Guild Wars 2

The change allowed me to spend yesterday enjoying the game as a Herald, how that could be considered a bad thing I don’t know.

250 is a welcome change. You’re now making progress with each or every second hero challenge, not only with every third or even more. Thanks for that!

But that would’ve been enough for me. Toning down the HC themselves (or removing the mastery requirement of some) is a wrong move, making it too easy again (for example the two removed mastery-cap points in VB are now just two more walk there, commune, done.) If something is too hard, i continue and come back later, like i (and everyone) did in every rpg as of yet.

So: thanks for the 250 change but please don’t make the HC boring. They should be fun challenges after all, is that in a special requirement, event, enemy, adventurous way to get there or just that it’s tricky to find and discover at all.

Though I was enjoying the challenge of getting the Hero Points in the jungle I believe that ANeT made the right call. Overall, I love this new expansion. Challenging.

Menadena.7482:

jheryn.8390:

Menadena.7482:

Of course 250 is easier than 400. The number 399 is less than 400 too, just as 10 is. Your point?

Look at it this way. GW2 encourages alts. Which makes sense given we are shelling out 10 USD for each one. Say an average altoholic has one of each class.

By what definition is 2250 hero points ‘easy’?

The comparison is poor. 250 is much easier than 450 as opposed to 399’s minutely so.

Where did 450 come from?

One more time, they are elite in name only. Some of them are not worth giving up a trait line. I still want the chance to try them all out to see which ones fit my playstyle though.

Since the specializations do not give inherent advantages I would say the exact amount every other trait line and skill ‘line’ would be fair. Which means 85-90. I could agree to 100 though.

There was a MASSIVE backlash to when 250 was datamined. Even the 170 for just the traits/skills seemed too high to be true to many. Before that most were guessing somewhere below world completion (which is 179 points, not 214) as that is what we were told.

Once again, all these are are just new mechanics. I bought HOT specifically for the new mechanics (which they were advertising heavily) and do not care for the new regions. Any of my characters that go there would be more like tourists there than not.

LOL My bad on the 450. I did mean 400.

That is just the thing. They are elite because they allow you to play your classes differently than normally would play.

It really doesn’t say anything about it being more powerful. This wasn’t just about adding different skills, it allows classes the ability to access types of skills they wouldn’t normally have access to. It’s not about advantage it is about access.

And while I can tell that you would rather have it much cheaper, I am perfectly fine having it at 250. I think many others are satisfied with it too.

I like working toward something and not just (more or less) having it handed to me. To me even 100 points is to little. Of course, that is just my take.

I have already reported this to anet. Hero point completion of Revenant’s elite specialization, Herald, does not activate it.

No Herald skills, no Herald function.

Update: It is activated now. Herald start up will only show up in bottom specialization bar and you have to turn it on. Other wise it does not show up in other bars and function.

As I have voiced my opinion on this matter in a negative light prior to the change, and have now experienced the change I feel it’s appropriate to update my stance on it.

I like the numerical change to the requirements. I think it satisfies me. It makes it lesser of a grind for WvW. I have to say, and solely for WvW, it didn’t fix the core issue of the system employed in my opinion. It makes it easier but it still just encourages players to zerg and karma train to get their elite spec if they only play WvW. There is no retroactivity for someone of a high rank in WvW (while there is retroactivity for pve from tyria map completion) and they are just repeating the same thing they’ve always done so it doesn’t feel like character progression anyway. All these unspent and futile points I have accumulated from ranking up grow to no use at all.
I really would have appreciated a system that lets you spend your rank up pts towards those scrolls. That would have been better for the WvW community. And I don’t mean to imply it wouldn’t have it’s issues but I am of the opinion that it would simply be a better system for WvW players.

Mind you I am actually having a lot of fun in PvE and as of today, getting the HP needed doesn’t feel like a chore anymore even though it is my focus. I can see how the current solo difficulty can be worrisome especially when we think about the future and having to rely on other players there to help but I don’t think the content is that hard or an issue outside of Verdant Brink. With Verdant brink’s verticality and most of the challenge being more related to getting to the hero point, I would’ve expected those to be easier than the ones below. I do not understand why the bat beast hero point in verdant brink is high up there and hard to reach while we have easy to use commune points in the most obvious places (this is just one of the example – and I think keeping one more challenging HP above wouldn’t be an issue either though). I think that’s my issue with the difficulty. It’s more of an inconsistent choice of where to put the challenge. Verdant Brink is the introductory map to HoT, yet it’s HP challenges do not reflect it (and please read carefully I am not asking for it to be easy, just more appropriate to the situation).
If we think about the future and the harder it is gonna be to gain enough people to complete these HP without having to post on LFG or get your friends to help you, the more illogical it makes it for me to place those HP in such non-traffic areas.

