making some kind of hail mary stab at trying anyway via quarantine. I think the old mobs will be receiving the updated AI albeit a bit more homogeneously. I really can’t see them acknowledging the AI needs improvement enough to go through all the work of installing a new system, just to strive to make it behave like the old system they got so many complaints about.

in dungeeon, use d/p. you’ll contribute to the group.

Sir James.7831:

These days I got kicked out from a party just because I had my two guns. I was stacked, and party leader said: “You are using ranged, bye” lol

Can we have improvement on Dungeons? Like make them impossible to stack, and actually facing it?

What can we expect from dungeons in this new Exp?

I had people kick me from a group once because the WvW bonus max health made my health seem too high (with whatever mod they were using) and they were convinced I wasn’t in full zerker.

The trashiest, most toxic parts of the community aggregate to speed dungeon pug groups.

I hate to say it, but I think dungeons as we know them are a thing of the past in GW2.

I suspect they will focus their efforts on fractals, which seem to be easier to implement and design.

I like fractals, but I would find them more enjoyable if groups could actually vote on which they got (with some restrictions based on tier and difficulty) rather than have to deal with the randomness (meaning you never have a clear idea how long a fractal will last).

As for roles/fight complexity, there are very clear roles and functions players can fill in dungeons/fractals. The issue right now is, the a lack of truly challenging fights means most players ignore those potential roles and just try to bulldoze their way through most fights (usually successfully).

I have high hopes for complex fights in HOT, but I would enjoy some clarification from the devs regarding how we will get those fights.

but on the same hand, like minds tend to come together like open fights such as tequatl and Jormag -

if we could simply have dungeons that allow one person to enter, and as more people are in proximity to each other, the monsters also level up – I don’t want to say when more enter the dungeon because there is always that guy that will go in a dungeon just to make it harder for the solo player.

It’s unfortunate but many things in the game get spoiled because of anti social behavior as well – we have a ton of friendly people …….but it doesn’t take many to ruin a part of the game.

Another reason I suggest character alignments in game – some people really do enjoy and are proud of acting evil, instead of fighting it, make a mechanism for it so they can stick with their own kind – an evil rp is most likely the one to spend most time trying to exploit the game …it’s been like that since mmorpg was first brought online – make evil / dark versions of the dungeons for them – i met the first evil guys, they were actually fun people, but simply were psychos online and took it to a whole nother level! lol – it’s a part of the culture and well, it’s just a part of the culture – just like mosquitoes – you’ll only throw off natures balance by trying to eliminate them :p
and naturally, people will gravitate to the alignment they like to play – evil play hardcore, good are more casual – and gray are both casual and hardcore depending on the events. There is a psychology to it. in fact, they make great celebrities – nothing like having a notorious evil character walking through town in mid daylight – everyone stops talking and pushes their children to safety as the dreaded monster peacefully walks through town smiling innocently at everyone.

the other phenomena about this approach, is people of good alignment shun the evil who pretend to rp as good – get severely chastised and rejected by the ‘good’ rp community. It’s quite fascinating to watch actually.

it’s why i went gray, fine…don’t trust me, just don’t hate me for no good reason, at the very least allow me a chance to offend you before you reject me from society! where as evil rp’rs are rejected and distrusted by good rpgrs. I’d be interested to see how that would play out in open world events! lol

living life as an outcast does have it’s merits!

That’s a shame. I wanted at least one new dungeon in HoT.

Marthkus.4615:

Sir James.7831:

These days I got kicked out from a party just because I had my two guns. I was stacked, and party leader said: “You are using ranged, bye” lol

Can we have improvement on Dungeons? Like make them impossible to stack, and actually facing it?

What can we expect from dungeons in this new Exp?

I had people kick me from a group once because the WvW bonus max health made my health seem too high (with whatever mod they were using) and they were convinced I wasn’t in full zerker.

The trashiest, most toxic parts of the community aggregate to speed dungeon pug groups.

i’m pretty sure health bonuses are disabled in dungeons?

I play Gw1 as well as GW2. I really like using Heros in dungeons. They don’t argue with me, or kick me out, or go on without me without rezzing. I can take my time, or whatever i like. This ends the problem talked about here in part. Yes, i do wish the dungeons were made so you actually had to run them, but I don’t think Arenanet is going to rework all of their dungeon. Maybe we will get some new ones in the expansion. I do wish when they came out with GW2 they would have left in all the good things about GW1. Im in a small guild. Not everyone wants to dungeon, although I prefer to go with my guild when i do. Sometime you get nice folks to dungeon with, sometimes its unbearable. I still like my Heros and wish i could import them. NPCs in Gw2 don’t do any damage or really help much. When your doing some storyline alone, you need a little help occasionally. My daughters comment: In gw2, npcs just stand around and say, “The spirits of the wild welcome you.”

The real improvements dungeons (and Fractals) need are exploit fixes. It’s basically impossible to pug half the content without your team expecting you to exploit.

Hell, I even see LFG posts like “AC 1, 3+2” nowadays. Crazy.

timmyf.1490:

The real improvements dungeons (and Fractals) need are exploit fixes. It’s basically impossible to pug half the content without your team expecting you to exploit.

Hell, I even see LFG posts like “AC 1, 3+2” nowadays. Crazy.

I agree. ANet is afraid of the backlash though. GW2 is full of dirty cheaters.