Guardian Traits Lackluster

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Mervil.7461

Mervil.7461

So, finished watching all 4.5 hours of livestream. Good stuff! The guardian changes really made me excited. But then I continued watching and saw what other professions were getting. In particular, I’m watching as ranger is (planned) to get guaranteed crit opening strike, with added 25% dmg, that can renew with every signet use, and/or every time ranger gains fury, and/or every pet swap. Seems pretty powerful.

Then you look back at guardian, and there are a lot of traits that proc on aegis. Aegis is awesome, but does it really proc that often? Every 40 seconds for the passive virtue (30 if you equip the trait). And what happens when Aegis ends? Well, with the right traits, you can gain 3 (and a quarter!) whole seconds of retaliation. Aegis does damage on end—which apparently can do upwards of a thousand damage, but only if it crits—every 40 seconds without other sources of aegis. You can get a good heal if aegis blocks (668), but when is aegis going to block an attack? At the beginning of the battle, right when you don’t need healing. Lastly, you can bring the trait that allows you to do more damage while under the effects of aegis. That would be fantastic if aegis was maintainable. But unfortunately, its not. Just takes 1 simple hit to remove. A ranger can take that away with a single longbow shot as you’re running in with your greatsword.

And I know that the numbers aren’t final yet, but I keep seeing “cause burning for 1 second”. Can’t we get a little more love with our burning than 1 second? How about 1 and a quarter! If we bring the trait “cause more damage against burning foes”, or “chance of crit against burning foes is increased” we get to do that for 1 second at a time? Passive Virtue of justice also only causes 1 second of burning. Lets get some pumped up burning times! I mean, its really only the good condition that guardians can do.

The hosts of the livestream made frequent comments about how grandmaster traits need to be great; even change the way the profession plays. Some of those grandmaster traits are great. However, the “shattered aegis” trait—deal damage when aegis ends—just isn’t game-breaking or profession defining. In fact, this should just be a built in profession mechanic, or at least a minor trait. Now, if you added the functionality of reduce the recharge of Virtue of Courage in half, now THATS a grandmaster trait.

I like where these traits are going, but I think there’s room for a little more improvement and burning love.

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: azizul.8469

azizul.8469

the upcoming trait system is less flexible. currently you can slot the adept trait into the master slot if you want, but in the future you will not be able to do that..

Cutie Phantasmer/Farinas [HAX] – CD Casual
Archeage = Farmville with PK

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

THink about the potential. Shattered Aegis isn’t just you, it’s any aegis you bestow. Hit your retreat, charge in with a team, everyone procs it which will be 500-1k with low power builds, high power builds it’ll be MUCH higher. THe potential even low power builds is 5k on 5 targets, high power, 10k-15k isn’t out of the realm of reasonable to expect. Yeah… not so weak now is it?

Not saying it’s a great trait, harnessing the potential is unlikely, but just saying.

Guardian traits look anything but weak to me. Not really a big PVPer, but PVE my god guardian looks amazing.

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Strill.2591

Strill.2591

So, finished watching all 4.5 hours of livestream. Good stuff! The guardian changes really made me excited. But then I continued watching and saw what other professions were getting. In particular, I’m watching as ranger is (planned) to get guaranteed crit opening strike, with added 25% dmg, that can renew with every signet use, and/or every time ranger gains fury, and/or every pet swap. Seems pretty powerful.

You realize that a Zerker guardian can now easily reach 100% crit rate right?

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Posted by: Strill.2591

Strill.2591

THink about the potential. Shattered Aegis isn’t just you, it’s any aegis you bestow. Hit your retreat, charge in with a team, everyone procs it which will be 500-1k with low power builds, high power builds it’ll be MUCH higher. THe potential even low power builds is 5k on 5 targets, high power, 10k-15k isn’t out of the realm of reasonable to expect. Yeah… not so weak now is it?

Not saying it’s a great trait, harnessing the potential is unlikely, but just saying.

Guardian traits look anything but weak to me. Not really a big PVPer, but PVE my god guardian looks amazing.

In PVP, you won’t have your whole group there to combo it. In PVE, your retreat is not guaranteed to pop, and even if it does, it’s not going to make much difference to your party’s overall DPS.

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: FrozenChinchilla.5249

FrozenChinchilla.5249

Guardian is a support class and they’re still letting you get 100% crit chance for free.

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Mervil.7461

Mervil.7461

How does guardian get free 100% crit chance? Also, how does that make the proc on aegis removal traits any better? It still only triggers every 40 seconds (30 with the trait), unless you bring retreat. With retreat, you can get aegis every 40 seconds, 32 with the reduced recharge on shouts trait. And if you activate Virtue of Courage, that’s a 75 second cool down.
Another concern I have… where did the trait “wrathful spirits” go, the one that increases spirit weapon damage by 50%? Was that made baseline?

