Guild Wars 2

Just a question for the up and coming HoT expac about the gliders. Firstly I think the more features the better so I’m happy enough we’re getting the gliders even though its just like Aeon to be honest but the thing I’m hearing and will make this cool new feature into a crappy joke is,

if the gliders can only be used in certain areas? Is this extreme fail content idea true? I honestly thought it sounded great the idea that I could use it at any high point in Tyria to have a glide and birds eye view of an area. I mean really, you can jump off a cliff in the jungle and glide but try do that at mount maelstrom and see your kitten later?

What’s the story line behind gliders? Is the jungle air the only air that can support something gliding? Is it just me or does this sound pretty crappy? I get the idea behind people trying to leave maps and glitches with gliders having access to areas they shouldn’t but if you cant add content properly don’t add it at all?

Sorry I haven’t seen a glider post along these lines and wanted to get other peoples thoughts?

It’s a progression system. They don’t exist to give free access to any area in the game, the idea is you invest XP into the gliding mastery to allow you to explore a map in a new and different way that can only be accessed from tree top to tree top. Travelling across the canopy then improves the jungle “feel”, especially as Maguuma is a more broken and open jungle.

As for the rest of the world, it has no need or purpose there than being cool. Yes it would be cool, but there are gameplay disadvantages as well like trivialising waypoints, breaking map boundaries, trivialising JPs.

On balance, as cool as it would be, I think their decision is the corrct one.

Randulf.7614:

As for the rest of the world, it has no need or purpose there than being cool. Yes it would be cool, but there are gameplay disadvantages as well like trivialising waypoints, breaking map boundaries, trivialising JPs.

I’ve seen the way gliders work in HoT, and there are very few places in tyria where you could potentially break the map by gliding around. Besides, gliding isn’t “fly around until gravity eventually carries you to the ground” it’s “fly around until your arbitrary flying meter runs out and your glider crumbles like a stale cracker.” There would be no trivializing waypoints or jumping puzzles.

The very same technique is employed in the mmo Aion where you can ‘fly’ only in specific areas but you can glide – albeit just above the ground – in all areas.

What anet did was employ AREA mechanics instead of game mechanics. Area mechanics are, well, area specific and are a gimmick. I hope that one day they see fit to make it a game mechanic for at least the normal gliding. Air vents or whatever are unnecessary in the rest of the world though I don’t know why they exist in that very specific area of maguuma in the first place, is there significant hot springs – I don’t remember any in maguuma – do the mount maelstrom magma chambers really reach that far into maguuma for geothermal venting?

Anyway, it’s just a gimmick to test out a couple new technologies, which is fine but limiting its scope makes me sad. There are so many fun glider places where you’ll just plummet to your death after you’ve been playing around in HoT for a while thinking “oh right… I can’t use it here… CAN SOMEONE RES ME PLEASE, I forgot about the glider not working here.”

Quarktastic.1027:

Randulf.7614:

As for the rest of the world, it has no need or purpose there than being cool. Yes it would be cool, but there are gameplay disadvantages as well like trivialising waypoints, breaking map boundaries, trivialising JPs.

I’ve seen the way gliders work in HoT, and there are very few places in tyria where you could potentially break the map by gliding around. Besides, gliding isn’t “fly around until gravity eventually carries you to the ground” it’s “fly around until your arbitrary flying meter runs out and your glider crumbles like a stale cracker.” There would be no trivializing waypoints or jumping puzzles.

Really? I sure could have used gliding in the JP that leads to a vista in that dredge cave when I first started out. Bypass that gate you have to open, gliding to the next section. Gliding from the top of a tower over to the stretch that lead to the vista.

Then there is the new JP in LA. People were discussing gliding in that area and one person was saying that gliding from the top of the lighthouse would allow someone to get to the puzzle.

I’m sure there are other possibilities that clever people could think of to bypass a JP and also break out of a map.

Randulf.7614:

It’s a progression system. They don’t exist to give free access to any area in the game, the idea is you invest XP into the gliding mastery to allow you to explore a map in a new and different way that can only be accessed from tree top to tree top. Travelling across the canopy then improves the jungle “feel”, especially as Maguuma is a more broken and open jungle.

As for the rest of the world, it has no need or purpose there than being cool. Yes it would be cool, but there are gameplay disadvantages as well like trivialising waypoints, breaking map boundaries, trivialising JPs.

On balance, as cool as it would be, I think their decision is the corrct one.

Sorry, but to me, it sounds like a big fail… gliders are neat idea that falls short if they can only be used in the expansion maps. Allowing players to re-explore the rest of the map via the air is a great opportunity to breathe new life into aging content. New dimensions could be added to the jumping puzzles, strange shifting wind currents, heat and cold effective lift and hang times… so many possibilities.

