Guild Wars 2

Amineo.8951:

Raids are not that awesome for me because of these reasons:

-People want you to grind ascended stuff which is really expensive now (over 1000g for light armors, I mean is this for real?)
-People want you to level up several classes you may not enjoy (I hate engi and mes, I play guard but it’s not what people want and how the raid is designed for us) and don’t have time for…
-People want you to have experience, but how do I even get that if I can’t join or form any group?
-Did I mention an amount of toxic players from dungeons are raiders?

I’m not touching that (unless I find a guild) until the balance patch, OP should do the same.

I doubt the balance patch will help with anything, tbh. You’d have better chance on hoping for the next raid wing.

Anyway,
- I’ve downed VG weekly with my Herald on exotic zerker armor (psst, don’t tell anyone that).
- Well yeah, I understand. Once I tried a condi engi for raid, but then I realized I don’t really enjoy using him so I never go with engi again. Recently I tried tempest since they’re in high demand for all boss, turns out I enjoyed playing her more than my main. So yeah, have you tried all 9 professions?
- You just need to at least be knowledge-able of the mechanics. One time I’ve seen one guy creating his raid squad, then turns out he doesn’t know that you need some condi members for VG. Sigh.
- What toxic players? ~.~ The most toxic players are those who just want to be carried IMO. Once I met a necromancer in a raid, after a couple of tries, it turns out we’re having trouble on the condi boss. The group observed that the necro used minionmancer build so we asked him (nicely) to change, guess what he do. He just left. Sigh.

Vulcan.7035:

Yes, I have a set of almost all could-be raid required armor sets + weapons. Yet no one will take me because I’m a “Guardian.” The only one I can get into is VG as a tank.

Also, I get “you might have been invited but you’ve never beaten it, let alone tried it.” But how is someone supposed to try it or beat it when no one will let you in?

That’s the catch 22 regarding instanced content
The problem is never the raid, its mostly raid entry

LegACy.1296:

Amineo.8951:

Raids are not that awesome for me because of these reasons:

-People want you to grind ascended stuff which is really expensive now (over 1000g for light armors, I mean is this for real?)
-People want you to level up several classes you may not enjoy (I hate engi and mes, I play guard but it’s not what people want and how the raid is designed for us) and don’t have time for…
-People want you to have experience, but how do I even get that if I can’t join or form any group?
-Did I mention an amount of toxic players from dungeons are raiders?

I’m not touching that (unless I find a guild) until the balance patch, OP should do the same.

I doubt the balance patch will help with anything, tbh. You’d have better chance on hoping for the next raid wing.

Anyway,
- I’ve downed VG weekly with my Herald on exotic zerker armor (psst, don’t tell anyone that).
- Well yeah, I understand. Once I tried a condi engi for raid, but then I realized I don’t really enjoy using him so I never go with engi again. Recently I tried tempest since they’re in high demand for all boss, turns out I enjoyed playing her more than my main. So yeah, have you tried all 9 professions?
- You just need to at least be knowledge-able of the mechanics. One time I’ve seen one guy creating his raid squad, then turns out he doesn’t know that you need some condi members for VG. Sigh.
- What toxic players? ~.~ The most toxic players are those who just want to be carried IMO. Once I met a necromancer in a raid, after a couple of tries, it turns out we’re having trouble on the condi boss. The group observed that the necro used minionmancer build so we asked him (nicely) to change, guess what he do. He just left. Sigh.

Toxic players for me are the one who don’t accept any mistakes and want perfection, that’s something that made me quit the game a while ago when I was running dungeons with pugs after my Guild died…

I have the eternal so i made yesterday raid for medium skilled ppl. After 2 hours we beat VG with not best class setup(for 5 players was is first kill) and we end at gorse after 1 hour around 15%hp(I repeat for almost all ppl was 1st experience and only me have kill) so, I think that not everyone is toxic. Try to join bigger guild with your language and meaby you will have luck

If you are pugging raids the best way to get in with a decent group is having one of two things:

1. Chronomancer, and hopefully be able to tank. These are highly sought after because of alacrity is so strong.
2. Have a condi class with appropriate gear (Warrior, Necro or Engineer in general). These are always needed and you need multiples. There are still so many people who only have zerk gear so you are setting yourself apart by having a condi option.

Otherwise you’ll probably be sitting in LFG for a long time just waiting because there are so many people doing exactly the same thing you are with the exact same offering.

This is the life of pugging, it’s the same in every single game. If you differentiate your offering you have a much better chance of getting in.

well guys we are at a point that it becomes ridicoulous: i’ve not been accepted in raids cuz i had full zerker warrior ascended but with hoelbrack runes instead of strenght.
Rlly are these pvers so dumby? Does they really think that 5% more damage (aka 0,5% dps in a team of 10 people) will do any difference? You know that a miss dodge can alone delete the advantage of strenght on hoelbrack? Come on this pvers are even more meta tunnel vision than pvp players!!
Actualy it requires more time to find a raid team than killing those 3 boss in a row.

eldrin.6471:

The problem with designing content that only 1% -5% can do is that the other 95%-99% payed for it.And on this planet that just dont work.People just dont/wont pay for other peoples entertainment.

Um, I got news for you … people have been paying for other people’s entertainment in this game from day 1, every time someone purchases gems. Now you’re saying it shouldn’t happen? That’s funny.

You paid for ACCESS to content, not successful completion of it, so your argument makes no sense. Everyone that bought HoT has the same access to raids. Learn what you are paying for with your money before spouting this nonsense.

