Guild Wars 2

I’d just like to say that HoT was a £30 expansion for the game, most DLC of this price point would add the following:
- more than 5 hours of content
- added features that aren’t walled behind 20+ hours of grind

HoT added neither. The story is a lost cause, and would take far too much work and money for ANet to fix, but the hero points would be one tweak of one number to fix the problem and stop gating the content behind unreasonably hard to solo content, which no-one who has done it before will join a group to complete, because there’s no incentive to. This would be solved if one of the following were true:
- there would be enough hero points in central Tyria to complete the elite specialization for a character
or
-the hero challenges in Heart of Thorns areas would be possible for most players to do without a group

EDIT: Grammar

It was already lowered once. I unlocked them 10 times with very minimal issues.

Here is a guide for soloable HPs. Combined with HPs from central Tyria, these should be more than enough to unlock your elite spec. Additionally, as far as I’ve seen people often help others with HPs, as long as they’re not too hard to reach.

The current cost is fine IMO.

dekou.6012:

Here is a guide for soloable HPs. Combined with HPs from central Tyria, these should be more than enough to unlock your elite spec. Additionally, as far as I’ve seen people often help others with HPs, as long as they’re not too hard to reach.

The current cost is fine IMO.

honestly as a returning wvw player, the fact that i have to do anything to unlock something i just payed 50$ for is incredibly frustrating

last time i played the game, you didnt have to jump through hoops to unlock basic class functions, and now you have to grind and play around on some screwy pve map with jump pads and gliders

i’ll take a look at this link tho, maybe itll make the process suck less. i appreciate that people are trying to be helpful but holy geez i dont feel like doing any of this nonsense

Brienson.7319:

dekou.6012:

Here is a guide for soloable HPs. Combined with HPs from central Tyria, these should be more than enough to unlock your elite spec. Additionally, as far as I’ve seen people often help others with HPs, as long as they’re not too hard to reach.

The current cost is fine IMO.

honestly as a returning wvw player, the fact that i have to do anything to unlock something i just payed 50$ for is incredibly frustrating

last time i played the game, you didnt have to jump through hoops to unlock basic class functions, and now you have to grind and play around on some screwy pve map with jump pads and gliders

i’ll take a look at this link tho, maybe itll make the process suck less. i appreciate that people are trying to be helpful but holy geez i dont feel like doing any of this nonsense

Honestly all expansions have something in them that you have to do something to unlock. It’s not new. Besides, you do not have to jump through any hoops to unlock the basic class functions. Once you hit 80 you have all your basic class functions unlocked. Elite specs are not basic class functions. That’s why they are called Elite Specializations. What they actually do is change you basic class functions. Plus with you only needing 250 HPs to unlock, a majority of which you can do in core tyria to the point you only need like 5 or 6 HoT HPs, the cost is pretty minimum for a class progression.

If you’re a WvW player, you can unlock the elite specs via scrolls of heroics.

Brienson.7319:

honestly as a returning wvw player

Or as a returning WvW player, you could play WvW and trade in 10 Proofs of Heroic to unlock a HoT Hero Point…

Zorbakpants.5792:

most DLC of this price point would add the following:
- more than 5 hours of content
- added features that aren’t walled behind 20+ hours of grind

HoT added neither.

That must be the best 5 hours of content in the world, cause I’m still playing that 5 hours of content since HOT came out and enjoying it.

Zorbakpants.5792:

- there would be enough hero points in central Tyria to complete the elite specialization for a character
or
-the hero challenges in Heart of Thorns areas would be possible for most players to do without a group

True, there aren’t enough HPs in Tyria for a full elite specialization unlock, but if you did every single one, you’d have ~200, which means you only need ~5 HoT HPs to complete it. If you look at the guide linked above (or the Dulfy guides), you’d easily find 5 solo-able ones.

