Guild Wars 2

I think there are only two way to solve the problem with the points.
First, the easy way. Reduce the amount needed to about 200 so you have the chance to get it through HOT Content, core maps and even faster in WvW, what you like.

But if anet hold on the 400 Points, they need to change something.
Make it possible to get all points solo, so no heavy champ or meta event gates. As it may be ok for now, but the time comes when the maps are empty except some farming spots and it would be extremly difficult to get the points. And maybe some changes to the masteries like change itzel 4 and 2 so you don´t have to grind up through “not intersting” things like acces to merchants to make your way through the jungle. And make all masteries “worldwide” so you can level your glider in dungeons and so on. And fasten up the WvW part a bit. Then it even favors the explorer type of players, but maybe don`t hurt the others so much.

The easiest option like some people have said is to put hero points into a vendor, so we can use currencies (laurels, spirit shards, badges of honor etc) instead of doing gated content that people are felt like they’re being forced into because it’s more efficient than RNG drops in WvW.

Just please don’t put them in only a language barred itzel merchant.

PvE is very boring…

WvW and PvP is what makes this game good.

My 2 cents:

Mastery level is fine.

But gating specilization behind mastery is not.

Many hero challenges are not doable without mastery level.

Please reconsider the linear progression in the track . Traits should be unlocked altogether otherwise the specialization is useless.

Hero point requirement for alternate characters also need reduction. It is not the difficulty but it is tiresome to run all 9 characters in the same map again. Hero point should be awarded in all activities, like crafting, adventure and pvp alike.

RedBaron.6058:

PvE is very boring…

WvW and PvP is what makes this game good.

In your opinion

Decado.9304:

Crunk n monkey.3749:

I don’t get the argument here. If you completed map comp, like I did on several characters before HoT came out. You already had around 200 extra hero points saved up. So when HoT came out, you had a 200 point lead to blow on the specialization. So all you really needed was 200 more. I started on Reaper with only 4 HP, and in 4 days I’ve gotten up to 85% done and have 75 HP more until Elite Specialization, and truthfully I feel I can have that before Halloween. Doesn’t feel like that terrible of a grind considering the grind for XP with the mastery system and it certainly isn’t going to take a long time.

I don’t know why I said map comp, all you really needed was all the Hero Challenges done in the game.

The only class/specialization I feel sorry for is the Revanant/Herald. They have to start out crisp and from the beginning, unlike the other classes that could have an early jump on the specialization.

And those who dont or very rarely pve?

Well – that leaves PvP or WvW, doesn’kitten

In PvP the elite specs are unlocked – no hassle.

In WvW you get those little tokens you can trade – I ran around EoTM for a bit with my revenant to get a few levels and I made 12 tokens in that time = 12 hero points I can use for that,

Actually it might be faster via WvW than via HoT unless you already have the masteries unlocked to get to the HPs.

We would be more willing to grind out the mastery XP if we had full access to elite specs while doing them.

HoT mobs are hard enough – why the hell would anyone run a kitten elite spec build missing traits and utilities through it?

HtFde.3856:

In WvW you get those little tokens you can trade – I ran around EoTM for a bit with my revenant to get a few levels and I made 12 tokens in that time = 12 hero points I can use for that,

Actually it might be faster via WvW than via HoT unless you already have the masteries unlocked to get to the HPs.

Thanks for info, for sure I ll share it with friends who were afraid about PvE grind!! ^^
puffs into wvw

Chemical Rush.2569:

Nash.2681:

Thousands of replies already, didn’t read them all. So much was already said, so I keep it short:
People actually payed hard earned money for the expansion. Many of them looking forward to play the new elite specs right away. Then HoT goes live and they all get slapped in their face with a harsh “Kitten you! How dare you wanting to try out the new stuff without grinding first! What, you already got old Tyria complete and yet don’t want to rush in the new maps right away?! Down in the dust you filthy heretic!”

As if having to grind exp for the masteries wasn’t boring enough already (why oh why that ultra-lazy design decision? Why not some sort of skillbased challenges? E. g. to learn gilder basics, talk to an NPC who tells you how gliding works, just to give you a training glider and send you down a short training track, may be some sort of small hill with the simple task “glide down and land on the marked spot”. Once done, you have learned the glider basics. That’s a very simple example but I think you get the idea. Ofc, the more advanced a mastery progress goes, the more difficult the tasks should be.).
Right now, I so regret having spent 200 € for 2x HoT (for my wife and myself). At least I learned a lesson- good old GW1 Arena.Net is definetly and irretrievably dead and I will never ever pay a single € to them for pre-order again.

Here here!

Also, you might look into trying Wildstar until they fix this crap. It won’t cost you anything to try it, unlike this horrid expansion.

Heh, funny you mention Wildstar, since I already started to think about doing what you suggested. Only thing that kept me from trying out WS ‘til today is that ultra-colorful-comic style, which is so not my personal taste.
But I might be returning into DotA2 for a while and the new Battlefront is close to release aswell (though the required driver version somehow doesn’t work with GW2, but kitten, since it’s close to no fun playing GW2 right now anyway, who cares).

castlemanic.3198:

Sylent.3165:

63 pages……this needs fixed prettt badly.

