Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057:

So you’re saying that if you had to choose between a player who is a level 500 crafter, but has barely left Lion’s Arch, and a player who is not a level 500 crafter, but has beaten Liadri, every dungeon, every world boss, but does not own a single piece of Ascended armor, you would choose the former player over the latter? Good luck with that raid group.

You know that’s not what he’s saying.

The fact is that gaining Ascended DOES show that the player understands the game. They may not have played all of it, but if so then they’re doing their research and learning. Nobody that knows nothing of the game can just sit down and crank out level 500 crafting without leaving LA. Not unless it’s pretty much funded and controlled by a normal player, and I’m not sure why a player would do that.

Ohoni.6057:

Why buy a game if you want to put no effort at all into it? Better go watch it on youtube or buy a movie, those play themselves without any effort.

Why make straw man arguments rather than addressing what a person is actually saying? I couldn’t tell you.

Its just like the AR in fractals, it is there to make sure the players that reach the most difficult fractal 50 actually know what they are doing and played the easier versions of it before.

No it isn’t, it’s there to make sure that players don’t reach Fractal 50 in the minimum possible time. It’s a content-extending practice. A player with max AR isn’t necessarily any better than a player with none. In fact, if I wanted to I could get a full suit of ascended with max AR right now, it would cost a pretty penny but it’s entirely doable with zero skill necessary.

Gearing is zero reflection of player capability.

Plus, ascended armor is no point in getting as the stats increase is so super small anyhow, and the rings and earrings which actually may matter, you practically also get for free with the daily login laurels.

Which is why it shouldn’t be a problem if gear scaling removes that tiny, “no point” increase.

It doesn’t matter whether I seem to think that there should be “endgame equipment” or not. There is end game equipment, that is ascended. Period. In a game where there is vertical progression which Guild Wars 2 is one, one of the end goals would be to obtain end game equipment i.e., ascended or legendary if you care more about the aesthetic aspect.

. . .

I’m sorry, have you ever heard of Guild Wars 2 before today?

Also there is no sort of. There is or there isn’t. Exotic is never meant to be end game. Just like rare, masterwork, fine, common none of which are end game equipment. Ascended is.

and yet Ascended gear wasn’t even conceived until months after launch. . .

Exactly. What the OP wants is a skyrim type of gear generation. ~ player.additem Eternity 001. Why work of the gear while you can just convince the dev to give you a console command to generate the items right?

Nope, that does not accurately reflect anything I’ve said publicly or thought privately.

but someone having 5% more stats is an indication of their statistical capability, so…

Again another trolling message. You purposely place a strawman a hypothetical situation here to be beaten down. No I would not have chosen either. Have full ascended is one of the many prerequisites. Beaten Liadri? Every dungeon? Every world boss? Please. Pieces of cakes.

You were claiming that having Ascended armor reflected a knowledge of the game that would be relevant to raiding. I was merely pointing out that having Ascended armor reflects absolutely nothing beyond that you have it. The primary method of acquiring Ascended armor is gold, and you can acquire that without any knowledge of the game.

Yes I know only rings came out 2 months after release. But the tier itself has EXISTED at that time. If anyone would ever have thought that they would only release rings and not the rest would have been delusional.

And yet ANET believed that at the time. They did not intend to every release Ascended weapons and armor until far down the line from there. If they had ever intended to release both, then they likely would have done so within a few months of launch, not a year later.

The fact is that gaining Ascended DOES show that the player understands the game. They may not have played all of it, but if so then they’re doing their research and learning. Nobody that knows nothing of the game can just sit down and crank out level 500 crafting without leaving LA. Not unless it’s pretty much funded and controlled by a normal player, and I’m not sure why a player would do that.

It requires no knowledge of the actual game’s mechanics. All it requires is that someone point them to one of the helpful sites that teaches the ideal crafting leveling mechanics. At most they would have to run a few world bosses for the account bound mats, but most of them are currently cakewalks. It is in no way a measure of being “raid ready.”

but someone having 5% more stats is an indication of their statistical capability, so…

Right, hence the point of the topic, that this statistical variation should be leveled out.