If you are completing expansion content, and progressing glider mastery… then most of the WP’s on the rest of the map are going to be somewhat trivialized already and again, always room for new dynamics to be put in play…

Invisible walls already exist in most places to enforce map boundries, I don’t really see it being terrible difficult to implement something like the “strong current” warning and teleporting system employed in the water.

I am sure there is a better solution fo JP’s other then just disabling the glider mastery on the vast majority of maps.

Limiting their usage to only a few select maps kind of trivializes the glider… and makes them come across gimmicky.

XYLUM.7286:

Randulf.7614:

It’s a progression system. They don’t exist to give free access to any area in the game, the idea is you invest XP into the gliding mastery to allow you to explore a map in a new and different way that can only be accessed from tree top to tree top. Travelling across the canopy then improves the jungle “feel”, especially as Maguuma is a more broken and open jungle.

As for the rest of the world, it has no need or purpose there than being cool. Yes it would be cool, but there are gameplay disadvantages as well like trivialising waypoints, breaking map boundaries, trivialising JPs.

On balance, as cool as it would be, I think their decision is the corrct one.

Sorry, but to me, it sounds like a big fail… gliders are neat idea that falls short if they can only be used in the expansion maps. Allowing players to re-explore the rest of the map via the air is a great opportunity to breathe new life into aging content. New dimensions could be added to the jumping puzzles, strange shifting wind currents, heat and cold effective lift and hang times… so many possibilities.

If you are completing expansion content, and progressing glider mastery… then most of the WP’s on the rest of the map are going to be somewhat trivialized already and again, always room for new dynamics to be put in play…

Invisible walls already exist in most places to enforce map boundries, I don’t really see it being terrible difficult to implement something like the “strong current” warning and teleporting system employed in the water.

I am sure there is a better solution fo JP’s other then just disabling the glider mastery on the vast majority of maps.

Limiting their usage to only a few select maps kind of trivializes the glider… and makes them come across gimmicky.

This is my points, invisible walls, strong currents, icy winds etc. as for trivializing some jp’s so what if they do? people have to learn and advance the glider skill so why do they not get to use it? If you haven’t advanced your glider skill and your doing a JP that could be made easier if you had access to a glider with sufficient skill level tough luck? all the more reason to buy the expac and train in glider skills isn’kitten For me personally just the thought that realistically a glider plus elevation and air equals flying doesn’t apply in Tyria? Like I said originally it either applies to all of Tyria or is a failed content.

It would mean reworkng all the maps to apply the invisible walls, strong currents, icy winds, etc. it would mean spending time going over each and every map looking for way to break out of the maps and checking JPs from different approaches. All this would take hours of work and Dev time they currently don’t have. The reason the HoM bug hasn’t been fixed in months is because they’ve said the bug came at a time their resources were stretched to the limit (that expansion they are doing, you know). If they don’t have the time/manpower to fix that bug then they most certainly don’t have the time/manpower to rework all the vanilla maps.

Actually it doesn’t have kitten to do with any of that. You see its a chronological issue. Historically speaking your character isn’t back in queensdale, fighting the centaur menace. They already DID that. Back BEFORE you had the glider. New LA? Please, why are you going to go into the heart of the maguuma jungle, grab a glider, and then leave YOUR DIEING COMRADS to fly around LA. SRSLY

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It would mean reworkng all the maps to apply the invisible walls, strong currents, icy winds, etc. it would mean spending time going over each and every map looking for way to break out of the maps and checking JPs from different approaches. All this would take hours of work and Dev time they currently don’t have. The reason the HoM bug hasn’t been fixed in months is because they’ve said the bug came at a time their resources were stretched to the limit (that expansion they are doing, you know). If they don’t have the time/manpower to fix that bug then they most certainly don’t have the time/manpower to rework all the vanilla maps.

So in other words if it = work for devs to do right, then the answer is just rush through and half kitten it because gw2 players don’t care if they get half finished content, or design choices that make next to no sense… is that what you are saying?

Either do things right, or don’t do them at all.

XYLUM.7286:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It would mean reworkng all the maps to apply the invisible walls, strong currents, icy winds, etc. it would mean spending time going over each and every map looking for way to break out of the maps and checking JPs from different approaches. All this would take hours of work and Dev time they currently don’t have. The reason the HoM bug hasn’t been fixed in months is because they’ve said the bug came at a time their resources were stretched to the limit (that expansion they are doing, you know). If they don’t have the time/manpower to fix that bug then they most certainly don’t have the time/manpower to rework all the vanilla maps.

