Guild Wars 2

Thanks Anet! This is a much more manageable amount to work with.

I hope the change also includes a major reduction in the ‘buy-in’ cost of the first talent. I’ve put like 120 points in and I feel like that should have the spec nearly halfway finished at a 250 total cost (frankly I still wish it would be no more expensive than any other spec). I feel like I could handle playing a half-full spec, but right now 120 points doesn’t even feel like it makes scrapper worth trying, which has led to me basically not playing at all.

IMO, the ideal set-up would’ve been to level-gate it at 60-80 (which I think is actually in place?) and then have short or mid-length class questline that goes through some of the lore surrounding the new “elite” specs, at which point they’re no more difficult to unlock than any other spec.

As-is, every choice I have to play the game leads to boredom.

The source of the problem is the “new” trait system.

Back when we could equip 5 trait lines and multiple adepts/master traits per line the current system would have functioned. Every trait you would unlock would fit somewhere in the line (you could equip 3 adept until the masters and grandmasters are unlocked).

As it is right now, there is no point in equipping your elite profession until you have unlocked all the traits because you will be wasting trait slots. So anyway, unlocking your elite profession can’t feel rewarding that way.

Congratulations to all that strived for the upcoming changes and also to ANet for having listened.

Some never give up on grinding, others never give up on real life.

Best regards.

RedBaron.6058:

Some never give up on grinding, others never give up on real life.

Epic.

250 hero points is a major improvement and i’d like to throw my hat in the ring with a thanks for the change. 250 on all characters is a lot more manageable. It’s still work but the goal is much more achievable.

That STILL doesn’t resolve the issue of how hero points aren’t soloable. Or the gimmicky hero points. Or the timers on some hero points.

But, this is a very good start. one that i am content with and hope to see more improvements based on it too.

Bhima.9518:

PopeUrban.2578:

Tommyknocker.6089:

Can we just stop calling them "elite specs " FKS (for kittens sake)!

They are alternate play style, they are no more elite than any other extra trait line with a new weapon. Continuing to refer to them as elite is a misnomer and propagating the fact is just getting asinine at this point. Unlocking them should be an accomplishment yes, but no more so than unlocking your other trait lines/weapons/utilities IMO.

They are elite specs specifically because you can only ever take one at a time, and unlike core specs the actually confer more mechanical changes and grant skills and weapons you can only use when equipping them.

They may not feel particularly elite now, but once the second spec is released that term will make a lot more sense. Their power is extreme enough that taking two would be OP. That’s what makes them elite.

They’re elite not because of any raw mechanical power they add, but because of the level of what they add to a character compared to core specs. They’re simply “better” than core specs because of the shift in playstyle they can add to a character, a thing that core spec lines don’t do.

You are talking in riddles with no facts to base them on. The only thing that makes these specs actually special is that they (many of them anyways) change the way your classes actually play… and after 3 years of the same way to play our classes, you can understand why people consider these as “better”.

And you are wrong because the core specs DO bring shifts in playstyle (a D/D elementalist plays a whole hell of a lot differently than a staff Ele, A condi Thief plays differently than a direct damage one etc.)… the difference is that we’ve already played those playstyles ad nauseum for 3 years already.

I think what they’re trying to say is while yes a DD ele plays different than a staff ele, an ele cannot equip a warhorn only a tempest can, yet a tempest can still equip any weapon an ele has, thus a change in the play style. Also what makes an elite spec special at least right now is that it can only be slotted in the bottom specialization slot for builds meaning unless this changes you will only ever be able to use one elite spec at a time as they add more. This leads to more class variety and more variations in play style than if there were no elite specializations. So basically there are mechanics that you can only access by slotting the elite spec.

The Hero Point requirement adjustment is a welcome and commendable step (big thanks to Colin and the gang!), but doesn’t address the other issues, such as locking Hero Challenges behind one-shot group-only content and high-level masteries.

That’s understandable, though, because changing them would/will require more time and testing than a blanket adjustment to the cost of elite specializations.

ArenaNet has a lot to do on all fronts, so I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for these other changes to be considered. I do hope, however, that the need for them won’t be forgotten, because these issues have a major effect on the player progression experience, and bear directly on the enjoyability of the game.

Majic.4801:

The Hero Point requirement adjustment is a welcome and commendable step (big thanks to Colin and the gang!), but doesn’t address the other issues, such as locking Hero Challenges behind one-shot group-only content and high-level masteries.