Honestly though, after getting the elite specs for 7 different characters using several methods (HoT HPs, Tyrian HPs and WvW proofs), I personally find the HoT HPs the quickest, especially after looking at Dulfy’s guides and getting familiar with the maps. You’ll sometimes run into a HPs train (AB seems most frequent) which speeds up your progress immensely. My most recent toon started with 0 Tyrian HPs and only took 2-3 days of moderate play.

Zorbakpants.5792:

I’d just like to say that HoT was a £30 expansion for the game, most DLC of this price point would add the following:
- more than 5 hours of content
- added features that aren’t walled behind 20+ hours of grind

HoT added neither. The story is a lost cause, and would take far too much work and money for ANet to fix, but the hero points would be one tweak of one number to fix the problem and stop gating the content behind unreasonably hard to solo content, which no-one who has done it before will join a group to complete, because there’s no incentive to. This would be solved if one of the following were true:
- there would be enough hero points in central Tyria to complete the elite specialization for a character
or
-the hero challenges in Heart of Thorns areas would be possible for most players to do without a group

EDIT: Grammar

There is nothing wrong with the amount of HP needed to fully unlock an elite spec. If you do all of the HP in central Tyria then you only need a handful of HoT hero points to finish the spec anyway, less than 5 iirc. And most of them are easy to solo, especially after the difficulty was nerfed. I’m not even that great of a player and I’ve only run into 2 so far that have given me real trouble to get through alone.

And I have no idea how you finished all the HoT content in 5 hours. Each meta event takes at least an hour, and in each map there are multiple different parts of the meta that you can do, which necessitates doing each meta multiple times to see all the content.

Right now, I’m wondering how it is you managed to get map completion on all maps with all the pre-requisite masteries and all of the collections within 5 hours of stumbling into the jungle.

The stuff that is “walled” is supposed to represent post-maximum level character progression. Much like how you couldn’t realistically play the high level maps without getting that level first, you aren’t supposed to complete the maps without getting the masteries. The vast majority of the map can be accessed with a few points in gliding and jumping mushroom, with only a few smaller bits inaccessible with the later masteries.

The hero points also provide incentives for repetition. They give out daily rewards for completion, which is why you’ll frequently see squads of players go from map to map cycling through the hero points.

Brienson.7319:

honestly as a returning wvw player, the fact that i have to do anything to unlock something i just payed 50$ for is incredibly frustrating

When you first bought GW2 was your character already max level with all skills, and top tier gear, or did you need to do stuff to get to level 80, to access all skills, and to acquire top tier gear?

Elite spec unlock is fine I had little issue finishing kitten near most of it before they nerfed the required hero points ((And I will agree that was a bit too high at the time)) Now it’s fine.

Zorbakpants.5792:

- there would be enough hero points in central Tyria to complete the elite specialization for a character

Before HoT dropped, I’d had three characters with map completion in the launch maps. Once the number of points needed dropped from 400 to 250, they needed either 4 or 5 challenges in Heart of Maguma (1 had done more challenges in Dry Top and Silverwastes than the other two. There are 11 in Verdant Brink alone, 8 of which can be gotten solo, with only basic gliding.

I’m not trying to tell you HoT was worth the money you spent. That’s your decision. However, if you were willing to get 80% of the points from core, then getting 5 challenges in VB is not much at all. I can do it in about 15 minutes.

Elite specs cost need to be increased! It was to high at start, but they lowered it to much. They need to adjust it and make it somewhere between the initial and the current cost.

1. This is an mmo, nothing is done “over night” and that’s good. Even so everything in this game is at a casual level which is also good.
2. Masteries are ACCOUNT BOUND. Once unlocked all your characters have them. Having said that, the cost for them is good and should not change. If they were just character bound then i could see why you would want them to decrease in requirements.

Zorbakpants.5792:

the hero challenges in Heart of Thorns areas would be possible for most players to do without a group

But they are. Ignoring the fact that I’d like more group content, not less and that you are on maps full of people with the same goals who you could just team up with to achieve those goals.. they are mostly soloable.

