Guild Wars 2

There has been a continuous train of complaints surrounding nearly every specialization release that has, quite frankly, grown bothersome. And there is simply no excuse for it.

Why did we get an off-hand?"

At what point was it established that off-hand weapons are in any way bad?

The fact that Anet has to apologize for giving a profession an offhand weapon or “make up for it” by promising extra special mechanics is not a good thing. It reeks of, as much as I hate to say it, entitlement.

They don’t owe you anything just because they gave you an off-hand. In fact, off-hands are great. Sure, they don’t carry the five skills of a two-handed weapon, but they provide for more potential builds, granting the class more potential combinations depending on how many mainhand weapons the class has. This applies double to the Thief, who gets extra interesting mileage out of any new offhands or mainhands in the form of dual skills.

Why did we get this? We need that!"

Well, too bad. For every player complaining about Guardian longbow, someone else really wanted it. It’s a good concept that will give the Guardian new aesthetics and new options. A lot of people really want melee staff on the Thief.

The principle here is that taste is a subjective matter. Do you know what I want on a future Necromancer specialization? Torch. Yes, torch. I LOVE torches and think they are horribly underutilized. Is that by any means a popular opinion? Probably not, but it has merit and it can be used to interesting effects.

At the end of the day, if you like an elite spec’s weapon, rejoice. If you don’t like it, give thanks for the option of wielding it and wait for the one you do want. Chances are, you Elementalists will get your sword eventually, if not the next pass around. Same for you Mesmers and your mainhand pistols and you Warriors with your dagger.

But it isn’t a new role! They promised a new role!"

The kitten they did! At no point did they promise a new role. They promised that it would be profession-changing.

And this is the point that you Elementalists are missing. No, you haven’t been given a new role, but you have been given a new means of playing your existing role. You’ve been given additional build variety. You have relatively viable new utilities that aren’t Cantrips. You have a means of giving out AoE auras without rolling Water. You have a new mechanic that actually incentivizes dedicating yourself to one attunement for a fair amount of time. And while this new mechanic (Overloads) isn’t particularly viable in standard PvP settings, it could really do work in tandem with a Jalis Revenant or a well-used Armor of Earth.

All of this is profession changing. You don’t need to pull out an entirely new role to change.

And while the Eles complain that they haven’t changed, many Guards complain that they have!

This is just baffling. The Dragonhunter and longbow are rejected by quite a few Guardians for being such an outlier to the traditional Guardian style – the opposite of why the Elementalists are ranting about Tempest.

The wonderful thing about the Dragonhunter is that it takes a profession that has a strong role and provides a viable alternative. It complements every single core specialization for the Guardian, and yet it doesn’t feel overwhelming or required like a certain Chronomancer does. It is, with the exception of the Herald, perhaps the best-designed elite specialization to be revealed thus far, and I think it is to be applauded for its simultaneous simplicity and elegance. It stays within the Guardian themes while really bringing a new way of playing them.

The message

If you want a good concept, let the developers have some fun. Sure, submit your own ideas. Give your own thoughts, and express your wishes, but when they roll out something as unique as a sound-based Elementalist, don’t just dismiss the whole thing outright because it isn’t what you wanted, when you wanted it, and with the exact right kind of giftwrap. They’ve given you something that they wanted to see added to their game, hoping that you would love it. They’ve worked hard and given you something different and put the effort into making it something that they are proud to show.

Your job is to play with the new toy, figure out how it fits with your profession, how it expands what your profession is capable of, where it fits in the overall game, and how it feels to play.

Some of these elite specializations change the role of the class. Some give you new ways of playing existing roles. Some bring popular weapon types. Some help to expand the popularity of under-appreciated weapon types like torches.

What all elite specializations have in common, however, is that they are a passionate gift from the developers to the community.

An excellent summation.

I’ll state this: I am incredibly bothered by the notion of melee Staff on Thieves. I hate it, I feel very strongly that it’s just about the last thing the Thief needs, and I’ve fought strenuously to advance arguments to that effect while things are still, at least theoretically, up in the air.

When this new ‘Dare Devil’ shows up, with its melee Staff and its Physical utilities, and is pretty much oh-for-three on everything I was hoping and praying I’d get out of a Thief elite spec…well, I’ll play it and provide what feedback I can next BWE, because it’s what we’re getting.

There comes a point where pitching fits over not getting what you wanted is counterproductive to everyone. Recognize that point, accept it gracefully, and either decide to pass on the elite spec for your class – after all, you wouldn’t be playing your class if you weren’t already pretty fond of its base capabilities – and just hope that the next one three years from now will turn out more your style.

They can’t please everyone, and sometimes ‘everyone’ means you. Help make the Tempest or the Durganpoker or the Reaper better, but at this stage there’s no point in trying to get them removed and replaced. They’re what you’re getting – best make them as good as they can be.

Before you continue to spread missinformation:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

But it isn’t a new role! They promised a new role!"

The kitten they did! At no point did they promise a new role. They promised that it would be profession-changing.

From: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-first-beta-weekend-event-begins-august-7/

Question posed to players as important feedback on the elite specialization: “Do the elite specializations feel like they are creating an entirely new role for your main profession?”

Well look at that huh? Why the kitten would they ask that if that wasn’t one of the objectives?

Duke Blackrose.4981:

*What all elite specializations have in common, however, is that they are a passionate gift from the developers to the community.

Passionate gifts that cost you $50 dollars?

People really need to stop treating devs as deities or putting them into pedestals. THEY AREN’T.

In fact some people even consider them as “friends”. When they even completely ignore their profession forums (Roy being the exception) and when they come out and post something it is completely alienated from the position of the community.

Check the BWE changes Elementalist topic and why people are so kittened at it – one reason – They ignored the main concerns of the community and throw some numbers at it. They threw high numbers here and there and that just furthers the point that the issue was never numbers, but rather the mechanic, the fact that it brings nothing that the class couldn’t already do.

Elementalists are kittened off, and rightly so, because we wanted something new. We wanted our new role. We passed several feedback in hopes that the devs would listen.

They didn’t give kitten about it.

Yes Azel, the Tempest isn’t a new role for the Elementalist. Pretty much everyone agrees.