Amineo.8951:

Toxic players for me are the one who don’t accept any mistakes and want perfection, that’s something that made me quit the game a while ago when I was running dungeons with pugs after my Guild died…

I can understand if someone does a mistake or two… but if you keep on failing and get hit by stupid stuff it simply doesn’t work.

I can’t understand how people are able to get killed by something like the sabetha wall over and over (unless it was a kick).

Shala.8352:

well guys we are at a point that it becomes ridicoulous: i’ve not been accepted in raids cuz i had full zerker warrior ascended but with hoelbrack runes instead of strenght.
Rlly are these pvers so dumby? Does they really think that 5% more damage (aka 0,5% dps in a team of 10 people) will do any difference? You know that a miss dodge can alone delete the advantage of strenght on hoelbrack? Come on this pvers are even more meta tunnel vision than pvp players!!
Actualy it requires more time to find a raid team than killing those 3 boss in a row.

Here’s the thing: There are usually somewhere between five and ten people advertising as PS warriors on the lfg, and even more who are sitting there watching it since the build is so popular. If you are not what the group is looking for, it is very, very easy for them to find someone else who IS exactly what they’re looking for. The LFG groups are under no obligation to take someone in gear that has waste in it. Which is what hoelbrak runes are for the raid. You gain essentially 0 benefit from the condition reduction, making it a waste.

Cameron.6450:

Shala.8352:

well guys we are at a point that it becomes ridicoulous: i’ve not been accepted in raids cuz i had full zerker warrior ascended but with hoelbrack runes instead of strenght.
Rlly are these pvers so dumby? Does they really think that 5% more damage (aka 0,5% dps in a team of 10 people) will do any difference? You know that a miss dodge can alone delete the advantage of strenght on hoelbrack? Come on this pvers are even more meta tunnel vision than pvp players!!
Actualy it requires more time to find a raid team than killing those 3 boss in a row.

Here’s the thing: There are usually somewhere between five and ten people advertising as PS warriors on the lfg, and even more who are sitting there watching it since the build is so popular. If you are not what the group is looking for, it is very, very easy for them to find someone else who IS exactly what they’re looking for. The LFG groups are under no obligation to take someone in gear that has waste in it. Which is what hoelbrak runes are for the raid. You gain essentially 0 benefit from the condition reduction, making it a waste.

But you know would be nice to have a DPS window at the end of the match, and discover that i made more damage than a strenght rune warrior one XD XD XD.
I consider a +5% dmg meaningless especialy against boss like VG and Gorseval, where movements and dodges can create much more difference in terms of DPS thant that ridicoulous +5%. You know dodge warrior can hit for a 9k, and if you dodge on boss with hoelbrack you get more than +5% dmg than if you dodge AWAY from the boss?
Oh and ye, to let you know, if i put +5 power infusion in both weapons and trinkets, or use a +100 power food instead of a +80 power, i already got your +5% dmg… but in fact, people cant see it when i link the gears, or i can simply outclass that +5% dmg by a better adrenaline managing to get berserker, to get that perma always angry buff.

And to be fair, i got kicked cuz i had hoelbrack even when there was no PS war around doing LFG. Problem is that there are so many bad players around, that pvers tend to find the reasons of their fails in the fact people are not using the meta gears, but its not correct, they are failing cuz they are BAD PLAYERS, who only count on a gear to do DPS instead than in a good skill rotation.

Another example? The melee DPS party is running behind VG, the noob cant notice it has only 15 stack of vulnerability and wont use a skill 4 mace, and keep spamming GS autoattack or even do a wirlwind attack LOL.

Shala.8352:

Cameron.6450:

Shala.8352:

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But you know would be nice to have a DPS window at the end of the match, and discover that i made more damage than a strenght rune warrior one XD XD XD.
I consider a +5% dmg meaningless especialy against boss like VG and Gorseval, where movements and dodges can create much more difference in terms of DPS thant that ridicoulous +5%. You know dodge warrior can hit for a 9k, and if you dodge on boss with hoelbrack you get more than +5% dmg than if you dodge AWAY from the boss?
Oh and ye, to let you know, if i put +5 power infusion in both weapons and trinkets, or use a +100 power food instead of a +80 power, i already got your +5% dmg… but in fact, people cant see it when i link the gears, or i can simply outclass that +5% dmg by a better adrenaline managing to get berserker, to get that perma always angry buff.

Well to be fair, can you argue that rune of hoelbrak is better than rune of strength/scholar? =p

Also kinda weird that you mention Gorseval because Gorseval is the biggest DPS check of the wing. It’s possible the the lost 0.5% damage actually results in a wipe

Anyway, the behavior is understandable, it’s easier to check things on paper (aka gear-check) instead of checking their actual actions. I mean, you can’t really check someone’s actual performance unless it’s checking if someone keep getting teleported or something.

Shala.8352:

But you know would be nice to have a DPS window at the end of the match, and discover that i made more damage than a strenght rune warrior one XD XD XD.
I consider a +5% dmg meaningless especialy against boss like VG and Gorseval, where movements and dodges can create much more difference in terms of DPS thant that ridicoulous +5%. You know dodge warrior can hit for a 9k, and if you dodge on boss with hoelbrack you get more than +5% dmg than if you dodge AWAY from the boss?
Oh and ye, to let you know, if i put +5 power infusion in both weapons and trinkets, or use a +100 power food instead of a +80 power, i already got your +5% dmg… but in fact, people cant see it when i link the gears, or i can simply outclass that +5% dmg by a better adrenaline managing to get berserker, to get that perma always angry buff.