Zorbakpants.5792:

unreasonably hard to solo content, which no-one who has done it before will join a group to complete, because there’s no incentive to.

So stop soloing? What are you stuck on? Have you tried : watching a video (dulfy or youtube), getting a better build (metabattle), asking in chat (map/guild, LFG).
Nobody will help you because there’s no incentive? You must have landed on a really horrible map as I see players helping players all the time. Also I have many alts, they haven’t all done it before and would be happy to have help with things whilst also helping out another player.

Zorbakpants.5792:

I’d just like to say that HoT was a £30 expansion for the game, most DLC of this price point would add the following:
- more than 5 hours of content
- added features that aren’t walled behind 20+ hours of grind

HoT added neither. The story is a lost cause, and would take far too much work and money for ANet to fix, but the hero points would be one tweak of one number to fix the problem and stop gating the content behind unreasonably hard to solo content, which no-one who has done it before will join a group to complete, because there’s no incentive to. This would be solved if one of the following were true:
- there would be enough hero points in central Tyria to complete the elite specialization for a character
or
-the hero challenges in Heart of Thorns areas would be possible for most players to do without a group

EDIT: Grammar

Let me disect your post a little bit:

5 hours of content
If you don’t play any HoT content for less than 5 hours you are definetly do something wrong.
Story quests (even with bugs), do take half an hour each if you really want to enjoy it and don’t rush through it for the shinies.
Then there is the map meta which roughly takes half an hour and up to two if you are aiming for dragon stand.
Then we got raids.
Several new meta archievments, hidden stuff, etc…

I think you are a bit wrong on the 5 hour part.
Just because you dabbled in everyting doesn’t mean you have experienced everything.

Features behind a wall
So you want everything without any effort?
So you want to be 80 and have all the skills from the beginning and don’t do a task to progress towards a better or stronger character?
You want a completly finished character?
So you want to play PvP? because there you get exactly that.

Which features do you talk about? Masteries? Elite Specs?

I don’t know. Reaching lvl 80 for the first time was also very hard and could be described as gating, but now I breeze through everything and have 9 characters at lvl 80.

If you really look at the things required it isn’t that hard, just migh need you to get a bit out of your comfort zone.

Facepalm, its an RPG your suppose to have a sense of progression, this isn’t a phone game with instant gratification and an I win button, this isn’t rude or anything it just seems like sone people actually expect this from games that are very far from that design, games are not meant to cater to just one person and it won’t change just because some people aren’t use to or don’t like the rpg mechanics in an mmorpg.

dekou.6012:

If you’re a WvW player, you can unlock the elite specs via scrolls of heroics.

This.

If you’re salty about having to do PvE for it then… like… don’t.

I don’t see how exaggerations or a complete misunderstanding of MMO expansions have anything to do with the cost of Elite specs, yet that’s the rational I’m reading in the OP. If I’m scratching my head, Anet’s beating theirs off the wall.

The whole mastery point/hero point system defeats the “play as you want” aspect of the game that was so strong at launch. Experience and skill points were fine. You could choose to do the content you wanted to do. Nothing was handed to you in that system. It just didn’t force you to do the same content over and over with each character you make.

HoT just furthered the monstrosity that was the NPE.

I would have much preferred that elite specializations were simply part of the expansion. Grinding hp’s out in a platformer zone is not fun. Another possibility would be rewarding them for simply playing the game rather than playing the game a certain way in a certain zone.

Raine.1394:

I would have much preferred that elite specializations were simply part of the expansion. Grinding hp’s out in a platformer zone is not fun. Another possibility would be rewarding them for simply playing the game rather than playing the game a certain way in a certain zone.