Ohoni.6057:

You were claiming that having Ascended armor reflected a knowledge of the game that would be relevant to raiding. I was merely pointing out that having Ascended armor reflects absolutely nothing beyond that you have it. The primary method of acquiring Ascended armor is gold, and you can acquire that without any knowledge of the game.

Perhaps, you should learn how read. Here is the original message:

No, but actually gear requires knowledge of either crafting and / or gameplay.

See? where you go wrong? Or should I point out? _ either crafting_ (which wouldn’t have anything to do with raiding, please learn to read)

and / or gameplay. hm, how would you earn ascended armors/weapons without having to craft? Maybe if you play the game yourself you’ll find out. I won’t tell you.

Ohoni.6057:

Yes I know only rings came out 2 months after release. But the tier itself has EXISTED at that time. If anyone would ever have thought that they would only release rings and not the rest would have been delusional.

And yet ANET believed that at the time. They did not intend to every release Ascended weapons and armor until far down the line from there. If they had ever intended to release both, then they likely would have done so within a few months of launch, not a year later.

You don’t know that. In fact they did intend the very release of ascended weapons and armors at the latest November 2012 if not October or even September during release. Do you understand the process or software development? Rings and Trinkets came out first because it’s merely a 2D graphic pictures of the items. When Ascended rings came out, which was planned before November, probably in September, the tier already existed. The reason why weapons and armors came so late because of 3D graphics, planning and all the software development process. Maybe taking CompSci 101 in college would help you understand how it works.

Ohoni.6057:

The fact is that gaining Ascended DOES show that the player understands the game. They may not have played all of it, but if so then they’re doing their research and learning. Nobody that knows nothing of the game can just sit down and crank out level 500 crafting without leaving LA. Not unless it’s pretty much funded and controlled by a normal player, and I’m not sure why a player would do that.

It requires no knowledge of the actual game’s mechanics. All it requires is that someone point them to one of the helpful sites that teaches the ideal crafting leveling mechanics. At most they would have to run a few world bosses for the account bound mats, but most of them are currently cakewalks. It is in no way a measure of being “raid ready.”

“At most they would have to run a few world bosses”? Stop and think about that for a moment. What would you have to learn in order to do that? They can’t do that at level 2, so they’re going to level some. Then they’ll have to travel. Get weapons and armor. Find out why they died when the fight happened, and what to do when they die. Then, how to fight and NOT die. And they’d still be gaining levels. They may not be raid ready by the time they’re done crafting, but even with the greatest of attempts to avoid learning about the game, they’re not going to be clueless about it either.

And then, they’ll have to get TO the raid. Oops, level 80 zone with tough opponents. They’ll need some actual skill to get there on their own. And gliding mastery, maybe more, right? That’s even more experience, fighting HoT opponents. Can’t avoid it.

By the time that “pure” crafter is at a raid, they’ll have enough experience to have a clue about what they’re getting into. Which is good, because nobody would do all that without reason, right? They wouldn’t craft that armor without knowing they’ll need it, wouldn’t head for the raid without knowing what’s there. Right?

Perhaps, you should learn how read. Here is the original message:

No, but actually gear requires knowledge of either crafting and / or gameplay.

See? where you go wrong? Or should I point out? _ either crafting_ (which wouldn’t have anything to do with raiding, please learn to read)

Yes, but we were talking about it as a prerequisite for being “raid ready.” What use is “knowledge of crafting” inside the raid? If you’re going to use owning Ascended armor as a qualification for playing raids, then the assumption is that the skills it brings would be useful in the raid, not just random crafting skills.

Do you understand the process or software development? Rings and Trinkets came out first because it’s merely a 2D graphic pictures of the items.

It did not take them a year to made the models for the ascended weapons, when they put out a dozen or so weapon sets in the same year. It did not take them even longer to make the three armor sets. Those things take time, they do not take remotely that much time.

