Guild Wars 2

Not directly. But in pvp you need HoT classes to win, and now, in wvw to have the best stats for certain builds and classes you will need to do raids to aquire those specific stats, i.e trailblazers tirnkets oinly aquireable through HoT story and now raids (stats not availiable through laurels) So if you ojnly play wvw, like me, you will be at disadvantage to someone who raids often just because he plays PvE too. Unfair?

Name an MMO where an expansion doesn’t give you advantages? Pay to win has always meant to cover having to regularly spend money in the cash shop. Every time I see this I ask people, tell me what MMO is not pay to win by this standard? It’s ludicrous.

I’m not saying that though…
I’m more pointing out that we are forced to Raid to agquire stuff that gives unfair advantage in pvp (wvw) scenario’s, why arent these stats availiable via laurels?

Vayne.8563:

Name an MMO where an expansion doesn’t give you advantages? Pay to win has always meant to cover having to regularly spend money in the cash shop. Every time I see this I ask people, tell me what MMO is not pay to win by this standard? It’s ludicrous.

You really need to spot to repeat that same thing over and over. It’s lazy design to cater to the players that want progression. It’s bad in other game and it’s no different in gw2. It’s the exact same reason why we got CGI action filled blockbuster movie. It sell well in the immediate and it’s easy to do. It doesn’t make it good.

https://www.amazon.com/Guild-Wars-Heart-Thorns-Online/dp/B00ZSF6ZAG/

Here you go, 35 dollars special on amazon. Go buy it. Anet deserves it with every free thing they have given.

I do get what you are saying, but that is what expansions bring in a MMO. Why would ppl buy something that won’t give them additional alternatives for their characters build? And diversity gives us the opportunity to make stronger builds.

Soooo, take advantage of the special in amazon… but it, enjoy it and join the fun. ^_^

Thaddeus.4891:

Vayne.8563:

Name an MMO where an expansion doesn’t give you advantages? Pay to win has always meant to cover having to regularly spend money in the cash shop. Every time I see this I ask people, tell me what MMO is not pay to win by this standard? It’s ludicrous.

You really need to spot to repeat that same thing over and over. It’s lazy design to cater to the players that want progression. It’s bad in other game and it’s no different in gw2. It’s the exact same reason why we got CGI action filled blockbuster movie. It sell well in the immediate and it’s easy to do. It doesn’t make it good.

Nor does it make it pay to win. The argument isn’t good or bad. The argument is about pay to win. People tend to take words at face value but face value doesn’t actually give you a good definition of what words mean. As long as people use words that I feel are wrongly used, I’ll repeat it. And why not repeat it. Not one single person has given me an answer to the question. So repeat it I shall.

More to the point, pay to win, as a phrase was created by a specific purpose. If you want to take it literally all games that aren’t free are pay to win because you have to buy them to win. That’s paying to win. But that’s not the definition of the term and no one would use it that way, unless they were trolling.

You can argue if this set up is good or bad, but it’s not pay to win.

Play Maple Story if you want to see what pay to win really is.

I was under the understanding that currently raid bosses can drop ascended gear. Legendary armour isn’t in the game as of yet. I don’t understand the complaint here.

Also: power creep. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw )

Jhoul.6923:

https://www.amazon.com/Guild-Wars-Heart-Thorns-Online/dp/B00ZSF6ZAG/

Here you go, 35 dollars special on amazon. Go buy it. Anet deserves it with every free thing they have given.

I do get what you are saying, but that is what expansions bring in a MMO. Why would ppl buy something that won’t give them additional alternatives for their characters build? And diversity gives us the opportunity to make stronger builds.

Soooo, take advantage of the special in amazon… but it, enjoy it and join the fun. ^_^

Funny thing is i have HoT, i get what youre saying but it was a waste of time reading it.
HoT brings content, why have this pretty big part tied to raiding(pretty essential for WvW people), to hide the fact that there is actually no real reason to raid? that shows lazy design and poor thought then if its only benefit is having access to the best stats for amulets and trinkets. Does anet not understand that people play this game for more then pve… its not helping their case, i am still not raiding its just putting me off playing; encountering people who do not main wvw who have complete gear setups that i cannot, because i am not comfortable with being forced to play somthing and do not agree with it. Having played wvw since release as my maiun content this sudden big advantage to people who play pve+wvw has arisen and its rediculous.