It would be great that the full elite spec would be unlocked as soon as you finish the main HoT story. Like some reward without pushing people to grind points. Although I would rather see then fully unlocked already when you hit 80. Curious when they introduce new elite specs. Will we need to farm points again? When so I assume they will only introduce then with the new expansion. Nevertheless, I still think that the elite specs ruined the last bit of diversity the game had (which was already none xompared ti gw1 unfortunately)

Grind and farm points? What are you on about.. you literally walk up to most of them, commune and get 10 points for doing so.

Platformer? Again what are you talking about. Have you a) been in the hot maps or b) ever played a platformer?

As for “play as you want” – claiming experience and skill points is fine isn’t play as you want unless HoT also is. If you wanted 10 level 80s you were absolutely doing the same content over and over again.

Zorbakpants.5792:

- more than 5 hours of content

So you’re implying that HoT has less than 5 hours of content. That tells me you’re probably a “rush the story and quit” kind of a player.

Whilst I am the first in the queue to tell ArenaNet that HoT lacks side story I can also see that there is enough “content” there to fill far more than 5 hours. If collections, achievements and skins are not something you care about…that’s cool, but maybe learn from that and assume that the story for the next expansion wont necessarily be that long either.

No, with “play as you want” you are not doing the same content over and over. For example, with one character I could level doing map completion, another character I could just hop around doing events to level up, with another character I could focus more on dungeons, etc….. With HoT you have to do the same stale hero points over and over, you are forced into specific content for mastery points as well

In the old system you could get skill points by leveling you didn’t ever have to do a skill point challenge if you didn’t want to.

Dashingsteel.3410:

In the old system you could get skill points by leveling you didn’t ever have to do a skill point challenge if you didn’t want to.

I do understand your tenuous point, but… saying someone might not like having to do skill points so they shouldn’t have to is like saying that they don’t like having to eat food so they should just get all their nutrients intravenously? “Look mom, I’m living my own way!”

The only potential truth is that it’s likely “easiest” to complete the same hero points on each alt to unlock the elite specialisations, and therefore players feel like they have less options because they don’t want to wait around for help to complete the harder points.

I bet Colin really regretted ever uttering the words “play your own way” given how much it’s been twisted and contorted to mean whatever players want it to mean over the years.

Well, “play your own way” means to me that you can choose to do whatever content you like an still progress. This philosophy was present at gw2 launch. I think the “twisting” might be coming from your side.

It’s also naive to believe that the content of a 2011 manifesto video would remain their current stance in perpetuity! ArenaNet have revamped this game so many times since release, maybe too many times. As the developer they are quite within their rights to change the scope of any aspect of the game, whether it breaks their “play your way” promise or not.

Ask yourself this. If ArenaNet launched GW2 in the state that the core game is today, without the ability to go on earning endless skillpoints through levelling, if you never even knew it was an option, would you still be making the argument?

I believe they started gw2 out with a winning philosophy and have lost their way in subsequent years. The worst update ever to me was the New Player Experience update in spring of 2014. I don’t know who told them that would be a good thing. Probably the same people who told them that HoT was the right direction to go for the game.

Zorbakpants.5792:

but the hero points would be one tweak of one number to fix the problem and stop gating the content behind unreasonably hard to solo content, which no-one who has done it before will join a group to complete, because there’s no incentive to.

geeeeezzzzz
You must be lazy gamer !!
I’ve done all elite spec with all classes , even with those I am not really good , like an Engineer.
And nope , I am not hardcore player.
It took me 2-3 hours of each class. Never had problem with any Hero point , just asked in map chat and there were always people ready to join me.
Or i joined a squad from LFG and they were doing all map , so with some classes i have 1 or 2 whole map achi done.
Honestly , I don’t understand lazy gamers like you , what is the fun to log in to the game and have everything handed to you on a plate?

Dashingsteel.3410:

The whole mastery point/hero point system defeats the “play as you want” aspect of the game that was so strong at launch. Experience and skill points were fine. You could choose to do the content you wanted to do. Nothing was handed to you in that system. It just didn’t force you to do the same content over and over with each character you make.

HoT just furthered the monstrosity that was the NPE.