That’s understandable, though, because changing them would/will require more time and testing than a blanket adjustment to the cost of elite specializations.

ArenaNet has a lot to do on all fronts, so I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for these other changes to be considered. I do hope, however, that the need for them won’t be forgotten, because these issues have a major effect on the player progression experience, and bear directly on the enjoyability of the game.

Definitely. I feel we should still bring up those issues because they ARE important.

Like for example, the bacon thing in auric basin. It REQUIRES a specific class with their elite specialisation progressed to a point where a specific trait is available to grant alacrity to nearby allies.

That’s kittening bullkitten. It truly is. That should NOT be the case AT ALL. Gimmicks, one shot hero challenges and the like need to be reworked. all hero challenges should be made soloable and the rest of the content left as is (with perhaps tweaks to masteries).

Osu.6307:

250 points is fair. As soon as this change goes live, everyone’s main character(s) will max out and they can play the new content with the elite spec, like so many of us have wanted. It also means even our alts with 5% map completion can power through VB and AB in a couple hours if they are just going for hero points because the HoT masteries will be leveled up by then. To be fair, it’s not the first 50 hero points that are the problem. It’s the LAST 50.

Which main character? When we’re in need of more frontline I go guardian or shout warrior. Need more dps – I’ll bring my necro. More healing – here comes my ele. Wanna do some roaming – out comes my thief or mesmer. The ranger is a tad dusty as is my engineer.

As for “leftover points” – never built superior siege with all available skill points, did you …

Galandil.9641:

RedBaron.6058:

Some never give up on grinding, others never give up on real life.

Epic.

Wrong though – eventually we all give up on real life … question is … does heaven or hell offer computer games?

The reduction from 400 to 250 is a good call.

That being said, having unlocked two of the Elite specs fully, how much I’m looking forward to the joy of seeing 150 Hero Points sitting useless in my character screens cannot be overstated.

Galandil.9641:

RedBaron.6058:

Some never give up on grinding, others never give up on real life.

Epic.

Epic indeed.

What I’m dying to see, though, is the “OMG shut up everything is perfect and 400 is perfect!” crowd changing their speech to “OMG ArenaNet is the best 250 is perfect!”.

Thelgar.7214:

The reduction from 400 to 250 is a good call.

That being said, having unlocked two of the Elite specs fully, how much I’m looking forward to the joy of seeing 150 Hero Points sitting useless in my character screens cannot be overstated.

Yeah, but for a few days, you were King of the Mountain, man.

Cameirus.8407:

I cant help but think that the weird number of “toilet paper” drops from mobs is the devs unconscious way of saying the game is going down the pan….

Perhaps they thought we’d need something to clean ourselves up with after fighting the new champs.

I knew it.

Cynical mode activate!

I bet that they knew that this would upset players and so they did it on purpose so that they could “fix” it later and get the praise and thanks that everyone is showering them with. The problem is that 250 is STILL too much! What is so special about “elite” specs?! They did this and now they get all of this praise and still get to overly gate content to stretch the expansion out.

These should be equivalent to previous specs in cost. There should be more alternatives to gaining points beyond wvw and HPs in the new area (compare it to leveling if you must, you can level through wvw, pvp, pve, crafting). The masteries should be the leveling equivalent and I think most people are… ok… with that grind.

Also, HPs should ALL be soloable. There isn’t any reason for somebody to go to these HPs once they are done and so in the future these will be impossible to do without organized groups. We have our new organized group content (or will soon anyways) and I’m ok with the challenge that the general pve has (granted it feels a lot like pre-Orr with the ridiculous CC), so why must HPs be group content?! It doesn’t make sense.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

I knew it.

Cynical mode activate!

I bet that they knew that this would upset players and so they did it on purpose so that they could “fix” it later and get the praise and thanks that everyone is showering them with. The problem is that 250 is STILL too much! What is so special about “elite” specs?! They did this and now they get all of this praise and still get to overly gate content to stretch the expansion out.

These should be equivalent to previous specs in cost. There should be more alternatives to gaining points beyond wvw and HPs in the new area (compare it to leveling if you must, you can level through wvw, pvp, pve, crafting). The masteries should be the leveling equivalent and I think most people are… ok… with that grind.

