Guild Wars 2

I understand why the community was crying about the difficulty, to be honest none of it seemed hard, I got Itzel poison mastery when I needed it no problem, I then just last night got my 400 hero points for My dardevil and my guild got our guild hall and spent a bunch of money starting it up.

Here’s the thing, I spent a lot of time on both the Mastery and the Hero points. Once I had completed them both it actually meant something, I even had people asking me “oh how did you get that” and “oh why can you stand in the poison” “how are you already on the final mission” it was fun I felt like I achieved something that was actually difficult not just handed to me from playing the game like GW2 original which was all just a pushover.

Now anet has both removed the requirement for iztel poison mastery and stated “if you already did it give yourself a pat on the back” and I though yeah all right I suppose. Now I have gotten my 400 hero points and the next day “we are nerfing the requirement to 250” and a statement saying “for those already with 400 points you’ll just have spare for later”.

It’s feeling really unrewarding now to do content, two large walls that I and many other players scaled are now being broken down to suit the cries of those who don’t want tp put in the effort. I understand that Anet must cater for the masses but people like myself are feeling pretty sour.

There is no recognition for putting in the hard work, please anet where is our Title for achieving the original task set before us, were is the unique skin or just something to say “hey we made strong content that took time to do and you did it before we nerfed it down, let people know”

I know I’m going to get a million “elitist” remarks now.

You’ve listened to the cries of those who didn’t want to do your content, now please listen to the people you’ve wronged in the process.

Cheers guys I love the expansion, I’m just not looking forward to content getting nerfed everytime I complete it.

I understand but I don’t have time to play all day everyday, I work monday to friday 9am-5pm I played the two days on the weekend at launch and a couple hours of a night with my mates. Thinking I am a no life’er is just rude and an excuse.

If the, " two large walls ," had been something particularly challenging rather than just time consuming I might agree with you.

Tollz.4152:

I understand but I don’t have time to play all day everyday, I work monday to friday 9am-5pm I played the two days on the weekend at launch and a couple hours of a night with my mates. Thinking I am a no life’er is just rude and an excuse.

And I think it’s quite rude you call him a nolifer just because he played the game. You don’t need to play it all day every day since release to have 400 HP’s by now.

Edit: Quoted a wrong post. -__-

Just pls, get over it. Eventually people would have been at the same point as you were maybe a week ago. You were never anything special and you’ll be nothing special, at least in that regard.

(And yes, I could’ve finished daredevil in like a day, but do I feel good about it? No. Why? It’s nothing special.)

People have done the content, left or just stopped playing regulary because it was indeed a little too much and even anet themself, as they mentioned in the blog, didn’t like it either.

This may all sound a bit harsh, don’t misunderstand me, but the crying about the ones who cried, is getting actually more annoying than the ‘old’ ones, it was anets decision, now please, leave this subject alone.

The change was needed. desperately so. ANet wronged the playerbase by putting such ridiculous requirements for all characters to get their elite specialisation fully unlocked. Having the need to be superior to other people, as you yourself have outlined in your post, does make you an elitist.

all that said, a title would be a great idea, and this is coming from someone who won’t ever get all the hero points. “Mordrem basher” or something along those lines. There should be recognition for those who do complete all the hero points for now, and have the ability to obtain them removed like several other titels from previous living world segments.

I see nothing wrong with this suggestion.

Lythoc.6307:

Just pls, get over it. Eventually people would have been at the same point as you were maybe a week ago. You were never anything special and you’ll be nothing special, at least in that regard.

(And yes, I could’ve finished daredevil in like a day, but do I feel good about it? No. Why? It’s nothing special.)

People have done the content, left or just stopped playing regulary because it was indeed a little too much and even anet themself, as they mentioned in the blog, didn’t like it either.

This may all sound a bit harsh, don’t misunderstand me, but the crying about the ones who cried, is getting actually more annoying than the ‘old’ ones, it was anets decision, now please, leave this subject alone.

I just think it’s funny you say it was Anet’s decision and to leave it alone. It was their decision to make it 400 in the first place, but people cried too much. People have every right to be upset, they wasted time for nothing and all they got is 150 Hp’s with no use for them.

No need to be rude, I agree. However, a couple of hours a night every night, plus all weekend long – that’s 10 hours a week + say a good eight per saturday and sunday? So that’s 26 hours a week?

I would say that might be the average for a young person with no other obligations outside of work. It’s really not the average at all for people at most other stages of their lives.

castlemanic.3198:

The change was needed. desperately so. ANet wronged the playerbase by putting such ridiculous requirements for all characters to get their elite specialisation fully unlocked. Having the need to be superior to other people, as you yourself have outlined in your post, does make you an elitist.

all that said, a title would be a great idea, and this is coming from someone who won’t ever get all the hero points. “Mordrem basher” or something along those lines. There should be recognition for those who do complete all the hero points for now, and have the ability to obtain them removed like several other titels from previous living world segments.

I see nothing wrong with this suggestion.

Thanks for your understanding, I’m not saying I’m not in some way elitist, I just feel like anet should recognise that there are people who enjoyed the game as they intended it and show that in some way, instead of simply caving and tossing it aside with a blog post saying “you go you”.

Tollz.4152:

Thanks for your understanding, I’m not saying I’m not in some way elitist, I just feel like anet should recognise that there are people who enjoyed the game as they intended it and show that in some way, instead of simply caving and tossing it aside with a blog post saying “you go you”.

no problem. I definitely understand the need to feel rewarded for effort, as long as that reward doesn’t impede others in any significant way, and a title is definitely one of the best routes to go to reward players who got the 400 hero points before the change.

castlemanic.3198:

Tollz.4152:

Thanks for your understanding, I’m not saying I’m not in some way elitist, I just feel like anet should recognise that there are people who enjoyed the game as they intended it and show that in some way, instead of simply caving and tossing it aside with a blog post saying “you go you”.

no problem. I definitely understand the need to feel rewarded for effort, as long as that reward doesn’t impede others in any significant way, and a title is definitely one of the best routes to go to reward players who got the 400 hero points before the change.