The thrust of it is that it’s too late in the process for them to rip the Tempest out and replace it completely, the way the Elementalist community wants. They can’t do it, not without unacceptable delays in HoT’s release or unacceptably not launching HoT with an Elementalist elite spec. You can’t get it changed out for the Sword ultraburst spec PvP players wanted out of the elite spec, so why keep pitching fits over it? Better to work with what you have, make it as good as it can be, and hope against hope that ArenaNet remembers the backlash when the next set of elite specs rolls out.

Better yet, simply state – calmly, reasonably, and rationally – that you won’t play the Tempest, and here’s why. If the elite spec gets low usage numbers, that’s an enormously better clue to ArenaNet that the new spec is not what the Elementalist community wanted than any number of angry, rage-roiding rants on the forums.

Again, I’m a Thief player. I’m getting a melee staff and Physical utilities. I, actually literally, already have those, exactly the same way as you already have frontline group support on the Elementalist. S/P does everything melee Staff could reasonably be expected to do, and between Tricks and Deceptions we already have all the parkour and weird control stuff Physicals could bring.

Doesn’t matter.

It’s too late to change the Tempest, it’s too late to change the Daredevil. We either work with what we’ve got, or we pitch fits and relinquish any chance we might have otherwise had to at least mitigate the damage, and hope we’re heard for the next round of elite specs in three more years. Yeah, it sucks, but it’s the best we can do.

Angry, rage-roid rants are not.

I think part of the problem is that what players consider a “role” and what devs consider a “role” aren’t always the same thing.

Many players seem to be looking at it from a meta perspective. DPS-based, condition-based, tank-based, ect. Whereas the devs don’t always seem to consider it in those terms, but rather in more broad ways or overall concepts of gameplay. So the devs might look and say “Yeah, that’s a unique role separate from the normal gameplay of the profession”, the players might not see the same thing.

For example, the devs seem to see Tempest as a different role because it incentivizes specific frontline positioning and hanging in attunements for longer periods of time rather than the usual Elementalist attune-dancing. But players looking at it from a meta perspective just see “another frontline support set”.

In regards to Tempest specifically as well, I kind of find it funny that so many people are opposed to the core concept of cutting down attunement dancing. I remember at launch there were frequent posts requesting the devs to cut back on the need to attune-swap constantly and let people specialize in one specific element. And yet now, when they’re doing exactly that both with Tempest as well as some of the changes to core specs (at least to some extent) people are like “F no, we don’t want that! We need attunement swapping!”. Granted, the rewards aren’t at all there yet to actually properly incentivize staying in one element, but so many people seem opposed to the very concept itself now that people have gotten used to the “norm” of attune dancing.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

And this is the point that you Elementalists are missing. No, you haven’t been given a new role, but you have been given a new means of playing your existing role. You’ve been given additional build variety. You have relatively viable new utilities that aren’t Cantrips. You have a means of giving out AoE auras without rolling Water. You have a new mechanic that actually incentivizes dedicating yourself to one attunement for a fair amount of time. And while this new mechanic (Overloads) isn’t particularly viable in standard PvP settings, it could really do work in tandem with a Jalis Revenant or a well-used Armor of Earth.
[…]
And while the Eles complain that they haven’t changed, many Guards complain that they have!

This is just baffling. The Dragonhunter and longbow are rejected by quite a few Guardians for being such an outlier to the traditional Guardian style – the opposite of why the Elementalists are ranting about Tempest.
[…]
What all elite specializations have in common, however, is that they are a passionate gift from the developers to the community.

Wrong just wrong. Tempest may be playable in PvE but will not be effective in PvP, WvW or high level PvE. Its conceptually flawed, being unusable with the main weapon for WvW and PvE. And the utilities will not be used in those areas at all.

The issue with DH has always been the concept not meshing with the general class concept and the utilities being completely flawed. That hasn’t changed.

And lastly it is hardly a gift when we are paying an exorbitant amount for an xpac.

morrolan.9608:

And lastly it is hardly a gift when we are paying an exorbitant amount for an xpac.

What is exorbitant?

$50 is pretty standard for an MMO expac that has a subscription involved. Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, has been an insane money value for the past three years. No subscription fee for a AAA MMO that can easily provide thousands of hours worth of content? Not what I would consider exhorbitant.

I would have gladly paid $100 for it. And I did. Because I don’t kitten about prices. I appreciate an opportunity to get more out of my game and support a game that I’ve gotten well over three thousand hours and counting out of.

Not to mention we aren’t even evaluating this expansion based on known content, because we simply do not actually know the extent of content we’ll actually be receiving. We’re simply speculating.

Though I’ve actually miscommunicated my point here.

Gift as I mean it is not something given for free.

Gift here, as I intend it, means that they are listening to a long-term wish on the part of the community – to expand the playability of their class. We’ve begged for more build options. We’ve begged for more weapons, skills, utilities, and traits.

And they are giving us a means of obtaining exactly this. It would have been so, so easy to simply say “oh, you can dual class like in the first game.” That would have taken zero effort and would have achieved an inferior effect. Because they’ve gone this route and created custom, exciting advanced classes that are inspired by other professions, the class system as a whole is going to be better, stronger, and more interesting in the long term.

Frankly I agree. Its ridiculous how some people are complaining. On the one hand, you’ve got people who are complaining their abilities are changing (don’t use them then) or people who are complaining their abilities arent changing too much. Like elementalists, you literally have pretty much everything this game can offer you, bar stealth, and you complain you don’t get a huge change? Think of something better yourself that isnt going to cement your already well engraved spot as most wanted class in pve. Those who whine about an offhand, you’re getting more new abilities than a main hand weapons class so again, not much to complain about there.

Besides, it has been stated time and time again this is setting up to more specialisations. Dont like this one? Wait for a new one or try a new class. Especially if you’re someone comparing one classes specialisation to anothers, your account isnt locked to one class. Make a new character, you have no ground to stand on with any argument like that.

How are the complaints, “bothersome,” (as you put it) to you if you do not read them?

If you are actively choosing to seek out and read them instead of playing the game or some other enjoyable activity the complaints can’t very well be all that bothersome…after all you apparently prefer reading them over any other possible activity which could have been used to occupy that time.

Or, if reading the complaints is bothersome, and you find reading them (and complaining about them) to be preferable to, lets say, playing the game, does that mean that you consider playing the game to be even worse than bothersome?

DevilLordLaser.8619:

snip

Problem is though that the community lashed out on the Tempest for getting Warhorn, everyone was kittened because they wanted other weapons (I wanted shortbow, many wanted sword). We then collected our thoughts.

