Guild Wars 2

Torady.3907:

wasnt it evident that this was the direction they wanted to go when they released Dry top and Silverwastes ?

but honestly what direction do you want to go ? back to big static maps like Lornar’s Pass ?

The funny thinig is, I despise Dry Top for it´s emphasis on jumps and slim RNG luck with insect drops.
On the other hand, I like Silverwaste. It does not involve jumping if you do not want to jump, and RNG is much more generous.

I would be perfectly happy with HoT if it had taken the direction of SW, but it is Dry Top all over again. And to add insult to injury, you only do not have to jump on the rooftop here, but also in the cellar in later maps. Boring, exclusive and grindy all at once.

VaLee.5102:

@displacedTitan
The issue players have is that GW2 was advertised and designed as a casual game for over 3 years, that’s why a lot of the players started playing it. Changing the direction of where the game goes or changing the target audience would upset such players ofc.

Imagine if you bought a car advertised as a family car, you buy it to casually drive it to work, vacations, etc. Then after 3 years the manufacturer recalls your car and modifies it into a truck. You wouldn’t really like that, if you wanted a truck you would’ve bought a truck from the beginning, you just want a family car.

Thats a poor analogy, nothing you had before was taken away they only gave you new options to play with. I get that people wanted the game to remain super casual and, honestly, it has. You can still play mindless farm EZ mode on the new maps, you just arent as fast since you wont be there for the whole meta. No one is making you play Raids or finish the Meta Events and maps from start to finish.

The unspoken complaint in all of these threads is that other people are now getting loot faster than you can from just pressing 1 for hours as you watch Netflix. You can still get everything by running the new maps and pressing 1, its just not as fast as people playing better than you who are willing to do the whole event.

If people on these forums were capable of self-reflection they would realize the issue is with them and not with the game.

VaLee.5102:

@displacedTitan
The issue players have is that GW2 was advertised and designed as a casual game for over 3 years, that’s why a lot of the players started playing it. Changing the direction of where the game goes or changing the target audience would upset such players ofc.

Imagine if you bought a car advertised as a family car, you buy it to casually drive it to work, vacations, etc. Then after 3 years the manufacturer recalls your car and modifies it into a truck. You wouldn’t really like that, if you wanted a truck you would’ve bought a truck from the beginning, you just want a family car.

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

Your analogy makes it look like GW2 was transformed into an entirely new game while in truth it simply added new (albeit different and less casual) zones. GW2 will need many many more expansions before the “car” becomes a “truck”.

Crinn.7864:

The masteries QQ is ridiculous. Would you rather go back to a leveling system where you can’t do content until you’re level X? The only difference between masteries and a traditional leveling system is that I can choose which zone’s masteries to focus on first rather than having to grind levels on all previous zones first.

Actually, I’m not interested in levelling at all. Progression is a synonym for mindless work, running in place.

I want content, not grind. I want to see things, have interesting adventures, find cool stuff.

VaLee.5102:

Pretty much this. If I want raids I’ll go back to WoW, a game that was designed for raids and better raid content than anything GW2 can do with its current system.

Raids in GW2 were only added because players asked for challenging content, but the game was never designed for it. So you get this mishmash of ideas patched and stiched together to make it work somehow.

The funny part is, some people did ask for raids:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Raiding/first

I’d have to read the CDI thread in detail to see how much peoples’ requests match the result though. It would seem that for the most part, Anet just went over to other raiding games, played them a bit, and then copied the gist of them into GW2 (but maybe I’m being a bit presumptuous at this stage).

Straylight.7529:

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

Your analogy makes it look like GW2 was transformed into an entirely new game while in truth it simply added new (albeit different and less casual) zones.

Yeah, but we both know that’s a lame excuse. The discussion is about HoT content specifically, which wasn’t just a free content patch – it was an expansion. And while I’m a skilled enough player that some of the “new direction” type stuff doesn’t bother me a whole lot, I can’t deny that 90% (if not 100%) of HoT content is designed with a skilled caliber of player in mind.

Labjax.2465:

Straylight.7529:

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

Your analogy makes it look like GW2 was transformed into an entirely new game while in truth it simply added new (albeit different and less casual) zones.

Yeah, but we both know that’s a lame excuse. The discussion is about HoT content specifically, which wasn’t just a free content patch – it was an expansion.

There is no lame excuse here.

You want casual content: visit the core zones
You want something more challening: welcome to the jungle.

Both types of players are satisfied. The casuals and the ones who crave something more challenging.

Labjax.2465:

I can’t deny that 90% (if not 100%) of HoT content is designed with a skilled caliber of player in mind.

Why is that a problem? There is enough content for casual players already.

Straylight.7529:

VaLee.5102:

@displacedTitan
The issue players have is that GW2 was advertised and designed as a casual game for over 3 years, that’s why a lot of the players started playing it. Changing the direction of where the game goes or changing the target audience would upset such players ofc.

Imagine if you bought a car advertised as a family car, you buy it to casually drive it to work, vacations, etc. Then after 3 years the manufacturer recalls your car and modifies it into a truck. You wouldn’t really like that, if you wanted a truck you would’ve bought a truck from the beginning, you just want a family car.

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

Your analogy makes it look like GW2 was transformed into an entirely new game while in truth it simply added new (albeit different and less casual) zones. GW2 will need many many more expansions before the “car” becomes a “truck”.

This is exactly how I’m playing. I like my characters, enjoy refining them, travelling. If I want stress, I’ll deal with real world stuff.

I just feel like I wasted money on HoT, and am making sure ANET knows I won’t be buying any future expansions like it.

Sytherek.7689:

Straylight.7529:

VaLee.5102:

@displacedTitan
The issue players have is that GW2 was advertised and designed as a casual game for over 3 years, that’s why a lot of the players started playing it. Changing the direction of where the game goes or changing the target audience would upset such players ofc.

Imagine if you bought a car advertised as a family car, you buy it to casually drive it to work, vacations, etc. Then after 3 years the manufacturer recalls your car and modifies it into a truck. You wouldn’t really like that, if you wanted a truck you would’ve bought a truck from the beginning, you just want a family car.

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

Your analogy makes it look like GW2 was transformed into an entirely new game while in truth it simply added new (albeit different and less casual) zones. GW2 will need many many more expansions before the “car” becomes a “truck”.

