Guild Wars 2

Shevak, YES that is exactly what I am saying. looking for raid. click icon at top of screen. click the raid you want to join. 10 person raiding party assembles from the que. I am glad to hear that you don’t think it would be a bad addition. I am unsure how it played out in wow as I only played 8 hrs of the beginning of wow on a friends comp one time and didn’t enjoy it. haven’t played sense and it was so many years ago I barely remember it now. I am also encouraged by the comment one of the dev team members made saying “in HoT players will have to dust off that toughness gear and take some serious hits” playing a war tank from launch as my main having a place to belong in a raid system would be a welcome thing, I can see hesitancy in the idea of the raid system taking over all future content updates. unfortunately this may happen as anet said the raid system will play a heavy part in future updates as a “method of delivering new content in future updates”

@Warlock, would two LFG’s for dungeons be a good compromise? One random grouper that groups based on dungeon path chosen and language of server (EU side does have language specific servers). This is for the casuals who don’t want to play meta. The one we have now remains and is used for specific runs. The meta players and the teaching runs would be here. Or the groups needing something specific to get through part of a dungeon.

I’m sorry, but obvious troll is obvious. You say that Revenant is far too confining. Ok, point well taken, but its an attempt to balance a mechanic that could otherwise be insanely overpowered and in many ways already is. You state that the content is designed for 3 or more people. I can understand your frustration, but lets all be honest here. A guild of less than 3 people isn’t a guild, its barely even a couple. Your argument that you should be able to get a guild hall and do all content solo or duo is ridiculous. What would you say to the large guilds or even the 10 man guilds out there that are expected to do more work as a whole for an amount of progression equal to just one or two people? At the end of the day, Guild Wars 2 is a social MMO by design. Theres a reason that everyone can get experience and loot from a single mob regardless of who tags it first. The game is designed around being around and working with other players even in a casual and unspoken way. It’s patently absurd to think that all of a sudden the developers would start pandering to solo players that just want to play solo alone with no other people around and no interaction with the greater world. The entire idea of the new maps is meta events and chains where you interact with other players to advance the overall story and progression of the maps. And finally, while I understand the whole “childish throwbacks” argument, I can’t say I agree with it. Many of the people that play MMOs these days are not children, they’re people in their late teens and older that would recognize things like the mushrooms and find nostalgia in them. They don’t cause any damage to the gameplay mechanic. In fact, in many ways they enhance it.

Thaddeus.4891:

Warlock.7136:

an unkickable group leader would be one way to go on fighting the zerk meta. it is indeed an idea I had not thought about. thank you for this. I am still unsure if when I say “instanced” I am using that term correctly. in dc universe when you want to join a multiplayer raid you que your character up and a team is put together for you. the advantage I see in this is that all builds are allowed an equal opportunity to participate in the game. I think that raids would benefit from this system in gw2. the coding for this system is already in the game. it is how pvp teams are assembled. using this system for both raids/dungeons could see some advantages. I had not thought of the idea of an unkickable leader. that would at least prevent the group hijacking that you expressed frustration in. good idea.

See that’s the reason why this conversation will have a hard time staying constructive. ‘’fighting the zerk meta’‘. There is no meta to fight. This sound like you are in a blind crusade to eliminate the meta. Just like you suggestion to make LFG random and to not allow people to put requirement. There is plenty of player and they all want to play differently. Your way of playing isn’t more pure or good than any other way other player would want to play the game. There is place for everybody and that include the meta. I enjoy the hell out of a good meta run, but I also love to do other stuff.

Why do you have to use those words ‘’fighting the zerk meta’‘. I don’t like the limited amount of choice in build diverstiy in PvE. I want to open the choice. I want condition to be on par with direct damage (not just specific burn build). I want content hard enough that a healer could be a good option, but I also want to be able to do the job with blind, aegis, reflect, and a group of kitten veteran players. I want to everybody to be able to create their LFG with their own requirement and that those requirement will be respected by people joining. I want everybody to play the way they want, accepting that some will be more efficient, but that not everybody will be able to be optimal.

I want less restriction, not more, but bias toward another way of playing just to kill the current meta.

I can see how it may have come across as aggressive. this is not my intent. I want every class/build/gear to be allowed in every party everytime. this is a goal anet once said it had. I agree that build variety should be constantly increased. and yes that would include zerker. one way to allow some of the more defensive builds some opportunity would be to raise average mob damage to the point that a pure glass cannon gets 1 shotted by average mobs unless the player using it is REALLY good at dodging. anet seems to be going down the road of less build variety. I think this is to reduce the amount of balancing to be done and redone. revenant is a good example of this trend. the whole class is autobalanced because there literally is a very small limited number of builds that this class can generate because of it’s locked spirit skills instead of utility skills and the one trait line that is the elite specialization about it.

here is an example of what has frustrated me about my own main. he was built as my first character. he was built as a HHH tribute;is a large norn hammer warrior. in wvw he found his niche. he was a rez engine tank. that is to say when a group dies in a run or when players are dying around him. he runs into what they couldn’t take. he rezzes the player while absorbing any and all damage aimed at him while this is happening. he got a lot of good wvw attention. many tys for what players thought were impossible rezzing situations that he managed. it was a nice friendly build that generated more fun for everyone. then the last feature pack happened. damage was raised damage absorbtion was not. I managed my damage and loot mainly through ret damage via spiked armor trait. he did get loot doing this. he did spike players doing this. I felt that he was my friendliest to other players character.

I say “fighting the meta” because as anet said when any one rune/build becomes the only acceptable one that is unacceptable. I do not want the meta crushed to not occurring that is just as wrong as it being the only thing that is allowed. the cnd dmg boost helped a few builds jump up as an option. I just want it suppressed slightly so that lots of other builds are considered as good as zerk meta is considered. when you can’t get into content because your playstyle is defensive and all players want is max damage it feels like it’s kinda you vs the meta. by fighting I mean suppressed slightly so that other builds are considered equally good. I have a full set of ascended healer gear waiting for my ranger who I intend on being my main after HoT launches. I love that we have a healer now. I am nervous as to how druids will earn loot drops. but if they do then this is a massive step in the right direction of allowing players who are more healer/tank oriented a place in gw2.

Thaddeus.4891:

About Revenants. Like Tregarde said, Revenants are the only profession that have two bar of utilities and Anet need to balance them so that they won’t be overpowered. That said, Conncept is also right that this limite the choice you have on a Revenant.

In the end, Revenant is a flawed system. Anet had a nice idea, but it doesn’t work that well. That said, it won’t stop the Revenant to be a good profession. Players will just have to live with a limited amount of choice when they build their Revenant and a very bad adaptability during content. Compare to another profession that change change one specific utility skill for a specific fight.

I still enjoy the kitten out of my Shiro/Herald in PvE

Sad thing is, this mistake has already been made, we know what’s going to happen.

The game which shall not be named added something called a hero class during an expansion. Which basically was a class that started off nearly at max level, including having only that portion of skills which any other class would gain at the higher levels, losing a significant portion of the customization experience. The class had a fair stint of popularity, but eventually pittered off and now is seen nowhere but PvP and other competitive content. They intended that this class be how they introduced new classes as well, instead they’ve never added another such class.

Lack of customization is not something to be offhandedly dismissed as a ‘design choice’ ANet, a certain amount of customization is necessary to give longevity to a class. Even when more skills were added to the above mentioned class, the standard opinion among the playerbase had already been established that this was an uncreative ‘shortcut’ of a class for players looking for quick power and viability but a cheap semblance of play as compared to the other classes.

