Guild Wars 2

I realise noone is being truly forced to spec their Ele into water/arcane, but 2.5 years of playing Ele (and various Ele builds) a whole lot have taught me that

To me (and I note, many/most Eles), Elemental Attunement (EAtt) is an integral part of the Ele class, IMO to such an extent that it is as class-defining as the attunement mechanic itself. I’ve tried not playing with EAtt, but to me at least, the class just plain feels wrong without it. I’d rather lose access to the 5 attunement skills of an element or 2 rather than lose access to EAtt.

Consequently, 1 of my speclines in HOT will always be arcane, which is the same as it is now I guess, so why complain? Well, a bunch of other “compulsory” traits were just made baseline because the skill/class was crappy without it, and it seems plain to me that EAtt is the textbook definition of this category of traits.

So yes, I would strongly argue it should also be baseline to Ele, even if it meant nerfing the AOE aspect (ie: make a solo version of it the baseline, with a trait to restore the AOE aspect) and/or the duration of the buffs it gives, and/or some other aspect of Ele to bring it into balance.

I agree. It would be a huge buff to a really strong class though.
And Arcane traits would feel not that impressive after.

scerevisiae.1972:

I realise noone is being truly forced to spec their Ele into water/arcane

I guess one could say you aren’t forced in to water arcane, but one could also say you aren’t forced to have any survivability, to deal any damage, to have any response to control or conditions, or to actually use your class mechanic more than once in a blue moon. Because water and arcane were (and from what I see of the absurdly conservative changes that are coming, still will be) the only paths to getting a reasonable amount of any of that, especially survivability.

Conncept.7638:

scerevisiae.1972:

I realise noone is being truly forced to spec their Ele into water/arcane

I guess one could say you aren’t forced in to water arcane, but one could also say you aren’t forced to have any survivability, to deal any damage, to have any response to control or conditions, or to actually use your class mechanic more than once in a blue moon. Because water and arcane were (and from what I see of the absurdly conservative changes that are coming, still will be) the only paths to getting a reasonable amount of any of that, especially survivability.

I was thinking earth looks very strong now.
-20% damage taken
immunity to conditions
5% damage

There’s a lot of good choices

FrozenChinchilla.5249:

I agree. It would be a huge buff to a really strong class though.
And Arcane traits would feel not that impressive after.

EAtt is strong, sure, but the reason for its popularity IMO is not its power level but rather how much it comlements the base Ele mechanic (attunements) — it makes changing attunements worthwhile.

I agree that Ele (at least in the current game) doesn’t really need buffs, which is why I suggested making baseline a caster-only version, perhaps with reduced boon durations, then adding a trait for the full (current) AOE version.

I fear if EAtt is not made baseline, we’ll just be back in the same predicament Ele’s have been stuck with since release: arcane + water + ?, which after 2.5 years would be such a kitten result.

FrozenChinchilla.5249:

Conncept.7638:

scerevisiae.1972:

I realise noone is being truly forced to spec their Ele into water/arcane

I guess one could say you aren’t forced in to water arcane, but one could also say you aren’t forced to have any survivability, to deal any damage, to have any response to control or conditions, or to actually use your class mechanic more than once in a blue moon. Because water and arcane were (and from what I see of the absurdly conservative changes that are coming, still will be) the only paths to getting a reasonable amount of any of that, especially survivability.

I was thinking earth looks very strong now.
-20% damage taken
immunity to conditions
5% damage

There’s a lot of good choices

-20% damage within a certain range
Immunity to conditions while above a certain health threshold
5% damage which does not affect conditions in a condition damage tree

That is the flaw with how they are designing the elementalist, we have no baseline for defense, and all the defense they give us, except the healing and boons that come with swap spamming, is situational to our attunements or any number of other things, while our DPS is inversely situational. The more we swap the higher our DPS, but the more we swap the less likely we will have any of our defense responses available when it is the appropriate time to use them. Which is why we have to invest in arcane and water, to get the defense inherent to attunement swapping, the only defense that isn’t mitigated to worthlessness by our class mechanic.

We need a reasonable defensive baseline, and with it nerfs to our ‘stackable’ defense. Two years of constant balance work with no results whatsoever have proven that to every experienced ele player that doesn’t sport a red tag next to his or her name.

Personal EA should be baseline and AOE EA might be GM trait or Major but the current is just the arrow on the knee.