Again anet, simply adding the option to a vendor to trade spirit shards for HP would work

oh my god this is actually brilliant and needed. +1ed to oblivion.

Another idea I would support.

It’s not that several solutions don’t exist, some of them very simple. The spirit shard solution involves adding the WvW HP items to Miyagi for shards. Easy, simple, problem solved.

I personally like the expansion and have very little to complain about. I’m not a PvE player, I mostly play WvW and PvP. Even I have been enjoying the new PvE maps and I generally hate PvE lol.. They’re beautifully designed and have a lot of fun aspects to them.

The new WvW maps are massive, a lot more places to fight and a lot more room to travel. Defending is made easier which is something that needed to happen. I love the automatic upgrades, but I think they should be slowed down, they upgrade too fast.

Only a few things I would change personally:
1. WvW objective should upgrade slower.
2. The amount of hero points needed for a specialization is too high, being a primarily WvW player, I had to go through all the PvE land maps and get all of the hero points then go to the new maps and get a lot of hero points. It was a ton of work to get my Chronomancer and Berserker specializations done, it took up my whole weekend of grinding PvE to do it..
3. Gliding should totally be possible in the new WvW maps. That is the best new mechanic in the game, it would be so cool to see it in the new maps and maybe even EOTM.
4. Solo players in the new maps are punished for being solo too harshly, most of the new hero points are impossible to obtain if you’re alone. I spent more time waiting for help to get hero points than I spent finding them lol.
5. The WvW Heroic rewards from ranking up are soulbound, these should be account bound. I have to be versatile on the classes that I play in WvW, I can’t always play what I want to play, since my rank is account bound, I think anything coming out of the chest should be too.

Otherwise, I must say kudos to Arenanet. I had my doubts but I think my money was well spent. The new specializations are a blast to play, the new maps are beautiful, the PvE is more fun than it ever was in the old maps.

Sure there are bugs, its a huge new patch – it is to be expected. There are some things that were “by design” that should be changed though.

HtFde.3856:

Decado.9304:

Crunk n monkey.3749:

I don’t get the argument here. If you completed map comp, like I did on several characters before HoT came out. You already had around 200 extra hero points saved up. So when HoT came out, you had a 200 point lead to blow on the specialization. So all you really needed was 200 more. I started on Reaper with only 4 HP, and in 4 days I’ve gotten up to 85% done and have 75 HP more until Elite Specialization, and truthfully I feel I can have that before Halloween. Doesn’t feel like that terrible of a grind considering the grind for XP with the mastery system and it certainly isn’t going to take a long time.

I don’t know why I said map comp, all you really needed was all the Hero Challenges done in the game.

The only class/specialization I feel sorry for is the Revanant/Herald. They have to start out crisp and from the beginning, unlike the other classes that could have an early jump on the specialization.

And those who dont or very rarely pve?

Well – that leaves PvP or WvW, doesn’kitten

In PvP the elite specs are unlocked – no hassle.

In WvW you get those little tokens you can trade – I ran around EoTM for a bit with my revenant to get a few levels and I made 12 tokens in that time = 12 hero points I can use for that,

Actually it might be faster via WvW than via HoT unless you already have the masteries unlocked to get to the HPs.

I know, it was a rhetorical question to just another player who automatically assumes PvE is the only game mode and everyone has 100% map comp

You can also trade in tournament tickets in for wxp points at the laurel trader to level up quickly, handy if you don’t like those reward skins.

200 wvw levels per elite spec is a exceptionally harsh tho, and lets be honest eotm is a cheesefest of kittenness, i play to fight players not doors

Heroics Notary Disabled? Anyone else noticed this?

Update: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Notary-and-Notarized-Scrolls-temp-disabled

So now there is no way to earn HP’s other than PVE :’)

Decado.9304:

You can also trade in tournament tickets in for wxp points at the laurel trader to level up quickly, handy if you don’t like those reward skins.

oh apparently its not meant to be able to do this and that’s why the notary was disabled

my apologies for suggesting it, didn’t realise this was a bug

jozefka.7256:

what if i have like 5% map completion and a level 80 character and i want to try the elite in HoT? I first have to collect enough points to even activate the elite and after that i won’t be nearly as powerful as to play HoT with it. it doesn’t help that all hero points in HoT require multiple people.. what happened to “we want you to play the game the way you want to”?

It amaze me how many people consider that Central Tyria is rubbish, leftovers, a waste.
You only did 5% of Central Tyria and want to go to the Heart of Maguuma now?
It’s not because a new content is available that the old one is disposable.
You have a whole world to discover, to explore, to conquer, to learn from.

Heart of Maguuma is amazing, but there still places of Central Tyria that are amazing, wonderful, dangerous.
Central Tyria is still part of the game. If you don’t want to do it, it’s up to you.
Do not stain the game with your laziness, crying for things to be delivered in an express silver plate.
There are already many ways to obtain elite skills. Central Tyria solo challenges, Heart of Maguuma non-fighting challenges, Heart of Maguuma boss fighting.