The revenant is not going to last with the amount of customization it has available. It’s not going to be invalidated, its just never going to reach the potential for popularity or fun of the remaining classes.

Warlock.7136:

Thaddeus.4891:

Warlock.7136:

an unkickable group leader would be one way to go on fighting the zerk meta. it is indeed an idea I had not thought about. thank you for this. I am still unsure if when I say “instanced” I am using that term correctly. in dc universe when you want to join a multiplayer raid you que your character up and a team is put together for you. the advantage I see in this is that all builds are allowed an equal opportunity to participate in the game. I think that raids would benefit from this system in gw2. the coding for this system is already in the game. it is how pvp teams are assembled. using this system for both raids/dungeons could see some advantages. I had not thought of the idea of an unkickable leader. that would at least prevent the group hijacking that you expressed frustration in. good idea.

See that’s the reason why this conversation will have a hard time staying constructive. ‘’fighting the zerk meta’‘. There is no meta to fight. This sound like you are in a blind crusade to eliminate the meta. Just like you suggestion to make LFG random and to not allow people to put requirement. There is plenty of player and they all want to play differently. Your way of playing isn’t more pure or good than any other way other player would want to play the game. There is place for everybody and that include the meta. I enjoy the hell out of a good meta run, but I also love to do other stuff.

Why do you have to use those words ‘’fighting the zerk meta’‘. I don’t like the limited amount of choice in build diverstiy in PvE. I want to open the choice. I want condition to be on par with direct damage (not just specific burn build). I want content hard enough that a healer could be a good option, but I also want to be able to do the job with blind, aegis, reflect, and a group of kitten veteran players. I want to everybody to be able to create their LFG with their own requirement and that those requirement will be respected by people joining. I want everybody to play the way they want, accepting that some will be more efficient, but that not everybody will be able to be optimal.

I want less restriction, not more, but bias toward another way of playing just to kill the current meta.

I can see how it may have come across as aggressive. this is not my intent. I want every class/build/gear to be allowed in every party everytime. this is a goal anet once said it had. I agree that build variety should be constantly increased. and yes that would include zerker. one way to allow some of the more defensive builds some opportunity would be to raise average mob damage to the point that a pure glass cannon gets 1 shotted by average mobs unless the player using it is REALLY good at dodging. anet seems to be going down the road of less build variety. I think this is to reduce the amount of balancing to be done and redone. revenant is a good example of this trend. the whole class is autobalanced because there literally is a very small limited number of builds that this class can generate because of it’s locked spirit skills instead of utility skills and the one trait line that is the elite specialization about it.

here is an example of what has frustrated me about my own main. he was built as my first character. he was built as a HHH tribute;is a large norn hammer warrior. in wvw he found his niche. he was a rez engine tank. that is to say when a group dies in a run or when players are dying around him. he runs into what they couldn’t take. he rezzes the player while absorbing any and all damage aimed at him while this is happening. he got a lot of good wvw attention. many tys for what players thought were impossible rezzing situations that he managed. it was a nice friendly build that generated more fun for everyone. then the last feature pack happened. damage was raised damage absorbtion was not. I managed my damage and loot mainly through ret damage via spiked armor trait. he did get loot doing this. he did spike players doing this. I felt that he was my friendliest to other players character.

I say “fighting the meta” because as anet said when any one rune/build becomes the only acceptable one that is unacceptable. I do not want the meta crushed to not occurring that is just as wrong as it being the only thing that is allowed. the cnd dmg boost helped a few builds jump up as an option. I just want it suppressed slightly so that lots of other builds are considered as good as zerk meta is considered. when you can’t get into content because your playstyle is defensive and all players want is max damage it feels like it’s kinda you vs the meta. by fighting I mean suppressed slightly so that other builds are considered equally good. I have a full set of ascended healer gear waiting for my ranger who I intend on being my main after HoT launches. I love that we have a healer now. I am nervous as to how druids will earn loot drops. but if they do then this is a massive step in the right direction of allowing players who are more healer/tank oriented a place in gw2.

There will only be one meta mate if something else is equal then there is something else out there better then both those stat choices.

Its not anet who demand zerker its the players, find like minded people and run what ever you like. ( will you be able to finish raids, we dont know, but from what it looks like the answer is no.
Its still heavy focus on damage so only pvt gear people wont be able to do it)

Conncept.7638:

Thaddeus.4891:

About Revenants. Like Tregarde said, Revenants are the only profession that have two bar of utilities and Anet need to balance them so that they won’t be overpowered. That said, Conncept is also right that this limite the choice you have on a Revenant.

In the end, Revenant is a flawed system. Anet had a nice idea, but it doesn’t work that well. That said, it won’t stop the Revenant to be a good profession. Players will just have to live with a limited amount of choice when they build their Revenant and a very bad adaptability during content. Compare to another profession that change change one specific utility skill for a specific fight.

I still enjoy the kitten out of my Shiro/Herald in PvE

Sad thing is, this mistake has already been made, we know what’s going to happen.

The game which shall not be named added something called a hero class during an expansion. Which basically was a class that started off nearly at max level, including having only that portion of skills which any other class would gain at the higher levels, losing a significant portion of the customization experience. The class had a fair stint of popularity, but eventually pittered off and now is seen nowhere but PvP and other competitive content. They intended that this class be how they introduced new classes as well, instead they’ve never added another such class.

Lack of customization is not something to be offhandedly dismissed as a ‘design choice’ ANet, a certain amount of customization is necessary to give longevity to a class. Even when more skills were added to the above mentioned class, the standard opinion among the playerbase had already been established that this was an uncreative ‘shortcut’ of a class for players looking for quick power and viability but a cheap semblance of play as compared to the other classes.

The revenant is not going to last with the amount of customization it has available. It’s not going to be invalidated, its just never going to reach the potential for popularity or fun of the remaining classes.

This makes sense, I had never really thought about it like this but ya, I have to agree, going forward there will need to be changes to Rev.

Warlock.7136:

Shevak, YES that is exactly what I am saying. looking for raid. click icon at top of screen. click the raid you want to join. 10 person raiding party assembles from the que. I am glad to hear that you don’t think it would be a bad addition. I am unsure how it played out in wow as I only played 8 hrs of the beginning of wow on a friends comp one time and didn’t enjoy it. haven’t played sense and it was so many years ago I barely remember it now. I am also encouraged by the comment one of the dev team members made saying “in HoT players will have to dust off that toughness gear and take some serious hits” playing a war tank from launch as my main having a place to belong in a raid system would be a welcome thing, I can see hesitancy in the idea of the raid system taking over all future content updates. unfortunately this may happen as anet said the raid system will play a heavy part in future updates as a “method of delivering new content in future updates”

LFR basically works like how you’d think: it pairs up random people to do a designated raid. The difference is that it’s “easier” to compensate for the lack of proper coordination—no voice programs, playing with strangers, all that—and it rewards “LFR Gear,” which is generally weaker than standard loot you’d get from the actual experience.

Which, you know, is fine: people get to see the content and do the fights, see the related stories, and they may get some nice skins or something outta it. The only stipulation I’d add then is that you can’t get the Legendary Armor precursors—that’d let A.net keep the whole “raids are for the hardcore who want those special prizes” thing.

I mean, I think A.net is generally opposed to the idea, but I could see them reneging on it once they’ve got more raids out. Which is fine. I’d support that.