“At most they would have to run a few world bosses”? Stop and think about that for a moment. What would you have to learn in order to do that? They can’t do that at level 2, so they’re going to level some.

At minimum? They would have to craft up to level 14 and jog over to Shadow Behemoth. In more practical terms, they could craft-level a handful of characters and park them at Behemoth, Wurm, Maw, and Fire Ele, and run those. I’m not saying it would be zero gameplay experience, but it certainly isn’t “this guy is clearly ready for anything a raid might throw at him” experience, which is the implication behind “if they have Ascended, then clearly they know what they’re doing and deserve to be here.”

A player could obviously have hundreds of hours more practical endgame-level content experience without having the wherewithal to afford Ascended armor.

I’m saying that the skills involved in acquiring Ascended armor are not necessarily related to the skills you would need to do well in a raid, and you could easily have one without the other. Do you disagree, or are you just arguing semantics here?

Ohoni.6057:

Perhaps, you should learn how read. Here is the original message:

No, but actually gear requires knowledge of either crafting and / or gameplay.

See? where you go wrong? Or should I point out? _ either crafting_ (which wouldn’t have anything to do with raiding, please learn to read)

Yes, but we were talking about it as a prerequisite for being “raid ready.” What use is “knowledge of crafting” inside the raid? If you’re going to use owning Ascended armor as a qualification for playing raids, then the assumption is that the skills it brings would be useful in the raid, not just random crafting skills.

You purposely leave out the other half of the sentence when you quote. See? Trolling?

Ohoni.6057:

Do you understand the process or software development? Rings and Trinkets came out first because it’s merely a 2D graphic pictures of the items.

It did not take them a year to made the models for the ascended weapons, when they put out a dozen or so weapon sets in the same year. It did not take them even longer to make the three armor sets. Those things take time, they do not take remotely that much time.

You don’t know their internal software development process. You don’t know how long it takes to make the models nor how long it takes to design and execute those plans. It would have just been on the table together with many other projects. It doesn’t nullify the point that they have planned it since the beginning.

You purposely leave out the other half of the sentence when you quote. See? Trolling?

Look, I get that you’re trying to sell this “trolling” thing because you’d rather I stop saying things that you disagree with, but that’s not how trolling works. It is not trolling to say things that other people disagree with, no matter how many times you repeat the word. Just get used to that fact and try to come up with an actual merit-based response instead.

Ohoni.6057:

You purposely leave out the other half of the sentence when you quote. See? Trolling?

Look, I get that you’re trying to sell this “trolling” thing because you’d rather I stop saying things that you disagree with, but that’s not how trolling works. It is not trolling to say things that other people disagree with, no matter how many times you repeat the word. Just get used to that fact and try to come up with an actual merit-based response instead.

In order to sell your point, you should not misrepresent the facts, which you have done quite numerous times. You should quote your sources at the least when it is challenged, which you have not done so.. Even on that last post you clearly purposefully leave out the half of the sentence in which is it relevant did you not? Perhaps you should try better

lmao arguing with the op is like arguing with a brick wall.

to sum it up “boohoo i can’t craft ascended gear cause all i do is RP all day but i want everything handed to me on a silver platter because i deserve it :’( lets nerf everything down to my level, kitten all those who ever worked for anything”

1. No, no stat adjustment. Because it will remove the whole purpose of getting better tier of equipment. And because ppl who put effort and a lot of gold will be angry.
2. If u can craft ascended then why did u start this thread in the first place? Others’ problems are not yours. As I see from your posts you just don’t want to put an effort to get in the raids and start to complain about “gating” thing.
Are you also complain about need of drivers license to legitimately drive a car? Are you also complain about need of certain skills and knowledge from employees to get the job?
In MMO gear is your drivers license.
If you don’t want to bother yourself with ascended then you just don’t want raids strong enough. Pass by, please.

You need ascended armour to progress through the raid.

No point complaining. Seriously. If you want to do raids, you’ll meet the requirements.

