Guild Wars 2

Weerus.3701:

I’ll just leave this here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-IACGTF3gw

Try doing that as a Engineer or Ranger..

Try doing what, exactly? You can do anything with any build that you can do on another. Maybe a bit slower, maybe different tactics but the game doesn’t nerf you because you went engineer. I ran the last story mission where you take on mordremoth with a pvp engineer and man that guy was insane. There were turrets blowing up all over the place, I found myself just watching him bounce around destroying everything at one point.

Ranger.. you can get various pets that do different things. If you need a tanky pet run with one of those, if you want dps.. well you get the idea.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think you should assume they kept any stated design goals secret.

Then it’s a good thing i didn’t. I said, that they didn’t keep to their stated goals, which was that the elite specs were not meant to be upgrades, but merely open alternate ways to play for the core profs, neither stronger nor weaker.

You said that you expected them to not keep to that goal, because “what appeal would that aspect of HoT have”. Which i tend to agree, post fact – i really should have expected that. But then, consequently, if they have done this once, they will do that again with next expac. Because, if they won’t make future elite specs even better, by the same reasoning “what appeal would that aspect of future expac have”.
The fact that many people seem to agree with that reasoning will only make it more certain to happen next time.

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think you should assume they kept any stated design goals secret.

Then it’s a good thing i didn’t. I said, that they didn’t keep to their stated goals, which was that the elite specs were not meant to be upgrades, but merely open alternate ways to play for the core profs, neither stronger nor weaker.

You assuming you know what that means and how they measure it.

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think you should assume they kept any stated design goals secret.

Then it’s a good thing i didn’t. I said, that they didn’t keep to their stated goals, which was that the elite specs were not meant to be upgrades, but merely open alternate ways to play for the core profs, neither stronger nor weaker.

You assuming you know what that means and how they measure it.

Considering that now elite specs are a flat out upgrade, and are superior to core builds, they must have been using some really unintuitive and nonstandard, custom definition. As in, one that is the exact opposite of the common meaning.

I mean, sure, you can define color #000000 as white and #ffffff as black, but you shouldn’t be surprised then if people will keep telling you that your “white” is really not white at all.

I can understand the point OP is trying to make and I agree, the game was designed to play how you want and when in reality for a portion of the community who wants to build a certain way(trailblazer for example) for wvw that simply is not the case.

Durability runes and other PVE exclusives are perfectly fine, but gating stats that was in an expansion and giving it to one mode and not the other is very short sighted. While obviously not game breaking, it begs the question if this is the method how ANet will handle the next expansion.

I would question how important having those actual stats on your jewellery is to wvw.

The meta for most pve is berserker gear with scholar runes and fire/air/+damage sigils. I’m doing absolutely fine without those.

General Health.9678:

I would question how important having those actual stats on your jewellery is to wvw.

The meta for most pve is berserker gear with scholar runes and fire/air/+damage sigils. I’m doing absolutely fine without those.

PvE is not WvW. Some classes can make do with glassy builds in there, but when your enemies can actually behave in an intelligent and unpredictable ways, sustain and damage mitigation start being important. Especially if you’re a roamer, instead of always sticking to a big zerg.

That’s a very narrow set of people that these trinkets would actually be important for then and so not the big deal that the OP makes it out to be?

And that they will be available with LS3.

General Health.9678:

That’s a very narrow set of people that these trinkets would actually be important for then and so not the big deal that the OP makes it out to be?

My opinion too. “Recruit another player” is almost always a better solution in WvW than trying to min-max your gear, unless the map is full, in which case “divide your players more intelligently” becomes the better solution.

If you’re dead-set on roaming then getting the perfect stat allocation is going to make some difference, and it may even win or lose a few close fights… but you know… you’re playing WvW. You’re used to things not being fair.

Which doesn’t mean having this stuff available through playing WvW would be a bad thing – it wouldn’t, and I’d be fine with ArenaNet taking the time to do that. I just think the topic title is stretching the truth like it’s mozzarella cheese.

General Health.9678:

That’s a very narrow set of people that these trinkets would actually be important for then and so not the big deal that the OP makes it out to be?

Well, those stats OP is talking about (trailblazers), yeah. Not a big deal for PvE players. Those are not the only ones locked currently behind Raids however – Vipers (that are the best PvE condi stat gear at the moment, the condi equivalent of Berserkers) are locked that way too, remember?
And while i agree that currently WvW population is very small, that’s not an argument, unless you intend to cancel that gamemode altogether. At the moment Anet does not seem to be ready to do just that.

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think you should assume they kept any stated design goals secret.

Then it’s a good thing i didn’t. I said, that they didn’t keep to their stated goals, which was that the elite specs were not meant to be upgrades, but merely open alternate ways to play for the core profs, neither stronger nor weaker.

You assuming you know what that means and how they measure it.

Considering that now elite specs are a flat out upgrade, and are superior to core builds, they must have been using some really unintuitive and nonstandard, custom definition. As in, one that is the exact opposite of the common meaning.

Maybe … but that just points to the fact that what is relevant isn’t what you think, or me or anybody … but Anet of course.

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

Astralporing.1957:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t think you should assume they kept any stated design goals secret.

Then it’s a good thing i didn’t. I said, that they didn’t keep to their stated goals, which was that the elite specs were not meant to be upgrades, but merely open alternate ways to play for the core profs, neither stronger nor weaker.

You assuming you know what that means and how they measure it.

Considering that now elite specs are a flat out upgrade, and are superior to core builds, they must have been using some really unintuitive and nonstandard, custom definition. As in, one that is the exact opposite of the common meaning.