And to be fair, i got kicked cuz i had hoelbrack even when there was no PS war around doing LFG. Problem is that there are so many bad players around, that pvers tend to find the reasons of their fails in the fact people are not using the meta gears, but its not correct, they are failing cuz they are BAD PLAYERS, who only count on a gear to do DPS instead than in a good skill rotation.

Another example? The melee DPS party is running behind VG, the noob cant notice it has only 15 stack of vulnerability and wont use a skill 4 mace, and keep spamming GS autoattack or even do a wirlwind attack LOL.

1. If everything else is identical, you WILL NOT do more damage to anything on a PS warrior with hoelbrak runes. This is simply a fact. You will also have slightly worse might uptime, as strength runes have an extra +15% duration on the third rune that hoelbrak runes do not.

2. Why do you mention dodging? Strength rune PS warriors have no better/worse access to dodging as Hoelbrak rune ps warriors.

3. Infusions and food can be applied regardless of rune. This is not important.

4. You are correct that bad rotations can have more of an effect on dps than the hoelbrak/strength rune gap. However, there is no reason why you, or anyone else, can’t do correct rotations with strength runes instead of hoelbrak. Besides, PS warrior rotations are not terribly difficult.

5. You are assuming in all of this that you are far better than any other warrior pug that a group could pick up. I highly doubt this is the case, but even if you were, a group picking a pug doesn’t know you, they have no idea what they’re getting. Groups will pick what seems to be the best option with what limited information they can get. If you can’t recognise this fact, you shouldn’t be pugging.

I’ve done gorseval with hoelbrack and killed him with more than a minute on timer remaining, so yes i’m assuming that the 0,5% doesnt influence enough to justify a kick, and yes i’m assuming i am better at dodging and skill rotate than average warrior, and yes i would rather kick that noob ele who is perma downed and making me losing DPS while ressing rather than a warrior who is doing is job, and yes i think skill > gears, the main reason Raid are failing is always the bad gameplay from players, not the 0.5% dps difference.
And yes i keep thinking you pvers are dumby: loosing 2 hours to make a team only because of a 0.5% dps difference is beeing dumb. But no problem, i’ll solve this: i’ll make ONE armor ascended berserker and i will put strenght rune on it, and wont use it (since most of the gear checks are on a single armor gear, even more dummy than kicking someone cuz he has hoelbrack).

Shala.8352:

I’ve done gorseval with hoelbrack and killed him with more than a minute on timer remaining, so yes i’m assuming that the 0,5% doesnt influence enough to justify a kick, and yes i’m assuming i am better at dodging and skill rotate than average warrior, and yes i would rather kick that noob ele who is perma downed and making me losing DPS while ressing rather than a warrior who is doing is job, and yes i think skill > gears, the main reason Raid are failing is always the bad gameplay from players, not the 0.5% dps difference.
And yes i keep thinking you pvers are dumby: loosing 2 hours to make a team only because of a 0.5% dps difference is beeing dumb. But no problem, i’ll solve this: i’ll make ONE armor ascended berserker and i will put strenght rune on it, and wont use it (since most of the gear checks are on a single armor gear, even more dummy than kicking someone cuz he has hoelbrack).

Oh i also want to add a thing: i’ve never been kicked after a RAID boss fight, meaning that my dps is appreciated. But beeing excluded since the begining without having a chance to prove my dps except from a stupidd gear check is unacceptable.
I’ve never kicked someone even if he was a total noob, but okay lets kick the warrior cuz he has hoelbrack instead of strenght -.-

This is why they didn’t have raids in the beginning. This is why raiding was, and still is, a terrible idea. This is why people like myself hated World of Warcraft, etc., and liked the concepts presented in Guild Wars 2 early on.

But, no. You people wanted this. You kittened and moaned that you had to have raid content, that you needed to organize 50-player instances, that you didn’t like small teams and quick, digestible, 1-2 hour content that you could stack together like building blocks to create distinct experiences. No, you shouted and whined and stamped your feet until you convinced ArenaNet to rethink their designs, yet again… to try and shut you up for five bloody seconds so they could actually focus on designing awesome Guild Wars experiences.

You did this to yourselves. I do not pity you.

PS. This, by the way, is what toxicity looks like. Mods, do what you must, if you must.

Shala.8352:

Oh i also want to add a thing: i’ve never been kicked after a RAID boss fight, meaning that my dps is appreciated. But beeing excluded since the begining without having a chance to prove my dps except from a stupidd gear check is unacceptable.
I’ve never kicked someone even if he was a total noob, but okay lets kick the warrior cuz he has hoelbrack instead of strenght -.-

I think you don’t understand dude. Nobody care that you are better than most PS warrior with your Hoelbrak runes. Nobody give a kitten in pugs. They don’t know you, you don’t have the normal gear, there is 20 other warrior with the ’’right’’ gear 2 inch to your left and right. Why would they choose you?

Ya you are right hoelbrak vs strenght won’t change much if anything. Unless you don’t use food and there is no herald in your party you will reach 25 stack of might anyway. Most people over buff on boons duration for a PS Warrior anyway. So it’s really only the 5% that make a difference for most group (in decent group the rune of strenght will allow your warrior to take dps food instead of boon duration food, so the difference is a bit higher there).

But it’s the same thing with a lot of stuff. Condi Ranger, Condi Guardian, Zerker Necro, Zerker Guardian, Zerker Thief, Exotic Armor. All of that is just fine for raids, but pugs don’t want them and you know what they are kind of right. In a guild group, we all know each other. I don’t mind bringing a friends or guildmate with not the absolute best build or profession. They will learn the encounter, they will get better and we’ll have fun. In pugs? Why would you give a kitten? If I have need a 10th in one of my guild raid, I’m gonna ask for the absolute best build for our comp and I’m gonna kick everybody that doesn’t fit the description. Even if we run with a Condi Guardian and a Zerker Thief.

