Guild Wars 2

Since the launch on Friday, all I have seen on the forums is people moaning and the expansion and the so called endless grind and to be honest ots starting to get rather annoying.

When I log into the game its self, I dont see people moaning, I see people having a good time and commenting on how fun it is and how refreshing it is to have an expansion that is different from the Base game yet still has the Gw feel. The only digference in the expansion is there are no heart quests to gain xp, they have been replaced with events, which happen all the time. To expect to be able to buy the expansion and clear all the content in a daymor two, just because you are level 80 is quite frankly ridiculous, tjis is an expansion, but a dlc for season 3, although, aome will arhue that is exactly what it is im sure. The, astry system has replaced the leveling and as you did in the core game, you have to earn the levels to get to higher places, in this case, to get to higher ground.

I admit, it does seem slightly grindy, but only if you want it to be, I have quite happily gained enough mastery in a few days to get to the third map without really thinking abut it. Plus keep in mind that the mastery is account bound, when I wanted to prgress the story and id had enough of events for the time beaing, I simply logged an alt and redid the first part of the story and would you belive it, I had enough, mastery for my updraftmand the language.

The expasion is fun and brilliant at the same time, its just a different way of leveling, if the people who are moaning on here, actually spent more time playing instead of qqing, you might suprise yourselves and realise that you are missing out on a great game.

If you want to grind In a different way to gain more levels which then make the work of the past few years useless then I suggest you play something else, where your loyalty to your character only goes as far as the next expansion.

The solution to moaning is not more moaning.

Just sayin’

I guess the solution is. to. just. not. read. it. ?

Im aware of that majic lol

I contemplated not posting it, but felt i had to say something

haters gonna hate, that is for sure.

This is why sometimes is just better to leave the forums be.

Also the expansion is hardly grindable… but that depends on what meaning players associate to grinding, which might be anything from the chest farming from SW to “oh i am grinding my life right now”

hennrick.4623:

Also the expansion is hardly grindable… but that depends on what meaning players associate to grinding, which might be anything from the chest farming from SW to “oh i am grinding my life right now”

The expansion itself isn’t a grind, unlocking the Elite specs in a reasonable time is. That seems to be what the majority of people are complaining about (see the 52 page thread on it) which is completely understandable, not being able to play the Elite specs without 30-40 hours of just trying to get hero points is hard going for one spec, never mind doing it on alts.

People are allowed to complain. This is all new to Anet, too, they need feedback to understand what is going right with this launch and what people are not enjoying or having trouble with. Shunning people and mocking them for having a complaint is both uncalled for and kinda mean, everyone has their own opinions so if a percentage of the playerbase feels strongly about an issue, why shouldn’t they be allowed to post it in the forums? (the mocking people part wasn’t directed at you, but I’ve seen some nasty posts here and on reddit about people)

That said, complaining is only fine if it’s calm and doesn’t throw insults to other players and the devs. We need to ask for a change, not pressure them with talk of quitting.

Know what is really annoying?? 2800 hero points…… that’s what it costs at the present to work up 7 elites.. and this is for specializations that aren’t truly “elite”. Anet has just dubbed these specializations elite to rationalize this hideous requirement. These elite traits and utilities should cost the same as normal traits and utilities.. I want to enjoy exploring the jungle with the elite specs not run the map with tunnel vision ignoring everything but hero challenges over and over and over and over

psizone.8437:

hennrick.4623:

Also the expansion is hardly grindable… but that depends on what meaning players associate to grinding, which might be anything from the chest farming from SW to “oh i am grinding my life right now”

The expansion itself isn’t a grind, unlocking the Elite specs in a reasonable time is. That seems to be what the majority of people are complaining about (see the 52 page thread on it) which is completely understandable, not being able to play the Elite specs without 30-40 hours of just trying to get hero points is hard going for one spec, never mind doing it on alts.

