Guild Wars 2

So I can’t say I was one of the high and mighty elitist Alpha testers to brag about how fast I / We can get a kill in here but as it stands with what rotations we have been going through in fully geared out players with team speak and without…

8 Minutes seems to be really designed for the guilds that ran the tests, ATT and DnT .

I am not saying the content needs to be nerfed, nothing of that sort.
This content is great so far. A few minor bugs here an there but… overall NO the content isn’t TOO hard I just believe the content is too based on the guilds preference in alpha, I mean hardly ANYONE from the public got into RAIDS in Beta before they shut it down so we had absolutely no say in the matter to if it was too strict on what was needed.

I have been running with my guild and others as well have for 15+ hours and YES I know people besides the almighty DnT have beaten the INTRO boss and possibly the others BUT as it stands the timer seems to be the problem.

8 whole minutes to do 5 Phases in 1 minute 6 seconds is extremely DPS CHECK and RNG based.

Based on 100% RNG due to the lightning AOE placement, if it’s spawned on the boss multiple times, great! You’re bound to make the DPS before the rage limit!

If not? Ho you’re kittened you ain’t tanking 200%+ DPS.

TL;DR

The content is fun, it’s challenging but it is WAY to demanding with this kind of timer limit, It takes about 2 minutes for the average runner to finish a phase give or take 3.

Adding 2 minutes to the already 8 gives it not that much less or more of a challenge it balances it out for everyone while not making it too difficult.

Only got 6 hours into the raid so far, got to phase 4, 4 times. I’m thinking the time is fine, but maybe instead of the timer hitting 0 and the boss becoming 200% stronger. When the timer hits 0 maybe the boss only becomes 50% stronger and every 30seconds after time is depleted boss becomes 25% more strong. So that 0-30 seconds after timer ends he’s 50% more powerful and then 30-60 seconds after timer he’s 75% stronger and so on and so forth.

I have to agree with the OP, the timer dosen’t seem right to me. We did like 5h worth of tries yesterday and we got to phase 5 about 5-6 times. But we have some guildies not running full dps build and some pugs in our group that we had no control over. We had one healer and one bunker and playing that role, they got the new stats that came up with hots and what was supposed to be apropriated for that specific role.
But we fail for the timer. And that wasn’t no way that we could kill the boss with our comp, even doing the mechanics the best way we could. And sometimes we were perfect doing it…
I thought the zerker meta would be gone in raids but the way the first fight is, it’s the ONLY way to defeat the boss and that made everyone in our guild a lot disapointed with the raids.
Shame on Anet for making the content for a few elite meta guilds that was on the beta, they made this content for those ppl and not for everyone.

There is no way all the people in a raid are going to be able to wear toughness gear and beat that timer.

Yet most people I’ve pugged with seem convinced they need toughness gear for raids and are geared that way. So DPS is low overall.

Just doesn’t work.

Raids are supposed to be beaten by only the best players.

If you find them unbeatable, then congratulations! Despite what you may have told yourself before now, you’re not one of the best players. This content isn’t for you.

You now have two choices. Choose wisely, and remember that this is only the first raid. It’s supposed to be the easy one.

Celtic Lady.3729:

There is no way all the people in a raid are going to be able to wear toughness gear and beat that timer.

Yet most people I’ve pugged with seem convinced they need toughness gear for raids and are geared that way. So DPS is low overall.

Just doesn’t work.

That’s not even true, all groups managed to bean vale guardian have 1 tank with high toughness, that’s a fact.

warbignime.4610:

Celtic Lady.3729:

There is no way all the people in a raid are going to be able to wear toughness gear and beat that timer.

Yet most people I’ve pugged with seem convinced they need toughness gear for raids and are geared that way. So DPS is low overall.

Just doesn’t work.

That’s not even true, all groups managed to bean vale guardian have 1 tank with high toughness, that’s a fact.

Learn reading comprehension

Palador.2170:

Raids are supposed to be beaten by only the best players.

If you find them unbeatable, then congratulations! Despite what you may have told yourself before now, you’re not one of the best players. This content isn’t for you.

You now have two choices. Choose wisely, and remember that this is only the first raid. It’s supposed to be the easy one.

While I don’t know if the severity of what you’re saying is correct, I do agree that the fights are tuned correctly. Raids, especially upon release, are not designed to be defeated by every player and especially not those in PUG groups. These fights are designed to be killed by fully coordinated guild groups who spend time practicing and learning the mechanics together. While that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try if you don’t have a hardcore guild group, it does mean that we need to keep our expectations for success in check when pugging the bosses. I wiped for six hours straight last night in pug groups before switching over to a guild group and almost getting a kill. It was by far the most fun I’ve had playing GW2 in the past three years. I wouldn’t be surprised if over time, these fights got easier for more casual groups in some way, but this content is definitely designed to be a challenge for the hardcore players in dedicated groups. If it’s hard for them, it must then be even harder for everyone else.