This is exactly how I’m playing. I like my characters, enjoy refining them, travelling. If I want stress, I’ll deal with real world stuff.

I just feel like I wasted money on HoT, and am making sure ANET knows I won’t be buying any future expansions like it.

That’s your own fault. Should have informed yourself better before purchasing. The information that HoT is going to be more challenging was well known since the initial reveal back in January!

Straylight.7529:

But HoT didn’t modify GW2.

Guild buffs, fractal rewards, dungeon rewards, ascended crafting, and WvW say “HI!”

In fact did you know, unless changed recently, you can’t even claim the guild XP buff unless you own HoT? Or how expensive it is for WvW guilds to get the buffs they used to run for keeps, towers, and camps? They did change the core. That’s my problem.

Coyote.7031:

Straylight.7529:

But HoT didn’t modify GW2.

Guild buffs, fractal rewards, dungeon rewards, ascended crafting, and WvW say “HI!”

In fact did you know, unless changed recently, you can’t even claim the guild XP buff unless you own HoT? Or how expensive it is for WvW guilds to get the buffs they used to run for keeps, towers, and camps? They did change the core. That’s my problem.

Please read the post I quoted before you’re writing something like this. You’re taking my sentence totally out of context:

Straylight.7529:

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

The argument was about casual vs. hardcore / easy vs. difficult. The details you listed in your post are not relevant to this particular aspect of the discussion.

Straylight.7529:

Coyote.7031:

Straylight.7529:

But HoT didn’t modify GW2.

Guild buffs, fractal rewards, dungeon rewards, ascended crafting, and WvW say “HI!”

In fact did you know, unless changed recently, you can’t even claim the guild XP buff unless you own HoT? Or how expensive it is for WvW guilds to get the buffs they used to run for keeps, towers, and camps? They did change the core. That’s my problem.

Please read the post I quoted before you’re writing something like this. You’re taking my sentence totally out of context.

Not at all! Casual guilds used to have things like guild buffs available for all, not any more.

Dungeons used to be a profitable way to make a few gold in an hour and required little effort to find a group, not anymore!

WvW you could have personal guilds run the plus five buff on camps so your main guild could keep buffs on the keep/garri, not anymore!

I think the only change in my list that is good for casuals is the fact you can do fractals individually, but the rewards are broken. /shrugs

Straylight.7529:

Labjax.2465:

Straylight.7529:

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

Your analogy makes it look like GW2 was transformed into an entirely new game while in truth it simply added new (albeit different and less casual) zones.

Yeah, but we both know that’s a lame excuse. The discussion is about HoT content specifically, which wasn’t just a free content patch – it was an expansion.

There is no lame excuse here.

You want casual content: visit the core zones
You want something more challening: welcome to the jungle.

Both types of players are satisfied. The casuals and the ones who crave something more challenging.

Labjax.2465:

I can’t deny that 90% (if not 100%) of HoT content is designed with a skilled caliber of player in mind.

Why is that a problem? There is enough content for casual players already.

Ummmm, because people PAID for the expansion and expected the game to provide more content in line with what they’ve been enjoying for 3 years?

With the logic you’re putting forth, there is literally no reason for a casual player to have bought the expansion in the first place, which is absolute nonsense (if casual players had followed through on this logic of yours, the purchase numbers easily would have been halved, if not more). The expansion is supposed to freshen up the game and give new stuff to do, not give new stuff to do only for one caliber of player.

An expansion is not a free content patch. Stop trying to apply the “free content patch for a particular kind of player” logic onto “paid expansion.” It doesn’t fit.

Straylight.7529:

Sytherek.7689:

Straylight.7529:

VaLee.5102:

@displacedTitan
The issue players have is that GW2 was advertised and designed as a casual game for over 3 years, that’s why a lot of the players started playing it. Changing the direction of where the game goes or changing the target audience would upset such players ofc.

Imagine if you bought a car advertised as a family car, you buy it to casually drive it to work, vacations, etc. Then after 3 years the manufacturer recalls your car and modifies it into a truck. You wouldn’t really like that, if you wanted a truck you would’ve bought a truck from the beginning, you just want a family car.

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

Your analogy makes it look like GW2 was transformed into an entirely new game while in truth it simply added new (albeit different and less casual) zones. GW2 will need many many more expansions before the “car” becomes a “truck”.

This is exactly how I’m playing. I like my characters, enjoy refining them, travelling. If I want stress, I’ll deal with real world stuff.

I just feel like I wasted money on HoT, and am making sure ANET knows I won’t be buying any future expansions like it.

That’s your own fault. Should have informed yourself better before purchasing. The information that HoT is going to be more challenging was well known since the initial reveal back in January!

The issue with what you’re saying here is that it flies in the face of developer comments that were previously made. Yes, they stated that HoT would have “challenging content” and they specifically stated that it wasn’t the open world, and then they revealed raids and explicitly told us high level fractals and raids were the challenging content.

Additionally, Colin has previously made statements that while they (Anet) does not want “everyone to have everything” there were components of the game that they felt needed to be readily accessible to the entire player base (yes, even the most casual of casuals). It was explicitly stated that open world and story where those components; however, the way open world HoT is designed, it does not mesh these previous statements.

Granted, statements have been made (unsurprisingly, by Colin) and then reneged on before, so it’s not surprising to see it happen again. However, they really need to say something when they are going to do a complete 180 on their stance so fewer people feel jilted? slighted? lied to? However you choose to put it.

Labjax.2465:

Ummmm, because people PAID for the expansion and expected the game to provide more content in line with what they’ve been enjoying for 3 years?

If they expected that then they had to do it blindly. It was well known that HoT is going to be more challenging and difficult than the core game.

Labjax.2465:

With the logic you’re putting forth, there is literally no reason for a casual player to have bought the expansion in the first place, which is absolute nonsense (if casual players had followed through on this logic of yours, the purchase numbers easily would have been halved, if not more). The expansion is supposed to freshen up the game and give new stuff to do, not give new stuff to do only for one caliber of player.

Some casual players don’t shy away from challenges. Casual players already had enough content for the past three years. Arenanet decided to cater to the crowd who demanded more challenging content.

Labjax.2465:

An expansion is not a free content patch. Stop trying to apply the “free content patch for a particular kind of player” logic onto “paid expansion.” It doesn’t fit.