We get CGI movies because they are pay to win?
Because they sell well and are easy to make?
Pretty sure one of those statements doesn’t make any sense and the other one isn’t true.

There was a thread a bit ago saying if you’d made an elite version of something because you’d bought HoT you were OP in PvP and that was P2W. I think I used all those properly. Then there was a second post that said “if you are being beaten by an elite you aren’t PvPing properly”. But that might all have been forum PvP.

Your problem is you only play wvw and want everything to be available with laurels. As that would impact the other game modes I think it’s unlikely that you’ll get those stats in the laurel vendor. Not until the next expansion at least but who knows.

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Jhoul.6923:

https://www.amazon.com/Guild-Wars-Heart-Thorns-Online/dp/B00ZSF6ZAG/

Here you go, 35 dollars special on amazon. Go buy it. Anet deserves it with every free thing they have given.

I do get what you are saying, but that is what expansions bring in a MMO. Why would ppl buy something that won’t give them additional alternatives for their characters build? And diversity gives us the opportunity to make stronger builds.

Soooo, take advantage of the special in amazon… but it, enjoy it and join the fun. ^_^

Funny thing is i have HoT, i get what youre saying but it was a waste of time reading it.
HoT brings content, why have this pretty big part tied to raiding(pretty essential for WvW people), to hide the fact that there is actually no real reason to raid? that shows lazy design and poor thought then if its only benefit is having access to the best stats for amulets and trinkets. ’^__^ sarcy mor-on.

What will be a good reason to play?

There is non, drop the control, burn the computer and start traveling.

If not there are more MMOs in the world go find the one that makes you feel butterflies in your stomach.

It’s as if some people have never played an MMO that had expansions.

In GW2 there is no correlation between the amount of money you spend in micro transactions (RL cash → gems → stuff) and the advantage you have in the game over others. That is what PtW is, and that is not GW2.

HoT is an expansion. It is a one-time purchase that gives you more options in your profession; there is no ever-increasing amount of money to spend for an ever-increasing advantage.

Also, there are plenty of posts and threads about people rocking PvP, WvW, and PvE w/o using the elite professions. Given all that info HoT is not PtW.

~EW

Once again, another argument about the meaning of a commonly-misapplied and misunderstood phrasing. Can we instead discuss the OP’s concern, which can probably be translated as:

1. “Is it fair that you are less competitive in PvP without the expansion?”
2. “Is it fair that you are at a disadvantage in WvW without HoT?”
3. “Is it fair that you can’t Raid without HoT?”

I’d argue that the first two aren’t true: you have less wiggle room for WvW and Raids, but it’s relatively minor.

For PvP, based on people who have posted their experiences sticking to core builds (either by choice or because the account didn’t have HoT unlocked), it seems unfair to me. ANet said before HoT launched that “elite” specializations weren’t meant to be “better”, just different. It’s understandable that they are popular, since we’ve been starved for new build possibilities for so long, but it’s also clear that elite specs are, indeed, elite.

I think it’s reasonable that HoT or any expansion offer a ton of advantages over the previous game; I’m not sure it’s fair that it makes it nearly impossible to compete in the competitive game mode.

(On the other hand, it’s only 50 bucks and even a skinflint such as myself can afford that once every 2 years for something I play regularly.)

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

In GW2 there is no correlation between the amount of money you spend in micro transactions (RL cash -> gems -> stuff) and the advantage you have in the game over others. That is what PtW is, and that is not GW2.

HoT is an expansion. It is a one-time purchase that gives you more options in your profession; there is no ever-increasing amount of money to spend for an ever-increasing advantage.

Also, there are plenty of posts and threads about people rocking PvP, WvW, and PvE w/o using the elite professions. Given all that info HoT is not PtW.

~EW

It seems you too fail to notice the specific point i made that i do have HoT and im forced to RAID inside HoT …. for somthing that i need for pvp content. I’m fine wiht having to have bought hoT for thwe stats, but give them to us for doing wvw if we want them in wvw…

It’s not pay-to-win, it’s a choice. If one chooses not to spend the resource (time, money, whatever), one will not reap the alleged benefits.

Good luck.