You had to play at the game, making your character levels to 80 and unlock its full potential before Heart of Thorns.
Now, you have to play at the game, making your character unlock masteries and elite specialisation.

Same thing! And it is not longer! It’s even less time costly. Less crying, more playing.
While you were here, complaining on not having everything instantly, people already unlocked the last elite skill of their specialisation.
Yes, you can play the way you want. But, you’re not playing, you’re crying!

Without going through 60+ pages of thread, I’ll just toss in my 2 cents: I have only one problem with how elite specs work, which is that the HoT Hero Challenges aren’t soloable. I’ve already had the situation of getting to one and then finding out it could not be completed, which is frustrating. Can’t the champions get scaled down for single players?

Not going to wade through 64 pages of comments. But here’s my 2 cents on the subject;
Excellent implementation, ArenaNet!
_____________

I, for one, applaud that you incentivize team work, by interacting with other players for a large quantity of these Hero Challenges. I mean, this is an MMORPG. Why in the world would we not interact on some basic level with others? I’ve had no issues finding people to help by asking in /map, and have at this point 104 Hero Points beyond having fully unlocked my Chronomancer on Saturday. I still have 10 Hero Challenges that I have not completed in various Heart of Thorns maps, for another 100 Hero Points, meaning there’s a 204 Hero Point surplus (in my case, and for most pre-existing Lv.80 players) of them. If x Hero Point is too difficult and/or you can’t find it, move on, find another one. There’s more than enough to get yourself maxed out.

Why should the Elite Specialization be unlocked without any form of effort? If you play sPvP, this is not a issue regardless, you got full access as-is. For World vs. World, you can unlock Hero Points entirely through the game mode, using the Proofs of Heroics you get from ranking up (not a difficult task). It’s 4 days since release, and people want to have everything completed already? That would be a terrible expansion. This is not grindy. It’s not gated. It’s just basic progression. I was perfectly able to finish up with my Hero Point collecting on the second day, and that was easily done by interacting with others and/or tagging up to draw people to a Hero Challenge (a valid strategy if you have it available).

When compared to your average MMORPG expansion, at the very least ArenaNet took the road of horizontal progression, rather than vertical. All our past efforts (except Guild investments.. and I am really annoyed by this Anet—you threw several HUNDREDS of my Gold out the window by replacing, instead of expanding) is not voided due to the expansion being implemented. This is a good system. It gives you some reason to do these challenges with strangers and friends, beyond Map Completion (which is bugged if you have 100% Core completion, Anet, and don’t grant rewards—it does grant rewards if you don’t have 100% in the Core game though).

There is no GRIND here. At all. You do one Hero Challenge, move on to the next, etc.—you are not grinding away repeatedly on one batch of enemies, over and over. Don’t throw the word grinding out there if it does not freaking apply. Although this topic is not about it, that applies for Masteries too. You play the game, or you choose to grind. There’s a MASSIVE difference here. You can grind, but then you have no right to complain and say it is a grind. How you choose to play is up to you. You can do each event once or twice just fine and get high ranks of the Maguuma Mastery lines. Just remember to kill enemies here and there. Gather. Uncover the map. Again, kill enemies. You’ll be surprised how fast it fills if you kill some foes now and again.

TL;DR: Ask in /map if you want to complete a Hero Challenge. It’s a MMORPG, why wouldn’t you socialize at least on a minor level? Don’t get obsessed about completing a specific one, there’s a surplus to get your Elite Specialization fully unlocked. There’s four maps. It’s perfectly possible to use a Elite Specialization before you unlock every Trait and Utility Skill, but that said, you don’t have to use a Elite Specialization to play in the Heart of Thorns maps. But most importantly; It’s been FOUR DAYS since release. Not even a freaking week!

Decado.9304:

[…] lets be honest eotm is a cheesefest of kittenness, i play to fight players not doors

Even in normal WvW you usually have to fight a door (or wall) to get at the players

ANET you guys did an awesome job, finally a some challenging content to let me feast on. I can now communicate with others in an MMORPG not a freaking cellphone kitten game that is way to easy, we can group up kill somewhat more difficult mobs, having awesome fights also in WvW against zoneblobs with only 30 of us. Its really great even if the elite specialisation takes time, so what? Finally something TO DO IN A GAME!!! i mean all games nowadays are so cheesy easy that people complain about that its to hard.
Stop complaining and start learning HOW TO PLAY A GAME!!! i mean learn to play guys, seriously learn 2 play. The new content is more then 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 and jeej loot. I have again already so many just bad players having difficulties with this, i am like are they having thought processing problems? People cannot even dodge an melee attack from an vampire bat champ….
This is more of an case of Anet did it right and the players are doing it wrong! Anet did a awesome job!