I never said anything remotely like that. I didn’t even use these descriptions you’re trying to put into my mouth.

Straylight.7529:

Labjax.2465:

Ummmm, because people PAID for the expansion and expected the game to provide more content in line with what they’ve been enjoying for 3 years?

If they expected that then they had to do it blindly. It was well known that HoT is going to be more challenging and difficult than the core game.

Labjax.2465:

With the logic you’re putting forth, there is literally no reason for a casual player to have bought the expansion in the first place, which is absolute nonsense (if casual players had followed through on this logic of yours, the purchase numbers easily would have been halved, if not more). The expansion is supposed to freshen up the game and give new stuff to do, not give new stuff to do only for one caliber of player.

Some casual players don’t shy away from challenges. Casual players already had enough content for the past three years. Arenanet decided to cater to the crowd who demanded more challenging content.

Labjax.2465:

An expansion is not a free content patch. Stop trying to apply the “free content patch for a particular kind of player” logic onto “paid expansion.” It doesn’t fit.

I never said anything remotely like that. I didn’t even use these descriptions you’re trying to put into my mouth.

The logic is what you’re implying, not what you’re directly saying. Stop trying to wriggle out of it with technicalities. And see what Lanfear said above about the expansion as advertised.

You are putting forth an incredibly selfish viewpoint that makes no sense. Honestly, it just sounds like you’ve been playing this game bitterly for years waiting for challenging content and you’re spiteful towards casual-minded players because of it.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Straylight.7529:

Sytherek.7689:

Straylight.7529:

VaLee.5102:

@displacedTitan
The issue players have is that GW2 was advertised and designed as a casual game for over 3 years, that’s why a lot of the players started playing it. Changing the direction of where the game goes or changing the target audience would upset such players ofc.

Imagine if you bought a car advertised as a family car, you buy it to casually drive it to work, vacations, etc. Then after 3 years the manufacturer recalls your car and modifies it into a truck. You wouldn’t really like that, if you wanted a truck you would’ve bought a truck from the beginning, you just want a family car.

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

Your analogy makes it look like GW2 was transformed into an entirely new game while in truth it simply added new (albeit different and less casual) zones. GW2 will need many many more expansions before the “car” becomes a “truck”.

This is exactly how I’m playing. I like my characters, enjoy refining them, travelling. If I want stress, I’ll deal with real world stuff.

I just feel like I wasted money on HoT, and am making sure ANET knows I won’t be buying any future expansions like it.

That’s your own fault. Should have informed yourself better before purchasing. The information that HoT is going to be more challenging was well known since the initial reveal back in January!

The issue with what you’re saying here is that it flies in the face of developer comments that were previously made. Yes, they stated that HoT would have “challenging content” and they specifically stated that it wasn’t the open world, and then they revealed raids and explicitly told us high level fractals and raids were the challenging content.

Additionally, Colin has previously made statements that while they (Anet) does not want “everyone to have everything” there were components of the game that they felt needed to be readily accessible to the entire player base (yes, even the most casual of casuals). It was explicitly stated that open world and story where those components; however, the way open world HoT is designed, it does not mesh these previous statements.

Granted, statements have been made (unsurprisingly, by Colin) and then reneged on before, so it’s not surprising to see it happen again. However, they really need to say something when they are going to do a complete 180 on their stance so fewer people feel jilted? slighted? lied to? However you choose to put it.

And what kind of 180 did they pull? Don’t you feel it’s a bit exaggerated to call it a 180? They said HoT is going to be more challening and that’s exactly how it turned out.

Though I admit I can sympthatize with the attitude of expecting some challening content while other stuff should remain readily accessible. But since HoT has only 4 zones I think it’s for the better that they made all of it challenging. Splitting up those 4 maps even further into easy/difficult would have been questionable. If they did let’s say 8 maps then making half of them easy and the other half difficult could have worked out. But with 4 maps? They had to make a call. And they chose difficult.

Labjax.2465:

The logic is what you’re implying, not what you’re directly saying. Stop trying to wriggle out of it with technicalities. And see what Lanfear said above about the expansion as advertised.

You are putting forth an incredibly selfish viewpoint that makes no sense. Honestly, it just sounds like you’ve been playing this game bitterly for years waiting for challenging content and you’re spiteful towards casual-minded players because of it.

I believe casual players had enough content in the past three years. On top of it that very content they enjoyed so far is still out there. I think it’s a good move from Arenanet to cater towards people who want something more challenging. That is not a selfish point of view. I simply welcome the bigger variety when it comes to difficulty that is now present in the game thanks to HoT and wasn’t there prior to HoT.

Unholy.1527:

A long time ago I was a hardcore raider in WoW (vanilla, bc, & wrath) and have conquered server-first boss kills, etc. I’ve since then accumulated a lot more real–life responsibilities that limit my play-time and make my schedules unpredictable. I am unable and unwilling to make commitments to guilds and to raiding because I do not want to feel that pressure to have to log on, to have to do this, to have to do that. I can’t keep up with that type of gaming anymore even though that itch is still there, it’s just not possible.

Guild Wars 2 never had any type of hardcore commitment; there was no monthly subscription either so it was always pick-up and play when you wanted. The game was designed around that and that’s what always kept me coming back. It’s why I’ve had the game since pre-release and I purchased the $100 copy of HoT.

The thing is HoT has moved the game in a much different direction than what GW2 represented to me and was to me prior to the expansion.

GW2 was a game where I could do anything at pretty much any time and have it feel meaningful while not having to dedicate a huge chunk or time or make a major commitment.

I could level up an alternate character through zones, story, crafting, EotM, or use the tons of tomes and scrolls I have lying around OR a combination of all of that OR only one of them!

I could PvP, WvW, Dungeon, Fractal, Explore (JPs / Other Achievements), or even do some World Bosses if I was on at the right time, pretty much at any time I wanted to.
I could do this on any of my characters with any type of gear and mostly any type of build.

HoT has changed all of that.

I have about 800-900 hours on my warrior (who is my main) but then I also have an additional 800 hours spread out amongst my alts. I have an 80 of every class (except rev). A few of them I have leveled up through story and map completions, some through EotM (somewhat recently but before HoT) and then I have a necro I leveled up with scrolls/tomes. Most of these characters I don’t play often enough to give them more than one set of exotic gear. In fact, even my warrior only has one set of gear and its exotic with some ascended trinkets, amulets, etc. and Twilight (which I FINALLY made a few weeks prior to HoT).

