Guild Wars 2

Black Box.9312:

A HoT hero challenge is worth 10 points. A base-game hero challenge is worth 1 point. For anyone who hasn’t already completed the existing challenges, they serve absolutely no purpose. Why waste your time doing things for 1 point, when you can just go to the jungle and do things for 10 points? “Devaluing” doesn’t get any more black and white than that.

Prior to the elite specs those extra hero points served no purpose whatsoever. So in a way it has added value. Prior to that they were really only useful for getting legendaries. And even then only because you needed the item for 100% map completion, given you could earn the skills points by doing anything that gave you XP.

Akaikos.9613:

So OP you just want the most featured thing on the new expansion already unlocked on day 1? Did you realize we are not getting more levels and instead a new specialization?

the way i read it was masteries raids guild halls and new WvW was the “end game”

i want to GET to that end game as my new spec.

i DIDNT want to do all of HoT open world content as an old spec, i wanted to do HoT content WITH HoT content , meaning , as scrapper or reaper.

if i read it wrong than shame on me but as far as i know we didnt know it would cost this much untul 3 or 4 days before launch.

that leaves 3 or 4 days to run around the ENTIRE world finding skill points. and to those that say it “isnt world complete” youre right technically its not.
but i finished leveling without tomes at 37% world complete. that leaves 63% of WPs and maps undiscovered i have to run through to FIND the skill points.

in 3 days.

to get a JUMP on elite spec, not even to unlock it fully.

i stand by my OP , im not mad, ive just lost the hype.

The problem is this did not need to happen, they (Anet) are trying to force players to play content, people don’t respond well to force. You can say they gave us options such as WvW ranks but those options are laughable and unrealistic so it only really the illusion of an option.

Stop trying to force us to play the content, most of us will go out and explore the new stuff at our leisure, I don’t see the need to try and ram it down our throats.

As I said in the other post, This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2, instead Anet has turned it into a witch hunt.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Agemnon.4608:

Farming, time, and effort aren’t the problem, ludicrous amounts of it are.

I see this phrase popping up over and over. Could someone define for me very specifically what constitutes ludicrous? Cause I’ve been reading the same things you have and I have not seen anything that I could define as ludicrous. Some of this will take a fair amount of time, which is GOOD, because more time spent unlocking things means more time with the content, and not burning through it all in a week and then wondering why there isn’t more to do.

Even with that, I’m pretty certain some people will accomplish 100% Elites on day one. They may not accomplish anything else, but they’ll have that.

The only people this seems to hurt are the people with way too many characters, of which they need all to have elites, for some reason. I’ve got 13 characters, about, one doesn’t exist yet, but will in a couple days. Of those, though, I only plan on getting elites for 4, one of which can definitely wait until much later to go through the process.

If for some reason I absolutely needed all 13 characters to be elites, that would be a problem, but that would still only be a problem for me for having such an unruly number of characters. It’s not ANet’s fault nor problem. If it takes x amount of time to get the thing, then it should absolutely take x times the number of characters you want to up to elites in order to do that. That’s completely reasonable.

WRONG. Veteran GW2 players who have spent most of their time on a main who played the game 3-6 months after lunch, left and came back in the past six months are also getting burned on this. Many of us used our hero points for crafting purposes back in 2012-2013. While we were gone ArenaNet changed a lot of things. We came back to find we have few hero points (still) but not only that some of our core specializations that we unlocked are now locked again and have to be re-opened with hero points. With hero challenges tapped out our only option is to take our character into HoT and work though 1/2 the game of HoT to be able to obtain the level of mastery needed to even get to those first 20 hero challenges and unlock the full trait line.

The answer is to roll a Revenant and enjoy it’s new play mechanics or to just stick with the PvP side of the game and pretend the new PvE maps don’t exist. Earn the hero points in WvW over time and once you have them all continue on with the HoT story from the beginning so you can experience it as your Elite Spec. This is how you compensate for their incredibly poor, unforgivable design which shows no respect to vertran players or to the casual players who have been using the gem store as a way to compensate for not being able to play as much as some of the hardcore crowd, but still enjoy the game on the same level. It’s very sad that they are doing away with that aspect of the game. There is no way to advance your hero points through gem store purchase so they are forcing all of us to grind content. This is a huge paradigm shift as given enough gold even the casual player committing only 8 hours a week could still buy a legendary (if they were going to force grind for anything they should have done it for legendariles not something that is a core play mechanic, see how kitten backwards this is?). The difference is someone who can only commit maybe 8 hours a week to play will end up spending months to be able to enjoy their Elite Spec in PvE. Whoever at ArenaNet made this decision made a very, very poor decisions.

You didn’t lose Hero points, that’s physically impossible. You have as many and no more as anyone else who did the content. Hero Points are a finite commodity.

Where are you inventing this time from? In just two hours I unlocked half the HPs on the main continent, including all the ones in Orr. It isn’t going to take that nearly as long as people seem to be attributing to this process.

gavyne.6847:

All the arguments have been heard and rehashed for many pages now. He said, she said, I disagree, you disagree, blah blah blah. There are clearly 2 sides of the camp and nobody’s going to change anybody’s minds here. People have their reasons for liking this design, just as people have very good reasons for not liking this design. Time for Anet to step in and comment again in my opinion.

Actually people have reasons for not minding the design, and people have questionable reasons for disliking, and there is no reason for ANet to step in because in two days it will be too late, and in one month everyone will forget all about it just like always happens. Usually because they’ve realized all their complaints were unfounded.

Random.4691:

The problem is this did not need to happen, they (Anet) are trying to force players to play content, people don’t respond well to force. You can say they gave us options such as WvW ranks but those options are laughable and unrealistic so it only really the illusion of an option.

Stop trying to force us to play the content, most of us will go out and explore the new stuff at our leisure, I don’t see the need to try and ram it down our throats.

As I said in the other post, This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2, instead Anet has turned it into a witch hunt.

thing as like previous posters have said its effectively having us skip content.
whoever said this nailed it. Day 1 there will be skill point trains going through maguuma skipping EVERYTHING in a zerg to get the skill points. Instead of going through it at the normal or relaxed pace, it will be rushed, half of it will be skipped.

Black Box.9312:

PopeUrban.2578:

Black Box.9312:

PopeUrban.2578:

They have been posting this stuff in blogs for months dude.

They’re not devaluing existing content. They’re setting a precedent for elite specs as relevant to content

An elite spec cost 400 hero points. This is a hard number we know now. This is an inherant part of that system. HoT challenges grant 10 because they wanted to ensure people could actually play nothing but HoT to gain them.

Of course it isn’t designed to allow you to entirely skip progression in new maps. That would be ridiculous. People would literally be saying “why would I waste my time doing hero challenges that don’t give me anything?” and the thread would be just as long and angst ridden as this one.

In stead they built a system in which mastering all of the optional core points means you can skip half of the new ones. Moving forward, you’ll likely see that system continue. You will never have enough hero points to instantly unlock an elite spec, but you’ll always have options in terms of how much of the content you want to do.

Like core world completion because it’s easy and there are more zones? Fantastic! That means you can skip half of the HoT challenges.

Don’t like the first elite spec? FANTASTIC save your ero points for the next one.

Making a comparison between the value of core content and HoT in terms of character progression is simply flawed thinking. Core content is intentionally unchanged, it is intentionally easier, and it is intentionally paced for leveling first and world completion as a secondary goal. HoT, and all content going forward is specifically built, progression wise, around the elite spec system.

Core specs aren’t considered optional. They’re considered “mastering your core class”

Elite specs, however, are optional and exclusive to one another

If you’re mad about devaluing old content, why aren’t you mad that taking an elite spec makes you drop a trait line? Why aren’t you mad every time they release another stat set for gear? Will you be mad when the next elite spec releases and you have to choose between them?

Having ten point challenges do nothing to devalue old content. You need to be 80 to get in to the jungle. If you’re 80, you have your core specs completed. now you can choose to do a lot of simple challenges, a lesser number of harder ones, or a mixture between the two. The entire system is designed so that the core content retains value by making sure all those extra hero point actually do something for you character besides being traded to miyani.

A HoT hero challenge is worth 10 points. A base-game hero challenge is worth 1 point. For anyone who hasn’t already completed the existing challenges, they serve absolutely no purpose. Why waste your time doing things for 1 point, when you can just go to the jungle and do things for 10 points? “Devaluing” doesn’t get any more black and white than that.

Again, because those points never existed primarily for progression purposes in the first place

Again

Core hero challenges are explicitly designed as optional objectives,supplemental to leveling

HoT hero challenges are explicitly designed as required objectives, to completely replace skill gains through leveling with skill gains through challenge completion

They have two different values for exactly this reason.

They’re not devalued, they were already of less value in the first place

Please explain, given your above argument, how exactly this is different from a gear treadmill dungeon series that requires a set of gear from one dungeon in order to complete the next, and is purely sequenced from a “first” dungeon to a “last” dungeon.

Your question doesn’t make any sense. You need the hero points to use the knew specialization, NOT to do any content within the new zones.

A gear treadmill is designed specifically to be able to complete content, only.

Random.4691:

The problem is this did not need to happen, they (Anet) are trying to force players to play content, people don’t respond well to force. You can say they gave us options such as WvW ranks but those options are laughable and unrealistic so it only really the illusion of an option.

Stop trying to force us to play the content, most of us will go out and explore the new stuff at our leisure, I don’t see the need to try and ram it down our throats.

As I said in the other post, This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2, instead Anet has turned it into a witch hunt.

witch hunt
a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views.

ANet is directing a campaign against people holding unorthodox or unpopular views? Or is ANet simply giving ways to attain an elite spec that is unpopular?

Black Box.9312:

PopeUrban.2578:

Black Box.9312:

PopeUrban.2578:

They have been posting this stuff in blogs for months dude.

They’re not devaluing existing content. They’re setting a precedent for elite specs as relevant to content

An elite spec cost 400 hero points. This is a hard number we know now. This is an inherant part of that system. HoT challenges grant 10 because they wanted to ensure people could actually play nothing but HoT to gain them.

Of course it isn’t designed to allow you to entirely skip progression in new maps. That would be ridiculous. People would literally be saying “why would I waste my time doing hero challenges that don’t give me anything?” and the thread would be just as long and angst ridden as this one.

In stead they built a system in which mastering all of the optional core points means you can skip half of the new ones. Moving forward, you’ll likely see that system continue. You will never have enough hero points to instantly unlock an elite spec, but you’ll always have options in terms of how much of the content you want to do.