I can’t bring myself to play a Warrior without Warrior’s Sprint. I just can’t do it – the class feels clunky and sluggish without that extra mobility, to the point where 10/2 Discipline became completely essential on both my Warriors, usually running up to 20/4. I don’t really see that changing in Heart of Thorns either – slow Warriors are bad Warriors.

Does that mean that Warrior’s Sprint should be baseline for the class?

I get what you’re saying, but generating free boons on attune swap is very powerful, especially considering that attunements recharge pretty quickly at this point. I play a number of different classes and feel that a number of them have ‘key’ traits I can’t quite imagine running the class without (which really stinks for my Thief since they’re wtfpwnooblerating Feline Grace into total pants-on-head worthlessness, and that was the keyest of key traits for my Thief q_q), but the fact that I think those key traits are essential for the class doesn’t mean everyone else does, or that ArenaNet agrees.

Frankly, I’d be very concerned to see something which is exceptionally powerful as a Grandmaster trait just baked into the class. I understand that Elementalists are disadvantaged in terms of defenses – believe me, I understand that – but that strikes me as just being part of the price one pays for having the flexibility and responsiveness of the Attunement system. I’ll admit I’m not by any means a great Elementalist player, but…I dunno.

Maybe I’m just trying to figure out what everybody else gets, if one of the best Grandmasters Elementalists have ends up baked into their class for free. I’m not sure I want to go there.

I will say the changes to Ele, has made me think of making one on top of the Revenant when HoT launches.

Conncept.7638:

Immunity to conditions while above a certain health threshold

Hey man, if you don’t want that, they can always give it to Engi instead

DevilLordLaser.8619:

I can’t bring myself to play a Warrior without Warrior’s Sprint. I just can’t do it – the class feels clunky and sluggish without that extra mobility, to the point where 10/2 Discipline became completely essential on both my Warriors, usually running up to 20/4. I don’t really see that changing in Heart of Thorns either – slow Warriors are bad Warriors.

Does that mean that Warrior’s Sprint should be baseline for the class?

I think if some aspect of the game is not fun, tedious, or is really weak without its accompanying trait, such that virtually every player takes it, then yes, it’s only commonsense that this should be part of the class. Because it’s not really a choice.

I’d argue that EAtt is one of the most frequently taken traits in the whole game, because the class doesn’t play well and just feels plain wrong without it (fire-camping PVE specs excluded, obviously), yet it’s now a GM trait (which everyone will still take).

Contrast this with the mesmer trait Illusionary Persona (IP), which has been made baseline, even though it was nowhere near as popular as EAtt, and mesmer plays just fine without it.

scerevisiae.1972:

I think if some aspect of the game is not fun, tedious, or is really weak without its accompanying trait, such that virtually every player takes it, then yes, it’s only commonsense that this should be part of the class. Because it’s not really a choice.

I’d argue that EAtt is one of the most frequently taken traits in the whole game, because the class doesn’t play well and just feels plain wrong without it (fire-camping PVE specs excluded, obviously), yet it’s now a GM trait (which everyone will still take).

Contrast this with the mesmer trait Illusionary Persona (IP), which has been made baseline, even though it was nowhere near as popular as EAtt, and mesmer plays just fine without it.

Which is a valid argument. I was honestly surprised to see Persona made baseline myself, though frankly once I thought about it, it made more sense than it did at first. This way the Mesmer’s shatter skills are never a waste*, you’ll never misfire a shatter with no illusions out and burn a cooldown for nothing.

Suppose my thing is mostly that my inability to make Warriors without Sprint work is more a function of my own personal self than an honest deficiency of the class. Eatt might be the same way – I do understand that it’s extremely popular and as I recall I’m using it on my own Elementalist at the moment, but I’m also fortunate in that I actually like the Arcane line, unlike apparently every other Elementalist player in the game, rather than seeing it as an imposition on the rest of my build.

Now, full disclosure here – I’m one of those awful dirty scrub-scrub-scrubby PvE players who clearly doesn’t know his head from his mule-daddy (though I will point out that Frior uses a Fresh Air spec, not either of the usual Fire camp builds). That said, as immensely useful as Elemental Attunement is for a Fresh Air build, I feel like it’s still something I should have to pay in trait for. Honestly, because it is that powerful on a quick-swapping damage-crazed build like Fresh Air critmonster. Eatt is one of the things that makes Fresh Air work, and that sort of intensely potent synergy is something you’re supposed to have to sacrifice other synergies for. Making it baseline would almost certainly require the trait to be stripped down and weakened, possibly even put on an ICD, and frankly I loathe ICDs with every last stitch of my being. I would rather take Arcane and use my Grandmaster trait on the current Elemental Attunement than get a baseline ‘Elemental Attunement’ that gives less boons, with less duration, on a 10s ICD.