Because why wouldn’t I? I don’t know these pugs. They might be bad or good I don’t know. At least i’m gonna make sure they have the best build possible.

Btw. Raid are awesome. In guild and with friends. Pugs to your own risk if you like that.

Thaddeus.4891:

Shala.8352:

Oh i also want to add a thing: i’ve never been kicked after a RAID boss fight, meaning that my dps is appreciated. But beeing excluded since the begining without having a chance to prove my dps except from a stupidd gear check is unacceptable.
I’ve never kicked someone even if he was a total noob, but okay lets kick the warrior cuz he has hoelbrack instead of strenght -.-

I think you don’t understand dude. Nobody care that you are better than most PS warrior with your Hoelbrak runes. Nobody give a kitten in pugs. They don’t know you, you don’t have the normal gear, there is 20 other warrior with the ’’right’’ gear 2 inch to your left and right. Why would they choose you?

Ya you are right hoelbrak vs strenght won’t change much if anything. Unless you don’t use food and there is no herald in your party you will reach 25 stack of might anyway. Most people over buff on boons duration for a PS Warrior anyway. So it’s really only the 5% that make a difference for most group (in decent group the rune of strenght will allow your warrior to take dps food instead of boon duration food, so the difference is a bit higher there).

But it’s the same thing with a lot of stuff. Condi Ranger, Condi Guardian, Zerker Necro, Zerker Guardian, Zerker Thief, Exotic Armor. All of that is just fine for raids, but pugs don’t want them and you know what they are kind of right. In a guild group, we all know each other. I don’t mind bringing a friends or guildmate with not the absolute best build or profession. They will learn the encounter, they will get better and we’ll have fun. In pugs? Why would you give a kitten? If I have need a 10th in one of my guild raid, I’m gonna ask for the absolute best build for our comp and I’m gonna kick everybody that doesn’t fit the description. Even if we run with a Condi Guardian and a Zerker Thief.

Because why wouldn’t I? I don’t know these pugs. They might be bad or good I don’t know. At least i’m gonna make sure they have the best build possible.

Btw. Raid are awesome. In guild and with friends. Pugs to your own risk if you like that.

If you dont know him, give him a try :P. I promise you that the 0,5% less “potential” DPS wont be a matter, if it does, the problem is not the PS Hoelbrack warrior, but the team. Cuz really counting on a 0.5% potential DPS means you are unsafe

Shala.8352:

well guys we are at a point that it becomes ridicoulous: i’ve not been accepted in raids cuz i had full zerker warrior ascended but with hoelbrack runes instead of strenght.
Rlly are these pvers so dumby? Does they really think that 5% more damage (aka 0,5% dps in a team of 10 people) will do any difference? You know that a miss dodge can alone delete the advantage of strenght on hoelbrack? Come on this pvers are even more meta tunnel vision than pvp players!!
Actualy it requires more time to find a raid team than killing those 3 boss in a row.

think is tho, a warrior is so easy to find, and any pug dont want warrs that arnt optimized. This shouldnt be hard to understand. People expect the best when pugging, and not having right runes is a big no no. I get it that hoelbrak are good for WvW, and sadly anet doesnt have a system making us have two or more runes to swap easily.

Shala.8352:

If you dont know him, give him a try :P. I promise you that the 0,5% less “potential” DPS wont be a matter, if it does, the problem is not the PS Hoelbrack warrior, but the team. Cuz really counting on a 0.5% potential DPS means you are unsafe

Jesus you have a hard time understanding.

I know it doesn’t matter the 0.5%. But why give him a try? What is my incentive. I don’t know the guy, he could be bad, he could be good. I have no freaking idea. What I do know is that there is 20 other PS warrior that does have Runes of Strength next to you which could be good or bad.

I’m asking myself why does he have Rune of Hoelbrak on this PS Warrior? Does he use his gear for WvW and PvE? Does he’s a WvW player, trying PvE? He’s he too broke to buy rune of strenght? In that case will he have enough gold for good food? Does he know what is the ideal PS Warrior build? He don’t, what else did he build ’’wrong’’? Does he have bad trait? Bad utilities?

Why would I bother with all those question in a pug. Again I don’t know you, the only difference between you and the 20 other PS Warrior is that you don’t have the best Runes for that build so I’ll take a chance with one of those PS Warrior instead of you.

If you were in my guild that would be different. You a guildmate and I would prefer to include you with rune of Hoelbrak, then a pug with rune of strenght. That said, that doesn’t mean that I will continue to play with you if you keep Rune of Hoelbrak. At that point, it’s more about respect.

What I mean by that is that as a group we decided to bring the best we can. No handout in raid. Everybody must be pulling his weight. This mean that we ask everybody to go toward the best build and food they can and to also have more than 1 character ready for raid. That way, it’s easier to form good composition each week (since we have like 20 people).

We won’t ask for that right away. We’ll let you come with your zerker guardian as much as you want. We don’t mind. But we gonna ask you to plan for a better toon, and better gear over time. We want our players to work toward more options, not just have their main and leave it at that. Why? Because our raid go smoothly every weeks for everybody for a reason. The core group have several well build toons and they practice with it so we can fill all the hole we need when necessary. So we ask the same commitment to new player in our group.