Also, HPs should ALL be soloable. There isn’t any reason for somebody to go to these HPs once they are done and so in the future these will be impossible to do without organized groups. We have our new organized group content (or will soon anyways) and I’m ok with the challenge that the general pve has (granted it feels a lot like pre-Orr with the ridiculous CC), so why must HPs be group content?! It doesn’t make sense.

geebus….some people can never be happy, bet if they dropped it to 1 you would still complain. I disagreed with this nerf from 400 to 250, but hey 250 is a reasonable number so ill agree with it,its only 25 hero points in the new map, some of which are free :\

I have like tons of classes.

I can’t spend time doing the same thing for all those classes… Please consider dropping the value of hero points needed… 250 is still a lot for someone who has like 7 or 8 classes, and want to play elite spec for all of them.

Or if you make hero points; make some hero points have 50 point value worth…. but more challenging or whatever.

Don’t want to waypoint everywhere doing boring things just to play elite spec :/

DaedalusDragon.3754:

I knew it.

Cynical mode activate!

I bet that they knew that this would upset players and so they did it on purpose so that they could “fix” it later and get the praise and thanks that everyone is showering them with. The problem is that 250 is STILL too much! What is so special about “elite” specs?! They did this and now they get all of this praise and still get to overly gate content to stretch the expansion out.

These should be equivalent to previous specs in cost. There should be more alternatives to gaining points beyond wvw and HPs in the new area (compare it to leveling if you must, you can level through wvw, pvp, pve, crafting). The masteries should be the leveling equivalent and I think most people are… ok… with that grind.

Also, HPs should ALL be soloable. There isn’t any reason for somebody to go to these HPs once they are done and so in the future these will be impossible to do without organized groups. We have our new organized group content (or will soon anyways) and I’m ok with the challenge that the general pve has (granted it feels a lot like pre-Orr with the ridiculous CC), so why must HPs be group content?! It doesn’t make sense.

Nah. Given how smooth the launch was, if they hadn’t had it 400 to start with, then ANet would have won a lot of praise over the expansion and how smooth of a launch they had.

As it is, the joy of the smoothness of the launch has been at least tempered if not overshadowed by this controversy.

Although that feeling of achievement is well diminished, I think this is a good change. I don’t think it was good gameplay to rush to all the easy HP points with every one of my alts, skipping all the meta, and possibly being handicapped in WvW to want to play an elite spec. I think this was a large part of why a lot of events felt unmanned the first weekend as everyone was off with their own agendas to level up and complete their maps. (the weird megaserver behaviour also could have been a factor.) Again, another grind if you have all 8 professions (or multiples) to do.
Although between all the HP points (which I’ll probably only complete 3 times max for the legendaries) and the WvW notary, I fear Hero Points will become the skill points of yesteryear.

I’m going to consider this my birthday gift. It isn’t exactly what I asked for, but I’ll still take it.

250 is way better, but still too much. I can understand that they try to fill up the new maps, if only with alts trying to farm stupid heropoints – while they won’t really contribute to the maps event progress these maps full of heropoint jumpers will start to annoy other people eventually.
Plus, farming these points with 25 chaarakters is still something that keeps me off setting a single foot into the new areas with all of my alts. It’s just boring having to do this over and over again.
120 (the double of a usual spec) would have been perfect. People could have chosen to do them in central Tyria OR in Maguuma, which would have given us so much more freedom.

Thanks for the change though, but as someone with 25 characters I still feel like receiving a penalty for buying so much character slots and levelling so much characters, equipping them and so on.
I WANT to play all of them, but I do NOT want to stumble through Maguuma with all of them. It DOES make a difference which class you’re trying to rush the insane hunt for heropoints through with. I do have class and equip combinations that are (or were) finde for central Tyrias stuff, but I don’t even want to think about dragging them through the jungle, while I still want the elite’s…

Even if I do ONE character a day, finding all the necessary points, trying to get to them, finding people that help to do them… that equals 24 days of madness. (My Necro is the onlyone with 100 percent map completion and has the reaper spec now)
Time that I can’t ENJOY the new content. Because There is a reason I only completed central Tyria only ONCE: I find it boring. And being forced to do it now doesn’t make it more interesting…

Anyway… For now I can’t find the motivation to drag every character through Maguuma – Maybe I’ll never find it – means no elite specs for me then. shrugs It’s still disappointing somehow.

Samnang.1879:

I have like tons of classes.

I can’t spend time doing the same thing for all those classes… Please consider dropping the value of hero points needed… 250 is still a lot for someone who has like 7 or 8 classes, and want to play elite spec for all of them.