I would never suggest something game changing or impactful, just a cosmetic that shows you achieved something. A die colour a silly mordrem helm, a title, a minipet. Just an acknowledgement.

Divine Flavor.2016:

No need to be rude, I agree. However, a couple of hours a night every night, plus all weekend long – that’s 10 hours a week + say a good eight per saturday and sunday? So that’s 26 hours a week?

I would say that might be the average for a young person with no other obligations outside of work. It’s really not the average at all for people at most other stages of their lives.

It does not take that long.

While you say game shouldn’t adjust to people you describe, it also shouldn’t adjust to people who have no time to play yet want to have everything in the game.

Anet says that there is possibility for new elite specs in the future, so you’re ahead of the game. Before the expansion came out, there were 200+ hero points that were unusable from map completion, did you complain about those?

Laraley.7695:

Divine Flavor.2016:

No need to be rude, I agree. However, a couple of hours a night every night, plus all weekend long – that’s 10 hours a week + say a good eight per saturday and sunday? So that’s 26 hours a week?

I would say that might be the average for a young person with no other obligations outside of work. It’s really not the average at all for people at most other stages of their lives.

It does not take that long.

While you say game shouldn’t adjust to people you describe, it also shouldn’t adjust to people who have no time to play yet want to have everything in the game.

Gating elite specializations behind a hero point wall by itself is a bad idea because you’re gating a core class mechanic of HOT such that by the time someone unlocks the specialization they are already mostly through the HOT pve story content already. It’s counter productive and not fun. Not to mention it’s extremely punishing to people with a lot of alts. It’s a poor way to add progression to the game.

I liked the 400 points, but I don’t mind the change. I’d rather have less people kittening in map chat since seem to be in the minority on this subject.

What 2 large walls? They lowered the hero point requirement to fully spec your elite line. That’s it. Masteries are the same you still need the unlocks to gather all the hps. Whats this other wall?

SkippyWest.8264:

Anet says that there is possibility for new elite specs in the future, so you’re ahead of the game. Before the expansion came out, there were 200+ hero points that were unusable from map completion, did you complain about those?

Before the “Hero point” change those extra points where skill points that I could use for many things, the change to Hero points came after I had gotten them all and used them, I was not any worse of because it was a good change they gave me back the points even though I had used them as consumables.

In this instance I am given back 200 points I don’t need and cannot use and most likely wouldn’t have bothered to get in the first place and now for what? An elite specialisation when….. between now and never? This is shortsighted, did you play before hero points were introduced? It is completely different. I didn’t get all the base tyria points on alts because I had no use for them after they changed from skill points.

Samhayn.2385:

What 2 large walls? They lowered the hero point requirement to fully spec your elite line. That’s it. Masteries are the same you still need the unlocks to gather all the hps. Whats this other wall?

Itzel poison mastery 4 was required for chapter 14 of the personal story and to get the 400 hero points, it was something like 5-6 million exp total. So yes two walls.

Divine Flavor.2016:

No need to be rude, I agree. However, a couple of hours a night every night, plus all weekend long – that’s 10 hours a week + say a good eight per saturday and sunday? So that’s 26 hours a week?

I would say that might be the average for a young person with no other obligations outside of work. It’s really not the average at all for people at most other stages of their lives.

Not necessarily, I did that when I was married and had children, and no, my ex didn’t get or annoyed for several reasons. I did the stuff that needed to be done when it needed to be done, I spend time with the family when there was time, but everyone in our household was/is very independent. Playing GW2 is a great way to forget about the real world, which is just freaking annoying. All the BS news about so-called refugees from Syria, hurricanes, flooding, shooting, etc., etc.,…I don’t care…I have almost no empathy for anyone. I work, I eat, I play and I sleep…and I’m quite happy with that life style.

I might play a lot of hours, but I still consider myself a casual player as I do things on my own time, I don’t rush through anything…I play the game casually. This change may have been made for the majority, but it was part of the progression that was being introduced, if people weren’t expecting it, that is their own fault. I knew it was going to take a lot of HP to unlock the Elite, even with the 200 I have on most of my characters I expected to need quite a bit more…and now, what’s the point in doing the HP challenges if the Elite is unlocked, map completion in HoT, not needed, HP not needed now until next Elite released, then I can worry about at that time.

Locking the story behind needing a particular level of a certain Mastery, brilliant, now there is no cohesion to the story. You can all of the sudden traverse the poison areas without have unlocked the necessary Mastery that would allow you to safely go through that territory. Players need to think before they start crying, and that is what I considered it. If you wanted to complete the expansion in a weekend, then expect to hunker down and play it for 48 hours, otherwise look forward to having several weeks(if not months) of fun, enjoyable challenging content…neither of which happened.

I personally think for the next game they should just model the entire planet of Tyria as Open World and do live updates, changing it as events unfold. Would players get angry if they missed particular events and an area completely changed, most likely, but that’s as close as you’ll come to a living world as you can get.

It just seems like getting upset about the changes because a person has gotten their spec is very, very petty.

Laraley.7695:

Lythoc.6307:

Just pls, get over it. Eventually people would have been at the same point as you were maybe a week ago. You were never anything special and you’ll be nothing special, at least in that regard.

(And yes, I could’ve finished daredevil in like a day, but do I feel good about it? No. Why? It’s nothing special.)