Heck, we might even find ways to clear it in exotic soon enough, but don’t demand things be changed to meet the weakest link. This isn’t the content for that.

Ohoni.6057:

Why buy a game if you want to put no effort at all into it? Better go watch it on youtube or buy a movie, those play themselves without any effort.

Why make straw man arguments rather than addressing what a person is actually saying? I couldn’t tell you.

Its just like the AR in fractals, it is there to make sure the players that reach the most difficult fractal 50 actually know what they are doing and played the easier versions of it before.

No it isn’t, it’s there to make sure that players don’t reach Fractal 50 in the minimum possible time. It’s a content-extending practice. A player with max AR isn’t necessarily any better than a player with none. In fact, if I wanted to I could get a full suit of ascended with max AR right now, it would cost a pretty penny but it’s entirely doable with zero skill necessary.

Gearing is zero reflection of player capability.

Its almsot impossible to clear swamp with first time level 5 pugs and now you tell me level 50 should let them just come in and screw up my experience. Why cant you accept there is content for less skilled and more skilled and experienced players.

Also you couldnt make an armor set or accessories with AR witouth playing any fractals. Which is good, because if I see you on my level 50 I want you to at least know how to run through swamp.

Now based on this thread and other threads you are either just a neat troll or just really a brick wall.

Good day to you.

One word to sums up this thread: Ohoni
At least he’s consistent…

Ohoni.6057:

I’m saying that the skills involved in acquiring Ascended armor are not necessarily related to the skills you would need to do well in a raid, and you could easily have one without the other. Do you disagree, or are you just arguing semantics here?

I disagree.

1. No, no stat adjustment. Because it will remove the whole purpose of getting better tier of equipment. And because ppl who put effort and a lot of gold will be angry.

Yes, and the “whole point of getting better tier of equipment.” should be removed, because that’s the game ANet originally sold us.

2. If u can craft ascended then why did u start this thread in the first place? Others’ problems are not yours. As I see from your posts you just don’t want to put an effort to get in the raids and start to complain about “gating” thing.

Because I can care about people other than myself.

Also you couldnt make an armor set or accessories with AR witouth playing any fractals. Which is good, because if I see you on my level 50 I want you to at least know how to run through swamp.

Sure you can. You can just make or buy Agony Infusions. You can make some of the Ascended backpieces without Fractals, and most with only minimal Fractal experience (or with the Mist Escences provided by rare rewards). All you’d be missing is infused rings.

I disagree.

Fair enough, but I don’t see how you could be right.

no thanks.

there is a reason why i built all of my ascended stuff and if there is one thing that this game doesnt need then it is more gimmicks.

Palador.2170:

Ohoni.6057:

I’m saying that the skills involved in acquiring Ascended armor are not necessarily related to the skills you would need to do well in a raid, and you could easily have one without the other. Do you disagree, or are you just arguing semantics here?

I disagree.

What about Legendary Weapons?

Warning: trick question

I wouldn’t mind guild consumables that would scale you up to ascended, just for the duration, so guilds can experiment freely in raids and people with no ascended armor can be taken into raids by just using guild stuff. Downscale however, no way.

A make all guild members full ascended stats for one instance-banner?

Ohoni.6057:

1. No, no stat adjustment. Because it will remove the whole purpose of getting better tier of equipment. And because ppl who put effort and a lot of gold will be angry.

Yes, and the “whole point of getting better tier of equipment.” should be removed, because that’s the game ANet originally sold us.

Too late now. Gear up or pass by.

Ohoni.6057:

2. If u can craft ascended then why did u start this thread in the first place? Others’ problems are not yours. As I see from your posts you just don’t want to put an effort to get in the raids and start to complain about “gating” thing.

Because I can care about people other than myself.

If you care so much you can help them with your gold or mats.