Like core world completion because it’s easy and there are more zones? Fantastic! That means you can skip half of the HoT challenges.

Don’t like the first elite spec? FANTASTIC save your ero points for the next one.

Making a comparison between the value of core content and HoT in terms of character progression is simply flawed thinking. Core content is intentionally unchanged, it is intentionally easier, and it is intentionally paced for leveling first and world completion as a secondary goal. HoT, and all content going forward is specifically built, progression wise, around the elite spec system.

Core specs aren’t considered optional. They’re considered “mastering your core class”

Elite specs, however, are optional and exclusive to one another

If you’re mad about devaluing old content, why aren’t you mad that taking an elite spec makes you drop a trait line? Why aren’t you mad every time they release another stat set for gear? Will you be mad when the next elite spec releases and you have to choose between them?

Having ten point challenges do nothing to devalue old content. You need to be 80 to get in to the jungle. If you’re 80, you have your core specs completed. now you can choose to do a lot of simple challenges, a lesser number of harder ones, or a mixture between the two. The entire system is designed so that the core content retains value by making sure all those extra hero point actually do something for you character besides being traded to miyani.

A HoT hero challenge is worth 10 points. A base-game hero challenge is worth 1 point. For anyone who hasn’t already completed the existing challenges, they serve absolutely no purpose. Why waste your time doing things for 1 point, when you can just go to the jungle and do things for 10 points? “Devaluing” doesn’t get any more black and white than that.

Again, because those points never existed primarily for progression purposes in the first place

Again

Core hero challenges are explicitly designed as optional objectives,supplemental to leveling

HoT hero challenges are explicitly designed as required objectives, to completely replace skill gains through leveling with skill gains through challenge completion

They have two different values for exactly this reason.

They’re not devalued, they were already of less value in the first place

Please explain, given your above argument, how exactly this is different from a gear treadmill dungeon series that requires a set of gear from one dungeon in order to complete the next, and is purely sequenced from a “first” dungeon to a “last” dungeon.

Because elite specs are optional you do not need to unlock the current elite spec to gain the ability to unlock the next one, or the one after that, and so on.

And further, the elite specs themselves are not purely vertical progression. They are optional horizontal progression. They add options at the expense of taking core weapons trait lines, and utilities. They’re not simply raw buffs that pile on top of the three core specs you’d already have on your character.

You won’t have four specs in the next release, and five after that, creating a system of perpetual upward advancement where you have to do A to be powerful enough to access B.

In stead, you have to do core to unlock core, and from there you choose to persue an elite spec, or stick with a core build. Going forward you choose which elite spec you want to persue, and as the system expands you have an ever broadening range of options for how to actually unlock those specs, since unlike masteries, hero points are not regional, but global systems.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

There is more then enough content (if they get their crap together and release it .. cough raids cough) to keep everyone busy without time gating the Elites. We have Raids, Guild Halls, New Maps (for all modes), Fractals, Legendaries, Adventures, Events, Masteries, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I don’t see how time gating the Elites is productive, how does it affect anyone if you do it as a Necro or a Reaper for example. If they wanted to do something for elites they should have done a quest line of some sort.

The bottom line is, it hurts nothing to have elites playable, the rest of the content is still the same regardless of which class/spec you are using. There is simply no need and all this has done is divide the community and ticked off a lot of players. This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2 and instead they have managed to turn it into a witch hunt.

Elites aren’t time gated. If you can do the content in one day then you can have elites in one day. Time gating means that you cannot physically complete the content in less than a predefined period because you can only earn specific amounts toward it ever x period of time.

The need is, that’s how they wanted to do it. I would have preferred a different system too. Not the one everyone else seems to want, but still different than we got. But this is what we got, and there isn’t actually anything wrong with it, it’s just one way to do it. It isn’t wrong, it’s just one way.

This should be an exciting time, and for most of us it is. But ANet didn’t start a witch hunt. That “privilege” lays soully on the player base who deluded themselves into thinking they could just have anything without putting any effort into it. That has never been ANet’s style.

Actually that is your definition of time gating, imo time gating is anything that requires you to put in an excessive/lengthy amount of time. If you would have read my full post or any of my other posts for that matter you would have noted I’m not asking it to be handed to us with no strings attached. I would be ok with a small story line quest to unlock it, I would be ok with a realistic amount of HP, I’m not ok with either being forced into the jungle for the quickest method which still won’t be quick, I’m not ok with that slap in the face of an option for WvW players that is completely unrealistic.

Once again, just because Anet slapped the word Elite onto it doesn’t make it Elite. They themselves have stated multiple times that it is not meant to over shadow the core specs it is simply an optional addition.

No, that’s what a time gate is. You can make up whatever definition you want for whatever you want, but that doesn’t make it so.

Again that is your definition of time gate, feel free to look it up and see the NUMEROUS different definitions. I’ll help you out, most of it has to do with Electronics or Time/Space. Saying I can make up whatever definition I want is pretty hypocritical.

Menadena.7482:

fireflyry.7023:

I’m on the fence with this one but Anet does itself no favors with it’s BWE’s and using this as a selling point for pre-purchase. To me this is the catalyst of much of this complaint and I’m still of the opinion beta testing should be done by beta testers, not used as a sales pitch to customers.

I’ve played a fair few games where at the starting level your a fully kitted out uber-beast of death slaying everything in sight in some huge awe-inspiring battle with all skills unlocked and all weapons blazing full bore. Wahoo this game is friggin amazing!!!

end flashback/dream sequence

You wake up at level one naked holding a wet noodle realizing it will be a LONG time before you feel that way again.

From what I can garner this is exactly what has happened here with giving players everything for nothing to play with, then taking it away. Sure might work ok in an offline RPG but in this genre it just seems to kitten a lot of people off.

It is the same reason (although partly in reverse) of why I skipped most of the BWE content. I wanted to be surprised by the new stuff and I knew I would be getting a good chunk of it after paying $100 for the kittening thing. Not only would I be seeing all the content, but it would be ready for prime time. Now I wish I had done as much of the beta events as I could because I will not see the things I had a taste of for a VERY long time. Especially on all my characters. Oh well, at least I get to play with the revenant specs.

Like someone else said earlier, there is not a match between what new specs I was looking forward to the most with what existing specs I like. In fact, the new spec I like the most is on a spec I loathe and hoped it would reinvigorate the profession. What is the point of my first HOT experience being with a profession I can not stand? I would think they would want people to have as good an impression of the jungle as possible.

Exactly. For me, the new Reaper spec looks fun for my languishing necro. I was looking forward to playing her again with the Reaper’s skills and traits.

But because I wasn’t happy with her existing specs, I never did world completion on her, and she has few hero points. So I’m forced to play her thru HoT with a spec I don’t like to get what I was looking forward to. Where’s the fun in that?

Now, on my mesmer, I like her current spec, like Chronomancer, and have 133 hero points. She might be fun in HoT as I earn hero points.

Funny thing about my Ranger main — she is my only character with World completion, and I have no interest in Druid. I’ll spend the points because they’re there, maybe get a skin.

My other characters are so far behind, I probably won’t play them. My poor engineer has almost no hero points, and like my necro, I was hoping to jump right into the Elite spec.

So I think I’ll be playing my mesmer, if I play at all. At this point, I’m actively looking for a new game.

Kal Spiro.9745:

gavyne.6847:

All the arguments have been heard and rehashed for many pages now. He said, she said, I disagree, you disagree, blah blah blah. There are clearly 2 sides of the camp and nobody’s going to change anybody’s minds here. People have their reasons for liking this design, just as people have very good reasons for not liking this design. Time for Anet to step in and comment again in my opinion.

Actually people have reasons for not minding the design, and people have questionable reasons for disliking, and there is no reason for ANet to step in because in two days it will be too late, and in one month everyone will forget all about it just like always happens. Usually because they’ve realized all their complaints were unfounded.

You are clearly in one camp and like I said, you have your opinions and you aren’t changing your opinions no matter how good other people’s reasons are. You see their reasons as “questionable”, ever think they see your reasoning as questionable as well?

Still just back & forth, like politics, so pointless, people thinking their opinions are the best and everybody else is wrong. By now it’s just rehashes of the same things said within the first 5 pages of Colin’s post.

gavyne.6847:

Kal Spiro.9745:

gavyne.6847:

All the arguments have been heard and rehashed for many pages now. He said, she said, I disagree, you disagree, blah blah blah. There are clearly 2 sides of the camp and nobody’s going to change anybody’s minds here. People have their reasons for liking this design, just as people have very good reasons for not liking this design. Time for Anet to step in and comment again in my opinion.

Actually people have reasons for not minding the design, and people have questionable reasons for disliking, and there is no reason for ANet to step in because in two days it will be too late, and in one month everyone will forget all about it just like always happens. Usually because they’ve realized all their complaints were unfounded.

You are clearing in one camp and like I said, you have your opinions and you aren’t changing your opinions no matter how good other people’s reasons are. You see their reasons as “questionable”, ever think they see your reasoning as questionable as well?

Still just back & forth, like politics, so pointless by now as it’s just rehashes of the same things said within the first 5 pages of Colin’s post.

Oh, I would absolutely change my mind, and have, for arguments that can’t be broken down to , “Because I wanna.” That isn’t the case here. So no, I wouldn’t change my mind for terrible arguments.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Actually people have reasons for not minding the design, and people have questionable reasons for disliking, and there is no reason for ANet to step in because in two days it will be too late, and in one month everyone will forget all about it just like always happens. Usually because they’ve realized all their complaints were unfounded.

It’s a fine enough point. The complaints will still have merit, but it’s not going to stop people from playing and exploring. It will mar the experience a little, but in the end, the irritation will be largely forgotten.

I know what I hoped for, but expectation and desire is just another form of assumption. The decision will be pretty easy to cope with, in the end. I’ll just be running my 80s until I have sufficient masteries that going back to level alts won’t feel like such a waste.

No biggie.

gavyne.6847:

Kal Spiro.9745:

gavyne.6847:

All the arguments have been heard and rehashed for many pages now. He said, she said, I disagree, you disagree, blah blah blah. There are clearly 2 sides of the camp and nobody’s going to change anybody’s minds here. People have their reasons for liking this design, just as people have very good reasons for not liking this design. Time for Anet to step in and comment again in my opinion.

Actually people have reasons for not minding the design, and people have questionable reasons for disliking, and there is no reason for ANet to step in because in two days it will be too late, and in one month everyone will forget all about it just like always happens. Usually because they’ve realized all their complaints were unfounded.