People have done the content, left or just stopped playing regulary because it was indeed a little too much and even anet themself, as they mentioned in the blog, didn’t like it either.

This may all sound a bit harsh, don’t misunderstand me, but the crying about the ones who cried, is getting actually more annoying than the ‘old’ ones, it was anets decision, now please, leave this subject alone.

I just think it’s funny you say it was Anet’s decision and to leave it alone. It was their decision to make it 400 in the first place, but people cried too much. People have every right to be upset, they wasted time for nothing and all they got is 150 Hp’s with no use for them.

People had 214 wasted hero points before HOT by that logic.

Celtic Lady.3729:

It just seems like getting upset about the changes because a person has gotten their spec is very, very petty.

When all a person has is superiority in a video game they react poorly when that’s taken away from them.

Laraley.7695:

Lythoc.6307:

Just pls, get over it. Eventually people would have been at the same point as you were maybe a week ago. You were never anything special and you’ll be nothing special, at least in that regard.

(And yes, I could’ve finished daredevil in like a day, but do I feel good about it? No. Why? It’s nothing special.)

People have done the content, left or just stopped playing regulary because it was indeed a little too much and even anet themself, as they mentioned in the blog, didn’t like it either.

This may all sound a bit harsh, don’t misunderstand me, but the crying about the ones who cried, is getting actually more annoying than the ‘old’ ones, it was anets decision, now please, leave this subject alone.

I just think it’s funny you say it was Anet’s decision and to leave it alone. It was their decision to make it 400 in the first place, but people cried too much. People have every right to be upset, they wasted time for nothing and all they got is 150 Hp’s with no use for them.

Exactly this.
If you had actual;ly invested time to get hero points prior to HoT you would be able to get your elite quite easily.

MrH.2591:

Celtic Lady.3729:

It just seems like getting upset about the changes because a person has gotten their spec is very, very petty.

When all a person has is superiority in a video game they react poorly when that’s taken away from them.

I understand you do not agree with myself or others in my position but it is not about superiority. It is not “I completed it super fast” or “I got there why can’t you” it is that Anet set out a goal in their game that indeed did take a lot of time and a fair bit of effort. When that time and effort is then made null by simply making it easier or faster than mine and anyone else’s time was spent on something that others are now getting for less. I don’t want to feel superior I am actually just upset, the same way that yourself or anyone else that is embracing this change was upset that it took that long in the first place.

Please be constructive and actually contribute to the topic not just getting on your high horse to call people out.

Tollz.4152:

I understand but I don’t have time to play all day everyday, I work monday to friday 9am-5pm

Nope.

In reality…

Tollz.4152:

There is no recognition for putting in the hard work

…You work more than just monday to friday 9am-5pm. And that’s because you made the mistake of working in a game as opposed to playing a game. The fact you feel you are not recognised enough for the effort you did is actually very much deserved – you didn’t do anything that deserves recognition, you basically wasted time you could have spent having fun.

This is one of the main reasons why so many MMORPGs are such bad games. The fact some people are willing to waste their time with content not because they are having fun, but because they have an illusion that it will give them some kind of important reward even while they consider doing it “work”, is the reason why grind is so widespread now. Sorry to say, but nothing you grind for is going to give you prestige or the admiration of others. Nothing you grind for is going to actually have a positive impact in your life. The best you can get is not realizing how much time you have wasted doing something you didn’t even enjoy while you could have been having fun instead.

Tollz.4152:

MrH.2591:

Celtic Lady.3729:

It just seems like getting upset about the changes because a person has gotten their spec is very, very petty.

When all a person has is superiority in a video game they react poorly when that’s taken away from them.

I understand you do not agree with myself or others in my position but it is not about superiority. It is not “I completed it super fast” or “I got there why can’t you” it is that Anet set out a goal in their game that indeed did take a lot of time and a fair bit of effort. When that time and effort is then made null by simply making it easier or faster than mine and anyone else’s time was spent on something that others are now getting for less. I don’t want to feel superior I am actually just upset, the same way that yourself or anyone else that is embracing this change was upset that it took that long in the first place.

Please be constructive and actually contribute to the topic not just getting on your high horse to call people out.

some people saw the 400 hero point requirement and just came straight here to complain, i think, while others of us actually went out to get them.

Now that the people complaining have gotten their way, they’re criticizing us for doing exactly what they’ve been doing up til now – objecting to a state of affairs we find not to our liking.
kinda makes them poor sports.

morrolan.9608:

Laraley.7695:

Lythoc.6307:

Just pls, get over it. Eventually people would have been at the same point as you were maybe a week ago. You were never anything special and you’ll be nothing special, at least in that regard.

(And yes, I could’ve finished daredevil in like a day, but do I feel good about it? No. Why? It’s nothing special.)

People have done the content, left or just stopped playing regulary because it was indeed a little too much and even anet themself, as they mentioned in the blog, didn’t like it either.

This may all sound a bit harsh, don’t misunderstand me, but the crying about the ones who cried, is getting actually more annoying than the ‘old’ ones, it was anets decision, now please, leave this subject alone.

I just think it’s funny you say it was Anet’s decision and to leave it alone. It was their decision to make it 400 in the first place, but people cried too much. People have every right to be upset, they wasted time for nothing and all they got is 150 Hp’s with no use for them.

People had 214 wasted hero points before HOT by that logic.

No, since it takes 250 to unlock it.

All I’m saying is that Anet should have given something to those people who unlocked it with 400. I’m sure something small like a special title would clam everything down. If their only ’’reward’’ is the fact they can use the 150 points in a few years, I don’t wonder people are upset.

Test.8734:

Tollz.4152:

I understand but I don’t have time to play all day everyday, I work monday to friday 9am-5pm

Nope.