But overall I appreciate the current difficulty of the HP challenges. I haven’t found one that was plainly too hard for 2 people. (I think the vampire beast in verdant brink, arrowhead in auric basin and the zintl nuhoch in tangled depths were the hardest for 2 people)

Astralporing.1957:

Behellagh.1468:

kuscheldrow.6415:

Behellagh.1468:

Samnang.1879:

I have like tons of classes.

I can’t spend time doing the same thing for all those classes… Please consider dropping the value of hero points needed… 250 is still a lot for someone who has like 7 or 8 classes, and want to play elite spec for all of them.

Or if you make hero points; make some hero points have 50 point value worth…. but more challenging or whatever.

Don’t want to waypoint everywhere doing boring things just to play elite spec :/

They can’t drop it much below 250 or those who map completed Tyria, which is needed if you were crafting legendary weapons, could unlock them completely since that gives them just north of 210 HP.

And? They completed Tyria. That should be fair enough. O.o
Plus I’d rather have people on the Maguuma maps that are dedicated and helping to do the map events than being on a map with only heropoint jumpers because they’re FORCED to. Plus the choice whether we do HPs in Tyria OR Maguuma should be ours.

But it shouldn’t be 50 HP as Samnang suggested. The standard Specialization is 60 HP. Then you toss in the various utility, heal and elite skills the ES gets, and the skins/gear (not sure if it’s actual gear) and you are probably over 100 HP and that’s before the “elite” tax and an unlock cost because it shouldn’t be free for a new set of weapon skills and profession mechanics.

The original datamined value was 175, if i remember correctly. Not sure why Anet decided to change it that much later on – maybe they were afraid that players won’t like the new zones enough, and felt the need to increase pressure to play them. I have no idea, but it still was a bad choice – a reasoning like that would have led to new elites costing in 1000-s of HPs in future expansions.

Funny thing, it’s not the first time it happened – remember when they had to rebalance hp costs of skills and traits from their original plan in the new trait system? It was exactly the same situation. One would have thought they might have learned something from the first case.

Honestly that’s the problem with datamining, too few understand the concept of placeholder values and text. If I was ANet I would intentionally troll the dataminers to discredit them since they either ruin story surprises or start controversies that wouldn’t exit otherwise.

Behellagh.1468:

Astralporing.1957:

Behellagh.1468:

kuscheldrow.6415:

Behellagh.1468:

Samnang.1879:

I have like tons of classes.

I can’t spend time doing the same thing for all those classes… Please consider dropping the value of hero points needed… 250 is still a lot for someone who has like 7 or 8 classes, and want to play elite spec for all of them.

Or if you make hero points; make some hero points have 50 point value worth…. but more challenging or whatever.

Don’t want to waypoint everywhere doing boring things just to play elite spec :/

They can’t drop it much below 250 or those who map completed Tyria, which is needed if you were crafting legendary weapons, could unlock them completely since that gives them just north of 210 HP.

And? They completed Tyria. That should be fair enough. O.o
Plus I’d rather have people on the Maguuma maps that are dedicated and helping to do the map events than being on a map with only heropoint jumpers because they’re FORCED to. Plus the choice whether we do HPs in Tyria OR Maguuma should be ours.

But it shouldn’t be 50 HP as Samnang suggested. The standard Specialization is 60 HP. Then you toss in the various utility, heal and elite skills the ES gets, and the skins/gear (not sure if it’s actual gear) and you are probably over 100 HP and that’s before the “elite” tax and an unlock cost because it shouldn’t be free for a new set of weapon skills and profession mechanics.

The original datamined value was 175, if i remember correctly. Not sure why Anet decided to change it that much later on – maybe they were afraid that players won’t like the new zones enough, and felt the need to increase pressure to play them. I have no idea, but it still was a bad choice – a reasoning like that would have led to new elites costing in 1000-s of HPs in future expansions.

Funny thing, it’s not the first time it happened – remember when they had to rebalance hp costs of skills and traits from their original plan in the new trait system? It was exactly the same situation. One would have thought they might have learned something from the first case.