Maybe … but that just points to the fact that what is relevant isn’t what you think, or me or anybody … but Anet of course.

The very existence of this thread tells us that you’re wrong on this point.

(also, you keep switching goalposts so fast i’m not even sure what are you arguing for at the moment. Because it’s certainly not what you were arguing when we started this side discussion)

They very existence of this thread just shows there are more than a few people that are assuming they know how Anet thinks and evaluates the game when they don’t, leading those people to conclude that Anet did something wrong or did something sinister, like most other threads of the same nature.

The whole idea that you can even win PVE is preposterous … in a COOPERATIVE PVE environment to begin with. As for the whole grind nonsense, that argument has been had dozens of times by now. If the ‘grind’ in this game is so offensive to people, they should just quit; it’s not going away.

Astralporing.1957:

Those are not the only ones locked currently behind Raids however – Vipers (that are the best PvE condi stat gear at the moment, the condi equivalent of Berserkers) are locked that way too, remember?

I thought you could get them from the story as achievements.
So in both cases (trailblazers and vipers) there was a way to get them without raiding.
Might be wrong, neither are things I’ve cared to chase as I PvE berserker on everything but I thought that was the case.

This isn’t to deny there’s an issue. Both are locked out of being wvw drops and if that’s all you do then you can’t have those things. At the same time.. neither does anyone else in wvw if everyone feels the same. So you’re all at least in the same boat.

Actually, I like doing PvE almost as much as WvW. And I don’t even mind the grind, I don’t care for fat rewards; but I have my own annoyances with specific content being locked away for me. This kind of kitten-you attitude totally misses my wallet. You could argue that everyone complaining here represents our own minority, each fighting for our lost causes. But the fact is, this game now has something to kitten off everyone, as if deliberately. It became very unwelcoming, compared to before HoT (more accurately, before Jun 2015).

This is not for you, “white knights”, to prove us “wrong”. We do appreciate your time and effort, no doubt. Hell, if noble Sir Vayne was selling me something above, I would have bought it twice already. But seeing as how it’s HoT we are talking about, and how ANet don’t even bother to say kitten on this matter (or any other), I don’t think you guys are being fair to show us the door on their behalf. We are not your customers to lose.

LoL NooBs.5076:

Actually, I like doing PvE almost as much as WvW. And I don’t even mind the grind, I don’t care for fat rewards; but I have my own annoyances with specific content being locked away for me. This kind of kitten-you attitude totally misses my wallet. You could argue that everyone complaining here represents our own minority, each fighting for our lost causes. But the fact is, this game now has something to kitten off everyone, as if deliberately. It became very unwelcoming, compared to before HoT (more accurately, before Jun 2015).

This is not for you, “white knights”, to prove us “wrong”. We do appreciate your time and effort, no doubt. Hell, if noble Sir Vayne was selling me something above, I would have bought it twice already. But seeing as how it’s HoT we are talking about, and how ANet don’t even bother to say kitten on this matter (or any other), I don’t think you guys are being fair to show us the door on their behalf. We are not your customers to lose.

Elaborate on “this game now has something to kitten off everyone, as if deliberately” in comparison to pre-Jun2015, please.

General Health.9678:

Astralporing.1957:

Those are not the only ones locked currently behind Raids however – Vipers (that are the best PvE condi stat gear at the moment, the condi equivalent of Berserkers) are locked that way too, remember?

I thought you could get them from the story as achievements.

Only the amulet, and it’s not repeatable (you get a selectable stat amulet from meta achievement for the last personal HoT story, but you can’t rebuy/reacquire it later on). Backpack, earrings and rings are raid only.

General Health.9678:

This isn’t to deny there’s an issue. Both are locked out of being wvw drops and if that’s all you do then you can’t have those things. At the same time.. neither does anyone else in wvw if everyone feels the same. So you’re all at least in the same boat.

The point is, i believe, that those who do raid (a non WvW activity) have advantage in WvW over those that don’t.

Again I’d ask how much of an issue it is tho. There may be some people in wvw who have some stats you don’t have. You may or may not meet them whilst roaming. You may or may not be good enough to beat them and / or your class may or may not be able to beat them. If you had those sigils or if they had those sigils would it really make that much difference?

If the answer is omg yes it would.. then why don’t you raid to get them?
I get that maybe they shouldn’t be locked behind a raid but being really pragmatic, they are.. can’t you just raid and get them?

I kinda feel that raids and wvw are seperate game types and if so.. who are those raiders who are also doing some roaming in wvw..

General Health.9678:

I get that maybe they shouldn’t be locked behind a raid but being really pragmatic, they are.. can’t you just raid and get them?

No. Not really. the reasons are a multitude, and have been brought up in many threads already, so i won’t be bothering to repeat them. Suffice it to say that not everyone can raid, of those that can not all will be succesful, and of those that potentially could raid succesfully some would find that experience so unpleasant that they’d rather avoid it completely. Honestly, there are people around that have literally quit games and came to gw2 to avoid raiding.

General Health.9678:

I kinda feel that raids and wvw are seperate game types and if so.. who are those raiders who are also doing some roaming in wvw..

As always, even if the different game types are aimed at different groups of people, there will be some overlap. And even if it isn’t, some guilds may have raiding players in them willing to carry their WvW friends.

TL/DR: dedicated WvW guilds will do worse than mixed ones. Not only due to the accessibility to HoT stats, but also due to the cost of WvW guild upgrades.
To be best at WvW, you need to play WvW less.

No idea what is being lumped as a HoT recipe but you can always hope that it’s the exotic trinkets.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

In the next release, a 6th pip is being added to the provision master ability line that allows you to buy HoT recipes, sigils, and runes from the heroics notary vendor.