Or if you make hero points; make some hero points have 50 point value worth…. but more challenging or whatever.

Don’t want to waypoint everywhere doing boring things just to play elite spec :/

If 100% World Exploration = 200 HP is account wide then maybe I will do it…and at same time ANet will solve the problem of players with many many characters.

Thanks for the update to the Hero Point Requirement Anet! For all of you that reviewed the game horribly, you better go change that now!

It shaves off1350 points across my Alts. I will take it, thanks!

Aldric the Slayer.5784:

Thanks for the update to the Hero Point Requirement Anet! For all of you that reviewed the game horribly, you better go change that now!

I don’t believe in binary ratings.

Zind.3659:

I hope the change also includes a major reduction in the ‘buy-in’ cost of the first talent. I’ve put like 120 points in and I feel like that should have the spec nearly halfway finished at a 250 total cost (frankly I still wish it would be no more expensive than any other spec). I feel like I could handle playing a half-full spec, but right now 120 points doesn’t even feel like it makes scrapper worth trying, which has led to me basically not playing at all.

IMO, the ideal set-up would’ve been to level-gate it at 60-80 (which I think is actually in place?) and then have short or mid-length class questline that goes through some of the lore surrounding the new “elite” specs, at which point they’re no more difficult to unlock than any other spec.

As-is, every choice I have to play the game leads to boredom.

It is your decision to have that many alts. Please do not make character progression any thinner than it already is.

Samnang.1879:

I have like tons of classes.

I can’t spend time doing the same thing for all those classes… Please consider dropping the value of hero points needed… 250 is still a lot for someone who has like 7 or 8 classes, and want to play elite spec for all of them.

Or if you make hero points; make some hero points have 50 point value worth…. but more challenging or whatever.

Don’t want to waypoint everywhere doing boring things just to play elite spec :/

They can’t drop it much below 250 or those who map completed Tyria, which is needed if you were crafting legendary weapons, could unlock them completely since that gives them just north of 210 HP.

Behellagh.1468:

Samnang.1879:

I have like tons of classes.

I can’t spend time doing the same thing for all those classes… Please consider dropping the value of hero points needed… 250 is still a lot for someone who has like 7 or 8 classes, and want to play elite spec for all of them.

Or if you make hero points; make some hero points have 50 point value worth…. but more challenging or whatever.

Don’t want to waypoint everywhere doing boring things just to play elite spec :/

They can’t drop it much below 250 or those who map completed Tyria, which is needed if you were crafting legendary weapons, could unlock them completely since that gives them just north of 210 HP.

And? They completed Tyria. That should be fair enough. O.o
Plus I’d rather have people on the Maguuma maps that are dedicated and helping to do the map events than being on a map with only heropoint jumpers because they’re FORCED to. Plus the choice whether we do HPs in Tyria OR Maguuma should be ours.

kuscheldrow.6415:

Behellagh.1468:

Samnang.1879:

I have like tons of classes.

I can’t spend time doing the same thing for all those classes… Please consider dropping the value of hero points needed… 250 is still a lot for someone who has like 7 or 8 classes, and want to play elite spec for all of them.

Or if you make hero points; make some hero points have 50 point value worth…. but more challenging or whatever.

Don’t want to waypoint everywhere doing boring things just to play elite spec :/

They can’t drop it much below 250 or those who map completed Tyria, which is needed if you were crafting legendary weapons, could unlock them completely since that gives them just north of 210 HP.

And? They completed Tyria. That should be fair enough. O.o
Plus I’d rather have people on the Maguuma maps that are dedicated and helping to do the map events than being on a map with only heropoint jumpers because they’re FORCED to. Plus the choice whether we do HPs in Tyria OR Maguuma should be ours.

But it shouldn’t be 50 HP as Samnang suggested. The standard Specialization is 60 HP. Then you toss in the various utility, heal and elite skills the ES gets, and the skins/gear (not sure if it’s actual gear) and you are probably over 100 HP and that’s before the “elite” tax and an unlock cost because it shouldn’t be free for a new set of weapon skills and profession mechanics.

A fine compromise, thank you.

I do think that there are still issues around the acquisition of HPs and the scaling of some challenges but those are, I suspect, much more complex issues to address.

For now I’m super happy that I can do the bulk of my unlocking in core Tyria to enter the jungle pretty much complete … or I can just go straight into the jungle … choice is good. :-)

250 is good thank you.

