Guild Wars 2

Would it have been better if the Elite Specs had been separate from the new weapons introduced to each class?

I want to hear other people’s opinions of this because I feel like the Dragonhunter elite spec for Guardian came about because they wanted to give them a proper ranged weapon (longbow) and realised later that they needed to build an elite spec around that, hence the Dragonhunter theme. This as opposed to the Chronomancer which seems to gel better because the shield weapon was an afterthought (looks like a clock?).

So here’s the thing, would it have been better if they just introduced a new weapon to every class as one feature, and then introduced Elite Specs as a separate feature. So when a class selects an Elite Spec it changes the weapon skills of the one corresponding weapon & introduces the new utility skills.

This way, the Guardian could have had longbow as a ranged weapon and an Elite Spec like Paragon which can utilize a staff and the fancy new weapon skin at the end of the reward track could make the staff look like a spear (that is of course if Anet has no plans of making land spears).

They are planning on adding more elite specs. After a while, and if the followed your model, every base profession would have access to all weapons.

Also, under the current system, it makes the elite spec more of a meaningful choice. As new ones release it will not just be trait lines and utilities, but choosing which weapons to use since you will only be able to slot a single elite spec at a time.

RabbitUp.8294:

They are planning on adding more elite specs. After a while, and if the followed your model, every base profession would have access to all weapons.

Surely by ArenaNet’s model of needing to introduce an Elite Spec which uses a new weapon we’d have necros using a pistol/rifle at somepoint?

My model means that introducing new weapons and Elite Specs are separate. So ArenaNet can introduce new Elite Specs without needing to introduce new weapons.

So for example an Elementalist could get access to mainhand sword base class and for their Elite Spec become a Ritualist which changes the weapon skills for staff when traited.

Ranatoa.4869:

Also, under the current system, it makes the elite spec more of a meaningful choice. As new ones release it will not just be trait lines and utilities, but choosing which weapons to use since you will only be able to slot a single elite spec at a time.

Elite Specs will still be meaningful as it still augments your skills/provides traits. So Guardian base class could have access to the longbow (and have basic guardian skills like skill1 – normal autoattack, skill2 – creates a regen symbol, skill3 – blind shot, etc.), but only once you’ve traited into Dragonhunter Elite Spec the weapon skills for longbow will change to what they are now (skill1 – Puncture Shot, skill2 – True Shot, skill3 – Deflecting Shot, etc.) and have access to the traps and synergy with the traits.

The problem with releasing elite specs separately is that any traits relating to the new weap will then be needed to be added to original traits. Too many changes already happening to old traits I rather new weap traits be added to new specs that would use the new weap.

Achrisos.1360:

The problem with releasing elite specs separately is that any traits relating to the new weap will then be needed to be added to original traits. Too many changes already happening to old traits I rather new weap traits be added to new specs that would use the new weap.

True, it would require them to rewrite or introduce new traits, but since they’re changing the trait system heavily anyway why not.
And they could try to build synergy with existing traits or with themselves, so with the Guardian base class longbow example, a skill could create a symbol to make use of ‘Symbolic Avenger’, a skill could grant long retaliation to make use of ‘Retribution’, the longbow autoattack could grant stacks of Might. The base damage could also reflect the lack of 5-10% damage multiplier trait you usually see with other weapons.

Chun.1970:

RabbitUp.8294:

They are planning on adding more elite specs. After a while, and if the followed your model, every base profession would have access to all weapons.

Surely by ArenaNet’s model of needing to introduce an Elite Spec which uses a new weapon we’d have necros using a pistol/rifle at somepoint?

My model means that introducing new weapons and Elite Specs are separate. So ArenaNet can introduce new Elite Specs without needing to introduce new weapons.

So for example an Elementalist could get access to mainhand sword base class and for their Elite Spec become a Ritualist which changes the weapon skills for staff when traited.

It’s possible that, yes, future specs might not all come with a new weapon. But, unless I misunderstood, you said that when a new weapon is introduced (like with this wave of elite specs), it should be added to the base profession.

That would mean that the next Mesmer elite spec would have access to the Shield, which is not something that Anet wants, as it would remove any opportunity costs.

RabbitUp.8294:

Chun.1970:

RabbitUp.8294:

They are planning on adding more elite specs. After a while, and if the followed your model, every base profession would have access to all weapons.