In reality…

Tollz.4152:

There is no recognition for putting in the hard work

…You work more than just monday to friday 9am-5pm. And that’s because you made the mistake of working in a game as opposed to playing a game. The fact you feel you are not recognised enough for the effort you did is actually very much deserved – you didn’t do anything that deserves recognition, you basically wasted time you could have spent having fun.

This is one of the main reasons why so many MMORPGs are such bad games. The fact some people are willing to waste their time with content not because they are having fun, but because they have an illusion that it will give them some kind of important reward even while they consider doing it “work”, is the reason why grind is so widespread now. Sorry to say, but nothing you grind for is going to give you prestige or the admiration of others. Nothing you grind for is going to actually have a positive impact in your life. The best you can get is not realizing how much time you have wasted doing something you didn’t even enjoy while you could have been having fun instead.

This is sad, I enjoy my time and you are stating that I am wasting my time on something I like doing. It’s not work, it is work to you because you choose to make it feel like work, you appear to want things handed to you in a system that is about unlocking aspects of a character through progression.

For you to come in and claim that my time is wasted because I enjoy something is extremely rude. I was having fun there is no “instead”

I do not want prestige or admiration from anyone for a game that is ridiculous, I want to enjoy myself in said game, which I was, which I am still. I have just been told that everyone else gets to do it easier and all that time I spent was actually taken from me in a sense.

But sure think of it as a job, keeping with your “work” analogy, if hired you and I said to you that you had to come to work and work 35 hours a week and got 40k a year and you accepted. Then then someone with your exact same skillset and the same age was hired to do the same job for the same pay but only had to work 20 hours a week. Would you still feel that this was fair? Would you think that your time was worth as much? Would you not want reimbursement? A raise? Extra holidays? Something? You would and you know it.

Laraley.7695:

Divine Flavor.2016:

No need to be rude, I agree. However, a couple of hours a night every night, plus all weekend long – that’s 10 hours a week + say a good eight per saturday and sunday? So that’s 26 hours a week?

I would say that might be the average for a young person with no other obligations outside of work. It’s really not the average at all for people at most other stages of their lives.

It does not take that long.

While you say game shouldn’t adjust to people you describe, it also shouldn’t adjust to people who have no time to play yet want to have everything in the game.

No, I would say grinding out 400HP would take a fairly long time, especially if you have multiple alts, and especially if you missed most of the Zerg-Train on opening weekend.

On Saturday, you could ride along with the mob, jump into any HP, and chances are that there would already be people there fighting the champ, or ready to start. By Sunday evening, that train had already left the first two zones. The problem is fairly binary – you either have the people to grind the masteries and do the champs with you, and it’s largely a breeze, or you don’t, in which case you have nothing.

This morning I logged in to play a few HPs and I probably spent 10-15 minutes just gathering a few guys to do the champ. No worries – but 40 times of herding cats, be it guildies or pugs? That’s not fun, that’s just drudgery.

‘It does not take that long’ is your judgement, based on your commitments and your availability – it’s not a statement of truth.

These are all straw-man arguments. Nobody said the game should adjust to one individual or group. What I personally said was that the 400 points was a hard left, an obvious grind, and ran counter to nine years of Guild Wars 1 & 2, and Arena Net’s manifesto. It also was very much NOT what was presented before or after pre-purchase. A lot of people said the same thing.

I play 10-15 hours a week, not as much as some, but certainly a dedicated amount and about as much as anyone spends on a hobby, on average. I most certainly don’t have ‘no time to play’. I most certainly never asked for, nor do I, ‘want everything.’

Celtic Lady.3729:

It just seems like getting upset about the changes because a person has gotten their spec is very, very petty.

Actually, I understand why he’s upset.

He got his experience points and mastery points for the masteries needed to reach and unlock the hero challenges.

He defeated, based on his posting, 40 hero challenges. All of them.

And his reward for that was getting a fully unlocked elite spec.

And pretty soon afterward, ANet goes and reduces it down.

Very few people wouldn’t have an initial reaction of: so what took me X time will now take someone Y time less? When I could have been doing something I enjoy more in that time difference instead of working toward getting my elite spec?

And just so we’re clear, I’m in favor of the change. The 400 points wasn’t really fair to players with even just one character per class, and even less fair for players who primarily only play WvW.

Test.8734:

Tollz.4152:

I understand but I don’t have time to play all day everyday, I work monday to friday 9am-5pm

Nope.

In reality…

Tollz.4152:

There is no recognition for putting in the hard work

…You work more than just monday to friday 9am-5pm. And that’s because you made the mistake of working in a game as opposed to playing a game. The fact you feel you are not recognised enough for the effort you did is actually very much deserved – you didn’t do anything that deserves recognition, you basically wasted time you could have spent having fun.

This is one of the main reasons why so many MMORPGs are such bad games. The fact some people are willing to waste their time with content not because they are having fun, but because they have an illusion that it will give them some kind of important reward even while they consider doing it “work”, is the reason why grind is so widespread now. Sorry to say, but nothing you grind for is going to give you prestige or the admiration of others. Nothing you grind for is going to actually have a positive impact in your life. The best you can get is not realizing how much time you have wasted doing something you didn’t even enjoy while you could have been having fun instead.

Uh…

I don’t know how you ‘play’ the game, but i like having certain objectives set for me to ‘work’ towards (thank you english language). That’s what i call ‘playing’ the game.

As it was, i was rewarded for exploration, participating in events, fooling around with the new mechanics, killing enemies, and yes, playing.

Now… a large chunk of that reward has been sliced away. Woohoo, i get 10 hero points for doing this complex jumping puzzle involving careful gliding, mushrooms, and outplaying more complex enemies! …oh, i no longer have a use for those hero points. well then…

I am a special snowflake

Feel free to print that out and make a badge if recognition is what you need.