My point is, I play every aspect of the game and on a wide array of characters because not only do I enjoy it but because GW2 supported it and made it possible.

However, with the implementation of raids, the design of the new zones, and the destruction of dungeons and WvW I feel like I cannot do these things the way I used to and how the game was prior to HoT.

The design decision to have map-wide meta events tied to specific timers is extremely frustrating for me. If I do not log in or am not in a zone at a certain time I am out of luck for the next few hours if I want to complete it. I understand that they did not want map-hopping like SW but then maybe having 4 zones in HoT ALL with meta events was not exactly a great design.

Don’t get into a dragon stand map within in the first 30 minutes of the timer good luck finding one. Nobody attempts DS with an hour or even 90 minutes left on the timer.

Get into a fresh AB? have fun waiting about an hour for that Meta and it’s even longer with VB.

Oh, you need to complete VB event chains but log in during night time? Well, sorry, you have to wait 45 minutes until they begin.

This also ties into adventures being constantly locked due to map times and event progression. Need gold for those mastery points? You must progress the specific event for it and hopefully you have enough time to hone your skill at it before it closes!

Wait, you mentioned all the HoT zones but left out TD. Well, TD ties into two issues I have.

One, Guild Wars 2 was always about play how you want but in order to complete the Meta in that zone you must be a zerk meta advocate and spec’d specifically for DPS. Condi builds, GTFO, you can’t dps fast enough and your CC’s end up breaking the bar making the Gerent move which results in a dps loss for everyone.

Two, ANet talks about how they want you to be able to play how you want but then create a DPS race at the same time as saying they’re moving away from the zerk meta end-game.

Something doesn’t add up.

(I actually do not have an issue with Gerent, but I feel its poor taste to say one thing and design the opposite and then having the completion required for some collections/masteries/etc. despite the way it alienates players.)

Not only that but then they go ahead and create raids – the opposite of playing how you want. Raids are a pretty exclusive thing and a great thing for highly organized and structured guilds and players with manageable schedules. However, if you have been playing GW for this long I don’t think raids were something you were missing because the game has never been about them or designed with them in mind.

GW2 was always about doing what you wanted when you wanted and how you wanted.

You want legendary armor? You HAVE TO raid, you have to conform, you have to designate time in your schedule and study/learn boss mechanics . You need to have ascended gear because the Devs said it’s been tuned for such so no guild or PuG is going to let you in without it.

There are ways to create challenging group content for organized guilds for more than 5 players. Look at TT and even look at Gerent.

Honestly, ANet has just completely changed directions with the game and I personally do not like it. If I wanted a cookie-cutter raid based game I would not be playing GW2 there’s a million other games out there that have that and have it implemented better and were built around it as one of their core pillars. Throwing a raid into a 3 year old game with no supporting features around it is just poor design.

If they wanted to cater to the hardcore progression player, well, you already have fractals, too bad they can’t seem to get that right either.

Too much time and effort and tuning and perfection is required to create unique meaningful and challenging raids. ANet doesn’t have those types of resources and almost no game company does, look at the MMO landscape these days, every game gets chewed up and spit out when they resort to raiding as end-game.

I just do not understand what ANet was thinking when they decided to go in this direction with HoT and with the game in general.

I am not complaining about the value of the game. I definitely have gotten my money’s worth and do not feel cheated. I willingly paid the money for it and would do-so again. However, I just do not agree with the direction I am more and more beginning to realize that the game is going and wanted to voice my opinion and that fact that I may not be supporting the company in the future.

no time for all those other comments, but ur orig post was mostly inline w/ how i feel and i wanted to be sure i voiced support for u

Monk Tank.5897:

Catering to only one playstyle has only one direction.
Down.
Straight Down.

IF they really are moving in the direction of catering only to hard-core players, then this isn’t going to end well. One of the reasons for GW2’s explosive success when it launched was its massive content playable by the casual gamer.

Casuals outstrip hard-cores exponentially in nearly every gaming community. They spend plenty of money. Keep the game going. And don’t burn through content in a week. If this were not true, none of the MMOs would have catered to or made adjustments to their games to make them more casual-friendly. Yet nearly all of them did so.

Catering to hard-cores only is not going to work any better for GW2 than it did for Wildstar. So we’d all better hope this isn’t the only direction this game is going or there soon won’t be much of a game (or gaming community) to play with.

Monk Tank.5897:

Catering to only one playstyle has only one direction.
Down.
Straight Down.

According to that logic the game is going down since release because it was catering to a exclusively casual/relaxed playstyle.

Now we have difficult and easy content. Two playstyles. Shouldn’t it be going up again?

I agree with everything you say. I much preferred the casual laid back environment that was the core game. Now it feels as if I need a schedule to do most of the new content, providing I can find a LFG post that is.

As for raids it just feels as if ANet is driving a wedge between two very different play styles, and GW2, IMO, already has enough elitism.

In GW2, if I want to do casual, I have the entire core to do casual in. If I wish to do something a little more difficult, I can go to the HoT zones. Frankly, I’ve spent enough time in VB now that it’s starting to feel casual.

I don’t understand the problems people have with masteries. So far, they haven’t done much to slow me down. I haven’t found getting the required exp to be a problem.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The issue with what you’re saying here is that it flies in the face of developer comments that were previously made. Yes, they stated that HoT would have “challenging content” and they specifically stated that it wasn’t the open world, and then they revealed raids and explicitly told us high level fractals and raids were the challenging content.

Specifically, in the reveal the statement was something like, “You’ll see challenging group content that is much harder than anything you’ve seen in GW2 before.” The comment about HoT not being the ’challenging content" referred to that statement. See below.

Additionally, Colin has previously made statements that while they (Anet) does not want “everyone to have everything” there were components of the game that they felt needed to be readily accessible to the entire player base (yes, even the most casual of casuals). It was explicitly stated that open world and story where those components; however, the way open world HoT is designed, it does not mesh these previous statements.