So in other words if it = work for devs to do right, then the answer is just rush through and half kitten it because gw2 players don’t care if they get half finished content, or design choices that make next to no sense… is that what you are saying?

Either do things right, or don’t do them at all.

In other words, they should work on this instead of getting the expansion out in a timely manner after people have spent $50 to $100 on getting the expansion.

Sounds good to me.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

XYLUM.7286:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It would mean reworkng all the maps to apply the invisible walls, strong currents, icy winds, etc. it would mean spending time going over each and every map looking for way to break out of the maps and checking JPs from different approaches. All this would take hours of work and Dev time they currently don’t have. The reason the HoM bug hasn’t been fixed in months is because they’ve said the bug came at a time their resources were stretched to the limit (that expansion they are doing, you know). If they don’t have the time/manpower to fix that bug then they most certainly don’t have the time/manpower to rework all the vanilla maps.

So in other words if it = work for devs to do right, then the answer is just rush through and half kitten it because gw2 players don’t care if they get half finished content, or design choices that make next to no sense… is that what you are saying?

Either do things right, or don’t do them at all.

In other words, they should work on this instead of getting the expansion out in a timely manner after people have spent $50 to $100 on getting the expansion.

Sounds good to me.

So are you guessing presuming the boundary’s are not in place as we have seen some are in the water regions or do you know this as fact? Do you know the work load or what is being worked on in regards to the maps and gliders or again presumptions? Is it in you/me and Anets best interests to release content that doesn’t make sense at all and has no storyline reason not to be implemented in the core maps? I’ve been playing since first beta and my GW1 account is 7 years old. I’m not looking at this from the point of a WoW fan complaining about it not being right. I’m looking at it as a wtf from a veteran perspective. Imo its no different to having zones that greatswords cant be used or a diving platform with goggles and an invisible wall stopping you actually jumping off. That is content failure to me.

I see it as getting around the map and hard to reach areas on said map. As far as other maps, I don’t think it will be a feature there. It kinda works like Aion in which certain areas let you fly around…on a limited amount of time of course.

CodeHavoc.7926:

I see it as getting around the map and hard to reach areas on said map. As far as other maps, I don’t think it will be a feature there. It kinda works like Aion in which certain areas let you fly around…on a limited amount of time of course.

That would be fine but I really disagree with the idea they could not be used in any area outright. Restrictions in game’s are not a positive thing in any excuse. If they are not restricted to zones think about how much they will add to the content ingame, people will be rolling every map looking for cool launch spots or they could be just a way of jumping from heights without dying in a few area’s. which will be more popular?

yakuza snowdragon.4639:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

XYLUM.7286:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It would mean reworkng all the maps to apply the invisible walls, strong currents, icy winds, etc. it would mean spending time going over each and every map looking for way to break out of the maps and checking JPs from different approaches. All this would take hours of work and Dev time they currently don’t have. The reason the HoM bug hasn’t been fixed in months is because they’ve said the bug came at a time their resources were stretched to the limit (that expansion they are doing, you know). If they don’t have the time/manpower to fix that bug then they most certainly don’t have the time/manpower to rework all the vanilla maps.

So in other words if it = work for devs to do right, then the answer is just rush through and half kitten it because gw2 players don’t care if they get half finished content, or design choices that make next to no sense… is that what you are saying?

Either do things right, or don’t do them at all.

In other words, they should work on this instead of getting the expansion out in a timely manner after people have spent $50 to $100 on getting the expansion.

Sounds good to me.

So are you guessing presuming the boundary’s are not in place as we have seen some are in the water regions or do you know this as fact? Do you know the work load or what is being worked on in regards to the maps and gliders or again presumptions? Is it in you/me and Anets best interests to release content that doesn’t make sense at all and has no storyline reason not to be implemented in the core maps? I’ve been playing since first beta and my GW1 account is 7 years old. I’m not looking at this from the point of a WoW fan complaining about it not being right. I’m looking at it as a wtf from a veteran perspective. Imo its no different to having zones that greatswords cant be used or a diving platform with goggles and an invisible wall stopping you actually jumping off. That is content failure to me.

I’m seeing it as someone who has read the post where they said they are stretched to the limit right now in getting out the expansion. So stretched they don’t have the Dev time to fix the HoM bug in under however many months it’s been.

It will take time to make the vanilla maps flight ready so that people can’t break out or make the JPs trivial or any other problems that gliding can bring. So, they have a choice. They can take people away from working on the expansion and getting it out as soon as and as bug free as possible and put these people on reworking all the maps or they leave them in place and get the expansion out. Most people here are going to want the expansion rather than the vanilla maps reworked so people can glide around. I would like gliding on vanilla maps, but I prefer the expansion out faster.