Look the only thing stopping you according to op from running raids in exotic is human nature. Well that’s a lame and huge assumption. I’m almost full ascended and only 1 piece off which I’ll probably get before raids, and if I create a party I won’t limit members to only ascended. Full exotics? No problem come on in as long as you can pull your weight (which shouldn’t be hard considering only knowledge of your class and the right build matters). Even if you die in exotics I won’t judge it based on your gear I would judge it base on your skill lvl, I won’t be going around saying oh you died because you didn’t have ascended. If a fully geared ascended player dies ill still say he sucks regardless. Don’t make the huge assumption that it is going to be full on ascended vs exotic wars in raids. People like me won’t really care, I won’t even ask you to ping your gear because I like to trust my party members. At most I would ask you what build are you running that’s all. Pls stop with this human nature bullkitten don’t assume things about the entire community. I’m also sure there are many others who feel the same way I do and won’t discriminate against exotics!

Every time I see threads like this…

ANet: “we recommend ascended equipment”
Hardcore players: “Raids are not meant for casual players”

ANet: “using full Berserker comps won’t work in our new content”
Hardcore players: "Well let’s just wait and see how the content is before we decide anything.

I honestly think the raid won’t be as hard as people are claiming. Sure it may take time, and a lot of trial and error starting out, but I trust my guild of misfits and casual players could do it with some practice.

You didn’t honestly think there would never be a gear treadmill in this game, did you?

Celtic Lady.3729:

You didn’t honestly think there would never be a gear treadmill in this game, did you?

There still isn’t…

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Yeah no, if you don’t want to put in the effort to get the gear then raids really aren’t designed for you.

Ascended gear has been available for 3 years now, if you couldn’t be bothered to get it then you weren’t going to bother to learn raid mechanics anyway.

Awesome logic bro.

Raids are designed for people who smashed their heads into this game for the past 3 years? Cool…

Yeah no gear grind! let’s just make everyone wear masterwork armor for raids with grenth runes and 4 bloodlust sigils!

Because catering to casuals that don’t know how the game works is the new thing right?

If you care so much you can help them with your gold or mats.

I have, from time to time, but I can’t afford to gear more than one or two people, that’s a minimal impact. I prefer to help make it unnecessary for ALL players.

From another thread but I think its important everyone sees how Ohoni thinks, do not let him influence raid design. He doesn’t give a kitten about raiding.

I’m concerned about the game as a whole, and part of that is in making sure that the raids pass the Hippocratic Oath, “First, do no harm.” I’m trying to make sure that whatever raids entail, they do not destroy the existing game.

You didn’t honestly think there would never be a gear treadmill in this game, did you?

It’s what was promised to us before launch.

Yeah no gear grind! let’s just make everyone wear masterwork armor for raids with grenth runes and 4 bloodlust sigils!

Because catering to casuals that don’t know how the game works is the new thing right?

That’s not really necessary, exotics are easy enough to get, it’s just the jump to Ascended that poses a problem.

But surely if you have no problem with dumbing down ascended armor to exotic then you wouldn’t have an issue with dumbing down exotic to masterwork.

Oh, that’s right, you would. I forgot, it’s okay to minimize some peoples accomplishments in this game but not others.

Ohoni.6057:

If you care so much you can help them with your gold or mats.

I have, from time to time, but I can’t afford to gear more than one or two people, that’s a minimal impact. I prefer to help make it unnecessary for ALL players.

From another thread but I think its important everyone sees how Ohoni thinks, do not let him influence raid design. He doesn’t give a kitten about raiding.

I’m concerned about the game as a whole, and part of that is in making sure that the raids pass the Hippocratic Oath, “First, do no harm.” I’m trying to make sure that whatever raids entail, they do not destroy the existing game.

You didn’t honestly think there would never be a gear treadmill in this game, did you?

It’s what was promised to us before launch.

Yeah, but the thing is, dozens of things they promised before/around launch have since changed. They’ll continue to change in the future, too. If they deem that not enough money is coming into the game or players are slacking off, they will do what they want to fix this. Could be raise the cap, could be add another layer of gear, etc. Anything said about these things previously will become irrelevant.

