Guild Wars 2

In vanilla we had a lot of content that was mostly soloable or faceroll simple. While this was good from a personal perspective I feel it took away from the idea that people should work together on a map.

Before HoT map chats were empty boring places. Now in Maguuma there are people who need help with a hero point or a particular group event. While they aren’t conversation starters themselves they can lead to people communicating more.

One thing I thoroughly enjoyed from FF14 was the fact that small group based content is introduced very early on and its difficulty slowly ramping up till max level. Building on top of that they have 8 man raids.

This is something that I am glad to see come to GW2 but I feel that GW2s raid content is too heavily tuned to good players without a place for mediocre players to practice their skills.

I am not saying the raid needs a nerf, the current level of difficulty IS required to make it meaningful however what I am saying is that outside of raiding there is no place where 10 players can get together and play hard content in order to get used to the type of gameplay in raids.

Currently when you go into raiding there is no prior 10 man group experience for you to draw from and it can feel quite daunting. In FF14 there are usually two versions of bosses, both of which are challenging but one clearly tuned to be beaten and one to be challenged with greater skill.

Would it be reasonable to have a ‘easy mode’ where you can beat it with AB/DS like difficulty and a ‘normal mode’ where its currently tuned now.

I’m sure there are a lot of us out there who have a lot of skill but can’t find a full team without making a schedule. Those of us who have the gear but not the team to just experience the fight mechanics.

Yes, but the elitists will say that PUGs don’t deserve to raid.

I’ve tried raids, and it’s very similar to WoW back in The Burning Crusade/vanilla.

A lot of specs in the game, but only a few are good enough to clear the content and everything else is undertuned. So forget about “play how you want” or “bring the player, not the class”. HoT raiding follows a very old school outdated mindset, where people get pidgeonholed into specific builds or they just cannot come because their build is simply not good enough at that role.

Matters are made only worst as anet mainly balances around pvp, so it’s entirely possible (and wouldnt be the first time) that you invest a lot of time and resources into fully decking out a character for that right build only to have a blanket nerf aimed at pvp make it all pointless.

saturn.4810:

Yes, but the elitists will say that PUGs don’t deserve to raid.

complete nonsense, “elitists” say no such thing, raids are pugged in other games all the time. Most of the pre-raid organisation is about roles, which are still mostly missing in GW2 (good thing too), so this should even be easier here. But telling from your agenda, I guess you are a “casual” and hence are talking about things you have no idea about.

saturn.4810:

Yes, but the elitists will say that PUGs don’t deserve to raid.

@Elitists.

Excuse me, we paid the same money for the expansion.

Only to be excluded and prevented from experiencing some of the content.

It should be possible for all players to experience all of the content, no matter how good or bad they are, that’s why some content, such as raids should have a difficulty level, with reduced rewards.

So everybody who wishes to, can start at a low level and work their way up.

Solid Gold.9310:

It should be possible for all players to experience all of the content, no matter how good or bad they are, that’s why some content, such as raids should have a difficulty level, with reduced rewards.

So everybody who wishes to, can start at a low level and work their way up.

Multiple difficulty levels for the raid would definitely have given the content a wider audience, which is always a good thing in games.

Solid Gold.9310:

saturn.4810:

Yes, but the elitists will say that PUGs don’t deserve to raid.

@Elitists.

Excuse me, we paid the same money for the expansion.

Only to be excluded and prevented from experiencing some of the content.

It should be possible for all players to experience all of the content, no matter how good or bad they are, that’s why some content, such as raids should have a difficulty level, with reduced rewards.

So everybody who wishes to, can start at a low level and work their way up.

I agree whole heartedly, Raids should be dictated by a level of difficulty, like Fractals. Maybe in 5 stages of difficulty, 1 being easiest with the lowest chance of good rewards, and 5 being the hardest with the highest level of rewards.

Everyone should be able to experience the Raids, not just only the “Srs bsnss” players…

I can live without raids. But why dungeon rewards are nerfed?