Seera.5916:

@Warlock, would two LFG’s for dungeons be a good compromise? One random grouper that groups based on dungeon path chosen and language of server (EU side does have language specific servers). This is for the casuals who don’t want to play meta. The one we have now remains and is used for specific runs. The meta players and the teaching runs would be here. Or the groups needing something specific to get through part of a dungeon.

yes I would find that acceptable as that is the way the pvp system works and I mentioned using the pvp system for dungeons/raid content. my concern with that is that there would not be any players in the random que if the ability to group form and go in was allowed. alas unless the system used to regulate the groups supersedes a players ability to create that super-tuned exclusive group and enter, the random que would simply not be used. the idea is to provide a system where it is not allowed to pick your team mates builds. you want to do a raid/dungeon you choose the dungeon you want or raid you want and the system makes all the decisions about group form. perhaps as I suggested the dc universe model could apply. you choose the raid then you put a descriptor on your character “defensive” “offensive” “utility” and when the group has representatives of all of these the group is considered formed and you enter the content.(warrior:defensive, warrior offensive, ranger utility(druid) ) and might be an example group.

Warlock.7136:

one way to allow some of the more defensive builds some opportunity would be to raise average mob damage to the point that a pure glass cannon gets 1 shotted by average mobs unless the player using it is REALLY good at dodging.

Well tbh this is already the case. On my elementalist in fractal 50 i guess pretty much one shot all the time and I need to play safe, sometime not using a meta build, pushing my guildmate to have the right skills at the right fight so we don’t wipe or have too much problems. The thing is 98% of the content is so freaking easy and old that we don’t need that everywhere.

The problem is that if my threshold start at fractal 50, that’s not the case for everybody. Some people can solo much of Fractal 50 using zerker gear and only some modification to their trait. Other people (in my guild) have difficulty with some basic dungeon like CoE or Arah. Not everybody need a more defensive build for the same content. That’s why a huge array of difficulty is always nice to have.

Obviously, the difficult of the game was ok for maybe the first year of the game. After that, the difficulty should have been increased, but it wasn’t. Anet nerf stuff, but buff other while we get better at the game. Bottom line is we do a lot more damage now that we used to do while the content is still the same. Dungeon were balance with people doing 5-6k DPS in exotic, not 15-20k DPS in ascended. Fractal have a lot less of that problem, and hopefully raids won’t have any.

a clarifier on my thoughts about “there will always be a meta” I guess what I am looking for is a system that generates multiple metas. i.e. a defensive playstyle that is considered meta and used. a offensive playstyle meta that is considered meta and used. a utility meta that is considered meta and used. not every player is comfortable playing offensively, these players deserve to be a readily accepted part of the game. play your way was what anet promised and it is what I am after. instead of 1 build meta I want multiple metas across different playstyles so that no one is alienated.

Warlock

Are you taking into account enrage timers and the likes ? What happens when you enter a raid and the build you or another raid member are using make it impossible to complete the raid ? Your raid will be required to kill the bosses in X amount time or they enrage and wipe the raid. Do you still think that players should play whatever build they want if this is the case and it make the completion impossible ? Your build may be fine but another raid members may not be. What do you do when you realize you will never complete the raid without specific build types ? As I said before one example is at least 1 boss requires condition damage to kill it, will you suggest dumbing down the mechanics to suit the play what you want theory ? Do you believe this to be fair to other player not to mention he Dev’s who put a lot of time an effort into raids to bring us build diversity ?

Warlock.7136:

a clarifier on my thoughts about “there will always be a meta” I guess what I am looking for is a system that generates multiple metas. i.e. a defensive playstyle that is considered meta and used. a offensive playstyle meta that is considered meta and used. a utility meta that is considered meta and used. not every player is comfortable playing offensively, these players deserve to be a readily accepted part of the game. play your way was what anet promised and it is what I am after. instead of 1 build meta I want multiple metas across different playstyles so that no one is alienated.

And thats what you can do now you can go in with anything and complete dungones it will take longer time then if all were meta and good at it.
But you can go in with full team of nomad geared players and complete any dungeon or fractal. ( you just wont be able to do it in raids as stated before they have a time limit that punish you for not chipping away their health at a specific pace.)

You can do Teq now but thats becouse most of the 150-200 players aint in nomads ( would be cool to see if a full nomads map could finish teq tho)

Meta is said of the best of the best they play with as little defence and support as they can within the team to complete said objective. ( they save time since stuff dies faster)

How would a defence meta look like a mob that have low low hp high defence and high toughness but immune to condi damage immune to crit and immune to 99%?
Hint zerkers would still be able to down it the same time as a pvt they have the same power.

Can you please give examples on how a defencive meta engagement and a utility meta engagement looks like so we can study and say if or if not it would work.

Edit
Remember this is a none hardcore trinity game unlike wow all engangement should be able to be done without tank and healer. ( except now raids it looks like since all the teams who downed it had 1 or 2 support/utility people)

Random.4691:

Warlock

Are you taking into account enrage timers and the likes ? What happens when you enter a raid and the build you or another raid member are using make it impossible to complete the raid ? Your raid will be required to kill the bosses in X amount time or they enrage and wipe the raid. Do you still think that players should play whatever build they want if this is the case and it make the completion impossible ? Your build may be fine but another raid members may not be. What do you do when you realize you will never complete the raid without specific build types ? As I said before one example is at least 1 boss requires condition damage to kill it, will you suggest dumbing down the mechanics to suit the play what you want theory ? Do you believe this to be fair to other player not to mention he Dev’s who put a lot of time an effort into raids to bring us build diversity ?

my response will sound like a cop out but that’s how I see this. if the raid isn’t capable of being completed without having a specific individual build then that sounds like a balancing issue. the raid should be hard to complete. but it shouldn’t require an exact player team setup and if it is designed to be that way then the LFR system that I mentioned should put your team together with that exact build structure.

imo a good team works kinda like this. you have damage players. when these weak high damage characters die. the defensive player or players rez the damage character thus covering the glass cannon from being one shotted. the utility character for the group might be a buff engine or a portal Mesmer or several other concepts of utility and support. I am not talking about teams of “nomad only” as that would be as aweful as pure damage teams. I am talking about balnced groups that represent different playstyle at the same time doing balanced content.

repeatedly wiping because no one can take any damage is just as prone to failure as not having enough damage to kill the boss in time.

Not a cop out, I was honestly curious on how you would view this mechanic. Their intention was to bring us build diversity so everyone wasn’t zerk meta. There will however still be needed builds, it may not be as specific as limiting it to a certain class or certain traits but you will need to have certain build types. I think a major problem with the “bring anything you want” theory is this is exactly where meta’s such as Zerker meta are born from. If you give players the option to bring what they want they will find the shortest distance from A to B which will result in that meta you and many others (myself included) do not like/approve of. So by asking for the ability to bring what you like, you are indirectly empowering the metas you are hoping to prevent.

The problem is that the way you play now there is still content in the base game you’re not experiencing. HoT isn’t really boosting that, it’s just that you’re looking at an overview of everything in it and noticing “oh man, that doesn’t really suit me at all”. That’s fine though – there’s so much that you can still do as a solo player. You can walk up to a WB and nobody cares what you run. You can do adventures, you can build new jumping puzzles in you guild hall, and you can gain access to even more build diversity with new traits and skills, even if Revenant isn’t for you. My argument is nothing along the lines of “why do you play MMOs” it more about how this is just what MMOs are. MMOs are played by people with a wide variety of interests who have a variety of degrees to which they want to interact with other players, and almost NONE of them will ever complete all of the content (if you would agree that completion in GW2 is to just having everything, achievements included). Normally you’re okay with that, but when you feel like you’re being almost obligated to buy it and you’re looking at all the content in the xpac as a whole you feel like you’re being betrayed. I think once you get into it you’ll see that’s not the case.