Honestly that’s the problem with datamining, too few understand the concept of placeholder values and text. If I was ANet I would intentionally troll the dataminers to discredit them since they either ruin story surprises or start controversies that wouldn’t exit otherwise.

and thus cause more controversies and failure to meet expectations.
anets desire for secrecy is not helping them make a better game. Straight up asking or saying we plan for elites to require you to complete sizable chunk of the new maps/content, would have saved time if they had to change it, or at least set expectations.
the solution was a bandaid number tweak, its not really the best solution to their goal which was incentivizing completing the area, while also not seeming off putting

phys.7689:

Behellagh.1468:

Astralporing.1957:

Behellagh.1468:

kuscheldrow.6415:

Behellagh.1468:

Samnang.1879:

I have like tons of classes.

I can’t spend time doing the same thing for all those classes… Please consider dropping the value of hero points needed… 250 is still a lot for someone who has like 7 or 8 classes, and want to play elite spec for all of them.

Or if you make hero points; make some hero points have 50 point value worth…. but more challenging or whatever.

Don’t want to waypoint everywhere doing boring things just to play elite spec :/

They can’t drop it much below 250 or those who map completed Tyria, which is needed if you were crafting legendary weapons, could unlock them completely since that gives them just north of 210 HP.

And? They completed Tyria. That should be fair enough. O.o
Plus I’d rather have people on the Maguuma maps that are dedicated and helping to do the map events than being on a map with only heropoint jumpers because they’re FORCED to. Plus the choice whether we do HPs in Tyria OR Maguuma should be ours.

But it shouldn’t be 50 HP as Samnang suggested. The standard Specialization is 60 HP. Then you toss in the various utility, heal and elite skills the ES gets, and the skins/gear (not sure if it’s actual gear) and you are probably over 100 HP and that’s before the “elite” tax and an unlock cost because it shouldn’t be free for a new set of weapon skills and profession mechanics.

The original datamined value was 175, if i remember correctly. Not sure why Anet decided to change it that much later on – maybe they were afraid that players won’t like the new zones enough, and felt the need to increase pressure to play them. I have no idea, but it still was a bad choice – a reasoning like that would have led to new elites costing in 1000-s of HPs in future expansions.

Funny thing, it’s not the first time it happened – remember when they had to rebalance hp costs of skills and traits from their original plan in the new trait system? It was exactly the same situation. One would have thought they might have learned something from the first case.

Honestly that’s the problem with datamining, too few understand the concept of placeholder values and text. If I was ANet I would intentionally troll the dataminers to discredit them since they either ruin story surprises or start controversies that wouldn’t exit otherwise.

and thus cause more controversies and failure to meet expectations.
anets desire for secrecy is not helping them make a better game. Straight up asking or saying we plan for elites to require you to complete sizable chunk of the new maps/content, would have saved time if they had to change it, or at least set expectations.
the solution was a bandaid number tweak, its not really the best solution to their goal which was incentivizing completing the area, while also not seeming off putting

No because putting in obviously placeholder numbers, artwork and flavor text would make datamined info worthless. Remember those paper bag helms? Bet they were placeholder icons.

phys.7689:

Behellagh.1468:

Astralporing.1957:

Behellagh.1468:

kuscheldrow.6415:

Behellagh.1468:

Samnang.1879:

I have like tons of classes.

I can’t spend time doing the same thing for all those classes… Please consider dropping the value of hero points needed… 250 is still a lot for someone who has like 7 or 8 classes, and want to play elite spec for all of them.

Or if you make hero points; make some hero points have 50 point value worth…. but more challenging or whatever.

Don’t want to waypoint everywhere doing boring things just to play elite spec :/

They can’t drop it much below 250 or those who map completed Tyria, which is needed if you were crafting legendary weapons, could unlock them completely since that gives them just north of 210 HP.

And? They completed Tyria. That should be fair enough. O.o
Plus I’d rather have people on the Maguuma maps that are dedicated and helping to do the map events than being on a map with only heropoint jumpers because they’re FORCED to. Plus the choice whether we do HPs in Tyria OR Maguuma should be ours.

But it shouldn’t be 50 HP as Samnang suggested. The standard Specialization is 60 HP. Then you toss in the various utility, heal and elite skills the ES gets, and the skins/gear (not sure if it’s actual gear) and you are probably over 100 HP and that’s before the “elite” tax and an unlock cost because it shouldn’t be free for a new set of weapon skills and profession mechanics.