We got the elite specialization pointed out several issues. Posts ignored, no dev comment.

We got the BWE made several topics about what could be improved, which traits were good, which were bad. Which skills worked, which didn’t. How the elite was garbage and ways to make it better. How Overloads needed to change (most even said Attunement camping is not an issue as long as it is worth it). How warhorn skills needed to change -in fact, if you look at the pool and comments there a lot of people are trying to work with warhorn.

We get our delayed BWE take away post by ANET and what do we hear? Garbage. They ignored everything that was said since the elite specialization was revealed.

Now take a look at other profession posts, how a lot of stuff was commented, why some feedback was addressed and why they believe something shouldn’t be changed.

How are we (elementalists) supposed to “work with it” when they are giving us the finger and ignoring our feedback?

People have accepted the warhorn, in most aspects, but they wanted to try to improve the class. ANET gave us a crappy answer basically telling us to kitten off.

And I can’t be kittened off because I am supposed to thank them for just listening to our long time request of giving us build diversity? Specially when they give us exactly more of the same? When they give us an elite specialization and make eles the only class not to have access to the new boons and conditions?

Azel.4786:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

snip

Problem is though that the community lashed out on the Tempest for getting Warhorn, everyone was kittened because they wanted other weapons (I wanted shortbow, many wanted sword). We then collected our thoughts.

We got the elite specialization pointed out several issues. Posts ignored, no dev comment.

We got the BWE made several topics about what could be improved, which traits were good, which were bad. Which skills worked, which didn’t. How the elite was garbage and ways to make it better. How Overloads needed to change (most even said Attunement camping is not an issue as long as it is worth it). How warhorn skills needed to change -in fact, if you look at the pool and comments there a lot of people are trying to work with warhorn.

We get our delayed BWE take away post by ANET and what do we hear? Garbage. They ignored everything that was said since the elite specialization was revealed.

Now take a look at other profession posts, how a lot of stuff was commented, why some feedback was addressed and why they believe something shouldn’t be changed.

How are we (elementalists) supposed to “work with it” when they are giving us the finger and ignoring our feedback?

People have accepted the warhorn, in most aspects, but they wanted to try to improve the class. ANET gave us a crappy answer basically telling us to kitten off.

And I can’t be kittened off because I am supposed to thank them for just listening to our long time request of giving us build diversity? Specially when they give us exactly more of the same? When they give us an elite specialization and make eles the only class not to have access to the new boons and conditions?

Wouldn’t working out on a new elite take more time then we’ve had sense the last beta weekend. If they are putting resources into creating a new elite for tempest you are not gonna see it anytime soon. You have to make your choice do you want number fixes or an entire rework of abilities. Because if you want the later you aren’t going to get that in an update given today. Also there is no guarantee that they have the ability to allocate people to work on that.

sebradle.7034:

Azel.4786:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

snip

Problem is though that the community lashed out on the Tempest for getting Warhorn, everyone was kittened because they wanted other weapons (I wanted shortbow, many wanted sword). We then collected our thoughts.

We got the elite specialization pointed out several issues. Posts ignored, no dev comment.

We got the BWE made several topics about what could be improved, which traits were good, which were bad. Which skills worked, which didn’t. How the elite was garbage and ways to make it better. How Overloads needed to change (most even said Attunement camping is not an issue as long as it is worth it). How warhorn skills needed to change -in fact, if you look at the pool and comments there a lot of people are trying to work with warhorn.

We get our delayed BWE take away post by ANET and what do we hear? Garbage. They ignored everything that was said since the elite specialization was revealed.

Now take a look at other profession posts, how a lot of stuff was commented, why some feedback was addressed and why they believe something shouldn’t be changed.

How are we (elementalists) supposed to “work with it” when they are giving us the finger and ignoring our feedback?

People have accepted the warhorn, in most aspects, but they wanted to try to improve the class. ANET gave us a crappy answer basically telling us to kitten off.

And I can’t be kittened off because I am supposed to thank them for just listening to our long time request of giving us build diversity? Specially when they give us exactly more of the same? When they give us an elite specialization and make eles the only class not to have access to the new boons and conditions?

Wouldn’t working out on a new elite take more time then we’ve had sense the last beta weekend. If they are putting resources into creating a new elite for tempest you are not gonna see it anytime soon. You have to make your choice do you want number fixes or an entire rework of abilities. Because if you want the later you aren’t going to get that in an update given today. Also there is no guarantee that they have the ability to allocate people to work on that.

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not. If you promise people stuff they expect it.

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not.

We found out about that in the Reaper BWE thread.
They didn’t have any info like that on the Tempest BWE thread at all!

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

Exactly!

Some people just don’t get it.

ANET can come talk with us and say:

“Hey guys, we get that you feel the Elite skill is kitten. We are trying to work with concept X for the whole elite spec. And for that goal we are toying with ideas X, Y, Z. What do you think of them and do you have any others that fit the theme? Maybe we can try to squeeze out one of them by next BWE or the one next!”

Instead we get kitten like a few damage modifiers and nothing that addresses the core issues. And again, as pointed out, they had the time to make a lot of changes to mechanics of other elite specializations and you tell me they can’t even change the mechanic of a single Elementalist skill?

Malchior.5732:

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not.

We found out about that in the Reaper BWE thread.
They didn’t have any info like that on the Tempest BWE thread at all!

Yeah your right misremembered. Point still stands anet isnt going to promise anything. If they promise anything they are just gonna create expectations.

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not.

We found out about that in the Reaper BWE thread.
They didn’t have any info like that on the Tempest BWE thread at all!

Yeah your right misremembered. Point still stands anet isnt going to promise anything. If they promise anything they are just gonna create expectations.

Like giving Eles a new role?
Yea, you’re right. We expected it and we’re completely disappointed.

Malchior.5732:

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not.

We found out about that in the Reaper BWE thread.
They didn’t have any info like that on the Tempest BWE thread at all!

Yeah your right misremembered. Point still stands anet isnt going to promise anything. If they promise anything they are just gonna create expectations.

Like giving Eles a new role?
Yea, you’re right. We expected it and we’re completely disappointed.

Guess what dude. You can throw as many tantrums as you want. But by the time HoT is released tempest is going to still occupy the same role it currently holds. They arnt going to create an entire new elite spec because people were expecting A and got B.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

morrolan.9608:

And lastly it is hardly a gift when we are paying an exorbitant amount for an xpac.