You are clearly in one camp and like I said, you have your opinions and you aren’t changing your opinions no matter how good other people’s reasons are. You see their reasons as “questionable”, ever think they see your reasoning as questionable as well?

Still just back & forth, like politics, so pointless, people thinking their opinions are the best and everybody else is wrong. By now it’s just rehashes of the same things said within the first 5 pages of Colin’s post.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Dseto.7689:

I always made it a point to get as many WPs as I can incase of events similar to Scarlet’s invasion and to do Guild missions, so I can just zip through most of it to get to HPs.

Yea I only have done that for a single toon usually though, have one toon that has all the guild mission and temple waypoints.

Sytherek.7689:

Menadena.7482:

fireflyry.7023:

I’m on the fence with this one but Anet does itself no favors with it’s BWE’s and using this as a selling point for pre-purchase. To me this is the catalyst of much of this complaint and I’m still of the opinion beta testing should be done by beta testers, not used as a sales pitch to customers.

I’ve played a fair few games where at the starting level your a fully kitted out uber-beast of death slaying everything in sight in some huge awe-inspiring battle with all skills unlocked and all weapons blazing full bore. Wahoo this game is friggin amazing!!!

end flashback/dream sequence

You wake up at level one naked holding a wet noodle realizing it will be a LONG time before you feel that way again.

From what I can garner this is exactly what has happened here with giving players everything for nothing to play with, then taking it away. Sure might work ok in an offline RPG but in this genre it just seems to kitten a lot of people off.

It is the same reason (although partly in reverse) of why I skipped most of the BWE content. I wanted to be surprised by the new stuff and I knew I would be getting a good chunk of it after paying $100 for the kittening thing. Not only would I be seeing all the content, but it would be ready for prime time. Now I wish I had done as much of the beta events as I could because I will not see the things I had a taste of for a VERY long time. Especially on all my characters. Oh well, at least I get to play with the revenant specs.

Like someone else said earlier, there is not a match between what new specs I was looking forward to the most with what existing specs I like. In fact, the new spec I like the most is on a spec I loathe and hoped it would reinvigorate the profession. What is the point of my first HOT experience being with a profession I can not stand? I would think they would want people to have as good an impression of the jungle as possible.

Exactly. For me, the new Reaper spec looks fun for my languishing necro. I was looking forward to playing her again with the Reaper’s skills and traits.

But because I wasn’t happy with her existing specs, I never did world completion on her, and she has few hero points. So I’m forced to play her thru HoT with a spec I don’t like to get what I was looking forward to. Where’s the fun in that?

Now, on my mesmer, I like her current spec, like Chronomancer, and have 133 hero points. She might be fun in HoT as I earn hero points.

Funny thing about my Ranger main — she is my only character with World completion, and I have no interest in Druid. I’ll spend the points because they’re there, maybe get a skin.

My other characters are so far behind, I probably won’t play them. My poor engineer has almost no hero points, and like my necro, I was hoping to jump right into the Elite spec.

So I think I’ll be playing my mesmer, if I play at all. At this point, I’m actively looking for a new game.

That’s unfortunate, but the whole point of the system is to add depth and options to characters people, presumably, already like rather than replace characters they hate.

The addition of the revnant is the intended “replacement character”

Like, I see what you’re getting at, but it’s a bit like complaining that characters suck at level 1 and are more fun to play at 80.

If you don’t like the game, that’s a valid opinion, but the whole idea was to add progression similar to new secondary classes and skill trainers in GW1. Obviously if you don’t like necro, and like the reaper, it may be a pain, but it’s highly unlikely you’d be a fan of anything post-reaper as you don’t actually like the class as a class, right?

People will mostly try Revenant. No need to unlock the elite spec to enjoy something new. I know a lot of people in my guild ( we are a wvw roaming guild btw) will play revenant.
And if you want to zerg HP and miss all the new content, it’s your problem.

For me personally, I don’t like it. I suspect I’ll do it for my necro because I really enjoyed Reaper over the beta weekends. But I won’t be unlocking elite specs for the rest of my 11 characters, because it’s simply not fun to do it 12 times.

Prior to Colin’s clarification post, here I was hoping I could access these new elite builds, which would’ve given me the incentives to actually play the new expansion content on various of my alts and classes. Because hey, at least I’ll be playing different builds other than the same classes I’ve played for the past 3 years. Forcing me to have to grind on the same classes I grew tired of playing just to unlock the fun new elite specs, that’s a terrible design decision in my opinion.

It’ll be a design decision proved to actually burn people out faster, it’ll make people not as happy playing in the new expansion, and in turn when players aren’t as happy they don’t spend as much money in the game. I see nobody winning if they keep the design.

All people are asking for is to be able to access the elite specs, so they can play in the new expansion as these elite specs. It’ll at least be something different and fun to do, playing characters that function a bit differently than the same ‘ol same ’ol classes of the past 3 years. Nobody’s asking for anything else handed to them, as there are plenty of things to do outside of elite specs, plenty of things to grind and spend time on, in all game modes.

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

There is more then enough content (if they get their crap together and release it .. cough raids cough) to keep everyone busy without time gating the Elites. We have Raids, Guild Halls, New Maps (for all modes), Fractals, Legendaries, Adventures, Events, Masteries, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I don’t see how time gating the Elites is productive, how does it affect anyone if you do it as a Necro or a Reaper for example. If they wanted to do something for elites they should have done a quest line of some sort.

The bottom line is, it hurts nothing to have elites playable, the rest of the content is still the same regardless of which class/spec you are using. There is simply no need and all this has done is divide the community and ticked off a lot of players. This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2 and instead they have managed to turn it into a witch hunt.

Elites aren’t time gated. If you can do the content in one day then you can have elites in one day. Time gating means that you cannot physically complete the content in less than a predefined period because you can only earn specific amounts toward it ever x period of time.

The need is, that’s how they wanted to do it. I would have preferred a different system too. Not the one everyone else seems to want, but still different than we got. But this is what we got, and there isn’t actually anything wrong with it, it’s just one way to do it. It isn’t wrong, it’s just one way.

This should be an exciting time, and for most of us it is. But ANet didn’t start a witch hunt. That “privilege” lays soully on the player base who deluded themselves into thinking they could just have anything without putting any effort into it. That has never been ANet’s style.

Actually that is your definition of time gating, imo time gating is anything that requires you to put in an excessive/lengthy amount of time. If you would have read my full post or any of my other posts for that matter you would have noted I’m not asking it to be handed to us with no strings attached. I would be ok with a small story line quest to unlock it, I would be ok with a realistic amount of HP, I’m not ok with either being forced into the jungle for the quickest method which still won’t be quick, I’m not ok with that slap in the face of an option for WvW players that is completely unrealistic.

Once again, just because Anet slapped the word Elite onto it doesn’t make it Elite. They themselves have stated multiple times that it is not meant to over shadow the core specs it is simply an optional addition.

No, that’s what a time gate is. You can make up whatever definition you want for whatever you want, but that doesn’t make it so.

Again that is your definition of time gate, feel free to look it up and see the NUMEROUS different definitions. I’ll help you out, most of it has to do with Electronics or Time/Space. Saying I can make up whatever definition I want is pretty hypocritical.

Always as “Random” as ever. Within the context of game systems there is very definitely a universally accepted form of the term time gating. Ascended gear is a time gate because you can only make one thread of each type a day. Celestial is a time gate because you can only charge one crystal a day. Laurels are time gated. Guild missions are time gated.

You see the gate is an insurmountable barrier. Gear gating is called such because you are physically incapable of completing the content if your gear isn’t good enough. It doesn’t matter what your skill level is. Level gating prevents you from even attempting content if you’re not high enough level.

Elites are gated in that you cannot even start in on them until you’ve completed all of the other lines. But, once you have unlocked them they are no longer gated in any way but your personal ability and willingness to complete content. It’s not a hard lock, though, so it’s not gated. Perhaps you understand now.

Nausicca.6038:

People will mostly try Revenant. No need to unlock the elite spec to enjoy something new. I know a lot of people in my guild ( we are a wvw roaming guild btw) will play revenant.
And if you want to zerg HP and miss all the new content, it’s your problem.

blaming the players for not playing within “the vision of the game” is a dangerous road to take.

i was on it once, with wildstar, it didnt turn out well. And i assure you it wasnt my problem, it was the 200 employees who got fired problem. I found another game. And i will be able to again.

gavyne.6847:

For me personally, I don’t like it. I suspect I’ll do it for my necro because I really enjoyed Reaper over the beta weekends. But I won’t be unlocking elite specs for the rest of my 11 characters, because it’s simply not fun to do it 12 times.

Prior to Colin’s clarification post, here I was hoping I could access these new elite builds, which would’ve given me the incentives to actually play the new expansion content on various of my alts and classes. Because hey, at least I’ll be playing different builds other than the same classes I’ve played for the past 3 years. Forcing me to have to grind on the same classes I grew tired of playing just to unlock the fun new elite specs, that’s a terrible design decision in my opinion.

It’ll be a design decision proved to actually burn people out faster, it’ll make people not as happy playing in the new expansion, and in turn when players aren’t as happy they don’t spend as much money in the game. I see nobody winning if they keep the design.

All people are asking for is to be able to access the elite specs, so they can play in the new expansion as these elite specs. It’ll at least be something different and fun to do, playing characters that function a bit differently than the same ‘ol same ’ol classes of the past 3 years. Nobody’s asking for anything else handed to them, as there are plenty of things to do outside of elite specs, plenty of things to grind and spend time on, in all game modes.

I was hoping we would have to do something in HoT to unlock the elites, probably each elite, possibly a mastery, but once unlocked they would be account wide and would function the same as any other trait line. That way it would be possible to start a new character with the intention of having them level as that elite. I find this decision disappointing. Not necessarily bad, just disappointing. It doesn’t incentivise me to level my way through content but rather to just auto 80 any character I might want to run as an Elite.

Kal Spiro.9745:

You didn’t lose Hero points, that’s physically impossible. You have as many and no more as anyone else who did the content. Hero Points are a finite commodity.

That’s exactly the point. They are finite.

Where was it said that poster “lost” points?Pretty sure I read it was complaint on the points being mis-spent when compared to players who have known about this for longer and as such have saved their points more appropriately to avoid the HP cap and subsequent forcing of having to play through HoT content straight away when maybe they would rather not.

