Guild Wars 2

I’ve been considering the matter of HoT’s value this morning.

GW2 was, for me, a good deal. Based on hours played, I’ve paid about $.05 for every hour played. This is based on $60 for the box, and about $70 spent on gems back when. For HoT to provide a similar return, it would have to add about 1000 hours of play that I can not otherwise get with just the core game.

So, the question I’m going to ask when I know more about HoT is what will HoT add in terms of content & gameplay, and especially what kind of longevity will it have. When I consider those issues, no amount of map exploration will give me a comparable return. New maps hit diminishing returns for me as far as longevity goes after the first run-through. Maps would have to provide 1000 hours of play, and I doubt I’ve spent more than a fraction of that uncovering the entirety of core GW2 the first time. Multiply that tiny fraction by 2 or 3 characters, and I’d still have a tiny fraction. After that, exploration is just repetition with the only value being whether the game play is enjoyable.

What will provide longevity (for me) is the nature of what’s to be offered. Will the events be fun? Will the mechanics used to entice repetition (without which MMO’s cannot survive) be desirable and enjoyable, or will they be a dreary slog like the current long-term goals? Finally, and perhaps most importantly, what value will ANet add to HoT post launch? Will they add content at all, or will there just be a few feature/balance packs and festivals as as they prep the next XPac? Especially, will they add ongoing content that learns from their experience with LS S2 and S2, providing both more compelling story and better play? Unfortunately, the Gag Order keeps me in the dark about anything other than what ANet is already close to finishing, so I’m unlikely to know about post-launch additions anytime soon.

When I consider those questions, I’m left where I’ve been since prepurchase was offered — I just don’t know. However, I find I’m now closer to knowing what I am going to look at when more info hits. I’m not sure if this exposition holds any value for anyone else, so feel free to disregard if not.

There’s already a topic about HoT price.

This isn’t really about price though. It’s about how important zones are as part of the formula of what’s coming and what’s not coming, and what you base a decision on. At no time did I get the idea that IndigoSundown was talking about price. They were talking about how much is actually in the expansion and what matters.

I prepurchased the expansion largely because of masteries, gliding, guild halls and the continuation of the story. Obviously more zones is cool too, but even if there were only 3 zones, that wouldn’t have stopped me from purchasing it.

But the price was never an issue for me either way.

Thanks, Vayne. Yeah, it was not my intent to discuss what the price should be, as the other thread does. My thought was to outline the process I went through to determine if I might buy HoT. It certainly helped me to type it out to see what criteria I might use, and if a single other player finds insight into what matters for her/him, I’ll consider it time well spent.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Thanks, Vayne. Yeah, it was not my intent to discuss what the price should be, as the other thread does. My thought was to outline the process I went through to determine if I might buy HoT. It certainly helped me to type it out to see what criteria I might use, and if a single other player finds insight into what matters for her/him, I’ll consider it time well spent.

Obviously this is going to be subjective, but where i think your analysis misses, is not all moments have the same value. A really good moment can make a 60 dollar purchase worthwhile. Or many many small moments.

Point is truth is say my first time exploring orr, was worth many times more than all the hours i spent on a champ train. The time i spent working out a hax rapid attacking cat melee ranger rush down (back when that was unlnown and unnerfed) was more valuable than the 6th time i did honor if the waves.

So really id say for whether people should spend 50 bucks, comes down to whether the game will give them valuable moments. Thats why people dont feel bad paying for 1 player games.

Now, whether you keep playing is a different question. One can feel something was worth it and only play it a few hours.

phys.7689:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Thanks, Vayne. Yeah, it was not my intent to discuss what the price should be, as the other thread does. My thought was to outline the process I went through to determine if I might buy HoT. It certainly helped me to type it out to see what criteria I might use, and if a single other player finds insight into what matters for her/him, I’ll consider it time well spent.

Obviously this is going to be subjective, but where i think your analysis misses, is not all moments have the same value. A really good moment can make a 60 dollar purchase worthwhile. Or many many small moments.

Point is truth is say my first time exploring orr, was worth many times more than all the hours i spent on a champ train. The time i spent working out a hax rapid attacking cat melee ranger rush down (back when that was unlnown and unnerfed) was more valuable than the 6th time i did honor if the waves.

So really id say for whether people should spend 50 bucks, comes down to whether the game will give them valuable moments. Thats why people dont feel bad paying for 1 player games.

Now, whether you keep playing is a different question. One can feel something was worth it and only play it a few hours.

I agree with this, but this is muddied by the fact that I love the people in my guild and we’ll all be playing together. The core players in the guild have all preordered.

Now, some of those moments, the best ones, will come from being in the guild and playing this these specific people, and that would happen with or without HoT. What HoT gives us is new places to explore together and as guild.

No amount of going back to the open world or the old dungeons is likely to give us the same opportunity to make those moments.

phys.7689:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Thanks, Vayne. Yeah, it was not my intent to discuss what the price should be, as the other thread does. My thought was to outline the process I went through to determine if I might buy HoT. It certainly helped me to type it out to see what criteria I might use, and if a single other player finds insight into what matters for her/him, I’ll consider it time well spent.

Obviously this is going to be subjective, but where i think your analysis misses, is not all moments have the same value. A really good moment can make a 60 dollar purchase worthwhile. Or many many small moments.

Point is truth is say my first time exploring orr, was worth many times more than all the hours i spent on a champ train. The time i spent working out a hax rapid attacking cat melee ranger rush down (back when that was unlnown and unnerfed) was more valuable than the 6th time i did honor if the waves.

So really id say for whether people should spend 50 bucks, comes down to whether the game will give them valuable moments. Thats why people dont feel bad paying for 1 player games.

Now, whether you keep playing is a different question. One can feel something was worth it and only play it a few hours.