What is exorbitant?

$50 is pretty standard for an MMO expac that has a subscription involved.

Only 1 mmo has charged that. swtor is getting an xpac that will provide greater changes to the game than hot does and its free for subs, essentially its just $15.

As for GW2 being value for money sure if you haven’t bought gems but don’t try and claim its altruistic. Its an alternate business model nothing more, which would have brought in at least the equivalent to a sub model.

sebradle.7034:

Guess what dude. You can throw as much tantrums as you want. But by the time HoT is released tempest is going to still occupy the same role it currently holds. They arnt going to create an entire new elite spec because people were expecting A and got B.

To be fair is more of a matter of we had A and wanted to get B, but we just got A-.

Regardless, the forum was trying to work with the Tempest. People were trying to fix it, but then ANET comes and goes “Hahaha. No.”

So the elementalist forum is now a kittenstorm.

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not.

We found out about that in the Reaper BWE thread.
They didn’t have any info like that on the Tempest BWE thread at all!

Yeah your right misremembered. Point still stands anet isnt going to promise anything. If they promise anything they are just gonna create expectations.

Like giving Eles a new role?
Yea, you’re right. We expected it and we’re completely disappointed.

Guess what dude. You can throw as many tantrums as you want. But by the time HoT is released tempest is going to still occupy the same role it currently holds. They arnt going to create an entire new elite spec because people were expecting A and got B.

And that’s going to stop people from complaining about it? We’ve been stuck with Water + Arcane + 3x Cantrips since basically launch. Do you honestly think Eles aren’t going to be extremely upset and complain and complain until something is done? We already threw $50 at them for this expac hoping for something cool; the least they could do is give us a quality product.

I don’t think any of us are just going to sit around and wait for Anet to give us a joke Elite spec. It’s like, if I get served a pile of crap when I ordered a Pizza, I’m not just going to accept it. I’m gonna go over and complain for my money back. It’s the same with any other service. Maybe we didn’t know how the Pizza would turn out, but they gave us expectations, and when they asked for money up-front, we expected results.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Not to mention we aren’t even evaluating this expansion based on known content, because we simply do not actually know the extent of content we’ll actually be receiving. We’re simply speculating..

That’s… the problem, basically. It’s been over 6 months since HoT was announced and we still know virtually nothing about the actual meat of the expansion. There’s also the fact that most MMO expansions offer a lot more than HoT seems to be (we’re not even getting a new playable race).

That aside, I hate staff thief because the lack of ranged options is why I hate playing as a thief, and I was hoping the elite spec would address that (especially since the guardian’s was explicitly designed to address the same problem).

Malchior.5732:

I don’t think any of us are just going to sit around and wait for Anet to give us a joke Elite spec. It’s like, if I get served a pile of crap when I ordered a Pizza, I’m not just going to accept it. I’m gonna go over and complain for my money back. It’s the same with any other service. Maybe we didn’t know how the Pizza would turn out, but they gave us expectations, and when they asked for money up-front, we expected results.

That’s a rather poor analogy because it comes with the assumption that Anet not only screwed you, but intended to do so and that they have an active hatred for the Elementalist profession. Newsflash. They don’t. You’ve been arguably the most powerful class in every game mode for over half of the game’s lifespan.

What actually happened:

• Anet brought each profession a jar of jelly beans.
• The Elementalist forum asked for chocolate, vanilla, and mocha.
• Anet went to the store and thought “you know what, those licorice jellybeans look interesting.”
• A few people actually like licorice but, as is life, most responded by spitting it out.
• Anet wonders why you didn’t like the licorice they gave you and is now trying to make licorice taste better.

Why don’t you like licorice, Elementalist forum? Why?!

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Malchior.5732:

I don’t think any of us are just going to sit around and wait for Anet to give us a joke Elite spec. It’s like, if I get served a pile of crap when I ordered a Pizza, I’m not just going to accept it. I’m gonna go over and complain for my money back. It’s the same with any other service. Maybe we didn’t know how the Pizza would turn out, but they gave us expectations, and when they asked for money up-front, we expected results.

That’s a rather poor analogy because it comes with the assumption that Anet not only screwed you, but intended to do so and that they have an active hatred for the Elementalist profession. Newsflash. They don’t. You’ve been arguably the most powerful class in every game mode for over half of the game’s lifespan.

What actually happened:

• Anet brought each profession a jar of jelly beans.
• The Elementalist forum asked for chocolate, vanilla, and mocha.
• Anet went to the store and thought “you know what, those licorice jellybeans look interesting.”
• A few people actually like licorice but, as is life, most responded by spitting it out.
• Anet wonders why you didn’t like the licorice they gave you and is now trying to make licorice taste better.

Why don’t you like licorice, Elementalist forum? Why?!

Uhh, what?

Us being the most powerful currently changes what exactly? Just a while ago we were being out-classed by Shoutbow Warrs and to this day, we’ve still been stuck with the same build SINCE LAUNCH. I didn’t say Anet hates Eles, but they definitely don’t understand the class. Hell, we’re back in the meta mostly because of general changes, rather than actual direct buffs(Celestial amulet buffed, Strength runes, , like 2 nerfs reverted, extra GM trait, general Burn changes, etc).

Also, your analogy is so wrong. Lets say the Elementalist is a Strawberry jellybean.
So, it’s more like Anet teased us with Chocolate, then said we’re actually getting Vanilla later.
A lot of people didn’t like the idea at first, but accepted it. Turns out we got a Strawberry jellybean but from a different brand.

Tempest is trying to be Cele D/D, but fancier. It’s also failing at it. If they only tweak the numbers around, it’ll either be out-classed by the base Cele D/D Ele or surpass it.
No one wants that, but it’s what they’re giving us.

Malchior.5732:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Malchior.5732:

I don’t think any of us are just going to sit around and wait for Anet to give us a joke Elite spec. It’s like, if I get served a pile of crap when I ordered a Pizza, I’m not just going to accept it. I’m gonna go over and complain for my money back. It’s the same with any other service. Maybe we didn’t know how the Pizza would turn out, but they gave us expectations, and when they asked for money up-front, we expected results.

That’s a rather poor analogy because it comes with the assumption that Anet not only screwed you, but intended to do so and that they have an active hatred for the Elementalist profession. Newsflash. They don’t. You’ve been arguably the most powerful class in every game mode for over half of the game’s lifespan.