Honestly I do NOT like the “Hero Points”. I think they should have just kept them as Skill Points instead. It makes finding them on the map more difficult compared to all the new icons they threw on the map. I miss the blue chevron.

Although I do appreciate the reduction in total Hero Points required. Thank you.

I was also glad to see the reduction to 250, but I must admit I’m still not a big fan of how things are setup. When a player is first learning the game and how things work, having a gradual unlock system makes sense and keeps a sense of progression, learning the mechanics, and not being overwhelmed with too many options right away. But when you’re a veteran player, having to unlock something when you already know what it is, how it works, and you just want to play it really doesn’t seem to add benefit. It only adds player frustration.

Behellagh.1468:

kuscheldrow.6415:

Behellagh.1468:

Samnang.1879:

I have like tons of classes.

I can’t spend time doing the same thing for all those classes… Please consider dropping the value of hero points needed… 250 is still a lot for someone who has like 7 or 8 classes, and want to play elite spec for all of them.

Or if you make hero points; make some hero points have 50 point value worth…. but more challenging or whatever.

Don’t want to waypoint everywhere doing boring things just to play elite spec :/

They can’t drop it much below 250 or those who map completed Tyria, which is needed if you were crafting legendary weapons, could unlock them completely since that gives them just north of 210 HP.

And? They completed Tyria. That should be fair enough. O.o
Plus I’d rather have people on the Maguuma maps that are dedicated and helping to do the map events than being on a map with only heropoint jumpers because they’re FORCED to. Plus the choice whether we do HPs in Tyria OR Maguuma should be ours.

But it shouldn’t be 50 HP as Samnang suggested. The standard Specialization is 60 HP. Then you toss in the various utility, heal and elite skills the ES gets, and the skins/gear (not sure if it’s actual gear) and you are probably over 100 HP and that’s before the “elite” tax and an unlock cost because it shouldn’t be free for a new set of weapon skills and profession mechanics.

The original datamined value was 175, if i remember correctly. Not sure why Anet decided to change it that much later on – maybe they were afraid that players won’t like the new zones enough, and felt the need to increase pressure to play them. I have no idea, but it still was a bad choice – a reasoning like that would have led to new elites costing in 1000-s of HPs in future expansions.

Funny thing, it’s not the first time it happened – remember when they had to rebalance hp costs of skills and traits from their original plan in the new trait system? It was exactly the same situation. One would have thought they might have learned something from the first case.

250 is a great number, but please reduce the HP gain for HoT challenge to increase the ratio of Tyria HP. It’s meaningless for completing all HP in HoT now…

There is absolutely no pleasing some people, is there.

If you have a few toons – one of each profession, this 250 is easier to attain than the 400.
For those that have one profession for each race – or one profession for each gender and each race… you brought that whole thing on yourself. The development team is not required to make things easier for someone that has decided to have 10, 15 or 20+ toons.

They dropped the 400 to 250 and still you complain.

There is a hero point elite specialization bug. I just reported it both forum and in game.

After the patch old professions from GW2 needed 250 hero point to complete their respective elite specialization.

However Revenant that was in Hot at the time of the patch still required 500 hero point to complete its elite specialization post patch.

In addition newly created Warrior in Maguuma Hot still required 500 hero point to complete its elite specialization post patch. At the same time an old warrior from GW2 before Hot and not in Maguuma Hot changed and only required 250 hero point to complete its elite specialization post patch.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

There is absolutely no pleasing some people, is there.

If you have a few toons – one of each profession, this 250 is easier to attain than the 400.
For those that have one profession for each race – or one profession for each gender and each race… you brought that whole thing on yourself. The development team is not required to make things easier for someone that has decided to have 10, 15 or 20+ toons.

They dropped the 400 to 250 and still you complain.

I think people complain because there is something important to complain about. This change wasn’t enough and doesn’t solve the true problem with a system like this. I think it should be mentioned… again…. that these new specs are “elite” in name only. They should NEVER provide any benefit over the old specs beyond a simple change of playstyle. In the expansion, the progression similar to specs from 1-80 has been replaced with the mastery system, which makes more sense. I’ve already said it, but it seems fairly likely (especially if that datamined number is true) that they put it so high so that they could lower it to 250 and be praised for “listening” rather than shamed for making it cost so much. That is because 250 is still too high. Putting it low enough so that world completers get it automatically seems incredibly fair seeing as how much work that is.