Warlock.7136:

imo a good team works kinda like this. you have damage players. when these weak high damage characters die. the defensive player or players rez the damage character thus covering the glass cannon from being one shotted. the utility character for the group might be a buff engine or a portal Mesmer or several other concepts of utility and support. I am not talking about teams of “nomad only” as that would be as aweful as pure damage teams. I am talking about balnced groups that represent different playstyle at the same time doing balanced content.

repeatedly wiping because no one can take any damage is just as prone to failure as not having enough damage to kill the boss in time.

And this sound specificaly like a trinity game you need a tank to absorb damage and be able to revive the poor berserker/sinister/assassins that happen to get aggro of boss.
Buff engi/support mesmer sound more like a healer in said trinity games.

This game will never be that mate, the content you have now can be done by pure dps if your good enough and can avoid damage berserker/assassin/sinister. pure defence everyone in clerics/nomads/settlers.
Or a mix of everything.
Only thing you lose is time, it sounds to me you have to find like minded people form a friends list of those or maybe find a guild, then do 95% of the content out there in what ever.

Untill raids get so farm mode that anyone and their cat can do it or nerfed into the ground.

Edit
Wanting a automated lfg/lfr is fine and dandy but requireing people to use it so you can get groups is not.
There are alot of mmos out there that cater to what you want gw2 is one of the few if not the only that dont.

Wow, rift, dcuo, swtor and elderscrolls online is just afew of them you can set your sights on mate.

I see how your looking at this as a trinity vs non trinity concept. what I am saying is that any class should be able to fill all roles. defensive/offensive/healer,utility. and that all game content should allow for a group that fills these roles to do the content as efficiently as a group that only has representatives from one role, offense. the idea is to accept every player with every build(or role) everytime. if it can’t be done like that then imo anet either needs to admit that their self stated goal of “every player/every class/every build accepted everytime” is no longer their goal. or rebalance content so that this occurs. either by force(lfr system etc) or by the nature of the content. i.e. raising damage from mobs gives defense a purpose. adding hp to mobs gives dmg a purpose. raising mob toughness stats gives cnd damage a purpose. etc. timers are an aweful thing imo but the timers could stay in place and the time allowed increased to decrease the intense perceived need for everyone to glass cannon themselves.

a note about the ones I can set my sights on. all those games suck. if gw2 wasn’t the best game on the market I would be playing what was. one can enjoy the massive effort by anet to create an equal opportunity world, while still seeing ways that it could be made better.

Can you show me a link to were they stated this.
“every player/every class/every build accepted everytime”
I think your taking a statment way out of context.

Warlock.7136:

a note about the ones I can set my sights on. all those games suck. if gw2 wasn’t the best game on the market I would be playing what was. one can enjoy the massive effort by anet to create an equal opportunity world, while still seeing ways that it could be made better.

And yet you seem to want gw2 to mold it self to copy the mechanics of its fights to the same as these games you dont like why?
If you go in with a full defence team the raid timer suddenly go up to 35 mins instead of 15 since you cant do as much damage as a 90% offence and 10% support team.

Edit
Thats a impossible task to program since they have to do it for all the ranges 80% offense 1 defence 1 support, wait no they are 2 tank 2 support and 60% offense.
The raid enrage timer would go up and down like a jojo.

This is the same categori as people asking to be able to do guild missions with 1 or 2 players the content aint made for it.

Linken.6345:

Can you show me a link to were they stated this.
“every player/every class/every build accepted everytime”
I think your taking a statment way out of context.

I can not. it was in the previous feature pack article under “improved social aspects”. when the new recent feature pack came up they took down theprevious feature pack article and replaced it with the current feature pack article. if someone copied it to somewhere online then you could read it for yourself. I have tried to locate a copy but to no avail for this exact reason. if you do choose to look and you can find an archived copy somewhere I would love to know where.

the feature pack that introduced the megaserver system. you can see where it was taken down here
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/

when you click on the april feature pack article it brings up the September one.

correction: I previously stated it was under “improved social aspects”. this is incorrect it was under “facilitating friendlier play”

Linken.6345

This is the same categori as people asking to be able to do guild missions with 1 or 2 players the content aint made for it.

Not all guilds missions just easy tier so please get your facts straight! As paying customer its reasonable request.

The guild mission content scales you know that right? so its already made for various size of players!

Warlock.7136:

Linken.6345:

Can you show me a link to were they stated this.
“every player/every class/every build accepted everytime”
I think your taking a statment way out of context.

I can not. it was in the previous feature pack article under “improved social aspects”. when the new recent feature pack came up they took down theprevious feature pack article and replaced it with the current feature pack article. if someone copied it to somewhere online then you could read it for yourself. I have tried to locate a copy but to no avail for this exact reason. if you do choose to look and you can find an archived copy somewhere I would love to know where.

the feature pack that introduced the megaserver system. you can see where it was taken down here
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/

when you click on the april feature pack article it brings up the September one.

correction: I previously stated it was under “improved social aspects”. this is incorrect it was under “facilitating friendlier play”

I see no articles titled ‘Facilitating Friendlier Play’ in the April Feature Pack announcements/blogs:

https://web.archive.org/web/20140716000614/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/announcing-the-april-2014-feature-pack/

I hope you don’t mind OP, i’d like to comment specifically on your post in either agreement or disagreement and i havent read the other pages, more or less just throwing my two cents in regarding the original post.

Warlock.7136:

1. I didn’t really like Revenant. why? a lack of customizable utility skills allows for minimal variance between revenants. build variety should be treasured. if a class is added that class should follow the general guide lines of the other classes including their own selectable individual utility skills. the replacement of utility skills with locked spirit skills hurts the classes playability.

I do understand the sentiment, but i also understand arenanets incentive for doing so. From the developer side of things, having two switchable utlility bars as it is must be a nightmare to balance. Having on top of that swappable utilities would lead to the same problems they ended up having by the end of GW1 development, too much bloat to balance. They have seemed to have somewhat recognised that, by having Glint’s legend bar swap between an upkeep skill and a usage skill, however this is not the case for all the other legends and as such it’s only helpful for those who like the glint skills. This is all ignoring the lack of racial skills as well, as they’ve said that they’d have to rework the way racials work on revenants, which is too much development time working on something that ultimately doesn’t mean much in the way of revenant gameplay, as all racial skills were designed to not be used as replacements for the class utilities (regardless of how powerful and just plain fun many of those skills may be currently).

Tl;dr, while i do agree that swapping utilities would give the class more room to breathe, the developers do have a reason why such a thing hasn’t happened (with the possible exception of glint’s skills).

2. all of the content I have seen so far is intended for groups of 3 players and more. why I see this as bad. there are several players out there that want solo content/duo content.
I believe there to be many guilds out there that are husband and wife(like mine) or a couple of friends that play together only. I have been playing gw sense initial na release of gw1. I have enjoyed years of gameplay both in gw1 and gw2 with my wife. I have very little interest in dealing with elitists who want you to play their way only/feel they should have some sort of supervisory powers over you and your playtime/play style.
I have said before “the less I deal with other players the more I enjoy my playtime.” this has been proven to me repeatedly and for over 20 years of gaming. every time I hear a player say “oh but it isn’t like that” and I try and deal with those players it all eventually turns into the same aggravating overly dramatic negative playtime. this has been tested on 50+ games hundreds of times. (raids take a commander tag which one must purchase for hundreds of gold./guild missions and guild halls will only be able to be built/done with guilds working at 3 players+ at a time.) is it so wrong to want to play the game content silently and in my own way that I enjoy? raids should have been part of the lfg tool or their own icon/interface where players can select a raid and get matched to a party to do the raid.