As too how easy it is, your post reminds me of the old saying, “The job is always easy for someone who doesn’t have to do the work”.

No Joke! Serious fun imo

Silhouette.5631:

New LA? Please, why are you going to go into the heart of the maguuma jungle, grab a glider, and then leave YOUR DIEING COMRADS to fly around LA. SRSLY

This made me laugh so much.

“See ya later, KittenLords. Mordremoth can wait, I got a JP to cheat in Lion’s Arch now my glider mastery is maxed out.”
“But Commander, Mordremoth is just around the next hill!”
“See my face? Does it look like it cares?”

ehm

I got to wondering if a lot of the new traditional jumping puzzle content that we might see in HoT will end up being covered, such as in a cave or with carefully placed collision foliage to prevent glider-cheats.

Before gliding ever comes to the core zones, Anet needs to make sure gliding will not break or trivialize these zones, as others have already said. Some jumping puzzles would be made a lot easier with gliding and I can see some zones being broken out of with the glider, if measures are not taken to prevent it.

It may well be that Anet intends to eventually bring gliding to most of the core zones at some point, but I doubt it will be possible on HoT’s launch. It will require a lot of map changes to a LOT of zones. This is not some simple task of adding invisible walls. They will need to check every JP, every hard to reach place, every edge to every map, and many spots inside the maps, to prevent players getting to places they shouldn’t.

So have patience. If Anet can make gliders workable in old Tyria, I am sure they will.

As to the idea of it being a fail, this is your opinion only. I do not think gliding is a fail if I cannot glide in core zones, because to me gliding is not supposed to be your common or garden mount. It is supposed to be a map progression system, which is not required in the core zones. If gliding is added to the core zones, I would hope that is because they add new areas that need the glider in order to get to then, not simply because players want to fly about.

I doubt Arena net cares about breaking the map or trivilizing the previous. I think they just don’t want non-HOT players to expect they will be getting gliders. By making it HOT only they is a more justifiable reason why the old content doesn’t have gliders.

I think that they’re a great mobility-enhancement option that isn’t mounts.

Easy:

Gliders = awesome. No question about it.

They would have to repath the entire continent of the core maps if they allowed gliding in core. That’s a lot of work for a trivial amount of enjoyment.

Gliders… GW2 vehicles.

Works for me.

one of the most awesome aspects of the game to me is to jump from a high point, so well just for this reason alone it is already awesome. We need a basejumping mode in the jungle. would be nice if there were some sort of a lake at the bottom :-)

PlatinumMember.5274:

I doubt Arena net cares about breaking the map or trivilizing the previous. I think they just don’t want non-HOT players to expect they will be getting gliders. By making it HOT only they is a more justifiable reason why the old content doesn’t have gliders.

Theres no reason the NPC selling gliders or glider skills couldn’t be on a HoT map. Stops access for anyone that hasn’t bought the expac so not much a=of an argument really.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Quarktastic.1027:

Randulf.7614:

As for the rest of the world, it has no need or purpose there than being cool. Yes it would be cool, but there are gameplay disadvantages as well like trivialising waypoints, breaking map boundaries, trivialising JPs.

I’ve seen the way gliders work in HoT, and there are very few places in tyria where you could potentially break the map by gliding around. Besides, gliding isn’t “fly around until gravity eventually carries you to the ground” it’s “fly around until your arbitrary flying meter runs out and your glider crumbles like a stale cracker.” There would be no trivializing waypoints or jumping puzzles.

Really? I sure could have used gliding in the JP that leads to a vista in that dredge cave when I first started out. Bypass that gate you have to open, gliding to the next section. Gliding from the top of a tower over to the stretch that lead to the vista.

Then there is the new JP in LA. People were discussing gliding in that area and one person was saying that gliding from the top of the lighthouse would allow someone to get to the puzzle.

I’m sure there are other possibilities that clever people could think of to bypass a JP and also break out of a map.

The Metrica Province JP too. Would be super handy.

Well, I can see it now.
“The City Authorities, in order to enforce health and safety regime requires all users of gliders to register their use, to the sum of 1 gold a minute, while using these unregulated articles in the city. "

“Rata Sum is organising a glide from the top competition, we have provided golems to test your skills at evading enemies, use our powered Air Veteran Elemental Gliders (AVEG), four wings are better than two! These short and stubby wings are high tech conversions based on the insect world. For extra gold you can even make a buzzing sound that will inspire all Bokkahs. Just avoid too much wear on the shields holding the Air Veteran Elemental, otherwise it will escape, and gravity is the least of your worries then”

And, are you really sure you want to glide in FrostGorge and become a mid-air snack for Journmag?