Seems a fair call.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Where are you inventing this time from? In just two hours I unlocked half the HPs on the main continent, including all the ones in Orr. It isn’t going to take that nearly as long as people seem to be attributing to this process.

Burning through old content we have all played a thousand times is avoiding the issue.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Actually people have reasons for not minding the design, and people have questionable reasons for disliking, and there is no reason for ANet to step in because in two days it will be too late, and in one month everyone will forget all about it just like always happens. Usually because they’ve realized all their complaints were unfounded.

That’s an overly defeatist attitude unless your saying Anet has never ever ever changed a thing in this game based on customer feedback and are totally infallible.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

There is more then enough content (if they get their crap together and release it .. cough raids cough) to keep everyone busy without time gating the Elites. We have Raids, Guild Halls, New Maps (for all modes), Fractals, Legendaries, Adventures, Events, Masteries, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I don’t see how time gating the Elites is productive, how does it affect anyone if you do it as a Necro or a Reaper for example. If they wanted to do something for elites they should have done a quest line of some sort.

The bottom line is, it hurts nothing to have elites playable, the rest of the content is still the same regardless of which class/spec you are using. There is simply no need and all this has done is divide the community and ticked off a lot of players. This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2 and instead they have managed to turn it into a witch hunt.

Elites aren’t time gated. If you can do the content in one day then you can have elites in one day. Time gating means that you cannot physically complete the content in less than a predefined period because you can only earn specific amounts toward it ever x period of time.

The need is, that’s how they wanted to do it. I would have preferred a different system too. Not the one everyone else seems to want, but still different than we got. But this is what we got, and there isn’t actually anything wrong with it, it’s just one way to do it. It isn’t wrong, it’s just one way.

This should be an exciting time, and for most of us it is. But ANet didn’t start a witch hunt. That “privilege” lays soully on the player base who deluded themselves into thinking they could just have anything without putting any effort into it. That has never been ANet’s style.

Actually that is your definition of time gating, imo time gating is anything that requires you to put in an excessive/lengthy amount of time. If you would have read my full post or any of my other posts for that matter you would have noted I’m not asking it to be handed to us with no strings attached. I would be ok with a small story line quest to unlock it, I would be ok with a realistic amount of HP, I’m not ok with either being forced into the jungle for the quickest method which still won’t be quick, I’m not ok with that slap in the face of an option for WvW players that is completely unrealistic.

Once again, just because Anet slapped the word Elite onto it doesn’t make it Elite. They themselves have stated multiple times that it is not meant to over shadow the core specs it is simply an optional addition.

No, that’s what a time gate is. You can make up whatever definition you want for whatever you want, but that doesn’t make it so.

Again that is your definition of time gate, feel free to look it up and see the NUMEROUS different definitions. I’ll help you out, most of it has to do with Electronics or Time/Space. Saying I can make up whatever definition I want is pretty hypocritical.

Always as “Random” as ever. Within the context of game systems there is very definitely a universally accepted form of the term time gating. Ascended gear is a time gate because you can only make one thread of each type a day. Celestial is a time gate because you can only charge one crystal a day. Laurels are time gated. Guild missions are time gated.

You see the gate is an insurmountable barrier. Gear gating is called such because you are physically incapable of completing the content if your gear isn’t good enough. It doesn’t matter what your skill level is. Level gating prevents you from even attempting content if you’re not high enough level.

Elites are gated in that you cannot even start in on them until you’ve completed all of the other lines. But, once you have unlocked them they are no longer gated in any way but your personal ability and willingness to complete content. It’s not a hard lock, though, so it’s not gated. Perhaps you understand now.

There’s nothing to understand, you’re fabricating a definition that suits what you want to hear or bolsters your argument. I’m sorry if you don’t like people to disagree and point out the flaws, but unfortunately your definition is no more valid then mine. I’m not saying you are wrong and I am right (as you seem to be trying to do) I’m saying because there is no hard definition in this case of Time Gate neither one of us are wrong or right, it’s open to interpretation. Just accept that because you decide something means one thing doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the absolute truth.

Perhaps now you can understand ?

PopeUrban.2578:

Sytherek.7689:

Menadena.7482:

fireflyry.7023:

I’m on the fence with this one but Anet does itself no favors with it’s BWE’s and using this as a selling point for pre-purchase. To me this is the catalyst of much of this complaint and I’m still of the opinion beta testing should be done by beta testers, not used as a sales pitch to customers.

I’ve played a fair few games where at the starting level your a fully kitted out uber-beast of death slaying everything in sight in some huge awe-inspiring battle with all skills unlocked and all weapons blazing full bore. Wahoo this game is friggin amazing!!!

end flashback/dream sequence

You wake up at level one naked holding a wet noodle realizing it will be a LONG time before you feel that way again.

From what I can garner this is exactly what has happened here with giving players everything for nothing to play with, then taking it away. Sure might work ok in an offline RPG but in this genre it just seems to kitten a lot of people off.

It is the same reason (although partly in reverse) of why I skipped most of the BWE content. I wanted to be surprised by the new stuff and I knew I would be getting a good chunk of it after paying $100 for the kittening thing. Not only would I be seeing all the content, but it would be ready for prime time. Now I wish I had done as much of the beta events as I could because I will not see the things I had a taste of for a VERY long time. Especially on all my characters. Oh well, at least I get to play with the revenant specs.

Like someone else said earlier, there is not a match between what new specs I was looking forward to the most with what existing specs I like. In fact, the new spec I like the most is on a spec I loathe and hoped it would reinvigorate the profession. What is the point of my first HOT experience being with a profession I can not stand? I would think they would want people to have as good an impression of the jungle as possible.

Exactly. For me, the new Reaper spec looks fun for my languishing necro. I was looking forward to playing her again with the Reaper’s skills and traits.

But because I wasn’t happy with her existing specs, I never did world completion on her, and she has few hero points. So I’m forced to play her thru HoT with a spec I don’t like to get what I was looking forward to. Where’s the fun in that?

Now, on my mesmer, I like her current spec, like Chronomancer, and have 133 hero points. She might be fun in HoT as I earn hero points.

Funny thing about my Ranger main — she is my only character with World completion, and I have no interest in Druid. I’ll spend the points because they’re there, maybe get a skin.

My other characters are so far behind, I probably won’t play them. My poor engineer has almost no hero points, and like my necro, I was hoping to jump right into the Elite spec.

So I think I’ll be playing my mesmer, if I play at all. At this point, I’m actively looking for a new game.

That’s unfortunate, but the whole point of the system is to add depth and options to characters people, presumably, already like rather than replace characters they hate.

The addition of the revnant is the intended “replacement character”

Like, I see what you’re getting at, but it’s a bit like complaining that characters suck at level 1 and are more fun to play at 80.

If you don’t like the game, that’s a valid opinion, but the whole idea was to add progression similar to new secondary classes and skill trainers in GW1. Obviously if you don’t like necro, and like the reaper, it may be a pain, but it’s highly unlikely you’d be a fan of anything post-reaper as you don’t actually like the class as a class, right?

No, I love the pre-HoT necromancer concept and design. I don’t like how weak it is in so many ways. Reaper fixes that problem. I like the class as it’s being updated.

Consider this… I love my Ranger main, and have 0 interest in the druid. So the 214 hero points I have sitting on her is a waste.

Now, If ANET gave me a way to transfer hero points between characters, I’d be happie r. I did the work, just on the wrong character (years ago).

fireflyry.7023:

Kal Spiro.9745:

You didn’t lose Hero points, that’s physically impossible. You have as many and no more as anyone else who did the content. Hero Points are a finite commodity.

That’s exactly the point. They are finite.

Where was it said that poster “lost” points?Pretty sure I read it was complaint on the points being mis-spent when compared to players who have known about this for longer and as such have saved their points more appropriately to avoid the HP cap and subsequent forcing of having to play through HoT content straight away when maybe they would rather not.

Seems a fair call.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

WRONG. Veteran GW2 players who have spent most of their time on a main who played the game 3-6 months after lunch, left and came back in the past six months are also getting burned on this. Many of us used our hero points for crafting purposes back in 2012-2013. While we were gone ArenaNet changed a lot of things. We came back to find we have few hero points (still) but not only that some of our core specializations that we unlocked are now locked again and have to be re-opened with hero points. With hero challenges tapped out our only option is to take our character into HoT and work though 1/2 the game of HoT to be able to obtain the level of mastery needed to even get to those first 20 hero challenges and unlock the full trait line.

According to this he is claiming that people left and came back, apparently with level 80 and 100% skill points completed, to be unable to unlock things. Which is 100% false. All trait lines and skills could be 100% unlocked from being 80. No one lost more points than were owed them for being 80 plus whatever skill points they have. Therefore anyone in this situation, regardless of when they left or came back will be in a good position right now to partially unlock their elite on day one.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Where are you inventing this time from? In just two hours I unlocked half the HPs on the main continent, including all the ones in Orr. It isn’t going to take that nearly as long as people seem to be attributing to this process.

Burning through old content we have all played a thousand times is avoiding the issue.

No, it’s a question of time. The statement was that it would take multiple months to do it with 8 hours a week, and that’s simply not true.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Actually people have reasons for not minding the design, and people have questionable reasons for disliking, and there is no reason for ANet to step in because in two days it will be too late, and in one month everyone will forget all about it just like always happens. Usually because they’ve realized all their complaints were unfounded.

That’s an overly defeatist attitude unless your saying Anet has never ever ever changed a thing in this game based on customer feedback and are totally infallible.

It’s neither defeatist, nor claiming infallibility. ANet has changed their mind. But rarely, and not two days before release of the content. This is simply an observation from someone who has been frequenting the forums for the three plus years this game has been out. People scream bloody murder over things they have decided will ruin their lives without even having the opportunity to test that theory. Then the thing falls and a month later no one is complaining about it anymore because they’ve gotten used to it, realized it’s not so bad, and in some cases realize it’s better than the way they thought. Those same people who screamed will end up defending the system in another half a year if anything comes up to change it.

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

There is more then enough content (if they get their crap together and release it .. cough raids cough) to keep everyone busy without time gating the Elites. We have Raids, Guild Halls, New Maps (for all modes), Fractals, Legendaries, Adventures, Events, Masteries, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I don’t see how time gating the Elites is productive, how does it affect anyone if you do it as a Necro or a Reaper for example. If they wanted to do something for elites they should have done a quest line of some sort.