If that makes any sense? I’m not necessarily arguing your intent or your reasoning – if Eatt is as widespread as you say it is, then yeah, ArenaNet should look into it – but…well, be careful what you wish for, I suppose.

I agree solo version should be baseline especially when you consider what has been made baseline for other classes.

A personal version of EA with the trait making the effect an AoE makes a tremendous amount of good sense and I hope the devs consider it.

Agree with OP completely.

It’s something every ele takes for granted may as well be baseline, though being an AOE buff is kinda OP for baseline, so like suggested above, make it player only and baseline it.

Can Ele be viable without Elemental attunement or Evasive arcana?

If so, it doesn’t need to be baseline.

I don’t know. I guess I’m also a “stupid” ele, but I don’t use EAtt, and it does seem like too much to just hand out for free.

runeblade.7514:

Can Ele be viable without Elemental attunement or Evasive arcana?

If so, it doesn’t need to be baseline.

I think most of the argument is that people feel like they can’t be competitive in PvP (and maybe in WvW) without it. That said, since people rarely state the game mode they are operating under for their argument, it’s difficult to say.

So, there are eles who don’t run staff builds camping on fire? You’re talking about PvP, aren’t you?

runeblade.7514:

Can Ele be viable without Elemental attunement or Evasive arcana?

If so, it doesn’t need to be baseline.

I’d say no. I take EAtt in every build, because the class feels wrong without it.

Which goes to my core point – surely the real question of whether something should be baseline boils down to: “does ele feel right without EAtt?”, to which the vast majority of Eles would say “no”. EAtt is probably the most baseline-worthy trait in the whole game.

Palindrome.8904:

runeblade.7514:

Can Ele be viable without Elemental attunement or Evasive arcana?

If so, it doesn’t need to be baseline.

I think most of the argument is that people feel like they can’t be competitive in PvP (and maybe in WvW) without it. That said, since people rarely state the game mode they are operating under for their argument, it’s difficult to say.

No it’s really not the power level, it’s about how the class feels & plays. The attunement mechanic is largely pointless without EAtt.

I don’t think it should be baseline.
It is a trait that promotes attunement swaping and not ALL elementalist playstyles demand that, (See the firecamping in staff).
It is a very important trait for PvP, but was never needed for PvE.

The true is, IMO, ele needs options to it.
If Lingering Elements worked with the defenses and bonuses of water and earth, the ele would be more free to go for other line than arcana.
If fire line would give a better sustain option (fire aura removing conditions, blinding ashes with ICD per target) the PvP ele would have a valid option over the arcana line without the need to go with ElAtt. And yet, ElAtt would still be a good option for group support.

They need to keep the synergy of the EA’s traits (Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana) and improve the other lines (mostly fire and air) to be valid options for arcana on a PvP environment. And that Environment means Ele need some complementary defense (fire) and burst capability (air) to open up competitive PvP playstyles.

(I did some suggestion regarding the playstyles here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/suggestion-Eles-specs-and-playstyles)

scerevisiae.1972:

No it’s really not the power level, it’s about how the class feels & plays. The attunement mechanic is largely pointless without EAtt.

And this is where you lost me.

I’m honestly boggling over here, just staring at this statement with a stupid look on my face going “what? wha, wha…what?”

The attunement mechanic is supposed to have the point of offering you twice the weapon skills of every other class in the game, barring kit-heavy Engineers. You switch attunements and you get five new skills to use, with five new cooldowns. You get the passive minors for those attunements if you took the corresponding trait(line)s, you get any associated majors you’ve taken, you get…

How, how, HOW is the attunement mechanic ‘largely pointless’ without Elemental Attunement? Attunements are the fundamental engine driving the entire class, you cannot be serious telling me that there’s no point to the attunement system if you don’t get a handful of boons every time you flip attunements.