What actually happened:

• Anet brought each profession a jar of jelly beans.
• The Elementalist forum asked for chocolate, vanilla, and mocha.
• Anet went to the store and thought “you know what, those licorice jellybeans look interesting.”
• A few people actually like licorice but, as is life, most responded by spitting it out.
• Anet wonders why you didn’t like the licorice they gave you and is now trying to make licorice taste better.

Why don’t you like licorice, Elementalist forum? Why?!

Uhh, what?

Us being the most powerful currently changes what exactly? Just a while ago we were being out-classed by Shoutbow Warrs and to this day, we’ve still been stuck with the same build SINCE LAUNCH. I didn’t say Anet hates Eles, but they definitely don’t understand the class.

Also, your analogy is so wrong. Lets say the Elementalist is a Strawberry jellybean.
So, it’s more like Anet teased us with Chocolate, then said we’re actually getting Vanilla later.
A lot of people didn’t like the idea at first, but accepted it. Turns out we got a Strawberry jellybean but from a different brand.

Tempest is trying to be Cele D/D, but fancier. It’s also failing at it. If they only tweak the numbers around, it’ll either be out-classed by the base Cele D/D Ele or surpass it.
No one wants that, but it’s what they’re giving us.

They never teased chocolate. Datamining isn’t teasing. Placeholder data was mined. Said data was used as a possible route that this specialization could go.

At best, you could argue that you got strawberry vanilla. The role that you got is slightly different from what you have. The current Elementalist doesn’t have the capability to clump foes together much like a Greatsword Guardian and then punish them from mid-range while outputting decent support, but Cyclone allows them just that. The current Elementalist has to go Water to give auras to allies, but now they can give out auras via shouts that also have pretty decent secondary effects. Rebound (though it is complete crap) was an attempt to flesh out the support capabilities of the Elementalist with new options. The current Elementalist cannot copy (and thus multiply) the boons of their party nor extend the durations of these. The current Elementalist cannot AoE stunbreak, but the Tempest has multiple sources of this. The current Elementalist has almost zero incentive to intelligently camp an attunement or build around a single attunement, but, if they ever make Overloads not kitten, the Tempest will have a reason to do so.

They did give you something new. It’s just strawberry vanilla, rather than the vanilla that you THOUGHT they advertised or the chocolate, which they never advertised.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Malchior.5732:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Malchior.5732:

I don’t think any of us are just going to sit around and wait for Anet to give us a joke Elite spec. It’s like, if I get served a pile of crap when I ordered a Pizza, I’m not just going to accept it. I’m gonna go over and complain for my money back. It’s the same with any other service. Maybe we didn’t know how the Pizza would turn out, but they gave us expectations, and when they asked for money up-front, we expected results.

That’s a rather poor analogy because it comes with the assumption that Anet not only screwed you, but intended to do so and that they have an active hatred for the Elementalist profession. Newsflash. They don’t. You’ve been arguably the most powerful class in every game mode for over half of the game’s lifespan.

What actually happened:

• Anet brought each profession a jar of jelly beans.
• The Elementalist forum asked for chocolate, vanilla, and mocha.
• Anet went to the store and thought “you know what, those licorice jellybeans look interesting.”
• A few people actually like licorice but, as is life, most responded by spitting it out.
• Anet wonders why you didn’t like the licorice they gave you and is now trying to make licorice taste better.

Why don’t you like licorice, Elementalist forum? Why?!

Uhh, what?

Us being the most powerful currently changes what exactly? Just a while ago we were being out-classed by Shoutbow Warrs and to this day, we’ve still been stuck with the same build SINCE LAUNCH. I didn’t say Anet hates Eles, but they definitely don’t understand the class.

Also, your analogy is so wrong. Lets say the Elementalist is a Strawberry jellybean.
So, it’s more like Anet teased us with Chocolate, then said we’re actually getting Vanilla later.
A lot of people didn’t like the idea at first, but accepted it. Turns out we got a Strawberry jellybean but from a different brand.

Tempest is trying to be Cele D/D, but fancier. It’s also failing at it. If they only tweak the numbers around, it’ll either be out-classed by the base Cele D/D Ele or surpass it.
No one wants that, but it’s what they’re giving us.

They never teased chocolate. Datamining isn’t teasing. Placeholder data was mined. Said data was used as a possible route that this specialization could go.

At best, you could argue that you got strawberry vanilla. The role that you got is slightly different from what you have. The current Elementalist doesn’t have the capability to clump foes together much like a Greatsword Guardian and then punish them from mid-range while outputting decent support, but Cyclone allows them just that. The current Elementalist has to go Water to give auras to allies, but now they can give out auras via shouts that also have pretty decent secondary effects. Rebound (though it is complete crap) was an attempt to flesh out the support capabilities of the Elementalist with new options. The current Elementalist cannot copy (and thus multiply) the boons of their party nor extend the durations of these. The current Elementalist cannot AoE stunbreak, but the Tempest has multiple sources of this. The current Elementalist has almost zero incentive to intelligently camp an attunement or build around a single attunement, but, if they ever make Overloads not kitten, the Tempest will have a reason to do so.

They did give you something new. It’s just strawberry vanilla, rather than the vanilla that you THOUGHT they advertised or the chocolate, which they never advertised.

And that “strawberry vanilla” is pretty awful.
While it “does new things”(AoE Stun Break is basically a much worse version of AoE Stab), it’s nothing meaningful and you’re far better off not even playing the Tempest.
There’s no reason to take it. Even if they give us a reason, they will have out-classed Cele D/D to do so, causing a cascade of issues.

Also, lets go through these “new things”.
Cyclone does pull an enemy where you want, that’s true, however, what mid-range? Overloads are Melee, Warhorn does pathetic damage, and it pairs best with Dagger, which benefits best from being close.

Shouts giving AoE Auras completely undermines our Water GM trait, Powerful Auras.
Yay, we….still have to spec into Water, but have even LESS of a reason to use this trait. Thank you?

Rebound does literally nothing and the person who came up with the idea probably had like 5 minutes to make it.

Warhorn can copy and spread Boons, but the best source of Boons for the Elementalist is…Water + Arcana + 3x Cantrips
The Tempest line doesn’t give you any boons to spread and neither do the Shouts.
Admittedly this is the “best” part about the Tempest. I mean, it’s kinda in Mesmer territory, but okay. Also, the duration increase is pathetic and the Herald can do it too.