People are allowed to complain. This is all new to Anet, too, they need feedback to understand what is going right with this launch and what people are not enjoying or having trouble with. Shunning people and mocking them for having a complaint is both uncalled for and kinda mean, everyone has their own opinions so if a percentage of the playerbase feels strongly about an issue, why shouldn’t they be allowed to post it in the forums? (the mocking people part wasn’t directed at you, but I’ve seen some nasty posts here and on reddit about people)

That said, complaining is only fine if it’s calm and doesn’t throw insults to other players and the devs. We need to ask for a change, not pressure them with talk of quitting.

I totally agree with you psizone, people are allowed to complain and have an opinion and I’m not shooting them down for that, what I am saying however is that there are so many people moaning about the expansion for unjust reasons.

It isn’t a grind and but it difficult and time consuming, as i’m sure it is supposed to be.

It seems that people expected everything to be handed to them on a plate and because they cant max out everything in a matter of hours are taking exception to it and complaining it.

The whole point of an expansion is that you get countless hour of extra gameplay or your money, which is exactly what we are getting and I for one think it makes a nice change that it is challenging and time consuming, so when you do eventually get the mastery or the legendary weapons, you feel like you’ve earned it and not just turned it on and get it for doing nothing in return.

The elite specs do take a lot of work and a massive amount of hero points, but its not like you cant access them from the start, you just don’t get access to the full set of skills, which again takes time and effort. Its early days, who knows, the devs may look at lowering it over time, but rather than focusing on what you cant have at the moment, focus on what you can achieve in such a small amount of time and work from there, there’s no rush with these things.

Obviously this is just my opinion and I don’t speak for everyone else but that’s how i’m looking at it

I agree too. Probably i worded too much strongly, this is uncharted territory for everybody.

The more i play the expansion, the more i think that the new content opens up a non-linear leveling-like system, meaning that we have to invest for it time and attenction equal to what we usually do when leveling a character up without, obviously, having the same characteristics of a level up.

Which is simply awesome. Why no new MMO did this already and keeps increasing the level cap!? Or i am simply not aware of some recent releases?

mgee.9263:

I totally agree with you psizone, people are allowed to complain and have an opinion and I’m not shooting them down for that, what I am saying however is that there are so many people moaning about the expansion for unjust reasons.

It isn’t a grind and but it difficult and time consuming, as i’m sure it is supposed to be.

It seems that people expected everything to be handed to them on a plate and because they cant max out everything in a matter of hours are taking exception to it and complaining it.

The whole point of an expansion is that you get countless hour of extra gameplay or your money, which is exactly what we are getting and I for one think it makes a nice change that it is challenging and time consuming, so when you do eventually get the mastery or the legendary weapons, you feel like you’ve earned it and not just turned it on and get it for doing nothing in return.

The elite specs do take a lot of work and a massive amount of hero points, but its not like you cant access them from the start, you just don’t get access to the full set of skills, which again takes time and effort. Its early days, who knows, the devs may look at lowering it over time, but rather than focusing on what you cant have at the moment, focus on what you can achieve in such a small amount of time and work from there, there’s no rush with these things.

Obviously this is just my opinion and I don’t speak for everyone else but that’s how i’m looking at it

At level 80 and before HoT release, how many times have you run around with a weapon that requires a trait line, but an empty trait line for it? How many times have you run around with 2 1/2 of 3 lines active? Sure we get a teaser of the spec , but we’re running around kitten until most of the HoT zones are explored; and since the primary first focus of many player is getting their new shiny elite, that means a lot of people feel forced to play as quickly as possible to get that elite. That combined with knowing the system is setup to take 16 – how many ever hrs it takes on an individual basis to get that, it leaves a feeling of frustration and grind instead of enjoy-ability in playing the content.

You’re missing the point, this game is sold on and it’s target market is “get in, have fun, get out” – If it takes 30-40 hours for people to get to even start testing out the things they have paid for (elite specs), then this game has taken a serious deviation from it’s core philosophy.