P.S. I’ve never raided (nor do I use an Elite Specialization), and I still manage to further my Reward Tracks in WvW. I take down some ‘enemies’, sometimes I get taken down. Oh, well. It’s still fun (for me).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Once again, another argument about the meaning of a commonly-misapplied and misunderstood phrasing. Can we instead discuss the OP’s concern, which can probably be translated as:

1. “Is it fair that you are less competitive in PvP without the expansion?”
2. “Is it fair that you are at a disadvantage in WvW without HoT?”
3. “Is it fair that you can’t Raid without HoT?”

I’d argue that the first two aren’t true: you have less wiggle room for WvW and Raids, but it’s relatively minor.

For PvP, based on people who have posted their experiences sticking to core builds (either by choice or because the account didn’t have HoT unlocked), it seems unfair to me. ANet said before HoT launched that “elite” specializations weren’t meant to be “better”, just different. It’s understandable that they are popular, since we’ve been starved for new build possibilities for so long, but it’s also clear that elite specs are, indeed, elite.

I think it’s reasonable that HoT or any expansion offer a ton of advantages over the previous game; I’m not sure it’s fair that it makes it nearly impossible to compete in the competitive game mode.

(On the other hand, it’s only 50 bucks and even a skinflint such as myself can afford that once every 2 years for something I play regularly.)

I’m mainly arguing that its unfair that i bought HoT and only play WvW yet cannot access certain stats without raiding (trinkets amulets) despite the fact i will use them in wvw only as pve is predominantly zerker vipers, i am wanting marauders/crusaders/trailblazers equip for wvw.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

It’s not pay-to-win, it’s a choice. If one chooses not to spend the resource (time, money, whatever), one will not reap the alleged benefits.

Good luck.

P.S. I’ve never raided (nor do I use an Elite Specialization), and I still manage to further my Reward Tracks in WvW. I take down some ‘enemies’, sometimes I get taken down. Oh, well. It’s still fun (for me).

Yes, i’m sure its all good for you, but for others its an issue… and by the way-
“not pay-to-win, it’s a choice. If one chooses not to spend the resource (time, money, whatever), one will not reap the alleged benefits.” that is exactly what pay to win is.

I know this is a thread where we completely ignore the point of the OP and bash his use of words, but I figured i’d offer the following solution:

All ascended armor/weapons can be transmuted to any stats you want via the mystic forge. These raid only stats are available via the mystic forge without ever raiding. Similarly legendary backpacks offer these stats without raiding. I believe currently only rings and earrings can not be obtained outside of raids although they will add that in the future. This is the same thing that has happened with ascended gear for the past 3 years. They add it in one area of the game first then add other methods later on.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I know this is a thread where we completely ignore the point of the OP and bash his use of words, but I figured i’d offer the following solution:

All ascended armor/weapons can be transmuted to any stats you want via the mystic forge. These raid only stats are available via the mystic forge without ever raiding. Similarly legendary backpacks offer these stats without raiding. I believe currently only rings and earrings can not be obtained outside of raids although they will add that in the future. This is the same thing that has happened with ascended gear for the past 3 years. They add it in one area of the game first then add other methods later on.

Thanks, however i have everything apart from the parts i need from the raid :l as a matter of princible and the fact i dont have pve gear i am not raiding.

Vayne.8563:

Nor does it make it pay to win. The argument isn’t good or bad. The argument is about pay to win. People tend to take words at face value but face value doesn’t actually give you a good definition of what words mean. As long as people use words that I feel are wrongly used, I’ll repeat it. And why not repeat it. Not one single person has given me an answer to the question. So repeat it I shall.

More to the point, pay to win, as a phrase was created by a specific purpose. If you want to take it literally all games that aren’t free are pay to win because you have to buy them to win. That’s paying to win. But that’s not the definition of the term and no one would use it that way, unless they were trolling.

You can argue if this set up is good or bad, but it’s not pay to win.

Play Maple Story if you want to see what pay to win really is.

Ok I’ll answer your question directly then. Yes, most if not all MMO have pay to win aspect in them. It’s not the worst kind of pay to win, but if an expansion give you more powerful stuff, not balanced with the core game, it is pay to win. Some MMO mitigate it by segregating the player base between expansion owner and core owner. Usually this is more about PvP.

It’s not a on and off switch. There is varying degree of pay to win aspect to games.

Thaddeus.4891:

Vayne.8563:

Nor does it make it pay to win. The argument isn’t good or bad. The argument is about pay to win. People tend to take words at face value but face value doesn’t actually give you a good definition of what words mean. As long as people use words that I feel are wrongly used, I’ll repeat it. And why not repeat it. Not one single person has given me an answer to the question. So repeat it I shall.