You can get 4 gold once of week? I dont need legendery armor or achiments. I only need more easy content.

Don’t forget all the gear (with the new stats) that are gated behind the raids. The gear grind is real.

Oh wow. I hate all of you. I mean it. You are the exact same people that ruined World of Wacraft. You moaned, you cried and you demanded, DEMANDED, to see everything in the game without any real challenge behind it.

Why the hell does it matter that you paid the same amount of money for the expansion as hard core raider? The fact of the matter is that what you paid for the game is irrelevant when it comes to content. It is not gated, it is not forced. None is forcing you to do it. You want to do it, you are forcing yourself to do it. Stop shifting blame and assume some responsibility. Why should you, a casual gamer who doesn’t put as much effort as hard core raider, have the same game experience? Hard core games obviously puts a lot more effort into the game, he should have extra rewards for it. Do you seriously want to be rewarded for nothing? You paid money to experience some challenges, some difficulties and you don’t want that part, you only want rewards? Get over yourself. I’m not a hard core gamer anymore and I’m perfectly happy with not being able to see raiding in HoT. I don’t have time for it, I don’t find it interesting and I don’t want to be THAT committed to the game. I play, casually, and I like when I am challenged. Legendary will take me a long time to finish and I’m quite upset about it because I, as a casual, shouldn’t have access to it at all! Jesus, if you want to pay-to-win, go play something else and leave this game to people like me, that like challenges.

Raids were advertised as an answer to that part of players, that demanded challenge. If YOU think that you need more challenge, do some raids. Otherwise, there are other things to do.

Triglavus.9271:

Oh wow. I hate all of you. I mean it. You are the exact same people that ruined World of Wacraft. You moaned, you cried and you demanded, DEMANDED, to see everything in the game without any real challenge behind it.

Why the hell does it matter that you paid the same amount of money for the expansion as hard core raider? The fact of the matter is that what you paid for the game is irrelevant when it comes to content. It is not gated, it is not forced. None is forcing you to do it. You want to do it, you are forcing yourself to do it. Stop shifting blame and assume some responsibility. Why should you, a casual gamer who doesn’t put as much effort as hard core raider, have the same game experience? Hard core games obviously puts a lot more effort into the game, he should have extra rewards for it. Do you seriously want to be rewarded for nothing? You paid money to experience some challenges, some difficulties and you don’t want that part, you only want rewards? Get over yourself. I’m not a hard core gamer anymore and I’m perfectly happy with not being able to see raiding in HoT. I don’t have time for it, I don’t find it interesting and I don’t want to be THAT committed to the game. I play, casually, and I like when I am challenged. Legendary will take me a long time to finish and I’m quite upset about it because I, as a casual, shouldn’t have access to it at all! Jesus, if you want to pay-to-win, go play something else and leave this game to people like me, that like challenges.

Im not sure what you are opposed to here. Would you be fine with two different modes if the reward disparity between two raid modes was very large?

Or under no circumstance would you be fine with two different modes for raids.

I’m just wondering. I have no skin in this fight because I don’t raid.

This is one of those ‘sounded so good on paper’ ideas – that doesn’t actually work in practice.

Here is what advocates imagine will happen..

Raiders will continue to raid like they used to – and get the same rewards! Woot.
Casuals will get a chance to ‘experience’ the content that they would see other wise. They will get to see the story..

Here is what will ACTUALLY HAPPEN..

Raiders will ‘practice’ on the new ‘casual’ mode before defeating the bosses on the main mode. Sometimes they won’t even get to the main mode. When they do get to and beat the boss instead of the ecstatic OMG I DEFEATED XYZ BOSS TODAY feeling they get they will feel ‘Meh’ it was a bit harder.. I guess I don’t really like raiding..

Casuals will initially be excited by raiding. WOOT raiding for undergeared people too. But when it fails – assuming its not total face roll people will get mad and yell at strangers. People are not nice to strangers.