Divine Flavor.2016:

Laraley.7695:

Divine Flavor.2016:

No need to be rude, I agree. However, a couple of hours a night every night, plus all weekend long – that’s 10 hours a week + say a good eight per saturday and sunday? So that’s 26 hours a week?

I would say that might be the average for a young person with no other obligations outside of work. It’s really not the average at all for people at most other stages of their lives.

It does not take that long.

While you say game shouldn’t adjust to people you describe, it also shouldn’t adjust to people who have no time to play yet want to have everything in the game.

No, I would say grinding out 400HP would take a fairly long time, especially if you have multiple alts, and especially if you missed most of the Zerg-Train on opening weekend.

On Saturday, you could ride along with the mob, jump into any HP, and chances are that there would already be people there fighting the champ, or ready to start. By Sunday evening, that train had already left the first two zones. The problem is fairly binary – you either have the people to grind the masteries and do the champs with you, and it’s largely a breeze, or you don’t, in which case you have nothing.

This morning I logged in to play a few HPs and I probably spent 10-15 minutes just gathering a few guys to do the champ. No worries – but 40 times of herding cats, be it guildies or pugs? That’s not fun, that’s just drudgery.

‘It does not take that long’ is your judgement, based on your commitments and your availability – it’s not a statement of truth.

These are all straw-man arguments. Nobody said the game should adjust to one individual or group. What I personally said was that the 400 points was a hard left, an obvious grind, and ran counter to nine years of Guild Wars 1 & 2, and Arena Net’s manifesto. It also was very much NOT what was presented before or after pre-purchase. A lot of people said the same thing.

I play 10-15 hours a week, not as much as some, but certainly a dedicated amount and about as much as anyone spends on a hobby, on average. I most certainly don’t have ‘no time to play’. I most certainly never asked for, nor do I, ‘want everything.’

Most of them are soloable/duoable. You only need a group for a few of them. There are already guides, it seriously take one afternoon max.

If you’re talking about alts, then you’re not getting 400 HP’s, you’re getting a different amount and they could have handled the alts differently.

Divine Flavor.2016:

Laraley.7695:

Divine Flavor.2016:

No need to be rude, I agree. However, a couple of hours a night every night, plus all weekend long – that’s 10 hours a week + say a good eight per saturday and sunday? So that’s 26 hours a week?

I would say that might be the average for a young person with no other obligations outside of work. It’s really not the average at all for people at most other stages of their lives.

It does not take that long.

While you say game shouldn’t adjust to people you describe, it also shouldn’t adjust to people who have no time to play yet want to have everything in the game.

No, I would say grinding out 400HP would take a fairly long time, especially if you have multiple alts, and especially if you missed most of the Zerg-Train on opening weekend.

On Saturday, you could ride along with the mob, jump into any HP, and chances are that there would already be people there fighting the champ, or ready to start. By Sunday evening, that train had already left the first two zones. The problem is fairly binary – you either have the people to grind the masteries and do the champs with you, and it’s largely a breeze, or you don’t, in which case you have nothing.

This morning I logged in to play a few HPs and I probably spent 10-15 minutes just gathering a few guys to do the champ. No worries – but 40 times of herding cats, be it guildies or pugs? That’s not fun, that’s just drudgery.

‘It does not take that long’ is your judgement, based on your commitments and your availability – it’s not a statement of truth.

These are all straw-man arguments. Nobody said the game should adjust to one individual or group. What I personally said was that the 400 points was a hard left, an obvious grind, and ran counter to nine years of Guild Wars 1 & 2, and Arena Net’s manifesto. It also was very much NOT what was presented before or after pre-purchase. A lot of people said the same thing.

I play 10-15 hours a week, not as much as some, but certainly a dedicated amount and about as much as anyone spends on a hobby, on average. I most certainly don’t have ‘no time to play’. I most certainly never asked for, nor do I, ‘want everything.’

I don’t think laraley meant it in this way, I understand your stance and I largely agree, if the system was set out as a lower cap from the beginning things might have been in a better place and also people that cannot get groups together may have a harder time, that said you can solo these champion mobs it just takes some effort.

I personally have a commander tag and was able to gather people en masse which I know is different but I helped as many as I could in the process of getting my own because I could rally people and time and time again I also saw the community say “hey guys lets group up on me and grab this point” or “im here at this really hard point anyone wanna jump in my party and get it?” even in the barren maps sunday evening when I was returning with the masteries to get the points I couldn’t and Anet just announced they are actually fixing an issue that caused the players to be scattered across different instances so that should also be addressed soon.

The problem we now have is that a portion of the player base put a lot more effort into doing stuff and then that time was essentially taken away because it was felt that the cap was too high.

Tollz.4152:

MrH.2591:

Celtic Lady.3729:

It just seems like getting upset about the changes because a person has gotten their spec is very, very petty.

When all a person has is superiority in a video game they react poorly when that’s taken away from them.

I understand you do not agree with myself or others in my position but it is not about superiority. It is not “I completed it super fast” or “I got there why can’t you” it is that Anet set out a goal in their game that indeed did take a lot of time and a fair bit of effort. When that time and effort is then made null by simply making it easier or faster than mine and anyone else’s time was spent on something that others are now getting for less. I don’t want to feel superior I am actually just upset, the same way that yourself or anyone else that is embracing this change was upset that it took that long in the first place.

Please be constructive and actually contribute to the topic not just getting on your high horse to call people out.

I can understand that, but I mean that’s always been the case with MMOs, with WoW in particular. Every expansion, every reworking of the trees… Can someone give me back all the hours I put into GW1? I marched a toon for every class through all four expansions, for what, exactly?