That would certainly be another way to evaluate worth for oneself. I might add some of that to what I’ve already got, thanks!

Edit: I’m not trying to outline a perfect process, just outline criteria.

I would argue another possible criteria should be how one feels ANet has handled the person as a customer. Which obviously will be different for each person, based on things like gem store purchases and such.

The quality of the expansion itself is going to matter the most, obviously. But one of the judging factors that someone is likely to look at in this instance is how ANet has handled other products in the past, and that will include gem store items, seeing as there are several that have gone though some…“changes”, for lack of a better term.

Gene Archer.8560:

I would argue another possible criteria should be how one feels ANet has handled the person as a customer. Which obviously will be different for each person, based on things like gem store purchases and such.

The quality of the expansion itself is going to matter the most, obviously. But one of the judging factors that someone is likely to look at in this instance is how ANet has handled other products in the past, and that will include gem store items, seeing as there are several that have gone though some…“changes”, for lack of a better term.

I agree with you. Anet has made changes to items like town clothes. They also explained why those changes were made and offered refunds to people due to those changes.

I find the gem store to be somewhere between a free to pay game and a subscription game’s gem store.

Probably the only issue I have with the gem store is the infinite continue coin, to which I believe Anet should offer refunds. However, over all the quality of the game, the amount of hours I’ve played it and the amount of money I felt obligated to spend (bank tabs and character slots pretty much), makes this the best gaming value I’ve had.

@ Gene
Good point. An additional criterion might also be whether an individual customer feels that the content and/or features added between launch and now fits that person’s desires. For instance, someone whose primary interest is dungeons might be less inclined to consider ANet offerings as beneficial to them than someone who prefers a wider range of content. Past performance is a reasonably reliable predictor of future performance.

Different players got different preferences.

I bought HoT because i want to advance my characters further like masteries and personal stories. Also by the experiences of the latest pve map mechanics directions like SW, it is similar to what i have been long waiting for. And it was great news that the new zone will have similar directions.

My play time is not as stable as many players here. From couple hours to couple mins all depends my work and family needs. i need comtents that do not require to party up so i am roll in and roll out as i see fit without kittening anyone.

What i see valuable in HoT may or maynot produce the same value on other players, if it is not what you want, just wait and see.

Other considerations are the mastery system. The gliding. The new Legendaries and the precursor crafting. The fractal Masteries if you do fractals. If you like competing, the new events with leadeboards. Being able to continue with the personal story line. Getting any new armors that will be released as rewards for doing new content. Being able to go along with others when they go into the new zones. Helping your guild establish the new guild hall. If any of these turn out to be important enough to you that you want to do them then they might be what will make the expansion worth buying.

Vayne.8563:

I agree with you. Anet has made changes to items like town clothes. They also explained why those changes were made and offered refunds to people due to those changes.

Yep, and it’s definitely good that they offered refunds. But they still changed things around in a direction that can be perceived as a negative one, depending on the person. (turning the town clothes into potions instead of setting the clothes up to work with the rest of the wardrobe)

But again, that’s gonna be a personal thing, so yeah. It’s…very wibbly wobbly. (I keep using that word, I honestly have no idea what word to use though)

Vayne.8563:

I find the gem store to be somewhere between a free to pay game and a subscription game’s gem store.

I’d place it more towards the F2P end, personally speaking. It’s hard to judge because so far as my own experiences are concerned with MMOs that have cash shops, ANet is the only one that has on several occasions edited an item in some way so as to render it different from its initial form.

I think only one or two other games has ever done that, and selectively at that.

Vayne.8563:

Probably the only issue I have with the gem store is the infinite continue coin, to which I believe Anet should offer refunds.

You’ll see no dissenting opinion here on that. I absolutely believe they should offer a refund as well.

Vayne.8563:

However, over all the quality of the game, the amount of hours I’ve played it and the amount of money I felt obligated to spend (bank tabs and character slots pretty much), makes this the best gaming value I’ve had.

And that’s where the personal portion ultimately weighs in and why this such a wibbly wobbly topic, I believe.

As an example, I was “meh” towards the expansion to begin with. Looking back over Living Story season 1, and 2, I ultimately was not impressed, whether that be story/content/whatever. So an expansion that is likely more the same, even with some things that look really cool (in this instance, I’m referring to guild halls, as I am a sucker for player housing), is going to register as a “probably pass” with kitten price tag, (this should real 50 dollar price tag, I do not know why it does not)especially when (again, for me personally), Fallout 4 is on the horizon, and only so much money can go towards them vidja games.

Then the SAB “riots” occurred. Again. And ANet continues to deny refunds on the ICC. They won’t even mark a potential (not definite, but potential) year (not day or month) for when one might get to use the coin, again.

So then when I look at the potential value for the expansion it becomes this:

I -might- enjoy the content HoT brings out, assuming it doesn’t get iterated into the ground. But before I even begin judging the quality of the content, I have to deal with a company that is both unwilling to communicate with me on an item I purchased from them, as well as deny me a refund on that item that continue to sit uselessly in my bank because they’re too busy doing other things.

Regardless of where ANet’s intent may be in truth, regardless of what they are or are not working on, the impression they give is that they don’t care about me or my money as a customer, which brings my mind to the personal conclusion of:

“Why spend money on a game I may only like being made by a company that isn’t treating me how I’d like to be treated?”

And with that in mind, my own judgment call becomes: Don’t even bother with the expansion, even if it offers 2000 hours of content and the best player housing you’ve ever seen.

I think it’s why so many different threads are popping up (not specifically because of the ICC, just general differing value judgments), and why this may be more heated overall compared to what one might see on other forums. GW2 has been through a myriad of changes in a very short amount of time. I think it may have done some damage to the solidarity of the community.