I would not mind if unlocking the elite on one char unlocks all for alts.
I would be ok with that.
But having to unlock elites on 8 alts is going to sux my life away.
Yes i like playing a different chars now and then in wvw/pvp hence why i have all the classes.

mgee.9263:

To expect to be able to buy the expansion and clear all the content in a daymor two, just because you are level 80 is quite frankly ridiculous,

you folks claiming that “that” is what we want is what annoys me.
noone wants to finish all of the content in 2 days.

what people want is for the short term things (like unlocking elite spec and progressing personal story) to not be gated behind the stuff that is designed to take months upon months (the mastery system).

long term content is currently blocking progress of the short term content,
that’s why people are annoyed.

mgee.9263:

It seems that people expected everything to be handed to them on a plate and because they cant max out everything in a matter of hours are taking exception to it and complaining it.

Again like many others you make a statement without reading the complaints.

I don’t need to be given them instantly but do need a way of achieving the specs – which I bought this game for – in a reasonable time frame.

There are other game modes than pve and people who don’t pve have massive amounts of playtime and virtually no hps and the projected time to unlock them across multiple toons is beyond ridiculous.

but it is endless grind……
i saw a player with mastery lvl 43 just not
the thing is, ANet didnt give none HC player a chance this time
HoT is for those HC Gamers, not those one with job and life imo :P

Decado.9304:

mgee.9263:

It seems that people expected everything to be handed to them on a plate and because they cant max out everything in a matter of hours are taking exception to it and complaining it.

Again like many others you make a statement without reading the complaints.

I don’t need to be given them instantly but do need a way of achieving the specs – which I bought this game for – in a reasonable time frame.

There are other game modes than pve and people who don’t pve have massive amounts of playtime and virtually no hps and the projected time to unlock them across multiple toons is beyond ridiculous.

they have totaly done a 180 on their no grind philosophy with the mastery system and hero point system. its sad to see..

I did my gwamm on gw and enjoyed it, no complaints even on some of the more grindy titles. I have 300 or so hps from 5k hours played and will not even be considering grinding the 4500 or so hps I need to unlock the specs I bought the game for across my various toons.

mgee.9263:

When I log into the game its self, I dont see people moaning, I see people having a good time and commenting on how fun it is and how refreshing it is to have an expansion that is different from the Base game yet still has the Gw feel.

First thing I saw when I logged in after HoT went live was “This expansion is garbage” in chat. lol

mgee.9263:

Since the launch on Friday, all I have seen on the forums is people moaning and the expansion and the so called endless grind and to be honest ots starting to get rather annoying.

See, that’s pretty much what others are feeling ABOUT the expansion. I know I was having more fun and the game felt more fulfilling and rewarding last week before the expansion. I finally put in 8 hours last night and I only was able to unlock two Masteries and my gold and material rewards are non existent. The maps were dead already and events were not being done. I’ll leave out how unhappy I am at the writing of the story so far. Having Mastery gates in the way of progressing the story is incredibly annoying too.

I will give props to the devs who made the Angel Wings into Gliders, amazing job. The art folks fore Tarir is gorgeous. Everything else though hasn’t been fun or fulfilling for me at all. HoT actually removed more than it gave for me.

How ironic OP, because Since the launch on Friday, all I have seen on the forums is people moaning and the expansion and the so called endless grind and to be honest ots starting to get rather annoying.
When I log into the game its self, I dont see people moaning, I see people having a good time and commenting on how fun it is and how refreshing it is to have an expansion that is different from the Base game yet still has the Gw feel. The only digference in the expansion is there are no heart quests to gain xp, they have been replaced with events, which happen all the time. To expect to be able to buy the expansion and clear all the content in a daymor two, just because you are level 80 is quite frankly ridiculous, tjis is an expansion, but a dlc for season 3, although, aome will arhue that is exactly what it is im sure. The, astry system has replaced the leveling and as you did in the core game, you have to earn the levels to get to higher places, in this case, to get to higher ground.
I admit, it does seem slightly grindy, but only if you want it to be, I have quite happily gained enough mastery in a few days to get to the third map without really thinking abut it. Plus keep in mind that the mastery is account bound, when I wanted to prgress the story and id had enough of events for the time beaing, I simply logged an alt and redid the first part of the story and would you belive it, I had enough, mastery for my updraftmand the language.
The expasion is fun and brilliant at the same time, its just a different way of leveling, if the people who are moaning on here, actually spent more time playing instead of qqing, you might suprise yourselves and realise that you are missing out on a great game.
If you want to grind In a different way to gain more levels which then make the work of the past few years useless then I suggest you play something else, where your loyalty to your character only goes as far as the next expansion.