All glory’s fleeting. I have ‘Chosen’ as a title, a bunch of legacy skins, and that’s pretty much it. In the end I realized it’s a game, it’s not a degree from Harvard. If i wanted to put time into something that will last, then I shouldn’t put it into a game. That’s personally my experience.

Kittens, if you want to talk about taking stuff away, how about all the free levels that are being thrown about? My first five or 6 80s were definitely all done by hand. The last two, were probably half done just sitting in Divinity’s Reach, eating up Scrolls and Tomes. The last one after the big traits reworking. Pretty easy to level now, when you don’t have to put points into the power or precision lines.

Narrrz.7532:

I don’t know how you ‘play’ the game, but i like having certain objectives set for me to ‘work’ towards (thank you english language). That’s what i call ‘playing’ the game.

Problem with that in regard to abilities as has been stated many times and by Colin that you reach the the objective at the end and can’t play the content with the cool new spec.

morrolan.9608:

Narrrz.7532:

I don’t know how you ‘play’ the game, but i like having certain objectives set for me to ‘work’ towards (thank you english language). That’s what i call ‘playing’ the game.

Problem with that in regard to abilities as has been stated many times and by Colin that you reach the the objective at the end and can’t play the content with the cool new spec.

That’s why all the content is repeatable. You do the exciting exploration stuff while it’s new, get your elite spec as a reward, and then can play about on the maps’ repeatable content with your fancy new spec.

What everyone seemed to want was their fancy spec to do the exploration stuff (with no real reason to bother with it after you’ve unlocked your spec) so they can then complain there’s no content when they’re done.

watch. next week the complaints will start.

Tollz.4152:

Divine Flavor.2016:

Laraley.7695:

Divine Flavor.2016:

No need to be rude, I agree. However, a couple of hours a night every night, plus all weekend long – that’s 10 hours a week + say a good eight per saturday and sunday? So that’s 26 hours a week?

I would say that might be the average for a young person with no other obligations outside of work. It’s really not the average at all for people at most other stages of their lives.

It does not take that long.

While you say game shouldn’t adjust to people you describe, it also shouldn’t adjust to people who have no time to play yet want to have everything in the game.

No, I would say grinding out 400HP would take a fairly long time, especially if you have multiple alts, and especially if you missed most of the Zerg-Train on opening weekend.

On Saturday, you could ride along with the mob, jump into any HP, and chances are that there would already be people there fighting the champ, or ready to start. By Sunday evening, that train had already left the first two zones. The problem is fairly binary – you either have the people to grind the masteries and do the champs with you, and it’s largely a breeze, or you don’t, in which case you have nothing.

This morning I logged in to play a few HPs and I probably spent 10-15 minutes just gathering a few guys to do the champ. No worries – but 40 times of herding cats, be it guildies or pugs? That’s not fun, that’s just drudgery.

‘It does not take that long’ is your judgement, based on your commitments and your availability – it’s not a statement of truth.

These are all straw-man arguments. Nobody said the game should adjust to one individual or group. What I personally said was that the 400 points was a hard left, an obvious grind, and ran counter to nine years of Guild Wars 1 & 2, and Arena Net’s manifesto. It also was very much NOT what was presented before or after pre-purchase. A lot of people said the same thing.

I play 10-15 hours a week, not as much as some, but certainly a dedicated amount and about as much as anyone spends on a hobby, on average. I most certainly don’t have ‘no time to play’. I most certainly never asked for, nor do I, ‘want everything.’

I don’t think laraley meant it in this way, I understand your stance and I largely agree, if the system was set out as a lower cap from the beginning things might have been in a better place and also people that cannot get groups together may have a harder time, that said you can solo these champion mobs it just takes some effort.

I personally have a commander tag and was able to gather people en masse which I know is different but I helped as many as I could in the process of getting my own because I could rally people and time and time again I also saw the community say “hey guys lets group up on me and grab this point” or “im here at this really hard point anyone wanna jump in my party and get it?” even in the barren maps sunday evening when I was returning with the masteries to get the points I couldn’t and Anet just announced they are actually fixing an issue that caused the players to be scattered across different instances so that should also be addressed soon.

The problem we now have is that a portion of the player base put a lot more effort into doing stuff and then that time was essentially taken away because it was felt that the cap was too high.

Thanks for taking the time to be write something so thoughtful. I don’t want to sound dismissive, but I have to say though, it was just one weekend, is that really a whole of time ‘wasted’? They got to be King of the Mountain for a few days, they had fun, and if they didn’t, they should have stopped. It’s opening weekend, we’re all experienced with MMOs, we all know things can and will change.

Tollz.4152:

It’s not work, it is work to you because you choose to make it feel like work

Uhuh:

Tollz.4152:

There is no recognition for putting in the hard work

Ergo… It’s not work, it is work to you because you choose to make it feel like work. And since it’s not work, there is no need for it to be recognised.

Tollz.4152:

I was having fun there is no “instead”

So if you were having fun, what need is there for you to receive any kind of reward as recognition? Fun was your reward.

Unless, of course, you think what you were doing was just using “time and effort” without having fun. Which, incidentally, would be quite like a (bad) work.

Narrrz.7532:

As it was, i was rewarded for exploration, participating in events, fooling around with the new mechanics, killing enemies, and yes, playing.

If you actually enjoyed doing those things, and had fun doing them, fun would be your reward and you would feel no need to receive anything more.

If you actually don’t enjoy doing those things and were doing something you don’t enjoy just for the reward you would get at the end, sorry, you were grinding as if GW2 were a (bad) job. You don’t really deserve a reward for that.