I 100% agree with this. the unfortunate aspect of MMO’s however is to encourage social play to the possible detriment of those who desire to play alone. I do believe, however, that Arenanet are capable of providing a balance between forcing group play on everyone and isolating players from one another.

3. the super Mario brothers syndrome. imo SaB was the worst content ever made for gw2. why? because of the low quality throwback graphics/SMB style play. I want new content shown to me in new ways. from my new expansion to my cutting edge game.
I was seriously discouraged to find out that the trampoline mushrooms(and they are even mushrooms) from the super Mario brothers series(that hasn’t entertained me sense I was 8 ) was apparently going to be a major part of the HoT maps(as they made up a large portion of the beta map/mastery system)

I personally think that the mushrooms are a solid step in the right direction, as too are the gliders. .They provide a convenient method of travel without removing the fun of exploration (and in fact have places reachable only by mushrooms and gliding for instance). i definitely feel that there is a sense of accomplishment when you are able to reach a destination that was before unreachable to you, and attempts to hone in on what materoidvania games have accomplished as a method of horiztonal progression.

While true the system is not perfect, as many have complained that the system isn’t good enough as it is, and more complaints about being forced to grind to access the most basic of transportation methods, it’s still a step in the right direction, and with keen honing and testing, they’ll find the most apt solution for providing meaningful progression without interfering with gameplay (and i believe a lack of gliding and jumping mushrooms indeed interfere with gameplay).

when I mention these things in game(only after being asked direct questions) I am told the same thing “why do you play mmos” the answer? because I enjoy the playtime I get with my wife and my friends(before they all quit gw2 rather then spend hundreds of gold regearing their mains after last feature pack: my friends that is). there are no high quality massive single player rpgs anymore as mmos have replaced them. while I understand the need for group content I feel that less social players who simply want to silently play their game are excluded when you require player counts. until anet either establishes a banned on first social violation(thus scaring everyone into playing nice) or gear inspects/build inspects being declared as forms of player harassment this will continue. I originally thought anet agreed that “every player and every build should be accepted every time” was their stated goal(and a good goal). but a lack of follow through on the zerk only toxicity has shown otherwise. it should be noted that I am willing and capable of enjoying group play by taking instructions that are content only related (what to do at a particular boss etc) without being told what I must run/equip.
I do not enjoy my average interaction with other players and so I find following in silence is the best course for me and groups.

Completely agree on this. Elitist behaviour has to go out the window forever. I think that whatever follows the elimination of that toxic behaviour will indeed make group play more fun, but there still needs to be an answer for players who prefer to play solo.

I’m done with this post I had more to say but I see I am expressing it through a frustrated perspective which solves nothing. I can only hope I am judging the expansion on an incomplete system. otherwise I am discouraged that I spent 200$(two copies of ultimate. one for me and one for my wife) on content I can never play.

What we have seen is incomplete, as this was simply a beta test and not truly reminiscent of the final launch product. I do hope that improvements for player quality of life and a crackdown on elitist behaviour is made. However, with the way raids are seemingly made, it’s becoming more and more likely that elitist behaviour is here to stay, by Anets encouragement no less.

http://dulfy.net/2014/03/20/gw2-feature-pack-patch-information-roadmap/

april 2nd-3rd. here is the proof it existed even if I can’t show what it said

Seera.5916:

@Warlock, would two LFG’s for dungeons be a good compromise? One random grouper that groups based on dungeon path chosen and language of server (EU side does have language specific servers). This is for the casuals who don’t want to play meta. The one we have now remains and is used for specific runs. The meta players and the teaching runs would be here. Or the groups needing something specific to get through part of a dungeon.

We have this already.

System 1 : Go to LFG, write : Path 1, all welcome.

System 2 : Go to LFG, write : Path 1, (insert conditions here).

@ Warlock, why do you need to “fight the zerker meta”? Just use system 1… Or system 2 and say “no zerk”. A meta will always exist, zerker is the current choice because of encounter/dungeon/fractal design.

Warlock.7136:

I see how your looking at this as a trinity vs non trinity concept. what I am saying is that any class should be able to fill all roles. defensive/offensive/healer,utility.

And that’s the case right now. All profession can fill all those roles.

Warlock.7136:

and that all game content should allow for a group that fills these roles to do the content as efficiently as a group that only has representatives from one role, offense. the idea is to accept every player with every build(or role) everytime.

What? So any build would be equal? So you want 10 Healers to be as efficient as a balanced group or 10 DPS? That make no sense. There is thousands of build and any combinaison of 5 or 10 of any build would be equaly efficient within a small margin of error? Now you just sound delusional and a bit extremist.

Now, this is my opinion and I think that it’s a more realistic view of what you are talking about.

- There should be a better balance between different game style. Utility, Support and Direct damage are for now the only two that are worth it. Condition is on the right track, but still a lot of work to do. Healing power scale horribly and content isn’t hard enough to make us need it.

- There should be a better balance for what those game style cost. You can usually take utility and support without dropping you dps much or even at all, while healing for example cost a lot.

- There will always be one best composition/build by encounter. What you can do is allow different setup to be near as effective depending on the players. For exemple, full dps with some support could be the absolute best setup in the hands of very good player, while a party tanky dps could be as good as a mix of full dps and some healer in a pug setting.

ty castle that was a well thought out post and I can see where you are coming from on all of it and agree with a large portion of it. a thought on revenant and the “nightmare of coding” it. when an ele shifts element it’s a weapon bar shifts the skills that are available and these are all balanced by the dev team. revenant could have been made to easily function in this method. i.e. when you shift to shiro on hammer shiro uses hammer differently then glint does. then 4 or 5 new utility skills could have been added. this would effectively be only a small balance and reskinning code that was already available.

All those articles were about the MegaServer:

Introducing the Megaserver System

by Colin Johanson and Samuel Loretan on April 2, 2014

https://web.archive.org/web/20140715220740/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-megaserver-system/

The Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events

by Colin Johanson and Anthony Ordon on April 3, 2014

https://web.archive.org/web/20140715220316/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-megaserver-system-world-bosses-and-events/

The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future

by Colin Johanson on April 3, 2014

https://web.archive.org/web/20140715234112/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-megaserver-system-guilds-and-the-future/

https://web.archive.org/web/20140510055449/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/ (This is the entirety of the April Feature Patch)

I’m afraid there was nothing in those articles about your ‘quote’. Sorry.

Coulter.2315:

Seera.5916:

@Warlock, would two LFG’s for dungeons be a good compromise? One random grouper that groups based on dungeon path chosen and language of server (EU side does have language specific servers). This is for the casuals who don’t want to play meta. The one we have now remains and is used for specific runs. The meta players and the teaching runs would be here. Or the groups needing something specific to get through part of a dungeon.

We have this already.

System 1 : Go to LFG, write : Path 1, all welcome.

System 2 : Go to LFG, write : Path 1, (insert conditions here).