So if someone have a PS Warrior with rune of hoelbrak. No problem. But you better be planning on eventually changing those rune or you are out of here. That’s just respect. Everybody is paying to bring their best.

And OP, this is why raiding is a bad idea. If you don’t fall into the “meta” you can forget about it. Reminds me of FoW and UW in GW1 before before nightfall and eye of the north. Need to have the class and build or gtfo.

Vulcan.7035:

I’ve been trying to get in raids for the past few months

As far as i know,raids weren’t added that long,to say for the past few months.

Some people took raiding too serious,and start losing a grip of reality,slowly.People started ignoring friends,guildies,people they play with,in order to kill boss,which drops 56.32 silver worth item.(most of the time)

Id chose friends over any endgame geared person.Why?This game is not competitive.No reason to rush,because you have 10 whole months until next expansion.

Some people killed bosses and they acting tough and all knowing now?Get a real life achievement and be proud,because in game,no one will remember you.

Do not lose reality grip people.Its just a game.

Obtena.7952:

eldrin.6471:

The problem with designing content that only 1% -5% can do is that the other 95%-99% payed for it.And on this planet that just dont work.People just dont/wont pay for other peoples entertainment.

Um, I got news for you … people have been paying for other people’s entertainment in this game from day 1, every time someone purchases gems. Now you’re saying it shouldn’t happen? That’s funny.

You paid for ACCESS to content, not successful completion of it, so your argument makes no sense. Everyone that bought HoT has the same access to raids. Learn what you are paying for with your money before spouting this nonsense.

i probably spend way more on gems than most folk and the only person gets the benefit from it is me.That cant be compared to adding content to what was a casual mmo deliberately designed to exclude the vast majority of players/customers.

eldrin.6471:

i probably spend way more on gems than most folk and the only person gets the benefit from it is me.

That’s not true. The fact you think this shows you’re lack of understanding for how the game works and why certain decisions are made related to the GS. Everytime anyone buys gems, it benefits EVERY player of this game; it keeps the lights on, the rent paid and the servers running.

Ye well i got Aspergers and lack of understanding a lot of things goes with it or so im told.
£3000+ well spent then,and folk on here should be saying thanks not slagging me off.But thats people for you.Buying the raid runs to get the legendary Armour collection with gold funded buy gems should help you all out a lot then,well done me.Almost finished first part of collection for 2.5k gold,a lot less than i thought.

Shala.8352:

Thaddeus.4891:

Shala.8352:

Oh i also want to add a thing: i’ve never been kicked after a RAID boss fight, meaning that my dps is appreciated. But beeing excluded since the begining without having a chance to prove my dps except from a stupidd gear check is unacceptable.
I’ve never kicked someone even if he was a total noob, but okay lets kick the warrior cuz he has hoelbrack instead of strenght -.-

I think you don’t understand dude. Nobody care that you are better than most PS warrior with your Hoelbrak runes. Nobody give a kitten in pugs. They don’t know you, you don’t have the normal gear, there is 20 other warrior with the ’’right’’ gear 2 inch to your left and right. Why would they choose you?

Ya you are right hoelbrak vs strenght won’t change much if anything. Unless you don’t use food and there is no herald in your party you will reach 25 stack of might anyway. Most people over buff on boons duration for a PS Warrior anyway. So it’s really only the 5% that make a difference for most group (in decent group the rune of strenght will allow your warrior to take dps food instead of boon duration food, so the difference is a bit higher there).

But it’s the same thing with a lot of stuff. Condi Ranger, Condi Guardian, Zerker Necro, Zerker Guardian, Zerker Thief, Exotic Armor. All of that is just fine for raids, but pugs don’t want them and you know what they are kind of right. In a guild group, we all know each other. I don’t mind bringing a friends or guildmate with not the absolute best build or profession. They will learn the encounter, they will get better and we’ll have fun. In pugs? Why would you give a kitten? If I have need a 10th in one of my guild raid, I’m gonna ask for the absolute best build for our comp and I’m gonna kick everybody that doesn’t fit the description. Even if we run with a Condi Guardian and a Zerker Thief.

Because why wouldn’t I? I don’t know these pugs. They might be bad or good I don’t know. At least i’m gonna make sure they have the best build possible.

Btw. Raid are awesome. In guild and with friends. Pugs to your own risk if you like that.

If you dont know him, give him a try :P. I promise you that the 0,5% less “potential” DPS wont be a matter, if it does, the problem is not the PS Hoelbrack warrior, but the team. Cuz really counting on a 0.5% potential DPS means you are unsafe

Ok you’re looking for Raid, they show you Runes of Hoelbrak armour, you don’t know how good a player they are but you do think “hmm they aren’t the best choice, I wonder what other things might be wrong with this warrior – best to keep looking.”

Its not the 5% damage they care about its the SIGNAL that using suboptimum stuff sends, its says “this person hasn’t bothered to get the best stuff for raiding, maybe they aren’t that clued up on it, maybe they don’t care that much, maybe they don’t know they are using not the best stuff,” all these things would turn someone off from picking you.

Its not the 5%, its the signal’d attitude it represents.

From my experience of raiding in WoW and FFXIV, its all about personal adaptability as well as open-ended thinking and mentality from every member of the raid. Not all players will have these qualities, but I’d look for a guild who has these qualities and is willing to think things out with you and work with you on getting raid-ready.

You have to be open to working with the raid as well. Your strats, tactics, build, and mentality is going to have to change if you want to work well with the raid.

Toxic players are a no surprise here, they will be everywhere. My rule for raiding, whether you are leading, calling out, or learning, be a decent player and don’t put others down over anything. So many guild members leave raids because of Ego and too many cliques form and turn guild-mates against one another.