Surely by ArenaNet’s model of needing to introduce an Elite Spec which uses a new weapon we’d have necros using a pistol/rifle at somepoint?

My model means that introducing new weapons and Elite Specs are separate. So ArenaNet can introduce new Elite Specs without needing to introduce new weapons.

So for example an Elementalist could get access to mainhand sword base class and for their Elite Spec become a Ritualist which changes the weapon skills for staff when traited.

It’s possible that, yes, future specs might not all come with a new weapon. But, unless I misunderstood, you said that when a new weapon is introduced (like with this wave of elite specs), it should be added to the base profession.

That would mean that the next Mesmer elite spec would have access to the Shield, which is not something that Anet wants, as it would remove any opportunity costs.

Yes that’s what I meant, new weapons being added to the base profession.

I don’t quite understand your second paragraph, are you saying that Anet doesn’t want Mesmer base profession to have access to the Shield because it would remove any opportunity costs (what are opportunity costs)?

The only reason I can think of Anet not wanting to let base professions have access to a certain weapon is because it might put people off from using an Elite spec. So if Guardian base prof. had access to longbow already, players might not spec into Dragonhunter because it’s not necessary.

That’s why I proposed the idea that the longbow skills would change depending on if you’re a Dragonhunter or just a Guardian. It’s all situational in the end just like it is now, the player needs to decide if the Dragonhunter longbow skills, virtues, traits and traps are better for their current situation or base prof. longbow skills are sufficient.

Chun.1970:

RabbitUp.8294:

Chun.1970:

RabbitUp.8294:

They are planning on adding more elite specs. After a while, and if the followed your model, every base profession would have access to all weapons.

Surely by ArenaNet’s model of needing to introduce an Elite Spec which uses a new weapon we’d have necros using a pistol/rifle at somepoint?

My model means that introducing new weapons and Elite Specs are separate. So ArenaNet can introduce new Elite Specs without needing to introduce new weapons.

So for example an Elementalist could get access to mainhand sword base class and for their Elite Spec become a Ritualist which changes the weapon skills for staff when traited.

It’s possible that, yes, future specs might not all come with a new weapon. But, unless I misunderstood, you said that when a new weapon is introduced (like with this wave of elite specs), it should be added to the base profession.

That would mean that the next Mesmer elite spec would have access to the Shield, which is not something that Anet wants, as it would remove any opportunity costs.

Yes that’s what I meant, new weapons being added to the base profession.

I don’t quite understand your second paragraph, are you saying that Anet doesn’t want Mesmer base profession to have access to the Shield because it would remove any opportunity costs (what are opportunity costs)?

The only reason I can think of Anet not wanting to let base professions have access to a certain weapon is because it might put people off from using an Elite spec. So if Guardian base prof. had access to longbow already, players might not spec into Dragonhunter because it’s not necessary.

That’s why I proposed the idea that the longbow skills would change depending on if you’re a Dragonhunter or just a Guardian. It’s all situational in the end just like it is now, the player needs to decide if the Dragonhunter longbow skills, virtues, traits and traps are better for their current situation or base prof. longbow skills are sufficient.

Why would they want to make two sets of skills for the same weapon, to appease the idea that the weapon should be added to the base profession? As far as I can tell, part of the point of the new weapons being tied to the elite spec has to do with the fundamentals of what the weapon means for that class. Lots of classes use weapons that might seem odd for them (I.E. Mesmer, Swords. Necro, Warhorn/Axe), but these are all reflections of different ways a necromancer might express how they want to fight. Specialization, in essence, focuses this idea. Many of the basic trait lines focus on certain sets, and the elite spec is no different in this regard. It is just a matter of the elite specialization being ‘new’ to the class, a new mentality to fighting as a (insert class) and so that new way of fighting is represented with a new weapon. In your outlook of weapon skills changing based on spec, it would then be a logical progression to say all weapon skills should change based on specialization, not just the new ones, and that is a silly amount of work when the current method makes perfect sense.

Ceit.7619:

Chun.1970:

RabbitUp.8294:

Chun.1970:

RabbitUp.8294:

They are planning on adding more elite specs. After a while, and if the followed your model, every base profession would have access to all weapons.

Surely by ArenaNet’s model of needing to introduce an Elite Spec which uses a new weapon we’d have necros using a pistol/rifle at somepoint?