The bottom line is, it hurts nothing to have elites playable, the rest of the content is still the same regardless of which class/spec you are using. There is simply no need and all this has done is divide the community and ticked off a lot of players. This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2 and instead they have managed to turn it into a witch hunt.

Elites aren’t time gated. If you can do the content in one day then you can have elites in one day. Time gating means that you cannot physically complete the content in less than a predefined period because you can only earn specific amounts toward it ever x period of time.

The need is, that’s how they wanted to do it. I would have preferred a different system too. Not the one everyone else seems to want, but still different than we got. But this is what we got, and there isn’t actually anything wrong with it, it’s just one way to do it. It isn’t wrong, it’s just one way.

This should be an exciting time, and for most of us it is. But ANet didn’t start a witch hunt. That “privilege” lays soully on the player base who deluded themselves into thinking they could just have anything without putting any effort into it. That has never been ANet’s style.

Actually that is your definition of time gating, imo time gating is anything that requires you to put in an excessive/lengthy amount of time. If you would have read my full post or any of my other posts for that matter you would have noted I’m not asking it to be handed to us with no strings attached. I would be ok with a small story line quest to unlock it, I would be ok with a realistic amount of HP, I’m not ok with either being forced into the jungle for the quickest method which still won’t be quick, I’m not ok with that slap in the face of an option for WvW players that is completely unrealistic.

Once again, just because Anet slapped the word Elite onto it doesn’t make it Elite. They themselves have stated multiple times that it is not meant to over shadow the core specs it is simply an optional addition.

No, that’s what a time gate is. You can make up whatever definition you want for whatever you want, but that doesn’t make it so.

Again that is your definition of time gate, feel free to look it up and see the NUMEROUS different definitions. I’ll help you out, most of it has to do with Electronics or Time/Space. Saying I can make up whatever definition I want is pretty hypocritical.

Always as “Random” as ever. Within the context of game systems there is very definitely a universally accepted form of the term time gating. Ascended gear is a time gate because you can only make one thread of each type a day. Celestial is a time gate because you can only charge one crystal a day. Laurels are time gated. Guild missions are time gated.

You see the gate is an insurmountable barrier. Gear gating is called such because you are physically incapable of completing the content if your gear isn’t good enough. It doesn’t matter what your skill level is. Level gating prevents you from even attempting content if you’re not high enough level.

Elites are gated in that you cannot even start in on them until you’ve completed all of the other lines. But, once you have unlocked them they are no longer gated in any way but your personal ability and willingness to complete content. It’s not a hard lock, though, so it’s not gated. Perhaps you understand now.

There’s nothing to understand, you’re fabricating a definition that suits what you want to hear or bolsters your argument. I’m sorry if you don’t like people to disagree and point out the flaws, but unfortunately your definition is no more valid then mine. I’m not saying you are wrong and I am right (as you seem to be trying to do) I’m saying because there is no hard definition in this case of Time Gate neither one of us are wrong or right, it’s open to interpretation. Just accept that because you decide something means one thing doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the absolute truth.

Perhaps now you can understand ?

You’re failing to understand and just posting gibberish. This isn’t pointing out flaws, it’s blatantly hiding from facts even when they’re explained to you. You don’t understand the term, you refuse to understand the term, and you actively choose to deny it. Fine. But you’re wrong.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Those same people who screamed will end up defending the system in another half a year if anything comes up to change it.

The only reason to defend a system that you disagree with, is because it’s the lesser of 2 evils. That is the only reason you’d see me defend it in a year.

Sytherek.7689:

PopeUrban.2578:

Sytherek.7689:

Menadena.7482:

fireflyry.7023:

I’m on the fence with this one but Anet does itself no favors with it’s BWE’s and using this as a selling point for pre-purchase. To me this is the catalyst of much of this complaint and I’m still of the opinion beta testing should be done by beta testers, not used as a sales pitch to customers.

I’ve played a fair few games where at the starting level your a fully kitted out uber-beast of death slaying everything in sight in some huge awe-inspiring battle with all skills unlocked and all weapons blazing full bore. Wahoo this game is friggin amazing!!!

end flashback/dream sequence

You wake up at level one naked holding a wet noodle realizing it will be a LONG time before you feel that way again.

From what I can garner this is exactly what has happened here with giving players everything for nothing to play with, then taking it away. Sure might work ok in an offline RPG but in this genre it just seems to kitten a lot of people off.

It is the same reason (although partly in reverse) of why I skipped most of the BWE content. I wanted to be surprised by the new stuff and I knew I would be getting a good chunk of it after paying $100 for the kittening thing. Not only would I be seeing all the content, but it would be ready for prime time. Now I wish I had done as much of the beta events as I could because I will not see the things I had a taste of for a VERY long time. Especially on all my characters. Oh well, at least I get to play with the revenant specs.

Like someone else said earlier, there is not a match between what new specs I was looking forward to the most with what existing specs I like. In fact, the new spec I like the most is on a spec I loathe and hoped it would reinvigorate the profession. What is the point of my first HOT experience being with a profession I can not stand? I would think they would want people to have as good an impression of the jungle as possible.

Exactly. For me, the new Reaper spec looks fun for my languishing necro. I was looking forward to playing her again with the Reaper’s skills and traits.

But because I wasn’t happy with her existing specs, I never did world completion on her, and she has few hero points. So I’m forced to play her thru HoT with a spec I don’t like to get what I was looking forward to. Where’s the fun in that?

Now, on my mesmer, I like her current spec, like Chronomancer, and have 133 hero points. She might be fun in HoT as I earn hero points.

Funny thing about my Ranger main — she is my only character with World completion, and I have no interest in Druid. I’ll spend the points because they’re there, maybe get a skin.

My other characters are so far behind, I probably won’t play them. My poor engineer has almost no hero points, and like my necro, I was hoping to jump right into the Elite spec.

So I think I’ll be playing my mesmer, if I play at all. At this point, I’m actively looking for a new game.

That’s unfortunate, but the whole point of the system is to add depth and options to characters people, presumably, already like rather than replace characters they hate.

The addition of the revnant is the intended “replacement character”

Like, I see what you’re getting at, but it’s a bit like complaining that characters suck at level 1 and are more fun to play at 80.

If you don’t like the game, that’s a valid opinion, but the whole idea was to add progression similar to new secondary classes and skill trainers in GW1. Obviously if you don’t like necro, and like the reaper, it may be a pain, but it’s highly unlikely you’d be a fan of anything post-reaper as you don’t actually like the class as a class, right?

No, I love the pre-HoT necromancer concept and design. I don’t like how weak it is in so many ways. Reaper fixes that problem. I like the class as it’s being updated.

Consider this… I love my Ranger main, and have 0 interest in the druid. So the 214 hero points I have sitting on her is a waste.

Now, If ANET gave me a way to transfer hero points between characters, I’d be happie r. I did the work, just on the wrong character (years ago).

Not really a waste, think of it as a bank. Knowing you don’t want druid means you have those points in the bank for the next e-spec, right? Maybe a petless ranger spec if we’re lucky!

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Those same people who screamed will end up defending the system in another half a year if anything comes up to change it.

The only reason to defend a system that you disagree with, is because it’s the lesser of 2 evils. That is the only reason you’d see me defend it in a year.

Welcome to the forums. I applaud your current lack of cynicism.

PopeUrban.2578:

Sytherek.7689:

PopeUrban.2578:

Sytherek.7689:

Menadena.7482:

fireflyry.7023:

I’m on the fence with this one but Anet does itself no favors with it’s BWE’s and using this as a selling point for pre-purchase. To me this is the catalyst of much of this complaint and I’m still of the opinion beta testing should be done by beta testers, not used as a sales pitch to customers.

I’ve played a fair few games where at the starting level your a fully kitted out uber-beast of death slaying everything in sight in some huge awe-inspiring battle with all skills unlocked and all weapons blazing full bore. Wahoo this game is friggin amazing!!!

end flashback/dream sequence

You wake up at level one naked holding a wet noodle realizing it will be a LONG time before you feel that way again.

From what I can garner this is exactly what has happened here with giving players everything for nothing to play with, then taking it away. Sure might work ok in an offline RPG but in this genre it just seems to kitten a lot of people off.

It is the same reason (although partly in reverse) of why I skipped most of the BWE content. I wanted to be surprised by the new stuff and I knew I would be getting a good chunk of it after paying $100 for the kittening thing. Not only would I be seeing all the content, but it would be ready for prime time. Now I wish I had done as much of the beta events as I could because I will not see the things I had a taste of for a VERY long time. Especially on all my characters. Oh well, at least I get to play with the revenant specs.

Like someone else said earlier, there is not a match between what new specs I was looking forward to the most with what existing specs I like. In fact, the new spec I like the most is on a spec I loathe and hoped it would reinvigorate the profession. What is the point of my first HOT experience being with a profession I can not stand? I would think they would want people to have as good an impression of the jungle as possible.

Exactly. For me, the new Reaper spec looks fun for my languishing necro. I was looking forward to playing her again with the Reaper’s skills and traits.

But because I wasn’t happy with her existing specs, I never did world completion on her, and she has few hero points. So I’m forced to play her thru HoT with a spec I don’t like to get what I was looking forward to. Where’s the fun in that?

Now, on my mesmer, I like her current spec, like Chronomancer, and have 133 hero points. She might be fun in HoT as I earn hero points.

Funny thing about my Ranger main — she is my only character with World completion, and I have no interest in Druid. I’ll spend the points because they’re there, maybe get a skin.

My other characters are so far behind, I probably won’t play them. My poor engineer has almost no hero points, and like my necro, I was hoping to jump right into the Elite spec.

So I think I’ll be playing my mesmer, if I play at all. At this point, I’m actively looking for a new game.

That’s unfortunate, but the whole point of the system is to add depth and options to characters people, presumably, already like rather than replace characters they hate.

The addition of the revnant is the intended “replacement character”

Like, I see what you’re getting at, but it’s a bit like complaining that characters suck at level 1 and are more fun to play at 80.

If you don’t like the game, that’s a valid opinion, but the whole idea was to add progression similar to new secondary classes and skill trainers in GW1. Obviously if you don’t like necro, and like the reaper, it may be a pain, but it’s highly unlikely you’d be a fan of anything post-reaper as you don’t actually like the class as a class, right?

No, I love the pre-HoT necromancer concept and design. I don’t like how weak it is in so many ways. Reaper fixes that problem. I like the class as it’s being updated.

Consider this… I love my Ranger main, and have 0 interest in the druid. So the 214 hero points I have sitting on her is a waste.