Once again if it comes out that over 50% of the playerbase of this game find this content to hard, then those over 50% are bad players, bad bronze 5 LoL players that shouldnt even game. I mean jumping and dodging is hard???

Kulvar.1239:

jozefka.7256:

what if i have like 5% map completion and a level 80 character and i want to try the elite in HoT? I first have to collect enough points to even activate the elite and after that i won’t be nearly as powerful as to play HoT with it. it doesn’t help that all hero points in HoT require multiple people.. what happened to “we want you to play the game the way you want to”?

It amaze me how many people consider that Central Tyria is rubbish, leftovers, a waste.
You only did 5% of Central Tyria and want to go to the Heart of Maguuma now?
It’s not because a new content is available that the old one is disposable.
You have a whole world to discover, to explore, to conquer, to learn from.

Heart of Maguuma is amazing, but there still places of Central Tyria that are amazing, wonderful, dangerous.
Central Tyria is still part of the game. If you don’t want to do it, it’s up to you.
Do not stain the game with your laziness, crying for things to be delivered in an express silver plate.
There are already many ways to obtain elite skills. Central Tyria solo challenges, Heart of Maguuma non-fighting challenges, Heart of Maguuma boss fighting.

You had to play at the game, making your character levels to 80 and unlock its full potential before Heart of Thorns.
Now, you have to play at the game, making your character unlock masteries and elite specialisation.

Same thing! And it is not longer! It’s even less time costly. Less crying, more playing.
While you were here, complaining on not having everything instantly, people already unlocked the last elite skill of their specialisation.
Yes, you can play the way you want. But, you’re not playing, you’re crying!

Your reasoning is wrong (and it has the same logic fault as EoTN had) – if I have to play the base game before I can actually use the Expansion why then should I buy the expansion right off instead of just the base game and then see if I like it and get the expansion …

Guess why they changed the deal for new players ….

And now – as with EoTN – they have to deal with people asking why they bought something that they cannot use right off. It does not make sense. In EoTN they got it right by lowering the level to 10 and offering an upsacling which made the content acsessible much faster. I am a tad surprised to see them fall back into old habits …

snarfrificus.4230:

The new content is more then 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 and jeej loot.

It is? Not that I noticed – the scaling is better than in Orr but not much. Get enough people and it is exactly that … 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …. loooooot. The sole exception I found so far is this harpy thing with the shield mechanism you have to break by throwing eggs … that was a welcome surprise.

The content is challenging for regular parties size 5, I agree – but as soon as you get a zerg it is just like Orr … except that the loot in Orr is better

HtFde.3856:

snarfrificus.4230:

The new content is more then 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 and jeej loot.

It is? Not that I noticed – the scaling is better than in Orr but not much. Get enough people and it is exactly that … 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …. loooooot. The sole exception I found so far is this harpy thing with the shield mechanism you have to break by throwing eggs … that was a welcome surprise.

The content is challenging for regular parties size 5, I agree – but as soon as you get a zerg it is just like or … except that the loot in Orr is better

Lol i have seen complete zergs wipe by one champion mob or getting 2 hitted by the adds and die. Zergs doesnt matter the mobs also scale up so much that most people that come there just die and cant deal with it.

I hope they will make retrospective wvw rewards. i dant realy do 1000 more lvls just to unlock specs on my alts

I am going to attempt to offer both insight into my own experience with the expansion and also offer suggestions on how to resolve most of the issues that people are having with HoT.

I am what you would refer to as the casual GW2 player. I come home from work and log in to the game to spend a few hours to relax. What I like about GW2 is that it is ACCESSIBLE to nearly anyone. I mostly play PVE with my wife. I choose not to play other game modes because of the PVP “RAWR I KILLZ YOU ALL” mentality of it and I don’t do dungeons mostly because of the “lolz get better gear. kick.” situations. So either I play the content solo, or my wife and I play together.

I have a few alts that I use because sometimes it just feels like a thief sort of night. I do not have world completion on said thief because honestly I don’t play it very well. During the BW though, I found that the Daredevil spec for the thief was right up my alley. I was taking down mobs in Orr solo. So I pre-purchased 3 copies of the expansion for myself, my wife, and her sister so we could all enjoy it together.

Now for the actual experience. I will have to admit that i ragequit the first night playing HoT. At first I was angry with the requirements for unlocking the Daredevil spec. I purchased the expansion with the hopes of being able to do world completion with the Daredevil spec or any other spec on an alt that I like to play. In reality, I have to do world completion beforehand and then hope to make it to all the Hero Points in the new area to get them before I die on any alt that I’d like to unlock. By that time, however, I’ve already finished what I wanted the spec for in the first place.

I’ve moved on past anger into just simple disappointment. I’m disappointed in Anet’s handling of something I was looking forward to. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not feeling “entitled” to having things handed to me. I just feel like it could have been handled better.

Which brings me to suggestions on how to fix the issues.