^ you very obviously don’t play/understand Ele. Yes there’s twice the skills, but a lot of them are filler and are not worth casting in WVW/PVP. Watch any good Ele player play, they only cast 1-2 skills per attunement. So having more skills is not that big of a deal, it’s the diversity of those handful of good skills that are the real bonus. But I digress.

Ele base survivability is the lowest in the game, by a fair margin – lowest base armour, lowest base HP, only 10800HP, and no innate survivability mechanic.

This is why almost every Ele playing PVP/WVW for the past 2.5 years has been forced into some variation of 4+ water, 4+ arcane with cantrips as the only sensible utility choice.

It’s been seriously boring. I play all 8 classes (ele, ranger, mesmer, necro, thief being favourites) and no other class has the same restrictions (ie: big performance/survivability dropoff when deviating from this core spec).

EAtt is both a core survivability mechanic, but it’s also fundamental IMO to making the attunement fun & worthwhile. IMO the class doesn’t feel right without it. If there’s any trait in the game that should be baseline, it’s EAtt, even in a solo, weakened form, and even if it meant nerfing other aspects of the class.

As it stands, most PVP/WVW Eles are going to just spec earth/water/arcane, just like we always have had to do, because the same restriction (low base survivability) applies, and the changes have achieved nothing: the skills/trait lines that were weak before are still weak, the ones that were strong are still strong.

If the express goal of the design changes were to improve choice & diversity, then they have failed hard, and if anything, take the class backward, not forward.

I play ele since beta in all game-modes, and I think I understand it quite well.
But some people seem not to understant what a class baseline is (including whoever set PU baseline for mesmers)

EAtt is not baseline to Ele, is baseline to Eles that constant att swap (and therefore keep the buffs active). It should just be kept as a T2 trait and EA T3, while improving other trait lines to make them viable options to it (mostly air and fire).

The thing is, the constant att swap to get protection and regen, and vigor (and soothing mist) is the only way, at the current state of the game, an Ele can keep itself alive in combat when being focused.
As pointed out, Eles don’t have any baseline defense, be it passive (high armor or hp) or active (stealth or clones). So if you want to be anything besides a backline caster you need arcana to get those buffs that will let you get in combat and able to sustain.
That is why D/D needs water, earth and arcana in PvP. To survive being focused or being in cleave/aoe range. And this option should be kept.

I don’t care if the new elite spec brings new options to do the same. Having a new way to do a role should not justify removing another.

What it should be done is a better look into the fire and air lines to improve their values and make them options (not better, just more viable) for the water/earth/arcana.
And also improve the Lingering Elements trait to work with all attunement exclusive traits, opening up room for the ele to choose other things besides EAtt (since earth protection and water regen will last longer).

Most PvE builds dont ever use EAtt and it would be useless for them to have it, yet they could use lingering elements to improve their dmg and sustain if they choose to go on the attunement swap playstyle. And yes, att dance is a playstyle for the elementalist, its not the only one. I don’t like camping fire, but I’m glad I don’t have to be asked to do it or not do it in PvE or any other game mode.

Thats why I think we need to propose better changes, but with a good idea of the different elementalist playstyles and game modes. Even if you don’t like a certain playstyle or game mode, there should be options there for everyone.

So no, I disagree that Eatt should be baseline, but Yes, it should not compete with EvArcana for GM slot. They both fit the active playstyle (use attunments in an active form to keep sustain – heal, might, blasts, mobility) and this active playstyle should not be removed or nerfed. Yet, it would be nice to open EAtt to be paired with ECont to provide a more boon centric elementalist, that gains boons actively and passively. But then ECont needs to change to provide different boons to have more synergy with EAtt and provide boons that are good enought to compete with EA for the GM slot. (See my suggestion on other topic)

lLobo.7960:

I play ele since beta in all game-modes, and I think I understand it quite well.

my comments were directed at (i thought rather obviously) DevilLordLaser…

lLobo.7960:

EAtt is not baseline to Ele, is baseline to Eles that constant att swap (and therefore keep the buffs active).

Baseline doesn’t necessarily mean that all eles need to benefit from it, eg: attunements are baseline, yet PVE Fire-camping eles that don’t attunement swap are not using their baseline profession mechanic either. The fact these eles don’t attunement swap is really an argument for EAtt being baseline — to create an incentive (ie: an opportunity payback) to attunement swapping.

The only reason fire eles don’t swap is because there is no real reward to, because all their traits are spent maximising damage, whereas if EAtt were baseline, you would see more PVE fire Eles switching to earth for the prot for example.