I think you’ll find that the persistent world stuff is accessible to everyone. Yes, HoT mobs are tougher, but remember that ANet design worships the herd. Quantity has a quality all its own. What may be true is that HoT persistent world rewards are not accessible if a given player want to avoid the madding crowds and particle pollution, but that’s for the most part true in vanilla as well.

Granted, statements have been made (unsurprisingly, by Colin) and then reneged on before, so it’s not surprising to see it happen again. However, they really need to say something when they are going to do a complete 180 on their stance so fewer people feel jilted? slighted? lied to? However you choose to put it.

See italics, above… plus

HoT mob difficulty was established in the reveal, in the betas, and explicitly in the first beta announcement.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-first-beta-weekend-event-begins-august-7/

“Do you feel the need to use your entire skill bar in battles? Does teaming up with other players feel more rewarding? Do you find yourself wanting to change your skills and traits to overcome encounters? Warning—creatures will be more challenging than in the existing Guild Wars 2 world. (Note: This is not what we meant when we said “challenging group content” at the expansion’s announcement—we’ll announce the details of that in the future.)”

I’ll grant you that the greater challenge of Hot mobs is risky in terms of alienating some players. However, I believe there was adequate notification of the change.

Straylight.7529:

And what kind of 180 did they pull? Don’t you feel it’s a bit exaggerated to call it a 180? They said HoT is going to be more challening and that’s exactly how it turned out.

Though I admit I can sympthatize with the attitude of expecting some challening content while other stuff should remain readily accessible. But since HoT has only 4 zones I think it’s for the better that they made all of it challenging. Splitting up those 4 maps even further into easy/difficult would have been questionable. If they did let’s say 8 maps then making half of them easy and the other half difficult could have worked out. But with 4 maps? They had to make a call. And they chose difficult.

They said HoT would “have” challenging content. That’s not quite the same thing. Now, step back and look at it from the perspective of some of the casuals that where also aware of the previous comments about open world and story being the components intended for “everyone.” See the issue now? HoT open world is not precisely ‘casual friendly.’

I play casually, and I admit I don’t have an issue with having some challenge in the open world; however, given that I do play with people that are even less skilled than me, I can see where they are going to have issues. My husband in particular is probably going to make me pull my hair out in frustration.

Still, how can you not call it a 180 to go from “open world is for everyone” to “open world is now challenging content.” Different ends of the spectrum.

IndigoSundown.5419:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The issue with what you’re saying here is that it flies in the face of developer comments that were previously made. Yes, they stated that HoT would have “challenging content” and they specifically stated that it wasn’t the open world, and then they revealed raids and explicitly told us high level fractals and raids were the challenging content.

Specifically, in the reveal the statement was something like, “You’ll see challenging group content that is much harder than anything you’ve seen in GW2 before.” The comment about HoT not being the ’challenging content" referred to that statement. See below.

Additionally, Colin has previously made statements that while they (Anet) does not want “everyone to have everything” there were components of the game that they felt needed to be readily accessible to the entire player base (yes, even the most casual of casuals). It was explicitly stated that open world and story where those components; however, the way open world HoT is designed, it does not mesh these previous statements.

I think you’ll find that the persistent world stuff is accessible to everyone. Yes, HoT mobs are tougher, but remember that ANet design worships the herd. Quantity has a quality all its own. What may be true is that HoT persistent world rewards are not accessible if a given player want to avoid the madding crowds and particle pollution, but that’s for the most part true in vanilla as well.

Granted, statements have been made (unsurprisingly, by Colin) and then reneged on before, so it’s not surprising to see it happen again. However, they really need to say something when they are going to do a complete 180 on their stance so fewer people feel jilted? slighted? lied to? However you choose to put it.

See italics, above… plus

HoT mob difficulty was established in the reveal, in the betas, and explicitly in the first beta announcement.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-first-beta-weekend-event-begins-august-7/

“Do you feel the need to use your entire skill bar in battles? Does teaming up with other players feel more rewarding? Do you find yourself wanting to change your skills and traits to overcome encounters? Warning—creatures will be more challenging than in the existing Guild Wars 2 world. (Note: This is not what we meant when we said “challenging group content” at the expansion’s announcement—we’ll announce the details of that in the future.)”

I’ll grant you that the greater challenge of Hot mobs is risky in terms of alienating some players. However, I believe there was adequate notification of the change.

Yes, this was for the beta and then, as with the initial game, subsequent betas were tuned down. While I’m sure no one in their right mind expected HoT to be exactly what the core game was, in terms of difficulty (we did ask for a reason to use more than just 1-spam all the time), they might have taken it a wee bit far with some of the open world components. They have, essentially, made HoT non-solo friendly to a significant portion of players. We can’t seem to get away from the complaints about it, its all over the forums, and its all over the game anytime I log in.

Straylight.7529:

I believe casual players had enough content in the past three years. On top of it that very content they enjoyed so far is still out there. I think it’s a good move from Arenanet to cater towards people who want something more challenging. That is not a selfish point of view. I simply welcome the bigger variety when it comes to difficulty that is now present in the game thanks to HoT and wasn’t there prior to HoT.

I’m getting what your point of view is, but it is selfish and from a profit standpoint, makes no sense.

You are literally saying that casual players have been given enough over the past 3 years. I don’t know what I can say that I haven’t already said that would explain to you how nonsensical that is. This. Is. A. Paid. Expansion. For. The. Game. Not. A. Content. Patch. That means it’s supposed to sell and sell well, which is not something you can do very well by making a patch that is made almost entirely for a niche (albeit passionate) subset of gamers.

Also, Anet has never catered to casual play exclusively – just in large part. Tequatl, pre-nerf Orr (from what I hear, though I wasn’t playing during that time), Jungle Wurm. Heck, legendary weapons and ascended gear can hardly be called casual content.

Let’s review what was added with HoT and where it falls on the spectrum:

- HoT mobs (distinctly non-casual… have to be on your toes to survive at all and even then, very easy to die from a single mistake)
- HoT map completion and events (requires coordinated strategy for events and numbers for HPs)
- HoT story (fairly casual, with a couple of exceptions… end boss requires some skill and build planning – can’t really be zerged cause of reset)
- Strongholds and new borderlands maps (not much of a change, I don’t think… strongholds are new gameplay, but they are probably simple if you PvP a lot.. wouldn’t really call them casual or hardcore)
- Masteries (distinctly non-casual… though most of the masteries are not needed, the effort required isn’t small for someone with few hours)
- Elite specs (would be casual, except for the champ HP aspect, putting them more in the other direction)
- Scribe (requirements are super high from what I understand and the profession is bugged – hard to say how hard it will be without bugs)
- Guild Halls (requires heavy investment from a lot of people… not really made for casual investment)

Might be forgetting a couple of things, but I think this list covers the marketed features, for sure.