More to the point, pay to win, as a phrase was created by a specific purpose. If you want to take it literally all games that aren’t free are pay to win because you have to buy them to win. That’s paying to win. But that’s not the definition of the term and no one would use it that way, unless they were trolling.

You can argue if this set up is good or bad, but it’s not pay to win.

Play Maple Story if you want to see what pay to win really is.

Ok I’ll answer your question directly then. Yes, most if not all MMO have pay to win aspect in them. It’s not the worst kind of pay to win, but if an expansion give you more powerful stuff, not balanced with the core game, it is pay to win. Some MMO mitigate it by segregating the player base between expansion owner and core owner. Usually this is more about PvP.

It’s not a on and off switch. There is varying degree of pay to win aspect to games.

Perhaps it may be pay-to win now. But when the next expansion releases, HoT content will be free. If everything goes according to expectations, upcoming elite-specs will be about equally as strong as the current ones. In that regard, one will not have to pay to be elite-able.

Razor.9872:

Thaddeus.4891:

Vayne.8563:

Nor does it make it pay to win. The argument isn’t good or bad. The argument is about pay to win. People tend to take words at face value but face value doesn’t actually give you a good definition of what words mean. As long as people use words that I feel are wrongly used, I’ll repeat it. And why not repeat it. Not one single person has given me an answer to the question. So repeat it I shall.

More to the point, pay to win, as a phrase was created by a specific purpose. If you want to take it literally all games that aren’t free are pay to win because you have to buy them to win. That’s paying to win. But that’s not the definition of the term and no one would use it that way, unless they were trolling.

You can argue if this set up is good or bad, but it’s not pay to win.

Play Maple Story if you want to see what pay to win really is.

Ok I’ll answer your question directly then. Yes, most if not all MMO have pay to win aspect in them. It’s not the worst kind of pay to win, but if an expansion give you more powerful stuff, not balanced with the core game, it is pay to win. Some MMO mitigate it by segregating the player base between expansion owner and core owner. Usually this is more about PvP.

It’s not a on and off switch. There is varying degree of pay to win aspect to games.

Perhaps it may be pay-to win now. But when the next expansion releases, HoT content will be free. If everything goes according to expectations, upcoming elite-specs will be about equally as strong as the current ones. In that regard, one will not have to pay to be elite-able.

HoT will only be free if you purchase the next expansion. Core-only players will not get it.

Ayrilana.1396:

Razor.9872:

Thaddeus.4891:

Vayne.8563:

Nor does it make it pay to win. The argument isn’t good or bad. The argument is about pay to win. People tend to take words at face value but face value doesn’t actually give you a good definition of what words mean. As long as people use words that I feel are wrongly used, I’ll repeat it. And why not repeat it. Not one single person has given me an answer to the question. So repeat it I shall.

More to the point, pay to win, as a phrase was created by a specific purpose. If you want to take it literally all games that aren’t free are pay to win because you have to buy them to win. That’s paying to win. But that’s not the definition of the term and no one would use it that way, unless they were trolling.

You can argue if this set up is good or bad, but it’s not pay to win.

Play Maple Story if you want to see what pay to win really is.

Ok I’ll answer your question directly then. Yes, most if not all MMO have pay to win aspect in them. It’s not the worst kind of pay to win, but if an expansion give you more powerful stuff, not balanced with the core game, it is pay to win. Some MMO mitigate it by segregating the player base between expansion owner and core owner. Usually this is more about PvP.

It’s not a on and off switch. There is varying degree of pay to win aspect to games.

Perhaps it may be pay-to win now. But when the next expansion releases, HoT content will be free. If everything goes according to expectations, upcoming elite-specs will be about equally as strong as the current ones. In that regard, one will not have to pay to be elite-able.

HoT will only be free if you purchase the next expansion. Core-only players will not get it.

I’m not sure about this. You could be right, but I have doubts.

Acquisition of certain stat combinations for ascended trinkets has been all over the place in this game. I would like to see more acquisition consistency across all stat combinations. cough jeweler cough

And for the love of god, stop gating stat combinations behind raids.

I really think you should not be allowed to edit the title of a thread once it has had a reply. The title of this one has changed at least twice, thus making some of the responses less relevant.