But surely if you have no problem with dumbing down ascended armor to exotic then you wouldn’t have an issue with dumbing down exotic to masterwork.

I don’t really see the point to it. Are you really having trouble earning a full set of Exotic armor?

Yeah, but the thing is, dozens of things they promised before/around launch have since changed.

Perhaps so, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t push back when that occurs.

Ohoni.6057:

I don’t really see the point to it. Are you really having trouble earning a full set of Exotic armor?

I don’t see a point to your entire post and following arguments. Are you really having trouble earning a full set of ascended armor?

Ohoni.6057:

That’s not really necessary, exotics are easy enough to get, it’s just the jump to Ascended that poses a problem.

Speaking for everyone? Ascended are easy enough to get. There is no problem.

PopeUrban.2578:

Celtic Lady.3729:

You didn’t honestly think there would never be a gear treadmill in this game, did you?

There still isn’t…

Yup there isn’t a gear treadmill at all or wasn’t ever…. so… yeah…. yeah…

maddoctor.2738:

Palador.2170:

Ohoni.6057:

I’m saying that the skills involved in acquiring Ascended armor are not necessarily related to the skills you would need to do well in a raid, and you could easily have one without the other. Do you disagree, or are you just arguing semantics here?

I disagree.

What about Legendary Weapons?

Warning: trick question

When I see someone walk by carrying Nevermore, then I’m going to assume that they know what they’re doing.

Unless they’re a class that uses staff as a melee weapon. Then I’ll assume they’re someone that knows what they’re doing, and has a strange sense of humor.

I don’t see a point to your entire post and following arguments. Are you really having trouble earning a full set of ascended armor?

Not particularly, but some do, they cost around 10,000% of the cost of exotic armor. I haven’t heard of anyone who has a genuinely difficult time gearing themselves in exotic, so honestly it just seems like a straw man argument (though I know how annoyed people get when called out for frequently straw manning, and I would really rather not call them out on it if only people would stop actually doing it).

Ohoni.6057:

I don’t see a point to your entire post and following arguments. Are you really having trouble earning a full set of ascended armor?

Not particularly, but some do, they cost around 10,000% of the cost of exotic armor. I haven’t heard of anyone who has a genuinely difficult time gearing themselves in exotic, so honestly it just seems like a straw man argument (though I know how annoyed people get when called out for frequently straw manning, and I would really rather not call them out on it if only people would stop actually doing it).

You were the one strawmaning the other statement I just did the same. Ascended equipment are 10,000% cost of trash, but trashes are just trashes. Not so expensive and easy to get. I honestly prefer you stop using strawman (your comment on masterwork).

You said it yourself. There is no problem getting ascended. Cheese

You were the one strawmaning the other statement I just did the same. Ascended equipment are 10,000% cost of trash, but trashes are just trashes. Not so expensive and easy to get. I honestly prefer you stop using strawman (your comment on masterwork).

I honestly have no idea where you’re going with this one.

You said it yourself. There is no problem getting ascended. Cheese

No, I said that there IS a problem with getting ascended, because it costs several hundred gold. I said their wasn’t a problem acquiring exotic, because it costs significantly less. I’m not sure how you got so confused, it’s a pretty simple concept for most people to understand.

Ohoni.6057:

No, I said that there IS a problem with getting ascended, because it costs several hundred gold. .

There is NO problem getting ascended. It just takes time to craft Spool of Silk Weaving Thread because of daily reset.
Run a few dungeon paths (like ac, cof, se, ta) and you sould have gold to by mats from TP.
Or you can do Silverwastes (I didn’t).

Ohoni.6057:

I said their wasn’t a problem acquiring exotic, because it costs significantly less.

Of course it costs less. It’s starter’s equipment for endgame content.

Ohoni.6057:

But surely if you have no problem with dumbing down ascended armor to exotic then you wouldn’t have an issue with dumbing down exotic to masterwork.

I don’t really see the point to it. Are you really having trouble earning a full set of Exotic armor?