I believe an easy way to solve the alt problem while keeping with the actual design might be to add a level up token to pve like is earned in WvW, which can be used to unlock HP or to buy little things (nothing that would give an advantage or would sell for too high; champion / hero bag, maybe would be fair)

It keeps a cap on HP earned, it allows to earn specialisations for alts without doing Hero challenge or while playing other classes.

For me, 250 is a great balance between too easy and farming days to get.

I do not mind having to wait to get it on alts, I took the time to level them up, dicover some part of the world with them, I’ll take the time to keep on advancing them.

After running around most of the night yesterday, I’ve come to the conclusion that the Hero Point adjustments are a good thing. Before it felt like a chore to earn enough points to unlock even a single Trait. Making the challenges scale down to match the number of players around means I can solo them when I’m alone. Now it feels like I’m making reasonable progress.

In other words, it’s fun again.

As someone with multiple characters, some who barely had any surplus points when HoT launched, this will help a great deal. Masteries are still a grind, but since Masteries are account wide I can accept that they take a while. Plus I can casually earn Mastery XP while I’m working on the Hero Points.

Atleast the bacon thing was changed drastically, so it seems like some things are getting through to them. However the difficulty needs to be toned down. They havent changed the difficulty in the slightest, they’ve increased the timer as another compromise thinking it will satisfy us. it STILL doesn’t solve the problem. the hero challenges need to be soloable. they are not soloable.

The change to 250 hero points is welcomed. I started a Rev and I have Herald halfway unlocked solely through the first 2 maps. It’s a welcome change. The progress is slowing down now but I can always go back to the core game to catch up on hero points if I get desperate enough.

The difficulty I’m fine with. With Dulfy releasing a guide I was able to get guild members and ask map for help with hero point challenges and in exchange I would show them how to get to it. It was a win/win.

So far in the first map I’ve gotten 8/11 done. 3 locked behind masteries (2 if you’re a Mesmer or have help from a Mesmer).

I am extremely and utterly disappointed by ArenaNet’s actions to reduce the hero point value from 400 to 250 so early into expansion.

First of all, I have to completely disagree that 400 HP was high at all. On launch day I started my Revenant with lvl30 scroll and 38 Tomes of Knowledge and leveled to 80 to get access to HoT content. Now I’ve been thoroughly enjoying this expansion so far. My main goal has been trying to unlock Herald for myself but I’ve done other things as well. (Meta events, story, old stuff) Even while doing everything else I had managed to get 80% unlocked of my Herald before today. If you can get all of that in 5 days while working 8h a day on 2 of those days. So it’s quite clear that it doesn’t take too much at all.

Secondly, Elite Specialization felt like a big reward for playing the game and it felt different from how most games work. In most games you just get the skills or buy them. But in Guild Wars it has always been an adventure to get those skills you wanted. It truly felt wonderfully different. Even in the recent post from Colin Johanson he said: “We always viewed the elite specialization as one of the major rewards in expansion…” And that’s how it felt! Well at least until today.

Now that it’s been changed to this greatly lower value I got my elite specialization when I logged in today. I have to say I didn’t feel any enjoyment for unlocking elite specialization or all that work I put in. I only felt like I’ve been robbed from that amazing feeling of achievement I was looking forward to. That feeling of finding the last hero point you need to get that final elite skill and amazing weapon. Fighting the mob with people. All the while knowing: “after this I’ll have that shield and elite skill” THAT is the moment I was looking forward to. So today I excitedly got back home to continue my quest. You can imagine my disappointment when I logged in today. That amazing feeling you’d get from this achievement was turned into a simple, boring, login reward.

I cannot express enough how annoyed I am right now. All that work, all that anticipation and everything turned to ash in my mouth. Imagine working forwards to killing a big boss monster constantly failing but getting back up to try again. But before you can go for another try, developer comes and instant kills the boss for you and gives you the loot. This kind of boss kill would not have any meaning or emotion behind it. And that’s how I’m feeling right now.

Seeing how this part of my experience was taken from me, just because ArenaNet could not wait even a WEEK(!?!) before conforming to these whiners is beyond disappointing. Seriously it’s been 5 days since launch and people are complaining it’s too difficult? Even when I manage to do it without problem from level 1 to 80% elite spec progress? And all this for what? Because the spoiled children couldn’t get their toys right there in the shop? So the developer spoils them more? If this was the only game where loud children get their opinions heard it wouldn’t be too bad. But I’m sick of watching every game to conform to these people who want everything instantly for no effort. Though I have to say the biggest disappointment is the Guild Wars 2 developers. Developers who can’t stand behind their own design decisions which I think they achieved fairly well. What a massive bunch of cowards.