AoE Stun breaks are kinda crap. None of the WH skills are fast enough to actually make use of this. You’re going to be spamming your skills and randomly Stun Break your allies, potentially causing them to waste their own utilities.
Alternatively, you could just have played a Guardian and given everyone AoE Stab and done the exact same thing, but better.

Finally, Warhorn causes you to not only have less personal survivability(loss of 6s Projectile Destruction, Reflect, 3x Condi Clear, 4s Invuln), but also much less damage and mobility(Ring of Fire, Fire Grab, Ride the Lightning). Ironically, it also lacks any Auras of its own, so the only way for Tempest to take advantage of Elemental Bastion is to take all Shouts.

Oh, and before I forget, the Elementalist already had a decent Auramancer build with Signets. It got destroyed so the Tempest could undermine Powerful Auras with Shouts, which have the same effects as our Signets, but in PbAoE form.
Now we have Aura traits spread between FIVE lines. Good luck with that.

I completely understand the plight of the elementalists. As a Guardian I have the same useless class designer. Guardians also haven’t changed much since launch either and sure the Dragonhunter is a change but the spec doesn’t even work with itself and the virtues are broken and don’t work with any traits because they have cast times.

Edit: Forgot to add that “Guardians are in a good place” motto that Anet likes to spout out.

AoE stab is better than AoE stunbreak? That statement demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of the game. These two mechanics are entirely different in their purpose.

Stability is pre-emptive and protective. Stunbreaking is reactive. To make a comparison to more traditional support roles, Stability is Aegis while Stunbreaking is Healing. Both have their unique uses, and both are crucial in cc protection. In fact, most builds can’t effectively survive in PvP without having access to at least one stunbreak.

Similarly, Berserker’s Stance may defend a Warrior from incoming conditions, but it’s often a poor substitute for strong condition removal, especially in longer fights. But it’s predictive rather than reactive and thus serves a different subrole under the “anti-condition” umbrella.

Stability, as a preemptive measure is limited by the player’s ability to predict, whereas stunbreaks are limited by a player’s ability to react. A clean prediction or a particularly powerful stability application can protect a player and their team from cc, but a swift stunbreak can do the same – and stunbreaks cannot be countered by boon removal.

But the thing about the baseline Elementalist is that it has very little ability to support teammates with either. It has a very weak stability-sharing trait in the Earth line (the line that is the weakest line to begin with), and that’s pretty much it.

Tempest, though it needs work even here, does make the Elementalist one of only three AoE stun-breakers in the game. The Guardian has to take a Virtues Grandmaster and blow Virtue of Courage to do so. The Revenant excels at AoE stun-breaking and AoE stab. The Tempest is, if nothing else, a pretty decent AoE stunbreaker with fantastic aura share.

How much about the xpac do yall want to know? Give me a percentage, because what they have told us, pretty much covers it (I don’t know what we are missing) w/o going into details. If GW2 was like every other MMO out there (based around same content principles), then yea, all the things some people are upset about might make sense, but its not…since day 1. So asking for more things like WoW, or changes like ESO, or pieces from FF is silly, if GW is not based on the same principles as those games.

Trust me, I’d like to see more kitten, and the Elite specs are tainted by the word, elite, but, now is the time devs are taking into account feedback. Regardless of what the community(which is not solely represented by the disgruntle in forums) asked for prior to reveals, ANet has been working on the xpac (and these elite specs which were probably cemented in concept months ago).

Back to the post:
The problem is for every feedback thread, a million rage post (kitten near duplicates of from thread to thread) are attached to it, which poison feedback threads. I know all rage post aren’t rage based(just poorly constructed), but they attract ANet supporters which will ALWAYS attract more poison. Its the nature of video game forums. We’ve already seen them try to tweak stuff in between reveals. We will see when HoT drops. They have a vision where they want to take this game. All we can do is give feedback and wait for end product.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

AoE stab is better than AoE stunbreak? That statement demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of the game. These two mechanics are entirely different in their purpose.

Stability is pre-emptive and protective. Stunbreaking is reactive. To make a comparison to more traditional support roles, Stability is Aegis while Stunbreaking is Healing. Both have their unique uses, and both are crucial in cc protection. In fact, most builds can’t effectively survive in PvP without having access to at least one stunbreak.

Similarly, Berserker’s Stance may defend a Warrior from incoming conditions, but it’s often a poor substitute for strong condition removal, especially in longer fights. But it’s predictive rather than reactive and thus serves a different subrole under the “anti-condition” umbrella.

Stability, as a preemptive measure is limited by the player’s ability to predict, whereas stunbreaks are limited by a player’s ability to react. A clean prediction or a particularly powerful stability application can protect a player and their team from cc, but a swift stunbreak can do the same – and stunbreaks cannot be countered by boon removal.

But the thing about the baseline Elementalist is that it has very little ability to support teammates with either. It has a very weak stability-sharing trait in the Earth line (the line that is the weakest line to begin with), and that’s pretty much it.

Tempest, though it needs work even here, does make the Elementalist one of only three AoE stun-breakers in the game. The Guardian has to take a Virtues Grandmaster and blow Virtue of Courage to do so. The Revenant excels at AoE stun-breaking and AoE stab. The Tempest is, if nothing else, a pretty decent AoE stunbreaker with fantastic aura share.

It’s like we’re playing a different game. Proactive mechanics in this game are superior to reactive, that’s why you have crowds of people complaining about the low efficiency of healers.

To reiterate over, aura traits are spread over five different spec lines, let that sink in.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

snip

Uhhh, yea, that’s the issue. Stab > AoE Stun Break. First, AoE Stun Break is not very good for the same reasons I mentioned. Warhorn skills are not fast enough. At best, you’ll Stun Break an ally and he’ll accidentally waste his own utilities.
At worst, you’ll take so long to Stun Break that they’ll have to use their utilities anyway.
It’s the level of coordination that is just unrealistic(much like Rebound).

It just wont work. We needed AoE Stability as it would not only prevent the need of said Stun Breaks and allow Overloads to actually be accomplished, but would also alleviate the immense need for Guards in the front-line for AoE Stability(kinda what they advertised the Tempest should be used for…Front-Line Support).

Second, the Tempest’s only support comes from Boon Sharing. That’s literally the only thing it does that we couldn’t do and again, the Tempest line doesn’t actually give a lot of boons, forcing you to take Arcana(which forces you to swap a lot, which means Overloads will never be used) and Water.