Hero Points
Remove the 5 minute timer. I was soloing one of the champs just fine. Had him down to 1/4 health and noticed I had 30 seconds left. Without the timer, people may be able to complete a few more of them.
Also a possibility: Make the Hero Points that spawn champions have an option. You can select either to go for 5 Hero Points and it spawns some of the new veterans or go for the full 10 Hero Points if you think you can handle it.

Elite Specs
In GW1 you could buy sets of spells and skills from the game to use. Do the same for Elite Specializations. Allow people to fully unlock the Elites of their choice with Gems. I think 700 – 1000 Gems would be reasonable. Offer this as an option to the Hero Point route. Think about it. I know that I would gladly spend that in order to play the way that I want to. There’s an extra $100 to $200 just from me alone. Now some might say that is pay to win. I disagree. That is paying to play a game that I enjoy and I don’t mind spending money on.

Masteries
The XP grind is real. Anet, you did a great job on the imaginative Masteries in the new area. I don’t mind having to unlock them to be able to explore. But please let the events and other activities in the new areas give a little more XP.

All in all, I want to enjoy HoT. I really want to like it. It’s just hard when you’re frustrated over it’s implementation. I sincerely hope that Anet is considering a few tweaks to how the content is handled. With a few nudges here and there it could be a great addition to a game that I already love.

ANet is perfect. Will never change anything.

Its just nice ANet didnt raise the level cap for HoT, no wait, they just gave every char something else to level instead… Did this game suddenly become an enormous grind?

Has a ed actually responded to this. I just feel like they don’t care enough

HtFde.3856:

Your reasoning is wrong – if I have to play the base game before I can actually use the Expansion why then should I buy the expansion right off instead of just the base game and then see if I like it and get the expansion …

Guess why they changed the deal for new players ….

And now they have to deal with people asking why they bought something that they cannot use right off. It does not make sense.

Are you really suggesting to cripple HoT content so that you can go to Verdant Brink from level 2 fresh new character? o_O

You’re not forced to play the core game, but do not complain it’s hard to directly jump on HoT then.
You do school before university.
You need to be high level with good gear before going to the Heart of Maguuma.
Heart of Thorns is the continuation of Central Tyria, not a replacement.

You can choose between unlocking Elite from a mix of HoT and CT or full HoT.
Pick what you want.

The expansion name explains everything…it is supposed to be Thorny…

kragik.4157:

I am going to attempt to offer both insight into my own experience with the expansion and also offer suggestions on how to resolve most of the issues that people are having with HoT.

I am what you would refer to as the casual GW2 player. I come home from work and log in to the game to spend a few hours to relax. What I like about GW2 is that it is ACCESSIBLE to nearly anyone. I mostly play PVE with my wife. I choose not to play other game modes because of the PVP “RAWR I KILLZ YOU ALL” mentality of it and I don’t do dungeons mostly because of the “lolz get better gear. kick.” situations. So either I play the content solo, or my wife and I play together.

I have a few alts that I use because sometimes it just feels like a thief sort of night. I do not have world completion on said thief because honestly I don’t play it very well. During the BW though, I found that the Daredevil spec for the thief was right up my alley. I was taking down mobs in Orr solo. So I pre-purchased 3 copies of the expansion for myself, my wife, and her sister so we could all enjoy it together.

Now for the actual experience. I will have to admit that i ragequit the first night playing HoT. At first I was angry with the requirements for unlocking the Daredevil spec. I purchased the expansion with the hopes of being able to do world completion with the Daredevil spec or any other spec on an alt that I like to play. In reality, I have to do world completion beforehand and then hope to make it to all the Hero Points in the new area to get them before I die on any alt that I’d like to unlock. By that time, however, I’ve already finished what I wanted the spec for in the first place.

I’ve moved on past anger into just simple disappointment. I’m disappointed in Anet’s handling of something I was looking forward to. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not feeling “entitled” to having things handed to me. I just feel like it could have been handled better.

Which brings me to suggestions on how to fix the issues.

Hero Points
Remove the 5 minute timer. I was soloing one of the champs just fine. Had him down to 1/4 health and noticed I had 30 seconds left. Without the timer, people may be able to complete a few more of them.
Also a possibility: Make the Hero Points that spawn champions have an option. You can select either to go for 5 Hero Points and it spawns some of the new veterans or go for the full 10 Hero Points if you think you can handle it.

Elite Specs
In GW1 you could buy sets of spells and skills from the game to use. Do the same for Elite Specializations. Allow people to fully unlock the Elites of their choice with Gems. I think 700 – 1000 Gems would be reasonable. Offer this as an option to the Hero Point route. Think about it. I know that I would gladly spend that in order to play the way that I want to. There’s an extra $100 to $200 just from me alone. Now some might say that is pay to win. I disagree. That is paying to play a game that I enjoy and I don’t mind spending money on.

Masteries
The XP grind is real. Anet, you did a great job on the imaginative Masteries in the new area. I don’t mind having to unlock them to be able to explore. But please let the events and other activities in the new areas give a little more XP.

All in all, I want to enjoy HoT. I really want to like it. It’s just hard when you’re frustrated over it’s implementation. I sincerely hope that Anet is considering a few tweaks to how the content is handled. With a few nudges here and there it could be a great addition to a game that I already love.