Now that I’ve said my words maybe I’ll be able to continue playing. I certainly wasn’t feeling like playing before I wrote this. Have a nice day everyone! See you in Tyria!

PS. Sorry for the spelling, structure, etc. Second forum post I’ve ever made.

Dremars.6849:

I am extremely and utterly disappointed by ArenaNet’s actions to reduce the hero point value from 400 to 250 so early into expansion.

First of all, I have to completely disagree that 400 HP was high at all. On launch day I started my Revenant with lvl30 scroll and 38 Tomes of Knowledge and leveled to 80 to get access to HoT content. Now I’ve been thoroughly enjoying this expansion so far. My main goal has been trying to unlock Herald for myself but I’ve done other things as well. (Meta events, story, old stuff) Even while doing everything else I had managed to get 80% unlocked of my Herald before today. If you can get all of that in 5 days while working 8h a day on 2 of those days. So it’s quite clear that it doesn’t take too much at all.

Secondly, Elite Specialization felt like a big reward for playing the game and it felt different from how most games work. In most games you just get the skills or buy them. But in Guild Wars it has always been an adventure to get those skills you wanted. It truly felt wonderfully different. Even in the recent post from Colin Johanson he said: “We always viewed the elite specialization as one of the major rewards in expansion…” And that’s how it felt! Well at least until today.

Now that it’s been changed to this greatly lower value I got my elite specialization when I logged in today. I have to say I didn’t feel any enjoyment for unlocking elite specialization or all that work I put in. I only felt like I’ve been robbed from that amazing feeling of achievement I was looking forward to. That feeling of finding the last hero point you need to get that final elite skill and amazing weapon. Fighting the mob with people. All the while knowing: “after this I’ll have that shield and elite skill” THAT is the moment I was looking forward to. So today I excitedly got back home to continue my quest. You can imagine my disappointment when I logged in today. That amazing feeling you’d get from this achievement was turned into a simple, boring, login reward.

I cannot express enough how annoyed I am right now. All that work, all that anticipation and everything turned to ash in my mouth. Imagine working forwards to killing a big boss monster constantly failing but getting back up to try again. But before you can go for another try, developer comes and instant kills the boss for you and gives you the loot. This kind of boss kill would not have any meaning or emotion behind it. And that’s how I’m feeling right now.

Seeing how this part of my experience was taken from me, just because ArenaNet could not wait even a WEEK(!?!) before conforming to these whiners is beyond disappointing. Seriously it’s been 5 days since launch and people are complaining it’s too difficult? Even when I manage to do it without problem from level 1 to 80% elite spec progress? And all this for what? Because the spoiled children couldn’t get their toys right there in the shop? So the developer spoils them more? If this was the only game where loud children get their opinions heard it wouldn’t be too bad. But I’m sick of watching every game to conform to these people who want everything instantly for no effort. Though I have to say the biggest disappointment is the Guild Wars 2 developers. Developers who can’t stand behind their own design decisions which I think they achieved fairly well. What a massive bunch of cowards.

Now that I’ve said my words maybe I’ll be able to continue playing. I certainly wasn’t feeling like playing before I wrote this. Have a nice day everyone! See you in Tyria!

PS. Sorry for the spelling, structure, etc. Second forum post I’ve ever made.

They had to move quickly. The more time that passed means more players would possibly be affected by the changes. The fewer people, the more the solution can have short term problems. Like how the trait/skill system change caused players to get wacky builds. It only affected existing players who had higher level characters that weren’t level 80 yet, especially those in the 50-60 range I believe.

And if you read the blog post about the change, they didn’t change it because they had their minds changed on how many points was too many. They changed it because they didn’t communicate the elite spec process very well.

And the majority of players who were complaining are the ones with tons of alts they want to spec out, WvW players, and those wary of how willing players on the new maps would be in 6 months to help out a new player get the hero challenges that need a group.