I get that the content is suppose to be HARD a real challenge.
I am just a elite player (sorta) I know more than most, I lead better than most BUT.

I love to look out for the part of the community that most tend to brush aside for being too “kittenty” at playing MMOs

The time is very very close we killed him at 15 seconds remaining but this was after 24 straight hours of constantly retrying an retrying, the problem again is NOT the content but the TIMER.

I didn’t say it was IMPOSSIBLE but that it was really hard to do it in 8 minutes for the public who have no ability to join guilds like DnT ATT or what not.

Nekomi.9562:

The content is fun, it’s challenging but it is WAY to demanding with this kind of timer limit, It takes about 2 minutes for the average runner to finish a phase give or take 3.

I think you misunderstand… that time limit wasn’t chosen because they thought everyone (or the “average runner”) could meet it, they chose it specifically because they thought you couldn’t. It’s supposed to put real pressure on you to rethink your builds and strategies. If you’d rather have your mechanics tailor-made to what an average player can already do, there’s a whole game out there like that.

Plus, wtf, it’s only been out for 24 hours. If an average, scarcely prepared raid group could go in and kill a boss immediately that would be pretty disappointing (and, btw, I’m not entirely sure that hasn’t happened). This is content that you’re supposed to die to over and over while slowly seeing more and more progress. If it takes a month for really casual players to finally see a kill, that probably means it’s in good shape.

Something to think about: even if Arenanet changes nothing, these bosses will never be easier than they are right at this moment. Once the build guides start appearing, once the community figures out meta raid comps, it’s only going to get easier. Be careful what nerfs you want to see so early, because there is a danger that this content is already too easy to have real longevity, even if it’s not obvious yet.

Palador.2170:

Raids are supposed to be beaten by only the best players.

If you find them unbeatable, then congratulations! Despite what you may have told yourself before now, you’re not one of the best players. This content isn’t for you.

You now have two choices. Choose wisely, and remember that this is only the first raid. It’s supposed to be the easy one.

Or, you know, considering the raid came out YESTERDAY, it will take time for people to learn the fight and what builds to use.

Yes, you will need to be an above average player, that’s always how raids have been. But you rarely have to be the best player. You just need to be someone who is committed to learning the fights.

If people thought this was going to be as simple as hitting up LFG, jumping in a PUG and knocking the raid out in an afternoon they will have a bad day.

They are typically designed for a static group that can coordinate properly on voice and are able to move around class and build setups as needed.

I think some people thought they would be dungeon+, when in reality it will take some serious coordination and patience to master.

You don’t need to be the best, but you need to put actual effort in, which I know is difficult for the majority of GW2 players who want max rewards with minimal effort.

typographie.1742:

Nekomi.9562:

The content is fun, it’s challenging but it is WAY to demanding with this kind of timer limit, It takes about 2 minutes for the average runner to finish a phase give or take 3.

I think you misunderstand… that time limit wasn’t chosen because they thought everyone (or the “average runner”) could meet it, they chose it specifically because they thought you couldn’t. It’s supposed to put real pressure on you to rethink your builds and strategies. If you’d rather have your mechanics tailor-made to what an average player can already do, there’s a whole game out there like that.

Plus, wtf, it’s only been out for 24 hours. If an average, scarcely prepared raid group could go in and kill a boss immediately that would be pretty disappointing (and, btw, I’m not entirely sure that hasn’t happened). This is content that you’re supposed to die to over and over while slowly seeing more and more progress. If it takes a month for really casual players to finally see a kill, that probably means it’s in good shape.

Something to think about: even if Arenanet changes nothing, these bosses will never be easier than they are right at this moment. Once the build guides start appearing, once the community figures out meta raid comps, it’s only going to get easier. Be careful what nerfs you want to see so early, because there is a danger that this content is already too easy to have real longevity, even if it’s not obvious yet.

Again I am NOT saying they NEED to nerf it.

I am looking out for the part of the community that most tend to brush aside.

I myself abiet not in DnT as a member but very organized in non-ts running things and very very efficient in running ts, prefer looking out for others rather than myself 100% of the time.