Byakhee.8652:

Well, I can see it now.
“The City Authorities, in order to enforce health and safety regime requires all users of gliders to register their use, to the sum of 1 gold a minute, while using these unregulated articles in the city. "

“Rata Sum is organising a glide from the top competition, we have provided golems to test your skills at evading enemies, use our powered Air Veteran Elemental Gliders (AVEG), four wings are better than two! These short and stubby wings are high tech conversions based on the insect world. For extra gold you can even make a buzzing sound that will inspire all Bokkahs. Just avoid too much wear on the shields holding the Air Veteran Elemental, otherwise it will escape, and gravity is the least of your worries then”

And, are you really sure you want to glide in FrostGorge and become a mid-air snack for Journmag?

Doesn’t it sound fun though? Exploring Mount Maelstrom and seeing an event in the distance and gliding down to attack and join in? As it stands double clicking the closest Waypoint and looking at a loading screen is the only alternative to running and being to late for the event. Wahoo come on people this thread isn’t about (its too hard to implement) its about what would be more fun for everyone playing?

I thought hang gliding was fun and helpful in the beta I did.

I think all maps after this date, must be compatible with gliders.
Actually they can allow it on older maps too. As an easy fix, they can make gliders force-close themselves if users try to fly over jumping puzzles. Or they can somehow redesign jumping puzzles to be compatible with gliders. It can be boring if they only work on maguuma just because of these jumping puzzles.
After having a break with GW2, and playing Archeage for a while, I miss usefulness of gliders and mounts while roaming the world. OK, mounts won’t come to this game, but at least please bring gliders to all pve maps.

XYLUM.7286:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It would mean reworkng all the maps to apply the invisible walls, strong currents, icy winds, etc. it would mean spending time going over each and every map looking for way to break out of the maps and checking JPs from different approaches. All this would take hours of work and Dev time they currently don’t have. The reason the HoM bug hasn’t been fixed in months is because they’ve said the bug came at a time their resources were stretched to the limit (that expansion they are doing, you know). If they don’t have the time/manpower to fix that bug then they most certainly don’t have the time/manpower to rework all the vanilla maps.

So in other words if it = work for devs to do right, then the answer is just rush through and half kitten it because gw2 players don’t care if they get half finished content, or design choices that make next to no sense… is that what you are saying?

Either do things right, or don’t do them at all.

If it’s too much work to do right you mean. Everything is work. Anet could put every dev on right now, trying ot make water look better, but it wouldn’t positively affect the game. The fact is, no one really knows how much work it is or how hard it till take to allow gliders to let you go through old content.

It’s entirely possible that the amount of work would be prohibitive to making new stuff. What if Anet has people working on all sorts of new content that’s actually updated to make use of the gliders, instead of making it compatible with old content which most people have been playing for 3 years.

This isn’t a question of laziness. It’s a question of limited resources vs. the reward for putting time into code.

You’re making the assumption most players would rather have that than more new areas. Or more masteries. Or more story.

And I don’t think that’s true. And I do think it would be a tremendous amount of work and take a very long time.

Just to put this here. When maxing out hang gliding, at least in the beta if you looked at it, as you couldn’t actually max it out. The final levels says that it removes the endurance bar so you glide for as long as you don’t touch the ground

Lol different air in the jungle XD

Every single argument so far assumes that you can glide UP after you started. Gliding doesn’t work that way unless there are thermals available, you always glide DOWN – it’s that thing called gravity… As far as I’m aware, the only thermals in gw2 are in HoT, as confusing as that is.

All of the maps have invisible walls, gliders wont trivialize anything as my WALKING character can already break out of most of them with the skills and jumping available to me.

What allowing gliders will do is allow me to glide around getting a nice birds eye view of the areas that I’ve already explored. Some jumping puzzles will be interesting for those who have complete control over their gliding character allowing some new options for speed running the JP. Another thing that it’ll allow me to do is avoid dying if I’m fast enough with the controls when I fall off of a PVE map cliff.

Steam golem platform after FE is above the reactor, I would love to jump off that and glide around the area. There are a few jumping puzzles that are way above the ground that I would love to glide from. Most of the mount maelstrom area can be broken out of and has some nice high areas you could jump from, the ulgoth area in harathi can also be broken out of quite easily and leads to some really high areas that would be neat gliding areas.

Nothing needs to be reworked, they just have to allow you to do it in the core maps (it’s probably just an IF statement in the first place).

Trivializing PvE is an oxymoron.