Okay so maybe they make it ’can’t fail’ then it will feel really boring – kinda like a meta event but without any fear of failure that you still have to sign up for. They will be bored as well.

This is what WILL happen. Some of us KNOW this because we have played this game called World of Warcraft – which used to be immensely popular before they started listening to ‘casuals’ on forums.

Be careful what you wish for…

What is most important about game design is the playing EXPERIENCE. Its not maximizing the ‘value’ of your ‘content’. If you have an amusement park – its not important that all the customers go on EVERY SINGLE RIDE. All that matters is the rides they go on – they really really like.

This is a theme park MMO – we want fun rides. I will never do a PvP tournament – I still like it that they exist.

Hume.2876:

This is one of those ‘sounded so good on paper’ ideas – that doesn’t actually work in practice.

Here is what advocates imagine will happen..

Raiders will continue to raid like they used to – and get the same rewards! Woot.
Casuals will get a chance to ‘experience’ the content that they would see other wise. They will get to see the story..

Here is what will ACTUALLY HAPPEN..

Raiders will ‘practice’ on the new ‘casual’ mode before defeating the bosses on the main mode. Sometimes they won’t even get to the main mode. When they do get to and beat the boss instead of the ecstatic OMG I DEFEATED XYZ BOSS TODAY feeling they get they will feel ‘Meh’ it was a bit harder.. I guess I don’t really like raiding..

Casuals will initially be excited by raiding. WOOT raiding for undergeared people too. But when it fails – assuming its not total face roll people will get mad and yell at strangers. People are not nice to strangers.

Okay so maybe they make it ’can’t fail’ then it will feel really boring – kinda like a meta event but without any fear of failure that you still have to sign up for. They will be bored as well.

This is what WILL happen. Some of us KNOW this because we have played this game called World of Warcraft – which used to be immensely popular before they started listening to ‘casuals’ on forums.

Be careful what you wish for…

What is most important about game design is the playing EXPERIENCE. Its not maximizing the ‘value’ of your ‘content’. If you have an amusement park – its not important that all the customers go on EVERY SINGLE RIDE. All that matters is the rides they go on – they really really like.

This is a theme park MMO – we want fun rides. I will never do a PvP tournament – I still like it that they exist.

But if it cost 10 million to build that hardcore roller coaster and only 1% of your customers go on it well that was a huge wast + repairs so so, and since nothing new for the 99% they go find a new amusement park = Park no longer makes hardcore roller coasters ,+ was not the hole point in every one crying about how gw2 had no raids all about a challenge ? well go play hard mode raid why do you need to block others from experiencing the story why do you need shiny new loot ? was not the challenge the hole kitteniNG POINT seems like it was more about the mini/glider skin they could flaunt in ppls faces

jweez.7214:

Im not sure what you are opposed to here. Would you be fine with two different modes if the reward disparity between two raid modes was very large?

Or under no circumstance would you be fine with two different modes for raids.

I’m just wondering. I have no skin in this fight because I don’t raid.

I’ve raided in WoW on 1 difficulty, 2 difficulties, 3 and ultimately 4 difficulties. Raiding at 1 difficulty was the best experience I had in game, ever. 2 difficulties sort of worked however balance was an issue and exploiting was everywhere. Having 4 difficulties was the worst thing ever. It does not work. Long time hard core raiders are unaffected however items are devalued heavily and makes everything boring and uninteresting. You either raid seriously or you are not interested in raiding at all. If you are raiding seriously, having 4 difficulties is a nightmare if you decide to raid min-expansion. No guild wants you because you lack experience from latest content and you lack gear. Experience you won’t get so you need gear. In wow, it was pain. Could it be better in Gw2? Certainly but it would be so much worse than what there is right now.

Triglavus.9271:

Oh wow. I hate all of you. I mean it. You are the exact same people that ruined World of Wacraft. You moaned, you cried and you demanded, DEMANDED, to see everything in the game without any real challenge behind it.