I really don’t see the problem with ascended, are you really having trouble earning full ascended?

Ohoni.6057:

I honestly have no idea where you’re going with this one.

I honestly have no idea where you’re going either. But the fact is you intentionally post incorrect information and put up strawman is so prevalent in all these threads.

You said it yourself. There is no problem getting ascended. Cheese

No, I said that there IS a problem with getting ascended, because it costs several hundred gold. I said their wasn’t a problem acquiring exotic, because it costs significantly less. I’m not sure how you got so confused, it’s a pretty simple concept for most people to understand. [/quote]

But there is NOT a problem with getting ascended. It does not cost several hundred gold if you play the game. Why can’t you understand a concept so simple that even children understand: you do the things you are supposed to do like a good child and you get your reward.

The one to Rule.2593:

Ohoni.6057:

But surely if you have no problem with dumbing down ascended armor to exotic then you wouldn’t have an issue with dumbing down exotic to masterwork.

I don’t really see the point to it. Are you really having trouble earning a full set of Exotic armor?

I really don’t see the problem with ascended, are you really having trouble earning full ascended?

Haha, it’s classic right? Here are his quotes:

Ohoni.6057:

Not particularly, [not having trouble getting ascended]

But then he goes a few posts later

There IS a problem getting ascended.

Classic case. He can’t understand the notion of non contradiction apparently. Or perhaps he can’t remember what he just wrote 2-3 posts previously. Or rather he intentionally twists whatever is the next available point he wants to make for the sake of making the said point forgetting his position entirely.

There is NO problem getting ascended. It just takes time to craft Spool of Silk Weaving Thread because of daily reset.

That’s not a problem either, if you just buy Damask pre-made and don’t consider money a problem, but money IS a problem, or rather not having enough of it.

Of course it costs less. It’s starter’s equipment for endgame content.

And, according to the comments the developers made leading up to launch, it was also the last set of gear you’d ever need for stats, because they did not want players to have to grind out better gear.

I really don’t see the problem with ascended, are you really having trouble earning full ascended?

Not especially, but plenty do. If you can show me actual players that are genuinely struggling with acquiring full exotics for their established level 80 characters, then I’ll agree you have a point, but otherwise you really do just seem to be trowing up a strawman argument here.

Note that we receive one free piece of Exotic armor per month, so even if you do nothing but log in each day you will have full exotics within a year or less (depending on RNG), and that doesn’t even count the materials, laurels, and other log-in materials that you could use to buy the rest (but which would take you decades to add up to the cost of Ascended armor).

But there is NOT a problem with getting ascended. It does not cost several hundred gold if you play the game.

I’ve been playing for three years now, thousands of hours in the game, 90th percentile in achievement points (and that’s without doing hardly any of the WvW or PvP ones), and I’ve only ever had one piece of Ascended armor drop for me, and another granted to me by LS s2 (and of course a handful of amulets). Anything else I’ve had, I had to make myself. Your idea of “playing the game” may be your idea, but it does not match up with plenty of other players who are “playing the game” just as much as you are, just in different places.

Look, there’s this concept that develops in childhood in which one becomes capable of conceiving of other people as being distinct from oneself, that their experiences might not be exactly like your experiences. This is a very important developmental milestone, and I hope that you eventually hit it, but in the meantime, just try to pretend that you believe this is possible.

Not particularly, [not having trouble getting ascended]

But then he goes a few posts later

There IS a problem getting ascended.

Do you have difficulty understanding what I did and did not say? I was asked if I, personally, had difficulty gaining Ascended armor. No, I am comfortable enough that I can get it if I want it. For me personally, it is not a huge obstacle. But overall, for the players at large, it is a significant obstacle, because many do not already have all their crafts maxed, do not have the materials stockpiled, do not have the gold to buy then otherwise. So to the game as a whole, it does present a problem. The distinction between what is a problem for me as an individual and what is a problem for the game at large should not be so baffling to process.