I have yet to do raiding in GW2, but I’ve done a lot of dungeons and recently ran a Guild Hall run, which was pretty fun and easy once we figured out all the mechanics. We did GH on the 1st try and I was surprised how easy it was to run that. I feel like Raiding would be fun to do with my guild and learning the mechanics together and taking down bosses would be pretty fun!

The idea of raids might have been good but the reality is not,forced to use team speak with a bunch of abusive teenagers isnt fun nor why i play guild wars 2.I would imagine raids are great if you happen to have 9 m8s who also play guild wars 2 or are maybe in a guild and have got to know them.But for the rest forced to pug its horrible.Forcing strangers to group and communicate just dont work for most people playing this game.Its not the difficulty of the content that is the main problem.

eldrin.6471:

The idea of raids might have been good but the reality is not,forced to use team speak with a bunch of abusive teenagers isnt fun nor why i play guild wars 2.I would imagine raids are great if you happen to have 9 m8s who also play guild wars 2 or are maybe in a guild and have got to know them.But for the rest forced to pug its horrible.Forcing strangers to group and communicate just dont work for most people playing this game.Its not the difficulty of the content that is the main problem.

You need a different group man. My guild is mostly late 20’s 30’s and beyond. We have one guy in his 60’s. All really laid back. I have never seen anyone get yelled at for screwing up in raids. Even when we wipe for hours working on encounters for new people that are having trouble.

I knew none of these people before playing the game so it isn’t like the are real life friends or anything.

Even when we need to grab a couple pugs we are always polite. Even if they aren’t performing up to what we feel they should. We give them MULTIPLE runs, lots of constructive criticism. If it still isn’t happening. We give them a “thanks for coming, we are going to swap someone else in”

We don’t raid constantly, and we do highly suggest optimized builds and gear but feel free to message me in game, if you are a cool dude. I will see about getting you an invite into guild. It just sounds like you need a better group of folks to run with.

Your not forced to pug with strangers , your meant to group with people you know and play with. raids are not designed for pugs at the moment, they are designed for communities of people who can communicate and play together as a team.

The pugs will also be filled with ‘min-max’ raiders from other games that can only think in terms of ‘min-maxing’ and trying to micro manage fights because they learn from videos and ‘swapping people in’ aka booting people because winning is more important than playing together. things will relax a bit in 6 months.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Your not forced to pug with strangers , your meant to group with people you know and play with. raids are not designed for pugs at the moment, they are designed for communities of people who can communicate and play together as a team.

The pugs will also be filled with ‘min-max’ raiders from other games that can only think in terms of ‘min-maxing’ and trying to micro manage fights because they learn from videos and ‘swapping people in’ aka booting people because winning is more important than playing together. things will relax a bit in 6 months.

AKA, Critical thinkers and the 1%. Which is what the Raids are built for.

My problem with raids isn’t that I cannot find a group, it’s that I cannot find a group that is capable. I get spots easily because I play Chrono, Herald and Reaper at max specs, but that all goes out the window when there are no instructions telling the squad what their objective is and how to accomplish it. The effect is that if you don’t have a full squad of people that have been through the whole thing multiple times that you are stuck FAILING over and over until you give up on the squad and eventually raids altogether.

This malarchy that you go into the raid and the only key to how to achieve the final goal is to read the clues under the name of each boss is just shoddy at best.

What raids need is at least an NPC shouting at the squad giving a heads up about the tactics necessary to defeat each boss so that those of us that know what to do already don’t have to divide half of our attention to directing the other half of the squad.

I mean it’s all fine and dandy to have to be good, it’s nice to need skill, but it’s beyond me to have to teach this to every single new group that I join just to not complete the raid.

I made a statement once that I wasn’t upset with raids because they were hard. I also stated that the raids gave me a reason to want to have filters in the LFG system so I could avoid players with less than 1k achievement points or other such notifiers of experience and/or skill.

I’d really appreciate a system in which I can find like players with like skills/rating to join up with because as of right now the entire LFG system is a mess and trying to find a raid squad is no less than a shot-in-the-dark if you don’t have a large guild that specifically meets for raids.

As an afterthought I’d like to say that the entire idea of raids is welcome to me, but it feels out of place in the current state of the game due to the lack of a proper system to find players that are like-minded and have the qualities necessary for completion.

Here is the issue with the current raids, take this however you want.

The raids are built for 10 players that function about 90% of Anet’s exceptions. 10% can be anything from Human reaction delay, to Network Latency, or to Class Cooldown limitations. But the 10% is for error correction and being able to still complete the raid.

The raid is NOT built for 8 players to carry 2, unlike in pretty much every other MMO to date. That is how 10man/25man WoW raids were setup. So that 75% of the raid had to perform at 90% while the other 25% could fail at their class and the raid would not suffer.

In GW2, there is very little room for Error. That is why the 1%, Critical thinkers, Min-Maxers are winning at RAIDs and your traditional PUG is not.

Also Raids are still ‘new’. I bet in 6months or so after the majority of the first raid has been completely released and conquered Anet will adjust the raid to accommodate for 75% success rather then the current 90%, which will fix the issues I am seeing with the raids and that many others are reporting.

Community issues aside.

sirsquishy.8531:

Also Raids are still ‘new’. I bet in 6months or so after the majority of the first raid has been completely released and conquered Anet will adjust the raid to accommodate for 75% success rather then the current 90%, which will fix the issues I am seeing with the raids and that many others are reporting.

I hope not.