Why the hell does it matter that you paid the same amount of money for the expansion as hard core raider? The fact of the matter is that what you paid for the game is irrelevant when it comes to content. It is not gated, it is not forced. None is forcing you to do it. You want to do it, you are forcing yourself to do it. Stop shifting blame and assume some responsibility. Why should you, a casual gamer who doesn’t put as much effort as hard core raider, have the same game experience? Hard core games obviously puts a lot more effort into the game, he should have extra rewards for it. Do you seriously want to be rewarded for nothing? You paid money to experience some challenges, some difficulties and you don’t want that part, you only want rewards? Get over yourself. I’m not a hard core gamer anymore and I’m perfectly happy with not being able to see raiding in HoT. I don’t have time for it, I don’t find it interesting and I don’t want to be THAT committed to the game. I play, casually, and I like when I am challenged. Legendary will take me a long time to finish and I’m quite upset about it because I, as a casual, shouldn’t have access to it at all! Jesus, if you want to pay-to-win, go play something else and leave this game to people like me, that like challenges.

“Leave his game to people like me, that like challenges” after saying you weren’t going to raid. No, but seriously, this game’s about as challenging as WoW as it stands.

GW2 was never marketed as a hardcore game for hardcore players doing hardcore things. It was marketed as a game you weren’t going to have to grind in (We all see where that went) and a game meant to be played how you want to play it. If more casual people want to see the raid content and go through it, why not let them with difficulty tiers that help them become better at raiding if they’ve never done it before, which gets a larger playerbase available to people who want to complete the hardest tiers of that raid?

But, uh , yeah, go back to your… “challenges” in GW2.

My idea would be to add 10 man to all the dungeons to allow more 10man content (and to revalidate old content, something they continue to say they are trying to do), while at the same time add a 5 man to the Spirit Vale. That way more 10 mans, and easier raid for those that need to learn the Spirit Vale without such punishing wipes. More people get more content. Win win. They can keep the content the same, but the look tables have higher rates with more people, a does the challenge.

For those of you that disagree, what is there to disagree about? Those that don’t want to no-life it get to experience the content and those that want a challange get the content they want. Do you think that it’s content that no one but the most dedicated can see? Why? This is like being mad at players that level exclusively through crafting. Demanding that because they didn’t get to lvl 80 through combat they should never see the outside of LA.

But if it cost 10 million to build that hardcore roller coaster and only 1% of your customers go on it well that was a huge wast + repairs so so, and since nothing new for the 99% they go find a new amusement park = Park no longer makes hardcore roller coasters ,+ was not the hole point in every one crying about how gw2 had no raids all about a challenge

Same rationale they used for WoW – but it doesn’t work. Again its not about ‘saving’ money – its about the best experience for your customers. Previously GW2 was a themepark that didn’t have a killer roller coaster – now it does.

Some people might want to ride on that roller coaster – some folks might want to right the tilt-whirl. But GW2 the amusement park has dozens of tilt-whirls, lots of ferris wheels and bumper cars. Why should they spend the time and money to make a kids ride version of the roller coaster?

It would be a crappy ride. A baby coaster is a snooze. Again we KNOW this because we have played LFR in WoW. It’s not a good experience. EZ-mode raiding is not a good idea – most of the fun – almost all of it comes from the difficulty and overcoming it.

But here is where the amusement park analogy breaks down.. LFR made raiding less fun for people that were already raiding because they felt compelled to do it to either gear up or learn the fights..

So you turn one positive experience into two negative ones. Its simply not good game design to promote bad game experiences. It’s much better to have some people who want to raid but can’t – aka BC WoW then it is to have tons of people turned off from raiding and MMOs in general (modern WoW).

WoW if you didn’t know is losing millions of customers and many feel they are leaving the industry. Its just not a good model to follow.