sean.6058:

How ironic OP, because Since the launch on Friday, all I have seen on the forums is people moaning and the expansion and the so called endless grind and to be honest ots starting to get rather annoying.
When I log into the game its self, I dont see people moaning, I see people having a good time and commenting on how fun it is and how refreshing it is to have an expansion that is different from the Base game yet still has the Gw feel. The only digference in the expansion is there are no heart quests to gain xp, they have been replaced with events, which happen all the time. To expect to be able to buy the expansion and clear all the content in a daymor two, just because you are level 80 is quite frankly ridiculous, tjis is an expansion, but a dlc for season 3, although, aome will arhue that is exactly what it is im sure. The, astry system has replaced the leveling and as you did in the core game, you have to earn the levels to get to higher places, in this case, to get to higher ground.
I admit, it does seem slightly grindy, but only if you want it to be, I have quite happily gained enough mastery in a few days to get to the third map without really thinking abut it. Plus keep in mind that the mastery is account bound, when I wanted to prgress the story and id had enough of events for the time beaing, I simply logged an alt and redid the first part of the story and would you belive it, I had enough, mastery for my updraftmand the language.
The expasion is fun and brilliant at the same time, its just a different way of leveling, if the people who are moaning on here, actually spent more time playing instead of qqing, you might suprise yourselves and realise that you are missing out on a great game.
If you want to grind In a different way to gain more levels which then make the work of the past few years useless then I suggest you play something else, where your loyalty to your character only goes as far as the next expansion.

Okay, honestly not everyone have 2 hours a day to spend because of work, and for the most part; we don’t feel rewarded because of the ludicrous exp gain. We have to work for it? Really? Was this REALLY part of the manifesto?

Why did this thread need to be bumped? The title and content just fuels more arguments. People are allowed to complain, people are allowed to argue against their points but complaining about complainers just gets turned into a flame war.

It bothers me, it has to be said. I’ve been around other MMOs when they began to die. It always starts the same way:

The game studio begins making decisions that upset a large enough portion of the playerbase where you start to see lots of complaints and arguments against the game. This upsets the rest of the hardcore fanbase who become defensive and argumentative. You get lots of “then just quit” or “can I have your stuff then?” rebuttals to complains and it just drives a wedge through the playerbase.

The result is, after a large enough portion of players get fed up and leave, the game starts to die.

Like I said, I’ve been there and seen it happen. This is deja vu.

@MoonRaiden If a treasure is handed over to you without any effort done on your part, would it be considered treasure at all?

If not everyone can afford 2 hours a day worth of playtime, then why would they be playing games in the first place. While I do admit Anet does need to flesh out some issues the expansion has, I don’t think adjusting to someone’s schedule is the right way to do it.

OP might not ever have heard of freedom of speech. be seeing you.

apodelaman.6215:

OP might not ever have heard of freedom of speech. be seeing you.

Not applicable here.

Not that I agree with the OP.

@ Ashen. I disagree. As Americans, we have the right to speak out against corporate greed. be seeing you.

Malkavian.4516:

@MoonRaiden If a treasure is handed over to you without any effort done on your part, would it be considered treasure at all?

If not everyone can afford 2 hours a day worth of playtime, then why would they be playing games in the first place. While I do admit Anet does need to flesh out some issues the expansion has, I don’t think adjusting to someone’s schedule is the right way to do it.