Though I agree with you at how badly they handled e specs. I really hope they don’t sell an e spec unlock at the gems store. Are you kidding me. I already payed for the expansion. Also I’m with you on this one. I really tried so hard to like this expansion but I couldnt even play for an hour with out rage quitting. It kind of fells like running into a wall repeatedly.

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

It’s not a grind when players enjoy it, in HoT you are forced to get HP by either pve map completion, or through a wvw ktrain. It’s all about perception, people perceive getting hero points as playing the game in a way they do not want to, and oftentimes repeatedly as they have multiple characters.

So yes, HoT is in fact a grind to a large number of players, to say otherwise is just plain dumb.

hurrado.2346:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

It’s not a grind when players enjoy it, in HoT you are forced to get HP by either pve map completion, or through a wvw ktrain. It’s all about perception, people perceive getting hero points as playing the game in a way they do not want to, and oftentimes repeatedly as they have multiple characters.

So yes, HoT is in fact a grind to a large number of players, to say otherwise is just plain dumb.

Grinding is grinding even if you enjoy it or not, AA is something i also enjoy, but its still a grind even if i enjoy the whole grind.
It is grinding no matter what, so guys like you have nothing to complain on.

hurrado.2346:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

It’s not a grind when players enjoy it, in HoT you are forced to get HP by either pve map completion, or through a wvw ktrain. It’s all about perception, people perceive getting hero points as playing the game in a way they do not want to, and oftentimes repeatedly as they have multiple characters.

So yes, HoT is in fact a grind to a large number of players, to say otherwise is just plain dumb.

Are you talking about masteries?

hurrado.2346:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

It’s not a grind when players enjoy it, in HoT you are forced to get HP by either pve map completion, or through a wvw ktrain. It’s all about perception, people perceive getting hero points as playing the game in a way they do not want to, and oftentimes repeatedly as they have multiple characters.

So yes, HoT is in fact a grind to a large number of players, to say otherwise is just plain dumb.

I would be much, much happier with the xpac if they were to just introduce a way to get hero points that was not locked behind group/mastery content. So long as I could do them solo and on all my current characters I would not even mind the grinding.

And TBH if they ever want me to purchase another character slot, they may want to rethink this whole debacle.

hurrado.2346:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

It’s not a grind when players enjoy it, in HoT you are forced to get HP by either pve map completion, or through a wvw ktrain. It’s all about perception, people perceive getting hero points as playing the game in a way they do not want to, and oftentimes repeatedly as they have multiple characters.

So yes, HoT is in fact a grind to a large number of players, to say otherwise is just plain dumb.

And to another large number of players it’s all a grind like OPO said. So…

It’s probably more “plainly dumb” to think that any company can make a game that can satisfy everyone’s expectations. You obviously expected them to satisfy yours to the detriment of others.

Kulvar.1239:

HtFde.3856:

Your reasoning is wrong – if I have to play the base game before I can actually use the Expansion why then should I buy the expansion right off instead of just the base game and then see if I like it and get the expansion …

Guess why they changed the deal for new players ….

And now they have to deal with people asking why they bought something that they cannot use right off. It does not make sense.

Are you really suggesting to cripple HoT content so that you can go to Verdant Brink from level 2 fresh new character? o_O

You’re not forced to play the core game, but do not complain it’s hard to directly jump on HoT then.
You do school before university.
You need to be high level with good gear before going to the Heart of Maguuma.
Heart of Thorns is the continuation of Central Tyria, not a replacement.

You can choose between unlocking Elite from a mix of HoT and CT or full HoT.
Pick what you want.

You do not have to watch Star Wars I if you want to watch Star Wars VI

The reasoning behind the GW1 campaings (each independant, playable from 0 and playable for existing level 20 chars) was good – they sold well. EoTM was a bit … la la because it required you to get to level 20 before you could use it. And the bundle – Prophecies + EoTM was a horrible one because I can level from 0-20 in about 4h in Factions, 6h in Nightfall but it takes WAAAAY longer in Prophecies.

EoTM became more popular once they lowered the level cap to 10 and gave you a boost instead.

Never mind your school/university “analogy” – that’s not the issue here. For ANet the issue is if HoT is a financial success or not. And players who get the game + extension but quit before they actually reach the extension or quit soon after they reach the extension is not a good thing – existing players not buying the extension is not a good thing, existing players who bought the extension but aren’t playing it anymore is a bad thing.

Reminding people how real life works is nice but has nothing to do with how a game works and if you recall those “happy” days in school … and/or university … you’re forced to go through that in real life – you’re not forced, however, to do this in a game you purchased for entertainment.

Up until recently i read that you had to be level 80 to access your elite spec. No problem there. So i take the alts that have an elite i’m interested in and level them to 80. No problem either. Then, after purchasing HoT, i find out you need to 100% your characters traits and skills BEFORE a 60 point buy in just to try the elite! And on top of being forced to buy out five trait lines I can now only use two if i want the elite, even if it’s just to try out the weapon skill?