If someone wants to learn the mechanics or needs a guide I’ll be happy to help but you get the idea. I’m not saying I want the content nerfed but something more doable for the pugs, maybe a challenge mote to give nothing for completing the boss but rather to fight it as an easier practice.

I don’t know again. I just like looking out for the casuals.

DPS checks are for games with gear treadmills. It serves no purpose in this game except to perpetuate the toxicity around arbitrary DPS metas. Throw the enrage timers out the window. If a group wants to down a boss in a whacky tank setup let them. The groups who want to efficiency clear will still do that. The rest of the world shouldn’t be considered ABSOLUTELY HARAM. Anet built a game that doesn’t need a meta at all, but they can’t see that for some reason.

Draknar.5748:

Palador.2170:

Raids are supposed to be beaten by only the best players.

Yes, you will need to be an above average player, that’s always how raids have been. But you rarely have to be the best player. You just need to be someone who is committed to learning the fights.

I think raids should be accessible to anyone willing to learn the fights, be coordinated, and is decently well geared. Raids can be a lot of fun and I agree that they should be challenging but also able to be enjoyed by more than a handful of “best” players.

If you have to be geared out in all ascended (or in the future, all legendary) and the mouse has to float in the air beneath your hand in order to make a useful contribution in a raid, then they’re not accessible enough.

But that’s my opinion.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Draknar.5748:

Palador.2170:

Raids are supposed to be beaten by only the best players.

Yes, you will need to be an above average player, that’s always how raids have been. But you rarely have to be the best player. You just need to be someone who is committed to learning the fights.

I think raids should be accessible to anyone willing to learn the fights, be coordinated, and is decently well geared. Raids can be a lot of fun and I agree that they should be challenging but also able to be enjoyed by more than a handful of “best” players.

If you have to be geared out in all ascended (or in the future, all legendary) and the mouse has to float in the air beneath your hand in order to make a useful contribution in a raid, then they’re not accessible enough.

But that’s my opinion.

Why would being in legendary be a requirement in the future? It’s statistically identical to ascended.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Draknar.5748:

Palador.2170:

Raids are supposed to be beaten by only the best players.

Yes, you will need to be an above average player, that’s always how raids have been. But you rarely have to be the best player. You just need to be someone who is committed to learning the fights.

I think raids should be accessible to anyone willing to learn the fights, be coordinated, and is decently well geared. Raids can be a lot of fun and I agree that they should be challenging but also able to be enjoyed by more than a handful of “best” players.

If you have to be geared out in all ascended (or in the future, all legendary) and the mouse has to float in the air beneath your hand in order to make a useful contribution in a raid, then they’re not accessible enough.

But that’s my opinion.

So again, keeping in mind that the raid was released yesterday, I do think that we are going to see these first few bosses reach that point. But it has to be said, that part of learning these fights is learning the correct team comp for these fights. GW2 is unique in that they hand out levels like candy on Halloween and the gear grind is almost non-existent, which means that players can (or should :P) have access to several different professions should they want to be raiding. It’s possible we see fights in the future that lend themselves to much different team comps than we’re seeing now, but who’s to tell.

Anet is doing something better in this raid than I have seen in any other MMO so far, and that’s not only making players learn mechanics, but also making players learn different group compositions and different builds. In WoW, as an example, raid compositions rarely changed from boss to boss and you’d what? maybe switch a talent or two? The build I first used on the vale guardian is wildly different than the build I ended up with at the end. And my group certainly saw progress as we all started making changes to builds and switching professions.

As far as I can tell, the initial pacing of this raid has been on point. Only a few kills yesterday, but more slowly coming in. Groups couldn’t kill the second boss of four after 24 hours in the raid (unless a kill has happened I’m not aware of yet), and that seems exactly right for a raid release schedule. We’ll see the more casual-raiders (as opposed to casual-players) getting kills in the next few weeks. Anet has designed some really really engaging encounters and we should all be working towards beating them instead of screaming for nerfs on the forums (not that you are, but other people certainly are). The fact that the boss has gone down means we all can bring it down. It’ll just take us a little more work than DnT. XD

(And as someone mentioned above, legendary equipment always has equal stat levels to the best-in-slot gear – which will be ascended probably forever into the future – so will never be a requirement to have in any weapon or gear slot.)

PopeUrban.2578:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Draknar.5748:

Palador.2170:

Raids are supposed to be beaten by only the best players.

Yes, you will need to be an above average player, that’s always how raids have been. But you rarely have to be the best player. You just need to be someone who is committed to learning the fights.

I think raids should be accessible to anyone willing to learn the fights, be coordinated, and is decently well geared. Raids can be a lot of fun and I agree that they should be challenging but also able to be enjoyed by more than a handful of “best” players.