@ Warlock, why do you need to “fight the zerker meta”? Just use system 1… Or system 2 and say “no zerk”. A meta will always exist, zerker is the current choice because of encounter/dungeon/fractal design.

this has been tried and after an hour of waiting(not an exaggeration) on multiple attempts, you see zerk group after zerk group fill and start while your group gets no players.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

All those articles were about the MegaServer:

Introducing the Megaserver System

by Colin Johanson and Samuel Loretan on April 2, 2014

https://web.archive.org/web/20140715220740/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-megaserver-system/

the articles you are providing are not the “facilitating friendlier play” articles.

when you bring up the april pack on the right hand side of the screen were some preview articles that have been taken down. one was “facilitating friendlier play” where this article was you now have only the articles about the September feature pack.

The Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events

by Colin Johanson and Anthony Ordon on April 3, 2014

https://web.archive.org/web/20140715220316/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-megaserver-system-world-bosses-and-events/

The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future

by Colin Johanson on April 3, 2014

https://web.archive.org/web/20140715234112/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-megaserver-system-guilds-and-the-future/

https://web.archive.org/web/20140510055449/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/ (This is the entirety of the April Feature Patch)

I’m afraid there was nothing in those articles about your ‘quote’. Sorry.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-megaserver-system-guilds-and-the-future/

this is an example page and not the article notice on the right hand side of the screen it says “September feature pack” with a bunch of links. when that had the april links it had one entitles “facilitating friendlier play” which had the quote. as I have said repeatedly this was taken down when the new feature pack came up and has not been archived anywhere that I can find.

Geez louise. Are you using the links I provided??? Evidently not. I went to the trouble to find your ‘lost’ articles; please peruse them.

Good luck.

Warlock.7136:

Coulter.2315:

Seera.5916:

@Warlock, would two LFG’s for dungeons be a good compromise? One random grouper that groups based on dungeon path chosen and language of server (EU side does have language specific servers). This is for the casuals who don’t want to play meta. The one we have now remains and is used for specific runs. The meta players and the teaching runs would be here. Or the groups needing something specific to get through part of a dungeon.

We have this already.

System 1 : Go to LFG, write : Path 1, all welcome.

System 2 : Go to LFG, write : Path 1, (insert conditions here).

@ Warlock, why do you need to “fight the zerker meta”? Just use system 1… Or system 2 and say “no zerk”. A meta will always exist, zerker is the current choice because of encounter/dungeon/fractal design.

this has been tried and after an hour of waiting(not an exaggeration) on multiple attempts, you see zerk group after zerk group fill and start while your group gets no players.

So that means the option you want isn’t popular, to the point where no one will join you for hours..

You’re either exaggerating or you’ve destroyed your own desires through proving no one wants it.

Members
Location:New Eden
Profession:Guardian
Guild Tag:[DKAL]
Server:Piken Square

Posted 21 March 2014 – 09:40 AM

View Postraspberry jam, on 21 March 2014 – 09:30 AM, said:

Dyes account bound when?

If you look at the side bar in the main feature pack article, you can see multiple topics they are going to debate:

Quote

April 2014 Feature Pack1. Traits Unleashed: Forty New Traits and More!

2. Announcing the April 2014 Feature Pack!

3. mar 21 The Art of Combat

4. mar 21 Critical!

5. mar 24 A New Way to Explore the Looks of Guild Wars 2

6. mar 24 A Colorful Outlook

7. mar 26 Looking For Group?

8. mar 27 Removing Restrictions

9. mar 27 Account-Bound

10. mar 28 A Solid Foundation

11. abr 2 Facilitating Friendly Play

12. abr 3 Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Two

13. abr 4 Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Three

this is a blog by a player talking about the feature pack and the “facilitating friendlier play”
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/90784-tera-rising-guild-wars-2-new-classes/
but if you click the link in the post it takes you to the September info. like I said it has been taken down.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Geez louise. Are you using the links I provided??? Evidently not. I went to the trouble to find your ‘lost’ articles; please peruse them.

Good luck.

you did not find it I have read those articles because they were archived. the article you are looking for was a link on the right side of the screen. in similar fashion to what the September feature pack now has. the articles you posted are from a different section of info on that feature pack but are not the “facilitating friendlier play article” which talked about group hits counting for loot drops and the quote I gave.

Omg. Taken down and archived. Links provided. If you think you will find a News Blog with that title, ‘Facilitating Friendlier Play’, you are mistaken.

The teasers for each article for the April Feature Pack, were just that….teasers. Something for us to speculate about. As noted in your Dulfy link, the title of the article changed once it was actually published. Dulfy’s article was written before the last 3 News Blogs were posted. Thus the title change. ‘Facilitating Friendlier Play’ was referring to the new MegaServer System. As proven in the archived web pages I linked above.

Please, do pass this message onto your lovely wife: ‘You, dear woman, are a saint!’

this is starting a downward spiral again. you are frustrated. I am frustrated. can we go back to the calm discussion we were having?

I count castle as the last post that was part of that calm discussion.

Warlock.7136:

ty castle that was a well thought out post and I can see where you are coming from on all of it and agree with a large portion of it. a thought on revenant and the “nightmare of coding” it. when an ele shifts element it’s a weapon bar shifts the skills that are available and these are all balanced by the dev team. revenant could have been made to easily function in this method. i.e. when you shift to shiro on hammer shiro uses hammer differently then glint does. then 4 or 5 new utility skills could have been added. this would effectively be only a small balance and reskinning code that was already available.

My comment wasn’t about coding, it was specifically about the balance aspect.

With the elementalist, they don’t change weapons. as such they have 4 static bars on their weapon bar. However, with the revenant, if the utilities were swappable, they’d have to account for several variations of a single bar.

If we take glint for example, and instead of having facet of nature be an f2, we place it as a swappable utility, they’d have to account for four different utility bars, three of which would have variations of the bar with facet of nature and the fourth without it. Then the same would have to be done with the four other legends.

So far, that’s 20 unique sets of utility bar differences if each legend was given an extra utility skill. All those bars would need to be balanced with the energy mechanic on top of that.

At this point the similarities between the revenant and every other profession seem identical, with an almost keen similarity between the revenant and thief regarding skill usage of a reloading energy mechanic.

However, this is the point where the revenant diverges from the other classes in terms of balance.

The revenants can now choose two of five legends, each with 4 different choices considering their utility bar layout, and swap between them mid combat.

Now that’s 16 variations of a combat bar. Each of those 4 bars needs to interact with the 4 bars of another legend so that they don’t become overpowered for a specific combat scenario.

And there are 5 legends.

That leads to a few hundred variations of the side bar.

Now admittedly the same can be said of other professions, considering their superior versatility regarding the utility bar and what can be placed on it. However, in any combat scenario, there needs to be concerend about how any combination of 5 utility skills interact. With the revenant, there’s the concern of 5 utility skills interacting with each other, and then also interacting with another set of 5 utility skills in combat.

And that’s without touching the weapon sets.

Arguably the elementalist and the engineer come closest to breaking the same barrier, what with elementalists having 4 weapon sets during any combat scenario and then being able to slot 4 conjure weapons on their bar and with engineers having a wide variety of kits that change their weapon bars as well.

However, there are differences.

With the elementalist, they cannot change weapons, leading to a static set of 20 skills for the profession instead of the usual 10 for any other class. And then, conjures override the ability for elementalists to easily swap between their elemental attunements and the conjured weapons. Once a weapon is conjured, it only has 25 charges and a limited amount of time use, with a very final use when changing the weapon before both th charges and the time expires on the conjured weapon. On top of that, the weapon skills on those conjured weapons never vary. Furthermore, the usage of a utility skill to grant an extra weapon slot takes the place of a perhaps more convenient and versatile utility skill, making that one less utility slot to balance mid combat, and after usage the conjured weapon immediately goes on cooldown.