Triglavus.9271:

Oh wow. I hate all of you. I mean it. You are the exact same people that ruined World of Wacraft. You moaned, you cried and you demanded, DEMANDED, to see everything in the game without any real challenge behind it.

Why the hell does it matter that you paid the same amount of money for the expansion as hard core raider? The fact of the matter is that what you paid for the game is irrelevant when it comes to content. It is not gated, it is not forced. None is forcing you to do it. You want to do it, you are forcing yourself to do it. Stop shifting blame and assume some responsibility. Why should you, a casual gamer who doesn’t put as much effort as hard core raider, have the same game experience? Hard core games obviously puts a lot more effort into the game, he should have extra rewards for it. Do you seriously want to be rewarded for nothing? You paid money to experience some challenges, some difficulties and you don’t want that part, you only want rewards? Get over yourself. I’m not a hard core gamer anymore and I’m perfectly happy with not being able to see raiding in HoT. I don’t have time for it, I don’t find it interesting and I don’t want to be THAT committed to the game. I play, casually, and I like when I am challenged. Legendary will take me a long time to finish and I’m quite upset about it because I, as a casual, shouldn’t have access to it at all! Jesus, if you want to pay-to-win, go play something else and leave this game to people like me, that like challenges.

This attitude is why I left WoW. You’re welcome to return if you liked that.

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Warcraft?

For those who are arguing that WoWs difficulty system ‘ruined’ the experience I would like to point out the 10man and 25 man difficulty (I left before pug raiding so forgive my ignorance on that point) seemed to be good standards.

In Ulduar you could fight the bosses normally (desired tuning) or activate a special thing to make it ‘hard mode’ (current tuning)

They don’t even have to make the fight any easier in GW2, the most punishing thing on the first boss is the timer. Just giving us an extra minute or two would be more than sufficient.

Beyond the raiding difficulty point my main argument still stands. It’s that outside of raiding we have no way to experience 10man content without being severely punished by Vale Guardian.

i’ll throw my opinion which I know will be disregarded and trolled in on this. the only way to make raid content “fun” and keep with anet’s own goal of “every character, every build accepted everytime” is to take a page out of DCUO. that is to say use the dreaded random join. they have it coded for pvp already. basically I think raids should be hard. but I also think it’s a game and no one should be left out for “playing the game wrong”(which is opinion and nothing more) so I feel the game needs a icon at the top of the screen for raid content. you click it. then you click the raid you want. then you enter the raid que. if anet wants it to be a balanced group then players can enter the que as a particular role.(but i’d still prefer random join) when everyone is included everyone learns. zerk stacking killed dungeon content. lets not let this become the next zerk only dying content.

GreyWolf.8670:

This attitude is why I left WoW. You’re welcome to return if you liked that.

What attitude? That casuals were getting everything for no effort? We can see exactly how well WoW is doing when the devs started to listen to the casual user base. Stop whining about how entitled you are to have some experience just because you paid something. Raids were not in GW2 before and you didn’t miss them. Now that they are there and you cannot do them, you miss them? Get over yourself. If you feel like the game is forcing you to do something you don’t like, stop playing and stop ruining it for everyone else. If you think you are so good at game design, apply for a game dev job at Anet and “fix” the game that way.

Algreg.3629:

saturn.4810:

Yes, but the elitists will say that PUGs don’t deserve to raid.

complete nonsense, “elitists” say no such thing, raids are pugged in other games all the time. Most of the pre-raid organisation is about roles, which are still mostly missing in GW2 (good thing too), so this should even be easier here. But telling from your agenda, I guess you are a “casual” and hence are talking about things you have no idea about.

Ahhhhh, no this is incorrect. Raids are pugged in other games months after release. They are not pugged the day, week, or a month after release. I raided heavily in WoW, and PuGs had no chance in raids until the “elite” guilds let the secrets out of how to beat encounters. Now it’s true that eventually WoW made raids more casual friendly, but raids have typically been the realm of the elitist.