He’s fighting for the noobs who wouldn’t even be skilled enough to do raids in the first place, arenanet has said over and over that heart of thorns is for end game players, not somone who is just getting their first toon to level 80 and earning their first exotics set.

This is game is in dire need of end game content, sorry but fractals are just not enough and really aren’t that enjoyable, Dungeons I loved them, but they are the same predictable and easy encounters over and over again, yu have to learn a few mechanics, but not much. but now they are nerfing them into the ground and they have no plans to add more of them. Therefore, raids it is.

How do you know this is such a problem for the majority of players? do you have statistical evidence? if not then it’s all your own assumtions that most players cant do those things.

Yeah the new players shouldn’t worry about raids to begin with. I would suggest taking about 3-4 months learning the game first. That’s his entire point which is moot.

Ohoni.6057:

I was asked if I, personally, had difficulty gaining Ascended armor. No, I am comfortable enough that I can get it if I want it. For me personally, it is not a huge obstacle. But overall, for the players at large, it is a significant obstacle, because many do not already have all their crafts maxed, do not have the materials stockpiled, do not have the gold to buy then otherwise. So to the game as a whole, it does present a problem. The distinction between what is a problem for me as an individual and what is a problem for the game at large should not be so baffling to process.

Look, do you understand our points we’ve been making? New players will just need to play the game as normally until they are ready. In the process, which might take a few months, they will have more than enough for a full ascended set, possible 2 or 3. Then, at that time hopefully they will learn how to play the game properly, they will be ready to do the raid contents. Else, if they just farmed for their ascended gear and not ready yet, then they’ll still need to learn more about the game til they are ready.

Again the raid contents are not aimed toward new players, who just got their feet wet, got to lv 80 in the first week and fork out 10g for their full exotic set. They won’t be ready, until probably months after joining the game. At that time, like you said, they would have stockpile enough mats so that ascended is rather a trivial task.

Yeah the new players shouldn’t worry about raids to begin with. I would suggest taking about 3-4 months learning the game first. That’s his entire point which is moot.

I didn’t say anything about new players, I said players that don’t have full ascended, which might be new, or might be from launch. Stop assuming.

Look, do you understand our points we’ve been making? New players will just need to play the game as normally until they are ready.

But that’s an incorrect point, because I have been “playing the game normally” for three years now, and I still don’t have full ascended on even one of my characters. It would be possible for me to get it, but that would come at an expense, it certainly wouldn’t just happen out of nowhere as you seem to believe.

In the process, which might take a few months, they will have more than enough for a full ascended set, possible 2 or 3.

A few months? What planet are you living on?

Again the raid contents are not aimed toward new players, who just got their feet wet, got to lv 80 in the first week and fork out 10g for their full exotic set. They won’t be ready, until probably months after joining the game. At that time, like you said, they would have stockpile enough mats so that ascended is rather a trivial task.

A seriously flawed argument, because there will be some players who would be ready to raid in week one (from experience with other games), and there would be other players who have been playing for three years that might not be at all useful in a raid. You keep attaching practical value to things that do not have practical value, “owns full ascended” and “is skilled at raiding” are two traits which are, at best very loosely correlated.

And no, you will not stockpile enough mats for ascended after merely “a few months” of normal gameplay. Maybe if you are specifically farming it in an ideal manner, maybe, but not likely.

Ohoni.6057:

Do you understand the process or software development? Rings and Trinkets came out first because it’s merely a 2D graphic pictures of the items.

It did not take them a year to made the models for the ascended weapons, when they put out a dozen or so weapon sets in the same year. It did not take them even longer to make the three armor sets. Those things take time, they do not take remotely that much time.

It’s more than designing the looks, it’s the system to create the ascended armor/weapons that take up tall that time. It’s the whole package.

• Creating models
• Creating the system to craft (what mats, how much, how big of a gold sink)
• How much time should it take
• How do we want it to affect the economy
• How much stat increase do they want it to be

All of this and more is involved in introducing such a system which is why it took so long to get ascended weaponry and armor out into live after rings.