Point being, fire Eles still have plenty to gain from EAtt, the fact they’re not currently using their profession mechanic doesn’t mean there should be incentives added to make it more worth using.

Nilix.2170:

Conncept.7638:

Immunity to conditions while above a certain health threshold

Hey man, if you don’t want that, they can always give it to Engi instead

Engineers have a high health pool than Elementalists so you might actually get some use out of it, so feel free.

The question really comes down to: Does it change your gameplay? Arenanet have stated that grandmaster (EAtt is now grandmaster) should be something to that really impacts and changes the way you play. I personally think that EAtt isn’t as useful as it could be, but I definitely feel weird whenever I don’t have it. The attunement boons really help you feel like you are in that attunement. I just swapped to air and now I am as swift as the wind! I do feel like this is core to elementalists and should be baseline.

What about the THIRD Arcana Grandmaster trait?

Rylen.2147:

The question really comes down to: Does it change your gameplay? Arenanet have stated that grandmaster (EAtt is now grandmaster) should be something to that really impacts and changes the way you play.

That’s just it. EAtt does not change the way you play, it just makes playing feel right.

Elemental Attunement definitely changes the way you play, even if you haven’t outright noticed it (probably because you’ve always used it). I’d say it’s pretty build-defining, as such it fits a grandmaster trait.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Elemental Attunement definitely changes the way you play, even if you haven’t outright noticed it (probably because you’ve always used it). I’d say it’s pretty build-defining, as such it fits a grandmaster trait.

In pvp, the only viable builds swap attunements constantly. The design of the profession favours it as well. The builds that do not incentivize swapping attunements are among the troll builds category like lava tomb build.

rotten.9753:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Elemental Attunement definitely changes the way you play, even if you haven’t outright noticed it (probably because you’ve always used it). I’d say it’s pretty build-defining, as such it fits a grandmaster trait.

In pvp, the only viable builds swap attunements constantly. The design of the profession favours it as well. The builds that do not incentivize swapping attunements are among the troll builds category like lava tomb build.

I love my lava tomb troll build. Nothing quite like seeing thieves die to your 5k downed lava tomb ticks. Pity they nerfed it with HoT

scerevisiae.1972:

^ you very obviously don’t play/understand Ele. Yes there’s twice the skills, but a lot of them are filler and are not worth casting in WVW/PVP. Watch any good Ele player play, they only cast 1-2 skills per attunement. So having more skills is not that big of a deal, it’s the diversity of those handful of good skills that are the real bonus. But I digress.
…

Then perhaps try and get those skills fixed?

No, I don’t bother with Wuv or PvP for reasons I’m not going to bore you with, but saying that a handful of boons is the entire point behind the attunement system is no less ridiculous a statement for that. The point behind the attunement system is the attunement system. If you need those boons to feel like the switches are actually worth it, then first of all the class’ skills need some rework, and second of all why are you on Elementalist in the first place?

And even if there’s only two worthwhile skills per attunement…well, you’re about six total weapon skills up from the Necromancer. Two “worth casting” skills per attunement leaves you eight skills worth casting, which as I recall is generally three or four more than most PvP builds I’ve seen get.

Semi-reliable access to Protection (which, let’s face it, is what you’re talking about) is not the core defining characteristic of the Elementalist. It sure as shootin’ helps, but given how immensely powerful Eatt can be, it’s way too much to be a baseline thing unless it gets murdered, at which point you will have lost your current Eatt entirely rather than simply being ‘forced’ to take the Arcane traitline for it.

Which of those sounds preferable to you?

Power levels across the board are being increased, a solo version of EAtt as baseline is pretty reasonable. Base Ele has 10.8K HP, the lowest armour in the game, and no innate survival mechanic like stealth, clones or aegis.

Plus the whole point of the trait changes is to increase choice/diversity. Leaving EAtt as a GM just means every non-PVE Ele is going to be speccing arcane, just like they have had to do for the past freaking 2.5 years.

In my opinion, Elemental Attunement isn’t gameplay changing, it’s adding an incentive to use the base mechanic of the class. Something that is gameplay changing is Fresh Air. It demands you focus heavily on your Air attunement and depend on it for damage, swapping to it every 5 seconds.