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Posted by: Ranatoa.4869

Ranatoa.4869

It is definitely not free, you have to devote all your armor/trinkets/weapons to zerker in order to reach 60% crit chance which will be a much riskier investment considering we won’the be getting the toughness/vitality/healing power from traits that many guardian builds have now.

Then to qualify for the extra 40% crit chance (which I assume is the “free” part you are referring to)

25% is only available vs burning opponents (not generally an issue in PvE or WvW)

15% only applies to mace, scepter, and sword skills. It does not apply to off-hand or two-handed weapons

So yeah if you definition of “free” is building specifically for it then we do get “free” 100% crit chance

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Mervil.7461

Mervil.7461

OOOH! I had an idea. You want a grandmaster aegis trait that is profession defining, that has the potential to change the way a guardian plays? Combine the current aegis traits:
Deal more damage while under the effects of aegis. When an aegis you applied ends, it heals the affected ally and does damage to nearby foes. Virtue of Courage’s recharge rate is reduced by 50%.
At first glance, this seems a bit OP. However, when you consider how seldom aegis actually occurs, this seems just right.

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Jaxom.7310

Jaxom.7310

OOOH! I had an idea. You want a grandmaster aegis trait that is profession defining, that has the potential to change the way a guardian plays? Combine the current aegis traits:
Deal more damage while under the effects of aegis. When an aegis you applied ends, it heals the affected ally and does damage to nearby foes. Virtue of Courage’s recharge rate is reduced by 50%.
At first glance, this seems a bit OP. However, when you consider how seldom aegis actually occurs, this seems just right.

but then they’d have to make more adept and master traits and work is hard

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Posted by: Musha.4025

Musha.4025

What about the trait for spirit weapons to last longer? Also, every guardian weapon is getting a trait to reduce recharge of that weapon’s skills by 20% except for scepter.

What if Shattered Aegis, in addition to damaging foes, also burns foes for some additional damage? That sounds a bit more grandmastery to me.

Then Pure of Heart can be combined with Unscathed Contender to synergize more with dodging and increased endurance regen. Do more damage while you have aegis, but when it is removed, you heal.
This opens up room for another major adept trait under Virtues.

Aegan – Human Ranger (80)
Leader of the Guardians of Light (GoL)

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Posted by: FrozenChinchilla.5249

FrozenChinchilla.5249

It is definitely not free, you have to devote all your armor/trinkets/weapons to zerker in order to reach 60% crit chance which will be a much riskier investment considering we won’the be getting the toughness/vitality/healing power from traits that many guardian builds have now.

Then to qualify for the extra 40% crit chance (which I assume is the “free” part you are referring to)

25% is only available vs burning opponents (not generally an issue in PvE or WvW)

15% only applies to mace, scepter, and sword skills. It does not apply to off-hand or two-handed weapons

So yeah if you definition of “free” is building specifically for it then we do get “free” 100% crit chance

Not sure what you’re talking about.
Any item set with precision can get you 100% easy.
Knight’s for instance… gets you over 40%
20% Fury is easy with the new traits.
25% against burning targets
15% with a 1 hand weapon

Free 100% by picking this trait line.

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Mervil.7461

Mervil.7461

Ok. Enough about the guardian critical chance stuff. That’s derailing the topic. The point of the post is not how much a guardian can critical and what the process is to get there. The point is that when you compare the traits of guardian to that of another profession (like ranger), guardian traits appear weak. So many traits revolve around a boon that is only present for a brief moment, and only recurs once, at most, twice during a battle. I don’t see myself taking a trait that boosts damage during a fight, but only for 2 seconds. Or heals me when my health is already at max. Whats the point?
Please reconsider these traits.

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Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

Zeal and Honor might (imo) be two of the strongest lines they showed.

Yeah the aegis talents are iffy, the symbols are so good I’m worried they’ll get nerfed.

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Posted by: Ragnar the Rock.3174

Ragnar the Rock.3174

Some of the guardian traits they showed were quite nice.

Others were well….. uninspiring and sad comes to mind given what was shown over all.

Allot of ideas have been posted in the guardian thread, hopefully they take a look at them.