Aura Sharing? WE HAVE A TRAIT FOR THAT ALREADY! They just neutered the only spammable Auras we had and put them on Utilities with HIGHER Cooldowns. Sure, the auras are more diverse, but the up-time on Auras themselves is FAR worse(I.E. less up-time on AoE Protection, Swiftness, and Fury and even Might). Not only that, now we have FIVE lines for Auras. Each line(except Arcane) only having a SINGLE Aura trait!

tl;dr Tempest fails at its purpose and has such little synergy with itself that it hurts.

I think the elite specs are spot on. The weapon choices aren’t far fetch and the skills strike the right tone. The only skill I think isn’t fitting is Dragon Hunter’s “spin to win” Procession of Blades. I would prefer the animation didn’t look like a blinder’s blade. The only name so far I think needs to be changed is the Dragon Hunter because there are so many other names that are better fitting for what this elite can do.

So it looks like
Warriors elite weapon will be Torch, I hope they get Phantoms like skills, “Marauders”. I really can see them calling different marauders to the battle field (ex. Healer, Long bowman, Great Swordsman, Mace & Shieldman, & “The Brute”, has Rampage, Bull Charge, Kick, and Stomp attacks, as the elite skills.

I guess we’ll see by Friday.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

There has been a continuous train of complaints surrounding nearly every specialization release that has, quite frankly, grown bothersome. And there is simply no excuse for it.

Look at the necromancer and mesmer forums and you will see that they are very happy with the changes that they received. It is only the guardians and the elementalists that have endless complaints about their specs, hardly “nearly every spec”.

Just compare the changes between each profession for the first BWE. It should be very clear to you why the guardians and the elementalists are the ones complaining if you make this comparison.

Tempests didn’t even get 1/3 of the amount of changes that reaper did and if you look at the polls and the feedback for BWE1, it is a general consensus that Tempest was a worse elite spec than reaper, despite the reaper’s shortcomings. I’m pretty happy about the reaper changes though, it may just be the elite spec for me in HoT, depending on further changes and how the unannounced specs pan out. Necromancers finally got something positive after all these years!

Ganathar.4956:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

There has been a continuous train of complaints surrounding nearly every specialization release that has, quite frankly, grown bothersome. And there is simply no excuse for it.

Look at the necromancer and mesmer forums and you will see that they are very happy with the changes that they received. It is only the guardians and the elementalists that have endless complaints about their specs, hardly “nearly every spec”.

Mesmers initially complained that they got shield.

Necromancers complained for some time that their new spec did nothing new for the class’s role (as it emphasizes things that the Necromancer already has – damage, chill, vuln, and self-might).

rotten.9753:

To reiterate over, aura traits are spread over five different spec lines, let that sink in.

If one were talking about a utility line, that would indeed be terrible. But auras are a core concept. It is healthy to have aura traits in every trait line. You don’t need to take them all, and it’s good for build variety to include options to take them everywhere. It makes building auramancer a more varied and complex concept.

That said, there just isn’t enough viability in some lines (like Earth), and the aura traits clearly aren’t weighted for equality to make the choice impactful.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Ganathar.4956:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

There has been a continuous train of complaints surrounding nearly every specialization release that has, quite frankly, grown bothersome. And there is simply no excuse for it.

Look at the necromancer and mesmer forums and you will see that they are very happy with the changes that they received. It is only the guardians and the elementalists that have endless complaints about their specs, hardly “nearly every spec”.

Mesmers initially complained that they got shield.

Necromancers complained for some time that their new spec did nothing new for the class’s role (as it emphasizes things that the Necromancer already has – damage, chill, vuln, and self-might).

rotten.9753:

To reiterate over, aura traits are spread over five different spec lines, let that sink in.

If one were talking about a utility line, that would indeed be terrible. But auras are a core concept. It is healthy to have aura traits in every trait line. You don’t need to take them all, and it’s good for build variety to include options to take them everywhere. It makes building auramancer a more varied and complex concept.

That said, there just isn’t enough viability in some lines (like Earth), and the aura traits clearly aren’t weighted for equality to make the choice impactful.

Mesmers complained based on the weapon choice only. When they saw the traitline, the class mechanic and the rest of the skills, they came to realize that it was actually good.

Necromancers did complain quite a lot about the state of the reaper, you are correct. This is the reason why reaper got the awesome changes that it did. If the necromancers hadn’t made their complaints known and hadn’t given the feedback, do you seriously believe that they would have gotten these changes? The changes themselves came directly from the feedback, just look at the necro forums.

The only problem here is that the guardian and elementalist feedback was mostly ignored. What positive feelings should eles and guards feel if they get this treatment?

Duke Blackrose.4981:

There has been a continuous train of complaints surrounding nearly every specialization release that has, quite frankly, grown bothersome. And there is simply no excuse for it.

Why did we get an off-hand?"

At what point was it established that off-hand weapons are in any way bad?

The fact that Anet has to apologize for giving a profession an offhand weapon or “make up for it” by promising extra special mechanics is not a good thing. It reeks of, as much as I hate to say it, entitlement.

They don’t owe you anything just because they gave you an off-hand. In fact, off-hands are great. Sure, they don’t carry the five skills of a two-handed weapon, but they provide for more potential builds, granting the class more potential combinations depending on how many mainhand weapons the class has. This applies double to the Thief, who gets extra interesting mileage out of any new offhands or mainhands in the form of dual skills.

Why did we get this? We need that!"

Well, too bad. For every player complaining about Guardian longbow, someone else really wanted it. It’s a good concept that will give the Guardian new aesthetics and new options. A lot of people really want melee staff on the Thief.

The principle here is that taste is a subjective matter. Do you know what I want on a future Necromancer specialization? Torch. Yes, torch. I LOVE torches and think they are horribly underutilized. Is that by any means a popular opinion? Probably not, but it has merit and it can be used to interesting effects.

At the end of the day, if you like an elite spec’s weapon, rejoice. If you don’t like it, give thanks for the option of wielding it and wait for the one you do want. Chances are, you Elementalists will get your sword eventually, if not the next pass around. Same for you Mesmers and your mainhand pistols and you Warriors with your dagger.

But it isn’t a new role! They promised a new role!"

The kitten they did! At no point did they promise a new role. They promised that it would be profession-changing.