The original datamined value was 175, if i remember correctly. Not sure why Anet decided to change it that much later on – maybe they were afraid that players won’t like the new zones enough, and felt the need to increase pressure to play them. I have no idea, but it still was a bad choice – a reasoning like that would have led to new elites costing in 1000-s of HPs in future expansions.

Funny thing, it’s not the first time it happened – remember when they had to rebalance hp costs of skills and traits from their original plan in the new trait system? It was exactly the same situation. One would have thought they might have learned something from the first case.

Honestly that’s the problem with datamining, too few understand the concept of placeholder values and text. If I was ANet I would intentionally troll the dataminers to discredit them since they either ruin story surprises or start controversies that wouldn’t exit otherwise.

and thus cause more controversies and failure to meet expectations.
anets desire for secrecy is not helping them make a better game. Straight up asking or saying we plan for elites to require you to complete sizable chunk of the new maps/content, would have saved time if they had to change it, or at least set expectations.
the solution was a bandaid number tweak, its not really the best solution to their goal which was incentivizing completing the area, while also not seeming off putting

Basically this, secrecy only ensures you make your players stop trusting you. When the 175 number was datamined and the reaction rom THAT number was as severe as it was, it should have been a huge clue that going higher than that was NOT a smart choice. As for the “but then people with map completion could instantly unlock it all” crowd. I respond with “yeah, so?” they put in the extra work they did not have to so they should reap the rewards for doing so. BTW, I only did map completion on a character I will NOT be getting the elite with. So yeah…it would have prevented nothing for me.

Trust? So players trust dataminers over the devs is what you are saying. When players cry out the devs can simply post “placeholder” and this way it’ll still be a surprise when a patch drops.

Behellagh.1468:

Trust? So players trust dataminers over the devs is what you are saying. When players cry out the devs can simply post “placeholder” and this way it’ll still be a surprise when a patch drops.

Any data found in the client was put there by a developer… If you’ve got an early reveal of the amount of HP needed I’d love to see it. Absent any official info from ANet, the only things people had to go on were the data mining and the cost of core spec lines.

Dremars.6849:

I am extremely and utterly disappointed by ArenaNet’s actions to reduce the hero point value from 400 to 250 so early into expansion.

First of all, I have to completely disagree that 400 HP was high at all. On launch day I started my Revenant with lvl30 scroll and 38 Tomes of Knowledge and leveled to 80 to get access to HoT content.

Stop right there!

Why – if levelling is so much fun and you feel you have achieved something – did you use a scroll and tomes to get to 80? Sound like a contradiction!

Well, maybe you did it because you felt that the old content was no longer that interesting and wanted to get at the new content fast. Understandable … but now … please allow us – those “us” that have a lot of alts – to peep behind the ovious and see that while it would be fun (and new, and challenging) to level the first char through HoT with 400 points it would become booooring if you did it on your 10th character.

And since there are no scrolls or tomes to bypass the HP need in HoT, we can’t do what you did and speed things up … we’d have to crawl our way through those 400 HP – again, and again, and again … doesn’t sound that much fun and challenging now, does it? So "we"’re very happy about the change (though some problems still persist) because “we” see now what you saw when you yourself bypassed the 1-80 levelling but what you didn’t see for the 1-400 HP levelling.

I feel sorry for you that it somehow spoiled your experience but I can tell you that the way it was before surely did spoil my experience.

Given that the new specializations do not (on average) give you an advantage over the average ‘classic’ 9 specializations can anyone explain to me why they are worth 250 HP?

Sure, I would love to try them but 250 is still steep. I could MAYBE see it if we got a fourth trait line, but as it is we have to give up one.

Menadena.7482:

Given that the new specializations do not (on average) give you an advantage over the average ‘classic’ 9 specializations can anyone explain to me why they are worth 250 HP?

Sure, I would love to try them but 250 is still steep. I could MAYBE see it if we got a fourth trait line, but as it is we have to give up one.

Depends on class and playstyle. I LOVE the reaper on my power Necro and in teamplay the Chronomancer really shines. Don’t (personally) see anything in the druid and Dragonhunter isn’t really what I could use the way I play my Guardian. Can’t say too much about the others … oh … Herold … it’s nice in group play for the Revenant.

I am not looking forward to this grind. I get the time spent and the slow unlock but with limited time it is as boring as watching paint dry to do this. So people can have opinions whether they like the new way they do things or not. I can only see it through my eyes. Eating up this much play time is just silly.