That’s simply your misinterpreted version of what ‘play as you want’ actually means. You don’t define that, Anet does.

Well, it sure is funny that for the first year and a half they had the game devised so that you really could play as you want……. I think they started listening to the wrong people…. That got us the NPE and HoT.

Try checking LFG. There is usually a full squad of people, or pretty close doing a Hero Point run in one of the HoT maps.

Let me get this straight.

Some people (a small but loud minority) are crying that end-game unlocks are ‘too hard’? that the money they spent is too high cost for too little reward (P2P vs F2P)? that 20hrs grinding content is too long (multi-year expansion cycles)? Would you perhaps consider doing a bit of research before investing in a product? or using the wiki? or asking a guild-mate? or asking the zone channel? asking with diplomacy in the forums? or trying… I’m gunna say it… Google!

With so very very much online player-driven content out there I see zero excuse to cry about the less than stellar quality of your GW2 life.

If the clearly identifiable Group Content can’t be soloed (read: Group, not Li’l Ol’ Me) then research and attend the solo stuff and save the group content for guild activities or check local channel or press Y and find or make a Party or Squad. If you build it they will come. Anet GIVES you content, challenging content, for friggin’ free, and you want it fed to you with a silver spoon, too?! Here’s a tissue for your issue.

It pleases me that Anet has made content and unlocks and end-game progression in an increasingly difficult manner. I am pleased to see a developer actually publish some content that demands TEAM EFFORT to achieve mutually held goals.

Is Guild Wars 2 perfect?
No. But kitten near.

Is GW2 king of the hill compared to all. other. MMOs?
Hell yeah.

I’ve been playing MMORPGs since 2004.
I know of which I speak.

Back in my day we hunted for hours to eat a 30 minute meal… every day. If it’s cost versus reward that concerns you then consider a P2P game and realize quickly just how good you have it here.

However, seeing as you have full right to engage in your freedom to choose what you want to do, you could… perhaps… maybe… I dunno… go find an easier more Hello Kitty Online game that would satiate your bourgeois attitude and utter lack of intestinal fortitude (read: maturity).

Honestly, who justifies a mouse/keyboard/headset-thorwing tantrum at the loss of a virtual activity? and then blames the content? or the developer? Who chose to engage in that content? YOU did. Suck it up, Buttercup!

Really, what else ya gunna do for a hobby that won’t cost more in money, time, energy, labour, and frustration that guarantees REAL risk of REAL loss? Quit whinin’ that you actually have to reach your arm up and out to grab an apple off the tree. Careful… don’t strain yourself… ah, kitten , you strained your brain muscle. I’ll call the Wahmbulance for you.

I hear LoL is looking for more fodder… I mean players.

smh

Dashingsteel.3410:

Well, it sure is funny that for the first year and a half they had the game devised so that you really could play as you want……. I think they started listening to the wrong people…. That got us the NPE and HoT.

Your whole premise is based on ‘them’ listening to ‘people’. This is not the case; Anet decided what needs to happen in the game. No one asked for NPE and HoT is just a recognition that Core GW2 is pretty lame by normal MMO engagement standards.

That’s funny. I believe the core game is much more loved than HoT. I believe Anet is presently scrambling to put out another expansion because the lameness of HoT.

Belief isn’t enough to make things true, including you believing your interpretation of play how you want is relevant.

They threw the manifesto out the window years ago so there’s that

Well, Obtena, you think I am wrong and I think you are wrong so it appears we are at a stalemate, and since you don’t corner the market on what is the truth either I guess we will have to leave it at that.

Let me be clear because there isn’t a stalemate; You are being disingenuous and assuming. I don’t just think that, I can tell it from the tone of your posts (almost all of them judging by your history and how you interact with Anet staffers) and what you believe to be true.