I never done raid in GW2 after giving trying it out for a few days after they released this content. Amount of toxicity that exists in groups that I have been with pretty much sealed the deal for me. After working 9-10 hours days, I play games to relax – not to get stressed or yelled at or to yell at someone else.

ANET can keep releasing content like this, I will keep ignoring them. It ain’t my cup of tea. 10 years ago, maybe yes. Not now. Don’t have that type of luxury or taste anymore.

sirsquishy.8531:

The raid is NOT built for 8 players to carry 2, unlike in pretty much every other MMO to date. That is how 10man/25man WoW raids were setup. So that 75% of the raid had to perform at 90% while the other 25% could fail at their class and the raid would not suffer.

This is not true of WoW 10man raiding.. At least it wasn’t when I played and it was current content. They definitely did not balance them around 8 people.

Tonight we also carried a person through VG and Sabetha, the fights are definitely not as viciously tuned as you are making out.

sirsquishy.8531:

Here is the issue with the current raids, take this however you want.

The raids are built for 10 players that function about 90% of Anet’s exceptions. 10% can be anything from Human reaction delay, to Network Latency, or to Class Cooldown limitations. But the 10% is for error correction and being able to still complete the raid.

The raid is NOT built for 8 players to carry 2, unlike in pretty much every other MMO to date. That is how 10man/25man WoW raids were setup. So that 75% of the raid had to perform at 90% while the other 25% could fail at their class and the raid would not suffer.

In GW2, there is very little room for Error. That is why the 1%, Critical thinkers, Min-Maxers are winning at RAIDs and your traditional PUG is not.

Also Raids are still ‘new’. I bet in 6months or so after the majority of the first raid has been completely released and conquered Anet will adjust the raid to accommodate for 75% success rather then the current 90%, which will fix the issues I am seeing with the raids and that many others are reporting.

Community issues aside.

It’s just wrong honestly. You are talking about something you just don’t know.

VG have been killed with only 5 players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l3XiH3_bns

The whole raid have been killed with exotic gear only
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSgj8Vqnlgc

Gorseval have been killed with no updraft and more than 3min left on the timer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzJKRmci8pk

So clearly the FACTS prove you wrong.

The exotic run prove that

VG have about 33% room for error (Exotic + 1:31min left).
Gorseval have about 15% room for error (Exotic, but almost no time left on timer)
Sabetha have about 25% room for error (Extotic + 0:51 min left)

The 5man VG run, prove that in the end you can even have more than 50% room for error at this boss.

The raid itself have no problem. The thing is that most people have a hard time getting a constant team and in pugs. You roll the dice and for now, a big majority of the pugs just have no idea of how to play the raids. This ignorance push players to ask for the very best because in that situation yes you are right the room for error is minimal. As time pass, more and more pugs will getting better and better and the higher the chance you will have to get a full team of people that know what they are doing.

Tbh, a Lobby, a proper LFG and functionality between squad and LFG would help a lot to the quality of life of pug in raid. The rest will just need time and practice.

And this is why raids didn’t need to be a thing. Good thing I don’t care about legendary armor. Some of the skins look neat, but…meh.

eldrin.6471:

The idea of raids might have been good but the reality is not,forced to use team speak with a bunch of abusive teenagers isnt fun nor why i play guild wars 2.I would imagine raids are great if you happen to have 9 m8s who also play guild wars 2 or are maybe in a guild and have got to know them.But for the rest forced to pug its horrible.Forcing strangers to group and communicate just dont work for most people playing this game.Its not the difficulty of the content that is the main problem.

If you’re afraid to talk or even just listen to others in order to help the group, then that’s your problem. I don’t know a game with challenging content where TS is not needed.

Also I pugged the raid bosses countless times and only once I encountered someone rude and abusive to others. Once in like a hundred runs… Needless to say that after some time 4 people including me left because we were fed up with his attitude. In all other occasions people in TS are friendly, helpful, making jokes after wipes etc… Even in cases where completely clueless players join even if the raid specifies it needs very experienced players, we politely ask them to leave after we see they do not even know the mechanics.

As i said raids must be great for the folk lucky enough to have 9 m8s who also play guild wars 2.but if you dont have friends in game and are then forced to play with complete strangers and listen to the inevitable abuse for hours on the required team speak or similar third party software..Difficulty of content is not the main problem with raids.
Some of you talk about finding in game friends to play with is easy.well for a lot of people playing this game including me its not.3.5k hrs played and not made a single friend.this game wasn’t until now built that way.why should i have to use third party unmoderated software to do anything.

Nilkemia.8507:

And this is why raids didn’t need to be a thing. Good thing I don’t care about legendary armor. Some of the skins look neat, but…meh.

Thousands of people should not get the “challenging” content they so desired and asked for countless times because you don’t like it… Yeah elitists are making the game toxic!

PS: I put the word challenging in apostrophes because the current raid wing is not challenging. It’s an easy wing that average players can (pug) beat easily. A raid that was successfully pug beaten (eternal included) it’s first week, can not be considered challenging. Needless to say hardcore players have beaten a boss with 5 people, without using updrafts, with everyone on full exotic just to prove a point, etcetc…

eldrin.6471:

As i said raids must be great for the folk lucky enough to have 9 m8s who also play guild wars 2.but if you dont have friends in game and are then forced to play with complete strangers and listen to the inevitable abuse for hours on the required team speak or similar third party software..Difficulty of content is not the main problem with raids.
Some of you talk about finding in game friends to play with is easy.well for a lot of people playing this game including me its not.3.5k hrs played and not made a single friend.this game wasn’t until now built that way.why should i have to use third party unmoderated software to do anything.