You know what? If ‘winning’ is your thing, stop complaining about it and get the expansion and do the content you need to get the stuff you want. If that bothers you that ‘winning’ the game requires some winning in the expansions, then you better quit this MMO and not play any others because that’s that hook to sell you. Those are your options. Fairness is hard to guarantee and I don’t think I’ve played many games that try to make that a goal … but you DO have equality; everyone has equal access to the things you say you want.

DoctorDing.5890:

I really think you should not be allowed to edit the title of a thread once it has had a reply. The title of this one has changed at least twice, thus making some of the responses less relevant.

Well some people litteraly read the title and started mashing their keyboards instead of reading what i said so yeah i had too.

Trepidation Lost.3469:

Not directly. But in pvp you need HoT classes to win, and now, in wvw to have the best stats for certain builds and classes you will need to do raids to aquire those specific stats, i.e trailblazers tirnkets oinly aquireable through HoT story and now raids (stats not availiable through laurels) So if you ojnly play wvw, like me, you will be at disadvantage to someone who raids often just because he plays PvE too. Unfair?

I disagree. Since the beginning of MMORPG, PvE has always been the starting line for every single players. Everything you earn in PvE are then used to boost your character strength which in turn you can use it to fight it out with others.

The only difference in gw2 is that it is so carebear that PvE is totally protected. In that case, they should give put some PvE runes only available via WvW to make PvE players work for it.

just make the pve stuff available through wvw rank or currency, problem solved

Vayne.8563:

Name an MMO where an expansion doesn’t give you advantages? Pay to win has always meant to cover having to regularly spend money in the cash shop. Every time I see this I ask people, tell me what MMO is not pay to win by this standard? It’s ludicrous.

The LoL NooBs know of an MMO that was not pay2win, noble Sir Vayne. It doesn’t have an expansion and it’s called Guild Wars 2. It was actually good. HoT is the name of a patch which killed that MMO and locked some of it behind a new game that is now pay2win.

If we should excuse HoT because other MMOs screw their players too, then how is this one any better now? Does it have actual new content that is worth anything? Everything good in HoT is what GW2 already was before it. Oh, and maybe gliders for girls (valid). But how is everything in HoT worth even $15, let alone $50??

What you like, Sir Vayne, the NooBs like too. But the NooBs will not be convinced we should spend our money on everything you choose to buy.

LoL NooBs.5076:

Vayne.8563:

Name an MMO where an expansion doesn’t give you advantages? Pay to win has always meant to cover having to regularly spend money in the cash shop. Every time I see this I ask people, tell me what MMO is not pay to win by this standard? It’s ludicrous.

The LoL NooBs know of an MMO that was not pay2win, noble Sir Vayne. It doesn’t have an expansion and it’s called Guild Wars 2. It was actually good. HoT is the name of a patch which killed that MMO and locked some of it behind a new game that is now pay2win.

If we should excuse HoT because other MMOs screw their players too, then how is this one any better now? Does it have actual new content that is worth anything? Everything good in HoT is what GW2 already was before it. Oh, and maybe gliders for girls (valid). But how is everything in HoT worth even $15, let alone $50??

What you like, Sir Vayne, the NooBs like too. But the NooBs will not be convinced we should spend our money on everything you choose to buy.

No we shouldn’t excuse HoT because other MMOs do the same thing. Nor should we apply the wrong words to describe what hot does. Pay to Win has always had a specific definition. It was there to separate legit MMOs from the non-legit ones. The MMOs that continually required micro-transactions to keep you relevant. That was the purpose of the word. Someone could say this game is pay to win or that game is pay to win and you’d know how to avoid it. The term served a purpose.

Now with the ever shifting boundary lines because players don’t get context, we end up with every single MMO is this way, which unfortuately not only corrupts the word, but makes it completely useless. If every MMO is like this then how do you differentiate the ones with toxic cash shops (the real problem) from games that come out with expansions (the way the industry is and has been for years now)? The answer is you can’t.

P2W has a definition for a reason. I can’t think of one good reason to move the bar and lose the definition…unless of course someone is just trying to troll, because that’s the only reason. If every MMO is the same, applying a word to describe them does no one any good, unless you think it’ll help change every MMO (hint..it won’t).

But there’s still a need to differentiate games with a P2W cash shop from more legitmate MMOs.