Elemental Attunement is core to the way the class plays (PvE fire camping builds excluded) in WvW and sPvP. In both game modes you are constantly swapping and this incentivizes it even more. The major power of the trait is it’s AoE nature in those game modes as your’re generating team wide boons for everyone leading to a more support oriented style of gameplay. This could be an issue as a burst elementalist or a DPS oriented one is now doing 2 roles, support and damage.

A baseline version would help the elementalist keep the power from Elemental Attunement which it needs to be competitive as it’s balanced in the mindset that it has access to said boons. Creating a talent which converts this boon generation to AoE would seperate the real power of the talent into 2 different mechanics. You now have a choice, do you want to be an AoE boon generating elementalist and give up damage or do you now spec into other trees for more damage?

Raif.9507:

The major power of the trait is it’s AoE nature in those game modes as your’re generating team wide boons for everyone leading to a more support oriented style of gameplay.

Agree, the basic mechanic of gaining boons on attune is not especially strong (adept trait-ish), it’s the AOE nature that makes it strong. A solo-only version as baseline is not that big of a big power jump in light of all the other changes.

Switching elements is already important to the class. Making it baseline would reduce build diversity by punishing elementalists from focusing on one element (Other than fresh air builds) when it’s already one of their weaker options to the point where only one very specific weapon build can get away with it in one particular game mode.

Eponet.4829:

Switching elements is already important to the class. Making it baseline would reduce build diversity by punishing elementalists from focusing on one element (Other than fresh air builds) when it’s already one of their weaker options to the point where only one very specific weapon build can get away with it in one particular game mode.

So what about Illusionary Persona? That trait is hardly phantasm build friendly yet it’s going to be baseline.

rotten.9753:

Eponet.4829:

Switching elements is already important to the class. Making it baseline would reduce build diversity by punishing elementalists from focusing on one element (Other than fresh air builds) when it’s already one of their weaker options to the point where only one very specific weapon build can get away with it in one particular game mode.

So what about Illusionary Persona? That trait is hardly phantasm build friendly yet it’s going to be baseline.

clones are pretty glassy you know? and it’s not very good that your profession mechanic is useless until you have at least 1 glassy clone which can be dead in less than a second… I think that’s the reason they put IP as baseline, it offers mesmers an option to use their class mechanic even in AOE heavy environment where all their clones are insta-killed… can ele use his class mechanic without EAtt? ofc he can… that’s the difference imo…

Eponet.4829:

Switching elements is already important to the class. Making it baseline would reduce build diversity by punishing elementalists from focusing on one element (Other than fresh air builds) when it’s already one of their weaker options to the point where only one very specific weapon build can get away with it in one particular game mode.

All of PvE is Fire staff. Nearly all fire traits are related to being in fire. We need MORE reasons to be encouraged to attunement swap, instead of just losing 80% of our damage.

dietzero.3514:

Eponet.4829:

Switching elements is already important to the class. Making it baseline would reduce build diversity by punishing elementalists from focusing on one element (Other than fresh air builds) when it’s already one of their weaker options to the point where only one very specific weapon build can get away with it in one particular game mode.

All of PvE is Fire staff. Nearly all fire traits are related to being in fire. We need MORE reasons to be encouraged to attunement swap, instead of just losing 80% of our damage.

aren’t you encouraged already by having different skills? so you can be all the time in fire except for situations where you need some other skill, some CC or heal for example, then back to fire… what’s wrong with this? I think ele was played as a spammy attunement dancer for too long, another options are welcome…

rotten.9753:

Eponet.4829:

Switching elements is already important to the class. Making it baseline would reduce build diversity by punishing elementalists from focusing on one element (Other than fresh air builds) when it’s already one of their weaker options to the point where only one very specific weapon build can get away with it in one particular game mode.

So what about Illusionary Persona? That trait is hardly phantasm build friendly yet it’s going to be baseline.

Phantasms are already the dominant style throughout pretty much every aspect of PvE, to the point where nothing else actually worked. It’s a trait that buffs shatters, which are only commonly seen in PvP.

Buffing an underused playstyle creates more viable playstyles, buffing an already dominant type reduces the viability of anything else.

The only build that anyone ever sat on a single element with was fire with the staff, and that only ever happened in dungeon groups. Every other weapon combination already swaps attunements like crazy. Even staff does if you value CC, healing, reflection, and condition removal.