Please watch the video, PLEASE.
Most of the player base are people who has a family, who wanted to hop on to enjoy, who bought the expansion to enjoy, and not grind through walls.

If a treasure is handed to me, it is still a treasure BECAUSE THAT IS HOW I PERCEIVE it. I am not some animal trained to think something is valuable or not, it is not a dam treasure if I perceive it as not, ever heard of a “priceless” treasure? it can be anything, and please don’t use psychology question on me because I am majoring in B.S Psychology.

Malkavian.4516:

@MoonRaiden If a treasure is handed over to you without any effort done on your part, would it be considered treasure at all?

If not everyone can afford 2 hours a day worth of playtime, then why would they be playing games in the first place. While I do admit Anet does need to flesh out some issues the expansion has, I don’t think adjusting to someone’s schedule is the right way to do it.

so wait, if someone has a limited amount of time to partake in their hobby they shouldn’t partake at all?

There are plenty of MMO forums where people ask “if I only have 30 minutes a day to play, can I still get to end game and can I still p-participate in it?”. In today’s busy society you’re lucky if you have that much free time if you ask me.

Making a moaning thread about moaning…… You should know, just as everyone else will, forums after launch will be on the heavy side of moaning threads. People having fun will not be here moaning. It’s that simple.

gee.9263:

…The expasion is fun and brilliant at the same time, its just a different way of leveling, if the people who are moaning on here, actually spent more time playing instead of qqing, you might suprise yourselves and realise that you are missing out on a great game.

If you want to grind In a different way to gain more levels which then make the work of the past few years useless then I suggest you play something else, where your loyalty to your character only goes as far as the next expansion.

As grandma use to say, “the squeaky wheel gets the grease”.
A few facts about the expansion which explains most of the complaining

• A character going into HoT without map competition will not be able to unlock enough the Elite Specialization trait line to play with the Elite Specialization until near the end of HoT. Most of of us were hoping to play most of HoT with our Elite specialization not earn them an end-game reward. We don’t want full unlock immediately but a much faster pace where we could have them playable for most of the HoT content. As designed we can’t. That is worth complaining about. Unrelentingly if need be.

• People were complaining about gated content and ArenaNet listens, which proves in spite of your thinking that continuing to talk about this issues and complain about problem with the game is bad thing, it’s actually a positive thing for the game. It also proves the game needs some work and ArenaNet is listening trying to rationalize when appropriate to take action. Those who choose not to speak their minds have no voice.

• The new map events are not solo-able forcing. Many events take a mid-size group to complete and often times no players are around for those events. There are a lot of people who play with friends often and have rushed though the content together and they are wondering what all the complaining is about, essentially clueless and unempathtic to those who play the game differently than they do.

• The Mastery system requires players to repeat events to gain XP to level them. As designed it is the first time in GW2 grind has been a requirement of progression. The game was launched with an anti-grind, casual friendly manifesto which this design is counter to. This is why the complaints are valid. If you’ve come recently to GW2 from [name any other MMO here] then you may not get why people are so upset. It’s because we’ve held GW2 to a higher standard than your normal grind everything MMOs. Sadly no it’s just another one of them. If you disagree about the Mastery’s being grind, then you need research what grind is, they absolutely are country to one of the tenants GW2 who created to counter.

• The mega-server balancing algorithm needs to be tweaked to take into account players coming for hero points and the position of they groups on the map. The server population is holding together in small packet to take on events and they are leaving many events void of players.

The solution isn’t to demand that everyone play like you do or stop complaining. Don’t be so narrow minded. GW2 has been home to many casual players and those players are struggling to understand the new PvE content was not created for us.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

gee.9263:

…The expasion is fun and brilliant at the same time, its just a different way of leveling, if the people who are moaning on here, actually spent more time playing instead of qqing, you might suprise yourselves and realise that you are missing out on a great game.