You’re right, i don’t corner that market, but I don’t make nonsense statements about Anet getting the ‘play how you want’ ideal wrong … because they define what it means. There is a theme in your posts. You seem to give too much credit to players dictating what ‘is’ with the game, when really, Anet can turn around and decide black is white and you got nothing to do about it except deal with it or walk. THAT bothers you, so the next best thing is acting out. This isn’t Burger King and you don’t get it your way. That’s not just a belief, that’s the way it is.

Obtena, just because you believe that doesn’t make it true.

I completely understand where OP is coming from.

If you don’t like PvE then it is plain and simply a chore to complete. It’s not about ‘hard’ content – it’s about spending time doing something that makes you feel ill (PvE).

Proof of Heroics are fine but if you have 9 characters or more it would be nice to get something from sPvP too.

I do some easy to reach Verdant Brink Hero Points and a couple in Auric Basin but ppl don’t seem to understand how nauseating PvE is for some players. Yes it might take 2-3 hours but that is 2-3 hours of un-fun time I’d rather spend washing the dishes or ironing!

Give us some choice. Award Proof of Heroics in sPvP AND WvW.

Byron.1902:

I completely understand where OP is coming from.

If you don’t like PvE then it is plain and simply a chore to complete. It’s not about ‘hard’ content – it’s about spending time doing something that makes you feel ill (PvE).

Proof of Heroics are fine but if you have 9 characters or more it would be nice to get something from sPvP too.

I do some easy to reach Verdant Brink Hero Points and a couple in Auric Basin but ppl don’t seem to understand how nauseating PvE is for some players. Yes it might take 2-3 hours but that is 2-3 hours of un-fun time I’d rather spend washing the dishes or ironing!

Give us some choice. Award Proof of Heroics in sPvP AND WvW.

If all you do is spvp why would you need proof of heroics? WvW already gives them so that’s covered and they are acct bound so…..

I love how unlocking elite specs works and really enjoy the challenge HoT hero points brought.

Hodori.1068:

Try checking LFG. There is usually a full squad of people, or pretty close doing a Hero Point run in one of the HoT maps.

I’ve no idea what region you’re in or what time you play. In NA, when I play, there is rarely an HP run. Sometimes, even in prime time, there is no taxi for meta maps, either.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Hodori.1068:

Try checking LFG. There is usually a full squad of people, or pretty close doing a Hero Point run in one of the HoT maps.

I’ve no idea what region you’re in or what time you play. In NA, when I play, there is rarely an HP run. Sometimes, even in prime time, there is no taxi for meta maps, either.

Do you have a ranged class? Most HC’s can be done solo or duo. Ever one of the first 2 maps can be at any rate. You could always start one your self, tag up and say in map chat you are doing a HC run. Then off you go. I got my Necro max by grabbing all the HC in VB and AB with the rest from the core game.took about 1 and a half hours.

BrotherBelial.3094:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Hodori.1068:

Try checking LFG. There is usually a full squad of people, or pretty close doing a Hero Point run in one of the HoT maps.

I’ve no idea what region you’re in or what time you play. In NA, when I play, there is rarely an HP run. Sometimes, even in prime time, there is no taxi for meta maps, either.

Do you have a ranged class? Most HC’s can be done solo or duo. Ever one of the first 2 maps can be at any rate. You could always start one your self, tag up and say in map chat you are doing a HC run. Then off you go. I got my Necro max by grabbing all the HC in VB and AB with the rest from the core game.took about 1 and a half hours.

I don’t have a problem with HC’s myself. I was pointing out that claims about there usually being an HC run going just aren’t necessarily so. As to starting one’s own, there are a lot of people who don’t know the maps all that well, and who would thus be reluctant to take on such a responsibility.

Man guys, I dont know I think the cost is way to high for skills in this rpg im playing right now, is it to much to ask to max my character in 2 hours? I only paid 60 bucks for it plus dlc, geesh its not like ill get bored with it having all my skills nearly instant in an rpg then actually progressing towards it with great pacing through the content itself.

Like seriously rpgs are suppose to only last an hour or two dont you know this?