The only reason I’m not personally complaining more about this stuff is because I’m experienced at playing video games and on top of that, I have a hardcore mindset. I’m a bit of an odd one because I have that mindset mixed with not really wanting to play hardcore content, due to the level of commitment it involves.

If I was in the same position, but had a casual mindset, I could see myself feeling very disenfranchised with this game right now.

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

Your analogy makes it look like GW2 was transformed into an entirely new game while in truth it simply added new (albeit different and less casual) zones. GW2 will need many many more expansions before the “car” becomes a “truck”.

HoT is the present of the game. That is not debatable. If the continued expansion of the game does not include the casual gameplay we’ve come to expect, then the continued existence of the previous content is not relevant.

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

It’s possible they’re trying to pick up the massive Wildstar crowd with HoT, it’s a courageous strategy I hope it works out for them.

Why would we want to make GW2 into a game that failed horribly?

Personally, I’m dubious this move towards hard core raiding and the trappings of all other MMOs will work – and it will drive away the vast bulk of the population that played GW2 precisely because it wasn’t like those games.

IndigoSundown.5419:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The issue with what you’re saying here is that it flies in the face of developer comments that were previously made. Yes, they stated that HoT would have “challenging content” and they specifically stated that it wasn’t the open world, and then they revealed raids and explicitly told us high level fractals and raids were the challenging content.

Specifically, in the reveal the statement was something like, “You’ll see challenging group content that is much harder than anything you’ve seen in GW2 before.” The comment about HoT not being the ’challenging content" referred to that statement. See below.

Additionally, Colin has previously made statements that while they (Anet) does not want “everyone to have everything” there were components of the game that they felt needed to be readily accessible to the entire player base (yes, even the most casual of casuals). It was explicitly stated that open world and story where those components; however, the way open world HoT is designed, it does not mesh these previous statements.

I think you’ll find that the persistent world stuff is accessible to everyone. Yes, HoT mobs are tougher, but remember that ANet design worships the herd. Quantity has a quality all its own. What may be true is that HoT persistent world rewards are not accessible if a given player want to avoid the madding crowds and particle pollution, but that’s for the most part true in vanilla as well.

Granted, statements have been made (unsurprisingly, by Colin) and then reneged on before, so it’s not surprising to see it happen again. However, they really need to say something when they are going to do a complete 180 on their stance so fewer people feel jilted? slighted? lied to? However you choose to put it.

See italics, above… plus

HoT mob difficulty was established in the reveal, in the betas, and explicitly in the first beta announcement.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-first-beta-weekend-event-begins-august-7/

“Do you feel the need to use your entire skill bar in battles? Does teaming up with other players feel more rewarding? Do you find yourself wanting to change your skills and traits to overcome encounters? Warning—creatures will be more challenging than in the existing Guild Wars 2 world. (Note: This is not what we meant when we said “challenging group content” at the expansion’s announcement—we’ll announce the details of that in the future.)”

I’ll grant you that the greater challenge of Hot mobs is risky in terms of alienating some players. However, I believe there was adequate notification of the change.

Those ‘some players’ are 90% of the player base. They likely generate the bulk of the games income.

If they don’t like this change and leave, the game is stuffed. All the hard core people in the world won’t save it at that point.

Why do people feel that every single piece of content release should be made for or accessible by them? You people are hilarious you make it sound anet will completely stop making content that is easily accessible and focus mainly on raids.

Cletus Van Damme.2795:

It’s possible they’re trying to pick up the massive Wildstar crowd with HoT, it’s a courageous strategy I hope it works out for them.

Wildstar was an experiment in just how extreme you could take elitism in an MMO. They went miles beyond Wow and even Everquest 2 in the level of absurdness players had to go just to be considered average. It failed miserably and rightly so because it wasn’t fun and i seriously doubt GW2 is after that kind of community.

The UI and combat mechanics of GW2 don’t allow for the level of control required for some of the new raid content and unless they start allowing custom mods only a few players are going to be consistently comfortable playing it. Unfortunately at the same time the incentive to run dungeons has also been removed so the only thing left is fractals.

I agree with the OP 100%. I enjoyed most of the HoT content for what it was (though I’ve only done the VB/AB map metas), but I also think that ANet needs to be very wary of heading too far in a hardcore direction and losing what made their game stand out in the crowd of raid-raid-raid MMOs.

RoRo.8270:

Why do people feel that every single piece of content release should be made for or accessible by them? You people are hilarious you make it sound anet will completely stop making content that is easily accessible and focus mainly on raids.

I could care less what new content they add to the game so long as the rewards are similar.

Right now the only source of the new legendary armor will be from this one raid. This excludes almost all the casual players and as such makes them even more the second class citizen to the ever growing elitist crowd. They did the same thing when fractals were first introduced with the ascended backpacks.

We are not talking different skins here, and I can see how one would want to stand out for his accomplishments by having a “shiny cod plate of godliness” so long as it is only a skin. Once you venture into the realm of different tiers then it becomes much different.

Totally agree. with you OP. Well said.

Unholy, you hit the nail on the head for me. I feel EXACTLY the same. The new zones, the raid, WvW…Its literally like playing a live beta, where stuff is not designed correctly, not well though out, and/or just broken all to H E L L.

At this point, i feel my only reason for purchasing the HoT expansion is the Revenant class, and Tyrian Masteries. The rest of is just to difficult or inaccessible for any normal solo, or duoing couple to handle.

And the sad thing is, ANet won’t change this. They know the game offers something unique to the market, so why should they change?

Simply put: We need competition in this market. We need other MMO companies to look at how GW2 is built, and recreate it with better polish and thought. Either that, or ANet speaks up and starts making productive changes to the expansion content, that allows easier access to all types of players and at all levels. I’m not talking about the NPE, but we need something here to CHANGE.

I love this game. I don’t want to quit playing it, but every single evening that i log in, just gives me another reason to hate it. And thats not a productive mindset to having a fun experience!!!