My model means that introducing new weapons and Elite Specs are separate. So ArenaNet can introduce new Elite Specs without needing to introduce new weapons.

So for example an Elementalist could get access to mainhand sword base class and for their Elite Spec become a Ritualist which changes the weapon skills for staff when traited.

It’s possible that, yes, future specs might not all come with a new weapon. But, unless I misunderstood, you said that when a new weapon is introduced (like with this wave of elite specs), it should be added to the base profession.

That would mean that the next Mesmer elite spec would have access to the Shield, which is not something that Anet wants, as it would remove any opportunity costs.

Yes that’s what I meant, new weapons being added to the base profession.

I don’t quite understand your second paragraph, are you saying that Anet doesn’t want Mesmer base profession to have access to the Shield because it would remove any opportunity costs (what are opportunity costs)?

The only reason I can think of Anet not wanting to let base professions have access to a certain weapon is because it might put people off from using an Elite spec. So if Guardian base prof. had access to longbow already, players might not spec into Dragonhunter because it’s not necessary.

That’s why I proposed the idea that the longbow skills would change depending on if you’re a Dragonhunter or just a Guardian. It’s all situational in the end just like it is now, the player needs to decide if the Dragonhunter longbow skills, virtues, traits and traps are better for their current situation or base prof. longbow skills are sufficient.

Why would they want to make two sets of skills for the same weapon, to appease the idea that the weapon should be added to the base profession? As far as I can tell, part of the point of the new weapons being tied to the elite spec has to do with the fundamentals of what the weapon means for that class. Lots of classes use weapons that might seem odd for them (I.E. Mesmer, Swords. Necro, Warhorn/Axe), but these are all reflections of different ways a necromancer might express how they want to fight. Specialization, in essence, focuses this idea. Many of the basic trait lines focus on certain sets, and the elite spec is no different in this regard. It is just a matter of the elite specialization being ‘new’ to the class, a new mentality to fighting as a (insert class) and so that new way of fighting is represented with a new weapon. In your outlook of weapon skills changing based on spec, it would then be a logical progression to say all weapon skills should change based on specialization, not just the new ones, and that is a silly amount of work when the current method makes perfect sense.

The idea of having two sets of skills for the same weapon isn’t to appease adding them to base professions, it’s to allow for more and better fitting Elite Specializations. So instead of classes being forced to use the remaining weapons they don’t yet have access to, they can use any weapon available. So instead of Anet wanting to give the Guardian the Paragon elite spec, but realising all they have access to are bows and guns, they can reuse the staff and have the weapon skills change when the Paragon elite spec is traited to work alongside the elite spec’s mechanics.

I don’t see why the logical progression needs to be all weapon skills changing based on the specialization, for now only the weapons which are reused for an elite spec needs to change.

About the current method making perfect sense, I never said it didn’t, but I hope that Anet don’t end up needing to work even more trying to justify the potential next next warrior elite spec – ‘the Minionthrower, a warrior who fights by throwing scepters at dragonminions’, when instead they could of had the Berserker, or the Knight, or something more imaginative than that and able to use axes, swords, or greatswords.

I agree with the OP that giving an exclusive weapon to the elite specialization for the sake of doing so does seem a bit limiting. It’s probably not a bad thing when you have a profession like the Warrior with access to a wide range of weapons. But with the Engineer it is limiting that the only time they get new weapons to their original three is through elite specializations. It would be further compounded if they came up with the rule that you can only have one elite specialization at a time. Not such a problem at the moment but could be limiting in the future.

But yeah the Dragonhunter does seem to be overly bound by their use of the longbow. The other specializations seem to either take or leave their new weapons while the DH is built around the range that the longbow gives plus its’ skills seem a little more suited to the type of combat the DH offers than other ranged options. Would have been nice if a spec like the Dragonhunter was designed to embrace more than just their new weapon, with the new weapon being merely a bonus. There are some pre-existing ranged weapons like the Staff, Scepter or Focus that could have been shown to be used by the Dragonhunter. I can’t really comment any further without seeing it for myself but I hope that the longbow isn’t the most viable weapon for the Dragonhunter but that there other viable long ranged options. Kinda like how the Chronomancer’s use of the shield doesn’t encourage scepter or sword but either.