This is like someone going to see a movie and demanding to be paid for it. Watching the movie and enjoying it is its own reward. What you are doing is like going to see a movie you already knew you wouldn’t enjoy, just because you would receive a rotten apple after watching it – but now you have been told it’s only half a rotten apple. It was a bad idea originally, and it’s still a bad idea now.

Narrrz.7532:

What everyone seemed to want was their fancy spec to do the exploration stuff (with no real reason to bother with it after you’ve unlocked your spec) so they can then complain there’s no content when they’re done.

There’s next to no content.

See, the thing is – you are assuming that it’s ok to hide the fact there is almost no content in HoT behind a smoke screen of grind. Expecting the game to last longer than its small amount of content would allow it to just because people would be busy grinding the specialization points is, almost by definition, trying to fool players by artifically increasing the game’s longevity.

But players won’t be so easily fooled. Or most of us won’t, at least.

(And, for the records, the line “with no reasl reason to bother with it after you’ve unlocked your spec” is exactly like my example above, of wanting to be rewarded for having fun… Or wasting your time grinding through content you don’t have fun with. Both of which don’t deserve a reward, actually.)

Narrrz.7532:

morrolan.9608:

Narrrz.7532:

I don’t know how you ‘play’ the game, but i like having certain objectives set for me to ‘work’ towards (thank you english language). That’s what i call ‘playing’ the game.

Problem with that in regard to abilities as has been stated many times and by Colin that you reach the the objective at the end and can’t play the content with the cool new spec.

That’s why all the content is repeatable. You do the exciting exploration stuff while it’s new, get your elite spec as a reward, and then can play about on the maps’ repeatable content with your fancy new spec.

What everyone seemed to want was their fancy spec to do the exploration stuff (with no real reason to bother with it after you’ve unlocked your spec) so they can then complain there’s no content when they’re done.

watch. next week the complaints will start.

So losing the choice on which new content to explore first was the right decision?

With it being 400 hero points, players had to do explore the new maps first, masteries second, and then elite specs last.

When maybe some of them wanted to do elite specs first.

And don’t kid yourself, players want to play with fully unlocked elite specs when they say they want to play with elite specs before anyone claims that that was possible before the change.

Narrrz.7532:

morrolan.9608:

Narrrz.7532:

I don’t know how you ‘play’ the game, but i like having certain objectives set for me to ‘work’ towards (thank you english language). That’s what i call ‘playing’ the game.

Problem with that in regard to abilities as has been stated many times and by Colin that you reach the the objective at the end and can’t play the content with the cool new spec.

That’s why all the content is repeatable. You do the exciting exploration stuff while it’s new, get your elite spec as a reward, and then can play about on the maps’ repeatable content with your fancy new spec.
.

But if you’re driven by objectives hasn’t it been achieved?

Last night at 11:45 (GMT+8 here), I just got my last HP needed and told my guildmate “wow finally completed my reaper line”. When I wake up, humm, 250 points now.

I have been running around in the Jungle, like looking for all the updraft or jumping in the pit then choked by poison gas in the pass few days. Though I’m a bit mad for the challenges, it is full of fun. But hey, why do I need to do that, I mean, if upcoming change is expected? I can go back to SW to farm my mastery, join some more FotM or new map events or else, but not going for the HP for all my time. Oh I forgot to mention, I had been taking it as a real challenge, as I tried to look for and solo most of the HP (condition mm Necro is pretty nice), other than the last 60 HPs needed as I am exhausted and I am failed to look for the rest.

The 250 change is good, at least a herald is much more possible for people like me that don’t have much time to play. Still, It would be much better if, at least the change is not coming out all in a sudden, like if you announce it and give us a few days to prepare our mind for the change (Ya I am salty, but if people have already been crying that 400 HP is harsh for them, why don’t let them cry for just a few days more? An upcoming change as a promise should be enough to ease part of the rage) . We are minority, but still, please consider our feeling.

Test.8734:

There’s next to no content.

If you genuinely think that, then i think this might not be the game for you.
There is more content now than there has ever been before. It’s not like any of the old content has gone away, and the new content takes the features of all the old content and extends them, expands upon them.
And unlike the expansions of basically every other game of this type, it does so without making the old content irrelevant.

Test.8734:

If you actually enjoyed doing those things, and had fun doing them, fun would be your reward and you would feel no need to receive anything more.

That’s a facetious argument. You can enjoy the journey and still desire to reach the destination. The reward is what makes the content repeatable.

Test.8734:

If you actually don’t enjoy doing those things and were doing something you don’t enjoy just for the reward you would get at the end, sorry, you were grinding as if GW2 were a (bad) job. You don’t really deserve a reward for that.

I hope you realise that that is your opinion. As it happened, i was enjoying everything i did (hence my choice to play this game) but having a satisfying reward increases the sense of achievement. I recognise that perhaps the 400 hero point grind was excessive, but how many of you had even fully explored all the maps before you started posting about it being too much?
I still haven’t fully explored everything, and definitely haven’t even begun to complete in everything there is to do and i had my Rev’s elite spec more than 75% unlocked.

I understand the desire to have everything for a reasonable amount but the amount of effort you put into obtaining something correlates highly with the satisfaction you derive from obtaining that thing.
Take this trend to its logical extreme. Imagine that all the content of this expansion were reduced to be obtainable immediately, or after the most minimal participation. You do a single hero challenge and can fully unlock your elite spec. Unlock your elite spec and immediately have the Ascended item associated with it. Open a single crate of airship salvage and you can afford to buy everything obtainable with the currency.
Do you feel any incentive to do anything anymore? I sure wouldn’t.

Seera.5916:

And don’t kid yourself, players want to play with fully unlocked elite specs when they say they want to play with elite specs before anyone claims that that was possible before the change.