It’s obvious that some people don’t want ANY new direction. But a game can’t stay the same and survive. For anyone that doesn’t care for the new zones you have Silverwastes.

To stay the same was to die out. Just ask the dinosaurs. Now that they’ve upped the challenge they’ll surely lose a chunk of casuals, but it will be better for the long haul.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

It’s obvious that some people don’t want ANY new direction. But a game can’t stay the same and survive. For anyone that doesn’t care for the new zones you have Silverwastes.

To stay the same was to die out. Just ask the dinosaurs. Now that they’ve upped the challenge they’ll surely lose a chunk of casuals, but it will be better for the long haul.

That only applies when the existing direction isn’t working. Whether the existing one wasn’t working is pretty much impossible to know, without being the powerpoint guy for GW2’s profit margins.

HoT maps have more to explore than any map in any MMO I’ve ever played. They are so in depth and large and involved that I really don’t see how that doesn’t cater to the casual explorer. The mobs are new and are level 80, and I think that’s why everyone feels it is so difficult. People are used to being level 80s down-leveled into a low level map and rolling through everything like it was a joke. Stack and burn, etc.

Now there are new zones that are designed as actual end-game zones, where you can’t literally run through, pull anything you want and burn it down with a few skill clicks.

But is it actually difficult? Not really. Not when you learn what each enemy does. Which ones jump at you to knock you back. Which ones evade range. Which ones use reflect skills, which ones drop AoE, etc. As time goes on you adapt to it and know exactly what you are engaging before you blindly run in like you’re in Queensdale or something.

What many are experiencing is the contrast of content that you can run through mashing 1 while streaming movies and content that requires you to pay attention, utilize different utilities, alter your builds, etc.

What I can’t stand are the people who take their cookie cutter build that has been tried and true in core Tyria, change absolutely nothing, go to HoT, get completely destroyed, and then conclude the areas are too hard.

I feel most people complaining HoT is too hard has a) not changed anything about their build b) has not changed out any of their utility skills and b) not considered running any of the weapons that are out of their comfort zone.

Maybe your core Tyria train setup isn’t the way to go. Maybe as you get to each zone and you see what sort of enemies you’re up against you have to dust off one of the specialization lines you never use so you have access to more condition removal or something.

This play how I want slogan has gotten completely out of hand. “Wait, I might have to rethink my build and maybe use other weapons to utilize different abilities? BUT I DON’T WANT TO! WHAT HAPPENED TO PLAY HOW I WANT! ANET IS A BUNCH OF LIARS! THIS GAME IS TERRIBLE NOW!”

Sytherek.7689:

Straylight.7529:

But HoT didn’t modify GW2. The casual Guild Wars you’re looking for didn’t vanish. It’s still out there. Go play in any of the core zones and you’ll find them as casual as ever.

This is exactly how I’m playing. I like my characters, enjoy refining them, travelling. If I want stress, I’ll deal with real world stuff.

I just feel like I wasted money on HoT, and am making sure ANET knows I won’t be buying any future expansions like it.

(emphasis mine)

This, to me, is the most salient point in the whole thread. Does Anet really care if casual players buy the next expansion? If they do, they need to change HoT open world to be closer to core Tyria in terms of difficulty and stress.

If Anet decides the casual player base is not large enough to cater to, then that is their privilege. I would find it disappointing, but they are a business, after all.

It is good for everyone to voice their concerns either way, but it is most important that everyone vote with their money and their time.

(And to be clear: I am in favor of challenging raids and fractals. I think hardcore players should be catered too as well—just not in the open world.)

The new direction that bothers me is this emphasis on platforming skills. I would have preferred 12 flat maps to the 4 multilayered maps. Enough with the bouncing mushrooms and the Nintendo minigames.

Right cause bouncing mushrooms need platforming skills to use. °3°

So I just wrote a whole long response and then accidentally deleted it all, so I’ll just give you the tl;dr…

First: bias acknowledgement. I’m a long time MMO player and definitely on the more “hardcore” side of GW2. I raided in WoW and I plan to raid in GW2 and am always looking for a challenge.

1. HoT strikes a balance between casual and hardcore play.
– Event completion is rewarded incrementally so you can play for 15 minutes in VB,
completing random smaller events and still get the bonus map chests that pop up
every so often, without needing to complete the meta event.
– Meta events are now much more accessible to casual players as they succeed
almost 100% of the time, and are designed to not fail if several players don’t know
how to complete the event/aren’t contributing a lot of dps.
2. Not all content should be casual, and not all content should be hardcore.
– It’s hard to keep in mind that the more hardcore players have been asking for more
challenging content for a long long time (and now finally we have more challenging
maps and a raid!). Their voice just isn’t as loud as they make up a smaller portion of
the player-base (though not insignificant).
– Casual players shouldn’t expect that every single piece of content be tuned for them
just as hardcore players don’t expect that every single piece of content be tuned for
them. Not every vista or poi requires a boss kill before you get it. XD
3. Just because someone completes content faster than you do, doesn’t mean it’s too hard/not accessible to you (i.e. Masteries)
– The mastery system was designed to take time. You choose what you want to work on,
when you want to work on it, and essentially all content, if it is gated at all, is gated
behind only the first tier or two of each mastery line. Even for the most casual player,
those masteries should only take a few days to get them all.
– I’m currently sitting at around 38 mastery points. I consider myself a hardcore player.
Take that as you will. (Rip fractals exp)
4. Raids
– Anet designed raids with a much small portion of the GW2 population in mind, and
this content is tuned for that population. The expectation to be a casual player and a
raider is unfounded.
– Anet has a dedicated raid team working on raids. They are not taking any effort out of
designing more casual content, and the fact that raids exist shouldn’t make anybody
feel threatened.
5. Legendary Armor
– Legendary armor is simply a re-skin of ascended armor. It provides no stat upgrades
over armor that is accessible outside of raids.
– Ascended armor is already incredibly difficult to get. Why would legendary armor be
any easier?
– The stat upgrade provided from a full set of ascended/legendary armor over a full set of
exotic armor is only about 5-10%. This will be barely noticeable by the casual player
and much more noticeable in a raid setting.
– The legendary weapons are already gated by other content (Gift of Mastery anyone?).
You literally have no choice but to play WvW, and receive 100% map completion in
order to craft one. And frankly, the gold gate is much higher than the raid gate for the
legendary armor.