Thanks for decreasing the specialization points. I was concerned that I would finish the story before I fully unlocked my druid. I was willing to earn my way to 400 but this change has opened up my possibilities. Rather than one character with a fully unlocked elite I will likely be able to choose among 4 when the raids come out. This will also give me more time to practice with the classes before jumping into the raids.

kuscheldrow.6415:

120 (the double of a usual spec) would have been perfect. People could have chosen to do them in central Tyria OR in Maguuma, which would have given us so much more freedom.

That is my feeling as well. Since I have never felt the pressing need to do map completion with every class I was doing the HP slog with all of them at the same time. No cheats like stealthing in, actually fighting whatever. Before HOT my highest HP on a single character was 120 (most were at 105 or slightly above) and, based on what I was seeing, 140 or so would have been about the end of soloable points.

I do not want to go into the jungle with a class I do not want to explore it with all so I can get the class that I DO want to explore it with. As it is right now I will have to do what a lot of people are doing: when the Halloween events end look for HP trains in LFG.

My big concern is anet is going “job well done everyone” and thinking 250 is reasonable. Read the forums from before we knew it would be more HP than were in central Tyria.

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

There is absolutely no pleasing some people, is there.

If you have a few toons – one of each profession, this 250 is easier to attain than the 400.
For those that have one profession for each race – or one profession for each gender and each race… you brought that whole thing on yourself. The development team is not required to make things easier for someone that has decided to have 10, 15 or 20+ toons.

They dropped the 400 to 250 and still you complain.

Of course 250 is easier than 400. The number 399 is less than 400 too, just as 10 is. Your point?

Look at it this way. GW2 encourages alts. Which makes sense given we are shelling out 10 USD for each one. Say an average altoholic has one of each class.

By what definition is 2250 hero points ‘easy’?

Menadena.7482:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

There is absolutely no pleasing some people, is there.

If you have a few toons – one of each profession, this 250 is easier to attain than the 400.
For those that have one profession for each race – or one profession for each gender and each race… you brought that whole thing on yourself. The development team is not required to make things easier for someone that has decided to have 10, 15 or 20+ toons.

They dropped the 400 to 250 and still you complain.

Of course 250 is easier than 400. The number 399 is less than 400 too, just as 10 is. Your point?

Look at it this way. GW2 encourages alts. Which makes sense given we are shelling out 10 USD for each one. Say an average altoholic has one of each class.

By what definition is 2250 hero points ‘easy’?

The comparison is poor. 250 is much easier than 450 as opposed to 399’s minutely so.

What do you think is fair? It is an Elite Spec which lets a normal class play in a different way. Do you think those should just be handed to you? Do you think just because people have several Alts (I have 16) that it should be cheap.

As I said earlier, no matter what they dropped the cost to, people would never be happy. I am glad to see that most others are happy with the drop and are recognizing that.

jheryn.8390:

Menadena.7482:

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

There is absolutely no pleasing some people, is there.

If you have a few toons – one of each profession, this 250 is easier to attain than the 400.
For those that have one profession for each race – or one profession for each gender and each race… you brought that whole thing on yourself. The development team is not required to make things easier for someone that has decided to have 10, 15 or 20+ toons.

They dropped the 400 to 250 and still you complain.

Of course 250 is easier than 400. The number 399 is less than 400 too, just as 10 is. Your point?

Look at it this way. GW2 encourages alts. Which makes sense given we are shelling out 10 USD for each one. Say an average altoholic has one of each class.

By what definition is 2250 hero points ‘easy’?

The comparison is poor. 250 is much easier than 450 as opposed to 399’s minutely so.

What do you think is fair? It is an Elite Spec which lets a normal class play in a different way. Do you think those should just be handed to you? Do you think just because people have several Alts (I have 16) that it should be cheap.

As I said earlier, no matter what they dropped the cost to, people would never be happy. I am glad to see that most others are happy with the drop and are recognizing that.

Where did 450 come from?

One more time, they are elite in name only. Some of them are not worth giving up a trait line. I still want the chance to try them all out to see which ones fit my playstyle though.

Since the specializations do not give inherent advantages I would say the exact amount every other trait line and skill ‘line’ would be fair. Which means 85-90. I could agree to 100 though.

There was a MASSIVE backlash to when 250 was datamined. Even the 170 for just the traits/skills seemed too high to be true to many. Before that most were guessing somewhere below world completion (which is 179 points, not 214) as that is what we were told.

Once again, all these are are just new mechanics. I bought HOT specifically for the new mechanics (which they were advertising heavily) and do not care for the new regions. Any of my characters that go there would be more like tourists there than not.