With the engineer, they essentially have three bars, weapon bar, utility bar and toolkit bar. Then they have the ability to slot kits which change their weapon bar in all 5 utility slots, which also changes their toolkit bar. However, balance wise, engineers cannot change weapons, instead relying on their kits to give them versatility. they also inherently lack the attunement mechanics of elementalists, which can lead to a scenario where, if they so choose, they can only have three bars instead of many more. The same scenario for a weapon bar switch and a utility slot being taken that elementalist has with conjures can also be applied to engineers, as a utility slot that may have more versatility is taken up by a kit to make up for the lack of weapon swap. However those kits don’t have cooldowns or charges, and in essence are weapon swaps for the engineer. With a total of 5 slots being able to be swapped between, there are 7 bars that the engineer has access to. However, 1 of those bars is completely taken up by weapon swap mechanics, providing no benefit outside that. Whats more, each slot for the toolkit bar is tied to the specific utility that is slotted in it’s representative slot on the utility bar. As such they are an extention of the utility bar and not a true bar on it’s own. so that’s 5 weapon swaps at the same time on an engineer. however, those weapon swaps are not assisted by more versatile utilities that don’t take up a weapon bar slot.

Now going back to the revenant. Not only does the revenant have a weapon swap, but also a utility bar swap. To begin with, that’s two heals and two elites that the revenant has access to at any given time. After that, the three utility skills on each bar also need to be balanced with each other.

So far it’s difficult, but it’s manageable, seeing as those bars are static in combat. But having the ability for each of those 2 bars to have different utilities leads to a range of utilities that need to be managed. While self contained in a bar, they still have strong variations and interactions with a second bar as well, with all of those skills being versatile in that they can be used without changing the weapon bar. This more than anything leads to an inherent advantage in the revenant, as it’s pretty difficult to tell which bar of 16 sets is currently on the revenants utility bar, instead of one of 2 bars as it currently is.

The situation becomes infinitely more manageable if an extra heal or elite is swappable in each legends bar, as there becomes only 4 bars to balance between instead of 16. However, elites are inherently made to be powerful, and as such, having a change between to varieties of powerful skills and being able to swap between those creates a problem inherent only to the revenant. The heal skill is also in a similar situation (however, regarding the state that support is becoming way more viable in heart of thorns, the argument about the power of heals is up in the air, and as such does not hold weight on this particular issue in my opinion.)

As such there’s a vital difference between the revenant and other professions in that they have two bars that can be swapped instead of a single bar that has a variety of swaps, often at the cost of versatility on their utilities. The issue was much less pronounced when the initial stance was that revenants could not weapon swap and in fact, in that scenario, i’d be arguing vehemently for some form of variety within the utility bar and legends swap mechanic, as the class would become stale because any variety is smacked by a very readable sticker of “this is what’s on my bar” that cannot be changed.

However, now with weapon swap, i’m less inclined to argue against the current state of the revenant, as there os more versatility (however unideal it might be). I actually think that flavour wise, the revenant is more versatile now than it would be with a single weapon and two legends with a choice of 3 utilities out of 4 on their bar. If there are more choices within the revenant legends, the issue becomes more pronounced, and as such, each of those skills would be weakened by the existence of others. Further, they would run the possibility of ruining the flavour of each individual utility if more than one extra utility is added.

I do agree heavily that the revenant would feel fresher with the ability for more variety. but we run into balance issues that would bog down the feel of the revenant and for that, no matter how much i may disagree with the decision, i do understand it.

again ty a well thought out and well stated post. my idea was for the revenant to work kinda like this.

f1-f5 shifts legends. no weapon swap on class. when you shift legend you shift the weapon skills not the utility bar. the utility bar is fully customizable as with any class. yes this would require new utilities but seeing as we are adding a new class this should have been done as part of the class development.

as it stands now I am unsure I will play the new class,which is yet another disappointment to me about HoT. the entire class feels like it isn’t a class but more an adaptation to an earlier gw2 personal story line mechanic. in the norn story line when you assault the jotun leader. you are given either a sword or a wolf form. when you go wolf form you combat stats are that form and not your own. I feel like revenant is an extension of this. and just as it is annoying to be turned into a moa and have your combat bar locked into a skill set not your own, I find the idea of unsetable utilities to be for a lack of a better way of expressing it lazy. instead of having a new class that adds more build variety we are given a broken jukebox. that is to say that it holds several records and can play them but they were not your chosen music they were what were stocked inside the jukebox. idk. maybe I should just give up on thinking of gw2 classes as play your way and start thinking of them as console classes where you take x class and you get 4 skills to use in that class. it just feels like because it has no customization options that all revenants will end up the same cookie cutter/min maxer setup. I feel like my class system was lobotomized and revenant is the resulting zombie walking around asking for change.

@Warlock

The ironic thing is if you had posted on the forums asking if anyone wanted to YOLO PvE with you, you would be getting a much more positive response. I don’t do PvE regularly but when I do for a change of pace or because a friend needs one more guy I don’t really care about optimization (in PvP on the other hand I can be elitist – but I really don’t care if that makes you think I am a bad person – I want to win and if you don’t have a microphone I probably won’t play with you as I’ve learned through experience that it effectively handicaps the team) and wouldn’t mind inviting you to do Fractals with me when we have an extra slot.

However, when you come barreling in saying gear and build pinging should be classified as player harassment and talk about how upsetting you find trash talking it turns a lot of people off. We know longer sympathize with you for having negative experiences and just see you as a bully with a lack of self awareness.

I can definitely see the appeal for that. However, mechanics wise, that would be the same as the elementalist mechanics, and as such would hurt the class further. I did however enjoy the interpretation of being able to change both bars depending on your legend, with a small set of swappable utilities.

For example, there are two heals. One that is a heal that removes conditions and another that heals and provides three boons.

On jallis, the heal that removes conditions would grant stacks of retaliation for every condition removed and for mallyx, the heal would be stronger per condition and grant a small amount of resistance but not remove the conditions. The basic principle being that the heal has to do with conditions. As for the boons heal, Jallis could for example grant protection, aegis and vigor, while for mallyx there could be resistance and an increase to condition duration by 30% (or whatever, the number isn’t the point, it’s the effect).

and in that way have the entire bar customised and changed depending on the legend being channeled, with a 6th ‘mist’ state that serves as the basis of the classes. And for the class mechanic, the legend swaps can choose between 2 of the 5 legends and the mist class as the ‘base’ class.(which is what new revenants would start with.) Weapon skills could vary too. The mist form of the hammer stays as it currently is, a long ranged weapon. While in jallis form, the weapon becomes a short ranged weapon, with perhaps the spinning hammers utility being one of the weapon skills but not an upkeep. While with mallyx it would do similar stuff to what the mace currently does and become a condition weapon.

With a small set of utilities (perhaps 5 or 6 utilities, 2 heals and only 1 elite to be the elites the legends now have) and a small set of weapons (perhaps what the have now) the legends then influence what appears on the bar. the end result being a perhaps unique class with the energy mechanic remaining the same.

EDIT: before anyone jumps the gun, i feel that this design is something that should be utilised for another class, not the revenant. it’s far too late to make sweeping changes like the ones i’m suggesting, even though that would be nice.

how am I being a bully? I see that as a very serious statement. I have not insulted anyone. I am not saying it is my way or no way at all. I am trying to have a calm open discussion about the raid system and the revenant. grouping and player interactions were not something that should have been discussed here. I have repeatedly apologized on any post that was taken aggressively and I am truly sorry if you feel I bullied you in any way. and apologize if anyone else felt bullied.