And this is the point that you Elementalists are missing. No, you haven’t been given a new role, but you have been given a new means of playing your existing role. You’ve been given additional build variety. You have relatively viable new utilities that aren’t Cantrips. You have a means of giving out AoE auras without rolling Water. You have a new mechanic that actually incentivizes dedicating yourself to one attunement for a fair amount of time. And while this new mechanic (Overloads) isn’t particularly viable in standard PvP settings, it could really do work in tandem with a Jalis Revenant or a well-used Armor of Earth.

All of this is profession changing. You don’t need to pull out an entirely new role to change.

And while the Eles complain that they haven’t changed, many Guards complain that they have!

This is just baffling. The Dragonhunter and longbow are rejected by quite a few Guardians for being such an outlier to the traditional Guardian style – the opposite of why the Elementalists are ranting about Tempest.

The wonderful thing about the Dragonhunter is that it takes a profession that has a strong role and provides a viable alternative. It complements every single core specialization for the Guardian, and yet it doesn’t feel overwhelming or required like a certain Chronomancer does. It is, with the exception of the Herald, perhaps the best-designed elite specialization to be revealed thus far, and I think it is to be applauded for its simultaneous simplicity and elegance. It stays within the Guardian themes while really bringing a new way of playing them.

The message

If you want a good concept, let the developers have some fun. Sure, submit your own ideas. Give your own thoughts, and express your wishes, but when they roll out something as unique as a sound-based Elementalist, don’t just dismiss the whole thing outright because it isn’t what you wanted, when you wanted it, and with the exact right kind of giftwrap. They’ve given you something that they wanted to see added to their game, hoping that you would love it. They’ve worked hard and given you something different and put the effort into making it something that they are proud to show.

Your job is to play with the new toy, figure out how it fits with your profession, how it expands what your profession is capable of, where it fits in the overall game, and how it feels to play.

Some of these elite specializations change the role of the class. Some give you new ways of playing existing roles. Some bring popular weapon types. Some help to expand the popularity of under-appreciated weapon types like torches.

What all elite specializations have in common, however, is that they are a passionate gift from the developers to the community.

• offhand complaints are too the purpose of specs. They are supposed to feel different and exciting.
  2 new skills are usually not enough to make something different and exciting.
• why did we get this or that, well that is a bit off, however it has some merit for classes that are doing the same things they always did. Unless the playstyle feels very different and equally effective, people may be annoyed. However this complaint is generally pretty subjective, i think the execution is very important here.

I am incredibly pleased with the Chronomancer and Necromancer elite specializations. In my eyes they are as near to perfect as can be expected during the beta phase. I also think the Tempest is decent and a worthy progression of the Elementalist thematically.

While my scrutiny lies with the Dragonhunter as I think it is flawed conceptually. They’ve done a decent job of translating the concept to gameplay but I don’t like what it represents for the new Guardian direction. Its forever going to be a disappointment since the problems are in its’ DNA. But I’m psyched for the Herald, that captures what I’ve always wanted from the Guardian. Wish the Guardian got the Herald spec instead of the Dragonhunter as it just makes sense. But I can deal with abandoning the Guardian for the Revenant.

So overall I am actually quite pleased, it’s an 80% success rate for me.

BWE1
Chronomancer: I complained that the shield didn’t really fit the Mesmer before playing the spec because well lets be realistic, you are an Illusionist pretty much as a Mesmer and wearing a sheild just sounded really off. Though playing the spec it was hands down the best change of all 4 we got to try in BWE1

DH: Really needs a name change horribly… and needs the bow sped up some to make it fluid feeling and to make the new virtues act more towards the old virtues with instance cast instead cast times. Past that the traps were interesting the virtues felt correct and they had a full set of traits that worked.

Reaper: With my limited knowledge of Necromancer I found this fun and a small change of pace, it added a new feel to it that I liked and could see me on my Necro more with this spec in mind.

Tempest: There is valid reason we are complaining about this spec, have you played ele since launch? It hasn’t changed and this was suppose to give us a bit of change rather then a dumbed down approach at DD ele. Not only that, the warhorn is outshined by both the other options so horrible that you have to try and try and try and still can’t make it work viable more so due to the backwards aspect of how the tempest wants you to stay in a attunement and the warhorn is about spreading boons which requires you to change attunements. Oh and as much as that elite skill may have been nice in numbers, it was pretty much not even a skill, I tried to use it but never had much effect and more then half the time none at all. The shouts while cute when you look at it were really just taking an older DD build called the auramancer and replacing the signets/cantrips and when all was said and done we had a hodge podge of changes that all fought with each other and none could win so you have a elite spec that does not even work with itself let alone the class.

You kitten about people complaining, yet again I believe the only reason the Reaper felt that way was due to the Necromancer forum, I may be mistaken but I am pretty sure their feedback shaped the changes to make it one of the better specs released during the BWE. Now I will then point at how great of response the Ele forum got to their feedback, oh wait is was pretty much the middle finger, how about the gaurdian forum? How was theirs?

So I am glad you watch the Ele and Gaurd forums so much that you think everyone is still shouting negatively in all four of those that went through the BWE1. Hell look at Revnant, without the feedback the class would not at all be sitting as it is now. Just remember, the feedback is us trying to help guide them to do what is better for the class.

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not. If you promise people stuff they expect it.

they don’t even need to say “We’re turning _ into _”

they could – at the very least – say “We acknowledge that a fair number of you have raised concerns over ____, and we’ll look into it”

this shows that they’ve listened, even if they can’t give details. as is, it feels like they’re completely ignoring the bulk of the Tempest feedback – a great way to alienate the players.

sebradle.7034:

If they promise anything they are just gonna create expectations.

Yes, God forbid people actually be able to expect anything from ANet for once in GW2’s lifespan.

We can’t have that, no siree. Gotta keep everyone in the dark! Can’t be having no expectations set, cause then ANet would actually have to deliver results!

How barbaric and uncouth a concept that is!

Don’t expect skills to change in a major way or be replaced any time soon. It’s still possible they will if things are complete garbage or underused but I wouldn’t expect it to happen before all Elite specs are out. It’s clear that they don’t have the ability to do that atm which is a shame but the reality of it. Putting other Elite spec on hold because ele is not happy with theirs and want a total revamp would only kitten off a lot more people and give them less time for testing. Until all are out don’t expect major changes.

People complaining about people complaining. Tell me Simba; is this the circle of life?