There are traits and skills i never would have purchased given a choice.

This forum has 64 pages, so I’m not gonna scroll it back, but I do wanna ask a question that maybe already has been asked.
I’m now on 70% of my spec. Some skills are already unlocked, but why I can’t use them?
Why I have to be full 100% to use any skills what I have unlocked already? I want to try out my skills on the new map, and not finishing the new map and then try it. It makes totally no sense at all.
When u start a new character u can play with any weapons and skills but u need to lvl it up aswell but u can use them when u unlocked it so u have a good experience, now it’s totally the opposite way. I need to play till end game then I can play with my new specs and then I need to walk over again the whole map to do the stuff what I have done already? i see people farming CoF, some of my guildies are lvl 56-60. that is not how I want to do it. I want to play the expansion with my new specs in ur new maps. And not playing the new maps with my old specs. If u clear out the first map u should able to play with ur new stuff to explore the next 3 maps, but no players, u need to clear out the 4 maps and then we give u ur new specs to play with. To ply what? It’s already end game en story. Doing those chain event with those new specs? No it’s so boring to do that over and over and over again.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

That’s not quite the issue here – and the “storm” here in the forum is mainly based on not revealing important things before pre-purchase even started. Namely:

(1) Massive change in the personal story that is no longer more or less linear but requires you to get certain masteries – which forces you to get them in HoT because you cannot raise HoTM masterie sby any other means. The level gated personal story (also a late addition) didn’t care where and how you got your levels.

(2) People expected the elite spec to be available more or less from the start – instead they are hit with double gated content AND a huge HP cost. Get almost all HP from HoT – to get those, get a lot of masteries first.

So it’s not the grinding as such (or rather, not JUST the grinding) but it’s the way things turned out to be – which is a rather radical change from how GW 2 was before HoT and which was nowhere announced.

People (from my point of view rightly so) expected to be able to play their Chronomancer, Reaper, whatnot a few hours into the game and to enjoy HoT WITH the new elite spec. Instead they have to go through HoT with their old build do unlock the elite spec to then … er … have nothing really new to try it out with.

The foremost issue I have with the new systems is not necessarily the forward grind but rather how it creates a backlog and punishes players who have already played alot.

To give anyone an idea of what I mean, look at how the bottleneck isn’t the mastery points themselves. I have no problem with having to fetch mastery points. I only have little problem with attaching some experience bars to couple with the mastery points in the zones you do, but when you have to go back and re-do content you have already finished just for the experience grind, then it becomes ridiculous.

The same goes for trait unlocks. A good example there is starting a new character, like a Rev, and level it in WvW. You will gain double trait unlocks and by the time the character is 80 you have pushed enough WXP to go a fair bit into your specialization.

However, if you have 20 odd characters already, that WXP (or Hero point) grind is massive and far more taxing than the 10 odd levels of other games, since we’re essentially looking at a full 80-level grind, comparatively. Also, while it may be possible to play 2.5 trait lines now when hardly anyone has a full unlock it is going to be an issue to stay competetive and if you play 3 other lines while unlocking your specs we’re still looking at re-grinding content you have already grinded.

I already have enough WXP to unlock everything in the WvW trait list (and a fair chunk in spare) but now I have to do another 1600 (~80×20 for ~2.5 tokens / level) WXP levels to unlock 20 specializations that way. I also have to cycle all characters as the items are stupidly soulbound. Whether it’s WXP or Hero points it’s a question of re-grinding completed content which is bad design and horribly boring. At least the masteries and their experience grind are account-wide.

It feels like u buying a new game, but u need to play with ur old stuff and when u finished the new contents then u can play with the new stuff.

sasukeboy.8492:

This forum has 64 pages, so I’m not gonna scroll it back, but I do wanna ask a question that maybe already has been asked.
I’m now on 70% of my spec. Some skills are already unlocked, but why I can’t use them?
Why I have to be full 100% to use any skills what I have unlocked already? I want to try out my skills on the new map, and not finishing the new map and then try it. It makes totally no sense at all.
When u start a new character u can play with any weapons and skills but u need to lvl it up aswell but u can use them when u unlocked it so u have a good experience, now it’s totally the opposite way. I need to play till end game then I can play with my new specs and then I need to walk over again the whole map to do the stuff what I have done already? i see people farming CoF, some of my guildies are lvl 56-60. that is not how I want to do it. I want to play the expansion with my new specs in ur new maps. And not playing the new maps with my old specs. If u clear out the first map u should able to play with ur new stuff to explore the next 3 maps, but no players, u need to clear out the 4 maps and then we give u ur new specs to play with. To ply what? It’s already end game en story. Doing those chain event with those new specs? No it’s so boring to do that over and over and over again.

You have to have the elite specialization traitline set in order to use those skills. They are directly tied to it.

Why give 200 hp’s for map completion? I’ll tell you why.