That’s bullkitten. Yes if you are lucky enough to have 9 friends/guildmates already, that’s easier. But the only person that stop you now it’s yourself.

Each time you pug, talk with those that you find good and nice to play with. As them if they want to form a small guild for for raid. Over time you gonna accumulate people to pug less and less and have more stable result in raid.

Everybody love to have a raid to go well with people they know. But nobody want to make the effort behind this. I have a squad of 20 people and of all those only me and 2 others do all the work to organize and make it go well. Just have some drive and make thing work. Plenty of people like you want to raid, but don’t have a team. They just need 1 person to put some of them together.

Most raid groups require team speak and most players for all sorts of reasons are not comfortable using team speak.And i think if you asked any one in the general non gaming population if they would be comfortable talking to complete strangers on a program like team speak the vast majority would say no.Why the hell are anet adding content to this game that forces the use of third party software and locking legendary armor behind it.

eldrin.6471:

Most raid groups require team speak and most players for all sorts of reasons are not comfortable using team speak.

I don’t think this is true.

To do well in PvP people use TS.

To do well in WvW people use TS.

To first beat Tequatl people used TS (I was leading Gandara’s first kill of it on TS), same with TT Wurm.

People who want to do the more challenging content use TS, my guild which raids has all 10 on TS but only about 5 of us speak – you can listen and learn without being worried about speaking. The only thing holding you back is you, TS is a reliable program that has been used by millions of players across many games.

I should point out for balance other voice com programs are available.

Coulter.2315:

eldrin.6471:

Most raid groups require team speak and most players for all sorts of reasons are not comfortable using team speak.

I don’t think this is true.

To do well in PvP people use TS.

To do well in WvW people use TS.

To first beat Tequatl people used TS (I was leading Gandara’s first kill of it on TS), same with TT Wurm.

People who want to do the more challenging content use TS, my guild which raids has all 10 on TS but only about 5 of us speak – you can listen and learn without being worried about speaking. The only thing holding you back is you, TS is a reliable program that has been used by millions of players across many games.

I should point out for balance other voice com programs are available.

you and the people you play with dont have a problem so you dont see why others might have a problem.makes sense.

eldrin.6471:

Coulter.2315:

eldrin.6471:

Most raid groups require team speak and most players for all sorts of reasons are not comfortable using team speak.

I don’t think this is true.

To do well in PvP people use TS.

To do well in WvW people use TS.

To first beat Tequatl people used TS (I was leading Gandara’s first kill of it on TS), same with TT Wurm.

People who want to do the more challenging content use TS, my guild which raids has all 10 on TS but only about 5 of us speak – you can listen and learn without being worried about speaking. The only thing holding you back is you, TS is a reliable program that has been used by millions of players across many games.

I should point out for balance other voice com programs are available.

you and the people you play with dont have a problem so you dont see why others might have a problem.makes sense.

I’m not the person claiming “most people are not comfortable using TS,” I am showing that people who want to do challenging content are able to log into a server and listen at least.

I do not believe you represent “most people.” I know I am speaking from experience across all game types.

eldrin.6471:

Coulter.2315:

eldrin.6471:

Most raid groups require team speak and most players for all sorts of reasons are not comfortable using team speak.

I don’t think this is true.

To do well in PvP people use TS.

To do well in WvW people use TS.

To first beat Tequatl people used TS (I was leading Gandara’s first kill of it on TS), same with TT Wurm.

People who want to do the more challenging content use TS, my guild which raids has all 10 on TS but only about 5 of us speak – you can listen and learn without being worried about speaking. The only thing holding you back is you, TS is a reliable program that has been used by millions of players across many games.

I should point out for balance other voice com programs are available.

you and the people you play with dont have a problem so you dont see why others might have a problem.makes sense.

What is your exact problem with using TS? We often have to grab PUG people to fill the last slot or two for our guild group. We have never had someone not want to come on TS. Most of the time they never speak. A lot of the time we have a good time meeting someone new and joking around while we do the content.

I can remember ONE time we had a group member come in and come on TS. They were using the wrong skills and it was hurting the group. After asking multiple times for them to change something out we figured out that they were not listening on TS at all. That was 30 minutes of issues that could have been avoided. We kindly asked them to leave so we could get someone else in. No one got mad. No one yelled. No insults were thrown.

I think it went something like “Hey, we are going to grab someone else man, thanks for coming, good luck”

eldrin.6471:

Most raid groups require team speak and most players for all sorts of reasons are not comfortable using team speak.And i think if you asked any one in the general non gaming population if they would be comfortable talking to complete strangers on a program like team speak the vast majority would say no.Why the hell are anet adding content to this game that forces the use of third party software and locking legendary armor behind it.

You don’t have to use Teamspeak or some other voice program. It’s just much easier with it to learn the boss and to coordinate.

Also you don’t even have to talk since usually there is one person (or two) who leads and calls everything.

What is your exact problem with using TS? for me its Asperger syndrome but other people will have there own reasons,an example of the problem.in guild wars 2 if you are verbally abused you have the option to report that player.You leave the safty net that the game provides,who do you report abuse on team speak to wile playing guild wars 2?Of course none of you have ever witnessed this sort of abuse but to then claim it does not happen would be absurd.How meany reports a day of in game abuse do anet get? Well in my opinion the typed word does way less damage than the spoken word.There is no control over team speak and to design content that forces players into an environment anet has no control over is wrong

I have Aspergers, and raided in some seriously good guilds where leaders got paid, you do need TS for raiding, typing is far far far too slow, but you only need to listen as a raider.