I contest that the people who actually wanted to play with their elite specs went out and unlocked or began unlocking hero points for them as soon as they knew they wanted it. Even before i knew it was going to cost 400 hero points i started (and finished) a fourth world completion on my necromancer so that i’d have access to it as soon as physically feasible.
People who actually want things go out and do what it takes to get them. people who merely feel they should have something, or perhaps feel they are entitled to that thing, they are the people who have been complaining.

One can say what they will about the “lazy” folks that had these concerns, but at least they derive their fun from inclusion and not exclusion.

Tollz.4152:

I understand why the community was crying about the difficulty

The biggest issue for people like me was: I wanted to play the new content, the new story, the new maps. but i wanted to do that with the new possibilities of my class, testing out different builds while progressing. That actually lead to me ignoring most of the new content (events, dialogues with NPCs) and getting the story spoiled by some random NPCs while just searching for Hero Point challenges to finally enjoying the game. In addition, some grinding was required to get enough experience for the masteries i needed to get the Hero Points.

That was dull and boring and not difficult at all. Just time consuming.
Yes, some Hero Point challenges are difficult – but you just have to wait until more players arrived.

Now i can finally explore the new world, the new NPCs, the Lore, look for details and take the time i need without having the feeling that my character is “incomplete” in some way… in other words, i can finally enjoy the game.

Malchir.4798:

Tollz.4152:

I understand why the community was crying about the difficulty

The biggest issue for people like me was: I wanted to play the new content, the new story, the new maps. but i wanted to do that with the new possibilities of my class, testing out different builds while progressing. That actually lead to me ignoring most of the new content (events, dialogues with NPCs) and getting the story spoiled by some random NPCs while just searching for Hero Point challenges to finally enjoying the game. In addition, some grinding was required to get enough experience for the masteries i needed to get the Hero Points.

That was dull and boring and not difficult at all. Just time consuming.
Yes, some Hero Point challenges are difficult – but you just have to wait until more players arrived.

Now i can finally explore the new world, the new NPCs, the Lore, look for details and take the time i need without having the feeling that my character is “incomplete” in some way… in other words, i can finally enjoy the game.

I get where you are coming from, don’t get me wrong, I would have loved to my spec sooner, but in saying that I had a lot of time between hero challenges to use and understand each individual skill or trait I unlocked which was a much better experience than just unlocking things like crazy as you do in the base game.

Being incomplete was part of the charm, it was the sense of going through the jungle and learning to “specialise” in and “elite” tree, by the time I finished the jungle my character had evolved.

I’m not saying your irritation isn’t legitimate, but you don’t need a title to brag. You did it before most people and not only is that something no one can take away from you, but it’s something you can brag about.

Let me pose an analogous scenario to you that happens in raiding games all the time: Top guilds compete to see who can kill the bosses first. Pretty soon, the top guilds get the bosses killed and get them on farm status (meaning they can kill the bosses without fail each weekly reset).

Fast-forward to a few months later. The top guilds have been farming the bosses for a long time and a few 2nd tier guilds are getting some kills, but most raiding guilds are struggling a lot with progressing. They are getting killed over and over by tight requirements and unforgiving mechanics. So to ensure that the bulk of the raiding population (the lower tier guilds) don’t give up on the game, they nerf some of the harder bosses. Inevitably some of the people in top guilds complain about this, but there is no special title for it.

The people in the top guilds already got their reward, in the form of 1) getting all the rewards before everybody else and 2) being able to brag about their accomplishments. In fact, they can now say “I killed X boss pre-nerf.”

This is usually how it works in MMOs, that for the first ones there, the thing that separates them from the people who came later is the feeling of knowing that they got to the finish line first. Like a race.

If you got this stuff before the nerfs, you already placed first. You won the race. Anet could give you a badge to say that you won the race, but I have to ask: Are you sure the medal is what you did it for, or was it for the feeling of beating the competition?

I know I’m going to get a million “elitist” remarks now.

Yup.

Labjax.2465:

I’m not saying your irritation isn’t legitimate, but you don’t need a title to brag. You did it before most people and not only is that something no one can take away from you, but it’s something you can brag about.

Let me pose an analogous scenario to you that happens in raiding games all the time: Top guilds compete to see who can kill the bosses first. Pretty soon, the top guilds get the bosses killed and get them on farm status (meaning they can kill the bosses without fail each weekly reset).

Fast-forward to a few months later. The top guilds have been farming the bosses for a long time and a few 2nd tier guilds are getting some kills, but most raiding guilds are struggling a lot with progressing. They are getting killed over and over by tight requirements and unforgiving mechanics. So to ensure that the bulk of the raiding population (the lower tier guilds) don’t give up on the game, they nerf some of the harder bosses. Inevitably some of the people in top guilds complain about this, but there is no special title for it.

The people in the top guilds already got their reward, in the form of 1) getting all the rewards before everybody else and 2) being able to brag about their accomplishments. In fact, they can now say “I killed X boss pre-nerf.”

This is usually how it works in MMOs, that for the first ones there, the thing that separates them from the people who came later is the feeling of knowing that they got to the finish line first. Like a race.

If you got this stuff before the nerfs, you already placed first. You won the race. Anet could give you a badge to say that you won the race, but I have to ask: Are you sure the medal is what you did it for, or was it for the feeling of beating the competition?

I get what you’re saying and I agree for the most part. In regards to you analogy to say WoW, Blizzard actually make certain achievements and titles unavailable after they nerf them to acknowledge those who were able to do it before the nerfs. I’m just saying Anet are listening to and rewarding a lot of crying about the amount of effort.

I did enjoy the time I put in and it was my reward, but now the next bloke gets to come along, put in half the time and get the same reward….. I hope you can see how that is rough.