Anet wanted to force us into Maguuma Jungle for a LONG TIME. If they made hp’s account-wide like they did the masteries, we would all, even us weekend warriors, be able to complete the new maps in a month or two. Then, we’d all get bored and start wondering why we paid $50 for so little content. So some (high-ranking) fool at Anet decided that they needed to hold a gun to our head and make us grind through the same content for every character we cared about to stretch the content out. They did this even though forced grinding runs completely contrary to Anet’s published philosophy that repetitive gameplay is boring.

So back to the question of why map completion? It’s simple. Map completion is the only character-specific aspect of the game. Every other aspect of the game that could be quantitatively used to measure “accomplishment” is account-wide. WvW rank, PvP rank, fractal level, dungeon mastery, living story, achievements, legendary crafting, etc. are all account-wide. Map completion is all that’s left. Even though just running around Tyria for 50 hours hitting all the POI’s and vistas is about as brain-dead and unchallenging an activity you can imagine, it the only activity that creates a NUMBER that is different on every one of your characters.

TL;DR – Map completion because if you are a lazy teacher, it’s faster to grade your students by their attendance record than it is to sit down and grade their tests.

sasukeboy.8492:

This forum has 64 pages, so I’m not gonna scroll it back, but I do wanna ask a question that maybe already has been asked.
I’m now on 70% of my spec. Some skills are already unlocked, but why I can’t use them?
Why I have to be full 100% to use any skills what I have unlocked already? I want to try out my skills on the new map, and not finishing the new map and then try it. It makes totally no sense at all.

Even though HoT is a mess for me too, especially the HP situation, you’re wrong about this.

I’m at 63,8% of my spec, and I can use what I unlocked, you need to equip the new traitline (only possible in the third-lower slot in the traits panel), then you can use the new weapon/new utilities (ofc, in our case the ones we already unlocked).

OFC, there’s no real reason to equip the elite spec imo if we miss yet the GM traits, but you can do it nonetheless.

HtFde.3856:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

People really complaining about grinding?
You grind for loot.
You grind for crafting materials.
You grind dungeons for tokens.
Oct. 23rd and the highly anticipated HoT release – within hours people complain about grinding.
smh

That’s not quite the issue here

So you get to tell him which issue he wants to address? Not hardly.

I think he hit the nail on the head.

HtFde.3856:

- and the “storm” here in the forum is mainly based on not revealing important things before pre-purchase even started. Namely:

As a company they do not have to reveal a shred of information. We are fortunate we got what they gave us. We are not entitled to anything.

HtFde.3856:

People expected the elite spec to be available more or less from the start – instead they are hit with double gated content AND a huge HP cost. Get almost all HP from HoTM – to get those get a lot of masteries first.

So it’s not the grinding as such (or rather, not JUST the grinding) but it’s the way things turned out to be – which is a rather radical change from how GW 2 was before HoT and which was nowhere announced.

People (from my point of view rightly so) expected to be able to play their Chronomancer, Reaper, whatnot a few hours into the game and to enjoy HoT WITH the new elite spec. Instead they have to go through HoT with their old build do unlock the elite spec to then … er … have nothing really new to try it out with.

Assuming is stupid. You and others have no one else but yourselves to blame for “expecting” anything.

This has probably been said 100 times, but the WvW proof of heroic needs to be made account bound. Really sucks to have to farm for dozen of hours a class that isn’t your main class just to try out something.

Between the empty maps i keep getting thrown into and this, ill be done with HOT in about a week(Finish the story if it doesnt bug out on me and call it goo) and go back to WoT, Starmade, or more than likely Fallout 4 when it comes out due to not caring anymore.>.>

I am not running /all/ my toons through HOT just to play with the new elite spec. i was hoping..oh so hoping to run my necromancer around and explore tyria as a Reaper, my engineer is in the same boat, both of those specs sparked my interest in playing them, but for such a high and long time to get them, i lost it all.

I won’t write much, because I think 64 pages are more than enough for the attention of anet! I will only say:
1) I have 3 guardians and have to do same stuff to unlock same content..well i can live to have unlocked DH on only one of my guards, but..
2) I have so many other chars I want to play with the new specialisation and yesterday i stopped HP GRINDING! Yeah GRINDING!!! I want to experience the whole new content with the new specialisation I paid for and I know, that some HP should be needed to unlock it, but the amount you expect we to GRIND is just unrealistic! Grind yourself, I am out! Take your money you got from me, but I am out until something change and if not, I don’t care and I am sure, I am not the only one!
I just wanted to have fun with the new content, yeah play months for getting masteries, but HP are NOT masteries! Well it got actually too long than I expected, but take your time reading like many take their time to GRIND!!! Sorry, I don’t have the time for this!!! Three years loyality for nothing….NO MORE!!

PS: And btw you (maybe not intentionally) tried to kill my wvw server and turned my game into horror. I want a game to have fun, not to write on forums! I hate writing on forums!

Sorry if any mistakes, I don’t want to read it one more time.

Page 65?

Could someone please tell me at what point in the new “forum mastery” line we will unlock the “dev response” trait?