@Triglavus none of this would be an issue except there are certain things locked behind raid content. It’s not like how ascended drops at a higher rate in fractals, but you can still get the equivalent items eventually in the other game modes. In this situation you will not get equivalent items at any rate.

I personally got burned out on raiding. It was fun for quite a long time, but it stopped being fun for me. My guild had beaten every raid available by the time I burned out. I prefer to spend my time fighting real opponents over scripted opponents now. However even the crafted ascended is PvE-gated. Where are high-end WvW players/guilds to go to get anything even close to equivalent to what you get in raids/PvE?

GW2 (AN) was saying at one time: build diversity, no gear grind, fun, bring the player not the profession, play what you want, etc.

As Bob Dylan said: ’’I used to care, but things have changed".

If you can’t understand, or don’t want to understand, that’s your… problem.

Yes it’s a minor problem when you remember what others are faced with
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2015/nov/28/the-20-photographs-of-the-week

but yeah.

GW2 (AN) was saying at one time: build diversity, no gear grind, fun, bring the player not the profession, play what you want, etc.

Have you not heard of fractals? Groups want agony resist there.. and they prefer certain builds. Raiding is the same thing. Just because you suddenly want to raid – don’t pretend Arenanet changed the rules on you..

Kaiser.9873:

@Triglavus none of this would be an issue except there are certain things locked behind raid content. It’s not like how ascended drops at a higher rate in fractals, but you can still get the equivalent items eventually in the other game modes. In this situation you will not get equivalent items at any rate.

I personally got burned out on raiding. It was fun for quite a long time, but it stopped being fun for me. My guild had beaten every raid available by the time I burned out. I prefer to spend my time fighting real opponents over scripted opponents now. However even the crafted ascended is PvE-gated. Where are high-end WvW players/guilds to go to get anything even close to equivalent to what you get in raids/PvE?

I honestly couldn’t care less. They are investing a lot more time than casuals are, I don’t mind having an item for them that I cannot get ever. It’s nothing game breaking so get over it.

I don’t understand why people whine that their super close small group of co-players is not cutting it anymore. You signed up for an MMO, not Team Fortress. Also, WoW is not hard core (PvE speaking) anymore. As soon as I pugged heroic boss on day 1 it was clear to me that casuals have won, game is totally casual and I left.

I find it extremely offensive that people cry that a guild of 3 is not able to get guild halls upgrades and that something is ’’locked’’ or ’’gated’’ behind ’’forced’’ 10 man raid content. It is an absolutely new addition to the game with focus on rewarding big groups of people for teamwork. You crying about ‘’not wanting to do content with people I don’t know’’ is not getting my sympathy and I hope none of the Devs sympathy. I’m sure Anet will nerf stuff if people CANNOT access it or is too difficult to get to.

Ps: The greatest raiding experience ever in game is World of Warcrafts Naxxramas 40 man (arguably, but a lot of people playing different games said this over the years single-mindedly). So the greatest experience in the game was also the most difficult. Less than 1% of entire WoW playerbase at that time killed 1 boss in the raid, let alone final boss. Despite this, it’s still the best raid they ever released. I’m pretty sure this speaks for itself.

Don’t worry. 100’s elitists is not enough money compared to 1000’s of casuals.
Building tough/HC content which only fraction of population can enjoy is not economical.
It is always the same – datadisc arrives, tough content is served, few guilds can flex on the world/server 1st’s … and then the patches will come… till everyone can do it.

Triglavus.9271:

GreyWolf.8670:

This attitude is why I left WoW. You’re welcome to return if you liked that.

What attitude? That casuals were getting everything for no effort? We can see exactly how well WoW is doing when the devs started to listen to the casual user base.

Problem is, WoW was a hardcore game that started catering to casuals, thus changing their core target group. GW2 was a game for casuals that suddenly started catering to hardcores at the cost of their target group. If you think that changing target group killed WoW, you have to realize that exactly the same will happen here.