This thread has lost all meaning, I’m unsure of what it is exactly you were hoping to achieve or learn from your original post. So don’t take this as rude because I’m genuinely curious.

What exactly are you hoping to achieve from this thread ? Are you trying to give suggestions and ideas or are you asking for suggestions and ideas ?

What is your summarized stance on the three subjects you brought up ?

Let me show it side by side.

http://dulfy.net/2014/03/20/gw2-feature-pack-patch-information-roadmap/

March 20 – Traits Unleashed: Forty New Traits and More!

March 21 – The Art of Combat

March 21 – Critical!

March 25 – A New Way to Explore the Looks of Guild Wars 2

March 25 – A Colorful Outlook

March 26 – Looking for Group?

March 27 – Removing Restrictions

March 27 – Account-Bound

March 28 – A Solid Foundation

April 2 – Facilitating Friendly Play

April 3 – Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Two

April 4 – Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Three

https://web.archive.org/web/20140510055449/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/

The link Inculpatus cedo.9234 was kind to link

Blog Posts

03 Apr The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future

The megaserver system and the future of guilds, WvW, and more.

03 Apr The Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events

Our new megaserver system is bringing some changes to the way open-world boss encounters work.

02 Apr Introducing the Megaserver System

Learn all about our plan for bringing more players together in Guild Wars 2!

28 Mar PvP Reward Tracks and Gear Unification

The April 2014 Feature Pack is bringing big changes to PvP items and rewards! Read on to learn about our exciting plans.

27 Mar Say Goodbye to Armor Repair Costs and Hello to Free Trait Resets

The feature build is bringing in some economic changes. Learn all about them here!

27 Mar Account-Bound WXP, Legendaries, and Ascended Gear

Log in on April 15 to take advantage of account-bound World XP, ascended gear, and legendary weapons!

26 Mar Social Play Improvements

As part of the April 2014 Feature Pack, we’re introducing improvements to LFG and other social features!

25 Mar Dyes in the New Account Wardrobe

Big changes are coming to dyes in Guild Wars 2!

25 Mar Introducing the Wardrobe System

Prepare to enjoy a whole new way to customize all of your characters’ looks!

21 Mar Learn About Critical Damage Changes

The April 2014 Feature Pack is bringing changes to the way critical damage works. Read on to learn about ferocity, critical damage, and more!

21 Mar Runes, Sigils, and Balance Updates

Roy Cronacher and Karl McLain explain the exciting changes coming to runes, sigils, and class balance!

20 Mar Traits Unleashed: Forty New Traits and More!

Roy Cronacher and Karl McLain discuss major improvements to the trait system!

20 Mar Announcing the April 2014 Feature Pack!

The first-ever feature pack for Guild Wars 2 is coming on April 15!

Can you now see that the last 3 your so hung up on are indeed april 2 Introducing the Megaserver System april 3 the Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events and 03 Apr The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future

The mega servers sure help with getting groups in a friendly manner since your grouped with friends list and guild your in

Edit
Since all of the names on dulfys list are indeed the teaser names

Random.4691:

This thread has lost all meaning, I’m unsure of what it is exactly you were hoping to achieve or learn from your original post. So don’t take this as rude because I’m genuinely curious.

What exactly are you hoping to achieve from this thread ? Are you trying to give suggestions and ideas or are you asking for suggestions and ideas ?

What is your summarized stance on the three subjects you brought up ?

the original intent of this thread was to discuss some of the content of HoT and how it could be improved. both through the expression of my thoughts and opinions and the thoughts and opinions of others. specifically the raid system and the revenant class.

Linken.6345:

Let me show it side by side.

http://dulfy.net/2014/03/20/gw2-feature-pack-patch-information-roadmap/

March 20 – Traits Unleashed: Forty New Traits and More!

March 21 – The Art of Combat

March 21 – Critical!

March 25 – A New Way to Explore the Looks of Guild Wars 2

March 25 – A Colorful Outlook

March 26 – Looking for Group?

March 27 – Removing Restrictions

March 27 – Account-Bound

March 28 – A Solid Foundation

April 2 – Facilitating Friendly Play

April 3 – Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Two

April 4 – Facilitating Friendly Play: Part Three

https://web.archive.org/web/20140510055449/https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/feature-packs/

The link Inculpatus cedo.9234 was kind to link

Blog Posts

03 Apr The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future

The megaserver system and the future of guilds, WvW, and more.

03 Apr The Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events

Our new megaserver system is bringing some changes to the way open-world boss encounters work.

02 Apr Introducing the Megaserver System

Learn all about our plan for bringing more players together in Guild Wars 2!

28 Mar PvP Reward Tracks and Gear Unification

The April 2014 Feature Pack is bringing big changes to PvP items and rewards! Read on to learn about our exciting plans.

27 Mar Say Goodbye to Armor Repair Costs and Hello to Free Trait Resets

The feature build is bringing in some economic changes. Learn all about them here!

27 Mar Account-Bound WXP, Legendaries, and Ascended Gear

Log in on April 15 to take advantage of account-bound World XP, ascended gear, and legendary weapons!

26 Mar Social Play Improvements

As part of the April 2014 Feature Pack, we’re introducing improvements to LFG and other social features!

25 Mar Dyes in the New Account Wardrobe

Big changes are coming to dyes in Guild Wars 2!

25 Mar Introducing the Wardrobe System

Prepare to enjoy a whole new way to customize all of your characters’ looks!

21 Mar Learn About Critical Damage Changes

The April 2014 Feature Pack is bringing changes to the way critical damage works. Read on to learn about ferocity, critical damage, and more!

21 Mar Runes, Sigils, and Balance Updates

Roy Cronacher and Karl McLain explain the exciting changes coming to runes, sigils, and class balance!

20 Mar Traits Unleashed: Forty New Traits and More!

Roy Cronacher and Karl McLain discuss major improvements to the trait system!

20 Mar Announcing the April 2014 Feature Pack!

The first-ever feature pack for Guild Wars 2 is coming on April 15!

Can you now see that the last 3 your so hung up on are indeed april 2 Introducing the Megaserver System april 3 the Megaserver System: World Bosses and Events and 03 Apr The Megaserver System: Guilds and the Future

The mega servers sure help with getting groups in a friendly manner since your grouped with friends list and guild your in

Edit
Since all of the names on dulfys list are indeed the teaser names

this is a list of links to unrelated articles from what I was talking about. no expression of me was in these posts and when this turned the thread aggressive I ceased to talk about it and tried to calmly redirect the conversation back to the revenant and the raiding system if you felt or anyone felt bullied by links posted on an unrelated topic to the thread discussion I am truly sorry and tried to end it and redirect it as calmly and considerately as I could at the time.

So no were did they promise
quote “every player/every class/every build accepted everytime”

So you got your complaints from a message that was never stated by anet.

On the revenant what you seem to want is a copy of elementalist attunement but instead call them legends?
I would have skipped weapon switch and have 3 legends that swaped out the 3 utility skills and add a f4 (maybe an f5 to) for each legend giving them close but not the same nr of skills as the elementalist. + depending on legend your weapon skills worked diffrently so the legends would be
1 melee power
1 melee condi
1 healing melee
1 ranged condi
1 range power
1 range condi
for example and you mix the 3 you like.

They would be very versatile but only a master of 1 due to what gear they wear.