Now, If ANET gave me a way to transfer hero points between characters, I’d be happie r. I did the work, just on the wrong character (years ago).

Not really a waste, think of it as a bank. Knowing you don’t want druid means you have those points in the bank for the next e-spec, right? Maybe a petless ranger spec if we’re lucky!

This is the only reasonable way to look at this. I like my pets, but that’s neither here nor there.

fireflyry.7023:

BobbyT.7192:

Burn.5401:

I wouldn’t mind “progressively” unlocking the elite spec on one of my characters, but doing the same grind over and over on all my alts? How did they overlook this, lol.

your the ones that made the alts, they should take up a lot of time and effort imo

Yeah but the game openly embraced and encouraged Altoholics, they have always been welcomed by the designers with specific game mechanics to encourage this play style of mass re-rolling and character slot buying. Now they are being retroactively punished for spreading their time, now the most important resource in the game, and in many cases RL gold too thinly over to many toons.

The requirements to keep this play style relevant and enjoyable just went way up.

I find it hard to focus on more than 2-3 toons in any game but I get why the Alties are grumpy.

True, I always find it bizarre when people ask me ‘which character is your main’. I go between them so often my first 4 characters had about the same time on each of them as the other 3 for a long time.

I consider alts mules and characters I am testing something out with. Characters I do not have much emotional investment in.

Currently I have 8 mains. In a few days I will have 9. Which one I am using on a given day is part what I am doing, part where I am, part who is newest, part what profession/race I like, and part whim.

PopeUrban.2578:

Sytherek.7689:

PopeUrban.2578:

Sytherek.7689:

Menadena.7482:

fireflyry.7023:

I’m on the fence with this one but Anet does itself no favors with it’s BWE’s and using this as a selling point for pre-purchase. To me this is the catalyst of much of this complaint and I’m still of the opinion beta testing should be done by beta testers, not used as a sales pitch to customers.

I’ve played a fair few games where at the starting level your a fully kitted out uber-beast of death slaying everything in sight in some huge awe-inspiring battle with all skills unlocked and all weapons blazing full bore. Wahoo this game is friggin amazing!!!

end flashback/dream sequence

You wake up at level one naked holding a wet noodle realizing it will be a LONG time before you feel that way again.

From what I can garner this is exactly what has happened here with giving players everything for nothing to play with, then taking it away. Sure might work ok in an offline RPG but in this genre it just seems to kitten a lot of people off.

It is the same reason (although partly in reverse) of why I skipped most of the BWE content. I wanted to be surprised by the new stuff and I knew I would be getting a good chunk of it after paying $100 for the kittening thing. Not only would I be seeing all the content, but it would be ready for prime time. Now I wish I had done as much of the beta events as I could because I will not see the things I had a taste of for a VERY long time. Especially on all my characters. Oh well, at least I get to play with the revenant specs.

Like someone else said earlier, there is not a match between what new specs I was looking forward to the most with what existing specs I like. In fact, the new spec I like the most is on a spec I loathe and hoped it would reinvigorate the profession. What is the point of my first HOT experience being with a profession I can not stand? I would think they would want people to have as good an impression of the jungle as possible.

Exactly. For me, the new Reaper spec looks fun for my languishing necro. I was looking forward to playing her again with the Reaper’s skills and traits.

But because I wasn’t happy with her existing specs, I never did world completion on her, and she has few hero points. So I’m forced to play her thru HoT with a spec I don’t like to get what I was looking forward to. Where’s the fun in that?

Now, on my mesmer, I like her current spec, like Chronomancer, and have 133 hero points. She might be fun in HoT as I earn hero points.

Funny thing about my Ranger main — she is my only character with World completion, and I have no interest in Druid. I’ll spend the points because they’re there, maybe get a skin.

My other characters are so far behind, I probably won’t play them. My poor engineer has almost no hero points, and like my necro, I was hoping to jump right into the Elite spec.

So I think I’ll be playing my mesmer, if I play at all. At this point, I’m actively looking for a new game.

That’s unfortunate, but the whole point of the system is to add depth and options to characters people, presumably, already like rather than replace characters they hate.

The addition of the revnant is the intended “replacement character”

Like, I see what you’re getting at, but it’s a bit like complaining that characters suck at level 1 and are more fun to play at 80.

If you don’t like the game, that’s a valid opinion, but the whole idea was to add progression similar to new secondary classes and skill trainers in GW1. Obviously if you don’t like necro, and like the reaper, it may be a pain, but it’s highly unlikely you’d be a fan of anything post-reaper as you don’t actually like the class as a class, right?

No, I love the pre-HoT necromancer concept and design. I don’t like how weak it is in so many ways. Reaper fixes that problem. I like the class as it’s being updated.

Consider this… I love my Ranger main, and have 0 interest in the druid. So the 214 hero points I have sitting on her is a waste.

Now, If ANET gave me a way to transfer hero points between characters, I’d be happie r. I did the work, just on the wrong character (years ago).

Not really a waste, think of it as a bank. Knowing you don’t want druid means you have those points in the bank for the next e-spec, right? Maybe a petless ranger spec if we’re lucky!

The next expansion will likely need 4000 points to get its specialization, if ANET follows its current model.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

There is more then enough content (if they get their crap together and release it .. cough raids cough) to keep everyone busy without time gating the Elites. We have Raids, Guild Halls, New Maps (for all modes), Fractals, Legendaries, Adventures, Events, Masteries, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I don’t see how time gating the Elites is productive, how does it affect anyone if you do it as a Necro or a Reaper for example. If they wanted to do something for elites they should have done a quest line of some sort.

The bottom line is, it hurts nothing to have elites playable, the rest of the content is still the same regardless of which class/spec you are using. There is simply no need and all this has done is divide the community and ticked off a lot of players. This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2 and instead they have managed to turn it into a witch hunt.

Elites aren’t time gated. If you can do the content in one day then you can have elites in one day. Time gating means that you cannot physically complete the content in less than a predefined period because you can only earn specific amounts toward it ever x period of time.

The need is, that’s how they wanted to do it. I would have preferred a different system too. Not the one everyone else seems to want, but still different than we got. But this is what we got, and there isn’t actually anything wrong with it, it’s just one way to do it. It isn’t wrong, it’s just one way.

This should be an exciting time, and for most of us it is. But ANet didn’t start a witch hunt. That “privilege” lays soully on the player base who deluded themselves into thinking they could just have anything without putting any effort into it. That has never been ANet’s style.

Actually that is your definition of time gating, imo time gating is anything that requires you to put in an excessive/lengthy amount of time. If you would have read my full post or any of my other posts for that matter you would have noted I’m not asking it to be handed to us with no strings attached. I would be ok with a small story line quest to unlock it, I would be ok with a realistic amount of HP, I’m not ok with either being forced into the jungle for the quickest method which still won’t be quick, I’m not ok with that slap in the face of an option for WvW players that is completely unrealistic.

Once again, just because Anet slapped the word Elite onto it doesn’t make it Elite. They themselves have stated multiple times that it is not meant to over shadow the core specs it is simply an optional addition.

No, that’s what a time gate is. You can make up whatever definition you want for whatever you want, but that doesn’t make it so.

Again that is your definition of time gate, feel free to look it up and see the NUMEROUS different definitions. I’ll help you out, most of it has to do with Electronics or Time/Space. Saying I can make up whatever definition I want is pretty hypocritical.

Always as “Random” as ever. Within the context of game systems there is very definitely a universally accepted form of the term time gating. Ascended gear is a time gate because you can only make one thread of each type a day. Celestial is a time gate because you can only charge one crystal a day. Laurels are time gated. Guild missions are time gated.

You see the gate is an insurmountable barrier. Gear gating is called such because you are physically incapable of completing the content if your gear isn’t good enough. It doesn’t matter what your skill level is. Level gating prevents you from even attempting content if you’re not high enough level.

Elites are gated in that you cannot even start in on them until you’ve completed all of the other lines. But, once you have unlocked them they are no longer gated in any way but your personal ability and willingness to complete content. It’s not a hard lock, though, so it’s not gated. Perhaps you understand now.

There’s nothing to understand, you’re fabricating a definition that suits what you want to hear or bolsters your argument. I’m sorry if you don’t like people to disagree and point out the flaws, but unfortunately your definition is no more valid then mine. I’m not saying you are wrong and I am right (as you seem to be trying to do) I’m saying because there is no hard definition in this case of Time Gate neither one of us are wrong or right, it’s open to interpretation. Just accept that because you decide something means one thing doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the absolute truth.

Perhaps now you can understand ?

You’re failing to understand and just posting gibberish. This isn’t pointing out flaws, it’s blatantly hiding from facts even when they’re explained to you. You don’t understand the term, you refuse to understand the term, and you actively choose to deny it. Fine. But you’re wrong.

You see I could answer you with the exact same comment. Seeing as how you need that ego stroked though I’ll just go ahead and say, sure, you are always right and everyone who does not agree is always wrong. There you go sport, now you can sleep at night.

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Random.4691:

There is more then enough content (if they get their crap together and release it .. cough raids cough) to keep everyone busy without time gating the Elites. We have Raids, Guild Halls, New Maps (for all modes), Fractals, Legendaries, Adventures, Events, Masteries, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I don’t see how time gating the Elites is productive, how does it affect anyone if you do it as a Necro or a Reaper for example. If they wanted to do something for elites they should have done a quest line of some sort.

The bottom line is, it hurts nothing to have elites playable, the rest of the content is still the same regardless of which class/spec you are using. There is simply no need and all this has done is divide the community and ticked off a lot of players. This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2 and instead they have managed to turn it into a witch hunt.

Elites aren’t time gated. If you can do the content in one day then you can have elites in one day. Time gating means that you cannot physically complete the content in less than a predefined period because you can only earn specific amounts toward it ever x period of time.

The need is, that’s how they wanted to do it. I would have preferred a different system too. Not the one everyone else seems to want, but still different than we got. But this is what we got, and there isn’t actually anything wrong with it, it’s just one way to do it. It isn’t wrong, it’s just one way.

This should be an exciting time, and for most of us it is. But ANet didn’t start a witch hunt. That “privilege” lays soully on the player base who deluded themselves into thinking they could just have anything without putting any effort into it. That has never been ANet’s style.

Actually that is your definition of time gating, imo time gating is anything that requires you to put in an excessive/lengthy amount of time. If you would have read my full post or any of my other posts for that matter you would have noted I’m not asking it to be handed to us with no strings attached. I would be ok with a small story line quest to unlock it, I would be ok with a realistic amount of HP, I’m not ok with either being forced into the jungle for the quickest method which still won’t be quick, I’m not ok with that slap in the face of an option for WvW players that is completely unrealistic.