I’ll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-IACGTF3gw

You are right as ever, Sir Vayne, and the NooBs intend to meditate on your wise teachings. May we just have the exact definition of the term “pay2win” in one sentence (so we can have it printed in Wingdings and hung on our bathroom door)? Seriously, is it “The MMOs that continually required micro-transactions to keep you relevant”? Because we do feel rather irrelevant, including on this forum, and this MMO continues to require significantly more real-world money than what a “micro-transaction” supposes, in order to make us relevant again (yes, we had paid and we were relevant before HoT). And if it’s not pay2win, then what is the term that defines HoT in this respect?

Sir Vayne, we understand it is not your job to lecture the NooBs and answer our silly questions. We would be most pleased if someone with an ArenaNet tag in their nickname replied instead. But such an honor is rarely given to mere clients of the same organization we are expected to feed.

Of course it would be easier just to call us trolls and have a forum mod delete our nonsense.

LoL NooBs.5076:

You are right as ever, Sir Vayne, and the NooBs intend to meditate on your wise teachings. May we just have the exact definition of the term “pay2win” in one sentence (so we can have it printed in Wingdings and hung on our bathroom door)? Seriously, is it “The MMOs that continually required micro-transactions to keep you relevant”? Because we do feel rather irrelevant, including on this forum, and this MMO continues to require significantly more real-world money than what a “micro-transaction” supposes, in order to make us relevant again (yes, we had paid and we were relevant before HoT). And if it’s not pay2win, then what is the term that defines HoT in this respect?

Sir Vayne, we understand it is not your job to lecture the NooBs and answer our silly questions. We would be most pleased if someone with an ArenaNet tag in their nickname replied instead. But such an honor is rarely given to mere clients of the same organization we are expected to feed.

Of course it would be easier just to call us trolls and have a forum mod delete our nonsense.

P2W are games that require microtransactions to buy power. That’s the short of it. It never covered expansions because expansions have been around for years and years, each of them raising the level cap, each of them giving players a real advantage and no one ever called them pay to win. Every single wow expansion allows you to twink characters better. But no one calls WoW pay to win. This is the same with every MMO.

If anything this game is less pay to win because it didn’t introduce a new tier of gear or raise the level cap.

Weerus.3701:

I’ll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-IACGTF3gw

But, but, but… how dare you! To take away the ability to blame ones own incompetence on the obvious lack of proper stats…

On topic, I don’t see how trailblazer trinkets is gamebreaking. Only because you WANT something does not make it actually that desirable Where exactly are you going to be using it in wvw?

In big zerg fights? Yes, because those few stat points will make a difference.

Small scale roaming? Sort of useful but in general you’ll want a more specialised focused stat set or at least some more damage/tank splashed in depending on the build you are running (most often more damage).

1v1? Definately more damage to be splashed in.

Point being, while trailblazer is nice it is not the major reason (maybe not even a minor one) you will fail in any of those situations.

Not even going to get into the entire calculation of hitting the expertise cap (same as with vipers) which makes a full trailblazer setup pointless. I’m sure you’ve considered that in your complaint.

This thread is ridiculous. Someone is clueless about what RPGs are about.

The real solution is to make ascended tradeable. Which is what they intended at some point given it’s a category in the trading post. Problem solved.

As a mainly wvw player I still don’t have trinkets for all my mains and indeed stopped playing most of them rather than face the ascended grind.

I’d love to be able to buy ascended gears, rings, weapons, etc from the TP and much of the griping about the numerous things you are forced into doing that you don’t like would go away.

There would be gripes about cost. And then the reality of how they’re not that effective really based on that cost would factor in.
Laurels and guild commendations and fractals and story achievement awards give you ample access to trinkets. Gear you can craft and change the stats in the Mystic Forge. The general consensus appears to be that it’s not required in any game type except high level fractals for infusions.

General Health.9678:

There would be gripes about cost. And then the reality of how they’re not that effective really based on that cost would factor in.
Laurels and guild commendations and fractals and story achievement awards give you ample access to trinkets. Gear you can craft and change the stats in the Mystic Forge. The general consensus appears to be that it’s not required in any game type except high level fractals for infusions.

Wrong, or wait, can you print screen you changing ascended tinrkets stats to hot ones?

Can you craft trinkets? I’m unaware. GH did talk about gear you can craft and change stats in the Mystic Forge. Maybe that’s what he/she was referring to. Craftable gear.