Hopefully this allows people to see the HoT content in a bit of a different way, and see if that helps with their enjoyment. There really is so much to do in this game so if something isn’t fun for you, seriously just go find something else that is. Or just ask for help. The GW2 community is one of the most friendly and engaging MMO communities I’ve ever been a part of. If anyone want suggestions of things to do as a casual player or has questions about content, I’m totally willing to help you out! GL and HF ya’ll.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

It’s obvious that some people don’t want ANY new direction. But a game can’t stay the same and survive. For anyone that doesn’t care for the new zones you have Silverwastes.

To stay the same was to die out. Just ask the dinosaurs. Now that they’ve upped the challenge they’ll surely lose a chunk of casuals, but it will be better for the long haul.

Yeah, they definitely will. And then, the game will be left to the 100k hardcore players, and you guys can fund the game. I’m sure that will go over well at ANet HQ…

I dislike the new direction and they def need a way to get legendary armor out side raids and the exp grind is worse than any other mmorpg i ever played. It’s just not fun complete a event and you might see your exp bar move a cm maybe.. Game will become just like all the others now log into guild hall on raid day /time then log out when done .. Good luck getting them ppl to buy gems !

I don’t believe it was “well known” that the expansion was going to be harder than the core game. It was well known only to the minority who followed the various pre-release announcements. Most people don’t follow the forums and don’t read press releases. I think most players would assume that the expansion was more of the same. “Hey, I like this game and now there is more of it to buy. Cool!”. So it’s hardly surprising that a bunch of players are now shocked at the difficulty level. Telling someone who has paid for the expansion that they should stick to the non-expansion stuff if they can’t cope is, frankly, absurd.

Anet have missed the sweet spot imo.

The OP stated an opinion. Other posters stated their opinions. All are opinions.

To my rant;

If you post "we’, please stop it. If you are in fact Royalty, my apologies, continue saying, “we”

Please stop posting as if you speak for a majority view ie

“we, they, you’se guys, us guys, etc rubbish as fact, unless of course you link it to the comprehensive data you are basing the claims on.

Please just post your opinion and let it stand, making 50 posts to a thread just counts as one opinion posted many times.

Thank you.

The game had an expansion, I am still playing it and will likely buy gems if something is for sale I wish to purchase. Good Luck all.

DoctorDing.5890:

I don’t believe it was “well known” that the expansion was going to be harder than the core game.

The statements they did make ahead of time about the “challenging content” were extremely vague and not ideal for making buying decisions.

There were many things no one could have predicted that changed from the core game and “mobs will be more challenging” simply doesn’t cover all of it.

DoctorDing.5890:

I don’t believe it was “well known” that the expansion was going to be harder than the core game. It was well known only to the minority who followed the various pre-release announcements. Most people don’t follow the forums and don’t read press releases. I think most players would assume that the expansion was more of the same. “Hey, I like this game and now there is more of it to buy. Cool!”. So it’s hardly surprising that a bunch of players are now shocked at the difficulty level. Telling someone who has paid for the expansion that they should stick to the non-expansion stuff if they can’t cope is, frankly, absurd.

Anet have missed the sweet spot imo.

That only a minority followed the announcements is completely irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is the fact that the information about the increase in difficulty was made openly available by Arenanet for nine months prior to launch. There is no excuse for not knowing that HoT was going to be more difficult. If you wanted to find out, you could find out.

If advertising their own expansion as more challenging than the original Guild Wars 2 is not enough.. then what is enough? If someone can’t even be bothered to inform him/herself before the purchase of a product then I guess the next step would be Arenanet starting to distribute personalized newsletters by email to make sure that each and every player gets the memo.

Straylight.7529:

DoctorDing.5890:

I don’t believe it was “well known” that the expansion was going to be harder than the core game. It was well known only to the minority who followed the various pre-release announcements. Most people don’t follow the forums and don’t read press releases. I think most players would assume that the expansion was more of the same. “Hey, I like this game and now there is more of it to buy. Cool!”. So it’s hardly surprising that a bunch of players are now shocked at the difficulty level. Telling someone who has paid for the expansion that they should stick to the non-expansion stuff if they can’t cope is, frankly, absurd.

Anet have missed the sweet spot imo.

That only a minority followed the announcements is completely irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is the fact that the information about the increase in difficulty was made openly available by Arenanet for nine months prior to launch. There is no excuse for not knowing that HoT was going to be more difficult. If you wanted to find out, you could find out.

If advertising their own expansion as more challenging than the original Guild Wars 2 is not enough.. then what is enough? If someone can’t even be bothered to inform him/herself before the purchase of a product then I guess the next step would be Arenanet starting to distribute personalized newsletters by email to make sure that each and every player gets the memo.

No excuse? Irrelevant? That’s a pretty black and white view. You may to take a look at the marketing materials again, maybe from not such a hyper-legaleeze perspective. Here’s the current Anet website regarding HoT http://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/#maguuma.

Nothing in there immediately screams to me “you will not be able to explore\play the same why you have before”.

It’s pretty obvious the primary marketing was feature push: the new elite specs, the new revenant class, the new mastery system, pvp, wvw, etc. The new zone was icing on the cake, and a big draw to try out the new specs\class.

I’m not saying they couldn’t have known or found out, you are absolutely right about that, but to be fair wasn’t really obvious either, at least not in the marketing materials. The fine print isn’t found out until you actually play HoT.

Nice detailed post. I’m a little concerned about the direction things are going as well; upon starting GW2 (coming from GW1), it bugged me that half our skill bar was decided by the weapons we were wielding – and that one skill slot was completely limited to a healing skill, and was the only slot where we could equip one – but I grew accustomed to it. Now, though, it has developed beyond that – skills are unlocked in very specific orders, and elite spec skills cant even be equipped without equipping the elite trait line. Customization and choice of gameplay (rewardless dungeons) are being swept under the carpet… =/

I agree with op in most of what he wrote. I dont need gw2 to be my second job. I just want to run around and have fun i the open world. And I dont mind the devs making hard content for those who like it. But dont force it one me, and dont charge me for an expansion with almost only what I consider hard content. Thats not encouraging me to spend more of my money on the game.