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Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

somebody link this new trait line guardians will have

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Musha.4025

Musha.4025

There’s not a new trait line (at least not until trait lines are replaced by specializations and elite specializations go live). We are discussing all the trait changes that were revealed here:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/ready-up-core-specializations-summary/

Aegan – Human Ranger (80)
Leader of the Guardians of Light (GoL)

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Posted by: Stars.2179

Stars.2179

That symbolic avenger seems op, BUT some of the symbols the guardian place is pulsing which means it will interfere with ele’s fire field maybe they should clarify the mechanic of multiple fields. I don’t think it’s first in first out (the data we experimented on is pretty inconsistent). Or the meta might change to just having the warrior solo might stacking and forget about fire field hehehe.

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

That symbolic avenger seems op, BUT some of the symbols the guardian place is pulsing which means it will interfere with ele’s fire field maybe they should clarify the mechanic of multiple fields. I don’t think it’s first in first out (the data we experimented on is pretty inconsistent). Or the meta might change to just having the warrior solo might stacking and forget about fire field hehehe.

The first one placed is how it’s SUPPOSED to work, however often times it doesn’t.

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Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

That symbolic avenger seems op, BUT some of the symbols the guardian place is pulsing which means it will interfere with ele’s fire field maybe they should clarify the mechanic of multiple fields. I don’t think it’s first in first out (the data we experimented on is pretty inconsistent). Or the meta might change to just having the warrior solo might stacking and forget about fire field hehehe.

This is kind of why we’re seeing more PSEA again, doesn’t care about field interactions.

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Posted by: Ranatoa.4869

Ranatoa.4869

That symbolic avenger seems op, BUT some of the symbols the guardian place is pulsing which means it will interfere with ele’s fire field maybe they should clarify the mechanic of multiple fields. I don’t think it’s first in first out (the data we experimented on is pretty inconsistent). Or the meta might change to just having the warrior solo might stacking and forget about fire field hehehe.

It did seem OP to me at first, but at the same time that damage bonus is dependent on the opponent being in your symbols which are fairly easy to avoid.

Overall I think we saw some good changes. It didn’t seem as dramatic as some of the other classes, but guardians are in a pretty solid place already so I don’t think the needed the sweeping changes some other classes saw

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

That symbolic avenger seems op, BUT some of the symbols the guardian place is pulsing which means it will interfere with ele’s fire field maybe they should clarify the mechanic of multiple fields. I don’t think it’s first in first out (the data we experimented on is pretty inconsistent). Or the meta might change to just having the warrior solo might stacking and forget about fire field hehehe.

This is kind of why we’re seeing more PSEA again, doesn’t care about field interactions.

If you’re talking about PVE stuff for dungeons and wht not, it’s also because Staff Ele is so powerful so it’s nice to take the might pressure off of them, plus PS is easier and often more consistent.

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

That symbolic avenger seems op, BUT some of the symbols the guardian place is pulsing which means it will interfere with ele’s fire field maybe they should clarify the mechanic of multiple fields. I don’t think it’s first in first out (the data we experimented on is pretty inconsistent). Or the meta might change to just having the warrior solo might stacking and forget about fire field hehehe.

This is kind of why we’re seeing more PSEA again, doesn’t care about field interactions.

If you’re talking about PVE stuff for dungeons and wht not, it’s also because Staff Ele is so powerful so it’s nice to take the might pressure off of them, plus PS is easier and often more consistent.

It’s changed substantially and fairly recently too, though.

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

That symbolic avenger seems op, BUT some of the symbols the guardian place is pulsing which means it will interfere with ele’s fire field maybe they should clarify the mechanic of multiple fields. I don’t think it’s first in first out (the data we experimented on is pretty inconsistent). Or the meta might change to just having the warrior solo might stacking and forget about fire field hehehe.

This is kind of why we’re seeing more PSEA again, doesn’t care about field interactions.

If you’re talking about PVE stuff for dungeons and wht not, it’s also because Staff Ele is so powerful so it’s nice to take the might pressure off of them, plus PS is easier and often more consistent.

It’s changed substantially and fairly recently too, though.

Ehh, I mean it’s still pretty 50/50 on it’s use, depends on what the people like, but yes it’s seen a steady rise in use since it’s inception. Initially there was a backlash of it not being worthwhile, as warrior has gotten nerfed people have shifted their views seeing them not as a DPS profession but simply as a banner bot.

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Posted by: Windsagio.1340

Windsagio.1340

pay me no mind, preferred build shifts are always very interesting to me

Guardian Traits Lackluster

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

pay me no mind, preferred build shifts are always very interesting to me

Same here, the Theory in MMOs is often more enjoyable than playing for me (once things get stale)

PS was an interesting thing in itself. Very slow rise to use, but it was great from the start, especially paired with a Hammer Guard, that was the core of the composition of builds my old team and I used which made things silly easy (PS war/Hammer Guard/Staff Ele + 2 more).