May not have made that clear enough.
Ascended:
Trinkets use laurels and commendations
Armour – craft the cheapest stat, convert in the Mystic Forge

tl;dr – people don’t seem to think ascended gear is worth getting that upset over as it’s only required for infusions in fractals and is just nice to have everywhere else.

From quickly reading back you want ascended trailblazers trinkets but you only wvw and they don’t appear in the laurel shop. To get them you’d have to raid or do the story and you don’t want to do either. Apologies if I’m summing that up incorrectly.

I see you can craft exotic versions -https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trailblazer's_Jewelry_Recipe_Book

General Health.9678:

May not have made that clear enough.
Ascended:
Trinkets use laurels and commendations
Armour – craft the cheapest stat, convert in the Mystic Forge

tl;dr – people don’t seem to think ascended gear is worth getting that upset over as it’s only required for infusions in fractals and is just nice to have everywhere else.

From quickly reading back you want ascended trailblazers trinkets but you only wvw and they don’t appear in the laurel shop. To get them you’d have to raid or do the story and you don’t want to do either. Apologies if I’m summing that up incorrectly.

I see you can craft exotic versions -https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trailblazer's_Jewelry_Recipe_Book

Indeed, exotic is not good enough for me

+10 at OP
Finaly someone that actualy understand the situation.

I love that <3 Maria <3

Razor.9872:

Perhaps it may be pay-to win now. But when the next expansion releases, HoT content will be free.

Quotation needed, because as far as i know Anet never said that. What was said that HoT will be bundled with the next expac. You will still need to pay for that expac, though.

Razor.9872:

If everything goes according to expectations, upcoming elite-specs will be about equally as strong as the current ones.

If everything went according to expectations, current elite specs would have been equally as strong as the vanilla ones. This didn’t happen, and it’s unlikely to be just a result of Anet’s failure at balancing. And any reason why Anet might have made them intentionally not equal will still hold true when comparing current elites with future ones.

Astralporing.1957:

Razor.9872:

Perhaps it may be pay-to win now. But when the next expansion releases, HoT content will be free.

Quotation needed, because as far as i know Anet never said that. What was said that HoT will be bundled with the next expac. You will still need to pay for that expac, though.

Razor.9872:

If everything goes according to expectations, upcoming elite-specs will be about equally as strong as the current ones.

If everything went according to expectations, current elite specs would have been equally as strong as the vanilla ones. This didn’t happen, and it’s unlikely to be just a result of Anet’s failure at balancing. And any reason why Anet might have made them intentionally not equal will still hold true when comparing current elites with future ones.

You are right about HoT coming with purchase of future expansions and not being in the trial. My mistake.

Although, I do not follow you when you say that “If everything went according to expectations, current elite specs would have been equally as strong as the vanilla ones.” For that was not my expectation at all. I was in the camp that was expecting them to be stronger.

Razor.9872:

Although, I do not follow you when you say that “If everything went according to expectations, current elite specs would have been equally as strong as the vanilla ones.” For that was not my expectation at all. I was in the camp that was expecting them to be stronger.

The expectations were for them to be of equal, but not greater power, because that’s exactly what anet devs claimed before launch. Did you really expect them to either be unable to achieve that, or not want to stick to the announced design goal?

^^ I did, because frankly, if it wasn’t, what appeal would that aspect of HoT have been? The game already lacks diversity for builds … did anyone think that elite spec traits were going to bring that in given how trait system enables that lacking diversity? That would have been a rather naive way to think.

Besides, you don’t actually know how the devs are measuring the power of the elite specs compared to the core … so for all we know, they achieved it, based one whatever measures they are using.

Obtena.7952:

^^ I did, because frankly, if it wasn’t, what appeal would that aspect of HoT have been?

If that’s the reason for Anet intentionally not keeping to their stated design goals (and i agree, that it likely is), then this reason will be equally present for the next expansion, and the future elite specs, don’t you think?

So, if they intentionally made elite specs stronger, in order to encourage people to buy HoT, they are as likely to make next elite specs even stronger, in order to encourage current HoT owners to upgrade. And if we agree to elites being stonger than vanilla now, we also open the way for the future power creep with each new expac.

I don’t think you should assume they kept any stated design goals secret. in fact, I think you assume way to much just to make your arguments.