Once again, just because Anet slapped the word Elite onto it doesn’t make it Elite. They themselves have stated multiple times that it is not meant to over shadow the core specs it is simply an optional addition.

No, that’s what a time gate is. You can make up whatever definition you want for whatever you want, but that doesn’t make it so.

Again that is your definition of time gate, feel free to look it up and see the NUMEROUS different definitions. I’ll help you out, most of it has to do with Electronics or Time/Space. Saying I can make up whatever definition I want is pretty hypocritical.

Always as “Random” as ever. Within the context of game systems there is very definitely a universally accepted form of the term time gating. Ascended gear is a time gate because you can only make one thread of each type a day. Celestial is a time gate because you can only charge one crystal a day. Laurels are time gated. Guild missions are time gated.

You see the gate is an insurmountable barrier. Gear gating is called such because you are physically incapable of completing the content if your gear isn’t good enough. It doesn’t matter what your skill level is. Level gating prevents you from even attempting content if you’re not high enough level.

Elites are gated in that you cannot even start in on them until you’ve completed all of the other lines. But, once you have unlocked them they are no longer gated in any way but your personal ability and willingness to complete content. It’s not a hard lock, though, so it’s not gated. Perhaps you understand now.

There’s nothing to understand, you’re fabricating a definition that suits what you want to hear or bolsters your argument. I’m sorry if you don’t like people to disagree and point out the flaws, but unfortunately your definition is no more valid then mine. I’m not saying you are wrong and I am right (as you seem to be trying to do) I’m saying because there is no hard definition in this case of Time Gate neither one of us are wrong or right, it’s open to interpretation. Just accept that because you decide something means one thing doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the absolute truth.

Perhaps now you can understand ?

You’re failing to understand and just posting gibberish. This isn’t pointing out flaws, it’s blatantly hiding from facts even when they’re explained to you. You don’t understand the term, you refuse to understand the term, and you actively choose to deny it. Fine. But you’re wrong.

You see I could answer you with the exact same comment. Seeing as how you need that ego stroked though I’ll just go ahead and say, sure, you are always right and everyone who does not agree is always wrong. There you go sport, now you can sleep at night.

I have a challenge for you. Go into game, now or your next earliest convenience, and ask in absolutely any zone, “What is Time Gating?” The answer you will get is the one I described to you. Go into any MMO and any zone and ask, “What is Time Gating?” The answer you will get is the one I described to you.

This is a universally accepted term within the context of gaming systems, not because I want it to be, nor demand it to be, but because it is. I don’t have an ego on this, I just can’t abide people using terms improperly when I can educate them. This is why I say you actively choose to deny it, because I have educated you and yet you continue to claim otherwise.

Or you could main a warrior and you don’t need any hero points.

it seems to me there are a lot of similarities in this thread to ones from four months ago when they made the change from skill points to hero points and converted excess points to spirit shards.

many people – especially those with exclusively WvW characters (myself included) – were upset that in anet’s original proposition our lvl80s would loose access to skills we had obtained from scrolls and would have to complete open world skill points/hero challenges. quite a few comments then were themed around the helpful ‘just play the game’, ‘get over it’, ‘do you hate content?’, and ‘call that grind?’, ‘maybe you should play something other than an MMO…?’. but in the end anet listened to players concerns and ultimately decided that a character upon levelling to 80, however they got there or unlocked their skills, should be still be able to unlock all core skills and traits without having any additional open world requirements. which was the core argument of those players against the original proposition. it was a great decision for both old and new characters, who upon dinging 80 are able to unlock all of their core profession abilities.

i think we’re back to a similar place (except we’re not talking about losing something, but obtaining something new), yet anet still want to tie traits and skills to per character completion of open world content. that is:

a. elite specialisation unlocks are soulbound/per character
b. they require the completion of hero points in the open world (either directly or indirectly via WvW rank-ups)

those are key design decisions which presumably follow from a guiding principle that the expac provides post lvl80 character progression – to obtain/complete an elite specialisation each character must have additional gameplay to unlock the new abilities (traits/skills/items/skins). or in other words go on a journey without a level cap increase.

for open world PvE, that’s fair enough, but even so it should have been clearly communicated to the player base, e.g. “guys, if an existing character has world completion, or more than x hero challenges completed in the open world, then you’ll gain access to the elite specialisation; but you’ll still have to complete y more to fully unlock it because that’s where we’re going with this”.

but it wasn’t.

Vague Memory.2817:

Random.4691:

There is more then enough content (if they get their crap together and release it .. cough raids cough) to keep everyone busy without time gating the Elites. We have Raids, Guild Halls, New Maps (for all modes), Fractals, Legendaries, Adventures, Events, Masteries, and I’m sure I’ve missed a few. I don’t see how time gating the Elites is productive, how does it affect anyone if you do it as a Necro or a Reaper for example. If they wanted to do something for elites they should have done a quest line of some sort.

The bottom line is, it hurts nothing to have elites playable, the rest of the content is still the same regardless of which class/spec you are using. There is simply no need and all this has done is divide the community and ticked off a lot of players. This is suppose to be an exciting time for GW2 and instead they have managed to turn it into a witch hunt.

This is one of the most lucid and honest post in the entire thread.

It’s true. They already have the Mastery system for achievement based play mechanic changes. The Elite Specs should be part of what it means to be in HoT from he very beginning for those who choose to use them. The only explanation foe why the Elite Specs became an achievement based unlock (one that largely discredits existing achievement from core game I might add) is money. They have the numbers and realize in order to get to the new hero challenges in HoT players will need masteries. Masteries unlock with XP. The strongest XP boosters can be purchased in the cash shop/gem store.

So instead of showing some integrity and giving players incentive to come into HoT with their elite specs and enjoy a special time playing the first new map with exciting new play mechanics they have chosen to divide the PvE community. Probably about half will focus on grinding for hero challenges/xp ignoring the story and not interested in helping players along the way. The players who approach HoT in that way will be rewarded with Elite Spec unlock first.

That has strong potential to trash the game as it will divide players and guildies on their objectives. It also transitions GW2 to a paradigm similar to the grindy often criticized, “dime a dozen” MMOs that focus on grind. Consider this and the new F2P model and you see what they just did with your favorite game.

Was ArenaNet pretentious enough to believe players will be so excited about the new maps and mastery grind that they would be willing to prolong unlocking their Elite Spekittenil half way though the HoT content? Taking the high road, I believe this may be exactly what it is. The new maps are well designed but alone they are not exciting. As designed players have strong incentive to grind for hero challenges in HoT and to focus on nothing else until that’s accomplished. This also really undermines the team that put so much work into the instanced story aspect of the game because since most of us will be bringing to unlock our Elite Specs the instanced story will be passed over and maybe someday will come back to it.

Where was the creative team when it came to fuses the Elite Specs into the game story? In the trailer we have Rytlock (a warrior) who goes into the mist and comes back as a Revenant (as if Revenant was planned to be Warrior’s elite spec at one time). There is no way they have fused Elite Specs into the story/lore so they are purely a core functional play mechanic unique to HoT. Core play mechanics should not be based on long term achievement. Unlockable during early levels or though tutorials, yes. Long term achievement. No. Mastery’s are the unlock able Non-core play mechanic. It takes a very greed driven company to force players to do both

As I’ve said a few times Horrible design.

At least those in charge of PvP are doing some great things.

Well speaking of Rytlock. My Warr would have taken pistol over torch and the berserker elite anytime.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Unlocking your elite spec is a training line in your training panel that costs hero points. You do need to have trained all the existing training lines before you’re allowed to put hero points into your elite spec.

If you’ve got all the hero points in the existing game you’ll have enough to train about half the elite specialization training line on launch day. The rest you’ll need to earn in the jungle or via the new system Tyler outlined yesterday from WvW. The number of points to fully train your elite spec is higher than other training lines – but hero challenges in the jungle are worth 10 points each, so it’s not actually as big as it appears.

Shame that I deliberately didn’t unlock all the trait lines so that I’d have enough saved up for the elite class. Oh well, I guess otherwise people would feel screwed over for having spent all their hero points on “useless” skills and traits they never use.

Sytherek.7689:

PopeUrban.2578:

Sytherek.7689:

PopeUrban.2578:

Sytherek.7689:

Menadena.7482:

fireflyry.7023:

I’m on the fence with this one but Anet does itself no favors with it’s BWE’s and using this as a selling point for pre-purchase. To me this is the catalyst of much of this complaint and I’m still of the opinion beta testing should be done by beta testers, not used as a sales pitch to customers.

I’ve played a fair few games where at the starting level your a fully kitted out uber-beast of death slaying everything in sight in some huge awe-inspiring battle with all skills unlocked and all weapons blazing full bore. Wahoo this game is friggin amazing!!!

end flashback/dream sequence

You wake up at level one naked holding a wet noodle realizing it will be a LONG time before you feel that way again.

From what I can garner this is exactly what has happened here with giving players everything for nothing to play with, then taking it away. Sure might work ok in an offline RPG but in this genre it just seems to kitten a lot of people off.

It is the same reason (although partly in reverse) of why I skipped most of the BWE content. I wanted to be surprised by the new stuff and I knew I would be getting a good chunk of it after paying $100 for the kittening thing. Not only would I be seeing all the content, but it would be ready for prime time. Now I wish I had done as much of the beta events as I could because I will not see the things I had a taste of for a VERY long time. Especially on all my characters. Oh well, at least I get to play with the revenant specs.

Like someone else said earlier, there is not a match between what new specs I was looking forward to the most with what existing specs I like. In fact, the new spec I like the most is on a spec I loathe and hoped it would reinvigorate the profession. What is the point of my first HOT experience being with a profession I can not stand? I would think they would want people to have as good an impression of the jungle as possible.

Exactly. For me, the new Reaper spec looks fun for my languishing necro. I was looking forward to playing her again with the Reaper’s skills and traits.

But because I wasn’t happy with her existing specs, I never did world completion on her, and she has few hero points. So I’m forced to play her thru HoT with a spec I don’t like to get what I was looking forward to. Where’s the fun in that?

Now, on my mesmer, I like her current spec, like Chronomancer, and have 133 hero points. She might be fun in HoT as I earn hero points.