…also, you seem to ignore that going primarily hardcore is no longer a viable strategy for games that are not satisfied to stay as niche and relatively small ones. Casuals simply are no longer willing to sponsor hardcores at their own expenses.

The raids will get either abandoned or nerfed eventually. The only question is how fast Anet will cave in and how much the population will suffer duing that time.

Triglavus.9271:

Ps: The greatest raiding experience ever in game is World of Warcrafts Naxxramas 40 man (arguably, but a lot of people playing different games said this over the years single-mindedly). So the greatest experience in the game was also the most difficult. Less than 1% of entire WoW playerbase at that time killed 1 boss in the raid, let alone final boss. Despite this, it’s still the best raid they ever released. I’m pretty sure this speaks for itself.

Nah, it doesn’t say anything. It’s “the best” only for people that like raids, and like them to be hard. It may be “good raid”, but for many, many people it will still be “bad entertainment”.

ANet keeps saying Players want the challenging content. But Whom is the players? Youtubers? Celebrities and their internet followers?

i personally don’t ask for challenging contents. just curious.

Problem is, WoW was a hardcore game that started catering to casuals, thus changing their core target group. GW2 was a game for casuals that suddenly started catering to hardcores at the cost of their target group. If you think that changing target group killed WoW, you have to realize that exactly the same will happen here.

Untrue. GW2 was meant to cater to all groups. Casuals are of course they largest groups so they get the most content.

But they have far more hardcore PvP and WvW then WoW has. They have events with money on the line.. Professional gamers are far more hardcore then anything WoW ahs.

Raiding is just meant to give some of the hardcore guilds something to do. It’s important to cater to your hardcore players because they head guilds, write guides etc etc. Arenanet was just throwing their PvE hardcore guys a bone. They already had some hardcore PvP guys.

The guys we had who wanted to raid were stuck with triple wurm and teq – and that become pretty boring for them. Good on arenanet giving them something to do.

Casuals OTOH have endless stuff to do – tons of bosses – tons of meta events – personal story, living story, collections etc etc etc.

GW2 is still pretty casual oriented – but that doesn’t mean EVERY SINGLE BIT of content has to engineered for casuals. Think of GW2 as an amusement park – not everyone has to ride every single ride..

Some guys only go on the water slide.. Some guys really just like the bumper cars etc etc.

ANet keeps saying Players want the challenging content. But Whom is the players? Youtubers? Celebrities and their internet followers?

The same people that did fractal 50s before the patch. The hardcore PvE guys are out there. They just didn’t have that much to do..

Hume.2876:

Untrue. GW2 was meant to cater to all groups. Casuals are of course they largest groups so they get the most content.

But they have far more hardcore PvP and WvW then WoW has. They have events with money on the line.. Professional gamers are far more hardcore then anything WoW ahs.

Raiding is just meant to give some of the hardcore guilds something to do. It’s important to cater to your hardcore players because they head guilds, write guides etc etc. Arenanet was just throwing their PvE hardcore guys a bone. They already had some hardcore PvP guys.

The guys we had who wanted to raid were stuck with triple wurm and teq – and that become pretty boring for them. Good on arenanet giving them something to do.

Casuals OTOH have endless stuff to do – tons of bosses – tons of meta events – personal story, living story, collections etc etc etc.

GW2 is still pretty casual oriented – but that doesn’t mean EVERY SINGLE BIT of content has to engineered for casuals. Think of GW2 as an amusement park – not everyone has to ride every single ride..

Some guys only go on the water slide.. Some guys really just like the bumper cars etc etc.

I’m glad that there are people able to see this as it should be. In the end, you have not bought an expansion, you have bought a privilege to play on their servers an expansion. I see no problem with raiders having extra rewards, I’m uninterested and if some casual dares to say that they need to have that skin and that they demand access to the raid for them as well, I will gladly point out that as a filthy casual (such as myself) you shouldn’t have any business of collecting a cutting edge content rewards, let alone having an easy access to them.