If you have to be geared out in all ascended (or in the future, all legendary) and the mouse has to float in the air beneath your hand in order to make a useful contribution in a raid, then they’re not accessible enough.

But that’s my opinion.

Why would being in legendary be a requirement in the future? It’s statistically identical to ascended.

For the stat swap, though without runes/sigil swaps this would be limited but still utilized if they chose.

I think the only reason the enrage timer exists is precisely so “elite” guilds can’t complain about other groups beating their precious content with slightly less offensive gear.
I also think the enrage timer is only incentivizing the toxic meta we all know about.
That said, I also dislike the pulsing aoe the boss has simply to force you to bring someone to heal. Not a fan of that either.
The rest is brillinat, though.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

I think the only reason the enrage timer exists is precisely so “elite” guilds can’t complain about other groups beating their precious content with slightly less offensive gear.
I also think the enrage timer is only incentivizing the toxic meta we all know about.
That said, I also dislike the pulsing aoe the boss has simply to force you to bring someone to heal. Not a fan of that either.
The rest is brillinat, though.

The enrage timer exists to make the mechanics more difficult. This fight would be a fairly simple tank and spank encounter without it. My group saw significant dps improvements as we mastered each mechanic last night, reaching phase two with 6:20 remaining after a near-flawless execution of phase one. Without good execution of phase one, we could always bring the boss to phase two without having members of the group go fully down, but with much less time remaining on the timer. If there was no timer, our mistakes would have much less impact on our success in the encounter. tl;dr the timer is necessary to provide challenge which is exactly what we asked for.

I’d also like to point out that it’s interesting you think the zerker meta is being enforced, while also pointing out the need to bring a class that’s specifically not a zerker: a healer. Suddenly the need for a dedicated tank and healer is in the meta. Of course you’re always going to need zerkers. The zerker meta was about the entire group being zerker. Getting rid of the zerker meta in no way means getting rid of zerker builds, it means making other builds viable/required in addition to zerker builds and that’s exactly what we’re seeing.

I’m not exactly sure what pulsing aoe you’re talking about either because this boss doesn’t have any sort of guaranteed pulsing aoe mechanic. If you’re having trouble figuring out the mechanics, videos and written guides are popping up all over the place and I’d recommend giving those a look. Not everything is entirely obvious and my guild went through a lot of trial and error before consistently being able to reach phase 5.

softblackcarbon.1537:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

I think the only reason the enrage timer exists is precisely so “elite” guilds can’t complain about other groups beating their precious content with slightly less offensive gear.
I also think the enrage timer is only incentivizing the toxic meta we all know about.
That said, I also dislike the pulsing aoe the boss has simply to force you to bring someone to heal. Not a fan of that either.
The rest is brillinat, though.

The enrage timer exists to make the mechanics more difficult. This fight would be a fairly simple tank and spank encounter without it. My group saw significant dps improvements as we mastered each mechanic last night, reaching phase two with 6:20 remaining after a near-flawless execution of phase one. Without good execution of phase one, we could always bring the boss to phase two without having members of the group go fully down, but with much less time remaining on the timer. If there was no timer, our mistakes would have much less impact on our success in the encounter. tl;dr the timer is necessary to provide challenge which is exactly what we asked for.

I’d also like to point out that it’s interesting you think the zerker meta is being enforced, while also pointing out the need to bring a class that’s specifically not a zerker: a healer. Suddenly the need for a dedicated tank and healer is in the meta. Of course you’re always going to need zerkers. The zerker meta was about the entire group being zerker. Getting rid of the zerker meta in no way means getting rid of zerker builds, it means making other builds viable/required in addition to zerker builds and that’s exactly what we’re seeing.

I’m not exactly sure what pulsing aoe you’re talking about either because this boss doesn’t have any sort of guaranteed pulsing aoe mechanic. If you’re having trouble figuring out the mechanics, videos and written guides are popping up all over the place and I’d recommend giving those a look. Not everything is entirely obvious and my guild went through a lot of trial and error before consistently being able to reach phase 5.

All guardians have a boon on them, magic aura or something like that, that hits for about 4-5k every few seconds.

Yday I beat him with my guild, which happens to be specialized on WvW. We had just four people on the squad who are a lot into PvE stuff, organizing the squad and trying to push us to be better. It took 3 – 4 hours of trying, but in the end we got him 4 seconds AFTER the timer was zero. You don’t need to be from DnT or ATT, you just have to learn the encounter and be wearing the right gear