Funny thing about my Ranger main — she is my only character with World completion, and I have no interest in Druid. I’ll spend the points because they’re there, maybe get a skin.

My other characters are so far behind, I probably won’t play them. My poor engineer has almost no hero points, and like my necro, I was hoping to jump right into the Elite spec.

So I think I’ll be playing my mesmer, if I play at all. At this point, I’m actively looking for a new game.

That’s unfortunate, but the whole point of the system is to add depth and options to characters people, presumably, already like rather than replace characters they hate.

The addition of the revnant is the intended “replacement character”

Like, I see what you’re getting at, but it’s a bit like complaining that characters suck at level 1 and are more fun to play at 80.

If you don’t like the game, that’s a valid opinion, but the whole idea was to add progression similar to new secondary classes and skill trainers in GW1. Obviously if you don’t like necro, and like the reaper, it may be a pain, but it’s highly unlikely you’d be a fan of anything post-reaper as you don’t actually like the class as a class, right?

No, I love the pre-HoT necromancer concept and design. I don’t like how weak it is in so many ways. Reaper fixes that problem. I like the class as it’s being updated.

Consider this… I love my Ranger main, and have 0 interest in the druid. So the 214 hero points I have sitting on her is a waste.

Now, If ANET gave me a way to transfer hero points between characters, I’d be happie r. I did the work, just on the wrong character (years ago).

Not really a waste, think of it as a bank. Knowing you don’t want druid means you have those points in the bank for the next e-spec, right? Maybe a petless ranger spec if we’re lucky!

The next expansion will likely need 4000 points to get its specialization, if ANET follows its current model.

Actually, if they follow the current model of elite specs being exclusive choices to one another and requiring you to first level to 80 (and thus have all the hero points required to unlock all core class specs and skills) the logical assumption is that the next one will cost exactly the same amount, and give exactly one weapon, one trait line, one heal, one elite, four utilities, some sort of class mechanic change, and two skins.

That’s pretty much exactly how they told us the system is designed anyway, moving forward in time to when there are 2+ elite specs to choose from.

I honestly think they should have just killed all plans for the rev and released HoT with 2 elite specs for each class so people weren’t so confused. Rev mechanics would have made a fine guardian elite spec with very few adjustments.

Black Box.9312:

PopeUrban.2578:

They have been posting this stuff in blogs for months dude.

They’re not devaluing existing content. They’re setting a precedent for elite specs as relevant to content

An elite spec cost 400 hero points. This is a hard number we know now. This is an inherant part of that system. HoT challenges grant 10 because they wanted to ensure people could actually play nothing but HoT to gain them.

Of course it isn’t designed to allow you to entirely skip progression in new maps. That would be ridiculous. People would literally be saying “why would I waste my time doing hero challenges that don’t give me anything?” and the thread would be just as long and angst ridden as this one.

In stead they built a system in which mastering all of the optional core points means you can skip half of the new ones. Moving forward, you’ll likely see that system continue. You will never have enough hero points to instantly unlock an elite spec, but you’ll always have options in terms of how much of the content you want to do.

Like core world completion because it’s easy and there are more zones? Fantastic! That means you can skip half of the HoT challenges.

Don’t like the first elite spec? FANTASTIC save your ero points for the next one.

Making a comparison between the value of core content and HoT in terms of character progression is simply flawed thinking. Core content is intentionally unchanged, it is intentionally easier, and it is intentionally paced for leveling first and world completion as a secondary goal. HoT, and all content going forward is specifically built, progression wise, around the elite spec system.

Core specs aren’t considered optional. They’re considered “mastering your core class”

Elite specs, however, are optional and exclusive to one another

If you’re mad about devaluing old content, why aren’t you mad that taking an elite spec makes you drop a trait line? Why aren’t you mad every time they release another stat set for gear? Will you be mad when the next elite spec releases and you have to choose between them?

Having ten point challenges do nothing to devalue old content. You need to be 80 to get in to the jungle. If you’re 80, you have your core specs completed. now you can choose to do a lot of simple challenges, a lesser number of harder ones, or a mixture between the two. The entire system is designed so that the core content retains value by making sure all those extra hero point actually do something for you character besides being traded to miyani.

A HoT hero challenge is worth 10 points. A base-game hero challenge is worth 1 point. For anyone who hasn’t already completed the existing challenges, they serve absolutely no purpose. Why waste your time doing things for 1 point, when you can just go to the jungle and do things for 10 points? “Devaluing” doesn’t get any more black and white than that.

The reason for this, was to make it that anyone who just wanted to focus on jungle content, and not core tyria can still earn the hp needed to gain all that on a charcter. If you did core tyria points, you have like 200 hp or so bonus, giving you quite a good head start. It also unsure what all HP will be used for atm. If you needed to do all 200+hp in core for every character people be upset. People are already upset that they need to do the few in the jungle. Besides, was not the core HP sorta devauled when they made level 80 enough points to max your self anyways?

Bettik.4982:

for open world PvE, that’s fair enough, but even so it should have been clearly communicated to the player base, e.g. “guys, if an existing character has world completion, or more than x hero challenges completed in the open world, then you’ll gain access to the elite specialisation; but you’ll still have to complete y more to fully unlock it because that’s where we’re going with this”.

but it wasn’t.

Yup, this is the big mistake they made. It honestly feels like there was some kind of shift recently, though. Within the past week, and not much further back, there has been a LOT of communication on the forums. It’s possible that until that point they wanted to but were restricted for some reason, then realized suddenly after the restriction was lifted, “Oh crap, we still need to tell them this part.”

Still, a blog post would have been very useful a couple months ago. People gripe about the grind, but if they had the ability to do that “grind” over a couple months they’d be more willing. It also would have been nice to implement that WvW thing before HoT.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Those same people who screamed will end up defending the system in another half a year if anything comes up to change it.

The only reason to defend a system that you disagree with, is because it’s the lesser of 2 evils. That is the only reason you’d see me defend it in a year.

Welcome to the forums. I applaud your current lack of cynicism.

Needs more sarcasm, which text doesn’t provide well, because I am quite cynical, most of my posts reflect that. Sarcastic too, but again text doesn’t show it.

fireflyry.7023:

I’ve read some pretty valid and well put points from both sides of the fence, no need to derail it with fictional over-exaggeration and belittlement.

People are already over exaggerating with the HP grind.
Actualy, GW2 is the only MMO that allow you to get your BiS gear BEFORE the expac launch.
No level cap increases. No level locking behind instanced dungeons.
Insta lvl 80 revenant with tomes.

The counterpart is… HP. Consider it as the new XP for your elite spec. What’s wrong with that?

Ok, don’t want to sound like I’m complaining too much as I understand this should be kept “elite.” The only thing I don’t like is that it looks like I’m going to have to play through most/all of the content before I’m able to use the elite specs. By the time I get it, I’ll be done with most of the stuff. Sure, I could then use it for raids and WvW, but that is about it except to repeat content I’ve already done.

Then again, maybe I’m wrong. I’m really hoping that the skins take up half or so of the HP required. I’m fine with that as they are just skins, not playable mechanics and skills.

In short, I want to play my elite specs, not just achieve them and then have little left to actually do with them.

Nausicca.6038:

fireflyry.7023:

I’ve read some pretty valid and well put points from both sides of the fence, no need to derail it with fictional over-exaggeration and belittlement.

People are already over exaggerating with the HP grind.
Actualy, GW2 is the only MMO that allow you to get your BiS gear BEFORE the expac launch.
No level cap increases. No level locking behind instanced dungeons.
Insta lvl 80 revenant with tomes.

The counterpart is… HP. Consider it as the new XP for your elite spec. What’s wrong with that?

Because it is inherently different from XP prior to 80. You could do pretty much anything you like to earn that XP. This HP requirement forces you to do one thing——map exploration grinding.

Nausicca.6038:

fireflyry.7023:

I’ve read some pretty valid and well put points from both sides of the fence, no need to derail it with fictional over-exaggeration and belittlement.

People are already over exaggerating with the HP grind.
Actualy, GW2 is the only MMO that allow you to get your BiS gear BEFORE the expac launch.
No level cap increases. No level locking behind instanced dungeons.
Insta lvl 80 revenant with tomes.

The counterpart is… HP. Consider it as the new XP for your elite spec. What’s wrong with that?

Technically BiS would be the legendary gear solely because of the ability to stat swap on the fly makes it marginally better then Ascended because of convenience for any environment that requires different builds such as raids.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Bettik.4982:

for open world PvE, that’s fair enough, but even so it should have been clearly communicated to the player base, e.g. “guys, if an existing character has world completion, or more than x hero challenges completed in the open world, then you’ll gain access to the elite specialisation; but you’ll still have to complete y more to fully unlock it because that’s where we’re going with this”.

but it wasn’t.

Yup, this is the big mistake they made. It honestly feels like there was some kind of shift recently, though. Within the past week, and not much further back, there has been a LOT of communication on the forums. It’s possible that until that point they wanted to but were restricted for some reason, then realized suddenly after the restriction was lifted, “Oh crap, we still need to tell them this part.”

Still, a blog post would have been very useful a couple months ago. People gripe about the grind, but if they had the ability to do that “grind” over a couple months they’d be more willing. It also would have been nice to implement that WvW thing before HoT.

Yes, agree the 400 figure is probably recent – data-mining had different values. Anet clearly told us what the expac wasn’t (no level cap, no gear grind), but they also didn’t say what it was…

Pezz.4758:

please dont take this as rage or hate or anything but i gotta vent im a little ….meh.

So i main necro, followed the scrapper hype all through the info releases. After trying it on the beta weekend i was hooked. I had a partially leveled engy, so i finished it, grinded out all his skills, all his exotics, some ascended, crafting , bought skins went HAM.

now i find out, to even play the elite spec, i have to grind ANOTHER at least 170 points.

So doing the math, thats either basically doing map complete now in 3 days to find enough to unlock it. OR waiting till HoT, where they are 10 points each. BUT assuming 5-10 per map like currents maps, i will be half way through HoT open world content BEFORE even being able to use the spec properly.

Like i said im not raging but i cant lie, kinda killed the hype for release when i know its just going to be a grind to even START playing.
“Play how you want” ha, ya right.

EDIT:: Fixed quote… Stupid cellphone :P
In advance of the HoT Release, I have been running JUST hero points on the chars I know I want elites on first. Don’t do the hearts/ If dual monitor type /wiki “Name of Zone Here” then go to interactive map. Hide the vistas on the map and just figure out best path to hit all HPs the fastest, then move on to next map.