If you want to grind In a different way to gain more levels which then make the work of the past few years useless then I suggest you play something else, where your loyalty to your character only goes as far as the next expansion.

As grandma use to say, “the squeaky wheel gets the grease”.
A few facts about the expansion which explains most of the complaining

• A character going into HoT without map competition will not be able to unlock enough the Elite Specialization trait line to play with the Elite Specialization until near the end of HoT. Most of of us were hoping to play most of HoT with our Elite specialization not earn them an end-game reward. We don’t want full unlock immediately but a much faster pace where we could have them playable for most of the HoT content. As designed we can’t. That is worth complaining about. Unrelentingly if need be.

• People were complaining about gated content and ArenaNet listens, which proves in spite of your thinking that continuing to talk about this issues and complain about problem with the game is bad thing, it’s actually a positive thing for the game. It also proves the game needs some work and ArenaNet is listening trying to rationalize when appropriate to take action. Those who choose not to speak their minds have no voice.

• The new map events are not solo-able forcing. Many events take a mid-size group to complete and often times no players are around for those events. There are a lot of people who play with friends often and have rushed though the content together and they are wondering what all the complaining is about, essentially clueless and unempathtic to those who play the game differently than they do.

• The Mastery system requires players to repeat events to gain XP to level them. As designed it is the first time in GW2 grind has been a requirement of progression. The game was launched with an anti-grind, casual friendly manifesto which this design is counter to. This is why the complaints are valid. If you’ve come recently to GW2 from [name any other MMO here] then you may not get why people are so upset. It’s because we’ve held GW2 to a higher standard than your normal grind everything MMOs. Sadly no it’s just another one of them. If you disagree about the Mastery’s being grind, then you need research what grind is, they absolutely are country to one of the tenants GW2 who created to counter.

• The mega-server balancing algorithm needs to be tweaked to take into account players coming for hero points and the position of they groups on the map. The server population is holding together in small packet to take on events and they are leaving many events void of players.

The solution isn’t to demand that everyone play like you do or stop complaining. Don’t be so narrow minded. GW2 has been home to many casual players and those players are struggling to understand the new PvE content was not created for us.

OH MY GOD, THIS, FINALLY SOMEONE WHO HAS A SENSE.

mgee.9263:

Since the launch on Friday, all I have seen on the forums is people moaning and the expansion and the so called endless grind and to be honest ots starting to get rather annoying.

When I log into the game its self, I dont see people moaning, I see people having a good time and commenting on how fun it is and how refreshing it is to have an expansion that is different from the Base game yet still has the Gw feel. The only digference in the expansion is there are no heart quests to gain xp, they have been replaced with events, which happen all the time. To expect to be able to buy the expansion and clear all the content in a daymor two, just because you are level 80 is quite frankly ridiculous, tjis is an expansion, but a dlc for season 3, although, aome will arhue that is exactly what it is im sure. The, astry system has replaced the leveling and as you did in the core game, you have to earn the levels to get to higher places, in this case, to get to higher ground.

I admit, it does seem slightly grindy, but only if you want it to be, I have quite happily gained enough mastery in a few days to get to the third map without really thinking abut it. Plus keep in mind that the mastery is account bound, when I wanted to prgress the story and id had enough of events for the time beaing, I simply logged an alt and redid the first part of the story and would you belive it, I had enough, mastery for my updraftmand the language.

The expasion is fun and brilliant at the same time, its just a different way of leveling, if the people who are moaning on here, actually spent more time playing instead of qqing, you might suprise yourselves and realise that you are missing out on a great game.

If you want to grind In a different way to gain more levels which then make the work of the past few years useless then I suggest you play something else, where your loyalty to your character only goes as far as the next expansion.

In general forum users QQ and whine and complain and most of the players just enjoy the game. Its kind of like feedback for businesses. Most people won’t report a good employee or interaction but when they have a problem they definitely get mad and yell at people in the call centers or send a negative review online.

I’m fed up of people moaning about others moaning. It’s like they’ve never been on an internet forum before.