MaXi.3642:

dietzero.3514:

Eponet.4829:

Switching elements is already important to the class. Making it baseline would reduce build diversity by punishing elementalists from focusing on one element (Other than fresh air builds) when it’s already one of their weaker options to the point where only one very specific weapon build can get away with it in one particular game mode.

All of PvE is Fire staff. Nearly all fire traits are related to being in fire. We need MORE reasons to be encouraged to attunement swap, instead of just losing 80% of our damage.

aren’t you encouraged already by having different skills? so you can be all the time in fire except for situations where you need some other skill, some CC or heal for example, then back to fire… what’s wrong with this? I think ele was played as a spammy attunement dancer for too long, another options are welcome…

The problem is getting back into fire, and what to do while waiting on the 10 second cooldown. maybe if Attunements actually did something baseline it would be good.

dietzero.3514:

The problem is getting back into fire, and what to do while waiting on the 10 second cooldown. maybe if Attunements actually did something baseline it would be good.

you have more skills and more attunements… if you can’t fill 10 sec with other weapon skills (15), you must be doing something wrong… and if you mean just the dps loss, that’s the point, you switch attunement for something specific and this 10 sec CD is a tradeoff…

MaXi.3642:

dietzero.3514:

Eponet.4829:

Switching elements is already important to the class. Making it baseline would reduce build diversity by punishing elementalists from focusing on one element (Other than fresh air builds) when it’s already one of their weaker options to the point where only one very specific weapon build can get away with it in one particular game mode.

All of PvE is Fire staff. Nearly all fire traits are related to being in fire. We need MORE reasons to be encouraged to attunement swap, instead of just losing 80% of our damage.

aren’t you encouraged already by having different skills? so you can be all the time in fire except for situations where you need some other skill, some CC or heal for example, then back to fire… what’s wrong with this? I think ele was played as a spammy attunement dancer for too long, another options are welcome…

Attunement swapping by itself is a really weak profession mechanic – there are more (20) skills but really, all it amounts to is padding 10 good skills out with 10 bad skills and forcing players to use a switching mechanic to access these 10 good skills.

Without something like EAtt, having to attunement swap just to get to use your good skills is worse than not having the attunement mechanic at all, and just having 2 regular weapon skill bars.

Combine this with the lowest HP and armour in the game, and no innate survivability (through class mechanics like stealth, clones, aegis, etc), and it’s little surprise that virtually every PVP/WVW Ele specs EAtt and takes survivability utilities (cantrips).

It’s also why many/most Eles consider EAtt to be fundamentally part of the core class mechanic, which should be baseline to the class (in a solo, instead of AOE, form).

Without it as baseline, every PVP/WVW is going to be forced to spec arcane, just like we’ve had to do for the past 2.5 years, just to make our class playable/enjoyable/viable.

What would be the balancing price for that change? The entire trait rework is already producing power creep through the existing baseline changes and merger of traits (for most/all the professions).

While the comparisons are going on it might be better to deceptive evasion as it is a trait with a similar perceived nature for competitive play and has not be made baseline.

MaXi.3642:

dietzero.3514:

The problem is getting back into fire, and what to do while waiting on the 10 second cooldown. maybe if Attunements actually did something baseline it would be good.

you have more skills and more attunements… if you can’t fill 10 sec with other weapon skills (15), you must be doing something wrong… and if you mean just the dps loss, that’s the point, you switch attunement for something specific and this 10 sec CD is a tradeoff…

So basically just spam everything during those 10 seconds, until you can get back to your actual DPS. Nice. I thought we were meant to save the skills for when they are needed?

Yeah, Attunements need some heavy work done to them. Maybe the Tempest will open something up.

Eponet.4829:

Phantasms are already the dominant style throughout pretty much every aspect of PvE, to the point where nothing else actually worked. It’s a trait that buffs shatters, which are only commonly seen in PvP.

Buffing an underused playstyle creates more viable playstyles, buffing an already dominant type reduces the viability of anything else.

The only build that anyone ever sat on a single element with was fire with the staff, and that only ever happened in dungeon groups. Every other weapon combination already swaps attunements like crazy. Even staff does if you value CC, healing, reflection, and condition removal.

Do you realise that there are only three builds archetypes for ele in PvE? And of those three only one will remain viable for speed runs. The one that sits in one attunement. Elemental Attunement is used only in PvP, just like Illusionary Persona. Both are never used in PvE and only one will be used in the future because for some bizzare reason it got baseline’d together with like 4 other traits.